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Transcript: The ReidOut, January 7, 2021

Guests: Theortis "Butch" Jones, Cory Booker, Stuart Stevens, Brittany Packnett Cunningham, Alicia Garza, Mary Trump, Will Sommer


Calls are growing tonight for Donald Trump to be immediately removed from office in the wake of the unprecedented attack that he incited against the country. Interview with Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. Mary Trump on how much damage her uncle is capable of doing on his way out the White House doors.


JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Calls are growing tonight for Donald Trump to be immediately removed from office in the wake of the unprecedented attack that he incited against our country. Today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi urged Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment threatening to impeach Trump for a second time if he does not.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I join the Senate Democrat leader in calling on the vice president to remove this president by immediately invoking the 25th Amendment. If the vice president or cabinet do not act, the Congress may be prepared to move forward with impeachment. That is the overwhelming sentiment of my caucus.


REID: Joining that call is Trump's former chief of staff, John Kelly, who said that if he were still there, he would vote to remove him.

Meanwhile, multiple administration officials are heading for the exit, including Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao whose husband is now Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. The hostile takeover of the U.S. Capitol yesterday by a domestic terrorist mob was not only a massive failure on the part of several police agencies, it was a full-scale breach of national security.

Make no mistake: the whole world was watching. Those countries that we have been lecturing about democracy like Russia and China. They are laughing at us and mocking hypocrisy. Thanks to Trump.

Here's a look at the chaos yesterday through the lens of an ITV reporter who was imbedded with the insurrectionist.


REPORTER: This is exactly what was feared, but in no way is this a surprise. It has been fueled by the president rhetoric.

REPORTER: We follow the aggrieved and infuriated Trump supporters as they storm the building. And for a few moments they felt they won the precious victory.


REID: Trump was actively promoting this attempted coup for weeks, encouraging his most deranged supporters to take to the streets to, quote, stop the steal, promising as early as December 19th that, quote, it's going to be wild. Trump literally gave them marching orders from the White House grounds just minutes before they laid siege to the seat of American government.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't like fight, you're not going to have a country anymore.


REID: He unleashed that horde of MAGA fanatics on the U.S. Capitol where they faced little resistance from police. There's video that show officers moving the barricades, to allow the rioters onto the premise. In moments ago, a spokesperson for the department said the chief of the Capitol Police would resign, effective January 16. And, frankly, not a moment too soon, as we are two weeks away from an inauguration that will pose an even more complex security challenge, and someone up to the task needs to be on the job.

In a normal world, an American president would move quickly to suppress any insurrection against the United States government. But Trump refused to mobilize the National Guard. So, Vice President Mike Pence had to do it.

Trump's thugs didn't just march on the U.S. Capitol but also on statehouses across the country. In other words, this was a coordinated attack on multiple locations. Worse yet, we have known that pro-Trump extremists, groups like the Proud Boys and QAnon have been organizing on social media. "The Washington Post" reported Friday that anonymous users have posted tips and strategy for smuggling firearms into D.C., as President-elect Joe Biden said today, we could have seen this coming. And he laid the blame squarely at Trumps feet.


JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: The past four years, we have had a president who made his contempt for the democracy, our Constitution, the rule of law, clear. In everything he has done. He unleashed an all-out assault on our institutions of democracy from the outset. And yesterday was what the culmination of that unrelenting attack.


REID: In a moment, I'll be joined by Senator Cory Booker.

But joining me now is Theortis "Butch" Jones, a retired Capitol Hill police officer. And Malcolm Nance, MSNBC counterterrorism and intelligence analyst.

I want to thank both of you for being here.

And I'm going to start with you, first, Officer Jones. You spent 37 years in the Capitol Police Department. Your daughter tweeted at me today. I was connected with you, and I spoke with you earlier.

And my question to you now is the same what I had then. As a veteran Capitol police officer, when you saw what happened yesterday, in your view, what went wrong?

THEORTIS "BUTCH" JONES, RETIRED CAPITOL HILL POLICE OFFICER: I was appalled by what I saw yesterday. There was no reinforcement. Normally in a situation like that, that magnitude would have Park Police, Metropolitan Police and Capitol Police joined together. I think if that was a black organization, they would never have got to the steps.

REID: You said that earlier today when I spoke with you. You said that normally, if there's a big march, you talk about a Farrakhan march, four people were coming with Minister Louis Farrakhan for the Nation of Islam, and there were like phalanxes of people set up, there were meetings talking about what to do.

In this case, the Capitol police according to reporting from "The Associated Press", they rejected offers of federal help, this is what the "A.P." writes. Three days before the pro-President Trump riot at the Capitol, the Pentagon asked the U.S. Capitol Police if it needed National Guard manpower. And as the mob descended on the building Wednesday, Justice Department leaders reached out to offer up FBI agents. The police turned them down both times, according to a defense official and two people familiar with the matter.

Would that have been normal? You said over the time you were a member of the department, there were marches and there were things planned, Neo-Nazis coming. Is it normal to turn down help from the federal government?

JONES: Number one, no, it's not normal to turn down help. Normally, the chief will make a recommendation then you go to the police board, the police board is made up with the sergeant of arm at the House, sergeant of arm at the Senate. And architect of the Capitol.

Something went wrong because normally, we would have the help they wouldn't have crossed the line or the steps of the capitol.

REID: And, Malcolm, let me bring you in here, because you had the threats from Donald Trump. On December 19th, he tweeted it's going to be wild. Anybody who has Twitter and certainly everybody who has Parler knew this was being planned. Here you have -- let's listen to the people inciting on that day. This is Donald Trump Jr., Rudy Giuliani and Congressman Mo Brooks who's now trying to say it was Antifa, here they are now riling up the crowd before it started.


REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass. Are you willing to do what it takes to fight for America?

DON TRUMP JR., BUSINESSMAN: This is Donald Trump's Republican Party!

CROWD: Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!



REID: And there was Donald Trump Jr. who was going on stage before the rally. Mike Meadows was there, Rudy Giuliani was there, that trial by combat Rudy Giuliani was saying.

As you look at this, Malcolm, and it's also what's happening in other capitols around the country, you alerted me to that, did you see this as a coordinated essentially domestic terrorist attack?

MALCOLM NANCE, FORMER NAVAL INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: Well, we have to be careful about the use of the word terrorist in this particular instance. But I did see a coordinated operation which let me tell you something, I have been monitoring this for months. I got up at 3:30 every morning, and we start going through the Parler chats, the Telegram feeds, the video links they are putting out amongst each other, amongst all sorts of forums, where they discuss what they're rage of the day is about.

And leading into the election, they were starting to make noise like they were going to have one of two options, whether Donald Trump won, they would become the paramilitaries of the Trump campaign, and if Donald Trump lost, that it was the start of an insurgency that would lead to the second American civil war.

So, as we saw Donald Trump ignore the results of the election, they started out confused, then they became more concentrated in their anger. They waited for December 14. Then they started getting code words and phrases from Donald Trump, and all they were looking for was the right word from him. And in that rally, we got, we were monitoring all of their live feeds from right wing extremists who were putting it out on Facebook and Reddit, and we were watching the Trump campaign itself.

Their theme for the day was fight for Trump. That rallying call you saw in there. There was a live feed from Donald Trump Jr. in the tent where they kept saying, fight, fight, we're going to fight, fight for Trump. That is what he sent them out to the Capitol with.

Those people could have carried out the largest hostage barricade in American history if they had gone into the building and not just flowed through as a crowd, my impression was several of those members could have in fact been a capture and kill team that was operating within that crowd. People were there with weapons, and zip ties. Police flex cuffs.

And I think that they fully intend to take Democratic members quite possibly either harass them, beat them, we don't know, because the Capitol Police were supposed to prevent that. They could have captured and executed a representative member of the government and occupy that building if not set it on fire.

That is -- you know, the only thing about this, Joy, is -- ISIS is jealous that they didn't think of it first. Just getting a bunch of people and walking up to the building.

REID: You know, and to go back to you, Officer Jones, the Capitol Police has 2,300 active duty members. They have a budget of $460 million, from our great reporters here at NBC. They have the manpower if they want to stop it.

In your view, do you get the sense perhaps the leadership level they didn't want to stop it?

JONES: I think the leadership left it as a regular workday. That's the way it appeared on TV yesterday. They there was a regular workday. They didn't call extra help.

Normally, you know exactly all days are cancelled. And like I say you have back up. We didn't see horses. We didn't see dogs. We didn't see anyone.

Normally, you have outer perimeter. You didn't have that. So, to me that was Black Lives Matter, they would have stopped them before they got on the grounds. They wouldn't have got that far.

REID: And, Malcolm, I'll leave you with the same question. If somebody were going to prepare for a wild rally of MAGA supporters and already saying online they were going to bring guns into the Capitol, it looks to me there was zero preparation for that. What you make of the seemingly laying down in advance?

NANCE: Well, the Capitol Police, it's an utter failure. This isn't normal. I went through SWAT officer school with the Capitol Hill police officers that create their containment and emergency response teams that are there. They saw this rally of 40,000 to 50,000 people as almost like a high school group from Iowa coming to visit the place. There was fighting on the western side of the Capitol, in the western steps. But what happened on the east side was almost like a picnic. They let them up on the steps and this force used mass to come through and some officers obviously let them come up there.

What they didn't do is they didn't take the breach of this building as a national security crisis, which should have had multiple agencies. If it wasn't for the Secret Service calling in the FBI strike teams, Mike Pence and Kamala Harris might not have gotten out safely as they did.

REID: Yes, it's amazing to look at the images of the people defiling the Capitol and the people who sworn to defend the Capitol are either missing or passive. I have never seen anything like it.

But Theortis "Butch" Jones, thank you so much for being here. Great to meet you and we'll have you back.

Malcolm Nance, my friend, thank you very much for your help and expertise and understanding this.

Thank you both.

And joining me now, Senator Booker of New Jersey.

And, Senator, I want to ask you the same question. You know, the police are sworn to defend you, to defend your life and protect your safety. When you saw what essentially looked like in advance they decided, as Malcolm said, to treat it as if it was a big picnic that was coming, or a school high school group, and to essentially make no preparation and accept no federal help.

I know the police chief has resigned. But what do you make of that?

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ) (via telephone): Well, there was a clear lack of preparedness, and dangerously so. I have gotten to know a lot of the rank-and-file officers over the seven years I've been in the Senate and then private conversation with them. They felt like they were hung out there, and unprepared and put themselves -- they themselves were put into danger.

So, this is unfortunate. It is also gallingly ironic and deeply, tragically -- tragic and hypocrisy to see how they prepare for other types of protests on the Capitol grounds, clearly and as has been said, and pointed out, and rightfully so. The way we have seen Black Lives Matter protesters around the country being treated is starkly, starkly different in the way that the protesters yesterday were treated.

And our president his language -- this didn't happen in a vacuum. We know he was one of the inciting forces. But he wasn't just inciting yesterday. This is a president who is a violent language has been a consistent part of the four years, as well as in his days running for this office. He was a man that talked about how we should be treating -- his supporters should be treating people -- that he paid for the bills, their legal bills, if they punch them. He was the man that told right wing groups like Proud Boys to stand back and stand by.

His language has been leading to this moment, and it is not over, and anyone who thinks those of us who have been calling this out for years now, warning about what would happen and still believe we were overstating the fact, and they were just bystanders to this president, that to me shows that they contributed to this tragic present that we're here by allowing this president to continue to do these things without taking necessary measures to stop him.

REID: These people were flying the treason flag. There are some who had American flags. And they had Trump flags. They also had the treasonous Confederate flag flying inside of our Capitol.

You can see them, they're owning the building. Not only the Capitol Police but the Metropolitan Police, they belatedly arrive, and Virginia and Maryland police, nobody was able to stop them.

We also know that Donald Trump refused to call out the National Guard, that the Capitol Police rejected federal assistance. It's to the point where even William Barr no less has said orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable. The president's conduct yesterday was a betrayal of his office and supporters.

But I want to get your comment from you on the other betrayers. The other members of the United States, your colleagues, Republican colleagues, Josh Hawley and Rick Scott and Ted Cruz, who even after this made mayhem, still tried to strip essentially black voters, but 80 million voters overall of their vote after this.

Do you think they should be expelled?

BOOKER: Well, these things are connected to what you said, about the symbols of white supremacy and signs of white supremacy, to have the Confederate flag inches from where I sit. I sit by the door, and outside the door. From the pictures it seems that was where they were waving the Confederate flag.

And when you listen to the arguments that they made, these are men that I work with, I partnered on bills with, I listen very carefully, hoping that Ted Cruz would say something to me and the public, someway justify it, but to have him use the Hayes/Tilden compromise -- which is such an historical affront with the Confederate flag waved on the floor behind where I sit, and him dredging up a history of compromise that put in place the destruction of the reconstruction, allowing the unleashing of the greatest period of domestic terrorism.

The connection for me was painful, to see the terrorism going on today with the symbols and sign of white supremacy, and the justification for allowing the delusion to persist when it is proven a fraud time and time again this election was somehow stolen. For them to fan the flames of conspiracy theories and lies, and then use it as justification, that we should be like those who allow the Hayes/Tilden compromise, it was just galling to me, so galling.

REID: Yes. Yes. Well, I think it also -- he stated the point, right? I think he stated what it is that he really believes, and that Hayes/Tilden compromise I think represents clearly his believes. That's what he said.

Senator Cory Booker, thank you so much for making time to be with us tonight. I really appreciate you.

BOOKER: Thank you.

REID: Coming up next on THE REID -- cheers. Thank you very much.

Coming up next on THE REIDOUT, Republicans in chaos, losing their Senate majority at the moment the Capitol was being over run by Trumps thugs.

Plus, remember when Trump said when the looting starts, the shooting starts? Now, imagine if yesterday's capitol marauders had been black. How many would be dead or behind bars?

THE REIDOUT continues after this.



REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): All indications are that the president has become unmoored not just from his duty, or even his oath, but from reality itself.

It is for this reason that I call for the vice president and members of the Cabinet to ensure the next few weeks are safe for the American people, and that we have a sane captain of the ship.


REID: Illinois Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger became the first Republican in Congress to call for invoking the 25th Amendment.

I'm joined now by Tiffany Cross, host of "THE CROSS CONNECTION" here on MSNBC, and Stuart Stevens, senior adviser for The Lincoln Project and chief strategist for Mitt Romney's 2012 campaign.

And I have to go to you first on this, Stuart, because while we were doing the previous segment and talking about the invasion of our Capitol by a marauding band of insurrectionists, a mob, Donald Trump apparently was cutting a little video that just was released, in which he is -- it appears that he has been handed a script that sounds like a normal presidential script, in which he's accepting the results of the election and denouncing the violence belatedly.

The reports say, from Maggie Haberman and others, that he was enjoying watching the violence. And he also invoked the violence.

What do you make of this little turn?

STUART STEVENS, THE LINCOLN PROJECT: Oh, look, this is a guy trying to save himself from getting impeached.

I hope it doesn't work. If you can't impeach a president for calling for American terrorists to attack the Capitol, which they did more successfully than the 9/11 terrorists, what is impeachable?

Look, Donald Trump's a dangerous guy. You have got to get him out of the White House. I mean, someone who can't even tweet shouldn't be having a nuclear code.


REID: It's a good point. It's a fair point, Tiffany.

I mean, you have got a lot of climb-downs happening. You have Marco Rubio trying to say, some misled you, not me, Marco Rubio, but somebody did. Adam Kinzinger, who wouldn't vote for impeachment, saying, yes, 25th Amendment him. John Kelly saying, yes, 25th Amendment him.

A lot of people running backwards right now, and sort of cycling backwards.

What do you make of all of these turnarounds? And what, in your view, should be the consequences of what we saw yesterday?

TIFFANY CROSS, HOST, "THE CROSS CONNECTION": Joy, I'm fresh out of hero cakes for these people who at the 11th hour are trying to incite this performative rejection of Trump policies.

Adam Kinzinger has voted with Trump 91 percent of his time in office. He knew full well who Trump was in 2016. He opted to vote for him. Adam Kinzinger again called -- saying that people calling racism systemic in law enforcement was inflammatory.

I am not here for people at this point to then decide, oh, it's not cool to like him anymore? Then let me part ways. If this is the point where you break faith, not years ago, when he had the Russians in the Oval, not on the campaign trail, when he kicked off his campaign with racist rhetoric, now, at this point, when you feel like there might be some sort of political future in it for you, you are no hero.

Elaine Chao is no hero. Mitt Romney is no hero. Certainly, John Kelly is no hero. Mick Mulvaney is no hero. And I hope people have long memories, because what -- we need to have an honest discussion in this country about how we got here.

And, quite frankly, it precedes Donald Trump. And I know there have been a lot of clever people and a lot of never-Trumpers to come out. But, quite frankly, some of these never-Trumpers laid the groundwork for this work right now.

So, now that the Dems have taken -- or that there's been a shift of power in the Senate that tilts towards Democratic policies, let's see where our new friends land. Let's see if we have learned the lessons of the past and can now move forward in a way where we can all proceed as patriots, not performative and not stoke the racist rhetoric and vitriol that led to this very moment.

REID: You know, and, Stuart, your book is called "It Was All a Lie."

So, I mean, you're sort of saying a lot of the same things in your book, right, that a lot of what you built, what you your sort of political foundations on were people who were performing a thing, but, in real life, were sort of backing white supremacy.

You now have "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board, which has been hand in glove with Trump for four long years, as he did all sorts of horrendous things to this country, now calling for Donald Trump to be removed from office.

You do have people who helped him do the deeds, like John Kelly, now saying, oh, yes, he should go, Mick Mulvaney, people who were hand in glove helping him, benefiting from it. You have Mitch McConnell doing this performance.

I don't see how those people should be back in good graces at all, right? They did this.

STEVENS: Look, first up, I got to say I don't think it's fair to throw Mitt Romney in with that other crowd.

Mitt Romney opposed Donald Trump in both his elections. He was the only Republican who voted for impeachment.

CROSS: He didn't, though. He didn't.

STEVENS: He didn't what?

CROSS: He didn't, Stuart. He's been on the stage with him.

Shortly after Donald Trump was elected, Mitt Romney came out and stood next to Donald Trump, applauded him, said he did something I couldn't do.

Now, granted, at the time, he was lobbying for a job as secretary of state that he didn't get. But he had ample opportunity to come out and stand against what Donald Trump did. And there are numerous times that he opted not to do so.

STEVENS: Look, he met with Barack Obama after he lost the presidency to Barack Obama.

When he was asked to meet with the president-elect of his own party, I don't think you can hold that against him, when he did the same thing with the Democrat.

I think that Mitt Romney has been a hero here. I think he has spoken out. And had other Republicans followed his example starting in the spring of 2016, we wouldn't be where we are now.

Now, look, I think, with all of these people who I think you can hold two somewhat contradictory thoughts at the same time. One, it is good for John Kelly and these people -- and whoever comes out and calls for this man to be removed from office is good.

At the same time, I believe that they should be held accountable for what they did and what they didn't do. And both of those can be true at the same time.

REID: Yes.

STEVENS: But the immediate urgency to get Donald Trump out of the White House.

REID: Indeed.

And he was already removed. I will note that he was already removed by the American people. So, removing him 14 days early would simply be codifying what was already decided by the American people.

Donald Trump is dangerous. We have to get all the way through the 20th, and this man has already invoked one white nationalist riot. He could do it again. And I think people should be very afraid.

And, Tiffany, I know you live right near the Capitol, so you experienced it firsthand.

Tiffany Cross, Stuart Stevens, I'm sorry. We're out of time. But I'm glad you guys were both here. And we will come back and have more debates like this one.

Still ahead: The double standard could not be clearer. Passive control, police officers offer for Trump supporters, and aggressive, heavy-armed agents for Black Lives Matter supporters. Quite a dichotomy.

Stay with us.


REID: Donald Trump spent his presidency claiming he was the president of law and order, until it was his supporters breaking the law.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are anarchists. These are not protesters.

They're bad people. They don't love our country.

Any acts or threats of political violence are an attack on our democracy itself. We must accept the verdicts of elections.

While I'm your president, we will protect our citizens, we will defend our federal buildings, and we will bring rioters and looters and thugs to justice.

So, go home. We love you. You're very special.


REID: And that last "We love you" was for the people who were rioting in the Capitol.

And the police appeared to change their tune as well, treating mostly white MAGA protesters entirely differently, compared to the way they have treated black protesters, from Ferguson to Baltimore to Washington, D.C., where, by the way, more than 300 Black Lives Matter protesters were arrested in one day, compared to the paltry dozens who were arrested in yesterday's chaos.

I'm joined now by Alicia Garza, principal of the Black Future Action Fund, and Brittany Packnett Cunningham, host of the podcast "Undistracted."

And, Brittany, I'm going to start with you first, because Ferguson is sort of seared into a lot of our minds. Baltimore is seared into definitely mine, because I was there. The way that police failed to prepare -- we spoke with the police chief earlier -- for this to happen, Malcolm Nance described it as they were acting like a school group was coming, rather than a group that they need to prepare for.

What do you make of the lack of preparation? And do you think it was right for the police chief to resign as a result?


This is why I think it's important, as you have been so careful to do, Joy, to choose the right language. We have been hearing all day all across television and social media that the police just let this happen. But that implies passivity.

And, Joy, as you well know, these are active choices. Just like it was an active choice to vote for Donald J. Trump in 2016 and again in 2020, it was a choice for certain journalistic outlets to humanize his followers. It was a choice to call him presidential on airwaves simply for being able to string together a sentence. It was a choice for social media platforms not to deplatform him.

Just like all of those choices, it is a choice to not prepare for a promised insurrection and mob. It is a choice to ignore the repeated requests of black lawmakers to secure the Capitol ahead of time. It is a choice to take selfies with insurrectionists and to open up barricades to just invite them in.

Joy, there are at least 35 federal and district law enforcement institutions in a 68-square-mile city called Washington, D.C., with only 684,000 residents in it. It was a choice for one of those departments to take the $460 million they get every single year and sit on their hands and pretend like this wasn't domestic terrorism.

And the rioters knew that they'd make this choice. And that's why they're online happily taking credit for everything that they caused yesterday. We are not here by accident. We are here because of intentional, deliberate choices that were made by people of power and privilege.

And guess what? They don't get to run away, because we won't let them. We will not forget this.

REID: Right.

And, Alicia, you have -- "The Nation" did a piece where they quote a woman who says she can't believe that anyone got arrested at all. It was only like 50-something people got arrested. And she says: "'This is not America,' a woman said to a small group, her voice shaking. She was crying, hysterical. 'They're shooting at us. They're supposed to shoot BLM. But they're shooting the patriots.'"

Like, what?


REID: The shock that there was any policing at all.

But what I saw was underpolicing. They weren't shooting at anyone. It was one woman, person did get shot up who was trying to breach the speaker's -- the area where the speaker of the House is. What do you make of it?

ALICIA GARZA, PRINCIPAL, BLACK TO THE FUTURE ACTION FUND: Listen, as Brittany said, and I 100 percent agree, this was clearly designed, and it was by design.

And even the outrage of the woman that you just talked about who was quoted in "The Nation," I mean, what she is saying is actually true for her. She deeply believes and deeply understands that this country is supposed to demonize Black Lives Matter.

It's supposed to demonize people who are fighting for dignity and justice and freedom. It is supposed to overpolice our communities. It's supposed to create us into an other that is criminal, animalistic and savage, and out to take something from white people in this country.

And that is literally laid out in display on that article. And I do want to also say here, one of the ways in which we see how whiteness is on display in this country, not just in that article, but over the last few days and, frankly, over the last 300-plus years, but certainly in a heightened way because of the events last night, is, frankly, that there are false equivalencies even being made between the insurrection and the attempted coup that happened yesterday with vanilla ISIS, at the behest of Donald Trump. And, you know, people who are taking to the streets because we are tired of being killed by the people who are supposed to protect and serve us, because we are tired of having our communities be devastated by a lack of resources while our military budgets and our police budgets are in the trillions.

And yet, as you saw at the capitol yesterday, vanilla ISIS was given milk and cookies. I can tell you 100 percent that, you know, a black woman who was having a mental health crisis dared to do a U-turn in front of the building and she was shot and killed. So, that is whiteness on display. And I'm glad that quote came out, because it is really reflective of how a will the of people see what America is.

REID: Yes. Amazing. You win for vanilla ISIS. You got that in there. I have to smile at that one.

Alicia Garza, Brittany Packnett Cunningham, thank you both very much. We went over time earlier in the show. I wish we had more time. Thank you.

OK. Coming up next, Mary Trump on how much damage her uncle is capable of doing on his way out the White House doors. So much more -- well, so much more. Stay with us.


REID: Months before a mob of domestic terrorists storm the U.S. Capitol in a violent try to overturn our presidential election, Mary Trump, Donald Trump's niece, wrote a tell-all family memoir for one simple reason. In her book, she writes: Donald, following the lead of my grandfather and with the complicity, silence and inaction of his siblings, destroyed my father. I have can't let him destroy my country.

Joining me now is Mary Trump, clinical psychologist and author of "Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man".

And, Mary, I have to start by asking about this rather surprising video which looks like a sort of belated attempt to save himself from investigation, prosecution or impeachment, whatever, that your uncle put out tonight, sort of walking it back and belatedly condemning the violence.

What do you make of that?

MARY TRUMP, AUTHOR, "TOO MUCH AND NEVER ENOUGH": I think somebody was able to get through to him and convince him that even if it's only performative, he needed to do something to mitigate the damage he caused only to himself of course. That's all he cares about. That he caused himself yesterday.

But, of course, it was purely performance. There was not any truth in it at all. And if you listen carefully, he doesn't actually concede the election.

So, there's no reason to take that video seriously. There's no reason to give him any credit for it. There's no reason at all to believe that it means that he is going to change going forward. We're still looking at a very difficult, potentially dangerous 12 days.

And it's certainly shouldn't do anything to let him off the hook. If he's not impeached and removed from office, we're in serious trouble.

REID: "The Wall Street Journal" called for him to resign. It doesn't seem like something he would do. I don't know if you have any difference on that.

But do you think that -- do you think that your uncle is mentally unwell? Meaning that he should be, the 25th Amendment should apply to him because he's mentally unwell?

MARY TRUMP: He's been mentally unwell since well before he was inaugurated in 2017. So I don't think that's the question anymore.

Honestly -- I mean, I'm not a constitutional scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but I personally think both avenues should be pursued because it may take longer to impeach and remove him. And at least they think if they start to enact the 25th Amendment, it will put certain things on hold.

But I also -- I don't want that to be used as an excuse to let him off the hook down the road by claiming that he wasn't mentally fit, you know?

REID: Yes.

MARY TRUMP: So, I think our best bet is impeachment and removal. But if it takes both, I'm okay with that too because the urgency here is to get him out of the office, and away from any power or protections the Oval Office affords him.

REID: And I think that's point, too, that he's dangerous. We talked about it earlier. That, you know, it's clear that he's dangerous because he just incited a mob to literally physically invade the United States Capitol.

He also has this pull over the set of media that there's a transactional relationship between him and this new far right media that look to me the new competitors to Rupert Murdoch's empire. You've got One America News Network, "The Epoch Times", which is connected to Falun Gong -- Google that -- Newsmax, Newsmax TV, and, of course, Parler.

And Parler has become a place where far right wing and white nationalist groups organize, where a lot of these -- the thing yesterday was organized in large part. We're now hearing for "USA Today" accounts connected to supporters of Donald Trump are implicitly or explicitly calling for violence, using Parler, with some asserting on Wednesday the war begins today, that they were asserting that yesterday.

Donald Trump himself has been locked off of Facebook for now, at least until the inauguration.

But are you concerned that his sort of cult is now self-fulfilling? And what kind of danger do you think that poses?

MARY TRUMP: It poses an enormous amount of danger, and there's no reason to suggest that he is not continuing to speak to them, in some fashion or another.

So, that's why what Congress does what Donald's cabinet does right now is so crucially important. They blew it yesterday. They have been blowing it for a long time now.

It's time to turn the page on this. Keep him contained and prevent his -- him doing any further harm, because he can and he will.

He's a very desperate person. I mean, he was probably feeling quite emboldened yesterday, not only because of a bunch of white supremacist, domestic terrorists on his orders were able to invade the Capitol building, thanks in very large part to how extraordinarily racist this country is, and the corrosive toxin of white privilege. But at the same time, they were not able to complete their mission to have the results of this legitimate election overturned.

So Donald is also freaking out because what other options does he have? Twelve days is a long time to wreak havoc, so we've got to stop this immediately.

REID: Yes, I'm with you on that.

Mary Trump, thank you so much for speaking out for so long. It's been very, very important, I think, to the future of this country. Appreciate you.

And we're back after this.


REID: Faced with reality that it was Trump supporters who attacked our democracy, right wing politicians like Sarah Palin, Matt Gaetz, and Mo Brooks are looking to blame anyone but the perpetrators. Instead, they lied and they're now trying to blame the right-wing boogie myth, Antifa.

The real culprits, of course, are a well known collection of QAnon supporters, militia members, and Proud Boys members and hangers on. In fact, yesterday's events were promoted by the Proud Boys leader, Enrique Tarrio, who posted, quote, the Proud Boys will turn out in record numbers on January 6th, but this time with a twist, unquote.

Earlier this week, Tarrio was arrested and banned from the nation's capitol, after he was arrested for vandalizing a Black Lives Matter banner ripped off an historic black church, and was found with high capacity firearm magazines.

Tarrio also happens to be the Florida state director of Latinos for Trump, which while officially unaffiliated with the Trump campaign, has fueled MAGA support among Cuban Americans and other conservative Latinos.

And one more curious thing, the Proud Boys have a long history of getting preferential treatment from police across the country.

For more, I'm joined by Will Sommer, politics reporter at "The Daily Best".

So, Will, let's go through these in order. This lie that it was Antifa, where did that come from, and how do they think they can get away with that with all the receipts all over social media?

WILL SOMMER, THE DAILY BEAST POLITICS REPORTER: As you say, Joy, it's very bizarre because we know Trump was promoting this rally. We know Trump supporters online were really excited about this protest, and indeed, the possibility of attacking Congress. Then once it happens, they say, oh, no, it's Antifa, even though as, you know, many of their cohorts continue to post pictures from Congress.

This was a story in the conservative "Washington Times" paper based on like some very shady sourcing involving a little known facial recognition company. They claim they recognized members of Antifa in the crowd. They didn't show any pictures.

Then Matt Gaetz gets on board, Mo Brooks and other member of Congress, and Laura Ingraham at Fox News. They say, oh, check it out, this lie goes everywhere.

And then the company that even supposedly came up with this technology says this story is totally fake. And, you know, as of tonight, "The Washington Times" has deleted the story and added a correction.

REID: Yes, of course, they will because they have to worry about lawsuits.

More to where -- to the actual people were, the woman who was killed in the Capitol who was climbing through one of the windows and was shot presumably by police. Police have now put the officer on sort of desk duty in the meantime, she embraced conspiracy theories.

Her name was Ashli Babbitt, 35 years old. She tweeted about pizza-gate. She tweeted thousands of tweets to Fox News hosts. She engaged in social media with the conspiracy news Internet site Info Wars.

In 2020, she began to tweet with QAnon accounts and use QAnon hashtags. She was a military veteran. She did three or four tours, you know, recently in Afghanistan or Iraq. She had military training, but she was QAnon.

SOMMER: Yes, she was heavily into QAnon based on her social media presence. This is someone who did not just tweet one hashtag once. I mean, as you mentioned, she was even into the pizza gate conspiracy theory.

You know, I think the key thing about QAnon is, this is not just people who love Trump, have some wacky ideas. I mean, at its core, QAnon is about this moment called the storm which they believe essentially Donald Trump will execute or imprison all of his enemies and all enemies even cultural, political enemies of conservatives. This is like a blood bath, a fascist thing, it's got a lot of anti-Semitic overtones.

And she had tweeted, she thought the storm was coming. It was going to happen on Wednesday. So, she was kind of appears to be looking forward to what was going to be a big blood bath.

REID: Yes. And lastly, the Proud Boys, what is this connection between the Proud Boys, the president, and police about?

SOMMER: Sure, so the Proud Boys is a far right men's club. You know, Proud Boys have been caught being members of the police or police have been caught being members of the Proud Boys. These Latinos for Trump group invited the leader of the Proud Boys on a tour of the White House. They claim they had some help within the White House setting up that tour.

You know, there's this very, you know, we know there were Proud Boys inside the Capitol, smoking cigarettes, partying it up after breaking in.

So, you know, there is this nexus, this kind of far-right connection, the proud boys are close with Roger Stone. So while I think the Trump administration would love to kind of obfuscate all their ties there, I mean, this is kind of a pro-Trump street brawling group.

REID: And so when you put it all together, how much danger do you think we're in as we head toward the inauguration with all of these groups free to roam, apparently?

SOMMER: Well, you know, on one hand, I think now, you know, as always happens after a national security problem like this, there's going to be a huge reaction from police. D.C. is already flooded with police and National Guard, as I think it should be until the inauguration. But going forward, I think it's a real risk that this was able to happen because now both the groups that were involved yesterday and any groups going forward are going to sense a vulnerability that you can rush, whether you rush the Congress, you could rush the statehouse, the governor's mansion, and kind of make your demands.

I mean, there were truly scary groups involved there. I think it gets at a larger block going on in our politics.

REID: Yes, indeed. They now know, as does ISIS, as does al Qaeda, as does any terrorist in the world, you can get in the Capitol, but you better use white folks because it's going to make it easier for you.

Will Sommer, thank you for being here and your reporting.

That is tonight's REIDOUT.



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