Summary:
Tiger Woods has been seriously injured in car crash, hospitalized
with leg injuries after car crash. Security officials testify before Senate
on Capitol riot. Sund says, January 6 is the worst attack on law
enforcement. Sund says, just learned department had received FBI report
warning of extremists planning assault on Capitol. GOP senators who pushed
election lies take part in hearing. Hearing reveals authorities were not
prepared for riot. Postmaster General Louis DeJoy is expected to make big
changes to the U.S. Postal Service. Congressman Gerry Connolly of Virginia
is interviewed.
Transcript:
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Thank you, as always, for watching THE BEAT. I`ll
be back tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. Eastern. And "THE REIDOUT" with Joy Reid is
up next.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening. We are following several major stories
tonight. In a moment, the latest from a dramatic day on Capitol Hill, where
lawmakers try to untangle the chain of events that resulted in the worst
security breach in more than two centuries, as Capitol Hill security
official testified for the first time.
But we begin with what we`re learning about the condition of golf icon,
Tiger Woods, who was seriously injured after his SUV went off the road and
rolled down a hillside in California. The Los Angeles County Sheriff`s
Department just wrapped a briefing with reporters where we learned that
Woods remains in serious condition with injuries to both legs.
I`m joined by NBC News Correspondent Steve Patterson at Harbor UCLA Medical
Center, where Woods was taken earlier today. Steve?
STEVE PATTERSON, MSNBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Joy, the latest coming from
that press conference gives us a better picture of what it was like on that
scene when Woods was being assisted by first responders who got on scene
fairly quickly. The biggest impression that we`re getting now that Woods
was conscious, that he was talking to first responders. In fact, when one
sheriff`s deputy asked him his name, he replied, Tiger.
These were obviously extremely serious injuries. He was taken to the
hospital in stable but serious condition with those injuries to the legs.
Nothing from the hospital so far, Joy, on the condition that he is in now,
although we did hear from his manager that he was taken to the hospital,
sent to surgery.
I should say though, this is not the closest hospital to that accident
location. According to authorities in that press conference, that there was
another hospital nearby that was a little bit closer, this hospital, about
20, 25 minutes by ambulance or so from the actual crash scene accident. If
he had been in a more serious situation, a life-threatening situation, one
of the deputies there said, one of the officials at that press conference
said he would have likely been taken to a closer hospital. And, again, he
was alert, he was conscious, he was talking to first responders on scene.
They also say there was no sign of impairment from Tiger Woods on scene. By
all the on-scene testing that they did in communications with Tiger Woods
and taking him from the scene to the hospital, that they had no indication
that there was any sign of impairment from Tiger Woods. Obviously, a lot of
this is going to be figured out as the investigation continues, as his
status becomes more apparent, as he leaves any sort of surgery or post-op
surgery that he`s in right now, as they`re working on his legs.
But as we know right now, Tiger Woods involved in that single-car accident,
by himself, extremely injured on his lower legs or extremities overall,
taken into surgery in stable but serious condition, treated, hospitalized
and, again, getting treatment for those injuries sustained.
I should say one more thing about -- they talked about the area of L.A.
County where that accident occurred. It was on a steep incline. I`m sure
you`ve seen images of the scene. That incline can catch people off guard,
according to authorities. That area infamous for S-curve turns, for those
hairpin turns, for those steep inclines that come out of nowhere. If you`ve
driven anywhere in L.A. County, those hillsides can catch a lot of people
off guard. They say they`ve had several accidents in that area. They`re not
sure if that has attributed to the accident here. But, obviously, that
along with other factors they`re investigating as we speak. Joy?
REID: All right. NBC`s Steve Patterson, thank you very much. Much
appreciated.
Okay, let`s turn to the other big story today. For the first time since
January 6th, we heard from the former top security officials responsible
for the U.S. Capitol, as well as the acting chief of the D.C. police.
Together, they painted a devastating portrait of disarray, poor
communication and bad intelligence, all culminating with their forces being
overwhelmed by the MAGA insurrectionist mob.
Here is former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN SUND, FORMER CAPITOL POLICE CHIEF: The events I witnessed January
6th was the worst attack on law enforcement and our democracy that I`ve
seen in my entire career.
These criminals came prepared for war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Now, let`s be clear. The Capitol police is unlike any policing
agency in America. With 2,300 sworn officers and employees and an
approximate budget of more than $400 million, they have one prime
directive. They are responsible for securing the Capitol complex, its
members and their staff and they answer only to Congress.
So for them to say that they were not prepared to do their one job at the
U.S. Capitol is an inconceivable scandal. You just heard, Sund, say that
they mob came prepared for war. But he never saw the FBI report warning of
just that, that extremist had planned to wage war on the Capitol. In fact,
Sund said he learned just yesterday, seven weeks after the attack, that his
agency actually did receive that FBI report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUND: I actually, just in the last 24 hours, was informed by the
department that they actually had received that report.
SEN. GARY PETERS (D-MI): How could you not get that vital intelligence on
the eve of what`s going to be a major event?
SUND: Thank you, Sir. I know that`s something that`s going to be looked
at. I think that information would have been helpful to be aware of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: The hearing also cast a damning light on the Department of Defense.
But Chief of D.C.`s metropolitan police said he was stunned by the
Pentagon`s hesitation to dispatch the National Guard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT CONTEE, ACTING D.C. METRO POLICE DEPT. CHIEF: I was stunned that,
you know, I have officers that were out there literally fighting for their
lives. And, you know, we`re kind of going through what seemed like an
exercise to really check the boxes and there was not an immediate response.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: This hearing was unusual for another reason. Some of the people
asking the questions have a lot of explaining to do about their own roles
that day. Senators Ted Cruz, Josh, fist in the air, Hawley and Ron Johnson,
three of the most pernicious perpetrators of the big lie that incited the
attack, are now playing judge and jury. In fact, Johnson tried to defend
the MAGA mob, suggesting it`s all just one big misunderstanding. And to
make that absurd case he quoted the firsthand account from a member of that
mob, someone who also happens to work for a right-wing think tank and
claims that Trump supporters were lured by provocateurs to attack the
Capitol.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): When he said the mood of the crowd was positive,
and festive.
Many with the marchers were families, small children, many were elderly,
overweight or just plain tired and frail, traits not typically attributed
to the riot-prone.
Some obviously didn`t fit in. And he describes four different types of
people. Plain clothes militants, agents provocateurs, fake Trump protesters
and in discipline uniformed column attackers. I think these are the people
that probably planned this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Senator Johnson went on to claim that nobody saw this attack coming.
I guess he missed all the times the former president called on his
supporters to join him in Washington on January 6th to, quote, stop the
steal and promised it will be wild. I guess he also missed the portions of
the impeachment hearing when the House managers showcased the gruesome
footage of the violent Trump-supporting attackers that day.
Would you expect anything else from the guy who literally said that the
deadly assault on the Capitol didn`t seem like an armed insurrection to
him?
I want to turn to Congressman Bennie Thompson, of Mississippi, Chair of the
Committee on Homeland Security in the House, and Elizabeth Neumann, former
Assistant Secretary for Threat Prevention and Security Policy in the
Department of Homeland Security.
And I want to go to you first, Congressman Thompson, because there were a
few things that were absurd about what we heard today, at least from the
questioners. Let`s start with Ron Johnson. The idea that, in his mind, the
attackers were not supporters of Donald Trump, and if they seemed to be,
they were pretending to be supporters of Donald Trump, that they were
agents provocateurs, who I assume he anticipates were Antifa, which was not
there, and that the people who stormed the capitol were frail, overweight
and had their children with them. I didn`t see any of that in the footage
that I saw.
You are the chair of the Homeland Security Committee in the House. What do
you make of Ron Johnson`s assessment?
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Well, his assessment is absolutely wrong.
Joy, everyone saw who broke into the Capitol. The insurrectionists were
prepared to do everything possible to harm members of Congress, Capitol
police, everyone. The intelligence that was provided even talked about the
persons who were coming. If you look at how they were dressed, everything
says they came there to do harm. They didn`t come there to observe the
counting of the votes. They came there to stop the steal. And so that`s
what we saw.
There`s no evidence whatsoever in the files that I have reviewed, my
committee has reviewed that says anything Senator Johnson says is true.
REID: And, Sir, you`re literally suing organizations that were involved,
including Donald Trump, that were involved in creating this nightmare for
the United States. Along the defendants, the people that you`re suing, are
you suing any Antifa groups?
THOMPSON: Well, they were not involved in it. There`s no evidence they
were there.
REID: Okay. Are you suing any grandparents and people who had children
with them?
THOMPSON: No, I`m not suing any Black Lives Matter individuals or
anything. I`m looking strictly at the people who showed up on January 6th,
broke into the Capitol, put all our lives at risk, the Proud Boys, the Oath
Keepers. And I want former President Trump and Rudy Giuliani, who obviously
was his lawyer at the time, who encouraged all of this.
We have mountains of email, Twitter feeds encouraging people to come. We
now have testimony from people who have been charged, who are saying we
came to Washington because President Trump told us to come. He needed help.
REID: You -- indeed. Giuliani said, trial by combat. He said that on the
Ellipse.
Elizabeth Neumann, another thing that was alarming that we heard today was
the head of the Capitol Police at that time, Mr. Sund, saying essentially
that the Capitol Police did not have the intelligence about the fact that
you had armed insurrectionists, right-wing groups, like the Oath Keepers,
like the Proud Boys, who were coming to the Capitol prepared for war. What
do you make of the idea that, as he says, they didn`t get that intel until
yesterday?
ELIZABETH NEUMANN, FORMER DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY ASSISTANT
SECRETARY: It`s kind of shocking, because any number of people on the
outside were raising alarms just based on open source intelligence. There`s
an open source intelligence group that I follow and they had raised alarms
multiple days prior to January 6th.
So I question that. I`m not suggesting that they were lying under oath but
I don`t think that they fully are accurately conveying the problem. It
wasn`t an intelligence-sharing problem. It was not understanding the
intelligence that you had.
And here is the other thing. I heard them say, like there was no
intelligence that they were going to storm the Capitol or that the attack
was going to happen there. You know, I think we`ve gotten lazy and we seem
to think that intelligence analysts are supposed to predict the future.
That`s not the role of intelligence. Intelligence is supposed to give you
their best assessment, the likelihood of something happening. And even if
you`re the security professional, your job is threat management, you are
always prepared. We`ve learned the hard way, over and over again,
overprepare.
So if you get that threat assessment that there might be a potential for
violence, that there are people focused on the Capitol. You overprepare and
hope that you don`t need it. But they kind of seem to do the opposite. And
there`s probably a number of reasons why they underestimated the threat
that was presented to them. But I don`t buy that this is an intelligence
failure. I buy that it`s a lack of understanding of the threat.
REID: Well, I want to get to what you just said, Elizabeth, because you
served in the previous administration. You know, what sort of unspoken
here, including in the Pentagon being so reluctant to deploy the National
Guard, is that they didn`t want to deploy the National Guard against Trump
supporters, that they didn`t want to anger Trump and his supporters by
having -- by sort of festooning the Capitol and the Ellipse with security,
that they didn`t want to have too many cops there because they didn`t think
that Trump would like the look of it, and they didn`t want to make his
supporters unwelcome. That`s what I read. Is that close to what you`re
feeling is the case?
NEUMANN: I think that there are multiple factors at play. That is
certainly a huge one. Nobody wanted to upset the president. There was
rightly a recognition that what happened in Lafayette Square in June of
last year was horrid and should never happen again, but we`re talking about
a different situation. If we didn`t have threat intelligence that somebody
was going to try to do something in Lafayette Square, the overreach was
that it was cleared for basically a photo-op and they used military forces
and combat approaches to clear peaceful protests.
We had indications that there were people in the crowd, not the entire
crowd, but there were a group of people that were planning violence. It
would be completely appropriate to make sure that you`re prepared for that
violence. So I feel like there`s probably lots of reasons that -- and lots
of bad decisions made along the way, including the very obvious one of
unconscious bias and we need to just be transparent about that. That is a
very real thing.
When you talk about domestic terrorism, people think it`s a bunch of white
guys that get in bar fights and can`t get their act together, can`t do too
much harm. And, clearly, that`s not the case. Clearly, we have threat
actors with malicious intent and they were coordinated and they could have
caused a lot more harm than what happened on January 6th.
REID: Indeed. We are out of time. But very quickly, I`m getting in
trouble. I`d say one more question, Bennie Thompson, Representative
Thompson, you`ve been contacted apparently by Proud Boys who want to talk
to you. Can you very quickly tell us what is this that they want to talk to
you about and as part of this lawsuit?
THOMPSON: One of the comments was -- and I directed them to my lawyer,
Joy. Basically, I told them whatever you want to say, you need to talk to
my lawyer. They said, no, we want to talk to you. No. The lawsuit is filed.
You talk to the lawyer or I`ll see you in court.
REID: Wow. Congressman Bennie Thompson, Elizabeth Neumann, thank you both
very much.
And up next on THE REIDOUT, Republicans love to decry cancel culture but
are gleefully trying to cancel a Biden nominee because of her tweets.
And, oh, the irony, the theme at this year`s CPAC annual conference is
America uncanceled, seriously. But it`s CPAC that just canceled a longtime
Trump supporter from appearing. Oopsy.
Plus, when Ted Cruz wasn`t furiously tapping away at his phone during
today`s insurrection hearing, and that`s ignoring the testimony of Capitol
police, he was whining about people need to show respect for others, the
same guy who abandoned his freezing constituents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX) (voice over): You know, here`s a suggestion. Just
don`t be a (BLEEP). Like just, you know, treat each other as human beings,
have some degree, some modicum of respect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Take your own advice, Ted. But no, no, no, Ted Cancun Cruz, as
terrible as you are, you are still not the absolute worst. Though I know
you`re trying. Always a terrible bridesmaid, never a bridezilla. Tonight`s
big reveal is coming up.
And be sure to join us on Friday at 7:00 P.M. Eastern for a special edition
of THE REIDOUT. I`ll be joined by Dr. Anthony Fauci and members of the
Congressional Black Caucus to discuss racial disparities in the COVID
crisis. Go to msnbc.com/townhall to be a part of our virtual audience and
to submit questions for our experts.
THE REIDOUT continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DEB HAALAND (D-NM), INTERIOR SECRETARY NOMINEE: I carry my life
experiences with me everywhere I go. It`s those experiences that give me
hope for the future.
If an indigenous woman from humble beginnings can be confirmed as secretary
of the interior, our country holds promise for everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: President Biden`s nominee for interior secretary, Representative Deb
Haaland of New Mexico, would, of course, make history as the first
indigenous woman to head the agency.
So, it should come as no surprise that, ahead of her confirmation hearing
today, Republican senators bankrolled by oil and gas interests were
slamming her record of environmental stewardship, including Montana Senator
Steve Daines, who vowed to block her nomination and later tweeted: "She`d
follow a radical anti-American energy agenda" and called her hostile and
divisive.
Now, those kinds of smears should sound familiar from attack ads currently
running against two of President Biden`s other nominees, his pick for
associate attorney general, Vanita Gupta, and his choice for health and
human services secretary, Xavier Becerra.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: Biden appoints Vanita Gupta for a top job in the Justice
Department. Biden promised unity, but this is a dangerous appointee.
NARRATOR: Health and Human Services, Biden appointed Xavier Becerra to run
it. He`s not a doctor. He`s a radical partisan, an activist, not a doctor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Yes, yes, yes, that`s right. Everyone`s a radical, dangerous, scary.
But you probably also noticed something else in all that fear-mongering. As
The Huffington Post notes, it`s President Biden`s nominees of color who
have faced outsized opposition. Perhaps the most vehement opposition has
been somewhat bipartisan, the nomination of Neera Tanden to lead the Office
of Management and Budget, which now hangs by a thread after West Virginia
Democratic Senator Joe Manchin decided to put his stake down, along with
Republicans, opposing her nomination over old tweets that he called
partisan statements.
Now, it`s worth remembering that Manchin green-lit orange Julius Caesar`s
nominee Ric Grenell as ambassador to Germany back in 2018. Now, you
remember -- may remember Grenell as basically a professional Twitter troll.
As a spokesman for Mitt Romney in 2012, he deleted his own tweets
targeting, among other things, Newt Gingrich`s weight and his wife`s looks,
as well as Michelle Obama`s exercising.
But I guess, since his trolling was bipartisan, that was OK by old Joe
Manchin. Oh, and Manchin is also currently undecided on Haaland`s
nomination for Interior. Hmm. What`s up with you, Manchin? Devo much?
Manchin told Politico he had a nice conversation with Neera Tanden, and his
opposition isn`t personal -- quote -- "There`s a time for bipartisanship to
begin," he furrowed. "We will see what happens on the other side."
With me now is Mara Gay, member of "The New York Times" editorial board,
and Susan Del Percio, Republican strategist.
And, Mara, I`m just going to go right to you. The Neera Tanden thing
bothers me. I`m just going to be honest. She is a friend. I like her a lot.
She`s a very smart, brilliant person who would do a good job in the role.
But more than that, we just faced four years of mean tweets, misogyny,
racism, hate speech on Twitter from the former president. And now, all of a
sudden, people are all up in arms over mean tweets. Your thoughts. I`m just
going to let you talk.
(LAUGHTER)
MARA GAY, EDITORIAL BOARD MEMBER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Sure. The double
standard is striking.
And I think the hope here is that the Democrats have learned the hard-
earned lesson of Merrick Garland, which is, you just have to ignore this as
nonsense and red meat that these Republicans are choosing to throw to their
base. And you have to move forward, build a coalition, and do the work that
the American people sent you to do.
I think getting caught up in these kind of faux bipartisanship, I guess,
kind of like activities is really silly, because real bipartisanship is
important. Building consensus among issues that Americans need, like
vaccine rollout, like infrastructure, that`s important work.
But here we have a situation where this is opposition for the sake of
politics, and nothing else. And so that`s where you really have to say,
elections have consequences. And you get your folks in line, and you whip
the votes, you do the work, and you ignore the noise.
REID: It is a thing, Susan, that galls a lot of people about Democrats.
If this was on the other side, when Donald Trump wanted to nominate anyone,
whatever their background, whatever their horrors of their past, he would
just say, I`m just going to put them. And if you don`t like him, I`m going
to make him acting, and that would be the end of it.
Here, with Democrats, you`re already hearing rumblings that they may be
pushing another person, Shalanda Young, who`s up for a deputy OMB post,
that maybe some in the Black Caucus are saying, let`s push her instead, in
case Neera Tanden`s nomination goes down.
By the way, she`s also a woman of color. She will also be portrayed as a
radical. She will also be unacceptable, because they`re just blocking or
attacking every woman of color or man of color that Biden nominates. I
don`t understand what Democrats don`t understand about that.
SUSAN DEL PERCIO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I do think Neera Tanden is
a separate -- a separate issue vs. all the other nominees.
First, I think that a president gets to choose his Cabinet. And that should
be, unless there is some fatal flaw, which there usually isn`t, because
they get vetted, they should be supported and endorsed by the Senate. That
should -- and confirmed by the Senate. That`s a no-brainer.
The difference with Neera Tanden vs. the other people that you mentioned is
that she was overtly political and attacked a lot of those senators there.
I am not saying that the senators...
(CROSSTALK)
REID: So was Grenell. So was Grenell. Wait, Susan. So was Ric Grenell.
DEL PERCIO: Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish.
REID: So was Ric Grenell.
DEL PERCIO: Let me finish.
The point that I have is that the Senate Republicans are always
hypocritical with anything in the last four or five years. So it`s not
surprising that they`re doing this. It is hypocritical. It is, I think,
wrong. There`s nothing in her record that says she shouldn`t be qualified.
I`m just stating the political fact.
Now, as far as the other nominees, I think that the Republicans are
desperate. They can`t fight the president on COVID relief, because 70-some
odd percent of the American public -- face it -- and they are looking for
an us-vs.-them issue. And they are doing it overtly and ugly and grasping
at straws to run those type of ads, because they have nothing else.
And it`s pathetic, and it`s wrong. And I couldn`t say it enough times. But
it`s exactly -- they are delivering exactly -- they`re trying to take Joe
Biden`s message of uniting our country and foiling it every single way they
can.
But, again, they can`t do it on the important things, the stuff that Mara
is talking about. They can`t do it on COVID relief. They can`t do it on
moving our country forward, Build Back Better. What can they do it on?
Race. And that`s what they`re doing. And it`s fundamentally wrong.
REID: Well, I mean, and the people of color see it. They notice that all
the ads are people of color.
Mara, I think about -- I know Joe Manchin has his own politics in West
Virginia. However, he`s now spoken up about only two nominees. Both are
women of color. I don`t understand what his politics actually are in this
instance, because he`s also spoken out against the checks that people are
desperately needing for relief.
He`s placed himself in a very strange political position. I don`t get it.
Do you get it? Because he was for a lot of nominees that one might think
were quite objectionable. I mean, he was for he was -- he was OK on
Kavanaugh. He was OK on lots of other people in the Trump administration.
GAY: Yes.
Yes, I honestly don`t get it either. But I will tell you that the fact that
we are having a conversation right now about what`s inside Joe Manchin`s
head is just a very frustrating example of the kind of structural
disadvantage faced by the majority of Americans in this country because of
the Electoral College and the map of the Senate map, that we are held
hostage as a country by the whims of a -- of a senator from a very small
state, comparatively, who`s a part of the majority at this point, but
really doesn`t represent a majority of Americans.
And that really is a direct line to the lingering effects of the filibuster
and the blocking of the expansion of democracy. And so a majority of
Americans voted to put Democrats in office, not because they want
hyperpartisanship, but because they want the country to work again, and
they want an end to racist, fascist politics.
And you know what? I think that`s the message that the Democrats need to
seize on. I think if they keep doing the work, and they keep a tough line
on these nominations, they can probably -- they will be OK.
But they really shouldn`t allow themselves to be hostage to the whims of a
single Democrat from West Virginia, because, if this is the opening note,
what`s it going to look like a year from now on far tougher battles?
REID: Indeed. Once they get one person, they will come for more. And I --
Biden could just make her acting. That`s what -- that`s what the previous
guy would have done.
Mara Gay, Susan Del Percio, thank you both very much. Spirited
conversation.
And still ahead: As we mark one year since the killing of Ahmaud Arbery in
Georgia, a new report finds Colorado police had no reason to detain young
Elijah McClain, a detention that ultimately led to his death in police
custody.
More of THE REIDOUT after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: We now turn to some breaking news.
The police officers who placed a mesh hood on a black man in Rochester,
pressing his face into the pavement for two minutes, until he died of
suffocation, will not be charged in his death.
That unfortunately not-so-surprising news comes as we mark one year since
Ahmaud Arbery was shot and killed by three white vigilantes with police
connections as he jogged on a street in Georgia.
There are also new developments in a separate case that occurred 18 months
ago, when 23-year-old Elijah McClain died after police officers in Aurora,
Colorado, restrained him with a choke hold that was -- that has since been
banned.
Now, a warning to our viewers: The body-cam footage we`re about to show
you is disturbing. So, take a moment. And here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He looked sketchy. He might be a good person or a bad
person.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop right there. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.
ELIJAH MCCLAIN, DIED IN POLICE CUSTODY: I have a right to...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop. I have a right stop you because you`re being
suspicious.
MCCLAIN: Well, OK.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around. Turn around. Turn around. Stop. Stop
tensing up.
MCCLAIN: No, let go of me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop tensing up.
MCCLAIN: No, I am an introvert. Please respect the boundaries that I am
speaking.
That`s what I was doing. I was just going home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: An independent investigation has now concluded that police had no
legal basis to stop or use force to detain McClain and that responding
paramedics sedated him with a powerful sedative, ketamine, without
conducting anything more than a brief visual observation.
Joining me now is Phillip Atiba Goff, co-founder and CEO of the Center for
Policing Equity.
And, Phillip, thank you so much for being here.
The Elijah McClain case is just infuriating. I lived not too far from
Aurora growing up there. I`m somewhat familiar with that sort of police --
police department. But the idea that these police officers would say they
have a right to stop you because you seem suspicious, he wasn`t doing
anything. He wasn`t committing a crime.
It almost feels like, if you`re black, you actually don`t have the right to
even walk the streets in this country.
PHILLIP ATIBA GOFF, CEO, CENTER FOR POLICING EQUITY: Well, that`s what we
saw.
I mean, if you -- we`re used to hearing the refrain, stop resisting, stop
resisting. But the officers in this case said, stop tensing up? At what
point are we supposed to have superhuman control of our bodies, when armed
representatives of the state grab us on our way home, don`t explain why,
and then tell us how we`re supposed to move?
I mean, the last words -- last words of Elijah McClain, I mean, some of
these just hit different. He says: "I`m an introvert. I`m not like that. I
don`t do those things. You all are beautiful. And I love you. Please try
and forgive me," while his life is being -- they`re drugging him without
asking him, because they have just decided that, like an animal, he needs
to be sedated.
Communities are beyond tired. They`re beyond enraged. I don`t think we have
words for the emotions in this kind of space.
But when you say it feels like we don`t have the right to -- we don`t have
the right to do anything, when law enforcement can do everything, and there
will be no consequences, all on one day.
REID: We just saw what has happened in Dallas, where a young man is
walking home in the freezing cold because it`s freezing and there`s an ice
storm and a snowstorm, and he gets detained. And just because he doesn`t
need any help and he`s like, I`m fine, they`re like, well, we`re going to
arrest you and you`re going to sit in jail overnight, for nothing.
It`s literally for nothing, just for walking.
Joe Biden tweeted about the other case, Ahmaud Arbery, which is slightly
different, because there`s actually something you can do, because these
guys aren`t currently cops. Biden tweeted: "A black man should be able to
go for a jog without fearing for his life. Today, we remember Ahmaud
Arbery`s life, and we dedicate ourselves to making this country safer for
people of color."
Let me play his mom, who did an interview with NBC News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANDA COOPER-JONES, MOTHER OF AHMAUD ARBERY: You can`t move on. I cannot.
I try. But when I laid Ahmaud to respect back last February, a part of me
left also. And it`s painful.
I`m hoping. I pray, because I have another son. I have grandsons. And I
pray. I pray.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: I mean, this was essentially a chase-down lynching.
But the difference here is that Mrs. -- Ahmaud Arbery`s mom -- her name is
Ms. Wanda Cooper-Jones -- she can actually sue. She has filed a federal
lawsuit against the men charged with killing her son and the police and
prosecutors that she says conspired to protect the killers.
She`s filed a million-dollar lawsuit. She can sue these killers, these
people who killed her son, because they`re not cops right now. They`re --
they have cop ties, but they aren`t cops.
What does it mean that the only chance of getting justice is if the killers
of your child, of your son are not currently police officers? Because, if
they were cops, she couldn`t do much.
GOFF: Yes, I don`t know in what other universe it makes any kind of sense
to say, ooh, I hope they don`t work for me, so that I can hold them
accountable. I hope they`re not representatives of the government that I
elect, so that I can hold them accountable, right?
I hope that they`re not supposed to uphold the ideals of the flag that I`m
supposed to salute and the country I`m supposed to have to pledge fealty
to, so that I can hold them accountable.
The idea that law enforcement can`t be held accountable because they`re law
enforcement, it`s -- it doesn`t make no kind of sense. And that`s why
people are talking about more than just fixing the systems that are there.
They`re talking about rooting them up and building new ones, because we
can`t imagine much better outcomes than our people being murdered this way
without any accountability from the people who get paid from our tax
dollars.
There are better ways. It`s just not reasonable. It`s absurd to imagine it
has to imagine that it has to be like this.
REID: You know, at the top of this block I talked about this police
officer who put a hood over a man`s head, basically suffocated him to
death. Nothing is going to happen. They`re not going to get charged.
What we`re talking about is ending qualified immunity, because right now,
all these big settlements you`re seeing are against the city. So, the
taxpayers pay. Not the officers. If individual officers could be sued for
assaulting or killing someone, do you think that would change how police
behave?
GOFF: So, I mean, it`s been a debate for a long time. It`s a tricky issue
because of the way the insurance process would work. I`m for holding folks
individually accountable but the unions end up paying out. So, all of it is
just messed up. We could do things so there are less killings.
I`m in favor of folks facing accountability if they kill someone but I`m in
favor of people not dying at the hands of folks paid by tax dollars, you
know? And I think we got to say it, in places like San Francisco,
Berkeley, Ithaca, New York, recently, they are talking about there`s no
reason to send law enforcement to a good portion of places where they`re
going, folks are having a mental crisis, substance abuse crisis or wearing
a t-shirt when it`s winter outside.
That`s not something that should be met with deadly force or the threat of
it. So, yes, we can talk about individual accountability but I`d much
rather be re-envisioning the systems and the money we waste both on murder
and paying out of our own pockets for the restitution of that murder. All
of that is madness. And especially this summer, if we`re returning to a
world where this is normal, then we have failed ourselves and there`s no
reason to give up.
REID: Indeed, and people, stop calling police on random black people for
no reason. It`s a people problem not just a police problem. You need to
stop doing that. The people who called 911 on any random black man you see
in the street are also responsible for that. That`s a whole other
conversation.
Phillip Atiba Goff, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here.
And up next, tonight`s absolute worst.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are calls from House Democrats this weekend to
hold an urgent congressional hearing over Postal Service delays, demanding
answers from the man who has run the agency for just two months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve had mail that`s been left in the plants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way they`re stopping it, the mail is just not
making it to transportation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This photo provided to NBC News by a postal employee
shows packages the employee says have been sitting in a distribution center
in New York for nine days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: You may remember those scenes that played out last year, like
everything else that the orange one touched. It turned to chaos. In fact,
misfit of Mar-a-Lago had plans to privatize the Postal Service.
And he wouldn`t have been the first Republican president to try. In the
1980s, Ronald Reagan led their party to prioritize just about every service
that the government provided. While privatization appeals to some people,
we know that when it comes to private companies, it`s more about the bottom
line than serving the public interest. It hasn`t always worked out with
prisons, hospitals and our children`s education, to say the least.
That brings us back to the postal service and the postmaster general the
former president inflicted on the country, Louis DeJoy who is, in fact, the
absolute worst. DeJoy is the first person to lead the agency more than 20
years with no direct experience at the Postal Service. He did, however,
donate more than $1.2 million to the big loser`s campaign and has past
business ties to the postal service`s private competitors.
It didn`t take long for DeJoy to spring into action, slashing spending
before potentially opening up the bidding.
The sweeping changes over the summer included eliminating overtime, closing
mail processing facilities, removing mail sorting machines and reducing
post office hours -- all of this during a pandemic, when people relied more
than ever on deliveries. A federal judge later blocked the changes.
But the damage was already done, causing a backlog of undelivered mail. You
probably felt those effects and maybe you still do today. As an added bonus
to Trump, the changes threatened to delay millions of mail-in ballots.
Now, fortunately for all of us, democracy prevailed. So, with President
Biden now in office, why hasn`t he given DeJoy the boot? Unfortunately he
can`t. At least not yet. Nine-member board of governors chooses the
postmaster general.
Now, fortunately for Biden and the rest of the country, there are four open
seats for him to fill, allowing for DeJoy to be returned to sender.
But with less than half of Biden`s cabinet confirmed, it could take time
before those nominations are even made. And in the meantime, DeJoy, the
absolute worst, will be free to continue to make his changes to your mail
service.
But tomorrow he will be back in the hot seat, testifying in front of
Congress and will have to answer some questions about new reported changes
that could include higher prices for consumers and slower deliveries, and
that is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these
couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds.
Unfortunately, the unofficial Post Office service motto did not take into
account Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, who is expected to make big changes
to your Postal Service.
According to sources familiar with the move, the plan to eliminate first-
class mail which includes letters, magazines, catalogs, among others, would
slow down mail that typically arrives within two days and make it more
costly to deliver for both consumers and businesses.
In a statement, DeJoy said the plan is not yet final, but expect the
proposed changes to be among the questions DeJoy receives when he appears
before Congress tomorrow.
Joining me now is Congressman Gerry Connolly of Virginia, one of the
members of the House Oversight Committee, who will be questioning DeJoy.
I`m sure you have lots and lots of questions, but I want to start with a
memo from the Republican side of the Senate in which DeJoy allegedly
personally ordered Postal Service overtime cuts.
The section of the memo is called, USPS operational shift to reduce
exorbitant overtime, and he discusses in it the recent plan to put forth
the overtime reductions, basically slashing the work schedules.
Do you know if that has been reversed?
REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA): Well, we know that he did that as soon as he
became postmaster general this past summer, as you pointed out, Joy, and we
know that it had a very disruptive effect. Frankly, the pandemic only got
worse after that. And more postal workers got sick or had to quarantine
because they were exposed to the virus, meaning we needed more overtime,
not less.
So whether he`s kind of planning revisiting that policy to reinstitute it
or not, I can`t confirm, but I think it would have a disastrous impact on
delivery to customers.
REID: Well, and also on the workers themselves, we know that postal
workers are disproportionately people of color, they`re disproportionately
veterans. The idea that you would be cutting their overtime for communities
that are especially vulnerable, economically anyway in a lot of ways is
pretty awful. But there`s another aspect to this as well.
You have the Postal Service being the only agency I`ve ever heard of that
has to pre-fund their retirement benefits for 75 years which makes them --
CONNOLLY: That`s right.
REID: -- basically financially insolvent.
Is that something the Democrats can reverse now that you all have control
of both sides of Congress?
CONNOLLY: Working with Chairwoman Maloney, there`s a group of us that are
going to put that in what`s called a skinny bill, one of the financial
provisions that would really make a difference to the Postal Service,
you`re absolutely right.
That was a provision the Republicans put in in a lame duck session in 2006
under the guise of reform. It created an enormous debt overhang on the
Postal Service that is unnecessary and unique to the Postal Service. As you
said, I mean, no one else is required to do that.
And so it probably adds $5 billion to $6 billion a year in debt that is
purely a paper requirement, and since Congress created the problem, we need
to fix it.
REID: Yeah. And the other issue, of course, is this thirst for
privatization and deregulation, and these are things that Republicans call
their bread and butter. DeJoy specifically, because he was involved in
businesses that compete with the Postal Service, there is a particular
stench around him, because, you know, if he were to, like, start selling
off postal assets, when he left the gig, he would be in a position to maybe
acquire some of those assets.
Do you think he ought to be investigated, number one, for what he did to
the Postal Service, to the extent that he interfered with it, and to
whether he himself has an interest in purchasing assets that may be sold
off by him?
CONNOLLY: Certainly, I believe there ought to be a thorough examination of
his behavior and his actions that led to the disruption and delay of mail.
It really helped erode public confidence in voting by mail, that part they
succeeded at, and really brought this repute on a revered service that
everybody relies on every day, during a pandemic, especially.
REID: Yeah.
CONNOLLY: Whether he has a personal conflict of interest, I don`t know. I
think there are certainly grounds for being concerned about that, which is
why he should never have been hired in the first place by the enabling
board of governors.
REID: You know, the Postal Service is one of those entities that everyone
actually loves. You know, in the rural community, it`s the only way they
can get mail on a lot of ways. You know, those private entities don`t
necessarily serve rural areas whether you`re Republican or Democrat.
Do you think because it is so a universally beloved entity that is unlike
anything anywhere in the world, they don`t have that in Europe, it`s the
way that we do, that this could be the one thing Republicans might not
stand in the way of, or do you think they`re just in such a zeal to
privatize it that they don`t care?
CONNOLLY: Well, I think the hard ideologues don`t care. But I think there
are a lot of Republicans from rural America who most certainly do care,
because of the very point you just made, Joy. This is -- in the pandemic
our lives are upended. We can`t -- our kids can`t go to school, we can`t go
to concerts or restaurants, we can`t work normally. We`ve got to use
telework.
But the one constant every day for every household and every business in
America is that mail gets delivered. And you fool around with that at your
own peril politically. So I do think your point is well taken that there is
a potential coalition of Republicans and Democrats who would rise to defend
the Postal Service if the ideologues really tried to privatize it. But
they`re also doing what they can to sabotage it.
REID: Yeah, in the meantime, and hopefully, DeJoy won`t be there much
longer. Let`s just see what happen.
Congressman Gerry Connolly, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time
this evening.
CONNOLLY: Thank you.
REID: And one more reminder to all of you to join us -- thank you -- on
Friday at 7:00 p.m. for a special edition of THE REIDOUT. I will join by
Dr. Anthony Fauci and members of the Professional Black Caucus to discuss
racial disparities in the COVID crisis. Go to MSNBC.com/townhall to be part
of our virtual audience and to submit questions.
That is tonight`s REIDOUT. I`ll be back here tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. with
specialist guest Tom Klain, President Biden`s chief of staff.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END
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