Summary
Oath Keepers charged with seditious conspiracy; Oath Keeper Leader Stewart Rhodes charged with sedition. Oath Keeper Leader Stewart Rhodes 1 of 11 charged with seditious conspiracy in January 6 attack. Oath Keeper leader facing up to 20 years in prison. DOJ says, Oath Keepers discussed weapons and training for 1/6.
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: So, appreciate both of you David Byrne and Bobby Wooten from American Utopia. Keep on rocking in a free world.
DAVID BYRNE, MUSICIAN: Thank you.
BOBBY WOOTEN III, MUSICIAN: Thanks for having us.
BYRNE: Thanks for having us on.
MELBER: Thank you both. I appreciate you guys.
That does it for us. As mention THE BEAT is over, MSNBC goes on though. THE REIDOUT with Joy Reid starts right now. Hi, Joy.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: I got to tell you that theme for the year might be same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was. We love the Talking Heads. Thank you very much, great interview, have a wonderful weekend.
MELBER: See you, Joy.
REID: All right, everyone -- cheers.
Good evening everybody. We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with a story that you might remember about an armed militia that rose up against the U.S. government but not in Washington, at least not at first. In 2014 Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy owed the U.S. government more than $1 million in fees for letting his cattle graze on federal lands without a permit for 21 years. But he refused to pay the fine, claiming that Nevada was a sovereign state and that, quote, I don`t recognize the United States government even as existing. Okay, that sounds ridiculous. But he was dead serious.
When officials with the U.S. Bureau of Land Management came to confiscate his cattle, a kind of repo man situation, an armed standoff broke out. And who joined Cliven Bundy in that standoff against the U.S. government, Elmer Stewart Rhodes, Founder of the Oath Keepers, who called for his patriots to amass for a military combat operation.
Fearing mass bloodshed, federal agents round-up releasing the cattle in order to deescalate the situation. Here is Rhodes celebrating that victory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELMER STEWART RHODES, FOUNDER, OATH KEEPERS: It was a posse. Those cowboys showed America how it is done. You cowboy up and freaking ride. That`s what they did. A lot of credit also goes to militia guys that showed up today.
You`ve got militia members here from all over the country. What we saw there was the people. What it was, was a combined arms defense of the Constitution. What happened today was a choice between bending the knee and submitting and standing up and you folks stood up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Now, despite Rhodes orchestrating that standoff, he was never arrested, unlike some of the other participants. Sue Dellums, whose husband was arrested, as BuzzFeed, how come Stewart isn`t in prison? He was there. He told everyone to come.
But the Bundy standoff was just one of many examples were Rhodes faced zero consequences for his actions, that is until he was arrested yesterday accused of seditious conspiracy. And it goes back much further than the Bundy Ranch. Rhodes has been part grafter, part fame hound for years. His story is a tale as old as time, an average white guy with a fancy education but not a lot to show for it, who found his niche in the American right- wings negative obsession with none other than feminist boogeywoman Hillary Clinton, because, of course.
As BuzzFeed note in a pretty epic backgrounder on Rhodes, he literally wrote a foaming at the mouth blog post in 2008 imagining what if, quote, Herr Hitlery, that`s what they called her, is sworn in this president in 2009 and signs a ban on firearms, just as favorite Chairman Mao jumpsuit. Yes, he wrote that. He theorized that the entire militia movement would be labeled enemy combatants and police would be ordered to go house to house to disarm the American people. He asked, would you do it? Would you just follow orders to shoot your fellow Americans?
By 2009 with the first black president in office and the tea party movement raging, he founded the Oath Keepers, centered on a ten item list of unconstitutional orders that the law enforcement and military members, this one-time army paratrooper recruited, must never obey. Rhode`s ideas picked up enough steam that he was actually interviewed on this very network.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know when you would call your forces together and challenge the U.S. government, when did you do that?
RHODES: It not about calling force, it`s not calling forces together. It simply saying they`re not going to comply with orders to violate the rights of the American people. We`re not talking about, that asking them to go fight. We`re saying simply don`t fight. Don`t fight these people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Don`t fight, interesting. Now, part of Rhodes` appeal was that he was a Yale-educated lawyer. He would get involved in conflicts and offer to represent clients. But he was literally disbarred after the Montana Supreme Court found that he had abandoned multiple clients as their cases came to trial. And as BuzzFeed notes, for Rhodes, conflict is the goal, not resolution, because conflict raises money. More conflict means more publicity which in terms brings more revenue from donations and merchandise sales and $50 a year membership dues. As a former membership described at the BuzzFeed, he flies in, throws up a PayPal and then disappears.
Of course, once Trump became President the Oath Keepers went from anti- government to, yes, pro-government sending members to provide volunteer security at Trump rallies. I guess the government is cool if it`s in the right hands.
[19:05:09]
And the idea that the election was somehow stolen from dear leader Trump, well, that turned out to be the perfect cause to rally his amateur troops around and rally the troops he did, but this time Rhodes, for the first time, is having to answer for his incitements himself.
I mean, part of those who fomented the Capitol actually in Washington, he`s facing up to 20 years in prison charged with seditious conspiracy, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of a federal -- of an official proceeding and conspiracy to prevent an officer from discharging any duties, in this case, trying to prevent Congress from certifying the presidential election. He`s also charged with tampering with documents or proceedings with the DOJ alleging that he deleted communications on his phone that showed his involvement in the conspiratorial attempted coup on January 6th of last year.
Yet he`s first court appearance today in Plano, Texas and will stay in custody until his detention hearing, which is scheduled for January 20th, fittingly, one year to the day after President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris were inaugurated.
Joining me is Maya Wiley, former Assistant U.S. Attorney, and Frank Figliuzzi, former FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence.
And Frank, I want to go right to you. Because I am sort of in a long time worm hole about where these kind of militia movements that seem to peak, at least if you listen to the Southern Poverty Law Center, every time a Democrat is president, so when Bill Clinton was there, you have the Murrah bombings, you have the sort of militia movement spring up, then you get another spurt of it when you know the fear, that Hillary Clinton was going to become president and the first black president, President Obama comes in, you`ve got these movements that keep spiking each time and then you have this Bundy Ranch thing that happens.
Do you think that perhaps maybe when, you know, sort of federal authorities, FBI, et cetera, didn`t draw enough connections between these movements, which attracted really the same kind of person that was then also attracted to be part of something like the Oath Keepers?
FRANK FIGLIUZZI, MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: What a great observation and probably not talked about enough. And you`re certainly right to draw a connection between the inception of Oath Keepers and the election of Barack Obama as our first black president. That`s exactly when they decided they would announce their formation and you can`t hide that fact.
But what you`re getting to on a larger scale is really this continued theme that I keep pushing, which is the inability of law enforcement to see us, American citizens, people who look like us as a threat. And that`s the problem with domestic terrorism and trying to counter domestic terrorism.
You know, we just heard the denouncement from DOJ this week. They created a new domestic terrorism unit. Fantastic but it`s 2022. It`s one year after the January 6th anniversary. It`s over 25 years after the Murrah Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing and we`re creating a unit now at DOJ. So, yes, you`re getting to the problem of seeing us as a threat, real easy to see those folks over there as the threat.
We got all kinds of laws, international terrorism laws, material support to terrorism, but we don`t have domestic terrorism law. We still can`t quite see ourselves as the threat we are and anticipate and predict a movement that`s going to come out of some other triggering event.
REID: Well, to stick with you for a moment, I mean, see us as a threat, I mean, the us depends who you mean by us. I mean, we have Muslims in America, law enforcement has had no problem entering their mosques when some Muslim anywhere around the world commits a terrorist act. They have no problem like profiling them. Black Lives Matter is a peaceful. I think there was something of the statistics, like 96 percent of Black Lives Matter protests were peaceful but law enforcement has no trouble targeting but tear gassing Black Lives Matter marchers, right?
Is the problem here that the person who kind of looks like the G man and looks like the G man`s family, people basically who look like you, Frank, that there is an inability for law enforcement to see that particular demographic as threatening? Because they certainly seem to manage to consider lots of other groups who are Americans to be threatening.
FIGLIUZZI: Well, our history is filled with what you`re talking about, whether you want to talk about Jay Edgar Hoover and the 60s, in the early 70s, and the Black Panther movement and MLK, right, clearly, real quickly, identified as a threat whether they were or not, right, and then you fast forward to 9/11 and all kinds of steps being taken to develop informants, undercover agents, wiretapping, all within the law.
But why? Because the law allowed it, or in the case of Jay Edgar Hoover, there were no laws governing it at all.
[19:10:00]
So, yes, we`ve got a problem here and it`s going to require a rethinking of how you approach the domestic threat writ large, regardless of skin color and religion. If you change the religion of the folks entering the Capitol on January 6th to Islam, likely, undercover agents, informants would have picked that up before it happened.
REID: Absolutely. And he will be profiled -- being profiled left and right.
Maya, it`s interesting that one of the arguments -- because part of the reason that it`s been difficult, I think, also for law enforcement is not just that the blink or sort of think about demographics but also that the right has been actually really proactive about pushing back when law enforcement tries to draw the connections. I can remember -- I`m old enough to remember during the Obama administration, Department of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano`s output, trying to say hey, look, we should take a look at these potential domestic terrorists who are right wing influence and have right wing ideologies.
But because they were predominantly white Christians, the outrage on the right was so overwhelming that they actually withdrew the report. They were like, sorry, we won`t profile them anymore. There are many black people we can go back and profile, sorry. And let me just give you an example of that. Because part of the talking point on the right about January 6th is that you can`t call it an insurrection and you can`t call it a conspiracy because nobody has been charged with that. Take a look at this little quick sound mash-up our great producers put together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: It was an insurrection. So how many of the participants in that insurrection have been charged with insurrecting, with sedition, with treason? Zero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has anybody been charged on January 6th with insurrection? They keep calling this an insurrection. Nobody. Has anybody been charged with sedition? Nobody. Has anybody been charged with treason? Nobody. So, why do they keep calling it an insurrection?
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: How many times do words, like insurrection, sedition or treason appear in Biden`s own DOJ indictments against the January 6th rioters? The answer, zero.
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): It`s an insult to people when you say it`s an insurrection and then a year later nobody has been charged with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: (INAUDIBLE) political analyst at Fox News literally yesterday said, hey, you know, let`s view, base our thoughts on January 6th about whether anybody is charged with an insurrection, we can go on and on and on. Give us -- is there any material difference between this specific charge and the charges that this man and the others face, seditious conspiracy and insurrection, Maya, from a legal point of view?
MAYA WILEY, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. From a legal point of view, this is significant and flies in the face of that argument that we`re hearing from the right that says, don`t believe your lying eyes because you haven`t seen it in an indictment. Well, not only did we see it but this indictment is, and I`ve said this before, I`ll say it again, it`s not just the smoking gun. It`s a smoking howitzer. Because it is literally relying on statements made in text, in communications between Stewart Rhodes and the other co- conspirators that are listed in that indictment, many of whom have been charged, right, and are facing criminal policies already.
So, this is actually demonstrating how, one, the Department of Justice had been building to this moment, right? But also that it`s really put together the evidence because -- and I`m sure we have never usually see all the evidence in an indictment, right, just enough. What is in there is quite explicit that says, you know, Stewart Rhodes, who, by the way, even before the indictment back in November of 2020, was on Alex Jones` InfoWars saying essentially that he would be prepared for the nuclear option that they already were amassing people outside of D.C.
He said that at the beginning of this and they`re tracking from that all these communications about, you know, civil war, civil wartime, you know, it`s -- they started running training, recruiting folks and running training exercises. And as we already saw from the videotape with our own eyes but it`s in the indictment as well, planned and went in with military strategy enforced and that really demonstrates just how planned it was. But it`s all right here in the indictment with black and white.
And what we know is they don`t plead guilty, obviously, it doesn`t seem like that`s what we`re going to see. There is going to be a trial and that means there is going to be a matter of public record and public evidence even more than we`ve seen in that indictment and nobody is going to be able to use those talking points anymore.
Yes. I mean, let`s put up -- this is one for our great team in the control room. This is a photo of the Oath Keepers. It`s literally labeled. So, this is part of the indictment.
[19:15:00]
They literally labeled them all together. And very quickly for you, Maya, and then for you, Frank, is the goal generally in these kinds of prosecutions to say like Connie Meggs or Laura Steele, here you are in this photo, there you are, I`m circling you, you want to testify against Stewart Rhodes or what? Like is the goal here to flip one of them or to just indict them all or prosecute them all? They`re already indicted, prosecuted.
WILEY: They`re already indicted. What you always want to get whenever you have co-conspirators is some being willing to say, okay, we`re in trouble here. I`m going to be the first early, get the best deal to really give evidence against the others. That`s always beneficial. And if these co- conspirators have good lawyers, they`re going to start talking because the indictment is powerful. And as we`ve seen, there`s also public record, not just what we`re hearing is in the text messages but what just we`re hearing in those text messages explicit, explicit, because this is about violent overthrow and preventing the government from doing what it`s constitutionally charged to do.
REID: And, Frank, you know, yesterday, I made the Bin Laden analogy, right, that sort of Trump is sort of the Bin Laden in the situation, saying, hey, you all should really make me stay in office and do X, Y and Z, but then he sits back and watches it on T.V. and enjoys. He doesn`t fly the plane himself, so to speak.
In this case, Stewart Rhodes has been doing that a long time. I mean, with the Bundy Ranch stuff, he is like, hey, get in there and fight, but he then tends to walk away and get away. This time, he`s a part of it. He`s been charged. He`s now been read to rights.
How would law enforcement agency that wanted to break these kinds of momentums toward this kind of anti-government conspiracies that escalated from Montana, from out west all the way to the Capitol, how do you undo it? How do you even get in there? Do they need to start infiltrating these groups? Like what do they need to do?
FIGLIUZZI: Here is the dilemma. We saw on January 6th a failure to act upon available intelligence. People were afraid of the intelligence. People are -- understandably law enforcement agencies do not want to spy on Americans. They don`t want to violate civil liberties, but we have got to allow them to do what they can do within the law. And even within the law, Joy, they could have seen that intelligence, getting reports, could have opened at least threat assessments, if not, full investigations to study and analyze what was happening and develop further intel about January 6th.
The handcuffs have to come off of federal law enforcement to be allowed what they can already lawfully do. And then we need new techniques allowed so that they can infiltrate and not wait for the violence to happen.
The significance of these arrests yesterday, you know, one, you don`t have to be in the Capitol beating somebody up to be arrested for one of the most serious crimes in America. Everybody should be concerned about in terms of planning right away from the Capitol. Secondly, someone is going to flip and they`re going to talk about why they needed that crowd, why they knew they could pull this off and who sent the crowd to the Capitol to fight.
REID: Yes, absolutely. And I think I said Montana, I meant Nevada, or out west, whatever, all out west, but, yes. Maya Wiley, Frank Figliuzzi, thank you both very much, important conversation.
Up next on THE REIDOUT, Kevin McCarthy is the latest Republican to run and hide screaming from the January 6th select committee. Committee Member Jamie Raskin joins me on that and on his new book, Unthinkable Trauma, Truth and the Trials of American Democracy.
Plus, what is next for the Biden agenda as Democrats face a wall of obstruction from their right flank. Manchin and Sinema.
And tonight`s absolute worst is a first timer, but given her hypocrisy and racist dog whistles, it probably won`t be her last appearance.
THE REIDOUT continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:58]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Kevin McCarthy. Where`s Kevin?
There`s my Kevin.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Kevin is great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: "My Kevin."
From the very start, Kevin McCarthy is proven to be an inanimate object who exists solely for orange Julius Caesar to play with. Kevin followed Trump around like a little puppy dog on a leash trying to appease him. We all remember how Kevin had a staffer take the time to pick out just the right color Starbursts to put in a jar so he could give it to Trump as a present.
Throughout the last five years, he`s done just about everything to keep the Florida man and his MAGA lemmings happy, with the hope that he could one day become a real boy.
Just like that trained dog who occasionally pees in the House, though, McCarthy apparently had an accident on January 6 and in the days that followed, when he talked about the phone calls that he had with his dear leader.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I say he has responsibility. He told me personally that he does have some responsibility. I think a lot of people do.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
REID: Of course, on that same day, Trump had a very different take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: What is your role in what happened at the Capitol? What is your personal responsibility?
TRUMP: So, if you read my speech, and many people have done it -- and I have seen it both in the papers and in the media, on television -- it`s been analyzed, and people thought that what I said was totally appropriate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: And at no point has Trump publicly acknowledged what he supposedly told Kevin, nor has he taken any responsibility for the insurrection.
So, you see, because of insights like that, the January 6 Select Committee has asked to speak with McCarthy. But with Trump`s leash tightly wrapped around his neck, Kevin is following other Trumpian sycophants and refusing to speak up, leaving the committee to decide whether a subpoena is an order.
"The Washington Post" editorial board put it best -- quote -- "Subpoenaing the minority leader would be unprecedented, but his behavior amounts to a dereliction of his oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. In his quest to become the next GOP House speaker, Mr. McCarthy has instead thrown in his lot with the enemies of democracy.
[19:25:01]
Joining me now is Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He`s a member of the House Select Committee on the January 6 Attack and the author of the new book "Unthinkable: Trauma, Truth, and the Trials of American Democracy."
Never has a book been so aptly named and so timely, Congressman. Thank you so much for being here.
So, I just want to get your sense, as somebody who I have been blessed to have on this show and my previous weekend show a lot. And you`re a great sort of constitutionalist. You`re great at talking about the way our system is supposed to work and sort of digging into the minutiae of it.
For somebody like you, who has such clear reverence for the constitutional -- and the framework, what do you make of Kevin McCarthy`s absolute obedience to a former president and his refusal to speak with the commission that`s trying to get to the bottom of what happened to him, and to you and to this country?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Well, thank you for having me, Joy.
It is a scandal, of course. And before we talk about the legal dimension, we really do have to talk about the moral dimension. I mean, it`s a sign of how degraded our political discourse has become that we immediately get to the question of, will we subpoena him? Do we have the right to subpoena him? Can he get out of the subpoena?
What about just the pure morality of the situation? Our government, our Congress, the Congress he serves in as a leader, was attacked by violent insurrectionists. There was an attempt to overthrow the results of a presidential election. This was a seditious conspiracy, indeed, at least one of them, if not multiple of them.
And we have a leader of the Republican Caucus in the House of Representatives who is hiding under his bed. He`s refusing to come and speak about it, when, of course, he said, of course, he would before. He said, sure, he will come and testify.
And his own statements came into the Senate impeachment trial through Republican Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler, who McCarthy told he had called Donald Trump on January 6, essentially to say, help us, save us from this. And Trump said, oh, it`s not my people. It`s not MAGA. It`s Antifa.
REID: Yes.
RASKIN: And, at that point, McCarthy said, no, it`s not Antifa. It`s your people. And you got to save us.
And then Trump, of course, famously said: Well, maybe they just care a little bit more about a fair election than you do, Kevin.
But he`s got to cover up the fact that he did the right thing in reacting like a human being, saying, call these dogs off. And now he`s got to cover it up, because they`re so sycophantic and submissive to this pathological leader, Donald Trump.
REID: Yes, I have called this sort of beta maledom. It`s sort of -- it`s a weird.
It`s a bit -- but Kevin McCarthy used to have a very different view about whether people ought to come before Congress when asked. Here is his talks about -- this is what he had to say about the Benghazi committee, which, you remember, there were like 11 different Benghazi hearings.
And here he is re: Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCARTHY: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she`s untrustable.
But no one would have known any of that had happened had we not fought and made that happen.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: I agree. That`s something good. I give you credit for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: That, of course, cost him his last opportunity to be speaker.
But do you think that Kevin McCarthy -- you know him, you have dealt with him for a while -- genuinely thinks that the January 6 Committee is trying to do to Republicans what he very -- admitted on TV that he wanted to do to Hillary Clinton, right? Do you think he genuinely thinks that the January 6 Committee isn`t real and that it`s just basically -- does he think that the people on the committee are like him, and that they`re doing what he`s doing, or do you think there`s some other motive?
RASKIN: No, he -- first of all, they understood how opportunistic and partisan they were in going after Hillary Clinton. And he confessed it in that embarrassing footage that you just showed right there.
But, look, Kevin McCarthy supported an independent outside commission to investigate January 6, with five Republicans, five Democrats, equal subpoena power, and we agreed to it. And then, when Donald Trump turned against it, saying he wanted no investigation of any kind, no matter how objective, no matter how bipartisan, at that point, McCarthy turned on a dime for his cult leader, and then opposed it.
And so he`s continued to try to sandbag our bipartisan investigation, which is making tremendous progress in unveiling the real facts of what took place on January 6 and the causes behind it.
REID: Yes.
Let me play for you, you. This is yourself.
And you were talking about just what you personally dealt with, because you were going through a lot. In this book -- and I have a copy of it here -- you talk about your own personal tragedy that you had to deal with in the midst of dealing with this national tragedy.
[19:30:11]
Let me just play a little bit of that and you talking about what you dealt with on January 6.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RASKIN: My youngest daughter, Tabitha, was there with me on Wednesday, January 6.
It was the day after we buried her brother, our son, Tommy, the saddest day of our lives. Also, there was my son-in-law, Hank. But the reason they came with me that Wednesday, January 6, was because they wanted to be together with me in the middle of a devastating week for our family.
And I told them I had to go back to work, because we were counting electoral votes that day, on January 6. It was our constitutional duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: It is difficult to kind of react in real time to ongoing tragedy. You have done a remarkable job.
And I will reissue my condolences to you and your family for your loss.
Why did you write this book at this time? Why did you relive this for all of us? And what will we learn from this?
RASKIN: Well, the book, Joy, was a labor of love for my son, Tommy, and I suppose it`s a kind of love letter to my son, but it`s a love letter to the country too and to the democracy that I love.
And my family and I faced these twin traumas that came right upon each other, one a private family trauma with the loss of our beloved Tommy, and the other the assault on our democracy, the attempted coup on January the 6th.
And it was a sleepless year for me. I wasn`t sleeping anyway. And I basically figured I could spend the rest of my life obsessed with these events, or I could try to record in painstaking detail exactly what had happened, both with Tombo, and then also on January 6, and then also as the lead impeachment manager, putting the team together and organizing the case against Donald Trump for inciting a violent insurrection against the union.
And so, that, I did. It took me about five months to write the book, but my heart is in that book. And I have basically dedicated myself now to trying to save our democracy against this right-wing authoritarianism, this fascism and white nationalism and racism that has been set loose in the country against our democratic institutions, against our democratic values.
So I`m carrying on in the memory and in the spirit of my son, and also for my family and for my beloved constituents in Maryland`s 8th District and for Americans across the country who love our democracy.
REID: Absolutely.
Well, I thank you. Blessings to you and your family. And thank you for all that you do to try to save this democracy. It ain`t easy work. And thank you for sharing your heart with us tonight.
Have a wonderful weekend.
Thank you, Jamie Raskin, Congressman Jamie Raskin. Cheers.
RASKIN: The pleasure is mine. Thank you, Joy.
REID: Cheers.
All right, tune in on Sunday, all of you, please, on February 6, for the premiere of "Love & the Constitution" about Congressman Raskin`s struggle to save democracy and his personal tragedy with the loss of his beloved son, Tommy.
And coming up: Thirty million families are feeling the effects of the Manchin-Sinema wall of obstruction firsthand today, as monthly child tax payments come to an end.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:37:44]
REID: The Senate will vote on voting rights legislation, albeit later than expected.
Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has delayed a planned MLK Day vote until Tuesday. Schumer cited a snowstorm headed towards the nation`s capital, and not, say, the certain humiliation of losing a voting rights vote on King Day.
But, either way, winter isn`t coming. It`s already here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Welcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: The North remembers, except we have seen this wall before, the wall of obstruction from conservative Democratic Senators Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin, since the new Night King and Queen are frozen any plans to push through two voting bills, making clear they have zero intention of supporting changes to the Senate filibuster, in spite of President Biden`s call to do just that for voting legislation.
The president hosted the pair at the White House last night for what was termed a candid and respective -- respectful exchange of views on voting rights.
I`m joined now by Dean Obeidallah, MSNBC columnist host of the eponymous "Dean Obeidallah Show" on SiriusXM, and Bakari Sellers, civil rights attorney, former South Carolina state representative and author of "Who Are Your People?" his first children`s book.
And I love it when a book lets you come to these streets, Bakari. Nice to see you on this side.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Don`t make yourself too much at home, or make yourself very much at home.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Let`s talk about what`s going on in Washington.
I mean, Schumer is obviously delaying this vote because he doesn`t have the votes, and they don`t want to embarrass everyone on King Day. But in your view, just looking at this as somebody who`s been very much involved in sort of the political world, what`s the point of having this vote on Tuesday?
Is it just to make them have the debate?
BAKARI SELLERS, AUTHOR, "WHO ARE YOUR PEOPLE?": It`s twofold.
I think it`s to make them have the debate. And I think it`s to put our friends on front street. I mean, the fact is, as we celebrate King Day, we have to remember that king said, it`s not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
And the fact that the Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema -- and they`re not alone. I mean, they`re also speaking for Mark Kelly and Jon Tester and Chris Coons. Let`s be honest about this. I mean, the fact is, they want to be on the side of the Bull Connors, of the Lester Maddox, of the George Wallaces, the individuals who stood in the way of racial progress in this country.
[19:40:13]
And I had -- my twins just turned 3 last Friday. And it pains me to say that we`re still literally fighting for voting rights in this country. And it seems to be that the white moderate is that person that`s standing in the way of it.
REID: Yes, I think that they mean friends the way that uncle is like, that`s your friend`s friends. I`m not sure how much friends they really are really, honestly.
Dean, the other thing that we`re fighting all -- sort of all at once at the same time, is this issue of want, because the other thing that Joe Manchin did was stood in the way of Build Back Better, which, of course, means that those child tax credits that people had really come to rely on over the last couple years during the pandemic, poof, gone.
And in state like his that`s got a lot of poor folks, your thoughts on that?
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, MSNBC DAILY COLUMNIST: I think, first of all, we need to get -- this is my idea for Sinema and Manchin -- body doubles. They get by doubles to go in and cast the vote in favor of getting rid of the filibuster, because I`m out of ideas for these two.
They`re the Bonnie and Clyde of obstruction at this point.
Look, in West Virginia, the six highest poverty rate in the nation -- I was reading articles today, and West Virginia is saying, we`re going to lose this money; 35 million Americans are going to lose a monthly check, $300 for a kid. And they said, we have to tighten our belts, but we have already tightened it as much as we can.
Families were using this for groceries. Inflation affects the lower income even more painfully. So now he`s taking money from people in his own state, and he doesn`t care.
And that`s not what Democrats do. That`s what Republicans do. Same thing with Sinema and Manchin, on, if you`re going to preserve the filibuster over preserving our democracy, you`re not a Democrat. It`s that simple.
I have never said this before about a fellow Democrat, that you`re in the wrong party. But when it comes to preserving our democracy, that`s the red line.
REID: Yes.
OBEIDALLAH: Too many people have sacrificed and been killed for that right to vote to just filibuster it away.
REID: Yes, and also Bonnie and Clyde were more interesting.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Let`s go back to you, Bakari. We`re going to get a lot in this block, while we have the time.
Let`s talk about this Djokovic, Novak Djokovic. They have now been called risks to public health. Doctors have asked Spotify to pull segments of Joe Rogan`s show. Australia has said, no, get out, just leave. We don`t want you here.
What do you make of these high-profile people? Because they are really influencing folks to not get vaccinated. And that is spreading beyond MAGA, particularly onto a lot of African-Americans, young black folks who are refusing to get vaxxed.
SELLERS: I mean, it`s a tragedy.
I just had Dr. Fauci on my podcast today, and just trying to push back on a lot of the misinformation and disinformation that is coming out. And the troublesome part is, yes, it`s Joe Rogan, who has one of the largest podcast in the world. Yes, it`s Djokovic, who is the number one tennis player in the world. Yes, it`s Aaron Rodgers, who`s the front-runner for the NFL MVP.
But it`s also Ted Cruz, right? It`s actually people who we have in the halls of Congress who are sowing this type of distrust and misinformation as well.
REID: Yes.
SELLERS: Look, I don`t have any room to play with folk who want to go out here and push misinformation about something that can kill children, that can kill those who have these comorbidities, that can kill those who are immunosuppressed.
And so we need to make sure that the Joe Rogans of the world, that we amplify our platform to push back on them, because they`re going to be there. And, unfortunately, they`re wreaking havoc on impressionable minds.
REID: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Very quickly for you, Dean Obeidallah, John Katko, who voted to impeach Trump, he`s gone. He`s not seeking reelection. Thoughts?
OBEIDALLAH: Well, look, he`s -- there was 10 -- 10 Republicans voted for impeachment. Three are gone. The rest have been censured. They have gotten death threats.
The GOP is, loyalty to Trump, or you`re gone. That`s not a political party. That is a fascist movement. I was so glad to see Congressman Raskin use the term that we use Joy, fascism.
REID: Yes.
OBEIDALLAH: Because, folks, this is what fascism looks like.
REID: Yes, it is.
OBEIDALLAH: It`s not a joke. It`s not hyperbolic. It`s autocracy plus violence.
REID: Yes.
OBEIDALLAH: That`s today`s GOP.
REID: Absolutely.
Bakari, tell me about this book, because you have got little kids, so that is a great motivation to write a children`s book, but tell us what the book is about. What will we see in it?
SELLERS: Respectfully, I was tired of my kids seeing blue and purple people.
I wanted them to see themselves on the pages and the representation that`s there. It teaches us our history. It teaches us our culture, to be proud of it. It teaches us to dream. I`m a big believer in dreaming with your eyes open. And I think there`s more that we have in common than divides us.
And so this book is just a journey to go through our history in a way that we want to talk about race at this time, but also teach people that they can dream big dreams. And we ask the question, how are you going to change the world?
And Sadie in the book is the president, and Stokely is an astronaut. And I think it`s right for this moment.
REID: I absolutely love that.
And what -- I mean, what inspired you to write it? Is there a children`s book that your children love? I mean, do your -- and you have adorable kids, by the way. People who follow you on social media know your children are beautiful.
[19:45:01]
Is there something that inspired you specifically to do this?
SELLERS: Well...
REID: Because you have written before. You`re an author.
What -- is it just having these cute kids?
SELLERS: Yes.
No, I will -- we -- because me and you go way back in these streets, I will tell you and I will level-set with you.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: These streets.
SELLERS: This is the third favorite book. This ain`t even their favorite book.
They got a numbers book and a word book that they like more than they like daddy`s book with their pictures on the front.
(LAUGHTER)
SELLERS: But they inspired me.
I can honestly say Reggie Brown took their imagery, threw it in there. I want them to grow up and be able to understand that it`s -- nothing about this country`s irredeemable. We have to reimagine what they look like or what she looks like.
REID: Yes.
SELLERS: And so I want to reimagine what this country looks like. And I put those words on the page so they are proud of their history and proud of where we`re going in the future.
REID: Well, I will be buying copies to give to my friends who`ve got little kids, because my kids are big now, so they`re too big for a children`s book, but I will definitely give some away to friends that have little kids.
All right, Dean and Bakari, we`re not letting them get away. They`re staying with us, because guess what we`re going to do next after the break?
We`re going to brighten up your week by playing "Who Won the Week?"
But, first, it`s tonight`s "Absolute Worst." It was a tough call, you all, with so many worsts to choose from this week, but, yeah, I think we nailed it.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:15]
REID: Senator Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee is the poster child for the modern-day GOP, coup-defending, Fauci-trolling, someone who loves to red- bait every valid human need from health care to Social Security and access to child care.
About that, Blackburn once tweeted -- quote -- "You know else like universal day care," alongside an old article about day care existing in the former Soviet Union, because, yes, high-quality education and nutrition are all part of a treacherous communist plot. Who knew?
Like Kanye, Blackburn has a history of beefing with Taylor Swift. In her Netflix documentary, Swift called Blackburn Trump in a wig. Blackburn has since fired back a warning over the Breitbart airwaves that Swift will be the first victim when the Marxists take over America. It`s dumb.
But the reason we`re all talking about the Tennessee Republican tonight is because of how she questioned one of President Biden`s circuit court nominees. Andre Mathis, if confirmed, he would be the first black man to serve on the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals from Tennessee.
But there`s something about Mr. Mathis that makes the senator doubt his qualifications. She just doesn`t seem to like him. Hmm. I wonder what that might be.
Here she is grilling him about failures to appear in court following traffic citations all from a decade or more ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R-TN): It has been made public that he has a rap sheet with a laundry list of citations, including multiple failures to appear in court in Tennessee.
We expect our judges to respect the law, not disregard it. If Mr. Mathis thought he was above the law before, imagine how he will conduct himself if he`s confirmed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Senator, do you know what a rap sheet is? It stands for record of arrests and prosecutions. It does not describe three speeding tickets from a long time ago.
You know what else? One of those tickets was for going five miles over the speed limit. And yet, when it comes to Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who was accused by multiple women of sexual assault, Blackburn just can`t see what all the fuss is about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKBURN: We have spent enough time and money trashing a good man and his name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Rap sheet.
But this is when we in the news business like to say you just can`t make this stuff up, because, last year, Senator Blackburn herself was pulled over by Capitol Police, but she got out of it by flashing her congressional pin.
Republican hypocrisy is the "Absolute Worst." It just is. Put that on your rap sheet, Senator.
Stay with us. "Who Won the Week?" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:56:55]
REID: TGIF. Happy Friday. We finally made it to the end of another long week.
And now that means it`s time to play our favorite game, ah, yes, "Who Won the Week?"
Back with me, Dean Obeidallah and Bakari Sellers.
Dean, you are the veteran in this game, so I`m going to ask you to go first. Tell us, please, who won the week?
OBEIDALLAH: I would give it to Bakari for his book, to be honest.
SELLERS: Oh, my goodness.
OBEIDALLAH: I think the book was great.
But I can`t, because Republicans are going to ban it, calling it Critical Race Theory. So there`s nothing I can do about that.
Sorry, Bakari.
REID: Oh, that is about to happen. It`s like, black people on the cover, yes. Uh-huh.
OBEIDALLAH: That`s right. They just passed a law in Florida. Your book has been banned.
I`m sorry, Bakari.
REID: It`s likely.
OBEIDALLAH: But, in any event, I`m going to give it to Merrick Garland and the DOJ.
And it sounds weird because I have criticized Merrick Garland, but 11 people charged with seditious conspiracy, the Oath Keepers. And what I love about this, we`re getting closer to Trump. Two of the people charged yesterday were bodyguards for Roger Stone on January 5 and 6.
And in the charging documents, it talks about Oath Keepers talking in mid- December last year. They were going because Trump invited them with his tweet saying, come here, make it wild. And they said, yes, sir. We`re going to make it wild in their postings.
So we`re getting to the point, Joy, where we can say what I keep saying. Donald Trump is the Osama bin Laden of January 6. It`s a Trump production from start to end.
And, Merrick Garland, if you indict Trump, you will be my person of the year, of the decade.
REID: Yes.
OBEIDALLAH: So I give it to Merrick Garland.
REID: Merrick Garland.
Well, I`m not ready to go from calling him Merrick the mild to Merrick the magnificent yet, but I will go with Merrick the maybe he`s all right.
All right, let`s go to Bakari Sellers.
Who won the week?
SELLERS: Actually -- first of all, I love this game. That`s first.
Second, I agree with Dean, because Merrick -- I think people have to be patient with Merrick Garland. Look, the -- next are the organizers and the financiers, and then maybe some congresspeople, et cetera.
This week has been tough, because we`re not passing BBB, we`re not passing voting rights, we didn`t get criminal justice reform.
So the person that wins the week is Bakari Sellers and Reggie Brown. Duh.
You should have stayed there, Dean. This book...
(CROSSTALK)
OBEIDALLAH: ... give it to himself?
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: I can`t come on the show and not give myself the award.
There we go. Look at this. Look at...
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Listen, no one has ever awarded themselves "Who Won the Week?"
So you have set a new standard, my friend. That`s how you actually play when you want to win.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: Can I come back?
(CROSSTALK)
REID: OK? So I ain`t mad at you.
You can come back, yes. You can come back.
SELLERS: OK.
REID: But you got to think of somebody else. You can`t win the week every time. You got to change up.
OK, but let me just say, OK, so since Bakari`s book is now probably banned in Florida -- sorry -- because it is Critical Race Theory, it just is, I`m going to pick someone else who`s also Critical Race Theory and thus also banned.
So, you all, look at this, because you ain`t got to able to learn about it in school. In the state of Virginia, which has elected an opponent of, again, Critical Race Theory, fake Critical Race Theory, they have said that what students must actually learn includes the first debate between Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass and the writings of the founding fathers of the United States.
Melissa Murray tweeted: "Is this real? Are we actually living in a timeline where the legislature of Virginia is proposing to reform education by teaching its students that the Lincoln-Douglas debates featured Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass?"
Frederick Douglass, he`s doing a great job. He`s being recognized more and more. He won the week, because he`s always winning the week, until he gets banned by Florida because he`s Critical Race Theory.
Thank you, Dean Obeidallah, Bakari Sellers. You all are great.
Have a great weekend. Buy Bakari`s book for your kids.
And that is tonight`s REIDOUT.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.