Summary
Florida`s surgeon general nominee evades questions at confirmation hearing. Irish fishermen are going to confront the Russian navy. New Mexico`s state audit is investigating Otero County`s contract to audit the 2020 election.
Transcript
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST, "ALL IN": And everything you said about the legal standards as 100 percent true and important. He denies the allegations. But like a lot of times, that`s not enough, for someone politically.
Matt Gaetz seems to be riding this out. He`s in a very safe district. So, we`ll see what happens, but so far, he seems like he`s sitting tight.
Marc Caputo, thanks so much.
HAYES: That is "ALL IN" on this Thursday night.
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts right now.
Good evening, Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thanks, my friend. Much appreciated.
HAYES: Thanks.
MADDOW: And thanks to you at home for joining us. Really happy to have you here.
President Biden hosted departing Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer at the White House today. An event to basically formalize the announcement of Justice Breyer`s retirement. President Biden also invited Justice Breyer and his wife to come to sleep over in the Lincoln Bedroom sometime if they want to.
President Biden at the White House today reiterated his pledge to appoint an African American woman as his nominee to the Supreme Court for Justice Breyer`s seat. Even though other presidents including Ronald Reagan, including Donald Trump have made pledges of that kind to pick a specific demographic for the court. In Reagan`s case, he pledged in advance as a candidate that he would appoint the first women justice. President Trump also pledged that he would appoint a female justice to court, nevertheless conservative media and Republicans are tearing their hair out and pretending like nothing like this is ever happened before and they are so outraged that a Black woman is finally going to be nominated to the court.
President Biden pledged today that his nominee would be announced within a month by the end of February and so, now, the countdown begins. Now, we`ve got eyes on that story tonight as we will every night until we`ve got a nominee and beyond.
I also have to tell you because I know you, and we`ve also got eyes tonight on the story I know you most want to hear on tonight`s show. Big about what is happening with the irate Irish fishermen. The irate Irish fishermen we talked about on the show couple nights ago have decided that they were going to sail their fishing boats out into the middle of the Russian navy`s planned war games off the Irish coast next week.
As Russia continues its military buildup on the borders of Ukraine, taunting the NATO countries and menacing everyone with this threat, that they`re going to start a new war any day now, the Russian navy has announced are going to do a big live fire exercise right off the Irish coast, right near the nexus of a whole bunch of undersea communications tables, Internet cables, that the Russian navy has already been accused of messing with.
Ireland is not happy about these Russian war games plans for next week, particularly everything else that`s going on with Russia right now. The Irish prime minister has said that Russia should call off these war games. Russia says it absolutely will not and it will do as it pleases. But this small fleet of fishermen from county Cork, they say those Russian were games are planned right in the middle of where they fish this time of year for mackerel and for prawns, and frankly, they get their new prawn quota on Tuesday of next week.
And so, whether or not war games are going on at the time, they are going to head out there and fish. And the Russian navy better get out of their way.
As I said, we covered the story a couple of nights ago on the show. We heard more from more of you guys about that story than we`ve heard from you on almost anything else before covered in the last year. We got a huge response to that coverage from you guys.
We continue to have eyes on that story. Today, the Irish fishermen actually went to the Russian embassy in Dublin to like do diplomacy to tell the Russian government to stay away from their mackerel. Why these fishermen the people the world has to put in the pitch position to go nose to nose with Russian navy while Russia is about to start another war, I`m not quite sure how this -- how we -- I`m not sure how we ended up here as a world.
But we will have an update on how it`s going for the Irish fishermen in just a moment tonight. You`re definitely going to want to see that. So, all of that is coming up.
But we start tonight in the summer of 2020, the first summer in which we were dealing with the ravages of the COVID epidemic. And a sort of press conference stunt, the summer of 2020, a bunch of people got up on the steps of the United States Supreme Court and he gave a press conference. They wore white doctors` coats. The coats all had embroidered on them a little logo, America`s Frontline Doctors.
The point of that stunt that day was to tell the American people from this sort of official looking group, or at least medical looking group, that actually, COVID is no big deal. You definitely don`t need to stay socially distance from anyone else.
[21:05:04]
Businesses don`t need to school. Schools don`t need to close. Nobody needs to make any accommodation for the lives for it. We definitely don`t need to wear a mask.
None of those things will keep you from getting COVID. Everyone is lying to you when they tell you that those things will be the risk of COVID. And besides, even if you do get COVID, it`s no big deal because secretly, the government doesn`t want you to know this, but there`s a cure for COVID. Just take this anti malaria drug, hydroxychloroquine and maybe some zinc, and that`s the cure.
The government doesn`t want you to know there is a cure. The whole COVID thing is a hoax. Don`t be a sheeple, people! It`s all fine. That was a weird event in the summer of 2020.
One of the Americas Frontline Doctor speakers at that event is also known for her passion to claims that if you have ovarian cyst, that`s because you have been having sex with the demons in your sleep, which you should really stop doing, because once you stop having sex with demons in your sleep, that will fix your ovaries right up.
Also, generally, she says you should not trust Western medicine at all because it`s all based on DNA from space aliens. That said, white coat! And she says that she`s a frontline doctor so she must know what she`s talking about-ish. I mean, can you disprove the sex with demons thing? Can you?
Congress has since opened an investigation into America`s Frontline Doctors not because of that Supreme Court stunt, because after that, they appear to have morphed into a hard sell online grifter outfit where they set up what appeared to be bogus telemedicine appointments during which these doctors would mark it to you and then prescribe to you another fake COVID cure, the anti parasite drug ivermectin, which has no utility against COVID whatsoever. The group will take a hefty cut for the proceeds for their trouble. They appeared to have made potentially millions of dollars in their hard sell on ivermectin telemedicine appointments.
For all the COVID grifts and all the nonsense associated with this group, you might expect a congressional investigation, potentially of law enforcement investigation as well. You might not expect the leader of a state with one of the highest body counts from COVID to look to someone from that group to become the top health official in the state. You wouldn`t expect that.
But behold, Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida, that is exactly what he has done. A few months ago, Ron DeSantis chose this guy, a doctor named Joseph Ladapo, seen here at the 2020 America`s Frontline Doctors event outside the Supreme Court, Governor DeSantis chose him to be other new surgeon general of Florida. Despite, like, this.
Dr. Ladapo apparently endeared himself to Ron DeSantis with appearances not only like that but also appearances in conservative media, also a series of op-eds where he said that COVID isn`t so bad and you definitely shouldn`t wear a mask to avoid getting it. Since becoming surgeon general of Florida, Dr. Ladapo has done press conferences with Ron DeSantis where he has ominously questioned the safety of the vaccines, essentially encouraging people to not get them because they`re dangerous.
He also earned himself a brief moment of notoriety in the press for refusing to personally, himself, wear a mask while he was in a meeting with the state senator who had just been diagnosed with cancer. She asked him to please put on a mask because of her serious medical condition. He refused.
But one of the ways Dr. Ladapo rose to prominence and conservative media circles and to this top medical post in Florida that Governor Ron DeSantis put him in, was in large part on the basis of him staking his credibility on being a frontline doctor.
In his conservative media appearances and his op-eds, he presented himself as a frontline doctor who spent time as a physician treating many, many, many COVID patients. And his expertise and his matter was born out of the hard work he had experienced with all of his experience treating patients with COVID-19.
We reported exclusive a couple of months ago with evidence that calls this into question. Dr. Ladapo wrote two op-eds in national newspapers in 2020 claiming that he had spent time taking care of COVID patients, especially at UCLA`s flagship hospital.
This caught the attention of people who really did work at UCLA`s hospital treating COVID patients. Multiple people who worked at UCLA`s hospital at the same time as Dr. Ladapo said that he was misleading the public about his experience treating COVID patients there.
[21:10:01]
A member of the team treating COVID patients at UCLA told us that Dr. Ladapo was not part of that team.
We also obtained scheduling documents from the time Dr. Ladapo was working at UCLA. Those documents did not show Dr. Ladapo scheduled to take care of COVID patients at all.
We contacted the Florida department of health seeking comment from Dr. Ladapo multiple times when you first air this reporting, but we never heard back. We reached out again this week, and the press secretary for the Florida department of health responded by calling our request for comment, quote, cute. That was an actual quote.
Thanks for reaching out to ask about this unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. It`s cute that you`re asking for comment. This is a state government.
We then heard from the communications director at the Florida department of health, he confirmed that Dr. Ladapo did not treat COVID patients during much of 2020 when UCLA was running a COVID ward, but he claimed that Dr. Ladapo must have treated patients prior and also after that period. He told us, quote, I`m sure you can find documents that prove that if you`re finding other documents to promote your narrative.
Listen, we`re not trying to find documents to promote a narrative, we`re trying to figure out whether guy told the truth. And the thing is, we did try very hard to get hold of any documents that would prove that Dr. Ladapo treated COVID patients at UCLA, particularly given the word from other doctors who actually did treat patients at UCLA that he was never among them and they never saw him.
We have tried to find documents that would indicate that Dr. Ladapo treated patients at UCLA. We cannot find any such documents. Dr. Ladapo, nor -- neither Dr. Ladapo the Florida Department of Health has provided any such documents in response to our request.
And all the existing records that we can find indicate lots of other doctors treating COVID patients at UCLA`s hospital but not him.
One other thing to know about Dr. Ladapo is that he has not yet been confirmed into this post as Florida`s surgeon general. Governor DeSantis put him up for the job months ago and he has essentially been functioning as Florida surgeon general for the last several months, but he does ultimately have to be confirmed by the State Senate in Florida.
Yesterday, he appeared before the Florida Senate for his confirmation hearing, and it was -- it was -- it was something.
(BGEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE SEN. LAUREN BOOK (D), FLORIDA: Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Dr. Ladapo for being with us today.
Do you believe vaccines work?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re recognized for a series of answers.
DR. JOSEPH LADAPO, SURGEON GENERAL NOMINEE: Thank you, thank you Senator.
I consider vaccines in the same way that I consider other medical therapies. What we care about clinically is whether they are safe and effective. And that is the lens through which I evaluate all medical therapies.
BOOK: Do you believe that vaccines in fighting against a pandemic like COVID-19 are effective?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re recognized.
LADAPO: Thank you for your question, Senator.
So, again, I would say that the question is a scientific one and it`s one that is answered with data. So, the -- the question -- the question is informed by data on, you know -- on specific outcomes, and specific -- specific therapies. So, that`s -- that`s -- that`s the scientific question.
BOOK: Mr. Chair, just a couple of more follow-ups.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re recognized.
BOOK: Just a yes or no, do vaccines work in fighting against COVID-19. Yes or no?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are recognized.
LADAPO: Senator, I -- just -- I -- as a scientist, you know, I -- I am compelled to answer a scientific question. And I will be happy to answer any specific scientific question that you have related to vaccines and COVID-19.
BOOK: Scientifically, do vaccines -- do the vaccines work against preventing COVID-19. Yes or no?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are recognized.
LADAPO: OK. Thank you again, Senator. Yes or no questions are not that easy to find in science.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: That`s the Democratic leader of the Florida state senate, Senator Lauren Book, struggling valiantly to try to get an answer out of Governor Ron DeSantis`s handpicked surgeon general for the state of Florida.
[21:15:02]
Senator Book and her Democratic colleagues ultimately got up and walked out of that hearing, saying that they were fed up with a Dr. Ladapo`s refusal to offer any answers to the questions. After that confirmation hearing, "The Florida Sun-Sentinel" published this response from the paper`s editorial board.
Quote, Joseph Ladapo and his contrived evasiveness must go. Quote, Dr. Ladapo is an expert, all right. He`s masterful at dodging questions, insulting the intelligence of Floridians, and avoiding straight talk about the need to be vaccinated against COVID-19. I`m married to data, Ladapo told senators. The reality is that he is married to Governor DeSantis`s agenda to politicize the pandemic.
The doctor does not deserve to be confirmed as surgeon general, especially now that he has shown that he has so little respect for the people of Florida that he wouldn`t give them straight answers through their senators.
I mean, there are a lot of debates around the COVID-19 pandemic and our response to it and effective policies. And some of those debates are absolutely worthwhile. It is after all a novel coronavirus. And so, therefore, we learn more about it scientifically as we move on in time and we live with it for longer.
Some of those debates are absolutely worthwhile, but some of them are ridiculous. And on the question of do the vaccines work, I don`t know? I don`t know? Seniors who are vaxxed are 50 times less likely to be hospitalized with COVID than seniors who aren`t. Fifty times. That`s not statistically significant for you?
I mean, not to be weird, but even Donald Trump says that the vaccines work. The vaccines work.
But the surgeon general of Florida cannot bring himself to say that. That`s apparently a bridge too far for the state`s top doctor. Someone should probably check in with him to see where he thinks ovarian cysts come from.
But, you know, it`s possible that all of this goes some way towards explaining the latest of COVID related insanity coming from Florida`s government. And the way that Republican government is going right now, things that originate in Florida`s Republican government with Governor Ron DeSantis, have a way of spreading around the world, spreading to other Republican states.
And so, it`s worth noting this controversy over his top health official. It`s also worth noting and watching out for other states to emulate Governor DeSantis on what happened there this week. This week, Governor DeSantis released this furious tirade against the Biden administration, blasting President Biden and the administration for stopping shipments of two monoclonal antibody treatments for COVID. Governor DeSantis called that a sudden and reckless decision, and accuse the Biden administration of basically killing people, blocking lifesaving treatments. He said that he`s going to fight back against this decision.
What is so strange about this explosion of rage from Florida`s governor, Ron DeSantis, is that the reason the federal government stop sending those two particular monoclonal antibody treatments to Florida and all the other states in the country is that those two monoclonal antibodies do not work against the omicron variant. Those two monoclonal antibodies have been a fantastic treatment for previous variants of COVID. They have saved lots, and lots, of lives.
But they don`t work against omicron. Omicron has mutated in such a way that is not susceptible to those treatments. The drugmakers themselves say that they have done the tests and those monoclonal antibody treatments don`t work against omicron. And omicron makes up 99 percent of new cases of COVID across the country, including Florida. You don`t have to be a chemist to understand this.
I mean, again, this is a simple thing, antibody drugs formulated with specificity to respond to this coronavirus. Then your mutation of the virus, the one that is 99 percent prevalent in the United States right now, that new mutation is not susceptible to these treatments from these two companies. It is not that hard to understand. If you are four years old and listening to me right now, you probably understand what I just said.
There is one monoclonal antibody from GlaxoSmithKline that does still work against omicron. That drug is unfortunately in very short supply right now, and they are struggling to make more of it as fast as they can. But from those other two companies, from Regeneron, and Eli Lilly, their antibody treatments, while they worked on earlier iterations of the coronavirus, they don`t work on the current one.
Again, this is easy. This is not even like math. This is like counting on your fingers territory.
But in Florida, they apparently cannot get that. Even before today, all this month, Governor Ron DeSantis has been on this cake about how many antibody treatment centers he`s open and how many doses of Regeneron, the one that doesn`t work against omicron, how many doses of Regeneron he has managed to secure for Floridians and how the Biden administration has sent enough and he`s demanding more.
[21:20:07]
He`s been doing this even though it`s been clear for weeks that these treatments don`t work against the omicron variant and the omicron variant has taken over.
A week ago, "The Daily Beast" summed it up with this accurate headline. Ron DeSantis opens antibodies centers that are useless against omicron. And Governor DeSantis surgeon general, Joseph Ladapo, has chimed in, too, saying, we should not just listen to people labeled as experts on these matters, he says he will personally continue using those antibody treatments on patients with omicron even though they are proven not to work against omicron.
Because, you know, it works so well with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, and I don`t know what`s the antidote is to use sex with demons, but I`m sure we`ve knit that in the bud now.
It`s a weird fight to pick right now in Florida. Under the leadership of Ron DeSantis and Joe Ladapo, Florida`s insisting that as a state government, they are going to do nothing to mitigate the spread of COVID whatsoever. And worse than that, they`re going to continue to spread out and misinformation about both vaccines and masks.
But they insist that they must be able to continue to give people monoclonal antibodies that literally do not work against the omicron variant which is COVID now. We are two years into this pandemic. This is wet passes for pandemic policy in our third most populous state.
And as I said, Republican politics are in such a state right now that what happens in Florida tends to spread to other red states as soon as it gets featured on Fox News or whatever.
Dr. Ladapo`s confirmation process to become officially the surgeon general of Florida, it is still not complete in Florida. He is due before the ethics committee next week. Perhaps at that next round of confirmation hearing, someone will ask him about his nonsensical claims about monoclonal antibodies. Perhaps somebody will ask him about his claims of treating COVID patients when it appears he had not.
Maybe that will pop the bubble here. Don`t hold your breath.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:26:25]
MADDOW: So here`s the statement, it`s from the Russian embassy, Russia`s embassy in the nation of Ireland. Quote, any attempts to interfere with military exercises would be, A, reckless and irresponsible act which could put in harm`s way both sailors and fishermen.
Starting next week as Russia keeps the world guessing as to whether another going to invade Ukraine start another war there, next week, Russia is planning big war games-style military exercises off the coast of Ireland. The Russian government issued that statement this week warning that no one should get in their way while they are doing these live fire exercises in the sea off the Irish coast.
That statement though was not meant for, like, the nation-state of Ireland overall. It was not a warning for Ireland`s navy. But it really was, was a warning for these guys, fishermen from County Cork who say they plan to disrupt Russia`s war game exercises next week which are scheduled to take place in the waters where the fish, where they make their living.
To say these fishermen are undeterred by Russia statement about the war games, that would be an understatement. Listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HOST: Are you aware of that, that the Russian embassy is saying, well, the Russian embassy is saying your behavior is reckless.
FISHERMAN: How is it reckless to go out and about and protest peacefully to say we -- you are not welcome in our waters. How is that reckless?
HOST: They`re saying it`s not your --
FISHERMAN: How`s that reckless? I`m not even going to entertain any Russian embassy or any ambassador whatsoever, Joe. I`ll tell you -- this is directly to that gentleman there.
HOST: Yeah, but --
FISHERMAN: If anybody tries to impede my freedom of movement in Irish waters --
HOST: Well, they`re international waters --
FISHERMAN: They`re going to be in trouble. They`re going to be in trouble.
HOST: I come back to the statement from the Russian ambassador. He said --
FISHERMAN: I have no relationship with the Russian ambassador. I`m a free citizen of Ireland. He has no authority over me, and I take his threats as an insult!
HOST: Well, he wouldn`t --
FISHERMAN: That`s my answer to him. Okay? That`s my answer to the Russian ambassador of Ireland. I take his threats as an insult and he should withdraw it.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MADDOW: I take his threats as an insult and he should withdraw it.
Yesterday, the Russian embassy in Ireland invited the Cork fishermen to come visits, to come to their embassy in Dublin and meet with the Russian ambassador to try to talk it out. The fisherman agreed to take the meeting.
Had I been him I`m not sure I would`ve. But he they went. The head of the Cork fisherman`s organization offered this preview of what he planned to tell the ambassador when he sat down with them face to face.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PATRICK MURPHY, CEO OF IRISH SOUTH AND WEST FISH PRODUCERSS ORGANISATION: Is it a fishing ground or is it a firing range?
HOST: Okay, well, what can the Russian ambassador say to you in the morning that will make you call off your flotilla?
MURPHY: We`re not calling off our flotilla, we are going out to fish, Joe. The fishermen are going to go fish in this area!
HOST: So, what are going to tell the Russian investor?
MURPHY: I`m going to explain to the Russian ambassador, this is where we fish. This is where we (INAUDIBLE) a fishery. And this is where we`re going to fish.
We are hoping that if they`re going to carry out an exercise, they will keep a safe distance from us, not the other way around. And if they feel that they need to come into our area where we`re fishing, our processes, we`re not moving.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MADDOW: Our protest is, we are not moving.
The small group of Irish fishermen, of course, they are not the only people in the world who are upset with Russia right now, as Russia uses its military to menace Europe.
[21:30:01]
But as far as Russia`s military exercises are around the edges of that threat go, it does seem like the fishermen in Ireland are the only ones who are doing anything about it. This is what`s ahead of the fissures organization told the local press in Cork, he said, quote, it is a bit funny that it is up to us, but we will take the opportunity to represent our fishermen at whatever level and whatever way we can.
Well, today, two representatives from the Irish fishermen did travel from court to Dublin to meet with the Russian ambassador of Ireland. They met at the embassy. The meeting lasted a little under an hour.
And by early accounts, they said the meeting went well. They came outside and they felt that the ambassador took their concerns seriously. They felt understood by him. They can do a compromise, an agreement, that Russia will create a sort of buffer zone between the fishing grounds and their war games, basically an agreement to share the waters out there next week. So everybody can do their jobs and no one will get hurt, we can all coexist.
The fisherman said Russia gave them a, quote, absolute guarantee that their fishing grounds would not be disrupted by Russia`s military exercises. The embassy even put up this photo of the two fishermen with the ambassador.
See, everybody`s getting along. Everything`s fine now. An absolute guarantee.
But -- well, I mean, here`s these fishermen, right? Why is it up to them to negotiate the terms of the Russian navy`s military exercises? And could the Russian government really be dealing with these guys and good faith about this? Expressing with the limits will be, with the buffers will, be the guarantee that they`re giving them about not disrupting anything.
I believe the fishermen when they say the ambassador gave them an absolute guarantee that the fishing grounds would not be disrupted. I believe the ambassador told them that. But then, of course, once the fishermen came out of the embassy and said that publicly the Russians claimed that no such thing had happened.
This is the headline in "The Irish Times". Quote: Russian embassy disputes claims of absolute guarantee to Irish fishermen on naval exercise impact.
These fishermen are fishermen! They`re not trained diplomats and Russia appears to try to take advantage of that. You know, immediately reneging on whatever promises they may have found in these guys in the room today. So, they`re yanking these guys` chains.
I`m sure they feel like, oh, these guys are just fishermen. Who cares? You know, all week as we`ve been covering the story, this back and forth between one of the most powerful navies on earth and these fishermen, one thing that`s state constant, these guys are very clear they`re not going to budge.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
FISHERMAN: I have no relationship with the Russian ambassador. I`m a free citizen of Ireland. He has no authority over me, and I take his threats as an insult!
HOST: Well, he wouldn`t --
FISHERMAN: That`s my answer to him. Okay? That`s my answer to the Russian ambassador of Ireland. I take his threats as an insult and he should withdraw it.
MURPHY: If they feel that they need to come into our area where we`re fishing, our protest is, we`re not moving.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: Our protest is, we`re not moving.
Russia`s military exercises are supposed to start on Thursday next week. The fisherman`s say, the prawn quota opens up on Tuesday, so we`re going to be out there on the water doing our job starting on Tuesday and we are not planning on moving, not for you.
We shall see. More ahead tonight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:37:29]
MADDOW: Otero County, New Mexico, the southern part of the state. It`s the third largest county in the state of New Mexico in terms of size, but it`s got a relatively small population. It`s about 70,000 residents. County seat is Alamogordo. You may know the name alum Alamogordo because it`s located near the side of the 1945 Trinity test which is where the U.S. Army conducted the world`s first ever nuclear explosion. Hello.
In the 2020 presidential election, New Mexico overall went for Joe Biden by a pretty good margin, by about 11 points. But in Otero County, Trump won. Trump carried Otero County by our nearly 2 to 1 margin, won by more than 25 points there.
Apparently, that 25 point margin was not a big enough margin for Trump fans in Otero County. Earlier this month, the county commissioners their decided they would authorize and after the fact audit of the county`s 2020 election results. This is the same kind of thing the Republicans of done in Arizona, and Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.
I should note that one of the county commissioners who voted for the audit has himself been indicted for breaching the Capitol on January 6th and all three Otero County commissions shows a company to run this audit that is led by an election conspiracy theorist who claims to have invented email and who claims that the way the election was stolen was that in every single state in 2020, Trump`s share of the vote was reduced by exactly 4.2 percent. He knows this is how they did it, because he learned this from a close contextual reading of the 1970s sci-fi comedy classic, the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. That had the secret to stealing the election.
The Otero County commissioner -- over the objections of the county attorney, they decided it was definitely worth spending nearly $15,000 and taxpayer funds to have that guy and his company conduct an audit of the election results in the county that Trump carried over by 25 points.
Well, this week we learned from "Alamogordo Daily News", that the state auditor of New Mexico has opened a new investigation into how the county awarded that contract. Quote: New Mexico state auditor Brian Colon`s office confirmed it opened a special examination over an agreement between Otero County and a firm to audit the results of the 2020 election, asserting that the contract could violate state procurement laws.
Joining us now is New Mexico state auditor, Brian Colon, whose office is looking into the contract in Otero County.
Mr. Colon, thanks very much for joining us tonight.
[21:40:01]
BRIAN COLON, NEW MEXICO STATE AUDITOR: It`s great to be with you, Rachel. Thanks for having me.
MADDOW: Did I get any of that wrong or is that any part of this that`s important to the story that I left out?
COLON: No, Rachel, I think you got it just exactly right. I didn`t know much about the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy from the story, but I think it`s excellent framing.
MADDOW: What prompted you and your office to open an inquiry over this contract? What sort of responsibility do you have for this type of county level expenditure?
COLON: You know, the beauty in New Mexico, we do have the office of the state auditor that oversees and audits government transactions and the expenditures of the taxpayers resources in our state. The important evasions we have at the office of the state of the resort special investigation divisions. And that`s really driven by engagement with the public when they have concerns about waste, fraud and abuse.
And in fact, this initial examination was open due to a whistleblower who anonymously provided a complaint to our office about this expenditure. When we did do a review, we determined it was appropriate to open up an investigation exam on this particular transaction. We`re gathering data now, but I will tell you that my job is to restore people`s faith in government. I`m not sure that`s what`s going on in Otero County right now.
MADDOW: We`ve seen a number of these investigations, including a number of them that involved this election conspiracy theorists whose company appears to be -- the company that`s going to be awarded this contract in the county, we`ve seen this in a number of other states and we`ve seen people all over the country and elected officials such as yourself and the states lament that these audits are unscientific, not keeping with U.S. practices, designed to essentially make people have doubts about the election and that they should not have doubts about.
Is that part of what is motivating this investigation, or are those concerns by the potential impact of an audit like this? Separate and apart from the type of investigation your office is doing into what kind of expenditure this is?
COLON: You know, for us, every dollar in New Mexico, particular rural New Mexico is important to the taxpayers. And we`re going to make sure that there is not any waste, fraud or abuse. You know, we have elected officials who are abusing power potentially, we hold them accountable with these investigations and in our findings. We`ve had experience in Otero County where the county commissioner was overreaching. And we did do an investigation and we found that there were inappropriate expenditures.
That kind of commissioner had to give money back to the taxpayers of Otero County. Now, we have this concern advanced by the county commissioner in Otero County. Now for me, when I always have to look at is, is this transaction in the best interest of taxpayers? In this particular concern, you`ve got to wonder whether this has to do with the personal agenda and that`s going to be part of the question. What drove this transaction? Was it appropriate, legal, and compliant with all our codes, regulations and procurement process?
And then, what`s in the best interest of the taxpayers or was this the situation where we really had wasted government, of this audit, there`s already been an audit on this election bipartisan panel. The question is, is it appropriate to spend another $50,000 to audit the election or is the personal agenda driving the decision?
You got an attorney for the county that advised against it, and then the commission certainly can act against attorney`s guidance, but in this case we are going to do a full and complete investigation and make sure that dollar was misspent or spent without the appropriate process. That`s my job. I do it every day. We do it for all 33 counties of New Mexico.
MADDOW: New Mexico State Auditor Brian Colon, thank you for helping us understand this. It is -- again, this is a situation that we have seen a different reiteration of in a number of different states. Your investigation at the county level is something unique we`ve never seen in other places. We look forward to staying apprise on the progress on your investigation. Thank you, sir.
COLON: We look forward to staying in test. No one`s above the law in New Mexico and we`re going to hold everyone of them accountable. Thank you.
MADDOW: Indeed. Thank, you sir.
All right. We`ll be right back. Stay with us.
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[21:48:19]
MADDOW: Thanks to the greatness and goodness of America`s public records laws, we just obtained documents that illuminate a we are dead and in the ongoing scandal about these fake election documents Republicans created in multiple states to try to cast faked electoral college votes for Donald Trump. One of the odd quirks in the story is that in the state of Arizona, Republicans there created not one, but two different sets of forged elector paperwork. One of them looks identical to the fake documents that were also sign and submitted from five other states. That one Arizona forgery looks like the forged documents from Georgia, Nevada, Michigan, Wisconsin.
But the second state of forged documents sent in by Arizona Republicans look different. It was phrased differently, the font was different. They had a notary, officially notarized every signature on it. It had the Arizona state seal all over it, trying to make it look like an official state document which it was not. It was just different from the other ones.
Well, now, look at this. We know the Arizona Republicans didn`t just create that document for themselves to fantasize about the real electors. They mailed in that forgery to the National Archives in Washington. We actually have the envelope that they sense it in.
They sent it in priority -- it cost him $26.35, it was a good deal. We also know that they mailed it into the National Archives because we know at the national archives did when they receive this envelope containing the forged document. We have an email from the national archives to Doug Ducey`s office, quote, shame for your awareness that we receive this moment an unofficial Arizona certificate of ascertainment from an Arizona Sovereign Citizens Group.
[21:50:03]
Governor Ducey`s office wrote back to the National Archives that day: Hi, thank you for sharing. Quote, I presume that you will not accept or pose this an official certificate because, among under things, it does not meet the requirements under federal law. Can you please confirm?
Arizona Governor Doug Ducey actually said this week that he had no idea that this fake electors thing had been going on in Arizona at all until a press about it recently. We know that his office at the time was directly in touch with the National Archives about these fake documents and telling the National Archives not to accept them. So that`s kind of strange credulity.
But regardless, a week and a half after that exchange back in December between the Governor Ducey`s office and the National Archives, a week and a half after that exchange, the cops showed up. A special agent in charge at the investigations office at the National Archives wrote back to the Arizona governor`s office, again, a week and a half later: Hello, I am writing from the National Archives Office of Inspector General, office of investigations. We are aware that the Office of Federal Registry receive an unofficial certificate of ascertain from the sovereign citizens group in Arizona, which you were notified of. They were, in fact, notified of that.
Quote, we are looking into this matter to determine if any violations or election fraud were committed. And wanted to know if your office was looking into this further or otherwise refer to it to other local or federal law enforcement agencies. In other words, that`s the federal investigators on the beat at the national archives saying, we are starting a federal investigation of this matter, we need to know if there is a state investigation to so we can deconflict. So we don`t step on each other`s toes.
Governor Ducey`s office responded to that saying, it is our understanding that the secretary of state`s office has notified the appropriate authorities. OK. Then, the secretary of state`s office chime in, yes, we are referring it to the Arizona attorney general`s office for potential prosecution, quote, for enforcement of the unauthorized use of the state seal and any other potential violations of state law.
And indeed, they made that formal referral. Here`s the letter: Arizona secretary of state writing to the person who sent in the fake electors documents saying, number one, stop using the state seal, it`s illegal. And number two, we`re referring you to the attorney generals office for potential prosecution. The following day, on December 23rd, we`ve got the secretary of state making that formal criminal referral to the A.G.`s office. And it`s a very straightforward thing.
We received these documents from the Arizona residents, purporting to the official state documents using the official state seal. These were not real official documents, use of the state seal by anybody not authorized to use it is a crime in Arizona. Here`s all the material, this is a crime, please proceed, Mr. Attorney General.
That formal criminal referral was made to the other zone attorney general`s office December 23rd, 2020. It was more than a year ago. Since then, nothing.
So, there`s two questions here. One of them is about the federal cops on the beat here, right? Why did federal investigations at the National Archives only open an investigation into one of the two fake slates of electors they received from Arizona?
Sure, that came first, but a few days later, when a second set of fake elector documents came from Arizona and a bunch of other states, why wasn`t a federal investigation launched into those as well? Or was it? We are trying to find out. We will let you know as soon as we have figured it out.
But also, in this situation in Arizona, I mean, again, they had to fake electors slates from two different sets of Republicans in Arizona. And this one but the states seal on it was sort of a special case, kind of an open and shut case, using a states seal on a forged document is it`s own crime.
And here`s the secretary of state`s office saying, hi, attorney general, crime here, please prosecute. That was over a year ago, so far, nothing. What happened but this at the attorney generals office in Arizona? Why did this dead-end there?
Well, let`s turn to local journalists in Arizona to see what they think.
Laurie Roberts writing this week for "The Arizona Republic". Quote: Anyone waiting breathlessly for Attorney General Mark Brnovich to launch an investigation into the fake Trump electors who participated in the scheme to overturn Arizona`s vote should wait no longer. Brnovich is a latest fund raising plea makes it abundantly clear that he has no intention of actually doing his job.
And then she shows this recent fundraising gambit from the attorney general. Are you really going to ignore President Trump? We thought he could count on you, Brnovich says in this fund-raiser making the rounds to Republicans on Facebook. Quote, this is your last chance to help flip Arizona and take back the Senate! Don`t miss your chance to be on Trump`s team!
Laurie Roberts continues, quote, set aside for a second that this fundraising plea is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth.
[21:55:02]
Trump hasn`t endorsed Brnovich in Arizona, and in fact, through a fund- raiser for one of Brnovich`s opponents. Brnovich is in a crowded Republican race for the Senate, a race in which every candidate is competing to be anointed by Trump for the job. But Trump has not endorsed anyone in the Senate race.
Brnovich should be investigating the phony Trump electors who on December 2020 signed a document of vowing that they represented the true electoral votes from Arizona. They sent it by registered mail to the U.S. Senate in the National Archives.
Fortunately, federal investigators are looking into it, but shouldn`t the state`s prosecutor have at least a passing interest in such a blatant scheme carried out right under his nose? Roberts continues, quote, it seems painfully clear that you can`t be both the attorney general of Arizona, in charge of investigating all aspects of the 2020 election, and a Senate candidate who was chasing Trump`s endorsement. At least, you shouldn`t be.
The conflict of interest is oh so clearly evidence in Brnovich`s latest fund raising plea. Brnovich`s heart may lie with Trump, but his obligation remains to the people of Arizona. He should resign.
That`s from "The Arizona Republic" today. Calls for the Arizona attorney general to resign if, among other things, he`s not going to prosecute the state`s fake electors.
And I`m -- I`m not close enough to Arizona politics of the likelihood of any resignation here, I`m guessing it`s not going to happen. But if you`re wondering why there is a need for a federal investigation if you`re wondering why the U.S. Justice Department now says they are investigating - - well, this kind of mishegoss in the states might help explain why that`s needed.
In this case, no action for more than a year, even in the most clear cut imaginable case where state law was definitely, for sure, no doubt about it, broken.
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MADDOW: All right. That`s going to do it for us tonight. Ayman Mohyeldin will be in here for me tomorrow night. And I`ll see you again on Monday I promise.
Now, it is time for "THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL."
Good evening, Lawrence.