Summary
Today, members of the Electoral College met across the country to formally cast their ballots. Today is the first day of early voting in the Georgia Senate runoff. President-Elect Joe Biden addresses the nation after his Electoral College victory. President Donald Trump tweets that Attorney General Bill Barr has resigned. The U.S. begins its largest vaccination effort in history.
Transcript
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Claire McCaskill, Michael Steele, thank you very much. I really appreciate you guys tonight. That is tonight's REIDOUT. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" is up right now. Chris?
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Thank you so much, Joy. I really appreciate it. Nice to see you in person. Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. It has been a really remarkable day of news. We just heard President-Elect Joe Biden delivering a speech in Wilmington, Delaware on a truly significant day, as we're right now looking to turn the page on the two biggest stories of this brutal, brutal year.
So, today, members of the Electoral College met across the country to formally cast their ballots. Now, this happens every four years. This is usually a pro forma thing that's not really covered. It happens in the background because the loser of the election by this point has already conceded and everyone has accepted the peaceful transfer of power.
But because the President and his party have posed an unprecedented nearly challenge to the peaceful transfer of power, we have been following and covering in minutiae, the guts of the Electoral College system. This was the moment that the California delegation voted, putting Joe Biden over the 270-vote threshold to officially become President-Elect.
You can see there, on the last hurdles in finalizing the election results coming after nearly six weeks of desperate attempts by the President and members of his party to -- well, to straight-up overturn the outcome, to prevent the people from deciding who their elected leaders would be.
So, that was one of the parts of the split-screen today which felt kind of like a season, for now, all day because the other part of the split-screen that was happening at the same time was also vaccine D day in the United States. And I got to say, I have been anticipating and thinking about this, obviously covering it for months. I still cannot get enough of this footage. I just want to watch shots going in arms all day long.
The first doses of the Pfizer vaccine just approved by the Food and Drug Administration on Friday night being administered, as you see here, to frontline health care workers across the country. It's a sign of light at the end of the tunnel as we also hit a very, very dark moment in the pandemic. We crossed 300,000 American deaths from the coronavirus.
We mourn their loss. We try to figure out how to hold on until brighter days ahead as the President-Elect said tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, our nation passed a grim milestone, 300,000 deaths to this COVID virus. My heart goes out to each of you in this dark winter of the pandemic. We're about to spend the holidays and the new year with a black hole in your hearts without the ones you loved at your side. My heart goes out to all of you who have fallen on hard times through no fault of your own, unable to sleep at night, staring at the ceiling, and weighed down by the worry of what tomorrow will bring for you and equally important for your family.
But we face difficult times before in our history. I know we'll get through this one, but together. That's how we get through it, together. So, as we start the hard work to be done, may this moment give us the strength to rebuild this house of ours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Vice President Joe Biden who has a very, very large task of rebuilding ahead of him, as we move in this inflection point, as we market the Electoral College voting and certifying that Joe Biden will be the next president. It's something we've known even if it's been denied by some of the most powerful people in the country. And also those shots going into arms and the possibility of a 2021 that looks markedly better than 2020.
Stacey Abrams has been a senior force for energizing Democrats in the state of Georgia. And today, she was one of those people that you see in this footage, again, the footage that we never see, right, the meeting of the electors. She was an elector for Joe Biden in the state that she helped turn blue. And we're glad she's here to talk about it all tonight.
Stacey, it's great to have you on the program. You know, it's strange, right? We shouldn't in some senses be covering this. We shouldn't be in the position where these moments are anything more than kind of pro forma ritual. It is because of this implacable opposition by the president, the denialism, the attempts to overturn the election that we are. And yet, it was -- it was sort of remarkable to watch it today. What was it like to be there? What is the actual convening of it like? It's something that is in the Constitution, but we don't actually get to see often.
STACEY ABRAMS, FOUNDER, FAIR FIGHT ACTION: It's thrilling. I mean, to do this in a state like Georgia where the last person who participated in that process. Calvin Smyre, who is the Dean of the House of Representatives, the longest-serving member, the longest-serving member, he was there in 1992. And it took 28 years to do it again.
For me, it was just a moment of relief. This moment we finally reached after three recounts and audits and, you know, a number of lawsuits. These lawsuits are fine. But what we really needed was the certainty that the decision would hold. And today was that moment for so many Americans.
HAYES: What -- I'm curious to hear you characterize what has happened in Georgia since election night because I think there's a number of different stories. There's the stories of the folks that have mobilized so effectively and are mobilizing now in advance, of course, of that runoff.
There are Republican elected officials who it seems to me have acted with a notable integrity and have held the line. And then there's a faction of the state party that really has appear to attempt to help the president with the stealing of the election. What's your understanding of what's unfolded over these last six weeks or so?
ABRAMS: It's been sometimes a comedy of errors, but also just a dark reminder of how much democracy is a theory. We have to work to maintain it. We have to fight to keep it. It is not -- it's not implacable. It is not permanent. Just as we were meeting upstairs having this conversation, casting these votes as the certified electors, there was a meeting happening downstairs of sort of a romp party of Republicans led by the Republican Party state chair. They were creating themselves -- they were creating themselves an alternate reality of electors.
But what is so important is that Georgia understands the outcome, that we delivered these votes, that we are part of a larger fabric of our nation, and that it takes every state and every person in the states to fight for what we call our democracy. I've been chastised by some who don't listen, that when I fought in 2018 that is somehow analogous to today that there could be nothing further from the truth.
I fought to ensure that every single vote could be counted even though I knew it would not necessarily change the outcome for me. And what we have watched Republicans do, unfortunately, in these -- not just the suits, but in their allegations, is they're trying to strip people of their rights, strip people of their voices in order to make Donald Trump be president again.
That's not how democracy works and that's not how our nation works. And today was an affirmation that we can still do it right.
HAYES: You know, what's been striking to me about the conversation in Georgia specifically, and I -- it actually relates the rest of the country is. If there was a state that had gone for Democrats for a while, like say, what happened in Michigan right? After Michigan flips in 2016, there's a huge amount of debate among political observers, political professional, elected, what happened, what went wrong, what is the Democratic Party Michigan have to do.
As far as I can tell, I just haven't seen any data out of Georgia. Instead, it's been this denial, dead-ender kind of approach and an approach from Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue to essentially just ride the Trump train, even though it manifestly didn't work in 2020. And is anyone having a conversation there about maybe trying something different?
ABRAMS: I think the challenge for the Republican Party is to be introspective you have to admit where you are. And to admit the Democrats won Georgia means that Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue are not shoo-ins in this upcoming election. It means that the state legislature, even though it will go through redistricting under Republican leadership in 2021, that they cannot draw themselves the supermajorities that they enjoyed in the Senate in the last round.
It's going to require not just introspection, but likely a realignment and they're not ready to do that. It's the same place Democrats were in when we started losing power. And the reality is that the way to win that power is not to scheme your way into success, it is to do the work.
That's why we are standing four-square behind Raphael Warnock and John Ossoff because they are emblematic of what Democrats have done over the last 20 years to build power, and that is talk to people, build a diverse party, engage on the issues, and make certain that we are sending people forward who actually stand for the values of our state and the values of our people.
HAYES: Here's someone who is a fairly optimistic person, realistic, clear-eyed but optimistic. And we've had conversations through the years about your vision. I mean, how are you feeling right now in this moment? I have to say that I have watched the spectacle over the last six weeks with a profound sense of alarm about what it indicates. I think you heard the vice president -- the President-Elect Joe Biden tonight just talk about what was signified, what was embodied in that lawsuit that so many Republicans joined to essentially overturn the election, to install a non-democratically elected ruler. How are you feeling about where the country finds itself at this moment?
ABRAMS: I'm hopeful. I watched not only Georgia fight back against entrenched voter suppression, it happened across the country. We sort of alighted that conversation because Georgia was so startling in turning blue. But we watched Michigan and Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Arizona push back against voter suppression that worked in the previous election. And this time it didn't, because people came together in those states, worked with their elections officials, and got good done to make certain that voters could be heard.
We have proven in this election cycle that we are capable of better, that we can meet the challenge of populist autocracy and we can fight back, and we can win. But what I hope we remember is that these victories are not permanent. That's why it's so critical that we send two new legislators to Washington D.C. in the form of John Ossoff and Raphael Warnock to pass the laws we need to actually start restoring our democracy. This cannot be left to chance.
And we know that Mitch McConnell has a vested interest in not only burning the house down but protect -- blocking the firefighters from coming to save us. He doesn't want better. He doesn't want more. And unfortunately, Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue are happy standing next to him holding the matches.
HAYES: Stacey Abrams, who is there in Georgia State that is the center of the political universe for a few more weeks, at the very least, thank you for making the time on such an important day.
ABRAMS: Thank you for having me.
HAYES: For more on what the President-Elect had to say tonight, what kind of opposition he may meet, I'm joined by former Senator Barbara Boxer of California, now an advisor to the University of Southern California Center for the Political Future. And Adam Jentleson, former Deputy Chief of Staff to Senator Harry Reid, now the Public Affairs Director of Democracy Forward which works to uncover government corruption. It's great to have you both.
Senator Boxer, let me -- let me start with you. I thought the note that the President-Elect struck tonight was interesting insofar as there was a few things he seemed to be trying to do, rebut the nonsense as economically as he could and, you know, extend his hand to people that voted for his opponent. But he also had some fire, I think, for that lawsuit, which I wasn't necessarily expecting.
What do you think the sort of way that he and folks around him in the Democratic Party view the opposition right now?
BARBARA BOXER, FORMER SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA: I think what you saw in Joe is who he really is. I mean, he speaks from the heart. You saw the empathy; you saw the anger. It's not -- you know, he's not losing control in saying they're stealing our democracy. But this man is a teacher of the Constitution. And he understands how threatened this constitution and this country was from the likes of Donald Trump.
So, I think we're going to speak the truth. But here's the deal. He's got to face this pandemic. He's got to do what he did tonight continually, which is to reach out to everyone the people who voted for him, the people who didn't, to get them on this team, so we can beat this pandemic. And he has to bring this economy back. And he has to address climate change.
So, yes, he is going to talk about the shocking way Trump in his minions treated the selection. But I think he needs to do lots of other things as well.
HAYES: Well, I agree with that. And Adam, I have to say that obviously, the bar is extremely low. I mean, just utterly low. But I was actually somewhat surprised to see a bunch of Republican senators kind of use today as the day they were going to mark it. I thought -- I thought they just sort of stay in denial of reality forever.
But you have -- you've got folks like Blunt, the Inaugural Committee saying is going to move forward. You've got Rob Portman issuing a statement talking about, you know, we need to respect the process the founding fathers establish, we must respect the will of the voters. You know, they had every right to pursue recounts and legal challenges. But there was I thought more movement towards sanity today than we had seen a while, and I wonder what you made of it?
ADAM JENTLESON, FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF TO SEN. HARRY REID: Yes, I think that's right. But I think the most important thing is what you said at the beginning about the bar being low. I think that, you know, we've come to celebrate the fact that a relatively small number of Republican elected officials are acknowledging a very clear fact that Joe Biden won the election, a full month and several weeks after that happened.
So, I think that it's great to see that, you know, mild outbreak of sanity here, but I think it's also really important to keep an eye on the big picture, which is how long it took for that outbreak of sanity to occur.
HAYES: And we should note -- I mean, Senator Boxer, I'm going to read you this quote from Kevin Cramer who is a Senator from North Dakota. I want to read the whole thing just because it is worth hearing a person essentially try to like gift wrap themselves in prose while speaking which is sort of like -- he says, "Well, it seems to me that being elected by the Electoral College is a threshold where a title like that is probably most appropriate. That's President-Elect. And it's -- I suppose you can say official if there is such thing as official President-Elect or anything else-elect. And there's an inauguration that will swear somebody in and that person will be the president of the United States. But whether you call it that or not, you know, there are legal challenges that are ongoing, not very many, probably not a remedy that would change the outcome, but so I don't -- again, I don't know how politician refers to another politician. But it does look to me, like the big race is really between the Inaugural Committee and Justice Department at this point, so we'll see how the e-mails turn out." Why is he talking like that?
BOXER: My response is, read the Constitution. You're supposed to understand that we have a new president, and every single thing that it says in the Constitution, and you know, it's a little document. It's just very easy to read. And it lays out, you know, that every state runs the election, that they pick the electors. The electors meet on a certain date, which happened to be today. And if you get 270 votes, you're president.
Read the Constitution. You were showing your ignorance in addition to your cowardice. I am stunned at that. I'm glad you read that. That is the most nonsensical thing I've ever seen, at least today.
HAYES: So, Adam, you know, there's -- I want to go to both you on this question. I'll start with you, Adam. You know, I think there's this interesting divide, right, in the Democratic Party. It's not neatly, I think, an ideological one about the center versus the left, but sometimes it's generational and sometimes just tactical, which is, what do you do now, in governing with this party as your opposition? A party that just in the House had 126 members and, you know, 18, attorneys general sign on to an attempt to dissolve American democracy as we know it, right.
You're going to go into a government that they can -- they are part of, and what is your approach to them? And I think there's some thinking about Joe Biden is someone who came through 40 years in the Senate. He have relationships with these people where he doesn't view them as sort of implacable dead-end opposition to democracy, but worry that he -- whether he can see what's in front of his face. And I'm curious what you thought of the speech tonight in that context.
JENTLESON: Yes. The only way to craft a workable strategy for this situation is to accept the world and confront it for what it is right now and confront these realities that are staring us in the face. And it's up to Democrats to do that. In terms of the President-Elect Biden, I think that it's -- you know, he's talked a lot about the prospects for cooperation. He's talked a lot about his record of forging bipartisan deals. And that is true. He has done that in the past.
I think what remains to be seen is whether this is a velvet glove over an iron fist. I think that as far as rhetoric is concerned, I think as far as you know, trying to heal America, that was a core part of his message. That's all very well to say. I think the question is, when push comes to shove and our cooperation doesn't materialize, is he willing and ready to deploy some, you know, more hardball tactics to try to hold republicans accountable as they deserve to be held?
HAYES: And Senator Boxer, what do you think of that?
BOXER: Well, what should we do now? We need to win Georgia, Chris. That's why I was so glad you had Stacey Abrams. We win Georgia. We're in a different situation.
HAYES: Yes. It's a good point. Mitch McConnell is not going to sit there and run this country into the ground and turn his back on millions of people who are hurting so badly. And I think, you know, we'll see how that goes. And then we have to pick off those Republicans in the Senate who have a heartbeat, a pulse, and a brain.
And you know, Joe's the right person to do it. And then if we can't do that, there's lots of things you can do. But it's clear that right now we have to pull together, win Georgia, win over some of these Republicans and see what stand.
HAYES: One thing at a time is very wise advice particularly in this year of the pandemic. Barbara Boxer, Adam Jentleson, thank you both. The threat of violence shut down parts of the Michigan government. Today, Michigan Secretary of State who has been targeted herself joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: It looked for a time earlier today like things could get ugly in Michigan. The state closed its House and Senate office buildings over what they said were credible threats of violence during today's Electoral College meeting. And then Republican State Representative Gary Eisen suggested he and other Republicans would disrupt the Electoral College vote. He also predicted there would be violence prompting this exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you assure me that this is going to be a safe day in Lansing? Nobody is going to get hurt.
REP. GARY EISEN (R-MI): No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
EISEN: I don't know because what we're doing today is uncharted. It hasn't been done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: After Gary Eisen made those comments, Michigan Republican legislative leaders pulled him from his committee assignments. Meanwhile, the scene in Lansing was thankfully ultimately calm, just a dozen or so pro-Trump protesters showing up outside the Capitol on a chilly day. And when a rogue group of Republican electors tried to enter that building, Michigan State Police turn them away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The capitol is close. (INAUDIBLE) or if you're taking part of the Electoral College process. Anybody else are not permitted to --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are elector.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are electors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here to take part on the electoral process.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. The electors who are already here, they've been checked out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Inside, the democratic electors went about the people's business where they elected Joe Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has the tally been completed?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Lieutenant Governor. The electors have unanimously cast 16 votes for Joseph R. Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I'm joined now by Michigan's Democratic Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, who earlier this month had her home surrounded by angry Trump supporters, some of them armed, who falsely accused her of allowing the election to be stolen.
Let's start, Secretary of State, with your top line on today. I was -- I was a bit worried when I saw the news about closing the House and the Senate. But it seemed like things went smoothly. How did you feel went today?
JOCELYN BENSON, SECRETARY OF STATE OF MICHIGAN: I think it was a great day for democracy, Chris. It was it really a reflection of all the work that went into this election to ensure that we were able to have a high turnout election in the midst of a pandemic. All the work that's happened since the polls closed on November 3rd to ensure the votes were counted accurately and securely.
And really, this was the end result of a long and windy road. But that every step of the way, we work to make sure that the voters' will was heard and democracy was protected.
HAYES: You know, we have seen now, obviously, there were arrests of a number of individuals who have been charged with allegedly plotting the kidnapping or execution of the Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer. You had people outside of your house, some of them armed, protesting. There were concerns today in Arizona, as I understand it, where the meeting of the electors was moved to an undisclosed location.
What does it do to democratic governance and democracy when this sort of threat of violence hangs over the activities of folks?
BENSON: Well, you know, I started my career in the south investigating hate groups and hate crimes all around the country, and was really instill there with a strong sense and an acute awareness of just how much oftentimes does have to be preserved and the potential for violence that that could engender to ensure that democracy does prevail.
And so that's never been lost on me. And many of us, including my friend, Secretary Hobbs in Arizona, it's something that we're actually acutely aware of, and willing to endure in order to ensure that our democracy is protected. A lot of people have said to me this year, did you really sign up for this? And my response is absolutely.
I absolutely signed up to put everything on the line to protect the will of the people and to protect our democracy. None of us, of course, could have predicted all of the turns of events that have occurred since the polls closed. But that said, we are ready, and we'll continue to be ready, we'll continue to stay safe to ensure that our democracy in turn is also safe.
HAYES: Something I've seen in many states across the nation in reaction is a sort of real circular logic from Republicans in which after touting or tolerating or even endorsing these ludicrous conspiracy theories, now pointing and saying, well, people are -- you know, there's a lot of concern, and using that as a predicate for restrictions on voting. Well, we're going to have to shut down mail-in voting. Well, we're going to have to take another look at this. Well, we're going to have to do voter ID and signature match and all these things.
How much have you seen of that in Michigan? Do you think there's going to be a battle now about ballot access that uses these conspiracies as a kind of weaponized tool?
BENSON: Yes, sure. And again, that's also what we've seen throughout the history of our democracy. People create a fire and then create an idea of what needs to put that fire out. And oftentimes election administrators are stuck in the middle and that voters are stuck in the middle.
What I believe needs to happen is we need to one, come together and actually listen to each other and try to heal this divide right now, but to do so on the basis of facts and data and truth. We all have to be working from the same set of facts here. And facts and truth have actually been unequivocal, undeniable throughout this entire process.
We had a high turnout election in Michigan. 5.5 million people voted in the midst of a pandemic. It was secure. The results were accurate. So, if we can start from there, we can find ways to improve the process moving forward making data-driven decisions. But what we also have to do is acknowledge the impact of the conspiracy theories and false information that has been spread by many partisan actors throughout this process and correct that before trying to solve for any potential issues moving forward.
HAYES: All right, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, thank you so much for being with me.
BENSON: Thank you.
HAYES: Coming up, why is Trump's Attorney General quitting with just three weeks left on the job? And what is his replacement willing to do? We'll talk about that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYES: So, today, I think around 6:00 or so, it became official that the electors have met in the states and certified over 270 votes for Joe Biden. And presumably, the President was sitting in the White House watching this somewhere. And so, he issued a tweet announcing somewhat bizarrely that William Barr, the Attorney General, was resigning. He's just going to take three weeks early to hang out with his family during the holidays. It was very weird.
We then got a letter from the Attorney General that was this obsequious survival encomium to Donald Trump that might as well been written by Lou Dobbs. And then ended with "By the way, I'm peacing out on December 23."
It's a little hard to make sense of all this. So, what is happening at the Department of Justice with just 37 days left in the Trump ministration? Harry Litman is a former U.S. Attorney and Deputy Assistant Attorney General, and he joins me now.
Harry, I've never -- first of all, I've never read a resignation letter like this. But I also just -- this whole thing seems strange. I literally do not know what to make of it. What do you make of it?
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, first, I don't think the timing is accidental, Chris, as you say. So, it's an immediate news story to substitute once the electors have voted. What do I make of it I make that he was permitted to resign, that he wouldn't take this last hill for Donald Trump? He has today been the closest Attorney General to the president in many years. He's bent norms, he's bent laws, he's bent the truth.
But Barr wouldn't take this last tale and wouldn't tell Trump who probably doesn't even understand what the law is about that, that he could win this election fraud fight. And Trump has a short memory and a long, nasty streak. And I think he just said, well, Bill, you're not with me now and you have to you have to go.
I think he eased him out early as a kind of either retribution or didn't want him with them for this most important fight that may be in Trump's mind, he still thinks he is waging.
HAYES: I mean, I think he does. But what even could the Justice Department do? I mean, I have concerns about Jeffrey Rosen, I believe, is the name of the deputy who is now being named the Acting Attorney General and what he would be willing to do. But what all even is there?
LITMAN: The short answer is not a darn thing. You know, Rosen is a Washington lawyer. He'll want to be a Washington lawyer in three weeks. He's not going to stake his reputation on some quixotic effort to overturn an election that has already been decided. Trump doesn't necessarily know that. What he knows is, Barr A, didn't give him what he wants, and B, significantly, he didn't reveal that Hunter Biden was under investigation as he's been for two years.
Remember, that's the very thing that Trump wanted from the President of the Ukraine, just that soundbite. He didn't get it from Barr when he could have, so I think he's angry about it. But I don't see the department launching any kind of major effort to please Trump over the next few weeks. There's really nothing to be done. Anyone who knows the law knows that.
HAYES: Yes, it's interesting. So, we find out after the election that there had been investigation initiated of Hunter Biden on tax evasion specifically. One seems to be a fairly on the up and up organic investigation, one that's actually run out of Pittsburgh, if I'm not mistaken. It seems to be a little -- yes, a little shady or actually, but that is put those aside, what does it -- what does it say about bars legacy in total that did not serve as it should not have, right?
I mean, the idea is that that should be kept - that should be kept mum. We don't want to throw an election. What does it say about Barr's legacy in total that they did succeed in that respect?
LITMAN: I think that's the important question to now assess. And I think what it says is Barr was irate about the Mueller probe. He saw it as political. He was willing to twist the truth and do all kinds of unwarranted and unprecedented conduct. But on a couple of important points, he did play it straight. That will go down as important.
So, I think for his legacy, it'll say, he's a guy who thought the whole Mueller probe was bogus, and was -- and was willing to try to reverse it. But in a couple of important ways, he did play it by the rules here. And also, in saying what was an undeniable fact, guess what, there's no evidence of widespread fraud. I'm very sorry, Mr. President.
HAYES: Yes. I mean, it is weird the tone of that last letter just because it does sound like, you know, it was written by Lou Dobbs. I take him at his word that he really is -- like, he loves Donald Trump. He thinks Donald Trump is a model and a great president. And that's what his actual views in politics are.
I guess the question now becomes, there is a lot of concern about the pardon power being used and how it might be used by the President. DOJ normally would be involved in that because of his party's attorneys, but they've essentially cut DOJ out of the process. Do you think it matters, I guess, one way or the other who the Attorney General is in terms of President wielding that power?
LITMAN: Yes. You know, I think it does. Remember Barr was instrumental with the older Bush in having Caspar Weinberger and everybody. He said, in for a penny, in for a pound. You know, absolutely wipe the slate clean.
HAYES: Yes.
LITMAN: So, I think he could be there to provide guidance. As you say, there's a lot of rules and regulations that Barr -- excuse me, that Trump has routinely ignored, and I think we'll be ready routinely to ignore and he'll take any counsel, if any, from Pat Cipollone, others on his side of Pennsylvania Avenue.
So, in sense, Barr he won't need. But there's going to be I think some controversial pardons as you suggest and some kind of fig leaf cover from the Attorney General might have been helpful. But I think he was willing to let it go in his immediate peak that Barr didn't do him right in this most important final sort of Armageddon battles.
HAYES: Yes. It's a great point that in his first tour of duty, A.G. William Barr oversaw a host of sort of late-term corrupt out the door pardons by a one-term president. Harry Litman, thanks so much for sharing those insights. I appreciate it.
LITMAN: Chris, good to be here.
HAYES: So, we had two big stories of the day, as I said, at the top of this program. We've been going back and forth between them throughout the day as we've been noting them that there is of course the ambitious rollout of a Coronavirus vaccine, and then the state electors voting to make Joe Biden's presidency official. And Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot is at the center of both of those stories.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORI LIGHTFOOT, MAYOR OF CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: It is my great honor as the Mayor of the City of Chicago, but a proud of Illinoisan to cast my vote, and humbly doing so, for President Joe Biden and former Vice President, our sister, my friend, Kamala Harris.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: And Mayor Lori Lightfoot of Chicago joins me now. Mayor, what was it like to be part of that today? You guys did not have any of the sort of bizarre high jinks of some alternate state electors running around the state capitol. You got to actually just sort of do it all on the up and up without that. How did it feel to be part of that?
LIGHTFOOT: It's really thrilling. And, frankly, I felt humbled and honored to be a part of it. My fellow electors nominated me to chair the proceedings. And it's something that I'm going to remember for my whole life. So, it felt like a very important part of our constitutional obligations. And I was very grateful to be a part of it.
HAYES: Your city has been hit very hard by COVID in this in this wave. And you now have a vaccine rollout on your hands. We've also seen a kind of a post-peak, it appears. After some stricter measures were introduced in the city, we're seeing new cases come down. First of all, where are you in battling the epidemic in the city of Chicago?
LIGHTFOOT: Well, I think you hit the nail on the head. And the graphic that you just showed really shows that we definitely saw a pretty substantial surge in October and November. We saw a little bit of an uptick post-Thanksgiving, but we've -- in the last couple of days, starting to see those numbers plateau and start to come down, which is good news.
But look, the reality is we've got great news about the vaccine. But as someone said, and it's exactly right, we can see light at the end of the tunnel, but we're still in the tunnel.
HAYES: Yes, I mean, Chicago is a city like many American cities with huge disparities. In the -- in the city of Chicago, they are reinforced by huge geographical disparities and boundaries. And I wonder how you're thinking about getting vaccines to people that need them across lines of race and class and city geography?
LIGHTFOOT: Well, you know this city and you've hit the nail on the head. But logistics we can manage, and we've been preparing for that for months now. And I'm happy to say that we got our first set of vaccines, and we're going to start that process tomorrow. But the historic issues around healthcare disparities, health care delivery, are real and very much present in our city.
In our African American communities, the health care disparities that have led to life expectancy gaps and early death are real. And we've had a tremendous messaging challenge to reach people and convince them that the virus is safe -- the vaccine is safe, I should say, and that they should take the vaccine.
And then we've got a very diverse immigrant community, people who hail from other parts of the world with his great skepticism about government and mistrust. So, we've got to overcome those hurdles as well. That's why it's so important for us, as we have been doing, to enlist trusted community partners to really be the messengers around the vaccine, why it's important. And to make sure as appropriate, we get those folks vaccinated as well so they can really carry the gospel to people in the neighborhoods to really disabuse a lot of the myths and apprehension that's out there. And that's precisely what we're working on today.
HAYES: Does the city have the financial resources that you need for vaccine distribution?
LIGHTFOOT: No. We are able to handle this initial tranche. But like many cities across the country, we will be in a very difficult circumstance if the federal government doesn't stand up and provide additional support for it to build up the infrastructure and to make sure that we've got the resources we need to really spread out the by the vaccine across our geography. To make sure that there's no cost, that we're reaching people where they are, which is going to be really important.
We've got to have a decentralized process for distribution of the vaccine in order to make sure that we maximize the number of opportunities to get people vaccinated. But we need federal government support, there's no question about that.
HAYS: What is your benchmark for how you're thinking about, say, the next three months, in terms of both battling the pandemic in the short term, keeping people safe, and getting the vaccine out?
LIGHTFOOT: Well, number one, we've got to keep saying to people that until we see widespread distribution of the vaccine, which is going to be over many months, that we've got to keep practicing the public health guidance that we know works which is social distancing, eliminating the number of people that we come into contact with, and of course, wearing masks and face covering, even in our homes. That's going to be critically important.
That's why I keep saying we see the light at the end of the tunnel, but we're not out of the tunnel yet. We've also got to make sure that we keep spreading the word about why the vaccine matters. I really think they're kind of three groups. They're the people who are going to take the vaccine no matter what. Those folks, we got to make sure that we reach them early on in this process. Then we got people on the other extreme, who no matter what we do, are not going to take the vaccine.
But I think the vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle. They need more information. They need us to be able to reach out to them and convince them that taking the vaccine is in their best interest, the best interest of their family and loved ones. And that's the work that I think lies ahead of us.
And then I think the other big challenge is making sure that we -- the federal process keeps working to bring more of the vaccine providers online safely, and then making sure that we've got the infrastructure to get those massive doses to the states and to the cities.
HAYES: All right, Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot, who like every mayor in America right now, has their work cut out for them. Thank you so much for making time tonight.
LIGHTFOOT: Thank you for having me on the show, Chris.
HAYES: What needs to happen next as the vaccine rolls out across the country? One of the doctors advising the Biden campaign on exactly that joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): So, we are about to welcome the vaccines, the very first vaccines here in Colorado. Any minute now, we're going to hear a doorbell. It's not a doorbell, it's a knock but OK. And then, we're going to, of course, let the vaccine in. Oh, there we go. This is the Pfizer vaccine arriving here in Colorado to end the pandemic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put it right here.
POLIS: Do we have to sign for it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It's Colorado Governor Jared Polis who was just giddy for the rival decode vaccine, as are the rest of us. The first shipments of the Pfizer vaccine were delivered across the country today. And shortly thereafter, healthcare workers like this group in Ohio became the first people in the U.S. to be inoculated against Coronavirus.
Nearly three million doses are expected to be delivered to more than 600 locations by the end of the week. Sandra Lindsey, who's a --- who's a critical care nurse at the Long Island Jewish Medical Center in Queens, she was the first person in the country to receive the vaccine this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDRA LINDSAY, CRITICAL CARE NURSE, LING ISLAND JEWISH MEDICAL CENTER: I feel hopeful today, relieved. I feel like healing has come in. I hope this marks the beginning to the end of the very painful time in our history. I want to instill public confidence that the vaccine is safe. We're in a pandemic, and so we all need to do our part.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Just seeing these health care workers able to get the vaccine is a real reason for optimism. But of course, as everyone keeps saying, as she said, as Lightfoot said, there is just a long way to go to curb the spread and keep the virus under control and get everyone vaccinated.
Dr. Atul Gawande is a surgeon at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, professor at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. He is sharing that expertise with President like Biden as a member of the Biden Harris transition COVID-19 advisory board. It's great to have you on, Doctor.
First, I guess, just to take a step back before we get into the bad stuff, and there's a lot of it. This is a remarkable scientific achievement. Essentially, nothing has ever been done like this on this scale. How did you feel watching those images today?
ATUL GAWANDE, SURGEON, BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL: It was incredibly moving. There's the science, but there's the bigger deal here, which is that we finally, finally as a country committed to defeating the virus. We've missed so many opportunities over these last months. We didn't do test and trace as an effort to get this contained and controlled and defeated.
Now, we're moving ahead. And that is -- you just don't know as someone who's been in public health this long, we've been fighting uphill to come together as a country and we really did. Across all of our states, we came together. And that is a very big and moving thing.
HAYES: You mean, in terms of just watching across all the states, you know, distributing inoculating today and to watch a kind of coordinated governmental effort that is actually like intervening positively.
GAWANDE: Exactly, Republicans, Democrats getting together on a -- on a common course to stop and defeat the virus. This is not going to be enough by itself. We are up against 300,000 marked dead today. The next 100,000, it will be 400,000. That is already baked in with the millions who are actively infected today that we already know about.
The next question is, can we stop the 500,000 mark from happening? And that's going to require not just the vaccine, but masks, limitations on capacity in places where the spreads happening out of control. Those are still the things we're going to be coming together to do in the weeks to come.
HAYES: I want to play a little bit of what the President-Elect had to say about vaccines tonight. Obviously, you know, it's -- I guess the closest analogue would be, you know, President Obama inheriting the financial crisis or FDR in the midst of depression of having this, you know, defining -- this defining challenge, right, of the vaccine as sort of the first thing you have to do governance wise.
He just talked about the urgent work in front of all of us and getting it under control as the number one job. I guess my question was, like, how hard a task is that going to be? How much range is there in the competency and execution for this new administration of how long it takes?
GAWANDE: It is a massive undertaking. There's just the physical production and distribution of the vaccine to move out into the country. There's going to be the messaging and the consistent airing, honestly, about what we learn as we go through this. You know, we've had a very good day today.
We're going to be hearing about people who will have side effects. You know, there are people will have fevers, people will have some adverse events that we know will come. But our choices are, get the Coronavirus or get the vaccine. That really is the only choice. And already the evidence is clear. The vaccine is so much safer at every age than getting the Coronavirus.
HAYES: So, let's talk about this next period and then the next 100,000 Americans that we might lose, the ones that are out past the folks that are already, as you say, baked in. I have to say, I find it the most astounding moral failure of the American government probably in my life, honestly, upward there with the Iraq war and a few other things that we have essentially allowed this to happen.
And I do wonder like where the reserve of discipline amongst everyone comes from because right now it just feels like a lot of the country gave up, the federal leadership and the President obviously gave up. And the idea of the vaccine paired with this message, but it's going to be a while. It seems like it's a little bit of a tough one to pull off. What are your thoughts on that?
GAWANDE: Well, I mean, we're going to be tested every single week. And the next tests that we have are already upon us. We haven't allocated enough money to distribute the vaccine yet. We -- the estimates from the CDC or the vaccinators, the states and localities need $6 billion. The estimates from public health organizations are they need $8 billion. The current administration has allocated $300 million.
We don't have enough for all the vaccinators. So, you know, the relief bill that's going through Congress right now, the one that Mitch McConnell is fighting does not want money going to states and localities. That is crucial that we actually get that money going to the states and localities. That's just the first step.
HAYES: Yes.
GAWANDE: And then Thursday, there will be the Medina review of the data from the other vaccine that had preliminary evidence that was very strong. And it's expected that that will be approved. And that will open up not just a few million people being -- getting vaccine in the last week in the -- in this coming week, but tens of millions in the next few weeks to come if production can be picked up.
So, there's so many steps along the way before we get to the hundreds of millions. And bring everybody along with all the steps we have to do in the interim, including those masks, including the distancing, and what it takes to get through the next few months.
HAYES: I guess the final thing is just how to get people to avoid family get-togethers in the holidays. I have to say it's such an obvious -- it's such an obvious problem. And I understand so profoundly the need to be around people, but it just seems like we got to all make it through the next holiday. So, if you're listening to this, please, please, please, reconsider over thinking about anything indoors with family.
Dr. Atul Gawande, thank you so much for making time tonight. I really appreciate it.
GAWANDE: Thank you, Chris.
HAYES: That is ALL IN on this Monday night. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.END
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