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Transcript: The 11th Hour with Brian Williams, October 23, 2020

Guests: Kavita Patel, Jenna Arnold, Baratunde Thurston, Michael Moore


President Donald Trump holds packed Florida rallies as COVID-19 spikes. Trump's claimed U.S. rounding turn on COVID-19 for 50 days. Joe Biden calls for mask mandates and free COVID-19 vaccine. More than 85,000 new cases of the virus were reported across the country, shattering an earlier single-day record and stirring new fears about the months ahead.


MIKE ESPY (D), SENATE CANDIDATE: -- his endorsement is monumental. It's going to be a good day November 3rd, I believe so. Keep your eyes on Mississippi.

LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: I am going to keep my eyes on Mississippi because on election night in our assignments here at MSNBC, I've been given the jurisdiction to cover the Senate races. So I'm going to be watching very closely what's happening for you on election night. Mike Espy, thank you once again, for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it.

ESPY: Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

O'DONNELL: Mike Espy gets tonight's last word. The 11th Hour with Brian Williams starts now.

BRIAN WILLIAMS, MSNBC HOST: Well, good evening once again. Day 1,373 of the Trump administration, meaning 11 days are left until Election Day.

The final stage of this race is unfolding across our country as is an uncontrolled pandemic. The numbers are trending in a very disturbing direction. The latest data from the COVID tracking project shows more than 83,000 new cases diagnosed just today. That's an all-time high even for us. Even more than the record set during the summer surge across the American Sun Belt.

And this headline from the New York Times reads, "The number of people hospitalized with the coronavirus in the US up by 40 percent in the past month." More than eight and a half million Americans have a confirmed case of this. Over 225,000 souls lost. Yet just hours after coming under such heavy fire for his response to the pandemic, Donald Trump was back at it packed rallies on the road. He held back to back Florida events, Pensacola and at the villages, the largest retirement community in our country. Yet his messaging on the virus sounded nothing like much of what the nation now faces.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're rounding the turn. With or without the vaccine we have the vaccines. They're going to be great. But with or without, we're rounding the turn. Normal life it's all we want fully resuming. We want normal life to fully resume. And that's happening. We understand the disease. I understand it better than you, I had it. Joe Biden's plan will crush America. My plan will crush the virus.


WILLIAMS: The seniors that Trump spoke to earlier this afternoon that event at the villages they were key to his victory four years ago, but the polls show their support is anything but solid, anything but certain now. Today the president seemed to suggest that the current reporting on the virus was just an effort to scare older Americans into backing Biden.


TRUMP: Well, Biden and his handlers in the media want to talk about today is COVID, COVID, COVID. On November 4, you won't hear anything about it because we are rounding that turn. You won't hear. But they want to scare you to try to make you vote for Biden.


WILLIAMS: For his part, the former vice president used the day, the layout and that rat actually rather detailed plan to try to contain the pandemic in the United States.


JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If this is his success, what's the failure look like? We're more than eight months into this crisis. The President still doesn't have a plan.

I'll reach out to every governor in every state, red and blue, as well as mayors and local officials during transition to find out what support they need a go to every governors, and to mandate mask wearing in their states. And if they refuse, I'll go to the mayors and county executives and get local masking requirements in place nationwide. I'm not going to shut down the economy. I'm not going to shut down the country. I'm going to shut down the virus once we have a safe and effective vaccine that has to be free to everyone, whether or not you're insured. Yes, Mr. President, I'll listen to the scientists and I'll empower them.


WILLIAMS: Mask mandates are a big feature of the Biden plan and for good reason. A new study from a medical journal says universal mask wearing could save 133,000 American lives by just the end of February. Same study shows and warns that without masks, the virus could kill over half a million of us by then, largely while we watch.

So far, governors in 17 states have not made masks mandatory in any form. This morning, the President gathered reporters for an event in the Oval Office to announce improved relations between Israel and Sudan. Again packed with people shoulder to shoulder and during the event, Trump mocked a reporter for wearing a mask while on the phone with Netanyahu of Israel minutes after defending his response to the pandemic.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you stand by your statement that you take responsibility for the pandemic that you said last night, sir?

TRUMP: I always take responsibility and I've done a great job. And the people around me have done a great job.

TRUMP: This is Jeff Mason. He's got a mask on that's the largest mask I think I've ever seen, so I don't know if you can hear him.


WILLIAMS: Today we learn more about just how far the White House Coronavirus Task Force has been sidelined. Dr. Anthony Fauci told our colleague Chuck Todd, the task force meetings have indeed become less frequent.


DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: The doctors, myself and Dr. Birx and Dr. Redfield and Dr. Hahn and others meet, we used to meet in-person but now virtually at least once a week. But an official taskforce meeting, Chuck, in the last several weeks has been about one per week.

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: And when was the last time you had the president at one of these task force meeting?

FAUCI: At a task force meeting I -- that was several months ago. I definitely don't have a zero as much as Scott Atlas right now.


WILLIAMS: That Dr. Atlas he's talking about is the California radiologists that Trump saw on Fox News. He has been widely reported to be a divisive force on what remains of the task force. He's publicly flirted with the notion of herd immunity, which would likely kill millions of Americans.

And tonight a curious development within the Trump friendly confines of Fox News, Lou Dobbs, who is publicly revered by this President, launched an attack on Lindsey Graham who's been fighting for his political life in South Carolina. Dobbs blasted Graham for not doing enough to look into Trump's political opponents.


LOU DOBBS, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK HOST: I don't know why anyone in the great state of South Carolina would ever vote for Lindsey Graham. It's just outrageous. This is the guy who keeps saying, stay tuned. He said he was going to get to the bottom of Obama gate with the Judiciary Committee, which has been a year and a half, actually longer of absolute, a nerd, a nurse response to these pressing issues of our day.

Graham has betrayed President Trump at almost every turn. He has betrayed the American people and his oath of office. He's done absolutely nothing to investigate Obama gate, except to tell everyone stay tuned. Time and time again. Stay tuned. Senator Graham needs to be tuned out in South Carolina.


WILLIAMS: What is happening there? We'll talk about it in a bit but let's bring in our big three to start our discussion on a Friday night. Susan Page, Veteran Journalist, Best Selling Author, USA Today Washington Bureau Chief, Peter Baker, Chief White House Correspondent for The New York Times, also co-author along with his wife, Susan Glasser of the new book, the man who ran Washington, the life and times of James A. Baker III. And Dr. Kavita Patel is back with us as well, Clinical Physician, Former Senior Aide during the Obama administration now a non-resident fellow at Brookings, and among our medical contributors.

Indeed, Doctor, this being an uncontrolled pandemic, I would like to begin with you. It's scary looking at the stats and knowing we are heading into winter. Why do you think there's been such a rapid increase in cases and again, these two packed rallies in Florida today, notwithstanding?

DR. KAVITA PATEL, FORMER AIDE TO VALERIE JARRETT IN THE OBAMA WHITE HOUSE: Yeah, Brian, you're identifying one of the main causes that we still are wrestling without any sort of even usage of masks, estimates up to about half the country still does not have kind of a regular pattern of using masks when we know the science tells us as you pointed out, that it cannot only reduce deaths, but transmission.

Second largest factor driving these increasing cases is the fact that it is getting colder around parts of the country. And you are seeing people, especially younger people kind of migrating indoors into kind of, you know, congregate settings as we call them, bars, restaurants. And that is also a huge driver.

And then I think third, is the fact that the health system is overwhelmed. We're starting to see, as you mentioned, kind of an uptick in hospitalizations. Texas led the way in this last week with the largest increase in hospitalizations. Hospitals in Utah have actually had to deny trauma cases because they're so full of both COVID cases, Brian, and then all the routine medical issues that have escalated during this pandemic.

So those three things together, and the onslaught of the cold and flu season, which we're still kind of ready to brace and, but have started it officially that is leading to 80,000 cases which is deeply troubling across the country.

WILLIAMS: Peter Baker to what Dr. Patel just said this thing is rocketing through the northern plains parts of the Northwest. Has the President decided he is not going to get penalized for his mismanagement of a pandemic? He can say rounding the corner and does several times a day all he wants, it's not going to make it so.

PETER BAKER, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, that's right, Brian. Look, you know, he has experienced it for years, the political reality that he can bend events to his, to his liking, in a lot of ways. He has said over and over again, it's the greatest economy ever, even though of course, the indicators show it's pretty good, but not greatest economy ever. And yet people tend to believe him if he says it again and again, if he says it again and again that the Russia thing was a hoax. People forget that Robert Muller identified 10 instances where he may have broken the law and obstructed justice. But if Trump continues to say over and over again, it's a hoax. A lot of people believe in.

The problem with a disease is it doesn't bend to rhetoric. It doesn't bend the political repetition. You can say all you like we're ending -- we're rounding the curve toward home and that the end is in sight. But if 1000 people are getting sick every day, if a new 911 happens every three or four days in terms of deaths, that doesn't sell, you know, the people who are experienced it in their own lives. And I think that what these polls show, again and again and again, is that people in America have not approved the way he handled the virus no matter how many ways he tried to say that he's been successful at it.

WILLIAMS: Susan, I want to read you a bit. That happens to be in Peter's paper about an unintended consequence. Iowa's governor is not on the ballot next month but her defiant attitude toward the advice of health experts on how to fight the coronavirus outbreak as her state sees a grim tide of new cases and deaths may be dragging down fellow Republicans who are running including Mr. Trump and Senator Joni Ernst. Of course, Senator Ernst had her own trouble with the price of soybeans at the last debate. But Susan, is this indeed, part of the unintended political costs of this virus and its handling?

SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "USA TODAY": Yes, I think we may be heading toward a day of reckoning with the election in 11 days that will affect not only President Trump, but candidates down the ballots. It could -- it's almost guaranteed that Republicans are going to lose seats in the House and lose seats in the Senate. It is entirely possible to lose control of the U.S. Senate. We see the effect down the ballot in state legislative races. Because as Peter was saying, people see the impact of this virus in their own lives, in their own communities.

And if you ask me, what was the most important -- when we look back? What was the most important thing that happened in the last two weeks of the campaign? I think it might be today with past this record number of new cases. And we're heading into a season where we think it's only going to get worse.

WILLIAMS: Doctor, it can be said clinically and without political judgment that there was one virus containment plan on the stage of that debate last night, and it was former Vice President Biden's, as a physician and a policy person listening, did you find any holes in it?

PATEL: No, I didn't. Candidly, Brian, actually, he ticked off everything that I was looking for, talked about masks, talked about working with local officials. That's been critical in any strategy to fight the pandemic.

And then I think perhaps the most important point that he made was really on, you know, the point of question, excellent moderating, by Kristen Welker about the vaccine. First of all, the President was entirely unrealistic once again, and promising a vaccine and quote weeks, and making it sound like every American would get one. And I think that the vice president appropriately said, like, we want the science to lead, I will trust the scientists, but that we also need to work on this kind of very massive logistic effort to get out of vaccine. And that's really, in a nutshell, Brian, what kind of all the things that public health officials have been saying for months, but we haven't really seen, and we heard that in very clear messaging. And I think for the first time, we saw that you can have a president that can actually stand on a stage and it wasn't Trump that gives you that clear signal about how to deal with this virus.

WILLIAMS: Peter Baker, there is no elegant way to say this, but more people had Rudy and Borat on their 2020 bingo cards than Lou Dobbs going after Lindsey Graham tonight. Engage if you must end rampant political speculation, what do you think is going on there?

BAKER: Well, look, you know, President Trump has counted on the idea that there would be some last minute, you know, Jim, call me like intervention in this election. That would reproduce the kind of inside straight He captured last time. He you know, was behind a Hillary Clinton and really in the last few days the announcement that Jim Comey had reopened the email investigation because of the Anthony Weiner laptop certainly had an impact on the final result. He's looking to reproduce history here. And it doesn't seem to be the Bill Barr is going to do. He's frustrated with that. He was attacking Mike Pompeo, attacking Chris Wray. And obviously this frustration that Lou Dobbs expressing it, Lindsey Graham, you would think perhaps reflects something that the President himself feels or people around the President feel that there's been, you know, that there should have been something to have derailed Biden by now to have up ended this campaign to change the dynamics.

We were only 11 days away. That's, in fact, the day that Jim Comey 11 days before the 2016 election, that he made his announcement. We don't see anything like that on the horizon. We don't see anything in the next 11 days. We can anticipate the moment that can change the dynamics for a president who's behind by nine or 10 points in the national polls.

Now, he may pull it out. There's a lot of factors to consider that pandemic does affect how voting is being counted and being conducted. We don't know if the polls are any more accurate in the state level than they were last time. The national polls were accurate. And they seem to be, you know, at a place right now where the President is desperately looking for any magic bullet that will help him overcome this deficit, he's facing in the next 11 days.

WILLIAMS: Susan Page, try to suppress your shock as I share this clip with you this took place in the Oval Office today.


TRUMP: Do you think sleepy Joe could have made this deal, Bibi? Sleepy Joe, I think -- do you think he would have made this deal somehow? I don't think so.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAEL PRIME MINISTER: Well, Mr. President, one thing I can tell you is, we appreciate the help for peace from anyone in America and we appreciate what you've done enormously.

TRUMP: Yeah.


WILLIAMS: So Susan on a speakerphone with the leader of Israel, one of our greatest global allies in a room where presidents have launched wars and used nationwide television addresses to calm an anxious nation. What do you make of it?

PAGE: Well, it's -- once again, it's something we've not seen previous presidents do. It's shattering another norm. He also didn't get the answer he wanted to get obviously. He wanted Netanyahu to say something very critical about Biden and Netanyahu who probably is looking at the polls in America just like we are decided not to take a shot at Joe Biden.

Just one other thing on the Lindsey Graham story, this could really hurt Lindsey Graham. Lindsey Graham has an unexpectedly competitive race. Even in the South Carolina against Democrat Jaime Harrison who's had a ton of dough to spin against him. Lindsey Graham really needs Trump's troops to come out and vote for him. And they're not getting that kind of -- they're getting encouragement from that, those comments on Fox News.

WILLIAMS: No where we're little is said by accident. Thank you for that. That addition, our thanks to Susan Page, to Peter Baker, to Dr. Kavita Patel, our big three on a Friday night as we at long last head into a weekend, our thanks.

Coming up for us, can Donald Trump win over more voters who don't happen to be white men? Our next two guests may be uniquely qualified to take on these questions.

And later, last time around he made a shocking and early prediction that Donald Trump was going to win the presidency. Tonight, we're going to ask Michael Moore on live television how he's feeling about the race right about now. All of it as the 11th Hour is just getting underway on this Friday night.



TRUMP: So, can I ask you to do me a favor? Suburban women would you please like me? Then I heard I'm not doing well with suburban women. Suburban women should love Trump, suburban women, please. Thank you very much. I saved your suburbs, women, suburban women. You're supposed to love Trump. Suburban women, please vote for me. Suburban women, you should love it. You know, because somebody said I'm not doing that well with suburban women.


WILLIAMS: The President insists there, he's kidding when he begs for suburban women to love him just as he now insists, he was kidding about injecting disinfectants. Even though we could all see he was as serious as a funeral.

Back in the real-world poll show he is trailing far behind Joe Biden among women voters deeply underwater. In fact, the latest from the New York Times SIENA College poll puts Biden ahead with women voters by 23 percentage points. That gets your attention. Then there was this remark from Trump at the first of his Florida rallies today.


TRUMP: Kamala will not be your first female president. She will not be your first female president. It's not the way it's supposed to be. We're not supposed to have a socialist. Look, we're not going to be a socialist nation. We're not going to have a socialist president, especially a female socialist president. We're not going to have it. We're not going to put up with it.


WILLIAMS: A curious approach for a candidate eager for support of female and black voters. While we're at it, we want to welcome to the broadcast Jenna Arnold, she's an author and activist who was a national organizer for the Women's March on Washington. Also happens to be the author of the recent book, Raising Our Hands: How White Women Can Stop Avoiding Hard Conversations, Start Accepting Responsibility, and Find Our Place on the New Frontlines.

And back with us again tonight, Baratunde Thurston, author, activist, comedian, former producer over at The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, these days host of the podcast, How to Citizen.

Welcome to you both and good evening. And Jenna, I'll start with you. And let's get down to brass tacks. The assumption, the last time around was that women were going to help Hillary Rodham Clinton break the glass ceiling and make her president. What's the assumption this time around? Do you think?

JENNA ARNOLD, AUTHOR "RAISING CUR HANDS": They're going to move in a much different fashion. Traditionally, politicians have assumed that white women were going to pull the lever in the same direction as a lot of the men in their lives. And Trump is directly speaking to them hoping that he's going to be able to move a couple of these states but previously the political has never really been personal and American white women have been able to opt out is they've been able to draft off policies, politic privilege for generations. But since 2016, the surprising results of 2016 you had the Women's March, Muslim Ban, Me Too, and obviously seeing all of the fault lines in our failsafe in our society because of COVID. And then of course, the magnifying glass that's been over the longest rerun in our country, the abuse of marginalized communities as forcing this demographic to reckon with their behavior in ways that is going to be mountain moving.

WILLIAMS: Baratunde, thanks in large part to our friend and colleague, Kristen Welker as moderator last night. We heard at least one side of a discussion on race that in my lifetime, we've never heard at a presidential debate and I want to play for you part of Joe Biden's answer.


BIDEN: What I didn't, I never had to tell my daughter. If she's pulled over, make sure she puts for traffic stop, put both hands on top of the wheel. And don't reach for the glove box because someone may shoot you. But a black parent, no matter how wealthy or how poor they are, has to teach their child when you're walking down the street, don't have a hoodie on when you go across the street, making sure that you in fact, if you get pulled over, just yes or no sir, hands on top of the wheel.


WILLIAMS: Of course, that answer came about because the candidates were asked about the talk, the 10 into positioning on the wheel, and all that comes from that. Baratunde, how does that compare with, say it with me, I've done more for African Americans than any other president with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln?

BARATUNDE THURSTON, AUTHOR, ACTIVIST AND COMEDIAN: Don't make me say it, Brian. I was feeling good. We made it through another week that feels like a year and I just propose a toast to you, to Jenna, and to everyone watching these weeks, are hard and we deserve to celebrate. I wore a jacket for you tonight. That's how happy I am to make the Friday.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

THURSTON: What's remarkable to me about the race conversation on the debate last night, first is that we were able to have somewhat of a conversation. And the Washington Post put it best when they said, we had a civil debate, we only had to mute the president to be able to pull that off. And if there's one positive out of this zoom life we're all living in is that we know where to find that mute button now, and it's very powerful.

I think Joe Biden did what he is strong at doing and the President did what he is weak at doing. When asked to directly address a human being about a painful experience, Joe Biden acknowledged the humanity of the person in question. He humbly submitted himself and said, I don't know what that feels like. But he empathized. He recognized. He mirrored the pain of that experience. And the President per usual, made it all about himself, made it transactional, and made it ridiculous, as if he actually has done more for black people than any one since Abraham Lincoln. So he's made a joke and a mockery out of real pain and real challenges. Those that he actually exacerbates in this country, it is devastating that a parent would have to talk to their child to fear the people charged with protecting and serving them. And our President doesn't see so many of us, as his citizens.

WILLIAMS: And on the other side of the coin, Jenna, is the president again today telling suburban white women as a block that he has saved the suburbs that they don't want to, "live next to a project." How is that going over do you think? And how did it go over last night when he said that some of the children separated from their parents actually had a pretty good. They were actually living in kind of nice facilities.

ARNOLD: That was the one comment that made everybody gasp, everybody gasps. And you know, American white women don't care that they have a president that can't define socialism. But I think his statement around surely not a female president is just adding fuel to the fire. I mean, American white women are showing up in ways that are going to be historic, and it's not for this just one-time vote, Brian.

Come November 4, you're going to see a huge amount of white women having those hard conversations with themselves reaching out to those neighbors in the cul-de-sac that they have never really spoken to, picking up Barrett today's book and other phenomenal scholars who are putting out information and guiding us in ways that that we need to. Everyone now knows that they have the capacity to make real change and they're going to raise their hand to do it.

WILLIAMS: Baratunde, last night, as we all watch, the president dusted off the, I'm the least racist person you'll ever meet. Here's the Washington Post today from his Florida rally. Trump referenced Barack Hussein Obama three times in a row giving extra emphasis to Hussein, the middle name. He conflated low income housing with crime, warned of criminals and rapists and even murderers immigrating across the border, talked up his ban on travelers from Muslim companies to keep out radical Islam.

Meanwhile, and we've since seen this on video, a man behind Trump's shoulder repeatedly, sure appears to be flashing the white power symbol. I guess he's forthright about it. I don't quite know how anyone can process that pile of facts any other way.

THURSTON: This president is desperate, Brian. He's flailing. He's gripping on to a shrinking constituency, because he refuses to be the president for everybody. He begs for attention from women that he's dismissed pretty much his whole life.

When you look at his rallies, what is he chanting lock her up. When he is singling out members of Congress and governors, they're women. They're women of color. He doesn't see women as full citizens. He doesn't see people of color.

As Americans, no matter how long they've been here, no matter what office they have achieved. And I take a little bit of solace in the fact that more of us are seeing a to Jenna's point, this is not 2016. They are trying to suppress the vote and people are staying in line longer. They're trying to turn us against one another. And people are coming together.

And there's no polls I trust more than the election results. So, I am fighting from keeping my hopes up. I'm fighting to keep them down. But this President is not in a strong position. And he knows it. And we know it. And our time is coming. The people's time is coming. We've had enough of this nonsense. We really have. It's exhausting.

WILLIAMS: Let's leave it at this. We'll invite you both on when we know the results of the election. Should those results become known in our adult lifetimes. This has been interesting, and I want to thank you both for hanging out with us on a Friday night to Jenna Arnold our thanks. Baratunde I am the least jacket centric person you will ever meet. And that is a snappy jacket. And we appreciate you bringing the A game on our humble broadcast and I appreciate it folks very much.

THURSTON: Thank you.

WILLIAMS: Coming out for us. Strapping in for a rough 10 days ahead perspective. Live from Michael Moore when we come back.



MICHAEL MOORE, AUTHOR AND ACTIVIST: And I have to say I mean, I'm sorry to have to kind of be the buzzkill here so early on, but I think Trump is going to win. I'm sorry. I live in Michigan. Let me tell you.


MOORE: But what -- he's going to -- it's going to be the Brexit strategy. The middle of England is Michigan, Wisconsin --


MOORE: -- Ohio and Pennsylvania, and Mitt Romney lost by 64 electoral votes, the total electoral votes of those four states in the Rust Belt 64.


WILLIAMS: For those of us watching that night, it was a shocking moment. That was our next guest, Michael Moore. That was July 20th, the summer of 2016. Indeed, 111 days later, Donald Trump was elected President of the United States.

So back with us tonight, Michael Moore, proud Michigander, movie Maker, muckraker, par excellence also happens to be host to the podcast, Rumble with Michael Moore.

So Michael, Bill Maher is back tonight. He's got the mood. She's got McConaughey. But no Michael Moore, which leaves you for us. And my first question. We're 11 days out. We're about to be 10 days out. Where do you see this race?

MOORE: Well, I could tell you how it could go because I pay attention to all the bad signs. And like I said four years ago, I know people don't want to hear this. But we have to pay attention to this because you can take nothing for granted. You can't take Donald Trump for granted ever. Every time that you said all that's the end of Trump. It's never the end of Trump.

I mean, it really is never the end of Trump. So you have to get that in your head and I wake up every morning with that thought that yes, he could win again. He pulled it off before, he could pull it off this time.

And the signs are, for instance, states like Florida, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, in the last few months have had in some of these states twice as many people registered as Republican than as Democrats. Even though Democrats have more registered voters in each of these states. The Trump people have tightened the gap between the Republicans and Democrats in these states.

Trump went to Michigan last Saturday held a rally in Muskegon County. Muskegon County is only one of two counties that Hillary won on the west side of the state of Michigan back in 2016. All those counties along Lake Michigan she only one to, one of them was Muskegon.

Trump decides not to go to a Trump county in Michigan. He decided to go to a Hillary county and thousands show up. I don't take any of this. I take it all seriously.

Having said that, though, you know, four years of this madness, the people have had enough. I can completely convince of this. And the possibility exists of us not only beating Trump this time, again, with a popular vote 3 million last time. We could beat him again. But with a tsunami of votes. There could be a 10 million vote difference. You had Nate Silver on here this week, saying that there could be 165 million people voting in 10 days, 165 million hundred, 137,000,004 years ago. That's 30 more million people.

And I have this sense that the American people are going to come out in droves. That's my hope. It won't happen on its own and it's going to require a lot of us reaching out to people that don't usually vote to the non-voter.

The non-voters are equal about 80 million people in this country. They're registered, but they usually don't vote. We all need to reach our hands out to them not-voting. Note vote shame them, not wag our finger at them, but to say I am telling them why you understand why they don't vote. It's -- yes, it is a corrupt system. Yes, it's not completely democratic. This, this and that.

But our country, this is it. Come out this one time. Just vote this one time. You can go back to not voting if this doesn't work out. You don't like it go back to not voting, but just this once. Come on, because I know you love this country. I know you're committing an act of civil disobedience when you stay home on election day because you can't stand how this system feels so rigged to you. I get it.

This one time though, trust me that I think we have a chance to send Trump and these Republicans packing in a tsunami of ballots but likes to which hasn't been seen in this country in our lifetime. Come out with us this once, just this once.

WILLIAMS: You've just given me my next question. Let me sneak in a break our conversation with a fired-up Michael Moore continues right after this.



BIDEN: The longer Donald Trump is present and more reckless he gets. We don't have to be held prisoner by this administration's failures. We can choose a different path. We can do what Americans have always done, come together and meet the challenge with grit, compassion and determination.


WILLIAMS: Joe Biden speaking today in Wilmington, Delaware. Our guest Michael Moore remains with us. Michael, I'm going to put on the screen. Some of the early figures from young voters where there is early vote in battleground states. And these numbers you almost have to double check that they're real.

They have so over indexed. This time around this is voters aged 18 to 29, Florida, North Carolina, Michigan compared to 2016. Michael, perhaps being at home in a pandemic has its privileges. Perhaps they have been forced to listen to Grandpa Randy Pants talk about how the country's going to hell in a handbasket. But let's hear it for the young over indexing on the vote is what -- the Republicans are hoping for hidden Trump vote. There was a lot of that in 2016. Pollsters didn't detect all of it in 2016. It sounds to me from your first answer before our break that you're counting on a -- an almost equal if not overwhelming, hidden pandemic reaction vote.

MOORE: I don't know -- I don't think it'll be equal. That youth vote is incredible. By the way, Brian, , they're up listening to you late at night, especially 2:00 a.m. rerun, young people are that's where they get their news.

WILLIAMS: Seriously?

MOORE: Yes. I think serious today. The hidden Republican vote is that look at how Trump has collapsed in Michigan. Biden was ahead by 16 points in July. He's ahead by anywhere from eight to 10 now. So Trump has closed, gotten tightened up Biden's lead. So I think that that's why you have to pay close attention. This not all Trump voters are going to tell people on the phone that they're voting for Trump.

Having said that, the possibility of this tsunami is incredible. People have had to live through this. This coronavirus. Brian, when that -- when those numbers came on today that 82,000 have died in the last 24 hours. It's like 800 to 1,000 a day. And now, I think Dr. Redlener was on earlier saying that this could go up to 2,500 a day dying.

And when you look at Dr. Redlener's numbers from Columbia University, where if we had done what South Korea had done, the total number of dead would have been 2, 000 and something, if we done with Japan and done it be 4,000 and something, if we done with Australia done, we'd have 11,000 death. 200 and almost 25,000 people now dead. This is why Trump's going down.

And this is why everybody regardless of what they feel about anything now has to come out and vote for Joe Biden to slay the monster here. This has to end the possibility of us getting to a million dead in 2021. Now, you can see the path to it if Trump gets four more years.


MOORE: Jeff Flake, senator from Arizona, op-ed today said, we can't vote for Trump because four more years of him, we won't have a Republican Party that's op-ed. It's four years too late. The Republican Party has to pay for this along with Trump. They enabled him, they're sick offense. And they allowed this to happen and we are losing people and we're going to lose more people as a result of this. We -- This -- everybody off the bench, everybody out in the field. Everybody in the streets.

WILLIAMS: If Bill Maher -- if Bill doesn't book you for next Friday night, just show up at the studio door and insist on it. Michael Moore--

MOORE: I think you two does a secret trade somewhere on fine night.

WILLIAMS: -- always a pleasure. At the end of this hour 10 ways to go.

MOORE: Thank you, Brian.

WILLIAMS: Thank you. Good to see you. Coming up for us. America is already leading the world in terms of death toll. Just today we broke our own record in terms of cases. We have a report from inside an active COVID ward right after this.



KYLE DOSAN, ESSENTIA HEALTH-ST. MARYS MEDICAL CENTER ICU NURSE: Holding phone up to a family member and you can just hear the fear in their voice that, you know, they know that their loved one is fighting for their life right now. I'm exhausted. My coworkers are exhausted. And I think I speak for majority of health care workers right now. We're tired. You know, we're sick of COVID-19, we really are. We there's no end in sight.


WILLIAMS: Note that last bit no end in sight. While the President talks about rounding corners and lights at the end of the tunnel. Those on the front lines know the actual truth. Number of daily confirmed cases as we said, set a new record today. And in the state of Wisconsin just to name one, hospitals are now near capacity. In fact, we have a report tonight from inside a busy COVID unit at one such hospital.


GABE GUTIERREZ, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Gabe Gutierrez in Madison, Wisconsin, where the COVID units at University Hospital keep growing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm very scared that if this doesn't stop soon, we're going to end up with a much bigger problem.

GUTIERREZ: Dr. Katie Kivinsky (ph) started working here this summer. It's much busier now.

(on camera): How much worse do you think this could get?

DR. KATIE KIVINSKY (ph), COVID WARD DOCTOR: I think unfortunately it could get really, really terrible. It's devastating. It's terrifying to see someone struggling to breathe. You can see the fear in their eyes. You can see how scared they are.

GUTIERREZ: This COVID unit has 28 beds that reach that capacity not long ago. It's now down to 20 patients. This hospital is making plans for this winter. As flu season takes hold.

(voice-over): This is one of the hospitals three COVID units. It was once just one hallway. Now it's four.

KATIE LENIWAY (ph), COVID WARD NURSE: People are sitting in here a very sick.

GUTIERREZ: Nurse Katie Leniway (ph). That was the hardest part.

LENIWAY (ph): They are lonely they are dealing with this alone and it's becoming increasingly harder for us to try to manage and playing all these different roles, playing the nurse, playing the support person. It's very difficult.

GUTIERREZ: Tonight, just across town, The Big 10 conference kicks off its college football season. No tailgating allowed. But--

DR. JEFF POTHOF, UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN HEALTH CHIEF QUALITY OFFICER: The Badger game this evening does worry us. We have a very healthy culture of celebrating the Badgers tailgating parties. And if that happens this year with how much COVID is in our communities, it is certain to causes a super spreader event.

GUTIERREZ: A dire warning from those on the frontlines.

(on camera): Over the last week here in Wisconsin. An average of 23 percent of those tested came back positive.


WILLIAMS: And our thanks to correspondent Gabe Gutierrez for that report from Wisconsin. Another break and coming up we may be entering the most critical winter in the modern history of American health care. So it would be a good time for millions of Americans to have health care. The President says he's got this.


WILLIAMS: Last thing before we go tonight, while a lot of us are, let's call it out of circulation during this pandemic, if you do go out this weekend, please do so safely. And please pay special attention to your surroundings. Situational awareness they call it, look around and look hard because you can be a part of a great national effort to find the President's health care plan. We know what's out there because he told us.


TRUMP: We're going to get a health bill passed. We're going to get health care taken care of in this country. We have a plan that's going to be I think, fantastic. It'll be released fairly soon. We have a really terrific I believe health care plan coming up. We're going to have a health care plan. That's going to be second to none.

We have two planes coming in. Coming out in a very short period of time. We're going to come up with a healthcare plan. We're not going to vote on it until after the election. The plan is coming out over the next four weeks. We're going to produce the nominal health care we'll be announcing.

We have a great plan coming out. We're signing a health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan.

We're going to be doing a very inclusive health care plan. I'll be signing at some time very soon. We're going to be introducing a tremendous health care plan sometime prior, hopefully prior to the end of the month.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: in June of last year you said the health care plan would come in two weeks. You told Chris Wallace this summer would come in three weeks. You promised an executive order on preexisting.

TRUMP: I have it already. I have it already.

BUDEN: Has no plan for healthcare.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why -- didn't you develop at all?

TRUMP: It is developed, it is fully developed. It's going to be announced very soon. We will come up with a plan.


TRUMP: We will.


WILLIAMS: The latest effort from the Lincoln project to take us off the air tonight. And that is our broadcast for this Friday night and for this week, so we appreciate you being here with us. We wish you a good weekend unless you have other plans. And as always, on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of NBC News, good night.


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