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Transcript: The 11th Hour, 1/27/22

Guests: Peter Baker, Courtney Subramanian, Barbara McQuade, Jen Psaki, Juanita Tolliver, Mark McKinnon

Summary

WH, Democrats plan rapid push to fill SCOTUS seat. Justice Breyer announces retirement from Supreme Court. Biden to nominate black woman to replace Justice Breyer. McConnell warns Biden about SCOTUS pick. Biden speaks with Ukrainian President Zelensky amid continued Russian military build-up. 2021 strongest year of U.S. economic growth in decades.

Transcript

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: President Biden gets tonight`s Last Word. The 11th Hour starts now.

MEHDI HASAN, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, I Mehdi Hasan. Day 373 of the Biden administration and the race to confirm a new Supreme Court Justice is on with Justice Stephen Breyer officially stepping down. Democrats are hoping to match Trump`s record of getting his final nominee Amy Coney Barrett, remember her, onto the court in just 27 days instead of the typical 60 days plus. The Buzzword today among Democratic Senate leadership was expeditious. They`ve already begun strategizing their next moves. And one Democrat on the Judiciary Committee has this message for Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): We are prepared to fight, make no mistake. We are prepared to fight ferociously and use all the options we have to get this job done. It`s a job that will get done. This nominee will be confirmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: This afternoon, Justice Breyer appeared with the president at the White House to formally announce his retirement, Breyer carried the letter he sent to the White House that detailed his plans to remain on the court through the end of the current term this summer. And to not leave until a successor is confirmed. President Biden outlined how he plans to move forward with the nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Once I select a nominee, I`ll ask the Senate to promptly on my choice. In the end, I will nominate historic candidate, someone who is worthy of justice Breyer`s legacy, is my intention, my intention to announce my decision before the end of February. I have made no choice at this point. The person I will nominate will be some of the extraordinary qualifications, character, experience and integrity. And that person will be the first black woman ever nominated to the United States Supreme Court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: Justice Breyer than warned of the challenges he sees ahead for American democracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTICE STEPHEN BREYER, U.S. SUPREME COURT: This is a complicated country. There were more than 330 million people. People that are so different in what they think. And yet they`ve decided to help solve their major differences under law. But I`ll tell you what Lincoln thought but Washington thought and what people today still think it`s an experiment. It`s an experiment that`s still going on. It`s that next generation and the one after that. My grandchildren and their children. They`ll determine whether the experiment still works.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: Senators from both sides of the aisle are now beginning to weigh in on Biden`s potential choice to replace Breyer. West Virginia`s Joe Manchin who now has some free time on his hands having killed off the freedom to vote act and Build Back Better. Today, decided to weigh in on a nominee whose beliefs might not mirror his own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN, (D) WEST VIRGINIA: What you want is someone forget the philosophical beliefs they may have is basically how they have dispersed justice, their record. And they`ve been outspoken, they`ve been fair, things of that sort and they have a disposition. Whoever he puts up will have experience and will be able to judge them off of that. But as far as just the philosophical beliefs, no, that doesn`t, that will not prohibit me from supporting somebody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: Meanwhile, Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell is already hinted to get his party`s potential objections. In this statement, "the American people elected a Senate that is evenly split at 50-50. To the degree that President Biden received a mandate was to govern from the middle, steward our institutions and unite America, McConnell said in a statement. The President must not outsource this important decision to the radical left, the American people deserve a nominee with demonstrated reverence for the written text of our laws and our Constitution."

Clearly, Mitch must have forgotten about the outsourcing done to groups like the hard drive dark money federalist society that helped pick every single conservative justice on the high court.

Just ahead, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki joins me live. I`ll ask her about the President`s strategy to get his nominee confirmed.

Also, tonight, we`re following the latest in the U.S. standoff with Russia over Ukraine. NBC News reports Moscow is continuing to build a military presence along its border with Ukraine, further escalating fears of a Russian invasion.

Today, President Biden had a lengthy phone call with Ukrainian President Zelensky. There`s more on that ahead as well.

Let`s bring in our leadoff guests on this Thursday night, Peter Baker, Chief White House Correspondent for The New York Times, Courtney Subramanian, White House Correspondent for USA Today. And Barbara McQuade, a Veteran Federal Prosecutor and former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan. She co-hosts the podcast Sisters in Law which celebrates its one-year anniversary today.

Peter, let me start with you. There`s a lot of speculation about how hard the Republicans will fight this confirmation. We heard the not so veiled warning from Mitch McConnell about a radical pick.

[23:05:11]

The Washington Post note some conservatives have signaled they want to take an aggressive approach and fight whomever Biden nominates. How strong, Peter, do you think the appetite is among Senate Republicans? For what they might wrongly think is payback for Kavanaugh or Barrett?

PETER BAKER, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, look, you know, they`re going to fight the nominee, just because that`s what their role is. That`s, you know, that`s what their base expects them to do. That`s the nature of politics in Washington today. It doesn`t really matter, as long as Democrats are together, because they have, at least if you believe that the Vice President can cast the tie breaking vote, and there`s some dispute about that. They have a majority to force their nominee through, again, that points to the importance of Senator Manchin and Senator Sinema.

But, you know, Senator Manchin and Senator Sinema have supported all I think of President Biden`s judicial nominee so far, including some of the people who are being named as candidates for this particular slide. So, there`s no necessarily reason to believe that their disagreement or the Build Back Better Act and on the filibuster, but it stands to a Supreme Court nomination. At this point, the Democrats look pretty united on this subject. They care a lot about this court as it`s about to consider whether or not to overturn Roe v. Wade. My guess is that as long as the Democrats are together, the Republican nomination will be about, you know, making some noise and having a debate, but not necessarily threatening the actual success of a nomination.

HASAN: Courtney, what`s the White House`s overall strategy to get the nominee confirmed swiftly? How aggressive are they going to be in terms of timelines do you think?

COURTNEY SUBRAMANIAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "USA TODAY": Well, I think it`s important to remember that Breyer`s retirement was already expected. So, the groundwork here has already been laid as White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki pointed out today. The President has been reviewing the biographies of his potential nominees for at least a year but, you know, dating back to the campaign trail even longer than that. So, you know, this is not something as much as the starting gun went off yesterday, or today, even with Breyer`s official announcement. This is a process that has been well underway. The White House is bringing in, you know, they have their team of folks within the White House. They`ll bring in outside advisors to help shepherd through whoever the president eventually names.

And, you know, there`s already outreach to folks on the Hill. So, this is not something that has necessarily been as frenzied as you might have had with other Supreme Court Justice nominations, when we`ve had unexpected deaths. This is something that the President has been preparing for over the last year.

HASAN: And Barb, Courtney, mentioned the president reviewing the biographies of the potential nominees replacing Breyer won`t increase the number of liberals on the court, it`ll still be six, three. But many of these nominees put aside gender, put aside ethnicity, have very different backgrounds than Breyer. How could the high court in the land change? How could the progressive faction on the court change if one of these nominees is confirmed?

BARBARA MCQUADE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, so many of the justices on the Supreme Court, Mehdi, they may look a little bit different, but actually have very similar backgrounds, you know, degrees from Harvard or Yale, very high pedigrees, and not a lot of them live in kind of the lived experience that many other Americans live. And so, I think one of the things that it might be useful for President Biden to think about is, you know, who was maybe from America`s Heartland or who maybe went to a law school other than an Ivy League Law School.

President Biden himself didn`t go to Ivy League schools, and probably has an appreciation for other kinds of experiences. And so having diversity in all shapes and forms is really valuable. And I know you said aside from the obvious demographics, but you know, I`ve heard people say, it`s inappropriate for President Biden to say he will commit to selecting an African American woman. It`s really important, we`ve excluded African American Women, and that perspective forever. And so, it is high time we had that perspective and others represented in court, because when you have a diversity of perspectives, groups make better decisions. And I think that will make the court better. You know, if you can get past the politics of it, having different viewpoints, experiences and perspectives will make the court make better decisions.

HASAN: Yes, we mustn`t favor one demographic say the same people who have favored white men for over 200 years.

Peter, we now have Chuck Schumer and Judiciary Committee Chair Dick Durbin charged with shepherding this first Biden court pick through the Senate, the push comes after two of Biden`s other big priorities failed on voting rights, on Build Back Better, how much pressure is this democratic leadership both in the White House and in the Senate under right now?

BAKER: Well, they are under a lot of pressure, but this is also an opportunity to kind of take the sourness out of the mouth (inaudible) few weeks and in fact I think that, you know, I think the Democrats are happy about this. They see this as an opportunity to have a reset after difficult couple months.

[23:10:15]

There is again, agreement for the most part among Democrats on this area. This is -- remember, Biden has actually managed to confirm more federal judges in his first year that President Trump didn`t his and President Trump, of course, made a big point about how much he had remade the federal judiciary that was one of his big accomplishments over the last four years, Democrats are eager to undo that as much as they can or to rebalance the courts as much as they can with their own nominee. So, this is -- one of these areas that actually has a unifying force among Democrats, whereas the legislation last few weeks that we saw did not necessarily have the same effect.

HASAN: And Courtney just picked up on Peter`s point about this being an opportunity for Democrats, this being a unifying force. We`re going to ask Jen Psaki about the nomination just a few minutes, but is there a plan, do you think, emerging within the West Wing to use this nomination, this confirmation hearings that are coming up as a way of winning votes in the midterms, as a way of energizing the base?

SUBRAMANIAN: Well, I think to the extent that it gives them a boost, right, it gives them some breathing room, as Peter suggested, after, you know, a number of setbacks on their agenda with voting rights, you know, also the president`s approval ratings underwater. And also, you know, particularly with the African American community, some advocates who might feel disappointed by the failed push for voting rights. But I don`t know how much this absolutely changes. The picture on midterms for Democrats, particularly because the courts have proven to be an issue that galvanizes GOP voters more than it galvanizes Democratic voters, it gives them some enthusiasm. Of course, they can, you know, do some messaging and fundraising off of this. But heading into the midterms, yes, it`s a win that they can point to, which is something that Democrats need, certainly in the White House needs right now. You know, sort of political lifeline. But you know, long term, looking ahead to November, I`m not sure it changes much.

HASAN: And Barb, how should we assess Justice Breyer`s legacy after 28 years on the bench, and also talk about his comments today calling this a complicated country, and an experiment is still going on?

MCQUADE: His comments today were just lovely. I thought that he really epitomized all of the things that you`ve heard about him being a, you know, a statesman, a pragmatist, courteous, he`s very old school in that way. But I hope that it is not a relic of the past, that can never be replicated. Because having someone, you know, the most important thing he said today, I thought, and this is, I think emblematic of what he stood for is this idea that we have a lot of different people in this country, more than 330 million people in this country, people who are very, very different and have very different perspectives.

And if we continue to beat on each other, you know, just fight within our tribes. We`re not going to succeed. But what`s so remarkable about this experiment in the United States, is that people agree to follow the rule of law. You know, I don`t agree with you, but I am willing to go into a court and have the judge tell us which of us wins this dispute, and I will abide by that ruling. And so that is what has allowed this experiment to work. And I think we`re seeing some of that start to crack, January 6, and other things. And so, we need a report that will reinforce that rule of law.

HASAN: Barb, we`re also seeing a court itself, the Supreme Court that has become so politicized in the last couple of years. And Justice Breyer, when he was doing his book tour last year was trying to defend the court against that. It`ll be interesting to see how it out. You talked about diversity earlier, how an outside voice comes in and shakes that up a bit, at least on the progressive liberal side. That`ll be fascinating to see.

Peter, before we run out of time, Ukraine, today, the Ukrainian President and the United States President had a phone call. Afterwards, the Ukrainian seemed to suggest in their official readouts that the President was saying invasion is guaranteed. Kyiv could be sacked. I`m paraphrasing. The White House National Security Council, no, no, that`s not what Biden said. Are the American and Ukrainian governments on the same page right now in this crucial moment?

BAKER: Well, clearly not in terms of the messaging anyway, I think that what the Ukrainians heard was brace for impact. This is coming. And this is something that the intelligence agencies have been telling the Biden ministration officials now for several weeks. This is not just a possibility that there`s a real, real chance here that Putin is going in, in some fashion or another in a very aggressive way. That`s what the Ukrainians heard from the President today.

It`s kind of important because the Ukrainian leadership has been kind of playing this down a little bit even as the West has been raising alarms and I think that that`s where there`s a little bit of a disconnect between President Biden the President Zelensky. President Zelensky is upset that the Americans have taken their embassy people, some of their embassy people out of the country, saying you`re stirring up something further than it has to be. This can be worked out.

[23:15:14]

And the Americans basically are saying to the Ukrainians take this seriously, we think something bad is about to happen.

HASAN: Yes, and if something is bad about to happen, you want the government`s on the same page.

Peter Baker, Courtney Subramanian, and Barbara McQuade, thank you so much for your time tonight. I appreciate it.

Coming up, the right now, this right now is an extremely critical time for the Biden White House. Press secretary Jen Psaki is standing by live. And later, taking sides in the battle to fill Justice Breyer seat on the bench. Our political experts square off on everything at stake, the 11th Hour just getting underway on Thursday night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN DEESE, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL DIRECTOR: The President`s focused on trying to move the ball forward. And hopefully we can build on a historic year of 2021 and keep this recovery going strong. What we`re going to see is as this economic growth continues, as this economy progresses, we`ll see these prices normalize and people will see that in their pocketbooks as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: The U.S. economy so sizable growth in the fourth quarter of last year. That caps off the strongest year of economic growth in nearly four decades. Yet voters remain pessimistic about the economy. The New York Times puts it this way. "Inflation is running at its fastest pace since 1982, eroding gains and eating away paychecks as even robust wage increases struggled to keep pace. And despite vaccines life has yet to return to normal in the way many people once expected."

[23:20:07]

We`re pleased to welcome to the broadcast tonight White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki. Jen, first off, thanks for staying up late for us. I know you`re a morning person, I`m a night person. So, I`m much more comfortable with this conversation. Let me start with the economy.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I mean, I see if I had too much coffee soon.

HASAN: Let`s see. Let`s see. Here we go.

PSAKI: I`m going to see if I had too much coffee too.

HASAN: It must be frustrating to you.

PSAKI: We`ll see. We`ll see.

HASAN: I don`t do coffee.

PSAKI: We`ll be good, don`t worry, don`t worry.

HASAN: All right, let`s go. It must be frustrating for you to see these record growth numbers, record jobs numbers, and then see a majority of Americans still don`t have confidence in Joe Biden`s handling of the economy. Two out of three Americans think the economy is getting worse, not better. Is that a messaging failure on Joe Biden`s part, on your administration`s part?

PSAKI: It`s a COVID challenge, Mehdi, I mean, look, I think we can celebrate, and I know you just talked a little bit about this, the fact that we haven`t had this kind of economic growth in 37 years, I mean, I was in preschool at that point in time. That`s exciting. We`re growing at a faster rate than China for the first time in 20 years. That`s good. We`re at record low unemployment rates. That`s good. What we also know, though, is that we`re still fighting a pandemic, that is very much tied to inflation, is impacting issues like supply chain challenges we`re seeing around the world and is impacting also the psyche of the American public. And we know that is playing out in terms of how people feel about the economy and how they feel about their circumstances right now.

HASAN: You mentioned the word inflation, you`d include inflation in that as well.

PSAKI: Of course. Look, I think it`s important, though, for people to know and understand inflation is caused by a number of issues. And if we talk about inflation, we really mean the costs and how they`re impacting people in their everyday lives, right? So, if you look at the supply chain, we know that so tied to the pandemic, we`re obviously fighting the Omicron variant right now, the uptick of the Omicron variant, we know that a lot of countries around the world are fighting that. That means that while the global supply chain brings costs down in the United States, if there`s a manufacturing hub that`s shut down in Asia and Malaysia, or China or anywhere, that can mean we won`t get those goods. And that can mean that prices go up.

So, we need to get the pandemic under control from a global perspective in order to make sure supply chains are working as they should. We`ll also getting ports going, which we`ve made a lot of progress on. There are couple of other issues we`ve been working on at the same time. One is 1/3 of the inflationary pressure is the result of cars, car prices, if you`re trying to buy a car right now, they`re expensive. A big part of that is because we`re not manufacturing enough in the -- enough cars in United States, because we don`t have enough chips here, right? We need more manufacturing capacity United States. So that`s something that part of this bill, this competition bill that`s moving its way through Congress, hopefully soon, is going to help solve over the long term, but cars is a big part of it.

The third -- and let me just went to one more piece, Mehdi, because I think you`ll this one, this one is where businesses, big companies, like meat manufacturers and conglomerates are taking advantage of this moment and jacking up prices for consumers. So, we also have to watch that as well. These are all factors that are impacting people`s costs.

HASAN: So, you mentioned getting bills through Congress. Let`s talk Supreme Court and the President`s nominee.

PSAKI: Yeah.

HASAN: According to USA Today since 1975, the average number of days from nomination to final Senate vote was about 68 days. For Justice Amy Coney Barrett was seated in just 27 days. So, will this coming nomination process, is it going to be closer to the average time about two months or more like Coney Barrett less than four weeks?

PSAKI: We`re not looking to set a deadline like that. Here`s what we know, the President`s intending to name a nominee, name a black woman as a nominee to the court in February next month. That`s pretty soon. The process after that what he wants to do is proceed by consultations with the Senate, Democrats and Republicans, because he thinks we should be able to get Republican votes for a qualified nominee to the Supreme Court. But we`re not trying to set an arbitrary timeline or deadline. This is a lifetime appointment. And Justice Breyer also said he would stay until the start of the of the next term.

HASAN: Given Senator Joe Manchin wrecked your voting rights agenda and wrecked your Build Back Better agenda. Are you taking steps to make sure he doesn`t wreck your Supreme Court nominee too? Will you be running the name of that nominee? Past him beforehand to check you have his vote and Senator Sinema`s?

PSAKI: Well, there will be broad consultations, Mehdi, I will tell you I`m not quite as dark as you are about all of this. We still feel that there is a path forward for all of these initiatives. Let me start with Build Back Better, we know we need 50 votes. Obviously, we only have 50 votes. Every single senator has to support an agenda. But there is agreement on some key components, lowering the cost of child care, negotiating prescription drug prices, elder care, that`s good. We`ll see what 50 senators can come to agreement on.

[23:25:03]

On voting rights, we`re going to keep pressing on it. We can`t give up. But yes, there`s going to be consultations but we`re not just betting on supply from just Democrats. We believe we can -- we should be able to get some Republicans because if we nominate an eminently qualified nominee, which the President has every intention of doing, that`s something that we`re going to consult with, and we`re going to push for votes from both sides.

HASAN: You mentioned voting rights. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was on the show last night, and she said that the President came too late to the fight on voting rights, and especially the filibuster that he dragged his feet, she said, and it`s kind of hard to disagree with that. This is you, Jen, speaking on the President`s behalf last March. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does the President have any thoughts on the filibuster, the so-called filibuster, especially now that some more moderate Democrats are now saying that they would like to see some filibuster reform?

PSAKI: His view and his position hasn`t changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: Jen, why wait almost a year to change his view and come out so publicly against the filibuster to give the rousing speech in Atlanta that he finally gave this month. We lost all of 2021 while he waited for bipartisanship?

PSAKI: Well, first, Mehdi, that wasn`t the first speech on voting rights he gave hardly. He gave a number of speeches last year, he also signed the historic of voting rights executive order.

HASAN: First time he came up so explicitly on the filibuster on voting rights.

PSAKI: I`m getting there. I agree with you, Mehdi, I agree with you. I`m getting there. But it`s important for people to know and understand. He also signed a historic executive order and voting rights within the first few weeks of taking office. I think the argument that if he had gone a year earlier, and came out against the filibuster would have changed the votes or the views of Senator Sinema and Senator Manchin, we have not seen that play out to be fact, it`s also true that there were others who may not have been for changes to the filibuster earlier on who came around and are more united around that.

So, now we`ve -- we`re building support, we have to keep fighting and keep at it. But that but voting rights legislation and fighting for that is something the President has been doing long before he was inaugurated for decades now in public life, and he`s going to keep fighting for it.

HASAN: But you`re telling me, this debate over the filibuster, we have this vote on the filibuster, finally in the Senate, on the eve of his year in office, which fails? I`m not saying they would have changed their minds earlier. But you`re telling me, if you hadn`t come out earlier as the President of the United States with the bully pulpit, the leader of the Democratic Party? How do you not come out 3, 6, 9 months earlier and said, we need to get this filibuster out of the way for voting rights, that wouldn`t have helped?

PSAKI: Would it have changed the minds of the two senators who were not for changing the roles in the Senate? I don`t think we have any evidence of that. And in fact, it may have had the opposite impact on others.

Look, I think ultimately here, the President has been very clear. He gave a very passionate speech just two weeks ago, about his openness to changing roles, changing Senate rules, the fact that process should not get in the way of progress. That is very much where his heart is and what he believes. He also gave a number of speeches on voting rights last year.

Now, what we have to do is figure out what the path forward is. There`s a legislative path, we want legislation to get done. The Justice Department has also doubled their voter protection, funding. That`s important. There`s a lot of work that`s going to happen from the DNC and the party committees. There`s a lot of work that`s happening with groups on the ground, and we have to keep fighting for voting laws in the States.

HASAN: Just on Ukraine, it was reported today that according to a Ukrainian official during President Biden`s call with President Zelensky today, President Biden said a Russian invasion is now virtually certain, wants to ground freezes. And to prepare for impact. The National Security Council denied this thing, "President Biden said that there`s a distinct possibility that the Russians could invade Ukraine in February reports of anything more or different than that are completely false. Where is this confusion on a crucial issue? Where is it coming from, the Ukrainian President Biden?

PSAKI: Well, I believe the Ukrainians have come out since then, and conveyed that anonymous sources, not one they stand by. But most importantly, I`d note the President`s been saying we`ve been saying for a week now that the Russians could invade at any time. We don`t know we`re not in the minds of President Putin blissfully, thank goodness, I don`t want to be in his mind. But what`s important for people to look at is not rhetoric or back and forth. But 100,000 troops, more than 100,000 troops are building up at the border. There are military exercises around and other countries. The Ukrainians have been welcoming our security assistance, and even meeting us at the airport to welcome it and asking for more. So, what we`re doing right now is planning for all scenarios. But we`re also the diplomatic path. No question, Mehdi, we want to avoid this. That`s our preference.

HASAN: In terms of planning, first of all, we`re out of time, but I got to ask on the subject of doing things differently, maybe on COVID, your administration has a great record and vaccinations, I give you that. But not on testing. In fact, last month, you got pilloried for saying this on the subject of rapid tests, have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why not just make them free and give them out, and have them available everywhere?

[23:30:02]

PSAKI: Should we just send once every American?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: Jen, you are now sending out rapid tests for free to every American, thankfully. I just got an email telling me, I`m getting mine this Saturday. In hindsight, do you regret saying that? And does the White House regret not sending those tests out sooner?

PSAKI: Well, I said at that time, Mehdi, that what I learned, and I learned every day is that I always wish I could add more context or say things more clearly. And what you didn`t capture there is everything I said on testing and the rest of the briefing, which I certainly understand, I should have added more context in that moment, what we`re doing is we`re sending test to everybody who wants a test that is not every American, because we`re not doing that, because that would waste a lot of tests. And we want test to go to the people that want them. But the good news is, is that this program is working. We`re sending tests out more quickly than we thought we would be able to, we weren`t ever going to send them out until the end of the month. They`ve already been going out. People are already posting their test they`re receiving online. That`s great news. And we`re going to -- and we ordered an additional 500 million tests so we can keep getting them out to people`s homes.

HASAN: Jen Psaki, we`ll have to leave it there. We are grateful to you for joining us tonight. Thank you.

PSAKI: Thank you, Mehdi.

HASAN: Coming up, we heard what the White House wants. Now, we`ll be up to the usual suspects to weigh in. What to watch for next, when the 11th Hour continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERCHEVAL: It would not bother you if the nominee was more liberal or far more liberal than you?

MANCHIN: Well, it`s not too hard to get more liberal than me. So, it would not bother me, having a person who was sound in their thought process have been sound in their disbursement of justice and the rule of law, just because of their personal beliefs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: Democrats have grown accustomed to Senators Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema blocking much of the President`s agenda. This time, there`s hope within the party that Biden`s pick for the Supreme Court will buck that trend. New York Magazine points out, "While it would be natural for some in the Democratic base, to fear that those senators would similarly block a Supreme Court nominee, the senators have supported every single Biden judicial nominee so far and look ready to help the President fulfill his promise from the 2020 presidential primary of putting the first black woman on the court."

With us tonight, Juanita Tolliver, a Veteran Political Strategist to progressive candidates and causes. And Mark McKinnon, former Adviser to both George W. Bush and John McCain. He`s also among the co-hosts of the Circus on Showtime. Thank you both for joining me. Juanita, let me start with you. What do you make of Joe Biden`s policies historic promise to appoint a black woman? And now the rather offensive response from some on the right that he`s pandering by making that promise and that the appointment would be tokenistic or not based on merit?

JUANITA TOLLIVER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, let`s remember where the President was when he made this commitment. I believe he was in February, late February, right before the South Carolina primary. And he needed to make an appeal. And this was the appeal he went with knowing that it would energize black and brown voters across South Carolina, the same voters who revitalized his campaign under the guidance of representative Clyburn.

And so, I think that him making good on this promise is something that will also be another moment where he can tap into and at least create additional momentum among black and brown voters. Because this is something after the Voting Rights failure that needs to happen, must happen. So, his full- throated response and reminder to folks that he will make good on this is critical.

Now, the criticism we`re hearing is going to be rooted in the same white supremacy that we see from the right every single day. We saw it with Vice President Harris on the 2020 campaign trail. And we`re going to see even more of that now. We`re already seeing it. And the nominee hasn`t even been named because the assumption that the Supreme Court is a reserved space for white or white adjacent people, particularly men, is what has been the guiding light up until what? The 60s. And so, this is going to make a lot of people upset. And with that in mind, Democrats need to figure out how they are going to protect this nominee because she is going to be in for a world of hatred, racism and misogyny directed all at her from all angles and protecting her with clear communication and clear efforts and campaigns is going to be essential.

HASAN: I think worse than the people who are upset and racist, the people who were just cynical about all this just playing a political game.

Mark, this is a headline from the Washington Post in 1980. Reagan pledges he would name a woman to the Supreme Court, and he did Sandra Day O`Connor, Trump made the same pledge and appointed Amy Coney Barrett, why is this such a double standard when Biden makes the pledge? Is it because he`s a Democrat? Or because it`s a black woman?

MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISER TO JOHN MCCAIN & GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, listen, I think that this is a -- is the right pick. I think it`s a smart pick. It is -- maintained at campaign pleasure was a central part of his platform was when he just pointed out. I think the blowback so far as is what we`d expect. I don`t think it`s going to -- I think it`s going to be at the end of the day, there will be a nominal fight over the over Biden`s pick. But I think that Joe Manchin will be aboard, I think Kyrsten Sinema will be aboard, and I wouldn`t be surprised to see as many as five or more Republican senators aboard as well.

Listen, this is something that is overdue. His time and it was a campaign pledge and for any member of the United States Congress on either side of the aisle to suggest that that African American woman is not qualified to be on Supreme Court is not qualified to be the United States Congress.

HASAN: Well said. Juanita, Joe Manchin, we`ve talked about Joe Manchin a lot on this show, on this network. He has responded positively so far to the Supreme Court appointments story, but he hasn`t budged on bill back. But I just spoke to Jen Psaki, he said, she still has faith that it`s going to get done. Maybe this is why Joe Manchin, one of the reasons he may not like build that better from CNBC today, "Republican billionaire Ken Langone donated to Joe Manchin`s PAC after senator opposed Biden`s Build Back Better Act.

We know a lot of rich folks have given money to Manchin and I said explicitly, it`s because he stood up to things like Build Back Better. What`s your reaction to that news?

TOLLIVER: This should surprise no one, especially as we heard how those negotiations went especially how Manchin unceremoniously went on Fox Network to say he just couldn`t do it, to be rewarded by Republicans is something he`s getting used to.

[23:40:06]

I think also recommend recognizing the other financial ties that hampered his ability to negotiate on Build Back Better, especially with the clean energy programs that were proposed, have all just pinpointed the fact that the people especially West Virginians who desperately need these types of investments are not his priority. And they haven`t been his priority. I think that came out again in the negotiations over the filibuster, when apparently it depended on which donor Manchin talk to less that he will come back to folks like Schumer and Senator Kane with additional questions, right? It has been a guiding light for him, and it will continue to be as they take up other provisions of Build Back Better.

So, I think folks should wrap their heads around the reality that Build Back Better in its current form will not get passed Manchin and it`s time to start looking at individual provisions that Democrats across the country can hold up and herald his victories as we got to the midterms.

HASAN: Juanita and Mark, do please stay with us. We`ve got a lot more to talk about.

Coming up, why some voters like the idea of a Republican presidential candidate, but not so much an actual real life Republican candidate when the 11th Hour continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HASAN: We`re more than two years away from the next presidential election. But the polling is already well underway. When morning console asked voters who they would vote for in a hypothetical 2024 matchup they picked a generic Republican candidate over Joe Biden by nine points. But it`s not all bad news for Democrats. The President beat every single specific Republican named in the poll. If voters went to the polls today Biden would edge out Donald Trump by a single point. Mike Pence by two points. Ron DeSantis by five and good old Ted Cruz by six.

Still with us, Juanita Tolliver and Mark McKinnon. Mark, what`s the deal with that polling voters would be perfectly happy with President generic Republican over President Biden but not President Trump or President DeSantis?

[23:45:06]

MCKINNON: I think this is a fascinating poll, Mehdi, the -- I think the conventional wisdom is that the Joe Biden and Democrats are in terrible shape. And that would be soundly, Trump, soundly beaten but soundly trounced by any Republican candidate in 2024. It`s a long way off, obviously. But the notion is that -- I mean, Joe Biden, it could get worse for Joe Biden, but it`s hard to imagine. I think it`s easy to argue that he`s probably at a low point in his presidency, and likely only to get better. And yet, even at this low point, when there`s barely any light in the tunnel, Joe Biden beats all comers. I mean, nobody`s going to be on the ballot name, generic, their name is going to be either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz or whoever it might be. But there`s got to be a person and when you put up an actual, and what I think is going on here is that people elected Joe Biden to turn the page on Donald Trump and the problem of the Republican Party, my old party that I`ve been arguing for a long time is they got, they have to put Donald Trump in the rearview mirror and said they have on the windshield. Every one of those candidates is genuflecting to Donald Trump, or even worse running to the right of Donald Trump. Like Ron DeSantis is, the governor of Florida.

HASAN: I mean, we know Mike Pence still wouldn`t disown Donald Trump even after Trump refused to say anything bad about the people are trying to kill him. But there you go. Juanita, voters still like the idea of a Republican Party that doesn`t exist, it seems.

TOLLIVER: It`s a figment of their imaginations at this point, Mehdi. You`re right, like, as Mark said, people voted for Biden to get rid of Trump, that 2020 election was less about Biden, and more about removing Trump and the harmful policies that he implemented, and getting back to some degree of normalcy, which Biden is still working on achieving as the pandemic rages. And that`s a big part of why I think his polling numbers are still underwater.

Another big reason why I think Biden`s approval numbers are underwater is, as you discussed with Jen Psaki, even with all of these economic gains, that he shouldn`t be celebrating historic growth, historic job creation are all amazing things that let`s be real overshadow anything Trump was able to do in the White House. But on top of all of that, you still have a pandemic that won`t quit, and you still have Americans feeling financially vulnerable. Because with all of those positive economic indicators, it takes a while for that to reach regular people or low-income people or people just trying to put food on the table. And once that lag catches up, I think it`ll be brighter days for Biden in the White House.

HASAN: Mark, the DCCC, the Democratic Congressional Campaign committee`s allocating more resources to incumbents in tough races. But the news is all bad for Democrats. Again, NBC News reports, "Democrats also voiced some optimism, saying they`ve identified more than a dozen new congressional districts they consider to be in play because of redistricting, bringing the total to 38."

Is there any chance, Mark, the Democrats buck, the midterm tradition of the President`s party losing seats in the midterms? We know only once in recent memory, your old boss, George Bush in 2002, post 9/11 was able to buck that trend. Is there any chance of Joe Biden`s party doing that this year, do you think?

MCKINNON: No, in a word. It really isn`t. I mean, this is, you know, George Bush did it once. It`s only happened a few times in the last 100 years, when a party retains the house. And George Bush did just post 9/11 when he had favorable ratings in the 90s. So, listen, just historically, the trends are not good. I think in the moment, it`s a difficult time for Joe Biden. So, I think that just realistically, you have to say that it`s unlikely. But to Juanita`s point, and to some of the data that you`re pointing out from the DCCC, things are getting better, though not likely to get worse. I mean, COVID is likely to receive the -- those economic factors are likely to get even better than they are and people become more cognizant of them as they`re less focused on COVID.

So, I think the picture will get better than it is now. And then again, as I said longer term, as I think Democrats and the economy get to kick in and some of the programs of Joe Biden, people see the tangible results. Again, as I said that polling today really surprised me because it showed that it is worse point. And the worst point for Democrats right now they beat any Republican that put on the ballot. So, if it gets better from here on out, and maybe it`ll be somebody besides Biden with more energy for the Democrats as the nominee for Democrats, so the picture just seems to get brighter in the tunnel.

HASAN: It is interesting subject, I wish we had time to discuss, another time, we`re at a time now. Juanita Tolliver and Mark McKinnon, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Coming up, new reporting from the frontline in Ukraine as tensions with Russia grow by the day. That`s when the 11th Hour continues, don`t go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:53:00]

HASAN: As Russia beefs up its military presence along the Ukrainian border, life in that neighboring country appears to be continuing as much as it has over the past several years. NBC Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel is on the ground in Ukraine following this story for us tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This may be Russia`s way of showing, it didn`t like the United States written answers to Russia`s demand that NATO leave Eastern Europe and bar Ukraine.

New live fire drills near Ukraine, more jets into Belarus and naval exercises in the Baltic Sea. President Biden called Ukraine`s President Zelensky who`s receiving U.S. weapons. But President Biden has said repeatedly no American troops are heading his way.

On the call President Biden pledged additional economic support. On Ukraine`s frontline in the east, the troops are remarkably come. On watch, but many here seem to be following their government`s line that there`s no great reason for concern.

We`re in good spirits and we have no problems, says Valentin (ph). Ukraine has already been in a low-level war out here in the east for eight years. Emptying out so-called frontline ghost villages. There used to be 3000 people here. We found three women, all Russian speakers. None wants Putin to invade.

We live in Ukraine. We don`t need Russia, says Tatiana (ph). Yet Russia continues to mass in force, upwards of 120,000 troops now and significantly more intelligence officials say coming next week.

(On camera): NATO is trying to show a united front in support of Ukraine but there are divisions. Germany is refusing to send combat weapons instead he`s sending 5000 helmets. The Mayor of Kyiv expressed outrage asking what are they going to send next, pillows? Richard Engel, NBC News, Eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[23:55:08]

HASAN: Coming up, another episode of We Watch, So You Don`t Have To, the new fictional outrage on the right getting them all worked up now, when the 11th Hour continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: The Brown M&M has "transition from high stilettos to lower block heels. Also, less sexy. That`s progress. M&M`s will not be satisfied until every last cartoon character is deeply unappealing."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: The Last Thing Before We Go Tonight, Tucker, I`m no longer attracted to M&M`s Colson received a lot of his attention, received a lot of attention for his bizarre rant against M&M wardrobe changes last week, but now the woke police have come up with another way of changing beloved cartoon characters and Fox predictably has taught our friends at the recount put together a sampling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Minnie Mouse has go and woke, for the first time ever she`s going to be wearing a pantsuit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disney is totally changing Minnie Mouse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ditching her iconic dress for a pantsuit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Business attire. They`re trying to destroy fabrics of our society.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you see a woman in a pantsuit inside Disney`s Hall of Presidents it`s not Hillary vandalizing the Trump statue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Disneyland, the woke is place on earth.

Male: Yeah, that`s right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN: For the record Minnie`s pantsuit was designed by fashion icon, Stella McCartney, we should all be so lucky.

That is our broadcast for this Thursday night, with our thanks for being with us. On behalf of all of my colleagues at the networks of NBC News, good night.