Summary
Jury selection is underway in Oath Keepers sedition trial. January 6 Committee to show clips from Roger Stone documentary. January 6 Committee postpones public hearing. Pete Buttigieg slams Abbott, DeSantis migrant stunts and says it`s hurting people to get attention. Florida braces as powerful storms approaches.
Transcript
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Good day. I`m Ari Melber. Nicolle Wallace is off today, so the news for you is we are doing a two-hour edition of THE BEAT live. I hope you stay with me.
We`re covering this news due to the hurricane bearing down on parts of Florida. The January 6 Select Committee has taken a step to reschedule what was going to be their final hearing, so that will no longer be held tomorrow in Congress.
We have a lot of news, though, that we`re tracking, including former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman making waves with his new book that is revealing some of what the committee found, what he says is important to understand even as he has clashed with some of the committee members.
Tonight also, I have for you a special report on the rise of fascism at home and abroad, including some new election results out of Europe that if you haven`t heard about them, they are super important. We are going to get into that.
We begin with something that is not the committee`s work. We talk about January 6th, but the work of the prosecutors in the criminal investigations, jury selection for the trial of Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes and four other members of that militia for their involvement in the deadly insurrection.
Rhodes and the others face the most serious charge leveled against anyone involved in any of this seditious conspiracy. It can carry up to 20 years. The government indicted these individuals and made its case that Rhodes and the co-conspirators planned to stop the lawful and peaceful transfer of power with multiple ways to deploy force.
They coordinated going to Washington, they equipped themselves with weapons, they had combat and tactical gear, and they were all answer to Rhodes`s call to take up arms. Now, all five of these individuals have plead not guilty, and they are legally presumed guilty going through this trial.
Rhodes`s attorney say he will argue that the plot, while there was coordination, they can`t deny that given the evidence, that the plot was a plan that they didn`t view as something illegal, that they wanted to take an action if called upon in some quasi legal way if Donald Trump invoke martial law, the Insurrection Act, that kind of thing.
"The New York Times" has described the defense as both novel and risky. The "Times" says what to expect will be a government presentation with testimony from cooperating witnesses, recordings, reams of encrypted chats that Rhodes and the others exchanged, and that this trial is a big one.
So, we talked about many different aspects of these probes. Nicolle has tracked the accountability and how high it goes. Well, this is something where no matter what else happens, the trial, which could last many weeks of these individuals for sedition, is going to be one of the biggest criminal legal outcomes of this entire probe regardless of what happens in the future, and that means there is a lot riding on it for the government, which says they have a strong case.
Let`s get right into it with one of our power panels. I`m joined by NBC justice reporter Ryan Reilly outside that federal courthouse, Ryan Goodman, a former special counsel at DOD, an NYU law professor, and the co-editor- in-chief for Just Security is also one of his titles. Everyone`s got a lot of titles. Kimberly Atkins Stohr is also here from "The Boston Globe."
I want to welcome everyone and get right to you, Ryan. What`s happening?
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: I`m so sorry, that`s my fault. I want to go to Ryan Reilly at the courthouse, and I won`t do it again. One of two Ryans. Go ahead, Mr. Reilly.
RYAN REILLY, NBC NEWS JUSTICE REPORTER: No worry. This is a big trial, right? So, like you sort of laid out, this is going to take a very long time. So, jury selection is going to take a very long time itself because you have to seat so many jurors who could be waived because everyone is going to get those strikes, right?
After they qualify jurors, everyone is going to get those strikes. We have many defendants. That`s a lot of strikes. You got to get up to that pretty big number in order to get a number of jurors that you`re going to be able to qualify for such a large trial that could last over six weeks.
[17:04:54]
So, what I`m always fascinated by in this January 6th jury panel selections is just the cross section of D.C. that you get where you get everyone from someone who worked at on Capitol Hill, who used to work on Capitol Hill who has a lot of friends who still work on Capitol Hill, who knew a lot of reporters on Capitol Hill.
On the one side, you get a former army -- someone in the army who only moved to D.C. very recently and went on a tour of the Capitol as a kid. And then you get someone who doesn`t really follow the news very closely but does have a child who is incarcerated and has some experience with the criminal justice system that way.
So, you really do get just a sense of how diverse of a background key folks in D.C. have and what they`re bringing to this. What we see in these trials to date so far, and you see this in the jury that had been set out, is that jurors are taking their jobs very seriously.
There is this -- a lot of the January 6th supporters who have been supporting some of the defendants will say that the juries are unfair here. But you really do see them taking their jobs seriously just based on the jury notes that you see in a lot of these other trials.
When we get to that stage of this trial, I`m very curious to see what sort of notes we`re going to get back because every indication that we`ve had so far is that juries are taking their jobs very seriously and asking very inquisitive questions that really get to the heart of a lot of the charging issues at play here, Ari.
MELBER: Yeah, I appreciate your reporting there reminding us of the human aspect of that. The jury is the bedrock and the check on government power in this case.
Ryan Goodman, we don`t see sedition cases very often in America. And the conversation lately, we mentioned the hearing and the postponing of the January 6th hearing, the questions about Georgia and whether they will go up the line. And yet, as I mentioned, even if you don`t go up the line, this would seem to be a pretty big deal and the government definitely sees this as a priority.
RYAN GOODMAN, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL TO DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE GENERAL COUNSEL, NYU LAW PROFESSOR, CO-EDITOR-IN-CHIEF FOR JUST SECURITY: Yeah, I totally agree. I think that it`s important to the historical record. If they succeed in a conviction, then history will look back at the moment and understand it more firmly as having been a seditious conspiracy and an attempt to violently overthrow the government or interfere with the peaceful transfer of power. And it should be very dramatic.
The "Times" is also reporting that the leader of the Oath Keepers, Stewart Rhodes, is going to take the stand in his defense.
I think at the end of the day, the government has an extraordinarily strong case against them, but I do think exactly, as you put it, with a jury deciding whether or not beyond a reasonable doubt these individuals have been guilty of the conspiracy to overthrow the government is hugely important. We have three of the Oath Keepers who have pled guilty to seditious conspiracy already, but this is much more important.
MELBER: Kimberly, take a listen now. Jamie Raskin describes some of the related conduct.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Members of domestic violence extremist groups created an alliance both online and in person to coordinate a massive effort to storm, invade, and occupy the Capitol. By placing a target on the joint session of Congress, Trump had mobilized these groups around a common goal, emboldening them, strengthening their working relationships, and helping build their numbers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Kimberly, there is an overlap here between the investigation and narrative, whatever you want to call it, coming out of the committee, and then what Ryan Goodman referred to, which is this higher standard of proof that is going to be required in this trial. What do you see as important sort of in the extra legal and nonlegal ways that this trial will matter and set a precedent of sorts no matter what the verdict is?
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR, SENIOR OPINION WRITER FOR THE BOSTON GLOBE AND THE EMANCIPATOR: Well, it is definitely going to matter. Yes, this trial is wholly different from the congressional investigation although they`re both underlying -- the events underlying them both are the same.
But I agree with Ryan in this case that it`s very important to get a verdict for the American people to understand exactly what happened here. And I think that in this case, sometimes this case can be very complex, particularly criminal cases, but this one is pretty simple.
As you laid it out in the beginning, there was a coordinated effort on the part of Rhodes and the Oath Keepers to create -- not just come to Washington, not just come armed, but to create two separate teams to storm the Capitol.
And this defense that they`re putting up saying no, we didn`t think we were breaking the law, we thought that Donald Trump was going to invoke the Insurrection Act, and we were there to support him if we were called up in the event that that happened, it`s not just risky, it`s nonsensical.
First of all, the president never invoked the Insurrection Act. Secondly, even if he did, they are not members of the military or any authorized force that the president could authorize to be armed and to act on that behalf. If anything, by making that defense, they could be causing some trouble for Donald Trump.
I don`t know if he is being investigated for, say incitement, but if they are saying we did this, we committed this act because Donald Trump told us to, that not only is a defense for them, it could be inculpatory to the role that Donald Trump played in all of this.
[17:10:08]
So, it is a very big trial and it is very important, and we`ll see what happens.
MELBER: Yeah. I want to thank Ryan Reilly who is posted up there doing the court reporting. So, thank you. I will come back to you, I imagine, throughout the trial. I want to have Ryan Goodman take a listen to something that is coming out in the Roger Stone tapes. We got a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): So that`s the concept. Has it been pitched to the president?
ROGER STONE, TRUMP ALLY: Yes, it has. I believe the president is for it. The obstacles are these lily-livered, weak-kneed bureaucrats in the White House counsel`s office, and now they must be crushed because they told the president something that is not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: I`m curious, Ryan Goodman, what you think of the way some of the self-propaganda, self-aggrandizing of certain individuals play into this. It`s rather remarkable because you can`t even tell on the 5th that the morning of the 6th with some of the footage if they knew just how far this was going to go.
Kimberly mentioned things that could be inculpatory. I mean, that`s one thing they might point to, we were just messing around, we had no idea, and yet it seems that some of the strongest evidence comes from the mouths of these individuals.
GOODMAN: Yeah, I completely agree. And from the mouth of Roger Stone, it`s really incredible. He is also obviously also anticipating or celebrating violence in some of these videos that we`re getting, the footage from the Dutch filmmakers and is obviously not deterred by White House counsel or other lawyers telling them that their actions are illegal.
And so whatever performance he might be trying to put on, it certainly seems consistent within what transpires in the events of January 6th and attempt to overturn the election. And it`s just remarkable to think that we`re having this conversation, talking both about this historic case of a seditious conspiracy being brought against the Oath Keepers and there is also Roger Stone on January 6th surrounded by Oath Keepers as his bodyguards.
So, these are all coming together in a pretty important way and maybe it`s going to be up to the Justice Department- to finally tie any of these threads together.
MELBER: Kimberly?
ATKINS STOHR: Yeah, I think that`s exactly right. I mean, I think this is one of those cases that for folks like you and me who have been looking at this from the beginning, it seemed that all of the pieces were there, and it was almost frustrating when they weren`t being put together in the way that they seem to be coming together now.
I think both with these criminal prosecutions, with the criminal pleas that we`ve seen, as well as the work of the January 6 Committee, it has sort of -- as well as the actions by the DOJ, it has sort of begun to crystallize in a way that makes it very clear what is happening, and we have to hope that the courts follow through and that justice is done.
MELBER: And Ryan, in the trial evidence, they have these messages we referred to that really show, A, a lot of violent talk leading up to it, civil war, et cetera, and then B, a fairly in-touch operational mode. I mean, I can`t imagine before cell phones that you would usually have this level of real-time coordination. How does that strengthen prosecutors` hands even with, for example, some jury who says, well, was it an out-of- control riot?
GOODMAN: The encrypted messages that they have obtained are very significant and I think will also puncture a hole in this line of defense that Stewart Rhodes is trying to put on. So, for example, in the indictment, I felt one of the bombshell communications between the Oath Keepers is 1:30 p.m., Stewart Rhodes says essentially to his leadership cell that Trump is not going to act, so it`s now up to the patriots, and then they stormed the Capitol, the Oath Keepers do, after that point.
And so, it`s like you really -- you were waiting or the Insurrection Act? We have your encrypted communications saying Trump is not acting, it`s up to us. So, I think that kind of damning evidence is going to give the prosecutors a very strong hand.
And I agree with everything Kimberly said as well. Even if they were trying to mount and succeeded in mounting this line of defense, it`s actually another defense at the end of the day, just the exact way in which Kimberly put it. So, I think the two together, these communications that we have, real-time communications with a defense that`s not actually a defense, I think the writing is on the wall, but we`ll have to see how the trial plays out.
MELBER: Certainly. And if they achieve convictions, what does that do? In the government`s eyes, what deterrence does that set for what we still hear around the country, which is a lot of violent rhetoric and talk about the next one?
GOODMAN: That, I think, should weigh on everybody`s minds.
[17:14:54]
I think it`s good to focus on the ongoing threat, the rise of fascism around the world, as you indicated you`re going to be talking about later - -
MELBER: Yeah.
GOODMAN: -- in the show and what we see in our own country. And this kind of bringing the full force of the law to bear on this kind of militia group for trying to use violence to prevent American voters from choosing their leaders, I think is extremely important to sending a signal to these kinds of actors and wannabes now and in the future.
MELBER: Go ahead, Kimberly.
ATKINS STOHR: I was going to say 20 years is a long time. That`s a significant sentence and that`s what they could be looking at. So, I agree with that.
MELBER: Yeah. Kimberly Atkins, Ryan Goodman, I want to thank both you have for joining me here as we keep an eye on that trial and how important it is. I believe, Kimberly, we`ll see you later in the program.
When we return, Republicans on Capitol Hill are trying to undermine their own colleagues in the January 6 Committee. There is now a conspiracy theory that one Kentucky congressman is pushing that got a rebuke from Jamie Raskin himself. You`re going hear that new response.
And another Democrat who has been working on these far right talking points and a lot of the immigration issues is Pete Buttigieg. He went after DeSantis and Abbott over what he says is a policy battle. He doesn`t want to do the politics, but the policy here is, he says, these people are playing with human lives.
And as mentioned, hurricane Ian is headed towards the gulf coast of Florida. We have an update for you so you know exactly what is coming to that part of the country. Stay with us.
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MELBER: We have seen many different efforts by Republicans to try to go after the results of the facts coming out of the January 6 committee. And that`s not always how Congress has to work. You can have plenty of policy debates. The 9/11 commission finds something. What should you do about it? But here we`re seeing more attacks on the basic facts themselves.
[17:19:56]
Take Congressman Thomas Massie, who was at a Judiciary Committee hearing and brought up this debunked conspiracy theory that a man named Ray Epps, a Trump supporter, worked with the FBI to fake the Capitol attack. I mentioned 9/11, both of these were national security disasters, this would be a little bit like saying the thing that everyone lived through and watched on video that was real was actually this fake conspiracy theory. They used to call those people truthers.
Here is Congressman Jamie Raskin going after not only that lie, but what he says has been a parade of irresponsible lies over the past 14 months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RASKIN: It was vetoed by the cult leader Donald Trump who said he wanted no investigation at all. That`s your guy, Donald Trump. He said he wanted no investigation. And so, you pulled the plug on the investigation you originally advocated because Donald Trump didn`t want it. Let`s tell some truth. We ended up with a bipartisan committee of people really interested in getting to the facts. And you know what? This is what you guys can`t stand. America listened to it because we had real congressional hearings, unlike what goes on here with the temper tantrums and (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Jamie Raskin laid it all out. We are joined by one of his colleagues, Democratic Congressman Peter Welch from Vermont. He is on the House Intelligence on Oversight and Reform Committee, so he knows these areas. And he is also the Democratic nominee for the Senate, running in Vermont. Welcome back.
REP. PETER WELCH (D-VT): Good to be you.
MELBER: Do you agree with what your colleague said?
WELCH: I do. You know what it epitomizes is Donald trump began the lie, the stop the steal lie. It culminated in January 6th. But actually, that was the end of the beginning, because when you go back, even before he won in the Hillary election, he was indicating he was going to contest the election because it was rigged. Of course, he won, so he was okay with that outcome. But then he began the same thing before the votes were even counted.
So essentially, he has created this reality for a lot of folks who support him, right or wrong, including Tom Massie. So, this is what the January 6th commission, I think, is really helping us expose, that this was not a spontaneous event. It was not imaginary. We saw just in that clip folks climbing into the Capitol.
But this was actually premeditated. It was planned. There was an effort to intimidate the vice president and electors, and they were also planning on getting false electors to be certified.
MELBER: Yeah. And also, in the angry conspiracy theory-driven lies, you actually can see the outlines of what is indefensible even in today`s Republican Party. So, as you know, let`s say you`re here and you walk out with one of these pens, or even a whole mug, and someone says, congressman, I think you walked out with the pen, your defense maybe, so what if I did? It`s not a big deal, right?
When you`re accused of, as they are, this insurrection and they need to say either somebody else did it, there was an initial effort to say it was Antifa dressed up in red caps, or this thing is all a hoax, does that also suggests that somehow between the investigation, the commission, the reporting, the independent press, it`s not workable on the right to say that happened and they did that, they don`t want to own it?
WELCH: It`s not workable with Trump. Essentially, what Trump is doing is denying the reality of what we all saw with our own eyes and experienced. And the basic argument is that it`s not a legitimate system. That`s essentially what he is saying, unless he wins.
And his supporters are buying that in part because they`re now led to believe by Trump that anything is justified if it keeps the other side out of power.
So, the ends justify the means here and it is catastrophic to the well- being of our democracy if we don`t accept what has always been our guide, and that`s a peaceful transfer of power.
MELBER: Right. Then you go to the security that day. This is reporting, new from the "Times," that the committee has been debating whether to highlight certain information about the attack. Some members and staff want to hold a hearing that would just highlight the extensive work they`ve done investigating a law enforcement failure, as you see here on the screen, that related to the assault. Others argue doing so would take attention off Mr. Trump.
You don`t have to be on the committee, but is this a legitimate challenge for democratic lawmakers that yes, you`re going into the midterms, Biden, your president, seems to think talking about Trump and semi-fascism is winning, is helpful to draw the contrast? But don`t you and this Congress have an obligation to deal with everything the committee found that matters for safety and security even if, again, reading from this reporting -- quote, unquote -- "it would take attention off trump?"
WELCH: Well, we do. But there really are two separate issues here. If there are law enforcement failures, let`s examine them so we can harden the defenses.
[17:24:55]
But on the other hand, if there is an assault on the election outcome, there is an effort to really insurrect -- have an insurrection to overturn the peaceful transfer of power, that is existential to the future of our democratic society. And that`s true whether it`s Republicans or Democrats who are coming to Congress to have the electors validate what the citizens decided. That`s the heart of this issue.
And there`s no truth with the Trump presidency. I mean, he denies that it happened even though he was the one who executed it. There were a lot of people who were involved. But everything that is turning up with the January 6th investigation comes back to the person who was a central player, and that was Donald Trump.
MELBER: Yeah. Then we have these midterms. We`re now really in the heart of it. You`re running for, as mentioned, Senate. What are voters talking to you about? Is it all this D.C. Stuff? Is it also inflation? What else is in your view key to your midterm messages because you`re in them?
WELCH: Well, there are two things, okay? There is a lot of concern about the economy and about inflation, about climate change, about reproductive freedom. These are incredibly important issues. But in Vermont, people have a real understanding that in order for us to resolve these challenges that society always faces, the tool we have to do it is a democracy.
And a big issue of concern for many people in Vermont is making certain that we restore and strengthen our democratic institutions. That`s really what`s at stake in this election. The people who get elected to Congress and to the Senate are going to be the electors in the next presidential election.
MELBER: Right. That`s fair.
WELCH: We have 100 -- over 100 candidates running on the republican side for U.S. Senate, for Congress, for governor, for secretary of state whose campaign is stop the steal. So, what does that say about what would happen --
MELBER: Right.
WELCH: -- when they have responsibility to certify an election?
MELBER: Sitting with you about what you`re talking to voters about because that`s really happening now, and the question whether some of those individuals get their hands on the partisan machinery of elections. If you won, of course, I don`t know that you`d be as famous as the other Vermont senator, Bernie Sanders, can you handle that?
(LAUGHTER)-
WELCH: We`ll see.
MELBER: We`ll see.
WELCH: I hope.
MELBER: Or do you hope to eclipse him? I mean, he has got a "Saturday Night Live" impression and everything.
WELCH: You know what? Bernie and I have been in politics forever, and he is not a shy guy. I don`t think that will change.
MELBER: Expound on that. What do you mean he is not shy?
(LAUGHTER)
WELCH: I don`t think you need no expounding when it comes to Bernie. He says what`s on his mind.
MELBER: Would you say that if that`s the slate, Vermont would have a more progressive senator in him than in you?
WELCH: No. I think progressive is standing up for democracy. Bernie and I are arm in arm. He has got a unique style. He has made what I think is an extraordinary contribution to the democratic debate. He has moved working class issues front and center.
MELBER: Clearly.
WELCH: And that has been tremendous. That comes from his two presidential campaigns. But we have worked together very closely from when I was in the state Senate, he was in Congress, and I look forward to working very closely with Bernie in the Senate.
MELBER: All very interesting, and we like to get you a little off script where we can. I`ve known you a long time in the news business. Good to see you in person.
WELCH: Thank you.
WELCH: Congressman Peter Welch, as mentioned, the candidate as well for the Senate.
When we return, we have another Democrat with a sharp response today, Buttigieg pushing back on DeSantis and Abbott. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:30:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: These are the kinds of stunts you see from people who don`t have a solution. Like, Governor DeSantis was in Congress. Where was he when their debating immigration reforms? It`s another to just call attention to a problem because the problem is actually more useful to you than the solution, and that helps you call attention to yourself.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: It sounds like facts. That`s Pete Buttigieg, now U.S. transportation secretary going at some of the governors who have put forward migrants as political props or worse, potentially, committing human rights abuse. The courts are actually going to be involved and look at that. Playing with people`s lives.
You`ve heard about the story, Buttigieg making the point that at a basic level, even if you had a different immigration view, even if you said there should be a different approach, why not find the solution and policy rather than trying to dunk on people, or trigger your opponents, or all the other a-moral, unethical ways we have heard people explain the trolling activities outside of Florida that affect real people`s lives.
We`re joined now by a former Republican strategist, Rick Wilson, co-founder of the Lincoln Project. And Kim Atkins Stohr is back with us as promised. Rick, the idea was to, quote, unquote, "make a point." What point do you see in that immigration gambit?
RICK WILSON, GOP STRATEGIST: Look, I think the point he was making is, I`m running for president in 2024. I`m going to primary Donald Trump. I`m going to go after him on the thing that he`s strongest on in the minds of many of his voters, which is hostility to human rights and immigration. And he`s going to out-Trump, Trump, in that space.
And I think for DeSantis, it was a remarkably successful political strategy to open up his 2024 presidential campaign because, in part, his audience consumes the cruelty by which that act was defined.
MELBER: Well, plainly put. Kim?
ATKINS STOHR: I think the same. But the interesting thing about this is in the desire to own the libs in a way that, you know, out-own the lib more than Donald Trump could. These stunts reveal something else. They not only reveal the cruelty and the potential human rights violations, but it reveals that there could be solutions in the short-term for the border crisis while we wait for Congress to come up with long-term solutions if states actually work together to help people who are seeking asylum move away from the border, move into communities, find jobs and find safety, which is exactly what they found in many of these, quote, unquote, "blue states," that these folks are trying to own. People like DeSantis. For example, even though laws may have been broken in him flying people from Texas to Martha`s Vineyard, they found --
MELBER: Kim, I`m going to let you finish, as they say. But laws may have been broken could be the memoir of many Trump-era officials.
[17:35:01]
ATKINS STOHR: It really could. It really could. We don`t know exactly what these people were told to entice them to get on these buses or planes. But the truth is they landed in a place where they were able to find resource and help.
The help and resources that they`re not able to get in places like Texas, either because they`re overrun or because they`re run by people who don`t care to give it.
MELBER: So, well put. Rick, when you look at this as a factual matter, Florida is a place with a long history of immigration-related issues, and communities -- diaspora communities with links abroad, I would say nuance, it`s not monolithic, et cetera.
So, there`s got to be, for some people, a factual baseline. And yet, for DeSantis, when you look at the sheer -- the lack of a scale of this stunt, right? It`s not to make an analogy, Rick. It`s not like when Bannon and Trump tried to do an actual travel ban and then you had it go into force. What everyone thought of that, I would call that real policy. The court significantly narrowed it as illegal.
But it was policy at a minimum. This isn`t at a scale, factually, of doing anything about what conservatives might call excess or, you know, excessive immigration. What they would view as how do you tamp that down? There`s a valid, as I mentioned, way to do that.
So, does that factual limitation matter? Or is this fundamentally, as you said, is this more just content?
WILSON: This is a post content, post ideological environment where everything is about the show. Everything is about the spectacle. Everything is about the phenomenon of watch Ron DeSantis own the libs. Watch Fox, you know, turn this into, you know, one of their weekly moral crises.
And the irony of this is, a, it happened in Florida, where -- as you correctly point out, we have an enormous diaspora of folks from around the world.
MELBER: Yeah.
WILSON: We have Venezuelans and Cubans and Dominicans and Haitians, and folks from across the Caribbean, across South and Central and Latin America, and in every possible dimension in the state.
And the irony of this is that the folks who are fleeing from Venezuela, these were legal asylum seekers, and they`re being treated, you know, in this abusive and horrifying way, even though they`re coming here, fleeing an abusive authoritarian socialistic dictatorship, which for normal Republicans in Florida, those are the trigger words that send them out of their minds, and they lose their bearings instantaneously.
And so, it really is a deep irony. But I will say there`s one other irony right now is the state spent $12 million so far on this program. He will continue to do it to get more headlines. And they spent weeks and weeks and weeks planning and plotting and scheming for this in the middle of hurricane season.
Now we have a Cat 2, Cat 3, bearing down on Sarasota and Southwest Florida. And you know what? Weeks of planning for an immigrant spectacle has done nothing to get our property insurance market fixed, to get our state ready for a crisis like this. And we live in Florida, you ought to know what`s coming in the fall, guys.
MELBER: All fair. Kim, turning to the Buttigieg of it all, I do want to be clear about him, just like I was with Congressman Welch, you know. Let`s hold everyone accountable. He is saying, hey, I`m doing policy, I`m in this lane, and he`s giving a policy-infused response. But it also seems like he`s coming out as the political attack dog of the administration in a government role. I mean, everyone out campaigning is campaigning.
So, what do you think about that, his role as someone who. Of course, once ran against Biden, then backed him up, now he`s in the cabinet. And as this, as we go into November and beyond, is this something we`re going to see people like Buttigieg, Harris, or others, try to sort of find their way into certain headlines. Because I tell you this, I`m old enough to remember when the transportation administration job was so boring, no shade, but it was considered so boring, nobody knew who was running it. He`s clearly trying to get into a DeSantis fight. Your thoughts?
STOHR: Yeah, I mean, clearly -- I mean, look, he was the mayor of a fairly small city just a few years ago, so he`s certainly politically ambitious if he`s gone from there to becoming a household name, probably one of the most well-known transportation-secretary we`ve had in a minute. So certainly, he is looking ahead at his political future.
But I think also on this particular point, he`s right. That was a gimme. You don`t really have to have a political ambitions to point out plainly what`s happening with these immigration stunts, as you correctly frame them. That is happening at the border that has no -- with no intention on actually helping these people, and quite possibly harming them and trying to do something.
And I just can`t underscore this enough. The whole point was the idea that would get the applause lines by DeSantis is that, hey, we`re going to send these folks up to the north and let them deal with them, as if them is some awful problem, and it`s shown that it`s not.
These are people in need of help, and in most of these cases, whether here in D.C. or up in Martha`s Vineyard, they received it. So, it failed, but it`s still winning with his audience.
[17:39:57]
MELBER: Yeah.
ATKINS STOHR: I think that`s something that the secretary was just pointing out.
MELBER: All fair points. And to bring us back where we started, Kim, if you want to go ahead by lawsmayhavebeenbroken.com now, decide later if that`s a special report or not. It was your memorable phrase and we want to honor that and mark that today, among other things. Kim, Rick, thanks to both of you.
WILSON: Thanks, Ari.
MELBER: We mention this news of Hurricane Ian nearing the Florida gulf coast. We have an update on than for you later this hour. A live report and check in with Bill Karins with some more politics.
And I will tell you what`s coming up on the 6:00 P.M. eastern edition of THE BEAT. I`ll be live with you and we`re cooking up something special. So, a lot to get to. Stay with us.
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MELBER: Hurricane Ian is making it closer to the coast of Florida. The forecasting shows the storm is expected to make landfall somewhere near Venice. The most recent briefing from the National Hurricane Center predicts Ian will restrengthen through tomorrow and thus could potentially land as a Category 4 storm. Two and a half million residents in Florida already under some type of evacuation order. Officials urging residents do not underestimate the storm. Get out before things get worse. If you are in Florida and can hear this or know someone, that is what the officials are saying. You`ll want to keep an eye on that and do as you are told and advise before those options dissipate.
[17:44:59]
For more expertise, we turn to NBC News correspondent, Steve Patterson, live in St. Petersburg, Florida. And NBC News meteorologist, Bill Karins, with what we can expect as Ian approaches. Steve?
STEVE PATTERSON, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Ari, the calm before the storm here growing a whole heck of a lot. Less calm by the seconds. The winds pick up. The sky is darkening. The surf, the tide coming in more violently than it was even just a few minutes ago.
But you`re right. Those mandatory evacuations now under way for millions here in Florida. Hundreds of thousands up here in Tampa Bay, because this area is so susceptible to what`s called the storm surge. That is when that storm brings the tide in more violently, the shelf here, which is basically the sea floor, is more shallow. It is wider, which essentially dumps water on to the shore.
We could see a storm surge in this area anywhere from 5 to 10 feet, which has the potential to be catastrophic, because so much here has been built up in the last 100 years or so. That`s the last time that we`ve seen a direct hit in Tampa Bay. That`s the worry from officials, although officials do believe they have a handle on the situation for right now.
FEMA has been activated. The National Guard with about 5,000 guardsmen in Florida activated as well. We`ve seen utility trucks roll through this area, hot and heavy in case there are widespread power outages. But the warnings, as you mention up front, are to get out of this area as soon as possible. We saw people earlier sandbagging, boarding up their homes, doing as much as they can to try to protect their property. But the overriding message from federal, state, local officials is that you have to leave because soon you won`t be able to.
And if you stick here, if you decide you want the ride out the storm, they may not be able to get first responders to an area like this in the next few hours because they don`t want the risk their safety as well. Those are the warnings. Those are the stakes. Ari, back to you.
MELBER: Thank you, Steve. Stay safe. To echo and reiterate what you and the officials are saying, if you`re in Florida, now is the time to act. Bill?
BILL KARINS, NBC NEWS METEOROLOGIST: They don`t have much time left, either. I mean, after dark, the conditions are going to start getting worse and worse. So, yeah, I mean, it`s preparations are done, and if you`re still in the area and you`re like, maybe I`ll ride it out, maybe I shouldn`t, I just heard it`s going to be a Cat 4, I`m a little scared, leave. Get out now while you can.
So, let`s go through everything. And this forecast did change today. We`re expecting changes because of this angle of approach to Florida and just how skinny the peninsula is. A slightest wobble or shift is the difference between a Tampa landfall and Fort Myers.
And we`ve leaned and wobbled a little bit more towards Fort Myers during the day today. So, that`s why you`re going hear a lot more about the problems from Sarasota to Southworth, for Charlotte, to Gorda, Cape Coral, into Fort Myers, itself, than you are from Sarasota north wards up to areas clear water beach into Tampa.
So, it`s a Category 3. They only gets 10 miles per hour stronger, it`s a Category 4. We expect that to happen overnight. The hurricane center says it may be a Category 4 at landfall, or it may be a strong end Category 3. Damage is going to be about the same either way. It`s just a number.
So, as far as timing, look at this. With this earlier push towards the southwest coast of Florida, we`re talking landfall as we go throughout the middle of the afternoon. That means the eye wall will probably be moving onshore about lunchtime. That`s why tomorrow morning is too late. Hurricane-force winds will arrive on the coast starting at almost daybreak tomorrow.
So, if anyone is thinking of getting out, you have until about midnight tonight. That`s about it. And so then, we`re going to take the storm after that, bring it inland, it`s still going to be a Category 1 hurricane and tropical storm right over the top of Orlando.
I was in Orlando in the eye of Charlie in 2004. And that also made landfall in the exact same place. This is identical to a hurricane Category 4 strength Charlie in 2004, which was a multi-billion-dollar weather disaster in the sunshine state. Some people didn`t have power for two to three weeks. That is going to repeat tomorrow into Thursday.
Storm surge always kills the most people. Water, by far, more than wind. And the areas of greatest concern is going to be just south of where we get that landfall position.
So, if we bring that storm in around Inglewood or Venice, somewhere in this, unfortunately, the whole Charlotte Bay area here and down to beautiful Captiva and Sanibel Island, the Fort Myers area, you would be the peak storm surge, up to about 12 feet.
So, picture, you know, you`re at the beach at high tide and you add 12 feet on top of that, that`s how high the water levels are going to be all the way inland. Far inland. Fort Myers is extremely flat. So, that`s the biggest concern we have right now, getting people out of those evacuation orders.
And then where going to have even storm surges up around areas of Georgia and Jacksonville Beach, up to 4 to 6 feet as a tropical storm. That`s not going to be fun either. And as far as the wind damage, now that we`re expecting a Category 4 or 3 landfall, we`re expecting a lot of roof damage, tree damage extreme.
And that -- these are some of the estimated peak gusts possible, 120 to about 130 miles per hour in that inland swath right where it makes inland. The winds may be a little bit lighter around Fort Myers, maybe, but you`re still going to get the worst storm surge out of this.
[17:50:01]
And the power outage potential, you know, it`s from Sarasota straight through Orlando. There`s a lot of trees in Orlando. And even a strong tropical storm will drop a lot of those trees on powerlines and that`s going to be an issue.
Rainfall -- someone`s going to get two feet of rain of this. Yes, Florida does have sandy soil, it`s so sand -- it`s a lot better than other areas of the country, but two feet is two feet, and eventually it will overwhelm and we will get some flash flooding. That`s greatest threat is right through the eye four quarter, almost similar to where the worst power outages would be.
And on top of that, we`ve already had three reports of tornadoes today, Ari. So, yeah, this is as bad as it gets. Well, going about three, four days ago we`re like, OK, what`s worst case scenario? It would be probably a Category three or four to southwest Florida. That`s exactly what we`re going to see happen tomorrow.
MELBER: Bill is going to be busy. Thanks to Steve and Bill, and stay safe. Let me tell everyone what`s coming up, Nicolle Wallace is out. That`s why I`m here with you. And we have been working on something very special that coming up in the next hour of THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER live.
And it speaks to the problem we`re facing in America. What do you do when the people running from office want to prevent you from ever voting again in the future? What do you do when Donald Trump`s big like becomes an actual agenda item for a whole party? And what do you do when the right- wing authoritarian are rising, not only here in America, but across Europe, and Republicans in America are cheering that.
We`ve heard this term semi-fascist from President Biden. We`re talking now about neo-fascism and a party that just won an election in Italy that traces its roots to Mussolini`s national fascist party. This is not a drill. This is real.
Next hour I`m going to break it all down, how it connects to America and MAGA, and why Republicans, some Republicans in America are cheering this neo-fascist result that trails all the way back to Mussolini.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: I`m very glad to express my friendly feelings towards the American nation.
(FOREIGN LANGUANGE)
UNKNOWN: I greet the wonderful energy of the American people, And I see and recognize among you the salt of your land, as well as ours. My fellow citizen who are working to make America great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[17:55:00]
MELBER: Thanks for spending some time with us here. We`re about to do THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER starting at 6 P.M. eastern as we often do. I did want to mention as we`re keeping an eye on this January 6 committee which delayed the upcoming hearing in light of the hurricane. You can also find my book about the insurrection and the coup conspiracy. If you go to melberbook.com, it will be the January 6 report.
This is one of the independent publications by Harper Collins. You go to melberbook.com and get my four on the coup conspiracy and the whole January 6 report when it comes out.
Now, coming up next half hour, we have someone in the news, the former Republican congressman who advised this very committee, Denver Riggleman. He`s talking about what the committee is doing, a controversial reported switchboard call to a rider from the White House. And, we`re going into it, obviously, about why the committee itself has been criticizing him. So, that`s coming up next.
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