Summary
MAGA election deniers won more primaries, from coup talk to gerrymandering by which GOP testing democracy. Former FOX News political editor fired for accurately calling Arizona for Biden which resulted in Trump`s loss. Bill Nye, the Science Guy, joins Ari Melber to talk about Joe Biden passing the climate bill amidst record-breaking temperatures and a new image of a distant galaxy that provokes awe, and wonderment. Domestic Policy Council Director Susan Rice joins Ari Melber to talk about Joe Biden`s new plan to chip away at America`s student loan debt crisis.
Transcript
NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. We are grateful. THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER starts right now.
Hi, Ari.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Hi, Nicolle. Thanks so much. Welcome to THE BEAT. I am Ari Melber.
Susan Rice has served at the highest levels for Presidents Obama and Biden. Today she is touting this White House breakthrough on student debt, and she is our guest later tonight.
We also have Bill Nye the science guy coming up so consider it a kind of hot bill summer and stay with us for that.
Also making a BEAT debut is one of the few live witnesses from the January 6th Committee hearings, an expert who stuck to the facts about Donald Trump`s loss and found that telling the truth can become something of a radical act in the MAGA universe.
So all of that is coming up here, but our top story right now is about democracy, and I`d like to clearly tell you what we`re trying to do around here. So let me tell you up front right now this is a little different than our typical start to this news program THE BEAT. Right now I`m going to try to walk through the broader path of how democracy is in danger even beyond how that point itself has become a kind of rhetorical refrain in Washington, a refrain that is also true.
So we`re going to go through that right now, me and you together, and then turn to a special expert on this a little later.
The midterm elections may occur on one day in November, and we know that, of course, as election day. But these primaries for who can win on that day, who even will be in a position as a major party nominee to win, they keep playing out pretty randomly because every stage sets its own dates, and right now some of the primaries may matter even more than election day because there are more people running to seize power to try to end democracy, to try to corrupt our system of government so your vote won`t matter.
More people running to do that than at any point in modern history. So these primaries are something of a checkpoint, but those figures keep winning Republican primaries with signs of an extreme post insurrection slate of candidates that are even more militantly anti-democracy than some of the current Republican incumbents who have minimized the insurrection. And it`s exactly some of those types of candidates who won again last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JD VANCE (R), OHIO SENATE CANDIDATE: We`ve got a crazy fake president.
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Donald Trump won this election in a landslide. Listen, I believe Donald Trump won the 2020 election.
HARRIET HAGEMAN (R), WYOMING CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: We have serious questions about the 2020 election. The election was rigged.
BLAKE MASTERS (R), ARIZONA SENATE CANDIDATE: I think Trump won in 2020. But you got to admit this election was really messed up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to stop election fraud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Running for office on a brazen lie about the previous election is a type of confession. These are people who are openly defending an illegal attempt to overthrow the results of that election. And in turn when they do this, well, it`s reminiscent in other countries sometimes where we`ve seen growing militant sometimes violent force that believes the current government is literally illegitimate. I don`t mean that as rhetoric like you really don`t like those folks. I mean like the wrong people stole the election, like the coup is exactly backwards.
These are people directly telling voters they favor overthrowing democracy, elections and installing their side regardless. This is not a drill. So for congressional candidates that kind of pledge is an implicit or explicit pact to go even farther to overthrow lawful votes if there`s another January 6th and their side lost according to the votes. That`s one track. Then there`s another track for candidates running to oversee elections.
These are posts that were once considered pretty dry or boring. It`s usually called the secretary of state of a state which is a little confusing because the federal position is about foreign policy, the state position is about running the elections. But now we`re seeing a ton more interest ominously so for people running to exercise power in those positions to be in charge of future elections.
Now, that`s the soft coup stuff. There are still some guardrails. An election official who announced -- and this is not news. This is a hypothetical. If an election official announced, for example, they wouldn`t count the votes of men or count the votes of members of the Green Party, well, that official would end up in court where we would expect independent judges to legally stop such a blatant effort at voter suppression or corruption.
[18:05:11]
And the judges can mandate those votes still be counted regardless of what some nut case decreed. Remember Donald Trump never got close to filing any legitimate court case to reach the Supreme Court challenging his loss in 2020, but there is a precedent for contesting presidential elections. In 2000 there were plenty of public concerns at the time about partisanship by the Republican who was overseeing Florida`s elections, secretary of State Harris.
But in the end she didn`t make those final calls. It went to the Florida courts and then to the Supreme Court. So that`s one part of this. Then there`s this very motivated, sophisticated effort to use what are essentially lawful means. That`s different than a coup or submitting fraudulent materials like elector fraud that we`ve covered. That stuff can be illegal. There`s a separate effort here to consolidate right-wing power against majority rule through lawful means.
It`s a simultaneous but legal push to distort your votes and hold onto power. Now, I can tell you about this in all sorts of ways. We`re at the top of the news show. I said usually we don`t always dive in all the way with you this early in the broadcast but we`re here the day after those primaries and this matters. So let me pick one state. I`m thinking cheese. I`m thinking the Midwest.
I`m thinking the great state of Wisconsin. Shout out to the cheese heads. This is a great state with a lot of great people in it. But I`m here to tell you about the democracy problem they have which illustrates something that`s happening in many places. Take a look at the power grab there where Republicans have already coordinated back in 2011 using technological computer modeling and other political tricks to go from one map to the other.
And the bottom line is even if you feel like, OK, what am I looking at is they used tricks to redraw the districts to skew the map on the right to look and be more red than the actual voting public. So I`ll leave this up here. On the left in `08 you have that roughly split state blue and red. On the right, same state, similar voting, but the redrawing of districts and other shenanigans makes the state more red than the voters do.
So that`s Wisconsin. I`m not suggesting the Republican votes don`t matter there, and there are plenty of Republicans voting there. And I`m not suggesting this only happens on the right. There have been gerrymandering that has been deemed unfair by the courts and by nonpartisan experts committed by both parties at various times in American history. I`m reporting for you the news tonight right now this is happening much more aggressively in concert with a wider anti-democracy movement in the Republican Party.
So let`s stay in that great cheese state where you have Senator Ron Johnson, a MAGA Republican, pushing for Republicans there to take more direct control of the elections. He wants to scrap what is a system that provides some bipartisanship. They have a commission for that. And now, again, whether you feel like this is national news or not, if you look up in a future election and it`s turning on Wisconsin and all these claims, you can think back to tonight when we went in this deep to tell you that they are on this because it`s a Trump backed candidate for governor who is pushing a very similar plot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM MICHELS (R), WISCONSIN GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Was it rigged? Was it fixed? Certainly there was voter fraud. I`m going to stop it. My number one priority is election integrity. I`m going to get rid of the Wisconsin Elections Commission. We should not even be having this conversation 21 months after the election. I`m going to stop the ballot harvesting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Michaels is one of these candidates looking to take power in November, and to work with some of those other means and I just showed you a couple of them at the state level that could make Wisconsin sort of long- term, arguably criminally red regardless of what voters do. This is a very dangerous moment. There are experts who look at this and warn that when you combine what I`m calling these lawful measures, no one`s saying that those are crimes under current law, and you combine them with the illegal ones, the soft coup and voter suppression, you have the building towards a quasi- legal effort at a kind of anti-majority, anti-democracy minority apartheid rule in America.
I`m telling you about this tonight because it is in some ways the largest democracy story facing us even though some of it is happening piecemeal in ways that don`t always splash into the top of the newscast.
[18:10:02]
So I said we`re doing it a little different, I wanted to give you that full briefing. We have our shortest break, 60 seconds, and then we return with Obama campaign vet Chai Komanduri in one minute on this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We didn`t lose, we just found out more fraud.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got into this race always knowing I was going to challenge it even if I did win the Republican primary because we`ve got to get rid of the fraud.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the people who did this and cheated are watching, I do not concede.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not conceding because I`m a winner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: We`re back with Obama campaign veteran Chai Komanduri.
Chai, you know, it`s always the mark of a sane person to say they would definitely challenge their own victory on principle.
CHAI KOMANDURI, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Right.
MELBER: And yet while some of it looks silly, some of it is deadly serious as we just showed in our earlier report. Your view.
KOMANDURI: Yes, I think what the GOP is really doing here is they are basically rendering the January 6th Commission or trying to render it null and void. In the future what they would like is not to have to send rioters at the state capitols or the U.S. Capitol. What they would like is to have the rioters seated as elected officials in those capitols ready to overturn elections, ready to rig the democracy and disenfranchise voters.
And you see this in swing state after swing state. You know, you brought up Wisconsin. Georgia, we all remember Brian Kemp`s infamous voter log that tried to disenfranchise people and wouldn`t let you even give water to somebody who`s standing in line. You`ve seen in Florida which I think is very instructive as well where Ron DeSantis has created sort of a police force to eliminate voter fraud.
And I think Florida is actually very instructive because Ron DeSantis hasn`t hid his admiration for Viktor Orban. You know, what Viktor Orban did is he used democracy to rig democracy in favor of himself. And Ron DeSantis and Republicans have learned from that, and they`re openly copying and admiring that example and trying to bring it to the United States.
You know, if you look at the movie "Star Wars" I think Episode 3, and, you know, where the emperor doesn`t need to have the Sith go in and overthrow the Senate. The Senate simply vote him the power to make him the dictator. And I think that`s exactly what you`re seeing now. George Lucas drew on each a drone for that movie but I think you can also draw upon what`s going on with the GOP today.
MELBER: Are you saying this is how democracy dies to thunderous applause?
KOMANDURI: Exactly. That`s the scene where, you know, Emperor Palpatine was then Senator Palpatine basically convinces or doesn`t really have to convince a rigged Senate to give him that power. That`s basically the same play the GOP would like, have elected officials, have people inside the building who will do the heist for you rather than bringing people in from the outside.
I also think one of the things that Wisconsin kind of highlights is the role of organized labor in all of this. You know, Wisconsin was a place where, you know, Ron Johnson, Paul Ryan, Scott Walker, Reince Priebus, they took a battering ram to organized labor in that state. And organized labor was essential for Democrats to organize these down ballot races, secretary of state races, et cetera. We simply don`t have that anymore.
But also what has emerged from that rubble has been MAGA. MAGA has emerged from that rubble. It`s not Mitt Romney voters and Paul Ryan people who`ve emerged. It`s Donald Trump voters.
MELBER: Yes, you make a great point including about the organizational dynamics. You`ve worked for several Democratic campaigns. There`s a policy discussion about labor and the labor issues are somewhat more popular than they`ve been in a long time when you look at a generation looking at the pandemic, work from home, labor rights, billionaires run amok. That`s at the policy level.
But the long-term level of union members and whether they`re actually empowered to calcify what some might call the sclerotic backbone of the Democratic Party is a deep organizational question that takes years to build.
[18:15:12]
Chai, from the "Devil`s Advocate" to "Star Wars" to the history of Wisconsin`s labor movement, we appreciate you. Thank you.
KOMANDURI: Thank you.
MELBER: Absolutely. Coming up we have Susan Rice from the White House. We`re also fact checking some real attacks on science. Bill Nye the science guy is here, but first, a special guest from the January 6th Committee, one of the few live witnesses making his BEAT debut next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:12]
BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS HOST: What is this happening here? Why is Arizona blue? Did we just call it? Did we make a call in Arizona? Let`s see. Now there`s a check mark. Did our decision desk make it, Arizona 11 electoral votes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We can --
HEMMER: OK. If that`s the case then guys --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe we have a yes.
HEMMER: When we come back we`ll fill this in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: The moment that Biden won Arizona, which put him on the path to win the presidency, FOX News had the voter data and they made the call. It was actually the first network to make that call. FOX News political editor at the time Chris Stirewalt was in the decision desk room on that team doing it. He says he was fired for accurately reporting that Biden won that state. And he ultimately testified to Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS STIREWALT, FORMER FOX NEWS POLITICAL EDITOR: At some point it became clear that Arizona was getting ready to make a call. We knew it would be a consequential call because it was one of five states that really mattered, right. But we already knew Trump`s chances were very small and getting smaller based on what we had seen. So we were able to make the call early.
REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): As of November 7th in your judgment what were the chances of President Trump winning the election?
STIREWALT: After that point?
LOFGREN: Yes.
STIREWALT: None.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: None. You may remember him from the hearings, Chris Stirewalt is my special guest. His book is "Broken News: Why the Media Rage Machine Divides America, How to Fight Back." He has the experience and something we appreciate here on THE BEAT. He has the headphones to rock news or music. Looking good. How you doing?
STIREWALT: You got it. If you`re a nerd you better look like one. I should clarify -- I should clarify, I don`t say that that`s why they fired me. I don`t know. I`ve heard conflicting different stories, but definitely -- but definitely FOX viewers are not happy with me. It is definitely true that FOX viewers did not -- were not picking up what we were putting down on the decision desk that night. People got very angry about that and I did lose my job.
MELBER: Yes. Well, let`s -- you lost your job, so let`s narrow in on that. Were you given some other valid reason, written historical performance report, some real reason that you were suddenly removed after what unfortunately perhaps to your career became one of the biggest what I call a non-troversy, a non-controversy, but you were associated with this call. Were you given some other reasons, sir?
STIREWALT: Well, first, FOX doesn`t owe me a job. I`ve worked in the news business for a long time and it`s like that, right? You`re in, you`re out, everybody`s fired, everybody`s hired. I don`t care. I would do everything exactly the way that I did it before. I have no regrets, and it all worked out great. And by the way, this is -- I mean I`m grateful for a lot of the good colleagues I had on FOX and all of those things.
MELBER: Sure.
STIREWALT: But my professional life has never been better. I am a happy, happy dude. So as for all --
MELBER: Love the good attitude. What about the question I asked, though?
STIREWALT: Well, so your question is, was I given a valid reason?
MELBER: Yes.
STIREWALT: I guess I`ll put it this way. A valid enough reason for FOX News to terminate my employment is because they wanted to because they don`t owe me a job, and that`s OK. And I`m not, like, I guess I`m going to put it this way.
MELBER: Well, we`re not in a deposition.
STIREWALT: No, go ahead.
MELBER: But if we -- we`re not in a deposition but if we were I would say that while you`re being very diplomatic and respectful, I understand that because I`m sure you worked there a long time, you know a lot of people there. There`s more than one person there. It doesn`t sound yet like you`re able to point to a reason that they provided you that would explain this, so there`s what we would call a circumstantial case but I understand not an airtight one. I have another question but I`ll give you the last word on this topic.
STIREWALT: I think my last word is I don`t care.
MELBER: OK.
STIREWALT: It`s OK. Life is good.
MELBER: So let me ask you this. There`s always been fierce clashes in politics. I know you`re a politics junky and you and I probably could talk about different eras over history. This isn`t the first time there`s been tension. But are you concerned that there`s something deeper going on when there is a factual problem with acknowledging election results and how do we move forward as a country if we don`t have people acknowledging the legitimacy of the current government?
STIREWALT: I have a lot of concern around the fact that I live in a country where elections have never been more secure, and I live in a country where it`s never been easier to vote, right? So theoretically based on our experiences historically ballot access and ballot security, we`re nailing it, right? This is where we aspired to be in the past.
[18:25:05]
And both parties tell me that our -- that it`s over, right, that democracy is over. The scaremongering around this issue discourages people from having the correct confidence. We have a great election system in this country. 150 million people vote. We manage to get it all counted. We manage to get it all done. We did it under a doggone pandemic. One of the things that most offended me, most sort of shocked my conscience around what Republicans were doing in the aftermath of the 2020 election was demonizing these people who work, many of them volunteers, by the way, to go down and work in our election system.
The easy thing to believe, the flattering lie that partisans tell themselves is that we are the good people and they are the bad people. And they`re not just bad, they`re evil. They`re working against us. And that frightens me. What frightens me is the idea that I would live in a country where Republicans and Democrats don`t say to each other, I disagree with you, but let`s talk it through. Instead they say I reject you, you`re evil, this is wicked and I don`t want to talk about it.
MELBER: Yes. Yes. I hear you on all that.
Chris Stirewalt, making your BEAT debut. Thank you very much. You have an open invite. Come back on a Friday. We`ll do a "Fall Back," all right?
STIREWALT: I dig it. Thank you, my friend. Have a great day.
MELBER: Thank you, sir.
Coming up as promised, we go to the White House, Susan Rice. And later Idris Elba, why he`s out in the jungle. But coming up, the trees, we have Bill Nye coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:31:21]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERSCHEL WALKER, GOP SENATE CANDIDATE: They continue to try to fool you like they`re helping you out, but they`re not. They`re not helping you out, because a lot of the money is going to trees. You know that, donƒ_Tt you? It`s going into trees. We`ve got enough trees. Don`t we have enough trees around here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Republican candidate Herschel Walker heard they`re asking the big question. Do we have enough trees? There are actually about three trillion trees worldwide according to nature. Most trees are -- the countries with the most trees are Russia, Canada, and Brazil if you were curious, and there has been a spike in trees thanks to the lumber industry on Earth.
But the larger question may be whether human impact is making the earth less inhabitable. As President Biden signs that climate program over the no votes with every Republican in Congress. So, we welcome Bill Nye, the Science Guy. He might even help us see the forest from the trees. His new series is The End Is Nye, premiering tomorrow on Peacock. Welcome back.
BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: It`s so good to be back.
MELBER: Your thoughts on the tree question and more importantly, the climate?
NYE: Well, that`s the same -- it`s part and parcel the same thing. Mr. Walker, I`m sure it`s passionate. But the places where we need trees are in the same places where lower-income people live. And this gets into this -- the inherent problems associated with low-income people and their neighborhoods, and so on. And part of the Inflation Reduction Act is to plant trees in urban areas. This is not what the main part of the bill is, but it is a feature, Mr. Walker.
MELBER: Yes. Well, I guess we can just leave that there.
NYE: Well, no, we don`t have enough trees. Is that thing -- is that the answer to the question, no? We need trees, yes.
MELBER: I just want to make sure you heard the leaves` pun.
NYE: Oh, yes. It was brilliant, it was amazing.
MELBER: I mean, if you didn`t get it, and you`re a lot smarter than I am. If you didn`t like it, it`s usually a problem for my puns. Go ahead.
NYE: I liked it, I love it. But I got to say it sounds like you said, leave that rather than leaf that and this would be the homework of the sound, fricative --
MELBER: All right, I`ll take it.
NYE: But that aside. The Inflation Reduction Act will address climate change and the goal is to reduce our emission`s 40 percent, somewhat less than half in just the next eight years, which is pretty good. That will not solve everybody`s problem but it`s a start.
And my experience with these things -- my experience is once we get started and realize, once conservatives who may have voted against this realize that they can get reelected even with climate provisions in place, then they will support more climate provisions. And I mentioned --
MELBER: All right, let`s turn -- I want to show you -- I want to show you something else, Bill. And I think this will get your teacher and you go. And this is the stunning images from the NASA super infrared telescope. We`re looking at Jupiter here, you`re going to walk us through what it means. We also thanks this telescope, humans now have the most extensive look ever at these distant galaxies, including a kind of light time travel.
This has gone around the internet. I think sometimes build stories like this. They come and go in a day or two when in fact, even 100 years ago, let alone our ancestors. This is absolutely mind-blowing. Walk us through what we can learn from this, what we`re seeing.
[18:35:00]
NYE: Well, the image you got right there is very, very distant galaxies, 13 plus billion years into the past, and what we learn from this, frankly, we don`t know yet because there`s -- there are aspects of physics and the physics of stars that are not fully understood. But by gathering this light at this wavelength, infrared, and rendering visible, we are able to learn more about the structure of stars and how they interact.
And don`t be surprised, as I often say, my grandparents were all born in the 19th century, they didn`t know there was relativity, let alone then it could be used to help you get around the Earth`s surface with a mobile device in your pocket. And so, by studying these distant, distant galaxies -- galaxies, we may learn more about the source of gravity, which we roughly called dark matter, which is directed and moved around by dark energy.
Don`t be surprised in the next 30 years, discoveries are made in that regard that changed the world. But the other just really enchanting thing about all this everybody, like this image, is we`re just learning more about the cosmos and our place within it and there`s no -- there`s no business case for it.
Yes, a few companies who bought the instruments got paid. That`s good. The people at Jet Propulsion Lab in Applied Physics Lab who get these data in the Deep Space Network, that`s good. But we will make discoveries for the sake of discoveries. And that is worthy of our -- it really is a worthy thing.
MELBER: Right. That`s the scientific spirit and perhaps to some the human spirit. I love it. We always appreciate your time. I think this was a nice little way to look around the galaxy. Bill Nye, I want to thank you. It is a busy show. Let me tell folks, we have several more things coming up. To continue our outer space conversation. I do have a question for you tonight, which is do you believe there is other life out there in the galaxy?
I think this is a fun one. You can tell me @AriMelber on social or the best way to always connect with me is to visit me now at AriMelber.com. You can subscribe there to my writing. As some of you already know I write back in the comments. So, you go to AriMelber.com to link with me if you want to talk about whether there is life out there.
Now by the time this hour is up we`re going to dig into a new Idris Elba thriller. Stay with us for that. But next, we turn to the Biden breakthrough. Right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:42:07]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will never apologize for helping Americans working -- working Americans middle class, especially not to the same folks who voted for a $2 trillion tax cut.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: President Biden rebuking Republicans as he touts this domestic breakthrough. The administration is forgiving or canceling $10,000 in student debt for people making under 125k and up to $20,000 for those who had Pell Grants, which are generally reserved for people going to college with the most significant financial need.
The White House thrilled with this new announcement and dispatching officials to explain it, including a top official instrumental in these decisions. The president`s director of the Domestic Policy Council, Susan Rice. You may recall her, she`s got extensive experience as a diplomat, as ambassador to the U.N., and as national security adviser in the Obama-Biden administration.
She joins us now from the White House on this big news day Domestic Policy Council Director Susan Rice, thanks for being here.
SUSAN RICE, DIRECTOR, DOMESTIC POLICY COUNCIL: Great to be with you, Ari. Thanks for having me.
MELBER: Let`s begin with the big news. What is this program do for the affected individuals who have those loans? And what if anything, do you think it does to help other Americans who are looking at this as money during what has been a rocky economic time?
RICE: Well, first of all, Ari, there are many aspects to what the president announced today, and I think it`s important to hear them as a whole. In the first instance, he said, because we are emerging from the pandemic, it`s time to end, the pause on repayment of student loans, which began under President Trump at the beginning of the pandemic and has been extended. That pause will end at the end of this year, December 31st.
So, he`s going to extend it for one final period. Secondly, to ease the burden on those who have suffered during the pandemic as well as the -- to make the transition to repayment more viable and reduce the risk of default. He decided, as you said, with the secretary of education, who said that the key administrator on this to forgive $20,000, up to 25 -- up to $20,000 for all Pell Grant recipients.
These are people who came from families for the most part, vast majority of whom came from families that earned less than $60,000 a year. Half of these came from families earning less than $30,000 a year. And they are the people with the greatest need. And that is provided that their current income is less than $125,000 a year.
And then for those who are not Pell Grant recipients but still have less than $125,000 a year in income, a $10,000 forgiveness. Now that`s for the - - to deal with the past. To deal with the current students and future students and to fix what is a badly broken student loan system. He`s making very significant -- changes to something called the income-driven repayment plan.
[18:45:00]
That means that going forward, when you take out loans, you will only have to pay five percent of your discretionary income in your monthly payments. Right now, that`s 10 percent. So, this is going to save people, on average $1,000 a year. And it will also mean that once you`ve been paying for 20 years, you won`t have to pay any more, regardless of your balance. And if you`re paying on time, you`re not going to accrue this ballooning interest that has been so burdensome for so many.
So, this is going to be helpful, Ari, up to 43 million Americans who are eligible for this relief. And why is that important? These are low and middle-income people who have been suffering under the weight of this debt. Maybe unable to begin to buy a home or launch a small business. Some of these people, believe it or not, are seniors who are still paying student debt.
So, this is beneficial to the entire economy to answer your second part of your question, because when people have disposable income that they can use to make the economy more robust -- robust and to invest. That`s good for everybody.
MELBER: Yes, that makes sense. And as you mentioned, it`s been a widely attacked system, because of the way it hasn`t worked as other things have evolved. Now, I don`t want to hit you with the Goldilocks question here.
But this is one of those days where Republicans have responded and called this, quote, loan socialism, while some progressives who I know you and the president hold in pretty high regard have said, basically 10k, 20k, that`s not enough. There`s no reason to, quote, stop here, says one of the leaders of the debt collective. Your response.
RICE: Well, first of all, the president committed during the campaign to work with Congress if possible, and that hasn`t proved to be possible. To cancel $10,000 broadly for student debtors. He`s gone -- he`s met that commitment and exceeded that commitment by providing up to 20,000 for Pell Grant recipients who by the way, are 60 percent of the eligible borrowers.
So, this is a very significant action. 45 percent of the 43 million eligible borrowers are going to be able to have all of their debt wiped out completely. That`s 20 million people. For two-thirds of Americans, Ari, who are student loan borrowers, they will have half or more of their debt eliminated. So, this is targeted, but it is targeted in a way that will help those that need it most.
And, you know, I understand that some who would love to have seen it be $50,000. The president has been clear from the outset that he thought that went too far. And for the Republicans who think that this shouldn`t be done at all, I`d like to point out the following. They had no complaint. When the government made loans and forgave them to small businesses during the pandemic, you`d ever heard them complain about that, or even big businesses, multimillion-dollar businesses.
So, this is very selective concern, and they didn`t talk about it raising inflation then, but they worry about helping working in middle-class people today. So, there`s great irony here. And then last point is, if you look at the Trump tax cut in 2017, 85 percent of those people who benefited from the Trump tax cut, earned more than $75,000.
50 percent of those who benefited earned over $250,000. Under what Joe Biden and Secretary Cardona announced today, nearly 90 percent of those who will benefit from this debt relief, are those earning less than $75,000.
MELBER: No, I think that`s fair. I know your time is short. We have 45 seconds here. Given the other big story, I did want to ask you, as a former national security adviser, you have former President Trump and his allies saying that either he declassified things in his mind, or maybe he just took them for his memoirs.
Given your experience, have you ever heard of a former president or top official just walking out the door with 300 classified documents? Do you view that as relatively normal and forgivable, or is this a national security concern?
RICE: I have never heard of something like that. I don`t want to stray into the national security lane. And I`ll stay in my own, but I think it just as a statement of fact, I`ve never heard of something like that.
MELBER: Yes, understood. You have the experience. I understand what you`re focused on in your current role, but we thought we`d ask given your expertise. Susan Rice at the White House. Thanks for making time.
RICE: Thank you. Appreciate it, Ari.
MELBER: We appreciate it as well. Next, we go in a different direction and go into beast mode when explain what Idris Elba is doing and how it connects with politics and representation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:53:35]
MELBER: This summer has not offered a break from America`s controversies as clashes continue over teaching facts about racism in school and tension in our increasingly diverse nation about representation from workplaces to politics, to the influential people who run Hollywood, where women and racial minorities are still boxed out of so many opportunities. It`s a story we`ve been covering from several vantage points on THE BEAT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELBER: And now we turn to a film icon and Oscar`s producer Will Packer you probably know his films like Straight Outta Compton and Think Like a Man and the stars he`s worked with from Kevin Hart to Tiffany Haddish to Ice Cube.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEAGAN GOOD, ACTRESS: I don`t go on dates with guys who don`t open the door for me.
ROMANY MALCO, ACTOR: Really?
GOOD: Really.
MALCO: Seriously?
GOOD: Yes.
MALCO: Oh, man.
KEVIN HART, ACTOR: Here we go. Freeze! How you say Freeze?
ICE CUBE, RAPPER, ACTOR: Freeze. Freeze.
HART: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This song glamorize gangs and drugs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our art is a reflection of our reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Packer`s work has tackled and sometimes shaped social change in America. He`s engaged on many issues, offset from women`s rights to Georgia politics to joining that early push to try to diversify Joe Biden`s ticket which some people viewed as controversial at the time with a focus on doing whatever was necessary to just, quote, beat Trump. Packer also led the first all-black production team in producing this year`s Oscars.
[18:55:00]
He has an Emmy nomination for that work in a field that has long featured discrimination and exclusion. His new movie Beast stars, Idris Elba. We`re going to get to that in a moment. And I got to say, it`s pretty clear. Mr. Packer, you`ve been in beast mode with this schedule when we take off a lot of the stuff. Thanks for being here.
WILL PACKER, FILM PRODUCER: Beast mode. I like that, Ari. How you doing, brother?
MELBER: I`m good. It`s great to have you here.
PACKER: It`s good to be here, man.
MELBER: I want to get to the film. But given what I just mentioned, you know, they say, oh, it gets better. It`s getting better. It`s going to get better.
PACKER: Yes.
MELBER: It doesn`t always get better. And you look at Oscars Grammys, I think people know just how limited these have felt. So, what do you think is happening just in the field of diversity and honoring the work that actually goes into these fields?
PACKER: Yes, I mean, you know, look, it is getting better for sure. Here`s the thing people don`t remember, we have so far to come. You know, it was such a dearth of an recognized voices, underserved voices, people that work in my industry and other enemy industries, especially in arts entertainment.
And especially with the decision makers behind the scenes, they`re just not a lot that look like me, very often. Even, you know, me, at my level, I walk into a room, I`m pitching a project or securing financing. Usually, I`m only African American and --
MELBER: Right. You don`t mean just well dressed? I mean, other factors.
PACKER: Start with that. But yes, I do mean, other factors.
MELBER: What is it mean for you to do that at the Oscars, but then also be just a talented producer, creator executive, and not be put in that position? Whether they`re doing that or in a way, I don`t want to be doing it to you right now, where it`s like, oh, now, someone`s trying to cast you as being all things for all people as a representative when you`re also just a creator?
PACKER: I mean, that`s the balance, right? I think if you talk to any high- achieving black person in this country, you feel the burden of not just achieving in whatever industry or field, but also that you are the black person.
Don`t you mess up, because now there`s an extra burden of -- well, if I don`t do things right, if I do something wrong, then I mess it up for all the folks that are coming behind me, that may look like me, because there`s just not enough of us to have just kind of a broad, you know, judgment on us and just our work. It`s also our work and our character, our morality, and our politics and all that stuff.
But here`s the deal. That`s OK, as long as we`re able to go in and work and create opportunities for other folks that are coming behind us. Any progress is good progress. And so, one of the things that people that aren`t in entertainment, they look, and they say, well, you know, I see a lot of, you know, people of color on our television screens and on our commercials.
And by the way, that`s a good thing. Behind the scenes, maybe not so much it takes more time. In the executive suites, we still don`t have people (INAUDIBLE) that are making major decisions.
MELBER: Let`s take a look at this new project with Idris Elba.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IDRIS ELBA, ACTOR: Wait, what the hell will you do?
IYANA HALLEY, ACTRESS: I`m going to check if I can see Uncle Martin.
ELBA: Get back in the car right now.
HALLEY: No, we have to do something or he`s going to die. I`m not going anywhere. I`m going to check if I can see him.
LEAH JEFFRIES, ACTRESS: Dad, it`s here. It`s here.
ELBA: (INAUDIBLE) get away from the car now. Pass it now. Quick, pass it. Quick. Take it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Now, you know, I keep it real around here.
PACKER: Talk to me.
MELBER: So, here`s the question.
PACKER: What you thinking?
MELBER: Is it just a scary adventure movie or is it more than a scary adventure movie?
PACKER: It`s more than a scary adventure movie. It definitely is in that survival man versus beast genre of movies. It`s got something to say, it`s got something to say about family. Idris Elba is a father with two young girls who he`s estranged from. He has very difficult relationship. That family is in peril and in trauma, well, before they get dropped into the African bush.
It also talks about the fact that this lion, which is a bad (INAUDIBLE), he is manmade, because of poaching, which is a true phenomenon which separates the prides there and Africa and you -- end up with these alpha males that become rogue lions, and they -- they`re nomadic lions and they roam.
And so, they don`t go on human man-eating killing sprees like my lion does. But it does underscore real issue. I think it`s the perfect kind of late summer movie. Go get out of the heat, get some A.C. in the cinema, have a good time. It`s well done, you know. I mean, listen, if you either got to be home watching my guy, Ari, dropped bars, or you go to the theaters and watch Idris Elba fight a lion. It`s one of two, I`m telling you people, make up your mind. What you going to do?
MELBER: On that note, I love it. We`ll pack and thanks for coming on THE BEAT.
PACKER: Thank you for having me.
MELBER: Appreciate you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MELBER; Appreciate that. And I want to remind folks, this is our MSNBC "MAVERICKS" link, you can go to MSNBC.com/Mavericks. We explore these conversations about culture and change, people you have heard of icons like Snoop Dogg and Annie Lennox, but also people you may not know about who are involved in so many things we love.
You can go to YouTube and search "MAVERICKS" Melber. You`ll find a bunch of them or go to that link on your screen. As always, I appreciate you spending time with us on a fine summer day here on THE BEAT with Ari Melber. As I mentioned, you can find me online @AriMelber or at AriMelber.com. A little view of summer in Manhattan as we sign off. "THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID" is up next.