Summary
The Senate debates moving forward on Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson`s Supreme Court nomination. New reports of atrocities by Russia in Ukraine are being exposed. Peter Navarro faces more potential legal trouble. President Obama is set to make his first return to the White House since he left.
Transcript
NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER starts right now.
Hi, Ari. Happy Monday.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Happy Monday. Hi, Nicolle. Thanks so much
Welcome to THE BEAT, everyone. I`m Ari Melber.
And we`re tracking several big stories tonight, including these atrocities alleged against Russian forces, the mass graves, the tied-up bodies, a Ukrainian official bemoaning what they call a veritable safari. Will it change anything in this war as it grinds on? We have that story later tonight.
Also, former Trump aide Peter Navarro does face these contempt charges, a new vote, for stonewalling the January 6 Committee. That`s coming up as well. And we have some special guests.
But we begin with the kind of big news in America that has at times been occluded and pushed aside by other big news around the world. And that may be understandable. But this is the big story. And it would have been, quite frankly, in a different news environment the big story four weeks running, the president on the way to changing the composition of the Supreme Court.
Joe Biden`s pick is poised for a major win tonight, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson on path, on a path here to be much closer now with what we`re about to see to joining this court, which would make her the first black woman to ever sit on the highest court in the land in America.
Now, just moments ago here late in the day, the Senate Judiciary Committee went forward with the vote about advancing her to the full Senate for a vote. Now, this was effectively deadlocked 11-11. And that means the nomination goes forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL): On favorably reporting the nomination of Ketanji Brown Jackson to be associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, the clerk will call the roll.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chair Durbin, the votes are 11 yeas, 11 nays. It`s a typo.
DURBIN: The committee has recorded a tie vote on Judge Jackson`s nomination to be the associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That was the news late in the day inside the Senate Judiciary Committee room. That was the tie vote. You may recognize that room from the at times controversial questioning of the nominee.
What you`re looking at right now is the Senate floor live, because this is a big night for the Senate. The majority leader, Chuck Schumer, who has the power, is setting up what will be a floor debate. Then you will see, as Mitch McConnell and others weigh in, that folks will speak to both the process -- that`s procedure -- and the outcome, whether or not she will join the Supreme Court.
There`s going to be a procedural vote in the full Senate soon. But that`s not the one we`re really watching. That`s just going to be 51 votes to go forward with the voting process. The big vote, the final confirmation vote, is expected actually later in the week because of the way the Senate operates.
And there are signs that Jackson will have enough support to be on the court. As reported, she got one Republican already publicly voicing her support before the official vote on the floor. That is Susan Collins. Many are watching Senator Mitt Romney and Senator Lisa Murkowski as other Republicans who might come around to support Biden`s nominee.
Then there`s something else that came up that has more of the circus vibe you might recall from the confirmation hearings, with Republicans basically making refutable claims about what people across the aisle in legal circles and the police unions and other groups have said is a valid, legitimate, mainstream nominee.
Well, we`re hearing something else.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): If Judge Jackson is confirmed, I believe she will prove to be the most extreme and the furthest left justice ever to serve on the United States Supreme Court.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Judge Jackson will coddle criminals and terrorists.
SEN. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R-TN): Judge Jackson is beholden to the radical left that is teaching our children that they can choose their own sex.
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Let me just say for the record, sex crimes against children are not fiction.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): After four days of hearing -- hearings, I now know why the left likes her so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: What you see here is the narrative, the language, the rhetoric of a loss. That`s why you heard more predictions about how she will be on the court, because even Republican senators who really went to the mat against her and sometimes with claims that were misleading or fact-checked are treating it as something of a given on that committee that she will join the Supreme Court.
And now they`re warning that they believe or fear she will be extreme. Well, we will report if she joins the court on what her decisions are like and whether they`re in the legal mainstream or not.
Senator Graham there said that he discovered why the left likes her so much. Of course, he put her in the position to get on the Supreme Court. He was one of the Republican votes to put her on the court of appeals for the D.C. circuit. Graham had stormed out of the earlier hearing. Today, he`s now said the quiet part out loud, and with some trolling along the way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: If we get back the Senate, and we`re in charge of this body, and there`s judicial openings, we will talk to our colleagues on the other side, but, if we`re in charge, she would not have met before this committee.
You would have had somebody more moderate than this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That`s Lindsey Graham`s view. And he has the right to say it, although the history here doesn`t always completely align.
You have a Republican Party that already denied a lawful Supreme Court appointment even getting a hearing under Obama. That`s what McConnell did, famously, to Merrick Garland, who`s better known now as the attorney general. That was back in `16, when McConnell denied even process or a hearing.
[18:05:12]
That broke precedent at the time. What we are seeing in the gasps of this loss potentially or this anger is the idea that Joe Biden is winning, that he found a nominee that could get through even a divided Senate because the Democrats do have the last call, as long as they stay together.
With that update on what we see here and the looming vote, we are joined by some very special guests, former acting U.S. Solicitor General Neal Katyal and president and founder of the Transformative Justice Coalition and a longtime civil rights lawyer, Barbara Arnwine.
Welcome to you both.
Barbara, I mentioned earlier something that isn`t really a criticism of the system or the press or the world, but just the reality that there`s been a lot going on. I think people who watch the news understand that. And in any other couple of weeks in recent American history, we would have been on this constantly.
There have been other hearings that have gotten that measure of coverage, I recall them, no matter who`s president. We have been distracted as a nation and as a globe, for good reason. But as she gets another closeup here, and, as I mentioned, Republican votes coming into gear, it`s not my job to predict, but I can count, and we`re counting up to over 50.
What`s on your mind with the history that might be made here?
BARBARA ARNWINE, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, TRANSFORMATIVE JUSTICE COALITION: Well, I think it`s an incredibly historic moment for this nation.
And this nation needs a diverse Supreme Court with a diverse population, with a diverse constituency. We need to have diverse judges. And what I love about Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is that she is so eminently well- qualified.
And I`m going to tell you, Durbin got it right today. How many of us could have set through that kind of bashing, misrepresentation of our history, just misstating the law, all of these just absolutely fallacious and wicked commentary that has been made. How many of us have ever stood somewhere as a woman and been asked to define what is a woman?
It is something really ugly here. It`s this misogynoir, this black womanism, is being used to really debase just an incredibly talented jurist. So what I hate is what that was.
But then, on the other hand, there`s the great news that she`s going to be confirmed, and that when she`s on that court, she will continue to bring that beautiful, high-level intellectualism, and that high level just wonderful comportment. She will be an amazing justice, and we all will be happy to see her.
And I can tell you, black women will be celebrating all over the country, all over the world. We`re ready.
MELBER: There you have it. Who runs the world, as it were.
Neal, your credential here, which I think viewers know, also speaks to the way you`re going to talk about a court that you have argued in front of and may argue in front of again. So, you`re talking about someone that may rule in your cases. That`s your expertise. It`s also kind of something people could be aware of.
But you know this court. What would it mean for her to join it, given, as mentioned, she brings diversity in many senses, including, as we have reported, a public defense background that doesn`t currently exist on the High Court?
NEAL KATYAL, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so I think my old friend Barbara nails it on the head.
This is someone who`s incredibly, incredibly qualified. Indeed, she had to be more than incredibly qualified to get this far, as you can tell by the way the Republicans have treated her. She`s got poise. She`s got character. She`s got brilliance.
And that`s why two-thirds of Americans are a supporter, which is a much larger number than many of the past nominees. And this court is the most conservative court in our lifetimes, I think people on the left and right both agree. And it`s been made so because of a couple of recent appointments in which Justice Kavanaugh replaced Justice Kennedy, which moved the court quite a bit to the right, and then Justice Barrett replacing Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, moving in court much farther to the right.
And so this vote, in a way, I don`t see Justice Jackson being tremendously different from her former boss, Justice Stephen Breyer. I think you`re right to say, on criminal issues, she might be.
But on the lion`s share of stuff, she`s exactly where I think Justice Breyer was. And it`s so telling. Justice Breyer was confirmed at 87-9. And now this joke Senate committee, Republicans on the Senate committee, they`re cartoon characters. They can`t even vote for someone who really carries Justice Breyer`s tradition forward?
[18:10:11]
I mean, the nominee is not what`s changed here between 1994 and now. What`s changed is a Republican Senate which has become far more extreme, far more radical. And it`s a shame to see.
MELBER: Yes. Yes, I appreciate both you on that.
We`re in sort of half breaking coverage, because I want to be transparent with viewers. This is kind of the pre-vote, not the big kahuna vote. But it`s a step in this process. And we`re watching the Senate floor now on our screens here, at 6:10 p.m. Eastern there in D.C.
And you can see some of the senators moving about the floor and discussing as they do what is called this discharge process vote that will tee up the later vote for her. So we are watching that. And this is part of the day, the step, but we`re not going to get the final, final answer tonight.
Neal, you mentioned the way the committee comported itself. And I think everyone understands how political attacks work. Even when misleading, they can land by creating doubt, creating smoke. You could pick classic examples, like John Kerry was a decorated Vietnam veteran, and they created enough smoke around his service with the so-called swift boat attacks, that it did -- quote, unquote -- "work," even though not everyone believed the entire lie.
When you look at these really dastardly, lying attacks on Judge Jackson that were designed to link her or tie her in some way to the very people she sentenced. So she`s a judge. She says, you get a lot of jail or you get some jail. And they try to say, oh, she likes the criminals.
I mean, it was a real leap. And I`m simplifying because it was that dumb, so I don`t need to give it all that much nuance on this particular night. Other nights, we will do nuance, Neal.
The public has overwhelmingly rejected the attempted swift boating over. I just want to show, 52 percent disapproved of that. Only 27, only a quarter approved. So, if you translate the number on your screen to the state of politics today, that means a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump, who have been told over and over by their sources of media to be against Judge Jackson, a lot of those people did not approve of this, Neal, which is to say they either found it wanting, lying, or really over the line.
What`s your reaction to that data?
KATYAL: I think that`s exactly right.
So at least the swift boat attacks on Senator Kerry were competent. I think Cruz and Hawley and these people have orchestrated a stupid, silly attack that hasn`t stuck. And so I don`t worry about Judge Jackson`s legacy at all. I mean, the idea that she`s soft on crime, she`s supported, Ari, by every major cop organization in the country.
MELBER: Yes.
KATYAL: The idea that she is, like, soft on child pornographers because of a handful of cases -- by the way, the same exact examples are ones which are unanimously -- were unanimous votes with Republican judges that -- like Senator Hawley, who`s trying to pick up this crusade, have tried to levy against her, he voted for the Republicans. He didn`t vote for her because he doesn`t want her on the court.
And I get that. I would just -- I think it`d be better if he just said, look, I`m just not going to nominate -- I`m not going to confirm to confirm someone who`s a Democrat, instead of denigrating and making stuff up.
And, to me, the most telling point today was Ted Cruz saying this nonsense about how she`s going to be the most lefty jurist in Supreme Court history, with zero to support it. Ted knows better.
And he was called out today by his former boss, Judge Michael Luttig, who`s one of the most respected conservative jurists in the country, who said that this stuff is just made up and wrong. So, I think -- I don`t worry about her legacy at all.
And the beauty about the Supreme Court is she`s going to write opinion after opinion, and the American public will see just what a great jurist she is. And I`m one of the couple people who`s actually lost a case in front of her while she was an appellate judge. She wrote a great opinion. I disagree with it, but it`s a great opinion.
MELBER: You hear that, Barbara?
Neal Katyal is such a skilled counselor and speaker, I think he just turned his loss into a classy compliment of somebody else.
(LAUGHTER)
ARNWINE: Yes.
MELBER: He knows how to do this.
(LAUGHTER)
ARNWINE: Yes. Yes.
MELBER: Barbara, you get the last word.
ARNWINE: Well, Neal is a person of courage and integrity. And I must say, today, I was disappointed in so many people being cowardly.
If you`re opposing her because you don`t -- you`re a white supremacist, you want to appeal to a white supremacist base, just say it. But don`t put her name in your mouth and speak untruths. Bring the truth about her, because if you only say the truth about her, then she is absolutely a yes-vote.
[18:15:04]
But if you want to play and demonize black people and the historic racist tropes that we are -- quote -- "soft on crime," which they used against Thurgood Marshall back in 1965, and here we are again in 2022 and the same gamesmanship.
But the beauty is that you got a Cory Booker. The beauty is, is that a lot of us are going to be doing everything we can to get a black woman on that Senate. Imagine if there had been a black woman sitting on that committee. We need much more diversity across the board.
So happy that I`m living in this moment, after 12 years of fighting for a black woman in the court, to see this happening.
MELBER: Yes.
And, as Neal mentioned earlier, we -- those of us in the legal circles know Barbara for a lot of your advocacy on this. So I know your work, your record and your passion and your feeling tonight, which I wanted to hear from you tonight, is a long time coming.
Barbara Arnwine, thank you.
Neal has agreed generously to stick around, because I want to get into a whole different legal story that`s really interesting with him later in the show.
So I will see you soon, Neal.
Let me tell folks what`s coming up. We do look abroad at the war in Ukraine, where Zelenskyy is calling for more action, as new reports of atrocities by Russia are being exposed, even as some Russian soldiers retreat.
Later, two former Trump aides moving closer to getting that contempt that`s been threatened.
And, later, why that Obama-Biden bromance will have a sequel at the White House, at least for a day. We will explain.
And by the end of the show, we do, do something a little bit uplifting, a shout-out to a good friend of THE BEAT who had, you can see in his hands, a very big night. We will explain.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:21:05]
MELBER: There`s a reaction that continues to really pour in from around the world at the horror of these images of Russia atrocities reported in Bucha.
Now, the images you`re about to see are extremely graphic. They`re also the evidence that the world is reacting to that is informing policy. The images are part of the reality and the story. And many who are pro-Zelenskyy and pro-Ukraine are saying you have to see them to understand what`s going on and how the West might continue to change its response to Putin.
Here`s what Ukrainians are finding as they return to the city and the outskirts of Kyiv here after five weeks of fighting. You see the bodies strewn across streets. Ukrainian officials say 300 have been killed. A full accounting continues.
There are also indications, signs and evidence of torture, bodies found, for example, with hands bound behind their back, wounds indicating close- range gunfire, which is to say not in combat, reports that women were raped by Russian soldiers, and that children were executed.
One survivor giving an eyewitness account to "The Times," saying -- quote - - they shot everyone they saw, referring to the Russian soldiers. Another survivor discussing indiscriminate attacks and barbarism by those same Russian troops.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those people were just walking and they shot them without any reason. Bang. In the next neighborhood, Stekolka, it was even worse. They would shoot without asking any questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: The journalists, the cameras the citizen speaking out. All of this is just coming together over time. We`re just learning about it.
You`re looking at these disturbing images of one mass unmarked grave there, where bodies wrapped in plastic lining. This was reportedly dug near a church. We`re also seeing some of this, only because -- and I stress this, even as we have warned you to make your own decision about whether to watch these images, but this is only coming to the public light over the weekend and today because the Russians actually retreated from the area where you see the mass graves by the church from this location.
Now, the remnants of the fighting, you have Russian tanks burned and mangled. Other neighborhoods look like charred ruins. President Zelenskyy toured Bucha today, referring to what you have seen here, what`s unfolding right now in 2022 in Ukraine, as a new genocide and arguing this makes it much harder to come back to any negotiating table with Vladimir Putin`s diplomats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): These are war crimes, and they will be recognized by the world as genocide.
You are here today and can see what has happened. We know of thousands of people killed and tortured, with severed limbs, raped women, killed children. Think this is a genocide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: The survivors in the area are there lining up for humanitarian aid after what they have been through. Russia says falsely that none of this occurred, that it is somehow faked or staged propaganda.
That`s what the Russian defense is, which is why it`s important for people to see the evidence with their own eyes.
Here in America, President Biden says Putin is a war criminal who must stand trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You may remember I got criticized for calling Putin a war criminal. Well, the truth of the matter -- you saw what happened in Bucha. This warrants him -- he is a war criminal.
But we have to gather the information, we have to continue to provide Ukraine with the weapons they need to continue the fight, and we have to get all the detail so this can be an actual -- have a war crime trial.
This guy is brutal. And what`s happening in Bucha is outrageous, and everyone`s seen it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:25:05]
MELBER: President Biden unwavering there in his view of what has been done and what he says he already called out -- I should say, Putin, for responsibility as a war criminal.
They`re also considering additional sanctions and other potential actions.
We will get into this atrocity that is affecting everyone in the world who`s paying attention when we`re back in one minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: I`m joined now by BBC News special correspondent Katty Kay, and Alona Shkrum, a member of Ukraine`s Parliament, as we report on these Russian atrocities.
Welcome to both of you.
Alona Shkrum, what do you think people outside Ukraine need to know about what was done here, what was caught on tape, as it were, and what your country`s going through right now?
ALONA SHKRUM, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Hello.
Well, I think you need to now Putin, as a dictator, as an aggressor, as a crazy man in the bunker, should be stopped. And he should be stopped as soon as possible.
I mean, I saw that it`s 40th almost day of war. Nothing would shock me. And I have seen it all. But I think some things that we have seen in Bucha and in the other villages to the north of Kyiv which were liberated yesterday, and which were liberated from Russian troops, I think we have understood that the atrocities the Russian soldiers have committed have been completely shocking.
And I think right now, as a lawyer, it amounts to genocide of Ukrainian people, that actually Russian soldiers and Russian commanders killed Ukrainians, tortured Ukrainians (AUDIO GAP) killed civilians, killed children just (AUDIO GAP) the Ukrainians. And they do not need and do not want to be ruled by Putin and Putin`s forces.
And, apparently, this amounts to the genocide in the matter of the convention that Russia is a member to. Ukraine is a member to it (AUDIO GAP) and this is something that we said that will never happen again and that history will never repeat itself. Unfortunately, it does repeat itself in Bucha and, for sure, it repeats itself in other cities, occupied cities of Ukraine.
And Putin should not -- he should be stopped and should be put on trial and (AUDIO GAP) for doing that.
MELBER: Understood.
And, as you say, even with what you`re going through and what you know about, these instances go even further.
Katty, we heard Zelenskyy call it a genocide here in Western Europe. It`s a term and a history I think people understand. People can debate the scale and the details. But the atrocities are absolutely horrific and heartbreaking to see.
I want to just play a little bit of President Zelenskyy, who has continued to try to use any means available to him to get the world`s attention. And he`s allied, of course, with some of the countries in Europe and part of the Biden administration approach, while he`s also-called on President Biden to do more.
He was able to reach the world stage at the Grammys last night. I want to mention briefly there`s reporting that he appealed to the Oscars for the same opportunity, and that they declined. And I think it`s an interesting thing that we should all consider as we go about our lives and what we pay attention to and how much time we spend talking about certain things at certain awards shows.
Good for the Grammys for giving him the platform -- bless you -- because there are people, Katty, who watch the Grammys who don`t follow international news all the time, and they got to hear from him. And here`s some of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENSKYY: The war doesn`t let us choose who survives and who stays in eternal silence.
Our musicians wear body armor, instead of tuxedos. They sing to the wounded in hospitals, even to those who can`t hear them. But the music will break through anyway. We defend our freedom to live, to love, to sound.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:30:08]
MELBER: Katty, he spoke about the arts and the importance of the arts, but we need society, we need human rights, we need some requisite safety to enjoy the arts.
And he is someone who has been a leader here and also made his entire career in the arts. So it was quite striking.
I wanted your reaction to what he said, as well as, of course, the horror in this -- in these reports.
KATTY KAY, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I mean, Zelenskyy has proved himself time and again to be masterful when it comes to appealing to specific audiences.
And there he was talking by pre-recorded video at the Grammys, and talking about music and about art and about artists and their freedom to operate, the contrast, of course, between that tuxedoed Grammy Awards ceremony and the musicians in Ukraine who have to wear body armor and play to patients who have been hurt in hospitals if they want to carry on performing their art.
The question, I think after Bucha now, for Zelenskyy and for all of us are, Ari, is, what changes? How does the world respond? What more can the world do? I mean, from -- you have had Admiral Kirby at the Pentagon today saying they`re carrying on with the weapon supplies, a lot of eyes now on Germany, and whether they would sign up to some kind of energy embargo.
It doesn`t look likely. There appear to be splits in the German coalition itself over that. But they don`t seem to be moving in the direction of a blanket embargo anyway. And the Ukrainians are going to have more of these scenes. As Ukrainian officials are saying today, we have seen Bucha this weekend, but we`re going to see Mariupol once the Russians clear that.
And it looks today like they are moving towards getting control of what`s left of that city. And the expectation is, we will see more of these scenes. And does the West keep up? As the war drags on, does the West stay united and keep up its arms supplies, which is what the Ukrainians need most?
MELBER: Alona?
SHKRUM: Well, yes, I think the West has to move forward, until we actually stop Putin, because this is something that we have been talking for a while, that we need to close the sky, that we need the defensive arms, that we need to the close the sky, at least over the humanitarian corridor, so that people could escape, because the atrocities that we have seen in Bucha is the atrocities because could not escape through the humanitarian corridors.
So, people had to stay in Bucha, in other small villages, in other small cities. They were basically taken hostage. But they didn`t have any food or any water for a while. And they have been tortured. And they have been violated just because they couldn`t leave.
And this is something which is horrifying to me in the 21st century, in this time, so close in the center of Europe, that we would still have these horrible things that I only heard from my grandmother telling me about the Second World War of Hitler when she was 5, and when the German soldiers were here.
And now the history`s repeating itself in absolute this horrible, most hard-line way. And I couldn`t even believe that we actually let it repeat itself and we let it come to us in a similar way.
So, right now, it`s up to us, up to the whole world up to the Ukrainian army, of course, and to Ukrainian defenders, but also up to the sanctions, up to the whole world to stop it, and to make sure that the history actually will never repeat itself again.
MELBER: Understood.
And I hope people are listening. And we appreciate you, as I have said to other guests in the country, taking the time. And we wish you safety.
Alona Shkrum, thank you. Katty Kay, thank you. Thank you.
We`re going to fit in a break. We have the developments we have been covering back on the home front, right, the Senate moving forward on the confirmation vote for Justice Jackson, including some news on that I just got. So we`re going to come back to that.
And President Obama making his first return to the White House since he left. That`s coming up tomorrow.
And, by the end of the hour, Neal Katyal returns, as we get into why Peter Navarro has a new problem after talking so much about why he wanted to overthrow the United States government.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:38:44]
MELBER: We have breaking news in the Senate push for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to join the Supreme Court.
The confirmation vote is coming this week. There is a procedural vote tonight. But since we came on the air, we got big news that really changes the nature of this clash. She will now have, it appears, the votes to win, because she`s got new Republican support. Since we came on the air, confirmation that two more Republican senators will vote to back Biden`s nominee, Senator Romney announcing his support officially and in writing, calling her a -- quote -- "well-qualified jurist and a person of honor."
And Republican Senator Murkowski joins Romney and Collins as a third official Republican yes-vote. That`s big news tonight, because, while we don`t do predictions, everyone counting on the Democratic side has said yes. No Democrats have publicly said no. And now three Republicans have said yes. There are legal sources who see this as clearly a 50-plus vote margin for her now. The official vote, though, comes this week.
As promised, we bring back to the program former acting U.S. Solicitor General Neal Katyal.
You`re here to talk about more than one thing, but I teased a different topic earlier, Neal, because this hadn`t happened yet. What does it tell you that she`s got multiple Republican senators?
KATYAL: We have got to talk about it, Ari, because I`m not saying Judge Jackson anymore. I`m saying Justice Jackson. It`s over.
[18:40:03]
And I`m so pleased to see Senators Romney and Murkowski join senator Collins in this vote. It`s something I actually did when I was -- when Neil Gorsuch was nominated, I crossed party lines, much to the chagrin of many of our viewers, and supported him. And what I said then was, the key is, is this person qualified, and who is he replacing?
Gorsuch was replacing Scalia. So it wasn`t moving the court to the right dramatically, if at all. The same thing is true about Ketanji Brown Jackson and Justice Breyer. And when I said that with Gorsuch, there was one senator, Ari, who came up to me and said, it`s so important for people to cross party lines and support the court. It`s critical to its legitimacy.
That guy was named Lindsey Graham. Look at his embarrassing vote today, and look at and be proud of Senator Romney and Senator Murkowski.
MELBER: Well, you may be one of the first people on the news to call her Justice Jackson. As you know, under our reporting rules, I can`t do that yet. And NBC News has not yet given our voting estimate.
But you are very close to this, as mentioned from the story you just told. So I think people are listening when Neal Katyal says in public, it`s a win. And I did want to get your reaction to that.
Again, for those just joining, two more Republican senators backing Biden`s SCOTUS nominee, a big development as we have that vote.
Now I want to turn -- Neal stays -- to the other topic, which is these Trump aides who are closer to criminal contempt charges in the January 6 probe. This is a developing story you have probably heard about, but there`s new developments tonight, because the House Rules Committee has now just voted along party lines, 9-4, advancing the contempt resolution for the full House.
You may recall the committee, the January 6 special panel committee, held proceedings on this and voted on it. They had a unanimous recommendation, where Chair Thompson made clear all individuals have an obligation to comply with lawful subpoenas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Mr. Scavino and Mr. Navarro have a legal obligation to comply with the congressional subpoenas issued by the select committee.
Instead, they`re acting like they believe they are above the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: The committee says they`re not above the law.
And one of the sticking points does involve some of our coverage, because Peter Navarro discussed under questioning his attempt to halt the certification of Trump`s loss when I interviewed him on THE BEAT.
The January 6 Committee found that to be relevant. They submitted it as part of the evidence for his contempt proceeding in that hearing last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NAVARRO, FORMER DIRECTOR, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING POLICY: I have so much knowledge to share with you about what I was involved in and what I know.
MELBER: If you say all those things out here, why risk a legal battle or going to jail to refuse to discuss them with the committee under oath?
NAVARRO: Because I have a loyalty to the Constitution and a loyalty to the president.
The president has invoked executive privilege in this matter. It`s not my authority to revoke that privilege.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That`s part of the evidence the committee provided.
They also have their own research, of course. They have an investigative product, a text message that went to Trump`s Chief of Staff Mark Meadows just days before the insurrection that said: "Mark, I`m reaching out, because I have details on a call Navarro helped convene as part of the effort to get Pence to delay certification of the election, including that the president participated."
The committee`s contempt commendation is moving forward now. And sources tell "The New York Times" that President Biden is really aghast that so many people around Trump are defying subpoenas. He does not even understand how they think they can do so.
Neal is here for this.
What do you see in the House moving forward today on the contempt? And if Joe Biden thinks this is so illegal, will his administration be able to enforce consequences?
KATYAL: Well, Ari, as the Taylor Swift says, I think we have seen this movie before.
(LAUGHTER)
KATYAL: We have had other contempt votes for exactly this thing, Steve Bannon found in contempt, and Mark Meadows found by Congress in contempt. Bannon is already facing a Justice Department prosecution for exactly this thing, invoking executive privilege.
It`s such a tired argument. All the Trump people have invoked it. They have lost it time and again, including 8-1 in the Supreme Court. They haven`t managed to get 63 losses, the way they did with the election bogus litigation, but they`re working their way there.
And, Ari, as you say, the Navarro one is even a weaker claim than Bannon`s and these other folks who`ve already lost and, it`s weaker for two reasons, one, because of your masterful interview and getting Navarro to basically admit these details that he was essentially plotting a soft coup, but also because he wrote a book about it.
And you can`t an claim something is privileged and secret and then write a book and blab about it with you on national TV. I mean, part of me wonders whether his book agent convinced him to bait this contempt proceeding just so that someone would buy a copy of Navarro`s book.
[18:45:17]
MELBER: And that`s a fair question. We may never know. I mentioned that he agreed initially to come on with us the day after the House vote, and then pulled out of that interview. If he does return to interviews, we could talk to him again. But those are open questions.
The way that the Trump January 6 message has changed from ducking and minimizing at first to now often embracing the violence and embracing the idea that they can just end democracy in America is really striking to behold, because it has profound implications as we go forward to future elections.
It got the "SNL" treatment in ways that were both funny, but relevant, because people may recognize the tick of folks basically admitting the coop plots on air. This was their Trump impersonator doing it over the weekend. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: No, you know what? There was no coup. It was an event, perhaps a take-back event, a coup perhaps.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: But I don`t like coup. I just don`t like coup. I don`t like the P at the end of coup. I think you should take that P and push it. We`re pushing P.
Of course, if you take off P from coup, you have cow, which goes moo, which perhaps that`s where they get coup. But do coup, who do? You do. Do what? Remind me of the Babe.
But, yes, in many ways, it was an intentional, planned coup, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: It was an intentional, planned coup, yes. Your thoughts. Neal?
KATYAL: You want me to react to that, Ari?
(LAUGHTER)
KATYAL: Look, I think the only thing one can do is laugh. It`s such a sad state for our democracy that we don`t have basic agreement, that we have one major political party that`s captured by extremist elements and this kind of nonsense.
And the beauty of things like what I do, the Supreme Court, is that we resolve our disputes by words and argument in reason. And, unfortunately, that hasn`t been happening in Washington, particularly in the Congress. And my hope is, just to return full circle to Justice Jackson`s now likely confirmation, someone like her can help bring this country together.
We should all be proud of this moment. It`s a really -- it`s truly historic. And I think that she will have the gravitas and the love of the American people to try and reduce some of these tensions in our society.
MELBER: And there you have it, somewhat full circle.
Neal Katyal, thank you, sir.
We fit in a break, but when we come back, the story I have been promising you. Why is President Obama back at the White House tomorrow?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:52:17]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Barack Obama.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: This is a big (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: I mean, who could forget that?
And back in those days, that was considered a big scandal, the BFD uttered by the vice president when he thought he was just speaking to the president. But you saw the mics picked it up. That was, though, for the historic signing of the Affordable Care Act.
Tomorrow, these two men, whose lives and careers are so intertwined as American presidents, reunite. Obama will actually be returning to the White House for the very first time since he left office. One of the last things he did, of course, was talk to then-incoming President Trump and say goodbye to everyone.
He hasn`t been back since, but he will be with his former V.P. because of Obamacare. He will speak about the expansion of health care benefits, as Biden works on ways that he wants Congress and other parts of the government to help reduce costs further.
Now, since Obamacare was signed into law, you may recall it was controversial in the fight and in the first few years. But now, well, what a difference enactment makes. So many people use aspects of the service. And in our polarized times, approval has jumped all the way up to 55 percent.
Tomorrow`s event also marks a chance to see two individuals who have in their own words said they long felt a kind of intergenerational professional bromance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This also gives the Internet one last chance to talk about our bromance.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: I feel more loose and relaxed than ever. Those Joe Biden shoulder massages, they`re like magic.
BIDEN: Which do you like better, these or these?
OBAMA: Joe, they are the same.
BIDEN: They capture different moods.
OBAMA: And in the bargain, I gained a brother. And we love you and Jill like family. And your friendship has been one of the great joys of our lives.
BIDEN: Mr. President, you know, as long as there`s a breath in me, I will be there for you. My whole family will be. And I know, I know it is reciprocal.
OBAMA: Same time next week?
BIDEN: Same time next week.
OBAMA: All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: It`s hard to keep secrets in the White House, but the president at the time surprised Vice President Biden by awarding him the final Medal of Freedom of his presidency.
You can see the images there. And it was a -- well, it`s a bond that you probably can`t fake.
When it comes to these men`s linkages, their shared histories and what they have been through together, it was also President Obama who delivered the eulogy when Joe Biden lost his son, Beau.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Beau Biden was an original.
[18:55:01]
He was a good man, a man of character, a man who loved deeply, and was loved in return.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: When we think about this word leadership in public life, well, there`s leadership there between these two individuals, as we eye their time reuniting tomorrow.
I`m going to fit in a break.
And, when we return, there is a hopeful note, a positive note that I mentioned earlier in the broadcast, as we celebrate something with a friend of THE BEAT.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LENNY KRAVITZ, MUSICIAN: And the Grammy goes to "We Are," Jon Batiste!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: "We are."
And if you watch ed closely, Jon Batiste looked downright surprised, almost incredulous, when he won the Grammy for album of the year last night. That`s a big deal. He was also a big winner for the night, along with Silk Sonic, because he took home five Grammys. He`s also the first black artist to an album of the year in 14 years. Don`t get me started on the Grammys.
Now, he did join us on THE BEAT back a couple of years ago and talked about performing with Stevie Wonder his views on creativity and, at one point, kind of broke into an impromptu performance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
JON BATISTE, MUSICIAN: Man, I love that moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: We did too. A big congratulations.
He gets the last word, or the last note. And, as he said last night, we recognize artists. We don`t even need to rank them.
That does it for us.
"THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID" starts now.