Summary
In a private meeting House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy claimed speaking in hypotheticals in leaked audio tapes where he trashed other members privately, called for some Twitter ban MAGA lawmakers. Massachusetts Democratic senator slammed Elon Musk for buying Twitter, saying it is dangerous to democracy, that it is time social media platforms be regulated, and on GOP moving to block student debt forgiveness. Senator Elizabeth Warren joins THE BEAT with Ari Melber to talk about United States` student loan debt. Ron DeSantis attacks Disney`s free speech again.
Transcript
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: The wisdom of her life and the cause of her public service. Stand up to dictators and demagogues, from the battlefields of Ukraine to the halls of our own Capitol. Defend democracy at home just as vigorously as we do abroad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: What a moment. For our part, we want to thank you for letting us into your homes on this Wednesday. We are grateful. "THE BEAT" with Ari Melber starts right now.
Hi, Ari.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Hi, Nicolle. Thank you very much. And welcome to THE BEAT. I`m Ari Melber.
First thing`s first. Senator Elizabeth Warren is here live tonight. We`re going to talk about big tech, Elon Musk, Twitter and a lot more.
We begin right now, though, with the top story. Republican Leader McCarthy under continuing pressure for those lies caught on tape bashing Trump and Republicans right after the insurrection. Now in a private meeting with Republicans he is claiming he was just speaking in hypotheticals, quote -- and emphasized that whatever he said in private he never trashes his members publicly.
Well, that`s true. This was a secret tape. It is of course now public, and even in the face of all this, McCarthy is still getting reportedly a standing ovation from most of his fellow Republicans, but not all. Matt Gaetz confronted both McCarthy and Scalise for what was caught on tape. They`re concerned that he was one of the people fomenting violence. Gaetz said the call was snivelly and blasted them as weak over all of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I`m calling Gaetz. I`m explaining to him -- I don`t know what I`m going to say but I`m going to have some other people call, too, but the nature of what -- if I`m getting a briefing, I`m going to get another one from the FBI tomorrow, this is serious (EXPLETIVE DELETED) to cut this out.
REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): Yes. That`s -- I mean, it`s potentially illegal what he`s doing.
MCCARTHY: Well, he`s putting people in jeopardy and he doesn`t need to be doing this. We saw what people were doing in the Capitol, you know, and these people came prepared with rope, with everything else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is also facing a challenge about potentially booting her off the ballot for her conduct and words, is pressing McCarthy and Scalise to apologize for even expressing what you heard there, which sounded like concern about people`s safety and fomenting violence. Why would you apologize for that? Keep in mind, this is her public position today.
As for McCarthy`s hypocrisy, there`s what he said behind closed doors versus what he does in public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then Moore also made this tweet on Saturday night as the U.S. Capitol police officer who shot and killed a woman as she tried to get into the lobby, so he tweeted @MarjorieGreene and @NARAL, I understand it was a black police officer who shot the white female veteran. You know, that doesn`t fit the narrative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What? Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, man. So this is what we have to confront with this.
MCCARTHY: Can`t they take their Twitter accounts away, too?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: "Can`t they take their Twitter accounts away?" You are listening to the voice of the top Republican in Congress in private saying what so many others have said and what he now pretends not to believe, that while there is free speech in America there`s not a right to commit fraud. There`s not a right to incite violence. That`s not First Amendment free speech. Yet after all that, he was the one who went down, to take it all back, to pose with Donald Trump, and to go out in public and play this other fake role where he pretends he`s outraged about Twitter doing those things that he was hoping they would do in private. Perhaps the voice most threatening McCarthy`s ambition is not on Capitol Hill, but in an anchor chair.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX HOST: Unless conservatives get their act together right away, Kevin McCarthy or one of his highly liberal allies like Elise Stefanik is very likely to be speaker of the House in January. That would mean we will have a Republican Congress led by a puppet of the Democratic Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Let`s get into it and we are, shall we say, blessed amidst all the bad news to have our friend Michael Steele. He ran the Republican Party so whatever you see them say about him, they voted him in at one point in time. He is also an MSNBC analyst.
Welcome back, sir.
MICHAEL STEELE, FORMER RNC CHAIR: It`s good to be with you, Ari. It`s really good to be with you. Yes.
MELBER: It`s good to have you. I want to tee it up like this. Here`s what`s the same. Whoever is leading the House for the Republicans seems to be called out as a traitor heretic no matter what. And that`s cycle has played out pre-Trump. Here`s what`s different, if I am hearing correctly, and I say this as a credit in the moment to those individuals who went through what happened on the Capitol.
[18:05:06]
I was hearing, it sounded to me as an observer, genuine concern about more violence, genuine concern about the transfer of power which had not yet been achieved on January 20th, genuine concern that more people could die. And whatever later hypocrisy has been revealed people can judge it for themselves. Why is that genuine concern a bad thing in the party and a bad thing to Tucker Carlson, et cetera?
STEELE: Because it doesn`t fit the overarching narrative which you cannot forget is at all times in all ways in every manner we must own the libs, all right? So that`s top line. So that`s why you now have Kevin McCarthy or Elise Stefanik should they become -- either they become speaker of the House, will be puppets of the Democratic Party. I mean, so you take Tucker and you just kind of put it on a shelf because -- you know it`s going to be bat crazy and you move on.
The more problematic thing for McCarthy inside the caucus is, yes, some may have given him a standing ovation. He may have gone and done the backstroke and said, oh, you know, I was only talking happenstance and circumstance and, you know, hypotheticals, but they know. They know. They know him. What he -- why he`s there and why they latched on him, because he was good to them.
He raised them a lot of money. He went around the country and raised a lot of money for Republican members, and so that`s part of his hook. But they`ve got their eyes elsewhere. There are others who are waiting in the wings. This is -- this is very damaging, whether it`s terminal remains to be seen as I tweeted out just a little bit ago. You all know there are more tapes coming, right?
You don`t think they`re going to launch this book and just give you that little bit and that`s it. So we`re going to hear more about what Kevin McCarthy views not only Donald Trump, but his members in his caucus, certain members in his caucus, and that is going, you know, I guess, grease the skids for a slide that very well could see him go past that speakership opportunity because there`s going to be a lot of blowback from that Freedom Caucus and some of the other members who just think they`re there where they are because he hasn`t led them out of it.
MELBER: So what is Kevin McCarthy`s record here? I mean, it seems like he`s just always on the run and what he`s most in trouble for and what he`s most virulently trying to retract was that window where whatever you want to call it, humanity, concern, or just not wanting to get killed by Trump fans on January 6th changed his M.O. for a little while.
STEELE: Yes. You know, this is the thing that I find the most fascinating. I don`t get doing the easy part, why that is so hard, why they`ve made that so hard? Because at the end of the day, if you -- if you said publicly what you`ve said privately the way the group think and the group dynamic is inside the caucus, and you know, I`ve experienced it. I know how it ebbs and flows and how it moves in many ways having worked with a lot of the members as chairman and sat in on some of those meetings, certainly on the Senate side, is that the leadership is really by force of will.
I mean, people rally to that. They love that strong, determinative, focused, you know, leadership that takes them some place that they may think, I don`t know if I want to go, you know? And says, no, no, no. Come on. This is the right space to be in. And gives them a rationale for it. That is the strength, by the way, of Mitch McConnell because regardless of what you say about Mitch McConnell, you don`t hear a tenth of the crap coming out of his caucus that you hear coming out of the House caucus, because at the end of the day he`s given them the rationale for doing as close to the right thing.
Now some will argue, you know, it`s not -- you don`t take it far enough. You then, you know, say one thing and then vote against that thing when it`s time to impeach or hold someone accountable, but you don`t see that same type of dynamic playing out in the -- in the Senate caucus the way you do in the House because that is a difference in leadership. That`s the difference in understanding your members.
It`s the difference in recognizing that it`s not just about going out and fundraising for them, but understanding there comes a price for that and the price they pay for that is discipline, discipline, discipline on messaging, on behavior and on approach.
[18:10:08]
And so Kevin doesn`t offer that to these members. And I think you`ll see him struggle with it. I -- you know, I`m not going say today he won`t be the next speaker, but if he is, what do you think it`s going to look like with Marjorie Taylor Greene? He`s already promised her not only admission back into the club, but probably her own chairmanship of the subcommittee. So what do you think she`s going to do with that?
MELBER: Right.
STEELE: So there`s, you know, a lot of folks looking at this and the calculating doesn`t make sense to have that as the North Star of Kevin McCarthy, or maybe it is someone like a Scalise, maybe it is someone else, and we`ll see how that narrative plays out.
MELBER: Yes. Of course if he became speaker it`d be wild because then the Republicans would win the election in that possibility but there`d be a Democratic speaker according to Tucker and, you know, don`t fact check what he says.
STEELE: Right.
MELBER: Just take it. Michael --
STEELE: Just take it.
MELBER: Good to see you, sir.
STEELE: All right, my friend. Take care.
MELBER: Absolutely. Appreciate you kicking us off.
We have a lot more coming up. The new heat on Elon Musk with all these questions about where the lines are. Well, Senator Elizabeth Warren has been outspoken on these issues on big tech, on billionaire power. She joins me live coming up.
Later, we get into the goofies. Why is Goofy potentially winning the standoff with none other than Ron DeSantis? And by the end of the hour, a special interview with a driving force behind some of the biggest pop stars in the world, super producer Scooter Braun on THE BEAT tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:16:08]
MELBER: The scrutiny of Elon Musk continues today as he moves forward with acquiring Twitter, all of it. The U.S. does not regulate big tech very much, but Europe has been taking the lead with more rules and requirements, and now regulators over there are stressing that Musk will still have to follow content laws of those places even if the company is off the public market here in the U.S.
There are signs some users bailed on Twitter in response to Musk buying it and now a judge just rejected Musk`s effort to scrap a settlement with financial regulators requiring that he would have to get approval from Tesla for company-related tweets. Now that timing is coincidental. The case had been going for a while, but it`s interesting, Musk was caught using Twitter to rush out the kind of business claims that would have been stopped had he made the same claims in financial filings. He was busted for pushing misleading information. And that was just as a Twitter user, not an owner.
Traded companies are more regulated than private one which is what Twitter is about to be. And critics are asking if Musk was already breaking those rules then, what will he do with fewer rules and the added secrecy he gets by owning Twitter outright. And then there`s how the company can be used to protect or advance Musk`s massive wealth. You know, two decades ago he was musing on the perks of wealth as well as considering his own values.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, TESLA CEO: Wow. I can`t believe it`s actually here. It`s pretty wild, right? Just three years ago I was showering at the Y, and sleeping on the office floor and now obviously I`ve got a million-dollar car.
My values may have changed, but I`m not consciously aware of my values having changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Now he`s a billionaire staking his career on convincing people that he has plans for Twitter that are now suddenly not about for-profit goals, that`s why he talks so much about free speech lately, but he`s also signaling which team he currently backs. It`s not just free speech in the abstract, he`s publicly courting a right-wing partisan constituency in the U.S. at least for now. Just yesterday he amplified an account linked to the pizza-gate conspiracy. Of the billions of options of tweets ever that`s really one to lean into right now.
Now Congress has not caught up to regulating big tech. This is a field that`s less regulated than traditional media companies or industries like banking. Some politicians in D.C. seem at times just out of the loop about this. Some just root on big business and say let them make all the calls. In fact, it`s pretty rare to find U.S. officials who confront this powerful, and sure, sometimes confusing field head-on, although there are a few.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Giant corporations pose another problem. They can exercise more political influence. Mark Zuckerberg gets to have a private dinner with the president. Small business owners don`t get that kind of access.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elon Musk`s potential Twitter takeover is causing shockwaves while Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren called it dangerous for our democracy.
WARREN: Elon Musk, you made a bazillion dollars. Good for you. The rest of us invested in all the things that were necessary to have a foundation so that you could do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That is a fair point. We are living in a world that celebrates so much technology and so much wealth and capitalism, and those of us who use this stuff which is most of us in the Western world recognize it has its value. That`s precisely why it is important to figure out what the rules should be. Water has value, too, and that`s something we regulate. You can`t just charge anything for it or turn it on and off because a billionaire said so.
And right now, just saying that is apparently somewhat controversial, at least on some corners of the internet and certainly over in right-wing media.
[18:20:09]
So to go to the facts and go to someone who has been warning about this very thing, what a billionaire can do, we`re going to go to Senator Elizabeth Warren herself when we`re back in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We`re joined now by Democratic senator from Massachusetts, Elizabeth Warren.
Welcome. You have warned about the growing power of big tech. What do you see in Elon Musk`s purchase of Twitter?
WARREN: I see that we need to make two big changes. The first one is we need a wealth tax in America, and let`s talk about how Elon`s purchase here was subsidized by tens of millions of people who`ve paid their taxes every year and the second part is we need rules of the road for big tech, but ultimately what all this boils down to is power. Who`s going to have the power in our country? Are we going to make these decisions as a democracy, or is this going to be Elon Musk all by himself off in a room, a bazillionaire who just plays by his own set of rules? That`s really what`s at stake here.
MELBER: Is there something Congress could do to regulate the control of these companies? And I mentioned briefly comparing it to utilities. Are there aspect of certain social media companies that operate at a level where there should be a different form of regulation or do you think it`s generally fine right now?
WARREN: We need rules of the road, and look, there are going to be rules. Like I said, the only question is, will Elon Musk decide all the rules by himself in a darkroom or is it going to be the case that we`re going to decide this as a country? We`re going to make rules in a democracy. And let me just give you an idea behind one of them. These big platforms create what are known as platform effects that just lock people in.
So if I want to use my telephone, I can call you, I can call somebody else regardless of what telephone company they use. Not so with a platform like Twitter. The only way that I can communicate with all kinds of people that I communicate with right now is I have to be on Twitter and run that communication through Twitter. Same for people who want to communicate with me. And that`s true multiplied millions of times across that platform.
So one of the things we need is we need rules so that you can leave the Twitter platform and go to a competitor`s platform and still be able to reach each other. You have rules like that, then you actually have some competition, and once you`ve got some competition, then we can start making decisions. Maybe I would like to go to a Web site that offers more privacy or one that has moderated content. Maybe I don`t want to hear some of that stuff, but I can get that if we`ve got a competitive industry.
Right now what we`ve got in tech is we don`t have that kind of competition. Rules of the road could help facilitate that kind of competition and frankly break the stranglehold of someone like Elon Musk coming in and just owning the whole thing.
MELBER: The politics of this have come at us pretty fast. I don`t know if several years ago it would have been obvious that a certain billionaire from a certain country would somehow be so embraced by American conservatives. There`s a headline here, "L.A. Times," conservatives ecstatic that Musk bought Twitter. Republicans, quote, "see themselves starting with their de facto leader, former President Trump, as unfairly targeted by Twitter`s content moderation efforts."
Do you agree with that view? Do you think it is clear that Elon Musk will be pro-conservatives or Republican Party in the United States or do you think that`s a misreading of him?
[18:25:10]
WARREN: You know, for me, that`s frankly, not the most interesting question. I mean, it`s -- he could be one way or the other, and it would still be wrong. The problem is one of power, and concentrated power.
MELBER: Right.
WARREN: It`s about one person making all of the decisions about how tens of millions of people will have an opportunity to communicate with each other. That`s where the problem is.
MELBER: And finally on this and then I want to turn to student debt.
WARREN: Sure.
MELBER: What do you say to the critique where people say, OK, any given person disagrees or doesn`t like with what he`s doing, but this is the free market, he`s allowed to take the company private? What do you say to that? Do you think at the end of the day this is still just his call and allowed?
WARREN: Again, the point is one of what this tech space looks like. This is not like buying some company that produces cars or some company that produces soap. This is about buying a platform for communication among millions of people, and when that happens in newspapers, when it happens on television, when it happens in all kinds of other forms, telephones, we write as a democracy, as a country, our representatives.
We write a set of rules of the road so that people have access and they have access. I want to be clear here. Regardless of their political point of view, they get access. The platforms, the tech platforms, have created something that is different. And right now it is just basically unregulated.
MELBER: Yes.
WARREN: It`s just out there for Elon Musk to make up the rules and that`s why it is that we need to step in and say platforms like this need rules of the road on communication.
MELBER: Right.
WARREN: And so that there will be competition with other platforms.
MELBER: Right. And as you say, if it`s all down to one person something that big, it`s your trust or belief in that person will only go as far as how long they`re like that. They might change or they might have business reasons to change.
I want to get in, while I have you, on student debt. You`ve called on President Biden to cancel a lot of student loan debt. Many conservatives say that policy would have negative incentives. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You paid a quarter of a million dollars for a degree that doesn`t give you any marketable skill, and you`re mad at not yourself?
STEVE FORBES, FORBES MEDIA CHAIRMAN: It makes people who paid their debts, took their obligation seriously look like fools and if they have this debt forgiveness of any kind of scale, you`re going to have people wondering, why should I pay those obligations?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I sure as hell am not obligated to indulge your academic whims in the form of high tax theft. That is not within the purview of the federal government, my lovelies. I am not responsible to pay your debt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That`s the rebuttal. What`s your response?
WARREN: You know, actually, can we just back up just a tiny little bit here? We offer public education, K-12, for all of our children and most of us try to do a good job at that and try to get good local schools for our children. And we put our taxpayer dollars in, and we put them in whether we have children or we don`t have children. And the reason we do that is because we want our children to get an education. We want to encourage them.
And we now understand that post-high school education is necessary to have a ticket to make it in America`s middle class. And that may be technical school, it may be two-year college, it may be four-year college, and frankly, we`ve known that for a long time. And for a long time, taxpayers also invested in that.
I am the proud graduate of the University of Houston which was supported by taxpayers so that a kid whose daddy ended up as a janitor, whose mom work the phones at Sears, could go to a four-year college and pay $50 a semester in order to get my diploma. So there was a time, because of taxpayer support, if you worked a part-time waitressing job, you could make it through and get two years, four years, technical school, what you needed on what you could pay for on a part-time job. That has gone away.
[18:30:00]
The investments in higher ed. Investments in post-high school education have gone down. And now young people who have the -- did not have the foresight to be born into a family that could afford to write a check for them to go to college, or really put to it. So, they borrow money in order to go to school. And sometimes it just doesn`t work out. In fact, Ari 40 percent of the people who have student loan debt right now, don`t have a college diploma. They tried, and God bless them for trying.
But somebody got pregnant, they were working three jobs and just couldn`t hold it together. Their mom got sick, they moved to another town. Exactly, all kinds of things happen to people, and now they earn what a high school grad earns, and yet they`re trying to manage college debt. And the position right now of the federal government, our official policy is just keeps squeezing them. The United States government is one of the most aggressive debt collectors when it comes to student loan debt.
You know, you could go into bankruptcy, and you could deal with your credit card debt, you could deal with your car loan, you could deal with your home mortgage, but not your student loan debt. There are people today who are paying off student loan debt out of their social security checks that are being garnished. So, I say all this by way of saying there`s a fundamental question here. Are we going to invest in people who are trying to get an education or not?
And for those who tried and who are struggling with student loan debt. Are we going to keep saying nope, it`s more important to squeeze them or it`s more important to say, we`re going to make an investment in you, we`re going to cancel $50,000 of student loan debt. And when that happens, you have a chance to save up money and buy a house, you have a chance to start a small business, you have chance to start a family, you have a chance to build for yourself, but also to build for our whole economy.
We invest in kids K. to 12, because we know we`re all better off. If people get the education they need, we should make that same investment in our young people today. Canceled $50,000 of student loan debt. That`s step one, then we need to deal with how we`re going to pay for college going forward for the rest of our kids.
And we`ve got lots of plans for doing that. And we need to hold our schools accountable, that they`re turning out kids who have an education and they`re doing it with -- without raising prices fast. We got a lot of work in front of us, but it starts with canceling student loan debt.
MELBER: Loads of big issue here on the home front with everything else going on. Senator Elizabeth Warren on more than one topic. Thank you so much.
WARREN: So good to see you. Thank you.
MELBER: Great to see you. Great to have you. Coming up. We have an update on Justice Jackson and how Goofy is owning Ron DeSantis, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:37:19]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SETH MEYERS, HOST, NBC: Do you really think it`s a smart move to go after Disney? Republicans, what`s next? Are Eric and Don Jr. going to go on one of their hunting trips looking for Bambi?
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS: DeSantis wants Disney to return to celebrating traditional family units, one woman and seven dwarves as God intended.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Some comics roasting with does seem like an odd fight. Republican Ron DeSantis using his power as Florida governor to retaliate against Disney for opposing his new laws and attack on equal rights and free speech. DeSantis trying to limit how gender identity is referenced in schools. That`s the law. Republicans simply did not respect Disney`s free speech on the topic. They swiftly revoked a law that granted the company`s independent operating status there. And DeSantis may have thought this would play out as him getting tough on Mickey and Goofy at no major costs.
But now there are reports the crackdown itself could cost Florida, up to a billion dollars because of a long-time state law. Disney says it does not have to follow DeSantis` attempted crackdown and can do business as usual until the state finds that billion dollars. DeSantis thought he was getting in a quick jab at Disney. But now it looks like either he loses that attempt or he has to raise taxes to fund this anti-free speech agenda, which may not be very popular in Florida.
And that brings it all back to what those comics were joking about. Why pick a fight with Goofy? No matter what you end up looking Goofy. That`s why the slang term Goofy refuses to someone who is an ignorant, silly customer, one who does not know the value of a product or money. That`s why future and Lil Durk famously talk about cutting off Goofies who get no money, declaring they don`t mess with none of these Goofy, Goofy, Goofies. So, they certainly would not mess with Ron DeSantis who tried to fight Goofy, only to have it blow up in his face and out himself as a Goofy.
And that`s just well, Goofy. And that`s all I have to say about that. Coming up, we get into some of the biggest political clashes in America right now and how culture is shaping them with a special guest. And before the hours done, news on Judge Jackson taking that seat on the United States Supreme Court.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:44:07]
MELBER: From clashes over COVID to foreign policy 2020 shaping up to be another chaotic year around the world. Many artists continue to shape political debates as they lead digital followings that are larger than ever. From Russian musicians who are proven Putin critics. To Colombian reggaeton star, J. Balvin speaking out on vaccines and equities. To Ariana Grande continuing advocacy for gun safety in the years since terrorists tragically killed over 50 people at her concert.
Those last two artists are managed by Scooter Braun, the music entrepreneur who`s up ended the business with online innovation, documentary storytelling, and a roster of superstars. Which brings us to our new Summit Series interview airing now for the first time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: We are joined by one of the most accomplished moguls in the industries of music and culture. Scooter Braun is behind so many well-known artists from Justin Bieber to Ariana Grande to J. Balvin.
[18:45:00]
One of Times 100 most influential people in the world and many other things. You have a record of identifying value that other experts didn`t see, you`ve done that with artists, you`ve done it with investments. How do you do that?
SCOOTER BRAUN, MUSIC EXECUTIVE: I would probably say it`s a combination of luck. And, and just a gut. You know, sometimes I just get a feeling in my gut that -- it`s almost like falling in love, you can`t just walk out to the supermarket and fall in love. It just shows up when it shows up, and you feel it. And I think that that`s happened to me many times in my career. Where I`ve been able to feel something and say, this is special.
MELBER: With Justin Bieber, you discovered, launched, faced industry-wide rejection at first, and then went on to really tell his story in a new way. And people would also say to you, all right, you could do this, but don`t make a movie about him. He made a movie about him, but outsource the other stuff, leave it to the experts. You keep pushing back and sort of doing it yourself. Does that empower artists to be more themselves if more of it`s basically being done in house or from their own view and not some other company?
BRAUN: Well, I find that question really interesting. Because I`ve seen recently, both sides. I`ve seen people say, oh, you`re giving artists voice and I`ve seen other people criticize. Well, how serious can I take this if, you know this is if an artist is involved. If the artist is involved in the storytelling of this documentary --
MELBER Why, because I mean, we`re here doing journalism. It`s different if it`s from the outside, there`s a credibility outside. But there`s an authenticity inside.
BRAUN: Well, I think it goes both ways. If you`re making a documentary, that`s just a fluff piece and not telling the truth, people are going to smell that out because they`re going to continue to see that career and see where it goes. But if you look at Demi Lovato`s most recent documentary, their point of view was 100 percent, in that documentary, and they told the truth. And at the end, Demi was saying, you know, I believe in this kind of sobriety, and we were saying, well, we don`t necessarily agree. And then, later on, Demi addressed it and said, I now believe something different.
But at the time, that documentary was very real and very exposed. And brutally honest, to a point it made some people uncomfortable. And I think that sometimes an artist isn`t necessarily going to give you that brutal truth unless they`re allowed to be involved in the story process. And you have to find a filmmaker who they can trust.
MELBER: What you`re talking about would seem, well tell me if I`m wrong, to be above and beyond just the business bottom line, and that interplay you`re talking about in that film is the same with where we see you with J. Balvin. And you`re showing the debate, you`re not showing the finished product and saying, isn`t he great? Look what he did. You`re actually honestly showing that back and forth, which for some people in his country are big based on the politics, they might criticize that and say it should have been obvious upfront what to do.
BRAUN: Yes, they did.
MELBER: So, how do you do that as the business guy, or is that the wrong read on you?
BRAUN: I think it`s the wrong read. I`m a firm believer in what I call authentic marketing. I think if you tell the truth. In today`s world, if you really expose what`s happening, if you really give the bottom line of who these people are, you`re going to have more of a long-term career. I mean, if you look at it today, with streaming, we have a la carte music. You can go on or you can listen anything in the world in your pocket right now. But if I named to you platinum-selling artists of albums, you can tell me their story.
You can say Katy Perry came from a Christian background and broke out. You can say 50 Cent, you know, got shot, and he went there. You could say Kanye had his accident. And you know, this than the other. And you could say Justin Bieber discovered on YouTube and all the path from there. If you want to have a long-term career, you don`t think about the quick money graph. You think about telling the truth and building a fan base that believes in you because people don`t want to believe in a myth. They actually want to believe in something that they can relate to, and something that`s human is more relatable.
MELBER: Has that dynamic always been true or is it more pronounced in our mediated age?
BRAUN: I think that -- look, David Bowie before could wear the costume and then disappear into his life and take it off. You know, he take the makeup off and just be David Bowie. I think now in today`s age, because of social media, and because of smartphones. It`s more important than ever to be real and authentic and true to your -- to who your brand is.
MELBER: So, the process or the interplay that I mentioned is something that really we see in a boy from Medellin.
BRAUN: Yes, J. Balvin.
MELBER: Let`s take a look at that.
BRAUN: When you sign up to be a musician. Your goal is never to be a politician. But when you get a platform bigger than politicians, when you get a platform that you can inspire people around the world. It also comes with a responsibility. If you look at the history of musicians, artists have always been on the forefront of moving things forward. Because they`re the voice of people, you know, like NWA. You know, like, they were the voice of that neighborhood. Great artists are the ones that use their voice for other people.
[18:50:00]
MELBER: You`re taking a position. Did you know what he would do? He did follow your advice, so to speak.
BRAUN: I was a -- in the end, you know, that`s a tough situation. It`s a different culture, it`s a different place. And he wanted to do right by his people. And he went on that stage. And if you watch that film, it was really powerful, what he said on that stage, and he did speak for the people. And I was very proud of him.
MELBER: You`ve also said that as a dad, Donald Trump`s leadership was a problem -- was an ethical problem. Do you think about him running again?
BRAUN: I know if he was to run, he would not have my vote. I shouldn`t have to come in and explain to my five-year-old, you know, issues of race, or anyone who`s disabled, and have them ask me questions that normally should come from a bully in a schoolyard. And have those questions actually be because of the comments made by the president of the United States when I left him alone in a room. I`m not OK with that.
Artists have played a very significant role like I was telling J. Balvin about in -- in our process of civil rights. So, Sidney Poitier actually funded a lot of Martin Luther King`s marches and played a very large role in helping in those movements. But my belief is, if an artist is willing to do the research, and educate themselves, then they deserve to have a voice just as much as anyone else.
MELBER (voiceover): We also discuss success, fame, and how you deal with failure, and what Scooter thinks it means to reach the summit. Here`s a few more highlights.
A lightning round, Ariana Grande?
BRAUN: Kind, talented, generous.
MELBER: And Clive Davis?
BRAUN: Legend.
MELBER: Justin Bieber?
BRAUN: Coming into his own leadership, talented, caring.
MELBER: So, what does it tell you that so many labels passed on it?
BRAUN: They weren`t paying attention. You don`t go through life trying to be remembered for your name. I can tell someone`s going to be a star when I get that gut feeling and they want the mic. The Beatles probably felt the same way when Michael Jackson bought their publishing. What you can`t do is say that you want something and then never ever sit down at the table to have an actual dialogue.
MELBER: The best way to manage an artist is?
BRAUN: To be honest.
MELBER: The person I wish I discovered is?
BRAUN: You.
MELBER: A little interview flattery, I get it.
BRAUN: At the end of the day. I think artists should actually have ownership. Let`s push the limits. Failure means you`re on a pitstop to success.
MELBER: Reaching the summit means?
BRAUN: I don`t think you ever reached the summit. I think we`re all on this journey until one day we`re not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER (voiceover): That`s a note Scooter left us on. This is a wide- ranging Summit Series interview we hear from leaders at the summit of their fields. And as you can see here, go to @thebeatwithari on Twitter, no matter who owns it. And you can find the link there or just go on YouTube where we post the entire interview search Melber and Scooter or Ari Melber and Scooter Braun. And on YouTube, you can find our entire discussion. There`s a lot more and again, our thanks to Scooter Braun for sitting down with us.
We talked as you saw their politics, music, global issues. Really enjoyed the conversation. So, I encourage you to see the whole thing. We released the full interview so you guys can take it all in. Now we are going to fit in a break. But when we come back when exactly will Justice Jackson be on the Supreme Court, the official news on that broke today and we have the update next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:57:45]
MELBER: There`s more news on the fallout from those audio tapes of Kevin McCarthy and other Republicans in the days after the January 6th insurrection. Today the chairman of the January 6th committee which of course is openly investigating all this, discussing why they want to talk to McCarthy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want to hear from Kevin McCarthy?
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Yes, we`ve invited him to come earlier before the latest revelation that was reported on tapes. So, in all probability, he will be issued another invitation to come just like some other members.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he doesn`t respond to that invitation, second invitation would you subpoena him at that point?
THOMPSON: Well, that`ll be a consideration for the committee to decide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: This goes to why the entire investigation is so tricky when it`s run out of the House because this has become more and more of a partisan brawl, according to Republicans. Democrats say they -- Democrats and the few Republicans joined the committee say they just want to get all the facts and all the witnesses if McCarthy has nothing to hide, why not come in and explain himself.
Finally, tonight we mark an era on the Supreme Court. I can tell you today was the final oral arguments including the participation of retiring Justice Stephen Breyer. Chief Justice Roberts offered this send-off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, CHIEF JUSTICE, SUPREME COURT: The oral argument we have just concluded is the last. The court will hear with Justice Breyer on the bench. For 28 years, this has been his arena for remarks profound and moving questions challenging and insightful, and hypotheticals downright silly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That last line is what passes for a little bit of humor on the Supreme Court. Many hypotheticals are used and apparently, they thought some of them were on the sillier side. That means as Justice Breyer retires, Justice Jackson will join the bench.
As always, thanks for spending time with me here on THE BEAT. We did a lot tonight including that new interview with music mogul Scooter Braun, you can always find that as I mentioned @thebeatwithari or @arimelber online. You can find me at Ari Melber on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, Twitter, which has been so much in the news these days. As always, we appreciate you joining us here at 6:00 p.m. Eastern. I`ll see you tomorrow at the same time. "THE REIDOUT" with Joy Reid starts now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)