Summary
Russia expanded its offensive to western Ukraine, firing missiles near the city of Lviv and hitting a large military base close to the Polish border. Putin vows Russia will prevail in Ukraine but glitch hinders TV. The confirmation hearings for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, President Biden's nominee to become the first Black woman Associate Justice of the US Supreme Court, are expected to begin on Monday.
Transcript
NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Some really important reporting. I'm really glad we got to talk to both of you about it. Nick Kearsney (ph), the Reverend Al Sharpton, thank you both so much. And thank you to all of you for letting us into your homes for another week of shows during these extraordinary times. We're so grateful. THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER starts right now. Hi, Ari.
[18:00:16]
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Hi, Nicolle. Thank you so much. Welcome to THE BEAT everyone. I am Ari Melber. We are tracking what is now day 23 of Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Russian troops clearly stalled in some of their advances today they're expanding their attacks on civilian areas with the aerial bombing of an airport in the western city of Lviv that had been something of a safe haven for refugees. Their mayor is responding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How significant is the airstrike overnight and how long before you believe the Russians will start targeting civilians potentially here in Lviv?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Mariupol bombardments, Kharkiv, Lviv, I feel equally the same pain in my heart. They are destroying the basically the body of Ukraine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But can you guarantee their safety?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Only God. only God can guarantee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: And the capital Russia bombing more than one residential neighborhood. We're seeing an entire apartment complex destroyed that would be another civilian target. Firefighters responding flames smoldering blood on the wall. On the sink. You'll see here on this destroyed apartment some of the interior footage. Homes are gutted. Here's one father reacting to the loss of the family's home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I don't even know how to describe this Mykhailo (ph) says. I don't have the words. He pauses. He can't quite find strong enough phrases for what his family's going through right now. There is no humanity here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: And in Mariupol, the crisis is unfolding with 1,300 people are still reportedly trapped inside that theater where we reported on the bombing two days ago. Ukrainian officials say they were able to get 130 people out rescued with their work over the past day.
Back in Lviv, a powerful symbol of the human toll. 130 empty strollers lined up here. That is what the Ukrainian people have put out here in this display. It is one stroller for each child killed in this invasion thus far.
In Moscow, a very different set of scenes. Vladimir Putin held a pep rally you see right here. This is today, Friday in Moscow and almost Olympic style gathering. You see the people are out in force. It was billed as a celebration of the eighth anniversary of the annexing of Crimea. You see Putin there speaking out in public.
This is actually his first public appearance since the invasion. He touted the Russian troops. He reupped some of his propaganda claims about the false idea that there's somehow denazifying Ukraine, a Western democracy that has no links to Nazism and happens to be headed by a Jewish president, if you want to bring up Nazis.
At one point, there was also a performance of the song made in the USSR. The lyrics there were quote Ukraine and Crimea, Belarus and Moldova it's all my country, end quote. So that's how the leader of Russia is rolling today.
Meanwhile, in America, President Biden held a two-hour call with the leader of China warning of consequences if they go too far in their alliance and ongoing help for Russia in this war. You are now up to date on the latest in the war.
We want to bring in our experts. Ruth Ben-Ghiat is a history professor with NYU, the author of "Strongmen: Mussolini to the Present." Julia Davis writes for The Daily Beast and as a Russian media analyst who follows much of this.
And Julia, we wanted to call on your expertise in particular to understand what was that rally today? How does that fit in? I showed the visuals and with the warning that it is propaganda of a kind. I want to play a little bit of what Vladimir Putin said. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: Namely to liberate the people from this genocide, of these sufferings, this is the main reason, motive and goal of the military operation which we have launched in the Donbass and Ukraine. This is what the goal is.
You know, I reconnect the words from the Holy Scripture: Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for this friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: What he's really trying to do there is to superimpose the excitement that there was in Russia?
JULIA DAVIS, T HE DAILY BEAST COLUMNIST: What he's trying to do there is super impose the excitement that there was in Russia where there was nearly unanimous support for Russia annexing Crimea, and he is looking for the same excitement with respect to Russia's ongoing invasion of the rest of Ukraine, because as sanctions are starting to hit, he will need to summon that idea of patriotism to convince the people that it was all worth it.
[18:05:12]
MELBER: And, Julia, same question, and what do you see here in this sort of Vistage of this strong man, some of this is updated, I suppose, technologically, but it tracks with some of the shows of force and tactics that you've charted about prior leaders in history.
RUTH BEN-GHIAT, NYU HISTORY PROFESSOR: Yes, it's really important --
MELBER: You know, I misspoke. I meant Ruth./
BEN-GHIAT: It's OK.
MELBER: Which I think you understood, as a journalist, I would have to correct myself. I meant Ruth, my apologies.
BEN-GHIAT: That's OK. So it's important that we know why these people were there. Some of them probably are there because they approved but we know from reporting that many of them were bussed in, that their state employees that they were told that there would be consequences if they weren't there. And this is what strong men do. This is what the fascist did. They need those people to be there to show support.
And many of those people are not interested in being there. Pinochet did the same way, if you didn't show up to his rallies, you wouldn't get a bank loan. You could be fired from your job. So we always need to look at the context of the propaganda.
But it's also psychologically really interesting that this is his first appearance on the anniversary of the annexation of Crimea, because I think that he, you know, part of his miscalculation is that he got a big popularity surge from Crimea, and I think he thought it would be the same. So you feel safe to -- he's like living this past glory of the annexation, what it did for him before, but it's not the same now.
MELBER: And so, Julia to Ruth's point there, how clear would that be to the potential audience across Russia? That it's not a legitimate gathering? And it's not all free citizens? Are people broadly aware of that? Or how much does this quote unquote, work?
DAVIS: People are absolutely broadly aware of that. As a matter of fact, when they try to convince them that anti-Putin rallies are organized and paid for, they believe it because they know that that's how pro-Putin rallies and these patriotic rallies are organized.
So they are absolutely aware of that. And some of them have spoken to the producers and news reporters present on the scene and anonymously admitted that they're anti-war. They didn't want to be there. And it's something that that across the board, many people know.
MELBER: Yes. And President Biden's diplomat at the UN was speaking out as well today. Let's take a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UN: Last week, we heard from the Russian representative a tirade of bizarre conspiracy theories. This week, we're hearing a whole lot more where that came from, things that sound like they were forwarded to him on a chain e-mail from some dark corner of the internet. President Biden has a word for this kind of talk, malarkey. But we know that Russia's disinformation is a sign of his desperation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That's the pushback on the global stage. And Ruth, does time matter here are things that would be easier for an autocrat to get away with over a short amount of time? Do they face some larger barometric pressure? If you're asking the Russian people not only with the casualties reported on north of 7,000, according to U.S. intelligence, but just writ large, the other problems associated with this war if it stretches into months, does that quote unquote malarkey travel less effectively?
BEN GHIAT: I think so because the effects, the combined effects of the sanctions and also soldiers are -- soldiers who are sent to fight a war that's not really legitimate, and they're not told about what they're going to be doing, then they come back home or they're taken prisoner. We've seen a couple of POW videos and this trickles back.
And soldiers have a lot of prestige and solidarity amongst society. And so between the effects of the sanctions and this, the military trickle of information, the longer it goes on, the more hollow the leader's word seen.
And it's interesting, you know, Putin, this is a kind of religious fanatic crusade for Putin. It's not just about Ukraine, it's about unseating a whole model of civilization. And but that's just rhetoric, and it's going to seem more like rhetoric, the longer this stretches on.
MELBER: Julia.
DAVIS: Yes, it absolutely is very important for Putin to convince people now that there are good reasons for this to continue in longer because a propagandist on state television initially assured them that Ukrainians would be meeting them with baked pies and flowers. And this would be fast and easy.
[18:10:11]
And now the same propagandists are pleading with Putin on live TV to cut this short if he can, of course, they are not called back after they did that. But it's happening, there are cracks in the facade, they're realizing this is not going well. And the longer it goes, the more difficult it will be for them to sell it as a successful so called Operation when it's really nothing less than the war.
MELBER: And final question, Julia, because you track this. We've heard from other experts, Ambassador McFaul and others about the extent of the digital crackdown by Putin, that plenty of people who live in Russia and are going about their lives and may have their certain views of the government.
But take it, that part of their life is still that they can go online for even apolitical purposes, and get on Facebook or whatever. Do you have a sense of how that crackdown is playing with people who might have suddenly felt like wait a minute, even if they're not, quote unquote, anti-Putin? It seems like a change in their daily life and a potential cause of alarm to see parts of the internet blacked out that way.
DAVIS: I believe it will absolutely backfire. Because it's only a matter of time before people that bought into this story will start to question, why is the fallout so severe? And what are they hiding, and even their VPNs are being blocked now to prevent them from learning more about what's happening.
Although younger people, the majority of them know what's going on. It's the older generation more of the former Soviet citizens that are buying into this idea and are still excited about this invasion by whatever name is imposed on it
But it is affecting people. And what Arnold Schwarzenegger did, for example, and then he placed it on the social media that is still accessible to them like Telegram. That was brilliant that had an enormous impact. And I think that our public officials, government officials, even on the level of the presidential administration, putting those messages out that they can't ignore, will make a difference.
MELBER: Interesting. Really great getting the breakdown from two experts here, Julia Davis, and Ruth Ben Ghiat. Thanks to both of you.
Now we go inside Ukraine. Cal Perry reporting from Lviv even the West, which has seen some of those recent bombings.
BEN GHIAT: Thank you.
MELBER: And Cal, viewers have seen --thank you, both. Our viewers, Cal, have seen you out there. And there was a time in the very beginning of the invasion, where you emphasize that you were in areas that were quieter by no means safe, still inside Ukraine and everyone understands that but quieter than that seems to be changing exactly where you are. Tell us about that.
CAL PERRY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, it was just after six in the morning when for rockets impacted somewhere near to the airport. These rockets were fired from thousands of miles away. The actual air defense systems here knocking two of them out of the air, four got through the. Air raid sirens, Ari, were right on. They had it timed out perfectly. The rockets setting about 20 minutes after those air raid sirens went off.
What has changed here is a hardening of positions as you're alluding to. This is a city that is now taking steps to prepare itself for further airstrikes. We're seeing sort of a doubling up of sandbags, not just on government buildings and police stations, but also cultural sites as well. Statues, churches. This city seemingly want to protecting its history as well as the people who live here.
The worst of the fighting is still in places like Mariupol. We have some new video in for Mariupol tonight that shows civilians for the first time in three or four days, able to get above ground and get some food. And then some good news, Ari, frankly, from the north of the country in the city of Sumy, we saw the United Nations pull off their first really successful humanitarian corridor. They were able to get both food and water restored. Food restored to some 35,000 residents and water restored to 50,000 residents of that city. That is the first again humanitarian quarter that we've seen have any major success, Ari.
MELBER: That's one note of some potential help for people and good to know. Cal Perry, thank you very much.
Let me tell him what's coming up tonight because while we will continue our war coverage, I also have something special tonight for you. Exclusive reporting of what's going on inside the White House as it pushes this historic Supreme Court nomination and the clash in Washington. Those confirmation hearings begin Monday. So you'll see our trip to the White House only on THE BEAT later tonight.
Also, the Russian government the Kremlin praising Fox News, why and what's the response in America. And later, we also are joined by a college student who fled Ukraine with some family members still stuck behind. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:18:37]
MELBER: Over 3 million refugees have managed to leave Ukraine since this Russian invasion began many to neighboring Poland and that includes our next guest right now, Diana Chipak. Just three months ago, she was studying in America at Bennington College after returning home to Ukraine for the winter break. She in some of her family made the difficult choice to leave as this war broke out. And they have made their -- she's made her way to Poland with two of her siblings. Her parents and remaining sibling though are still in that Lviv region, where we just had that report from Cal Perry, where you see scenes like this as Russian airstrikes hit today.
Diana Chipak joins me now from Warsaw, Poland as we get a personal perspective on what people are going through. Thanks for being here.
DIANA CHIPAK, COLLEGE STUDENT WHO FLED FROM UKRAINE TO POLAND: Thank you for having me.
MELBER: Sure. We cover this story in many different ways. You like many people, as I mentioned, over 3 million refugees are going through it. Tell us just about your journey in your own words what you've been doing.
The journey was actually quite easy. There are many things that are set for the refugees to travel to safe places and I was able to travel by a flex bus that is free of charge. And what I've seen is an amazing support from Polish people like nothing ever before.
[18:20:00]
We were fed at the border, we were given hot drinks. And when we arrived actually at the central train station. We've seen an enormous number of Polish volunteers helping out Ukrainians as well. So all in all, it's been just an amazing experience of consolidation and kindness on behalf of Polish people.
MELBER: It's really striking to hear you explain that and sort of from your personal perspective, and we've covered it. I think Americans and other viewers have seen some of those displays of goodwill and some of the very practical and logistical ways they're supporting people fleeing Ukraine, as mentioned, some of your family didn't leave. Tell me about that decision and how your family's doing.
CHIPAK: Right, so my dad is in the category of 18 to 60s, so he cannot leave the country. And my mom would never leave without him. As well as my 15-year-old sister Tirap (ph) has stayed behind was my parents. It's definitely heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking to see my sister Tirap (ph), as three of her older siblings, were leaving on a train to go somewhere abroad with, you know, no due date as to when we are going to be back.
MELBER: How many people are in the situation you're in, how many people do you know, personally or in communication online or whatnot who are navigating this split family situation?
CHIPAK: There are definitely a lot of people who are being left behind like, families with very small children or people who are handicapped or elderly who are unable to endure the long journey of traveling and settling down in new place.
So I would say, you know, the healthy and women mostly with children are the ones who are leaving. But I would say definitely every single or every second family has a family member right now that's still staying in Ukraine.
MELBER: What is your hope to reunite the whole family or specifically to reunite back in Ukraine somehow, someday?
CHIPAK: You know, while I've been studying abroad, I went to high school in Canada, and I'm currently attending Bennington College in Vermont, on the east coast of the U.S., I've always planned to continue my professional life in Ukraine to build something in my country. And I would say that's true for many of us, all across the globe.
So, my hope is that as soon as the war ends by us winning, I have no doubt in that. I've seen the incredible resilience of our national forces as well as the territorial defense. And all of the people have been coming together, both inside of the country and the international community for us to fight for our freedom, democracy and what we believe in. So my hope is that we will be able to come back together and join the forces to rebuild our country.
MELBER: Understood, and you've been very clear in sharing your experience, very straightforward in your manner, even though it seems like a very harrowing time. So we appreciate that people can learn from your experience from what you've shared with us. Diana Chipak, thank you.
CHIPAK: Thank you so much for having me.
MELBER: Absolutely. Appreciate it. We are going to tell everyone what else we have going on recovering this war. Tonight, we're also covering what's happening in America, Democrats are criticizing Republicans who voted against Ukraine aid. Some of them are even trying to say that President Biden started the war. That's one Ted Cruz style attack.
Over two dozen Republicans also voted against a measure that would provide nearly $14 billion in both humanitarian and military assistance. Some of the same lawmakers saying things like Biden must, quote, step up his game. And he had to be pulled to this by Congress to do the right thing. And the White House must be, quote, held accountable for action up to this point.
Now, some Republicans have also said that their vote shouldn't be construed as anything other than a vote against a larger spending bill. And that can be a fair defense, because in Congress, there's often a lot of different appropriations slammed together.
Then there are those who have had enough. Lindsey Graham telling the party stop sending, quote, mixed messages. He says it should have been unanimous given the world stakes. Russian state TV is using some of the comments of a Republican lawmaker as its own propaganda are in clips of Madison Cawthorn calling Zelenskyy a thug which is reminiscent of other international propaganda efforts like the way the Kremlin has gotten Russian state TV to air Fox is Tucker Carlson.
[18:25:17]
And then today, full circle Russia's Foreign Minister who used to hang with Trump in the Oval Office now praising Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIA FOREIGN MINISTER: There is no such thing as an independent Western media. You could do the United States only Fox News is trying to present some alternative point of view.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Many people first learn Zelenskyy's name and other details of this region from the high profile impeachment. Well, now some of the same Republicans who defended Donald Trump's busted caught extortion plot against Zelenskyy, which remember withheld military money from Ukraine or leaning in as a Republican who claims the current crisis somehow validates Trump's past scheme.
Another blames Democrats and whistleblowers for harboring Ukraine. If you're old enough to remember the impeachment, though, you might remember that many of the folks there said the whole thing wouldn't be a big deal even if true. What are we to do with something so pathetic and Baroque and yet tied to important things that are foreign policy?
We have David Corn, who first broke the story on those Kremlin memos, or we're back in just one minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We're joined now by Washington bureau chief for Mother Jones David Corn. He broke the story on Kremlin memos instructing Russian state TV day or Fox's Tucker Carlson as part of their domestic and international propaganda effort.
David, we just went through some of the highlights and lowlights, I hand you the mic as someone who's covered the intersection of American foreign policy and politics for a long time and broke that story. What do you think of all the above?
DAVID CORN, MOTHER JONES WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF. : You know, it's heartbreaking in a way. I'm still moved by the guests just had on who's only one out of 3 million Ukrainians who had to flee their country and witnessing this tremendous violence of the destruction and slaughtering of civilians, people still trapped in Mariupol theater, and you turn to American politics, and it's still just gamesmanship, trolling from Republicans.
We have Marjorie Taylor Greene, saying that Biden is weak. That's why it happened. He has dementia. A couple of weeks ago, she appeared with a neo- Nazi at a white supremacist conference, when they were shouting in unison, Putin, Putin, Putin. And now she's out there, you know, getting amplified on conservative media. And I don't see Republicans are fighting against that.
You have Ted Cruz, who really, if we gave out an Oscar for performative politics, he would surely win it every year. I mean, it's whatever his position is, it's like, OK, well, how can I position myself to be against the Democrats, against Biden, and hopefully set up a presidential run if Trump doesn't go into the race?
I mean, it's some point. I mean, I feel like, you know, like, was named the lawyer, Welsh in the army McCarthy hearings, at long last have you know decency, at long last, can we put this aside for a moment? The risk of nuclear war is up. We're witnessing these ravages that are, you know, we've seen them in in Yemen and Syria and other places, but we're seeing them now in Europe, next door to NATO allies, and so many Republicans still can't get serious.
You have you know, what you showed Madison Cawthorn calling Zelenskyy a thug. And then you have Fox News, which for weeks and for months has been informing its viewers, that Ukraine's not a country, it doesn't matter. It's all corrupt. It's all about the Biden's, Biden Biden's night before, the night before the invasion. Steve Bannon and Eric Prince were on Bannon's podcast laughing and saying Putin is a great guy because he's anti-woke. And, you know, and Ukraine's not really a country, it's just a corrupt, you know, Clinton appendage. I don't even know where they get this from. So the conservative side, the right, we're terrible, up to the invasion. Some are trying to attack back now, but a lot still see it as a political game. And that's just tragic.
MELBER: Yes, that's fair. And when you look at even the politics of foreign policy, it's hard to think of something recent where the right wing are doves, because they're doves towards Putin. No one is talking about boots on the ground, there's no appetite for that. But when it comes to the military aid, to standing up to him, to using the resources of NATO, they're doves. But they're angry lying doves. So they have the posture, the mood of some sort of potential toughness.
The vitriol against Biden, while they literally, as we just documented, vote against Ukraine military aid, and as I always take pains to point out as a journalist, you can have a debate about foreign policy and intervention, you don't have to support every military funding bill. But you do owe the people an honest debate about what's happening when folks are over there dying and fleeing, rather than a dishonest one designed to take was I call it, as I call it, angry shots at Biden for no reason when you're actually the dove.
And so, I'm curious, what do you think about that? Because it's certainly a little different than the optics of the Iraq war politics that you covered in your book and elsewhere.
CORN: Well, the key words there are policy debate. There can be policy differences, you know, but you need to have these policy debates within a democracy decide what we're going to do. It's very vexing to figure out what to do in Ukraine, how far do you go in, in terms of helping militarily when there is the threat of direct engagement with Russia, and which can, you know, when two parties that are nuclear armed. That's a very tough question for a President and for a population to deal with.
And I think the obligation of anybody who's elected to represent us is to kind of sit down and make that debate go as well as possible. You may not win policy wise with your views, but it should be a real strong debate based on policy expertise. And you will be -- it will be shaped by policy differences. And so, you know, it's easy to say when you're, you know, when you are more supportive of the President on the other side, that now is the time to rally around, right?
And I don't mean they shouldn't be criticizing Biden for policy differences, they really should stop the -- he's weak, demented. This is all his fault, particularly after what we've seen with Trump and what he did with Ukraine, which is basically just use it to try to get dirt on Biden and to promote Soviet. So -- excuse me, Russian disinformation about Ukraine attacking the US election in 2016.
MELBER: Yes, yes. Well, David --
CORN: -- putting here.
MELBER: Yes. Russia is not the Soviet Union but your laps is somewhat more understandable on a day when Vladimir Putin led that kind of propaganda rally, which in some ways did have a Soviet architecture underneath its goals. As mentioned, you've been reporting on this for a long time, which is why we came to you today, David Corn, thank you as always, sir.
CORN: Good to be with you, Ari.
MELBER: Appreciate it. Coming up, as we track this historic nomination, I'm going to show you something that you won't see anywhere else. I can say that literally because we go inside the White House, in-person, talking to the team guiding Judge Jackson towards Monday's hearings. We're also going to bring the latest from Ukraine as well as civilians fighting back by the end of this show, but my trip into the White House is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: President Biden is balancing the war in Ukraine with governing at home, including the push to get his first Supreme Court pick confirmed. The clash over those confirmation hearings begins this Monday when Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson faces senators for the first time. And we have a special guest right here to preview those hearings for you.
Before we begin that conversation, we also have something special for you to end this long week. I want to share with you some of my new reporting from inside the White House, where I just caught up with the team guiding Jackson towards Monday's hearings as Biden and his aides tout this historic nomination. Here is our Beat SCOTUS Special Report airing for the first time now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, NOMINEE TO BECOME 116TH ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE US SUPREME COURT: I am truly humbled by the extraordinary honor of this nomination.
MELBER (voice-over): That's good Ketanji Brown Jackson in her Supreme Court nomination announcement. As the US eyes a war in Ukraine and challenges at home, getting Jackson confirmed is the top priority domestically at the White House where we just got an inside look at the SCOTUS battle with the aides working on it, including Jen Psaki who recounted getting the news in these tense times.
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I learned Thursday evening, right after he made the call. Last week was such a intense week here because of the crisis in Ukraine that I really feel -- I didn't focus a lot on it until I was sitting in my office watching the President and Judge Jackson give remarks. And I got a little choked up because it was a moment where I felt just really proud to be here and proud to be a part of this.
MELBER (voice-over): Other White House staff reflected on the breakthrough, like Deputy Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre.
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRINCIPAL DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: We're talking about a Supreme Court that's been around for 230 years and has never had a woman, a Black woman on the court. And there's a video out there and people should watch it of the President congratulating and calling Judge Jackson.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: I like you to go to the Supreme Court, how about that?
JACKSON: Sir, I would be so honored.
BIDEN: I think it's important that you're incredibly well-qualified. And I think the court should look like the country. And I mean it.
JEAN-PIERRE: It meant the world to me. As a Black woman, as a mother to a young seven-year-old Black girl, for her to see that I got to go home and I got to tell her.
MELBER (voice-over): Judge Jackson brings more than one type of diversity to the bench. No one on the current court has experienced as a public defender, representing the accused and the convicted, a background she uses as a judge as she explained in her last confirmation hearing.
JACKSON: Most of my clients didn't really understand what had happened to them. When I became a trial judge, I take extra care to communicate with the defendants who come before me in the courtroom.
MELBER (voice-over): And Jackson rebutted a conservative criticism of defense lawyers arguing they have the same duty as former prosecutors who put past work aside to be neutral judges,
JACKSON: I would think that there would be no difference between defender experience and prosecutorial experience from the standpoint of whether or not someone can do what the law requires. And many, many prosecutors have been appointed as judges.
MELBER (voice-over): Legal liberals cheer that defense experience. But Biden's aides are quick to pivot to her police credentials.
If confirmed, the court will have its first public defender since Thurgood Marshall. Can you give us any insight into that and what Joe Biden was thinking?
PSAKI: You know, I think that there is a misconception of her in some ways that she is, because she is a public -- was a public defender, which is an incredibly interesting and compelling part of her backgrounds. That she leans one partisan way over another.
MELBER (voice-over): Psaki says Biden was drawn to Jackson as a jurist who bridges the divide from reform to law enforcement. He is somebody in his own life who believes that there needs to be reforms of the system, but also that we need to support the role that police officers are playing across the country. She was somebody who had just such an impeccable background and such an appeal across the board, a public defender who's who was endorsed by the Fraternal Order of Police, that he felt that would make her an excellent member of the court.
MELBER (voice-over): Psaki said that before the State of the Union, when Biden used his high profile speech to introduce his nominee.
BIDEN: A former federal public defender, from a family of public school educators and police officers. She's a consensus builder.
MELBER (voice-over): And that linked to Thurgood Marshall is notable. He was the first Black person on the court and the last defense lawyer given his work for the NAACP. At his confirmation hearings in 1967, he vowed to represent the US as a judge and discard any past feelings.
THURGOOD MARSHALL, FORMER ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm an advocate and I represent the United States government, and I'll do it the best I can personally emotions one way or the other, once you become an advocate, that's it.
MELBER (voice-over): Over 85% of that Senate voted to confirm Marshall, including most Republicans, a bygone era, just 53% of the current Senate voted to confirm Jackson to her current judgeship. Now she's begun meetings with top senators as the White House tapped moderate former Senator Doug Jones to lead her through the process.
She starts with what a ceiling of 53 votes?
DOUG JONES (D-AL), FORMER SENATOR: We're not taking a single vote for granted. You know, Ari, in a different time and a different place that would get overwhelming support, this lady. Well, I'm absolutely convinced to that. I've seen it happen before.
MELBER (voice-over): Jones says her credentials should hold together all 50 Democrats and maybe even pick off a few Republicans.
JONES: While this is historic, I also want people to really look at her qualifications because they're truly remarkable. She finished magna cum laude at Harvard, cum laude at Harvard Law School. She is clerked for both Republican and Democratic judges, clerked for Justice Breyer. This is the ideal of America that anybody can work hard and become a member of the United States Supreme Court. She embodies that, she embodies the American spirit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That's the report from the White House. And we're joined now as promised by Barbara Arnwine, president and founder of the Transformative Justice Coalition, and a longtime advocate for civil rights. Welcome back.
BARBARA ARNWINE, PRESIDENT/FOUNDER, TRANSFORMATIVE JUSTICE COALITION: It's great to be back on your show again, Ari. Thank you for having me.
MELBER: Absolutely. What do you see of the portrait we get there from the White House, which obviously has a very vested interest in pushing Judge Jackson and some of what we just heard from her. We'll hear a lot more on Monday when the whole nation tunes in.
ARNWINE: I can't wait for the nation to hear this woman, to hear her in her own voice and her own commitment. And she is really unique in the sense that she has fought so hard to be a really stellar jurist. That's what she is. Nine years on the bench, she has really advocated strongly for, you know, to be a good judge, fair, considerate, careful in her opinions. What I find amazing is when you look at the letters, you know, talking about supporting her from all the different, many diverse groups, how many cases of hers are cited, and how much people go into her jurisprudence and her reasoning, and her fairness. I think that just speaks volumes about her.
And I (inaudible) to the Black woman beyond excited, Ari. This is a moment in history that will be remembered forever, for all time. How long have we wanted and prayed for a Black woman to be nominated to the Supreme Court? I thought it was very fascinating that today that the letter that came from the ABA finding her well-qualified was written by former Judge Ann Claire Williams, who herself should be on that court right now, but for our history of just not nominating and pursuing really qualified, and excellent, and tremendous Black women.
MELBER: Well, you make several important points, including one that we've touched on before which is discrimination. By its very essence, is the non- meritocratic, non-substantive disappearance of people. So that not only hurts those people and is unfair period, it also hurts the rest of us in society when we're denied those talents and skills. So I appreciate your point there.
I'm curious what you thought of the White House. We showed this because I was there and talking to them. And it's always funny, as a journalist, a lot of civil rights advocates I know are excited that she would be the first defender as mentioned since Marshall. You bring that up around the White House and the politics of this. The first thing they say, yes, that's cool. That's cool. But look at the police endorsement, look at the other stuff. I'm curious what you think about all that.
ARNWINE: Well, I think it's hilarious, of course, because the beauty of Brown Jackson is that she is so amazingly well-qualified. And people got to realize that the Supreme Court takes up a lot of criminal justice cases every year. I have to teach, you know, the Supreme Court review each year. And I'm always shocked at some of their bad reasoning on some of these cases. And that just shows that they really don't have a grounding in criminal justice law, and an understanding of what the effect of their decisions will be.
So it's very, very important to have somebody who is grounded in criminal law. The White House is making a mistake. They should make that one of her strengths because that is a beauty for this nation. We need somebody on that court, who not only has the racial diversity, the gender diversity, the intersectionality of the two, but also who can bring so much more to the court. Her experience on that US Sentencing Commission, that has to be primary. We talked about, and how good she is working across, you know, ideologies and working across, you know, the (inaudible), as people like to say, and all the other things that she is just remarkable.
And I think that her constituent building within courts, her really careful and amazing judicial writing, and her experience as a criminal justice defender is going to make her just stellar. And I can't wait. Man, I want to see what Josh Hawley has to say, you know. I want to see what anybody has to say about her. I mean, didn't you think it was funny, Ari, that the best they could say when she was first nominated was that she was overqualified? That she was a Harvard twice. And that made her too elite? I was like, or really? Really?
MELBER: It's true. Either point you make, especially for jobs like that where education is part of it. It was something to say, gosh, I was suddenly this is too much Harvard. I didn't hear Harvard being a negative when it was John Roberts, et cetera.
I got to go to the break, Barbara. There's so much going on in the world but this is going to be an important thing for the reasons you've stated. For people who know you, they know your substantive enthusiasm. And if those don't know you, well, if they watch tonight, they see it. It's lovely to talk to you again.
ARNWINE: Thank you for having me. I remember, I advocated for a Black woman on the court during the Obama years. This is not new, folks. This is the combination of centuries of Black women's hearts, centuries of women's hearts, centuries of people seeking justice. Thank you.
MELBER: Yes, there it is. The last word on that from Barbara, thank you. When we come back, we look at some glimmers of hope abroad. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We're tracking new reports of the civilian toll in this war. Russian troops raising apartment buildings in Kyiv, blasting homes to rubble, and here destroying sometimes entire neighborhoods.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their life's work and all their possessions blown away in an instant. By chance the family weren't here, and they're still very much in shock.
I'm so sorry.
This is not war with some army, he says. This is war with humans just eliminating other humans. This is an atrocity for which no judge would ever find any justification.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Civilians huddling as they try to brace these attacks. A family that fled that conflict in Crimea, which we mentioned earlier, right back in 2014 is now sheltering again, this time in a building in Odessa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anna shows me where they all asleep now, a small square cupboard built from brick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): The shelling is very heavy we have a basement and we got there quickly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked her why she doesn't leave? She tells me she's tired of running from war.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): This is my home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Those are the words of the civilians, the regular people bracing this. We wanted to share that with you.
When I come back, we have one more update about what we're doing for that Supreme Court confirmation coverage next week, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: There is a lot going on, but as we recovering tonight Monday is going to be big day in America and for the Biden legal agenda with his historic Supreme Court nominee facing those confirmation hearings. We will be covering it on MSNBC but we'll be balancing the war coverage on air, which means there's another way you can join me on Monday. Take a look. A live YouTube discussion of Judge Jackson's hearings, I'll be joined by a special guest there, law professor Melissa Murray. It's youtube.com/msnbc.
Again, if you go right now to youtube.com/msnbc or to my Twitter page, @AriMelber, you can find the link. It sets a reminder technology is cool, and you can join us for that coverage Monday, even if the world is doing other things on air.
That's it for me. "THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID" starts now.