Summary
Russian forces appeared to be making a renewed offensive toward Kyiv, with Ukrainian troops engaging in a firefight on the outskirts of the capital. Russian forces continue to advance on two axes towards Kyiv. Russia widens its offensive on Ukraine, striking cities in the west and center of the country for the first time. President Joe Biden announced that the United States and allies would revoke Russia`s "most-favored nation" trade status in another blow to the Russian economy.
Transcript
NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: Thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows during these extraordinary times. We`re really grateful. THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER starts right now. Hi, Ari.
[18:00:11]
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Hi, Nicolle. Thank you very much. Welcome to THE BEAT everyone. I`m Ari Melber. And tonight, as Russia expands these attacks on Ukraine, we`re going to begin with brand new video. This is a firefight near the capital city of Kyiv. The footage is some of the first of its kind in this war that we`ve gotten from the ground in Ukraine.
And you`ll see these Ukrainian soldiers engaging in direct combat with enemy forces while advancing towards a village that is held by the Russians. One soldier can be heard saying, quote, this is for the bombing of Mariupol. The footage was shot by a crew of journalists we`ve been reporting on how journalists are of course in the danger zone trying to bring people the reality of this war. They are affiliated with Radio Free Europe embedded with this unit that you see.
And after we show you this new and newsworthy footage, we`ll be joined for expert analysis of it by General Barry McCaffrey, here is that new footage.
That is that new footage from Radio Free Europe there of the Ukrainians in that firefight.
General McCaffrey has consulted the footage is going to make sense of it for us. General, what are we witnessing there on how rare is it to have embedded footage like this?
BARRY MCCAFFREY, RETIRED FOUR STAR GENERAL: Sure, got my heart racing. And hopefully, Ukrainian soldiers are well equipped. They got both foreign and U.S. anti-tank systems. There`s only three things you can do as a dismounted infantry soldier, you can either stay in place and get shot at, pull back or move forward and they`re moving forward.
And then finally, I think the whole notion of dismounted Nymphaea (ph) with be -- I watched one on was carrying an AT anti-tank weapon. But fighting armor is a dismounted (INAUDIBLE), it requires a lot of courage and a lot of skill and the trust of your fellow soldiers. So, these are good troops and that`s an example of why they`re holding up the Russians.
MELBER: Yes, you say that this illustrates some of the resistance and you speak to the very nature of the specific danger when they are just out in the field like that quite literally just stand up soldiers in the field not hidden by tanks or anything else.
Let`s play a little bit of that firefight for your specific analysis of this part.
You can hear them radioing about the two tanks and then they`re on the move what`s happening there.
MCCAFFREY: Well, you know they`re trying to flank the enemy. The checkpoint, I assume had stopped the column. And this dismounted platoon size unit was moving to a flank that to take on the enemy armor and probably truck mounted imagery from a flank.
There also, I noticed conserving ammunition. I commanded a rifle company in combat and in some firefights, we`d dump 30,000 rounds of ammunition in, you know, 30 to 45 minutes. So they`re being very careful about looking for a target to engage them, good fire discipline.
The enemy forces are also fairly close. I mean, most of these gunfight are taking place at 200 yards or less range, so again, these are determined soldiers well equipped and doing what they have to do to stop the Russian forces.
[18:05:00]
MELBER: Yes, General McCaffrey giving us just the breakdown on what we`re seeing there. This is some of the most up close embedded footage we`ve had since the war began.
The general agreed to stay with us having updated you on that because we just thought it was striking footage that shows a new level of what we can see in the firefight. We want to give you of course at the top of the broadcast as well.
The update on the broader picture as Russia escalates this offensive heading into the weekend. They`ve attacked new cities with airstrikes. They are targeting civilian population centers. Overnight here they Dnipro in the east and Lutsk in the Northwest.
We`ve seen firefighters rescuing a woman from a destroyed building in Mariupol following the heavy bombardment there. The woman was in shock. You could see more blast could be heard in the distance. Others were caught in the rubble, who could not be saved.
Over 1,500 civilians have been killed already in Mariupol in the last 12 days. That statistic was provided by Ukraine`s foreign minister. Russian attacks also closing in on the capitol as more ground troops advanced there.
We also have satellite imagery, which suggests that that 40-mile long convo is back on the move. That`s something that`s been tracked for many days of the majority of this time period since Russia invaded. It is now, according to these aerial estimates, about 10 miles from the city center.
U.S. officials say Russia could surround Kiev in one to two weeks, that would be a siege like surrounding operation to then occupy the city.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, PENTRAGON PRESS SECRETARTL People of Kyiv would tell you they`re under assault right now. There`s Russian bombardment and shelling going on quite violently as we speak. And we do assess that the Russians are beginning to make more momentum on the ground towards Kyiv.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: General McCaffrey is with us. And we`re also joined by U.S. ambassador, former U.S. ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul. We can also note that he spoke with Ukrainian president Zelenskyy as recently as yesterday, Ambassador, your view of what we`re seeing in this phase of the Russian invasion.
MICHAEL MCFAUL, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: What I`m saying is war as hell, war is awful. And it just it I will talk analytically in a minute, I`ll collect myself to do that. But this is such a senseless war. It`s a meaningless war. None of those Ukrainian soldiers ever did anything to threaten Russia. None of those civilians who have been killed in Mariupol ever did anything to justify this horrendous war.
And I just think we need to keep reminding ourselves. None of this was necessary. This is a completely on Vladimir Putin. And it`s just tragic for me to watch knowing that I have hundreds of friends scattered throughout this country, including people that were born in Mariupol.
You know, to the point that Admiral Kirby was just talking about the war is now creeping closer and closer to the Capitol, where the President of Ukraine, Mr. Zelenskyy, President Zelenskyy is there.
I think I talked to him by chance I want to make clear Ari, I didn`t call him up. I have lots of friends that we were on a training program at Stanford for 20 years for Ukrainian activists, and politicians. And so I have a big deep network of people there and one of them works for Zelenskyy. I talked to him every day. And when I hit the Skype button to say hello to my friend, Sergei, that President Zelenskyy was there.
I had hosted him at Stanford last summer. So I know him. And you know, his message was, you know, this is it. They`re coming for our city. And we fought valiantly, and we want to keep fighting, and we need more help from the west to keep that fight going.
MELBER: And when you say this, is it that means they`re not leaving, as we`ve heard from others, we`ve broadcast it. They`re saying they will fight to the end and fight to the death if it comes to that?
MCFAUL: Well, obviously, I didn`t discuss that directly with him and many of the things we discussed, I`m not at liberty to talk about, but on that front and talking to many other members of his government in the bunker with him today. Well, for weeks, they live in a bunker. They live underneath the earth in pretty horrendous conditions. There`s no indication that I`ve ever heard that he ever plans to leave the Capitol.
MELBER: Understood. With that in mind, General McCaffrey and I understand the ambassador, giving us the parameters. There`s parts of this that is clear to share. And there`s some things that are not the same way that journalists have off the record and on the record. So the audience can understand that the ambassador`s only sharing part of that conversation.
With regard to what we have heard publicly. I just want to play briefly the Mayor of Kyiv, striking a similar note as Zelenskyy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VITALI KLITSCHKO, KYVI MAYOR: Target is capital of Ukraine, target is Kyiv. We ready to defend our city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Ready to defend the city. They know what they`re up against. So general, it seems like we`re not in the prediction business, but there are people over there with regard to the Ukrainian perspective who feel the worst is yet to come and the capital/
[18:10:04]
MCCAFFREY: They sure are some impressive leaders, you know, talk about maintaining your common thinking ability under fire. They`re very determined. It`s one of the most inspirational things I`ve seen in years.
Look, a couple million people probably still left in Kyiv, a bunch of them are older and vulnerable or children or mothers or disabled. They got to get out. I hope they get out before the city is encircled. They`re going to become a major factor objective of Russian care bombing artillery fire.
From the Ukrainian army`s viewpoint, if they have enough stockpile munitions, the advantage all goes to the defender. The Russians are going to have a tough nut to crack, trying to fight block by block. But I think the biggest concern I have is innocent civilian populations. The Russians are showing no mercy. They essentially are a class of war criminals. And it`s a tragedy to see this online.
MELBER: And just to echo the basic fundamental statement that you`re making, the targeting of civilian populations is a war crime. The targeting of non-combatants is a war crime. You`re bringing the military perspective as we look at some of the footage we have in the overhead shots as well. Your view general McCaffrey is the way that they are conducting the siege and approaching the Capitol is just going after civilians?
MCCAFFREY: Well, I think that they feel correctly that`s the center of gravity of the war. They can terrorize the civil population into either flight or hunkering down in their basements that at some point, they`ll force, President Zelenskyy or the Ukrainian Armed Forces to capitulate. I think they`ve done so badly in the ground tactical war that their objective has shifted from defeating the Ukrainian Armed Forces to wrecking the morale and spirit of the civil population. That`s what they`re up to.
And so we haven`t begun to see the worst of it yet, because most of these civilians won`t be able to get out. I mean, moving millions of people out of the urban areas is just too much of a heavy lift this point in the war.
MELBER: Ambassador, you hear the general`s break down, your reaction? And are there precedents in your view that apply to that type of military strategy? Are there precedents where what Putin is betting on whoever dissatisfied he may be with the pace is going after what is still a large country with a lot of people in it, in a manner that might lead to the government`s de facto capitulation to save lives?
MCFAUL: Well, these tactics remind me of the tactics that Putin used in Chechnya. Your viewers should go Google Grozny Chechnya in 2000, and see what they did to that the capital city of Chechnya. Also look at what they did with the Air Force in Aleppo in 2016. And it`s just very clear that Mr. Putin doesn`t care about lives. He doesn`t care about the lies of his own soldiers, either. Just let`s point that out from the way that they have mishandled this attack. It`s clear that he doesn`t care about them as well.
And it is criminal. I`m not a legal expert. I`ll let -- I`ll leave that for legal experts to talk about war crimes. But most certainly when you look at what`s happening in Mariupol, he is trying to terrorize innocent civilians to achieve the objective that General McCaffrey just spoke about to get to -- to get them to quit in the name of saving lives.
And I want to point out something that I think is really important for people to understand. Mariupol has 30 percent of their population identifies themselves as ethnic Russians. And even a majority of that city speaks Russian as their first language. Their nationality is all Ukrainian. But the ethnicity is Russian. And Putin is killing the very Russians that he claims that he is seeking to liberate.
That is an atrocity that in and of itself that it`s just shocking to me, and I hope people in Russia understand that that`s what their president is doing in this so called liberation war. He is killing Russians, innocent Russians invariable today.
MELBER: A very important point and nuance you raised there as for whether it is going to be understood in the propaganda environment in Russia. That overlaps with part of why we want to speak to you again later this hour. Ambassador McFaul who I know has agreed to stick around, we appreciate that. General McCaffrey who kicked us off, including looking at that new video footage. Thank you, sir. Appreciate both of you.
MCCAFFREY: Good to with you.
MELBER: Absolutely. I`m going to go right now to Lviv where NBC`s Cal Perry has been reporting for us from the western region there in Ukraine.
Cal, what are you seeing as this week draws to a close?
[18:15:08]
CAL PERRY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so we`ll just start Mariupol. I can update our viewers, you were just having this conversation. At least 1500 civilians now confirmed that that from the mayor, though we expect that number to be far higher. There was another attempt today to get civilians out of that city that attempt failed. It never even got to the point where the buses were able to get into the city because the shelling never stopped.
In Kharkiv to the north, we`re hearing from the mayor in that city, there were close to 90 strikes in just a 24 hour period of time. So, 90 airstrikes in just 24 hours, is forcing people there to remain in their homes. And again, we`re talking about a city where there are at least 100,000 people hunker down without electricity, without water, without power.
Forces pinching now in on Kyiv, where my colleague, Richard Engel is. They`re now on the outskirts about 10 miles from the center there, it doesn`t seem to be a frontline. And you showed that new video from RF ERL of that fighting, some just incredible video of the ground combat that`s spreading there.
And then just very quickly to update our viewers on the nuclear power plants around this country, we`ve just had an update from the Department of Energy here basically saying that there are 500 Russian troops now occupying the Zaporizhzhia power plant. This is the largest nuclear power plant in all of Europe. It now appears as though the Russian forces are using that as a base of operations that they`re actually now in that plant and using that as some kind of Forward Operating Base Zaporizhzhia.
Chernobyl the power is still off. It was supposed to be back on today. Ukrainian engineers never reached that site. They do say already that they will try again tomorrow. Obviously, all of this just sort of raising the fear here in the western part of the country.
MELBER: Cal Perry reporting live from Ukraine, stay safe. And thank you. Coming up tonight, we look at President Biden announcing new types of sanctions against Russia. We have returning to the program from the White House the Biden sanctions czar. We`re going to get into all of that.
Plus, Fox News has now begun to echo the Kremlin. Why? And later a special guests on how Ukrainians are getting ready for the next phase of this invasion. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:50]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Each of our nation is going to take steps to deny most favored nation status to Russia. The G7 will seek to deny Russia the ability to borrow from leading multilateral institutions, such as the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. Putin is an aggressor. He is the aggressor, and Putin must pay the price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: The President outlining these new economic penalties on Russia today. Congress is also considering here ending trade relations, normal trade relations with Russia. Biden urging G7 countries to deny Russia the ability to borrow any foreign money as you just heard, plus bans on the imports of Russian goods including diamonds, seafood, and vodka. It could all come together to deny Moscow at least a billion dollars in revenue. And that follows the bans on Russian oil imports earlier this week. Plus the international financial squeeze it`s hammering oligarchs aligned with Putin and some ordinary Russians.
The ruble has plummeted. Lines of ATMs have snaked down sidewalks, around buildings in Russia, which is a sign that people know something`s up over there. Stores shuttered as some international brands are also getting out of doing business in Russia. All of this may be part of the context of concern inside this country where protests are dangerous to those involved. But people are arguing some of them out in the streets at their own risk that they are against Putin`s war in Ukraine.
We have a very special guest on all of this live right now from the White House, Daleep Singh is Deputy National Security Adviser for International Economics, sometimes referred to as the de facto sanctions are of the Biden Administration. Thank you for joining us at this very busy time for you.
DALEEP SINGH, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: Good evening, Ari. I`m a little uncomfortable with being called czar in the current circumstances. But it`s nice to be with you.
MELBER: It`s a fair point about the lexicon. And thus, we did read your formal government title, sir. Let me start with the news. We heard from the President there. You`re the person operating and executing a lot of this. So what is the thrust of these new penalties? And is the long term goal to completely isolate Russia as an economy?
SINGH: Yes, you have it, Ari. Today, we continue to execute our strategy, and that is to methodically revoke the privileges that Russia has enjoyed as a full participant in the global economic order. We started by denying financial capital to Russia, then it was cutting edge technology, and it was currency transactions.
Earlier this week, as you mentioned, we cut oil flows to the US. And today, we focused on trade and financial support from the leading multinational financial institutions.
So look, we`re in the process of ejecting Russia from the global economic order. Russia is now on the fast track to its living standards in the 1980s. I don`t say any of that with pride or joy. This is among the many tragic consequences from Putin`s choices, and specifically his decision to violate the most basic principles of peace and security. His country is now looking down and economic abyss.
MELBER: You lay it out starkly and a lot of the data economically, internationally backs that up, of course, there is the home front and many Americans may look very skeptically at what Putin is doing, while also trying to manage their own lives during what has been a tough time. We all know why.
We`ve got headlines here that gas prices, which were already quite high, historically, have surged just 10 percent this week. What is the White House`s answer when Americans ask why gas prices are up?
SINGH: First thing we need to do is President Biden always says is tell the truth. Gas prices have risen the dollar a gallon since the start of the year. But that also coincides exactly with Putin has increased aggression on the border of Ukraine. This is Putin`s price hike. The fear of supply disruption is what`s driving global markets to push the price of oil and gas higher.
Now, what we`ve said consistently, as well as the alternative for not standing up to Putin and showing resolve would be far worse. The message it would send to autocrats all over the world, that they too could exert a sphere of influence, bully their neighbors us coercion launched a brutal invasion to coerce their neighbors and exert a sphere of influence that will be unacceptable to us.
[18:25:08]
So our strategy is do all we can, do all we can to boost global supplies. That means domestic production, it also means pushing the major oil producers of the world. They have three to 4 million barrels of spare capacity per day, they should use it. And that also means there`s, you know, one and a half billion in strategic oil reserves by major consuming countries, they too should release these supplies. If not, now when would they do it? And so this is the moment.
MELBER: Yes, so it sounds like your answer there is these are Putin price hikes in the White House`s view, but you`re also on it, trying to deal with it. Which makes sense.
When we last spoke, in the beginning of this -- very beginning of the invasion, we also talked about how oil fits into the strategy. Here`s some of what you said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SINGH: The point that we`ve made is that it`s not in Russia`s interest to weaponize its energy supply. But if he does, we`re prepared. We`re talking to large oil producers across the world to make sure that prices in the U.S. at the pump don`t increase as a result of Putin`s aggression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELMBER: So part of that matches what you were just saying tonight, what you`re doing to defray the costs. The other part was your criticism on behalf of the White House if Putin tried to leverage gas in this conflict. But now, isn`t it the United States that trying to leverage domestic gas demand in this conflict.
SINGH: Yes, it`s still a big mistake of Putin tries to weaponize his energy supply to the world, its oil and gas still represents half of his export revenues, about 40 percent of his federal budget revenues.
But, you know, we`re taking action to try to contain the price increases that are now evident at the gas pump. And we know they`re hitting lower income households more than any other segment of American society.
I think what this episode also speaks to our is we have to speed our transition to cleaner, more sustainable, more reliable sources of energy. Let`s face it, the price of oil is always going to be controlled by a cartel, that dictates the supply for half of a global supply.
And as long as we`re dependent on a cartel that controls the price of a commodity, we`re going to have episodes like this. So it just underscores the need to find a more sustainable source of energy and cleaner source for our people.
MELBER: It`s very interesting to hear you draw that link. And that certainly goes to the policies challenges here, as people see what these costs are. I just want to push you before I lose you, though, on the point there, because what you`d hear from the Russia side is, well, if the U.S. can leverage its gas demand for its foreign policy objectives, why is it so wrong when Russia does the same? I just want to give you the benefit of respond to that?
SINGH: Well, look, we have an asymmetric advantage with respect to Russia. Russian oil imports into the U.S. are a relatively small share of the total under 10 percent. Whereas Russia has an urgent need to sell its oil and gas. It`s the last industry left that has relevance in the global economy. And that can generate revenues for it. So we`re not going to spare any sector of Putin`s economy. We`re going to hit him where it hurts most.
MELBER: Understood, and really good to get you on more than one issue at a very busy time. Daleep Singh, thank you for coming back on THE BEAT, sir.
SINGH: Thanks, Ari.
MELBER: Absolutely. Meanwhile, the U.S. is accusing Russia of pushing disinformation about bioweapons, which is important, and yet also getting an eering (ph) and an echo on Fox News. We have a fact check with Ambassador McFaul who knows this better than anyone. We`re back in just one minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Turn into another important facet of this war, the information war and what U.S. officials derived as Kremlin disinformation, which matters in the global stage. It matters over in the European theater but it also matters right here at home because some of it is being echoed on Fox News.
Russia called the UN Security Council meeting today to renew its allegations it says the U.S. might be somehow funding bioweapons in Ukraine.
Here`s what you need to know outside experts.