Summary
The FBI executed a search warrant on former Pres. Trump`s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida while he was in New York City. A source familiar with the matter says the search is connected to the National Archives. Plus, what we`re hearing from Trump supporters about all of it online.
Transcript
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC ANCHOR: The major breaking news tonight involving the shocking escalation and one of the several investigations surrounding former President Trump. All of this happened today, on the 48th anniversary of Richard Nixon announcing his resignation.
The FBI has just searched Mar a Lago, Donald Trump`s home in Palm Beach, Florida, a senior U.S. official telling NBC News, the FBI was there for quote, the majority of the day, Trump himself was not there. He was in New York City. But Trump did break the news himself in a statement complaining that his home had been quote, occupied by a large group of FBI agents. He called the search not necessary.
NBC News has learned that the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago is a National Archives related search and several boxes of documents were seized by agents today. Trump lawyer Christina Bobb tells NBC that she was there for the search and that paper was seized.
The Archives had asked the Justice Department to examine Trump`s handling of records that he took out of the White House and down to Mar-a-Lago after he left office. NBC News has also learned the FBI notified the Secret Service earlier today about the intention to execute that search warrant.
With that, we have got a lot to get to and let`s bring in our leadoff panel tonight. Mark Caputo, senior national political reporter for NBC News, Andrew Weissmann, former FBI general counsel and former senior member of the Mueller probe. Now he`s a law professor at NYU. Frank Figliuzzi, former FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence, and Barbara McQuade, a veteran federal prosecutor and former U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan. She worked with the Department of Justice during the Biden transition as a professor at University of Michigan`s School of Law.
First, I want to thank all four of you. I know you are working around the clock. Mark, you are our reporter on the ground in Florida, walk us through exactly what went down today. Well,
MARK CAPUTO, NBC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: We have limited amounts of information. The FBI doesn`t like to share this stuff and Trump`s team and Trump`s lawyer is not sharing a copy of the search warrant that was seized. So we don`t know exactly what they were looking for.
But as you said in the intro, there were a number of FBI agents who were there for more than a few hours. They apparently had shown up in plain clothes at first. So it didn`t instantly trigger people looking around saying oh my god, the FBI is here raiding the place.
In the process of doing this, they collect these various documents that apparently sprung from the National Archives matter. Some of the documents might have been classified. Trump`s team, Trump`s lawyer, Trump`s son, they`re raising the issue of hey, we were cooperating with the National Archives. Why did they do this? This is a serious overreach.
And you`re seeing the Republican Party really rally behind him from the bottom to the top. And they`re calling for, you know, serious investigations at the DOJ. This is going to be quite a political storm, the likes of which we`ve never seen before in this country.
RUHLE: A political storm. Walk us through this, Andrew, because this has never happened in U.S. history. What does it all mean? What`s your number one reaction?
ANDREW WEISSMANN, FORMER FBI GENERAL COUNSEL: My number one reaction is the fact that Merrick Garland thought that there was enough here that he wants to proceed by a search warrant. I think it`s important for people to understand that there are a number of ways in which the government can obtain documents from someone, it can be voluntary, you can just ask them and they can be turned over. You can issue a subpoena, in which case the person receives that piece of paper and they`re required to collect documents and turn them over to you.
But that requires trusting that the person will actually comply with the subpoena. But very often you do that in large corporate cases, you very often issue a subpoena. Here, that`s not how the government chose to proceed, and you proceed by search warrant, largely when you do not trust that the person will turn the documents over pursuant to a subpoena.
So my large reaction to this was that Merrick Garland has to have the information in front of him that led him to believe that this had to be done pursuant to a search warrant, because the subpoena would not be complied with by the former president. And that`s something worth just taking stock of that the Attorney General of the United States did not think that a subpoena would work that the President -- the former president would not comply with it and thus had to proceed by way of search warrant to get the information he was entitled to.
And the final thing, which is sort of obvious, but with the President, the former president talking about a raid and a break in, that`s not what happened. This is something that a court approved. This is the way our justice system works.
Kevin McCarthy may not like it when he talks about this being outrageous, but this is the way our justice system works.
[23:05:02]
You go to court, you provide evidence to a judge and a neutral and detached judge makes a decision whether you`ve met the legal standard or not. And here that means not just the attorney general, but that a judge determined that there was probable cause that a crime had been committed, and that evidence of that crime would be at Mar-a-Lago.
RUHLE: But does that mean Frank that the Justice Department has specific interest in specific documents? They know what Trump has? Or what could be down in Mar-a-Lago? Or could be just general, a bunch of documents aren`t here, we`d like to see what they are, is their actual content that they`re looking for?
FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FMR. FBI ASST. DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE: Great question, let`s pull on that thread that Andrew has set out there for us, which is you`ve got to show not only that there`s evidence of a crime, but the evidence of the crime is going to be at the location you wish to search. And then the magistrate or judge is going to ask a ton of questions to those agents and even the prosecutor and say, What makes you think there`s still stuff here? Wasn`t this result? Didn`t you take like 15 boxes? Is that not over with?
And so it`s likely that they were able to demonstrate that, yes, no, there`s a crime going on here, a crime occurred, a crime may still be occurring. We`re not negotiating anymore. It`s still a problem. And that I think is where this is going is that something`s not right, with the talking and the negotiating.
And, of course, the President issued a statement, former president said, I`ve been cooperating with the pertinent agencies. Well, they seem to have a different end of that story. And so does the judge who signed off on this.
So with regard to specificity, yes, it`s likely like we can`t see this search warrant yet. But it`s likely it says something like to include classified documents, so White House marked documents, Top Secret classified documents, and it might be even more specific, if they believe there`s a subset of documents that still hasn`t been turned over. That would be intriguing if there`s -- he`s hanging on to just a subset of documents and for what reason.
RUHLE: Frank, I want you to pull on another thread that Andrew started for us. This was not a raid. We should not think of this as the FBI in the middle of the night banging down the door. Was someone answering in their boxer shorts, explain to us what today would have looked like because it`s definitely being mischaracterized by a lot of folks out there.
FIGLIUZZI: Well, it is even as we speak, and far right platforms are just in a frenzy over this and even the former president use the term unannounced. Well, let me explain something. Never in my 25-year FBI career did we call a subject and say, you know, is it OK with you if we stopped by about 8:00 a.m. for coffee? Is that going to be convenient for you? Because we`ve got a search warrant. We`re going to lay on you because we think you`re hiding stuff.
That doesn`t work that way. What we`re hearing through NBC News reporting is that just before the search warrant execution, the FBI called the Secret Service gave them a heads up, say we`re going to be coming on there with a court ordered search warrant, we`re going to be armed, we would ask you to help out, just point us toward the direction but just know where there.
Secondly, we hear it from NBC news that there`s plainclothes agents who show up so they`re not trying to make a spectacle of it. With regard to breaking into a safe, yes, don`t know a force was used or not. There are various techniques and tools that the FBI has available to them. But yes, sorry, if that`s offensive to the former president. But if a document being lawfully searched for is in the safe, then that works. That`s how that that`s how that goes.
So again, with regard to multiple agents, you`re going to hear a lot about that I`m sure in the days to come why so many agents, and I don`t know how many agents were there. But I know this, you can use two agents and be there for a week searching this massive compound for documents. Or you could bring more agents and get it done in a few hours, that is usual the preference.
RUHLE: Let`s just say I committed some awful crimes, and the evidence of it was on documents in my home, wouldn`t I destroy them? What`s to say that Trump hasn`t? We know from months ago when we heard people setting documents on fire tearing them up? Remember, Michael Cohen had reported Trump once ate a note? Why did we think that there is something that`s going to be so bad that he actually kept for this many months?
BARBARA MCQUADE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Yes, and you know, that alone, Stephanie would be even a different crime. And so the absence of the documents could itself be somewhat informative here, but we don`t know what was in that affidavit that remains under seal and an affidavit that accompanies a search warrant is the document that builds the case of probable cause and demonstrates to a judge that there is probable cause to believe that the specific items search for will be found on those premises.
So we don`t know the backstory, but we know that 15 boxes of documents were returned to the National Archives, perhaps they did an inventory of those documents and found that certain documents were missing.
[23:10:05]
Why would those documents be missing? We don`t know. But there`s some real damage that can occur if those documents are missing. One, they may have been destroyed. But also they could fall into the wrong hands. And it doesn`t even necessarily need to be, you know, some foreign spy or international intrigue.
But if it just gets out there, it`s sometimes referred to as a spill of classified information can be very dangerous to the national security.
The main thing that we seek to protect in our classified documents are sources of information and the methods we use to collect information. And if either of those things is compromised, it could risk the lives of people who work as sources for the United States government. So every day that those documents are unaccounted for is a day that the national security is at grave risk.
And so there`s an urgency that comes along with seeking these documents. And so it appears to be that the time for talking about this was over and Merrick Garland had had enough and said, we`re just going in getting these documents if they`re still there.
RUHLE: And let`s talk consequences, Andrew, because it could cost Donald Trump the ability to run for office again. I want to share what former prosecutor Harry Litman said about this earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRY LITMAN, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: This is by far not the one of the biggest crimes he`s been charged with, but it carries the penalty, that someone who`s convicted of it is disqualified from running for future federal office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Andrew, I want to obviously first note, Donald Trump has not been charged with any crimes. But explain what herring means. Could Trump get disqualified here?
WEISSMANN: So, I do think it`s important for everyone to take a deep breath because there has not been a charge here. And there can be a search and there can never be a criminal case. And there could not be a criminal case for the charge that Harry was talking about.
But there is a charge that everyone is sort of now on Twitter talking about which does deal with the removal of classified information by a custodian. It is a crime that requires the defendant to have acted willfully meaning knowing they violated the law.
One of the penalties if you are charged and convicted of that crime is that you do not hold office anymore. We are a long way from that charge being brought, and that penalty being sought. So I do think I would stress a lot of caution.
But then, Stephanie, quickly going back to your question about why there would potentially be documents there, I have two answers to you. One, the court had to be satisfied that there was probable cause that those documents would exist now in the search. So that question had to have been asked and satisfied to the judge that there was a reason that they believe those documents would be there.
And very often in my experience, and I`m sure this is true for Barb and for Frank as well. You know, defendants are not have a lot of hubris. And you know, just take Paul Manafort, for instance, you know, many years after the crimes are committed, we did a search of his home, and we found tons of documents that were incriminating that he had not gotten rid of.
So, you know, defendants don`t always act in a way that is in their best interest in terms of cleaning up the crime scene.
RUHLE: Mark tonight following this FBI search former President Trump is fundraising off of it. Conservative media are pushing, defund the FBI defund these government agencies. Does the MAGA crowd, does that conservative audience even know as we hear them attack the FBI that the FBI director Christopher Wray was nominated by Donald Trump himself.
CAPUTO: I can`t say what the MAGA crowd fully believes or what they don`t believe. But to the earlier point here, the ability are for folks to say, oh, Donald Trump could get disqualified. He plans to run for president. He`s all but confirmed he will. The question is, is when he`s going to make the announcement.
And there`s been more than 200 office seekers Republicans who sought his endorsement. He`s the undisputed leader of the Republican Party. It`s hard for me to see, and I`ll be it. I don`t see all of the evidence right now. That`s a very important caveat.
The idea that the federal government is going to charge a former president with this crime so quickly, as he announces he`s running for president. I said earlier, this is going to be a storm the likes of which we haven`t seen, that would be a hurricane stacked on top of it.
Again, it`s difficult to see. I don`t have all of the facts. But the reaction you`re seeing from the MAGA crowd, from the entire Republican establishment, the Republican National Committee chairwoman of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, whom a lot of folks like to say, oh, maybe he`ll run against Trump. But Florida Governor Rick Scott the head of the National Republican Senatorial Committee.
[23:15:00]
All of them are united, these leaders of the Republican Party in criticizing the DOJ, in going after them. There`s a good chance that Republicans are going to win the house. It`s just difficult to see all of these factors putting together and (INAUDIBLE) charge.
RUHLE: Hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. And you actually believe that`s for real. You believe that Ron DeSantis in the bot -- from the bottom of his heart is behind Donald Trump 100 percent. We both know that he has an entire shadow mafia, working to figure out if you`ve run for president, give me a break.
CAPUTO: Well, a lot of those shadows mafia --
RUHLE: Of course, he didn`t send out that tweet, but do you think he means it?
CAPUTO: Well, what he means and what he does right now are going to be consubstantial. That is Ron DeSantis. is acting in accordance with the way the rest of the Republican establishment is acting. Now, yes, maybe if Donald Trump gets charged and convicted somehow in record time, that would change.
But judging by all of the factors, I see the calendar of how elections work, the fact that it`s difficult to charge major political figures on the fly, and the geography of the way in which primaries work in presidential races.
It`s just a difficult thing for me to swallow this idea that he`s going to be charged so quickly, and that oh, he`s not going to be able to run for office. Donald Trump`s gong to announce he`s running for office. He`s basically said it. The question is just going to be when.
RUHLE: I don`t know, I didn`t see John Cornyn, Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham going after the Department of Justice. But I did see Kevin McCarthy doing so. Attorney General Garland, preserve your documents and clear your calendar. Andrew, clearly, some members of the Republican Party are trying to go after Garland threatened him. He knew going into this how closely he would be scrutinized. Is it safe to say this entire operation will be by the book?
WEISSMANN: Yes, I mean, look this I`ve I was working for Robert Mueller when the same thing happens. This is right out of Donald Trump`s playbook, which is to attack anybody who`s threatening his power, whether it`s the press here, it`s the department. But Merrick Garland is seasoned and has a strong backbone. He`s going to do this entirely by the book.
RUHLE: And we are watching. Thank you all Mark Caputo, Andrew Weissmann, I appreciate you staying up late with us tonight. Frank and Barb, do not go anywhere. We`ve got more to cover with you.
When we come back more on the search at Mar-a-Lago from two people who have inside knowledge of the former president, and how he`s likely taking the news tonight.
And later, Democrats on the verge of a huge win in Congress. We`ll break down what is in the sweeping health care, climate and tax bill. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on a big news Monday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:17:27]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Trump, can we get your reaction to the raid? Mr. Trump, can we get your reaction to the raid, sir?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: The former President left Trump Tower just before 8:00 p.m. this evening with no comment. But in his statement earlier he described today`s FBI search as quote, an assault that could only happen in third world countries. Fact check. It was a legally obtained search warrant. There was not any assault.
Let`s bring in our guests Phil Rucker, Pulitzer Prize winning deputy national editor at the Washington Post. He`s written two books deep inside Donald Trump`s head. And Tim O`Brien, Bloomberg opinion senior columnist. He has seen Trump`s tax returns and written a book on his businesses, Frank Figliuzzi and Barbara McQuade still with us.
Phil, take us inside Donald Trump`s head. You actually wrote the book, very stable genius how he describes himself. This is a man who values his privacy and controlling the narrative around him. How do you think he`s taking this news today?
PHIL RUCKER, THE WASHINGTON POST DEPUTY NATIONAL EDITOR: You know, obviously, he`s not taking it well, Steph, because we saw that statement that he issued very quickly after the raid today. But he appears to be calculating that this could be a politically winning issue for himself and for the Republican Party. We`ve seen in just the last number of hours, Republican leaders and potential presidential candidates on the Republican side come out to echo his points. He is claiming without evidence, of course, that this is some sort of political sabotage by the Justice Department to impair his chances of running for president in 2024.
We know there`s no evidence to support that theory that this is obviously according to reporting by my colleagues at The Post and other news organizations, this is connected to the investigation into his misuse of classified documents.
Nevertheless, he`s trying to politicize this as a way to galvanize his supporters against it. And in the absence of clear information from the Justice Department about what exactly they`re investigating and what they`ve obtained down there. It could work politically with some people because there`s an opportunity Trump has to take control of this narrative.
RUHLE: Some people underscore some people, that`s his go to move to, Tim. Any news that comes out good, bad or otherwise, Trump`s response is fundraise off of it. Has he lost any steam it with that fundraising machine because an awful lot of Republicans who voted for him not once but twice are saying, publicly and privately, please, any other Republican. This news can`t be good for them?
[23:25:10]
TIM O`BRIEN, BLOOMBERG OPINION SENIOR COLUMNIST: Well, I mean, there is already evidence that that money has started to move away from him, but I think it`s too early in the cycle to know if that`s going to have traction. I think the whole -- I think the whole reason behind Trump getting into this verbiage about this is what happens in a third world country is to distract from the material reality of what is happening, which is that a well-engineered federal law enforcement investigation is as arrived at his doorstep and rather obviously then taken on directly he wasn`t even at Mar- a-Lago today.
He`s stirring up MAGA land in his defense, and he`s found ready and willing propagandists around him to pick up his talking points. Fox, all over their newscast tonight refer to this as third world BS, quote unquote. And all of that is a distraction. Because I don`t think this is the most serious legal problem Trump is going to face. I think a grand jury has been convened to look into some of the specifics around a coup, he and his supporters, tried to engineer, a fake board, fake electors, pressure on my pants, at cetera, et cetera.
And I think this really comes down to at this point. Now, whether or not he committed crimes, but whether or not Merrick Garland is willing to have the steel to put this in front of a jury. And that`s a question of atmospherics, not of the legal issues at hand. There are obviously reasons people are going to come up with to say that there`s -- this is a politically fraught moment. It could fray the Constitution, it could fray democracy, but the price of law enforcement not taking any action, I think is far more severe to both American democracy and American justice.
So everything that`s in this note tonight is classic Trump trying to deflect and trying to stir up people by being the pied piper of MAGA land. But I think at the end of the day, if Merrick Garland doesn`t take action, we`re going to be in a very bad place.
RUHLE: MAGA land a smaller place than it used to be. Barb, give us a history lesson because we keep hearing today, these comparisons between what happened with Watergate. When it was Richard Nixon, when news broke, people knew it could be only one thing, he was only involved in one scandal. When the news broke today, it was hours before we even knew what they were specifically looking for in a number of investigations that Trump is involved with.
MCQUADE: Yes, in fact, Trump himself compared this to the Watergate break and said that this was, you know, equivalent to that. Of course, there`s a very real difference here between what happened today and the Watergate break in which is today the search was authorized by a federal judge who executed a warrant. Whereas in the Watergate break in that was done by burglars in the middle of the night. So two very different kinds of things going on here.
And as you point out, it almost seems quaint that what Richard Nixon does, you know, did spying on his political rivals and then concealing it really almost seems quaint and harmless in comparison to all of the misconduct that Donald Trump has been involved with.
And I think that his statement today really says a lot about how he sees himself in the world, and how he wants others to see him, which is the idea that this is somehow third world never before has a president had his home searched. He`s suggesting that he is somehow above the law. It`s never before. Does that mean it should never happen? It should only happen if a president is the subject of a search based on probable cause as found by a judge. And so I think his suggestion is offensive to the rule of law.
RUHLE: Today, the FBI notified the Secret Service before they arrived at Mar-a-Lago, where they spent the majority of the day. We are truly in unchartered territory here, Frank. Where do we go from here? What are you watching for?
FIGLIUZZI: Well, first of all, let me address this third world nation thing that Trump keeps bringing up because of just what you said, Stephanie, which is today law enforcement work like it should. The FBI gave a phone call a heads up to the Secret Service. We`ve got a judge who signed a search warrant. You need to understand we`re coming on the property, and we`re executing a lawful search warrant and the Secret Service did the right thing.
So, in third world nations, the king`s guards would have prevented that from happening and there may have even been fatalities in a third world nation.
[23:30:03]
In the third world nation a corrupt judge would never have signed a search warrant against the king or former king. So, again, you know, what`s in front of us here? Look, there`s going to be tough times. The polarization is going to get worse. The drumbeat has already started on the far right. And Trump has become adept, particularly during the Mueller inquiry at exploiting that gap, Stephanie, between the things he wants to rant about and make up. And what DOJ can lawfully say and respond to, there`s quite a gap there.
And he`s going to ride in the middle of that gap now, for months and months, because he knows DOJ can`t give us all the details. They can`t say here`s the probable cause we had to know there`s documents in there, to know there`s a national security risk there, to know that he`s lying to us when he says I gave you everything I got. We`re never going to see that or not for the foreseeable future. And he`s going to exploit that and it`s going to get rough for the FBI. It already has.
CPAC last weekend before this even happened. Congressman from Arizona, let`s defund the DOJ, let`s defund the FBI, that drumbeats going to grow louder and louder. It`s going to get rough. But the rule of law is going to prevail, because it has to.
RUHLE: A crooked judge and the king`s guards not letting them in. Sounds like the former president may have preferred running a third world country but not the United States of America. We`re following the laws. Phil Rucker, Tim O`Brien, Frank Figliuzzi, Barb McQuaid, thank you all so, so much.
When we come back a chilling warning from our friend star reporter Ben Collins. The posts on pro Trump forums tonight, like the even more violent than before January 6, when THE 11TH HOUR continues. Stick around. This is important.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:36:29]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to absolutely enrage the country, especially the Republican base, a base that is clearly behind the ex- president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: The news of the FBI searching Donald Trump`s Mar-a-Lago home sent MAGA world into a complete frenzy. As soon as the news broke, there were enraged post threatening to take up arms with supporters wanting to make their enemies quote, cry out in pain.
So let`s discuss with the man who knows who has to monitor all of this for us. And for that we are grateful NBC News Senior Reporter Ben Collins, he covers disinformation and extremism on the internet. Ben, describe what you are seeing online.
BEN COLLINS, NBC NEWS SENIOR REPORTER: This is the worst I`ve seen it since January 5, probably of 2021. These are people emboldened who are ready for the Civil War. That`s why they`re talking right now. They`re talking about flipping over their flags to show that the nation is in distress. They`re talking about buying more ammo and buying more guns. And you`re talking about how the type of organizing is passed and that they have to start going into action.
That post that you just saw, the top post on the Donald which is where a lot of these people planned for January 6, they posted maps of the tunnels underneath the Capitol, they posted their stashes of weapons at hotels in Virginia. That post right there, Donald says lock and load. That`s the top post that you see in reference to the news tonight that Donald Trump`s Mar- a-Lago has impact inside the two FBI raid.
RUHLE: The words lock and load. Well, Ben, it was before January 6, it was the night before you and your reporting partner Brandy said this is going to be a violent attack tomorrow. You rang the bell. You sounded the alarm. Are you right now feeling like we are going to see a repeat event of something similar in terms of the violence?
COLLINS: I would say the only good news here is that there is no organizing principle here. They have tried to get people to go to Mar-a-Lago tonight that it`s too quick for a lot of these people on this forum, in a lot of these people in these telegrams, but they are planning for something in the future and they are just very, very upset.
The difference is they had a -- they had a tip of the spear with Donald Trump back in the day. They had a guy who would spout directions and say to be at a specific place to channel all that anger. That`s how they ended up on January 6 is Donald Trump told them to be at a specific place on January 6, and they said that was the last day that could take action.
There is no tip of the spear right now. It probably still is Donald Trump, but you have to find him through truth social or something or, you know, you have to find him through a press release now not through Twitter giving step by step instructions.
The only solace here is that there is no big brand date for this stuff just yet, but the anger and the vitriol and the idea that this is a last straw that the Civil War is basically upon us. That is the thing that`s permeating in these pro Trump forums tonight.
RUHLE: But has any of that movement weekend, whether it`s all of those January 6 or many of those January 6 rioters getting arrested, getting convicted, Donald Trump not pardoning any of them. The January 6 hearing more and more Trump officials whose former Attorney General saying it was all a big lie none of that is getting through to this MAGAverse?
[23:40:05]
COLLINS: No, it`s not getting through. There was a moment after January 6 for these forums are a little bit more coy with how they talked about stuff, they realized that they were being watched by the feds. And they started talking a little bit more abstractly about either the apocalypse or whatever they thought was coming, or, you know, or whatever civil war they thought was coming on.
That moment has come and gone. They are back to overtly calling for assassinations and deaths of their political enemies. And it`s gotten more specific than eight. Frankly, I just want to make that very clear. These people have had enough. They are completely -- they`ve made the next step. They`ve made the leap. They always say in their space, crossed the Rubicon. They`ve said that Donald Trump is a reference to Julius Caesar to, you know, basically to take over the country by force. Tonight, they`ve been talking about crossing the Rubicon of loss. It`s a different vibe today..
RUHLE: Then what do you think law enforcement is looking out for next? What are you looking out for next?
COLLINS: It`s the same groups and the same people. I, you know, I thought some of these groups would be quieter. I thought the (INAUDIBLE) the Proud Boys thought they`d be quieter. I would say the Oath Keepers probably are a little bit quieter, properties are louder than ever.
And those groups, those militias believe they`re fighting for a bigger cause. They use January 6 as a recruitment tool. I will say the GOP, the Republican Party had a chance to stop this, step in and cut this stuff out in the months after January 6. That did not happen.
As you saw at CPAC this weekend with the man crying in the jail cell, but if you put on headphones to listen to January 6 rioters complaining about their conditions in prison, they view themselves as martyrs to a cause. They view themselves as part of a war that is ongoing and that they are about to start fighting physically in person.
This is a very serious thing that we have to start facing head on, as people are not joking around. They are serious about a civil war. They`ve been planning for it for a while now. And while it was pretty fringe before social media took off, it has taken over a large portion of the GOP right now. And you can hear people dog whistling on Fox News tonight too.
RUHLE: But it doesn`t have to take over the GOP on any given day. The GOP can take action to stop this. And when you talk about the fringe, Ben, I think about the guy at CPAC and acting being in a prison with a lawmaker kneeling before him. And it was Marjorie Taylor Greene who is allowed mouthpiece, but she does absolutely nothing legislatively. She had all of her committee assignments stripped a year ago and has done nothing but talk, talk, talk.
Ben Collins, thank you so much for your really important reporting. We appreciate you doing it.
COLLINS: Thanks, Steph.
RUHLE: So we`re still monitoring Mar-a-Lago, and tomorrow. Tomorrow, the New York Times reports that Doug Mastriano and Mike Pompeo will be meeting with the January 6 committee. So there`s a lot going on.
But next, the other big news, the history making vote after the Senate working weekend on THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:48:03]
RUHLE: Well, we keep an eye on Mar-a-Lago. There is other news we`re following tonight. Democrats celebrating after the Senate passed a multibillion dollar deal. The blockbuster Inflation Reduction Act moves to the House this week where it is expected to pass and be sent to the President`s desk. It is a huge win for the Democratic Party and the president.
And it includes several key items, including the largest climate investment in U.S. history, lower drug costs for seniors and a 15 percent minimum tax on corporations with a billion bucks plus in income.
With us tonight to discuss, Jeff Stein, White House Economics Reporter for the Washington Post. And Victoria DeFrancesco Soto, MSNBC political analyst and Dean of the Clinton School of Public Service at the University of Arkansas.
Jeff, talked to us about the significance of this bill, and how Senate Democrats got this thing over the finish line.
JEFF STEIN, THE WASHINGTON POST WHITE HOUSE ECONOMICS REPORTER: Yes, to tell the story of this bill, you have to go back over a year when President Biden first unveiled over $4 trillion of domestic spending, tax hikes, the climate investments who are referring to and for months and months and months, it looks like those plans really a transformative agenda along the lines of what FDR and LBJ did really a watershed moments in this country that we could be on the verge of something like that.
And the finished product that finally got across the finish line in the Senate just a few days ago. It`s not that. It`s not a transformative bill that will fundamentally reshape the safety net in the American economy. But it still is a really, really significant accomplishment, huge changes to climate and energy policy, to tax policy, to healthcare policy, the reverberations of which we`ll be seeing for a very long time, especially, you know, after months and months in which it looks like this may not even pass at all.
RUHLE: Vicki, how do Democrats gain off this momentum? How do they message?
[23:50:02]
Republicans didn`t just not vote for it. They heard it over the weekend fighting to remove the cap on the cost of insulin.
VICTORIA DEFRANCESCO SOTO, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: So I think the key here is connecting the dots for voters, not because voters are stupid, but because voters have a lot going on in their life, you know, they`re taking kids to school, they`re going to work. So they have a lot of flutter. And they need to understand how does this affect me? How does the fact that there`s going to be a cap on drug prices make my life better? So that is something that the Democrats have to do. They have to break open this large piece of legislation because people are going to hear, OK, Inflation Reduction Act, that sounds good, but it`s not going to move people. So that work has to be done.
The other reason Stephanie is there`s a lag. So this is a huge bill, huge win for Democrats. But look, when it comes to climate, we`re not really going to see the effects of this investment for a long time. When it comes to the drug, perhaps it`s not going into effect into 2026. So a lot of work has to be done into how does this make my life better. And then within that, you can throw in the -- there wasn`t support from the other folks who say there for you to pay attention to us at the end of the day.
RUHLE: Jeff, I have to ask you about who`s really going to love this bill, and why it makes absolutely no sense. The private equity industry. Last week, we talked all about them closing the carried interest loophole, Kyrsten Sinema would not let that happen. They kept that provision. But they got an even bigger loophole over the weekend, where the private equity industry, those that are public, those companies are not going to have to participate in the new corporate minimum tax. Can you cheek about this? Because it`s mind blowing, it`s robbery.
STEIN: As you said, the bill includes a 15 percent minimum tax on all corporations with over a billion dollars a year in profit. And to make that work, Democrats had to include a provision as part of that to make sure that that also applied to private equity because there are some private equity firms that have over a billion dollars a year in revenue and profit.
Senator Sinema and industry groups looked at that provision, and they argued that that would actually hit smaller subsidiaries, you know, the companies that are owned by the private equity investors. A lot of the Democrats I talked to think that this is total rubbish, and that what Sinema is actually doing is sparing the biggest firms the Apollo`s, the Carlisle`s, the biggest private equity Titans with some cases tens of billions of dollars in annual profit from the impact and the implementation of this tax.
We`ve heard from the Joint Committee on Taxation Congress`s official scorekeeper that this policy will cut $35 billion off of Democrats new revenue. So that`s $35 billion that the private equity industry is reaping really pretty remarkably due to the actions of one individual senator.
There`s been a lot of scrutiny and there will be more about Sinema`s ties to private equity groups. And we`re going to have to see what her post Senate career looks like. But to your point, lots of nonpartisan tax experts are shocked that this came out at the last minute.
RUHLE: There are executives at some of those companies that get paid hundreds of millions of dollars. It`s really, really stunning. I can`t believe it happened. Jeff Stein, Victoria DeFrancesco Soto, thank you both for joining us. I appreciate it.
When we come back. She helped a generation get physical and took us to Xanadu, and with her, Greece was the word. We`ll remember the legendary Olivia Newton-John, when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:58:13]
RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, remembering an icon, actress and singer Olivia Newton-John passed away at 73 years of age. After a three decade long fight with cancer, the British-Australian artists was probably best known for her role opposite John Travolta as Sandy in Grease.
But who could forget Physical, the number one song of 1982 with a leotard leg warmers and sweatband, Newton-John`s music video helped to find a decade. Her music career earned her four Grammys, including two for I Honestly Love You.
But 30 years ago Olivia Newton-John was diagnosed with breast cancer. And in the years that followed, she used her immense star power to campaign for cancer research through the Olivia Newton-John Foundation fund. And even when facing a third cancer diagnosis, she managed to stay positive. Listen to what she told the TODAY Show back in 2019.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVIA NEWTON-JOHN, ACTRESS AND SINGER: I think you know what you think creates your reality. So as a decision you have to make that decision. You know you can be a victim or you can be a winner and enjoy your life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: The example she set has touched many. As her Grease costar wrote in his goodbye on Instagram. My dearest Olivia, you made all of us our lives so much better. Your impact was incredible. He continues, I love you so much. We will see you down the road and we will all be together again. Yours from the first moment I saw you and forever. Your Danny, you`re John.
[00:00:03]
One of a generation or more of Olivia Newton-John super fans forever, Hopelessly Devoted to her.
And on that very sad, but very beautiful note, I wish you all a very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, thanks for staying up late with us. I will see you at the end tomorrow.