Summary
A spike in violent threats has the FBI and Department of Homeland Security issuing an unusual warning following the Mar-a-Lago search. And the DOJ argues against revealing the search warrant affidavit. Plus, Rudy Giuliani is now a target in Georgia`s Big Lie investigation.
Transcript
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Without fear or favor, under my watch, that is precisely what the Justice Department is doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC ANCHOR: The 86th Attorney General of the United States Merrick Garland gets tonight`s "LAST WORD". THE 11TH HOUR with Stephanie Ruhle starts now.
[23:00:20]
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight, federal law enforcement under a warning like never before. The FBI warns of violence from political supporters of the former president. Incidents are already under investigation after the search at Mar-a-Lago. And we are learning more about what the DOJ was looking for what they found, and the ever changing story of why the former president had those documents.
Then, Rudy Giuliani now the target of a criminal investigation into the big lie in Georgia. How much trouble is he in? And what could it mean for the former president. Plus, the Texas governor`s political ploy to try to punish blue states over immigration policies. The problem is, this isn`t politics for the thousands of desperate migrants. The human cost of political games has THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Monday night.
Good evening. Once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle. And we begin this evening with the dramatic spike in violent threats against FBI agents. Threat so concerning that President Biden is now being briefed on the danger. The bureau has been under attack from former President Trump himself and his allies ever since that search at his home Mar-a-Lago just one week ago. The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security have issued an official Joint Intelligence bulletin, warning of a rise in threats to federal law enforcement officials.
That extraordinary warning about the potential for attacks targeting law enforcement presumably carried out by supporters of the former president. And just today, a Pennsylvania man was arrested for threatening to kill FBI agents, threats he posted on his social media website. You`ll recall it was just four days ago, an armed man fired a nail gun into a Cincinnati FBI office. He was later killed during a standoff with police.
At the same time Attorney General Merrick Garland may soon have to decide whether to pursue charges against Donald Trump or his allies over the handling of those very classified records that were seized down at Mar-a- Lago.
And tonight, The Wall Street Journal is reporting it took Garland weeks to decide whether to approve that application to the search warrant. One of the reporters who broke that story described what happened during that period of time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADIE GURMAN, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL REPORTER: He met with Justice Department officials and other FBI officials for weeks in private meetings, weighing the ins and outs of such a high profile politically sensitive move, he does not want to make any sort of misstep that is going to be then you know, allowing the case to be questioned in court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
On Friday, the DOJ released a warrant and some of the documents from that search. Now the department is under pressure to reveal the actual affidavit for the investigation. But prosecutors are trying to prevent that from happening. Today in a court filing, they cited the possible risk to quote, an ongoing law enforcement investigation that implicates national security. The court filing also warns of quote, significant and irreparable damage to this ongoing criminal investigation should the details be made public.
Prosecutors also noted releasing the affidavit could chill future cooperation by witnesses. Former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton has been speaking out about the recovery of classified documents from Trump`s Florida home. Bolton says he and his White House colleagues had quote, deep concerns about Trump`s handling of documents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: The President had a habit of asking to retain sensitive documents. And from time to time, he did that and we didn`t know what happened to them. And it was always a concern that because he didn`t really fully understand the risks to sources and methods and other dangers of revealing classified information that it might get out to the wrong people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Of course, it was not so much a concern that John Bolton and others spoke out about it at the time. He waited months and months and months. There`s also news tonight about the Justice Department`s January 6 investigation. POLITICO reporting a federal grand jury has now subpoenaed Trump White House lawyer Eric Herschmann for documents and testimony.
You remember him the witness with that, I`d say notable artwork behind him for all those videos that we watched for weeks. He`s the guy who told the January 6 Committee that he has suggested John Eastman, quote, get a great effing criminal defense lawyer.
[23:05:01]
The vice chair on that committee is a candidate and one of tomorrow`s crucial primary elections, one that could mark the end of a political dynasty of sorts You know what I`m talking about Republican congresswoman Liz Cheney. She is facing Trump back challenger Harriet Hageman. Cheney, whose father of course was a fixture in Washington for decades, Republican Washington for decades. He -- She has held her house seat for six years. But polls are now showing Hageman well ahead of Cheney and tomorrow`s primary.
Alaska`s GOP Senator Lisa Murkowski also facing a candidate who`s got Trump`s support, but Murkowski is expected to her win her primary.
With that, let`s get smarter tonight beginning with the help of our national security expert, Frank Figliuzzi. Frank once served as the Assistant Director for Counterintelligence at the FBI. Frank, we got a lot to get through. I want to start with this joint bulletin from the FBI and Homeland Security. How serious is it that they are putting out a statement talking about the threats to the agency?
FRANK FIGLIUZZI, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE: Well, I`m so serious that I can`t recall in my 25 years of service at the FBI, anything like this level of threat across federal law enforcement, and particularly aimed at the FBI. So, this is unprecedented. Security has been enhanced in every one of the 56 FBI field offices.
And look, it`s all coming almost entirely from online activity that`s being monitored, people seemingly unafraid to say that they want to kill, injure federal agents, and Stephanie at the heart of all of this is disinformation and lies. This is devoid of facts.
If you were to actually sit down with some of these people and say, Have you heard that they tried talking to Trump? Have you heard that a subpoena was issued and ignored? Have you heard that his lawyer submitted a document that was wrong saying they had turned over all the documents? Did you see the return on the search warrant that said they collected and retrieved multiple top secret and secure compartmented information documents? Do you know any of this is going on? The answer would likely be either? No, I didn`t hear that from my new sources, or I don`t believe any of it. And that`s where we are Stephanie.
RUHLE: Frank, it`s more than just the absence of truth, though there`s not a void, that space is being filled with poisonous lies. So, when you talk to people that are currently at the FBI, I know you talk to former colleagues every day, what are they telling you? Because traditionally, the GOP Republicans, Donald Trump himself, has gotten a ton of support from law enforcement.
FIGLIUZZI: Yes, look, you know, if you`d asked me this question a couple years ago about what the FBI was going through, I`d give you the standard line, which is like the agents put their head down, do their work and try to stay apolitical. But I`d be lying if I said that this wasn`t getting their attention.
Think of the employees, the professional specialists, not the gun and badge agents. But think of those analysts, the secretaries, the evidence team, people that come in to work, work their shift every day, they got to stop at that security booth. And they`re thinking, what`s going on here? Why am I risking my life because the FBI is doing its job?
You know, no FBI agent raises their hand and joins a popularity contest. They raised their hand and take an oath to protect, preserve, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. But no one tells you hey, you know, if some of those enemies are domestic, you`re going to really upset a percentage of the population. So be careful.
But here we are, and you`re either for law and order for everybody, or you`re someone who thinks Law and Order is only a good thing when the other folks, the folks you don`t align with are being investigated. We`re in a very dangerous place.
And I have to tell you, there`s no sign of letting up. And this may be just a glimpse, Stephanie, of what might happen if the former president is actually indicted on something this is just a search warrant generating this violent activity. Imagine if he`s ultimately held accountable and arrested.
RUHLE: That`s why Frank it is our duty to be telling the truth every day, every night as loud as we can. The former guy went to social media to take complaining that the FBI had taken three passports from Mar-a-Lago. Can you explain standard operating procedure and what goes on during one of these searches?
FIGLIUZZI: Well, so standard operating procedure, particularly when you know someone is represented by counsel, and even might -- you might be looking investigatively at whether the his or her attorney supplied false information to you, you establish what`s called a filter team. And those agents will look at everything first. So they don`t get dirtied up by seeing attorney-client privilege information and they make a decision. This is relevant to our case, hey, this is not and this by the way, it looks like it might be attorney client privilege.
[23:10:07]
In this case, what we`re hearing NBC News is reporting on is that yes the passwords were scooped up whether it was they were stuck to something else or whether it was part of their investigation, we don`t know, but we`re hearing the filter team said hey you can have these back. We don`t need these anymore. And apparently they`ve already been returned.
I take that to mean the process worked. A lot of social media questions about hey, why would somebody have three passports? I at one point in my career, Stephanie, had my FBI career I had three passports, a black diplomatic passport, or a maroon official government and a blue tourist passport.
But here`s my question. They gave back, allegedly an active diplomatic passport to the former president. Why? And what my research tells me is we do allow former presidents to continue to carry a diplomatic passport, that`s got to stop. Diplomatic passports for people representing the United States government interests on behalf of a request by the government. That`s why I carried one. It`s a very limited carry. You have it for the purpose you need it for and you give it back.
And this practice of allowing someone like Trump who certainly is not representing the U.S. government`s interests, needs to stop. Biden stopped Trump about a year and a half ago from getting classified intelligence briefings as a former president. He needs to stop him from having a diplomatic passport.
RUHLE: All right, then Frank don`t go anywhere. I want to bring in the rest of our leadoff panel this evening. Phil Rucker joins us, Pulitzer Prize winning deputy national editor at the Washington Post. He has written two best-selling books about the inner workings of the Trump White House and Department of Justice veteran Neal Katyal, he was the acting Solicitor General during the Obama administration. He has argued dozens of cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, which means we are putting him to work for us.
Neal, there are so many legal headlines tonight, but I want to start with the Wall Street Journal reporting about Merrick Garland`s deliberations over the Mar-a-Lago search. They said he was deliberating for weeks and weeks, would a critic say, if these documents were so important, we`re so sensitive? Why would it take weeks to decide whether or not to issue a search warrant?
NEAL KATYAL, FORMER ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL: Well, I think that`s Garland`s trait, which is to be incredibly cautious, view everything from every angle, before taking action. He`s not a kind of blood thirsty prosecutor or something like that.
I suspect that we haven`t heard the full story that it`s not just he was deliberating. But we already know, for example, they wanted to have access to the surveillance cameras and the like to see who was going in and out of those things. And we also don`t know, you know, when they found out some of the most serious information was still retained there. Remember, we know that Trump`s lawyer signed a document saying there were no more classified material there.
So, you know, given all of that you can understand why Garland would take some time. To me, the kind of key thing that we`re still waiting on, is any explanation whatsoever by Donald Trump for why he held these documents. What in the world was he doing with top secret electronic intercepts and information about the French president and stuff like that.
You know, I handled these documents before I was in the Solicitor General`s office, I was National Security Adviser at the Justice Department. And I can tell you that when you have this kind of information, you have the strongest responsibility kind of moral oath to safeguard it really carefully.
And frankly, I`d say for people like me who never served in the field, and didn`t ever generate that intelligence, get feel it even more strongly, because, you know, lives were put on the line to get that information and you have to take care of it in the most pure way possible. You guard them with your life. And what did Donald Trump do? He brought him to a golf club. I mean, give me a break. This is as bad as it gets. He`s absolutely justified. The search it was justified and obviously produced fruits exactly what garlic thought would be found. They found it.
RUHLE: OK, said it right there. Neal, the search was justified. For days and days, we`ve been hearing from right wing media. It was a bad search. It was unlawful. It shouldn`t have happened. If that were the case, if there was any funny business about this search, wouldn`t we see Trump in court today, or at least his lawyers fighting the Department of Justice, but we haven`t.
KATYAL: 100 percent. 100 percent. These are the same kind of Jokers who, you know, there are bad law enforcement abuses. I mean, there are Fourth Amendment violations. But these are the same people who say they`re and those are never violations. Only violation when that happens to them.
And, you know, the fact is here, they all claimed, oh, you got to see the word got to see the word and then you see the word. And then you see the contents of what the FBI found at Mar-a-Lago sets of highly classified top secret Compartmented Information. They can`t really say at this point, the search wasn`t justified.
[23:15:03]
I mean, they can try but the proof is in the pudding, Stephanie, as you say, they could walk into court right now and challenge it. They haven`t done. Why? Because every day, of every week they`re going to lose that challenge.
RUHLE: And what does it tell you about prosecutors fighting to keep the affidavit sealed? I mean, the fact that they`re concerned, it could chill future witnesses. That sounds like a mob trial.
KATYAL: So this word by the Justice Department was absolutely expected. You know, we used to resist anything like that in an active investigation. You have the media, other folks who want access to the affidavit -- underlying affidavits. You never give it to them if it`s an ongoing investigation. So that wasn`t surprising to me.
What was surprising to me, Stephanie, is what you`re isolating. It`s page eight of the Justice Department`s filing, which I put up on my Twitter for anyone who wants to read along, but basically, what the Justice Department says there is, we can`t give you this affidavit because witnesses would be compromised, and novel investigative techniques could also be revealed.
What does that suggest to me it suggests that they have a person or persons on the inside at Mar-a-Lago who were giving the Justice Department, giving Merrick Garland information. And they may even have some technical monitoring capabilities, which might go to what we were talking about earlier, and why Garland took some time.
All of that means that you`ve got to worry if you`re Donald Trump, and, you know, Donald Trump is pathologically worried like a mob boss of people flipping on him of defection. But even more so for someone like him who has a tortured relationship to the truth and honesty. Now he`s got to worry about everything he`s ever said to anyone about any of this because any of these people could be that witness that the Justice Department is referring to at page eight of their filing today.
RUHLE: But of course, if you didn`t do anything illegal, there`s nothing they can flip and accuse you of doing. All right, Phil, it`s your turn. Back in 2016, President Trump, former President Trump was all about the law all about law and order all about the boys in blue or so he said, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: On political corruption, we are going to restore honor to our government. In my administration, I`m going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Now here we are Phil that party of law and order. There are a whole lot of Republicans right now attacking the FBI, or at the very least, being silent while others are attacking with the FBI -- attacking the FBI while they have real threats against them. Could this cost the GOP the support they`ve enjoyed for so long from law enforcement?
PHIL RUCKER, THE WASHINGTON POST DEPUTY NATIONAL EDITOR: So an important question, Stephanie, and let`s keep in mind, it`s not just Donald Trump, who has done a complete 180 when it comes to handling of classified information. Back in 2016, when it was Hillary Clinton`s e-mails under review, Trump and so many other Republican leaders were assailing her for her mishandling of classified information and vowing to use the law to hold her accountable.
And now they`re making excuses for Trump`s mishandling of classified information and saying this is a politically motivated and really unjustified search at Mar-a-Lago and frankly, investigation overall, into his handling of documents. So it`s a 180 there.
And whether there`s a political price to pay, I think is a little bit early to tell. But I think you see within the Republican leadership here in Washington a divide and how strongly some leaders, especially those in the House of Representatives have come to Trump`s defense this past week. And yet we`ve heard so little from Senate Leader Mitch McConnell and some of the other leading Republicans in the Senate, which I think is an indication that it`s unclear how the politics are going to play.
And you`ve got some of these long term strategic thinkers like McConnell gaming this out and wondering if it might not be politically risky for them to fully defend Trump in this moment, because we don`t know what more there is to learn about these documents, or about where this probe could end.
RUHLE: Phil, we`ve got two big primaries tomorrow in Alaska and Wyoming. Lisa Murkowski and Liz Cheney, both being primaryby Trump backed support -- by Trump back candidates. There`s a good chance Murkowski will survive Alaska, which is an open primary state, but Liz Cheney, a bigger chance she doesn`t. What will Liz Cheney`s political future look like? Could she have an even bigger platform if she loses?
[23:20:00]
RUCKER: Oh, certainly, you know, it`s been interesting to watch her campaign the last few weeks the advertisement that she put on the air just in the last couple of days, but also that ad from her father the former vice president Dick Cheney and her messages overall. She has been speaking to a national audience. She has been talking about defending the Republic, defending our democracy. She has been appealing to all Americans who want to join her in that fight.
She`s using this campaign but really the January 6 investigation I think as a springboard to build a national movement of Republicans willing to stand up to Trump. I think she knows that she may well lose tomorrow night in Wyoming, and that could still be the birth for her of a potential presidential run in 2024.
It seems very clear just watching her public maneuverings. But also when you look at the reporting on what`s happening behind the scenes, my colleague Paul Kane has a great piece on this at the Washington Post tonight, it`s clear that she`s maneuvering and positioning herself for a national political future even if she loses this house seat.
RUHLE: Well, we will be watching it tomorrow. And of course, since it is an election night, Steve Kornacki will be with us. Phil Rucker, Neal Katyal, Frank Figliuzzi. I could talk to you gentlemen all night. We`ve got a lot to cover. But for now, we`re going to leave it there and a reminder you better stick around tomorrow night. We`ll be breaking down all of those primaries right here, beginning at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
Coming up in this hour, Rudy Giuliani officially under criminal investigation in the state of Georgia, where the election interference case is getting serious. We`ve got a reporter from Atlanta standing by. And later, thousands of asylum seekers are suddenly political pawns in the blue state versus red state battle over U.S. immigration policies. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on a busy Monday night.
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[23:26:34]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM WEHLE, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: A target generally means you know the jury grand jury has found evidence that you probably or possibly committed a crime that`s different from a subject which is we`re concerned about you and the lowest level would be a witness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Georgia prosecutors confirmed today that Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York City is officially a target of their criminal investigation into the 2020 election. But he`s still saying his statements are protected by attorney-client privilege and Giuliani is not the only member of Trump`s inner circle being compelled to testify. A judge today denied Senator Lindsey Graham`s attempt to get around a subpoena in the very same investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREG BLUESTEIN, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION POLITICAL REPORTER: A federal judge basically said his arguments that he because he was a federal lawmaker that he had some sort of legislative privilege, were thrown out the window.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: To help break it all down, Neal Katyal still with us, and let`s bring in Patricia Murphy, political reporter and columnist for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and co-host of the Politically Georgia podcast. Patricia, you have been all over this story. Rudy Giuliani now a target. What does that mean for the former mayor of NYC?
PATRICIA MURPHY, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION COLUMNIST: Well, that means a great deal. We know that of all of these witnesses who`ve been coming back and forth in front of the special grand jury, and many of those are just information gathering purposes. That`s why those witnesses are coming forward just for the grand jury to get an idea of the lay of the land. The events that happen. Other people now including Rudy Giuliani have been notified that they are targets that could come under criminal prosecution.
He specifically could be indicted for any number of crimes that the DA Fani Willis is looking into. That includes possible crimes of election interference, conspiracy to commit election fraud. There are a number of things that she is looking at none of those have been specified. But he has been told now he`s not just coming in to give information to the grand jury. He`s coming in, because he`s a target of this investigation.
RUHLE: Well, can we get a little specific, Neal, do we know what crimes the grand jury thinks he may have committed?
KATYAL: I don`t think that we do know that. So, you know, Rudy`s counsel has asked the prosecutors six or seven times, hey, is Rudy a target? And every time they never got an answer, until today, when they did, Rudy is now a target. And that is a specialized term. You`re absolutely right, that prosecutors use to say, basically, you`re likely to be indicted, and has that kind of specialized meaning. And prosecutors tell someone`s a target, basically, because number one, they want to give that person the opportunity to cooperate and flip or two, because they want to give that person an opportunity to explain why they shouldn`t be charged or something like that.
At this point, given the -- we know that the grand jury is looking into allegations of, you know, the 11,780 votes find me that we know they`re looking into allegations that Rudy and others were trying to tell a story about a election fraud, which had no basis whatsoever, in fact, and that had been repudiated.
And now we also know that there`s allegations that the voting machines may have been seized, tamper with some of the software, all of those things are swirling around. We don`t know exactly what the grand jury is looking at. But we do know at this point that Rudy Giuliani is facing a criminal, a criminal investigation.
[23:30:03]
You know, and for someone who prides himself on being tough on crime, Rudy Giuliani sure manages to end up on the wrong side of a law criminal investigations.
RUHLE: And finding out this kind of news would certainly make me sick to my stomach but not so sick that I could get out of my day in court. And that`s exactly what Giuliani is trying to do. He doesn`t want to testify on Wednesday saying he is in poor health. Can you call in sick two days before?
MURPHY: Well, the judge in this case said if he`s going to try and call in sick again, he let Giuliani`s lawyers know he needs to do that sooner than the day before, which is what happened last week. Giuliani had two stents implanted into his heart in July. So his lawyers have argued, listen, this is a 78-year-old man with health conditions, he is not able to fly, he cannot come to Georgia.
And the judge really just rejected that. Giuliani has actually been quite active. He`s been hosting his radio show every day. He went to New York. He`s been to a baseball game. So he has been able to do other things. And so the judge said, Listen, you can take a bus, you can take a car, you can visit friends in DC. It doesn`t have to be a one day trip, but you need to be in Georgia on Wednesday. And so we certainly expect to see him on Wednesday.
RUHLE: And we`ll be watching. I have to ask what are the people in Georgia think of all this obviously, Patricia, this is massive on the national stage. But those midterms are around the corner. Is this situation is this case, a kitchen table issue of people down there. This is a state that Herschel Walker could win this upcoming election.
MURPHY: Well, the 2020 election really, in so many ways has never ended in Georgia. There have been contests and objections to that election. And Rudy Giuliani was a huge part of that. And December of 2020, came down for this massive Senate hearing where he just had conspiracy theory, one after another after another many of the nominees and the primary were people who had been handpicked by Donald Trump, because they were pushing those conspiracy theories as well. So this has been just a constant theme in this election.
Herschel Walker is one of the very high profile Trump endorses left many of them were defeated in the primary, but Herschel Walker is still on that ballot. And we also have Bert Jones who had been a target of this investigation running for lieutenant governor. So there are multiple candidates still pushing these conspiracies or at least not rejecting them full on. And so it`s absolutely going to be part at least of 2022 and certainly if 2024.
RUHLE: A reminder that this upcoming election is about one thing, democracy. Patricia Murphy and Neal Katyal, thank you both for joining us tonight. When we come back, the mayor of New York City calls it a humanitarian crisis. While the governor of Texas says he`s got no choice. The political battle over people who just want a safe place to call home when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:37:37]
RUHLE: A heart wrenching drama still unfolding tonight, a drama that has red states battling blue states with thousands of lives caught in between. It began when the Republican governors of Texas and Arizona started putting migrants on buses, sending them to more liberal areas like Washington DC.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has been the scene near Union Station for months now busloads of people being dropped off on the streets of DC most coming from Texas and Arizona. In letters to the Secretary of Defense and the White House, Mayor Bowser is requesting the DC National Guard be deployed indefinitely.
MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D) WASHINGTON, D.C.: I`ve asked for the deployment of the guard as long as we need the guard to deal with the humanitarian crisis that we expect to escalate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Thank you to NBC affiliate WRC for that reporting. And as we hear from WNBC in New York once these migrants began arriving, local nonprofits and city agencies began doing what they could to welcome them to our city.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New Yorkers welcoming newly arrived migrants coming into the Port Authority Bus Terminal in Midtown, straight from the Texas Mexico border.
MANUEL CASTRO, NYC OFFICE OF IMMIGRANT AFFAIRS COMMISSIONER: We expect approximately three buses with a few perhaps over 100 people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was an emotional moment for many Commissioner Manuel Castro with the New York City office of Immigrant Affairs was there to greet people early morning, Castro pointing out that after surviving a dangerous journey for Central and South America, these families are now caught in the middle of a political battle over immigration policy in the US.
CASTRO: This is a political stunt by Governor Abbott. Unfortunately using human beings as political pawns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: With us tonight to discuss A.B. Stoddard, veteran Washington journalist and associate editor and columnist for Real Clear Politics and the President and CEO of VotoLatino Maria Teresa Kumar and MSNBC contributor.
A.B., Governor Abbott of Texas says this is a red state versus blue state political battle but how? How is this a winning issue for him spending state resources to put these people on a bus? Are there really people in Texas saying right on Doug, you`ve got my vote?
[23:40:00]
A.B. STODDARD: Yes, Stephanie. This is not only a winner for Republicans with their base but they are targeting Governor Ducey an advocate that it`s a winner with swing voters as well. President Biden`s approval on immigration has been terrible throughout his presidency at Real Clear Politics right now. It`s an average of all the polls at 34.8 percent approval on this issue. His own pollsters, The New York Times reported in May told him that this was a huge vulnerability for him that voters are beginning to think there was no plan for chaos at the border. He has changed policies, obviously, since President Trump, more permissive policies have allowed for more crossings.
And these governors are saying, Let the blue states and blue cities like New York and Washington DC, handle these people, let them deal, find the resources and find the volunteers and find the cohesion to take care of it. And they are reveling in the fact that both mayors are saying this is a humanitarian crisis, and are pressuring the federal government for the help the red state governors say they didn`t get. So the fact that they foisted the problem onto the Democrats and made it a source of tension between them and the administration is the goal that they`ve succeeded at.
RUHLE: Well, political ploy or political battle, the people who are losing this battle are those migrants who are on the buses. Maria tell us what it is like for them?
MARIA TERESA KUMAR, VOTOLATINO PRESIDENT AND CEO: Well as incredibly challenging, because oftentimes, they`re coming from Central America after making an incredible trek, they are processed at the border. And then what Governor Abbott is doing is putting them on an bus ride for 44 hours to New York City, or to Washington DC, where this system is not set up to accept and process them fast enough.
Unlike Washington, DC, unlike New York City, Texas, and Arizona have individuals that are -- and institutions and shelters and professionals who know how to process these individuals. And what you`re seeing, I was in Washington, DC at Union Station just a couple of weeks ago, and it was heartbreaking, Stephanie, because I witnessed moms taking care of the babies in their laps in the middle of, you know, in the middle of rush hour with people trying to figure out well, you know, I just landed, I don`t have any access to anything. And these are real humanitarian stories.
Oftentimes these people are seeking asylum legally. So the fact that they`re trying to get they`re trying to harm them, really makes you think where our priorities are, as Americans. Look at these images in stark contrast to the refugees that we processed who mainly that we`re Ukrainian. And it tells you all we need to know about immigration policy in this country that it is seen through a lens of colorism and it`s not equal.
And I can tell you that for mother to go on, make the journey from Central America and try to give their parents -- their kid has shot says that they`re trying to survive and that we have to rethink our immigration policy, our asylum policy. I would, you know, I don`t think there`s an American in around us that would say that our system is not is working as it should. It`s absolutely broken. And it`s going to have to be the administration doing something about it, but it`s also going to be -- have to be Governor Abbott.
Governor Abbott right now is, is you know, he`s leading in the polls against Beto O`Rourke but this is a complete political ploy, because he also has less than 52 percent approval rating. And so he is struggling at the polls because people don`t like him. And so he`s recognizing that he hasn`t been able to fix the Texas grid. He has -- he signed legislation for against abortion. He doesn`t believe in gun reform, issues that are hotbed issues in Texas right now. And instead, he`s decided that his political ploy is going to blame it on migrants who are simply seeking a decent life in a second shot.
RUHLE: And now he`s trying to fundraise off of it A.B., is that going to work?
STODDARD: Well, he`s doing two things. I mean, one, he does think he`s a potential candidate for the presidency in 2024. So he unlike Governor Ducey of Arizona, he`s -- he is seeking more attention trying to sort of, you know, outdo Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida, who`s the party`s favorite right now, to succeed Donald Trump if he doesn`t, you know, win the nomination.
He`s -- He has raised some money so far. But again, I don`t think that this, we`re not -- we`re not talking about we can when we`re looking at this and the political success. It is right -- we can question what are the priorities of the American people but what Governor Abbott season this is an opportunity that works.
[23:45:02]
He sees an ends to a political means to embarrass the administration. Put it on the defense. Put Americans out, sorry, I`m Democrats in blue states and blue cities on the defense scrambling to try to take care of busloads of people and saying this is what we`re dealing with in our border towns all the time. It`s time you get your act together.
So far there has not been just look at this issue, is not been a lot of blowbacks. So even if he doesn`t raise about a lot of funds from concern Texans who think what he`s doing is great. He`s not being punished for this at all.
RUHLE: Question is, we`re not getting immigration policy anytime soon. Irrelevant of who`s in power. So what are we going to do about all of those people on the buses to make sure they are safe and secure wherever they go. AB .Stoddard, Maria Teresa Kumar, thank you for joining us tonight.
When we come back from an attempted Alaskan come back to another big Biden win, some of the topics trending on social media this Monday night when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:50:48]
RUHLE: Every day, there are certain stories that catch our eyes. They may not be the top story of the day, but they are definitely worth mentioning. So here are a couple of items trending tonight. First, look who might be turning on Trump. Fox News pundants spent most of last week clutching their pearls and spreading lies about the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago. But not everyone at the network seems convinced Trump is worth defending these days.
Laura Ingraham, one of the former guys closest and most vocal allies, as long as the cameras are rolling, of course. But today, she took the unusual step of questioning whether it is time for Trump to hang up the MAGA hat once and for all.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Donald Trump`s been a friend of mine for 25 years and I`m always very open about this on my on my show. But, you know, we`ll see whether that`s what the country wants. Maybe it`s time to turn the page if we can get someone who has all Trump`s policies, who`s not Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Maybe it`s time to turn the page. Well, we know at least one person who disagrees with Laura Ingraham, and that is Sarah Palin. Palin has a run a hardcore MAGA campaign for the lone U.S. House seat in her home state of Alaska, earning the former guys all important endorsement and even campaigning with him in Anchorage last month, voters will now decide tomorrow whether that is enough to send her to Washington. But no matter what Sarah Palin does from here, and a lot of what she says tomorrow, let`s all agree she may never top this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: I don`t think it`s changed me at all. I have the same values and convictions and positions and policies. I`ve just a greater appreciation I think for what other candidates go through you know, it`s pretty brutal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Brutal indeed. Finally, we also want to make a mention of something you could say is a BFD tomorrow. President Biden expected to sign the Inflation Reduction Act into law. The landmark bill will cut the costs of prescription drugs, make historic investments in clean energy, and finally make our tax code more fair.
The legislation has been a long time coming and fulfills some of the promises Joe Biden named when he was running for president. And as Democrats will be quick to remind us over these next few weeks before the midterms, not one single Republican voted in favor of this bill.
Coming up, another viral moment from today a timely lesson in veggie prices from an unexpected expert when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:58:17]
RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, a crime against crudity. The grocery shopping habits of Pennsylvania Senate candidate Dr. Mehmet Oz are being criticized again today. Now that a video he posted back in April has resurfaced. Back in the spring of course inflation and the rising cost of goods were at the top of most of everyone`s minds. So the Oz campaign created this video. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. MEHMET OZ, REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR THE 2022 U.S. SENATE: I thought this was grocery shopping. I`m at Wegners and my wife wants some vegetables through the day, right. So here`s a broccoli. That`s two bucks. A ton of broccoli there. There`s some asparagus, that`s $4. Carrots. That`s four more dollars. That`s $10 of vegetables there and then we need some guacamole. That`s $4 more and she loves salsa. We have salsa here. $6. Must be a shortage of salsa. Guys, that`s $20 for Crudite. This doesn`t include the tequila. I mean, it`s outrageous. We got Joe Biden to thank for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: For fact sake where are where do we begin? First he says he`s shopping at Wagner`s that does not exist. In Pennsylvania there is Redner`s and then there`s Wegmans. But there`s no such thing as Wegner`s. I believe the store he was chopping in was a Redner`s. His opponent, PA Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman, who happens to be celebrating his birthday today. Delighted in the Oz Crudite video, tweeting this. In PA, we call this a veggie tray. He then tweeted, I never dreamt Dr. Oz and Crudite would trend nationally on Twitter on my birthday, but here we are.
[00:00:00]
But perhaps the best response came from our good friend chef Jose Andres, the World`s Central Kitchen founder definitely knows his way around a grocery store and here`s what he had to say quote, Dr. Oz, I`m inviting you to come with me and shop together by the avocado and avocado. You can make the guacamole salsa for $2. And you can make great vegetable fried rice for 12 people less than $1 per person, kiss, emoji hashtag, learn to shop bipartisan.
Now that sounds like a party I would like to attend. And I hope that the doctor takes him up on that offer because whomever is serving uncooked asparagus on their veggie tray or crudite, whatever you want to call it is not going to have a very popular party, stick to the baby carrots and bell peppers, uncooked asparagus, that`s a hard pass.
And on that note, I wish you all a very, very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, thanks for staying up late. I will see you at the end of tomorrow.