Summary
A new report says the FBI was looking for nuclear documents during its search at Mar-a-Lago. It comes as U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland revealed he "personally approved" the search warrant and has moved to unseal some of the documents. Former President Trump has until Friday afternoon to tell the DOJ if he plans to challenge it. Plus, we learn Trump received a subpoena to return the classified documents before the FBI sent its agents to Mar-a-Lago.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC ANCHOR: I learned so much from the way Bill played, the way he coached and the way he lived his life. We all did. Bill Russell and his children and grandchildren who he loved so much. Get tonight`s "LAST WORD". THE 11TH HOUR with Stephanie Ruhle starts now.
[23:00:26]
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC ANCHOR: Tonight, new reporting that the FBI was looking for nuclear documents at Mar-a-Lago, as the Attorney General calls Trump`s bluff and asked a court to unseal the search warrant. The ball is now in a former guy`s court and the clock is ticking.
Then the vicious threats against the FBI and the judge who signed the warrant are exclusive new reporting on the January 6 connection to a deadly confrontation in Ohio.
Plus, the Republican response, some Trump allies may now be trying to tamp down the rhetoric while waiting for whatever comes next, as THE 11TH HOUR gets underway on this Thursday night.
Good evening. Once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle tonight chilling breaking news about the FBI in search of Mar-a-Lago. The Washington Post reporting agents were looking for nuclear documents, quote, classified documents relating to nuclear weapons were among the items FBI agents sought in a search of former President Donald Trump`s Florida residence on Monday, according to people familiar with the investigation. They did not offer additional details about what type of information the agents were seeking, including whether it involved weapons belonging to the United States or some other nation, nor did they say if such documents were recovered as part of the search.
One of the posts reporters on that story at this earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH DAWSEY, THE WASHINGTON POST POLITICAL INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: We know that it was a significant part of what they wanted. I mean, when they first went down and the former president gave them 15 boxes of material. There were top secret documents in those boxes. When they came back on Monday, they got 12 more boxes. This time they were looking for classified documents about nuclear weapons, but they found classified documents about other topics as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: A Trump spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Post. But tonight one of his attorneys was asked about the report on Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Is it your understanding that there were not documents related to our nuclear capabilities or nuclear issues that had national security implications in the President`s possession when the agents showed up at Mar-a-Lago?
CHRISTINA BOBB, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: That`s correct. I don`t believe they were and if they thought --
INGRAHAM: Well, do you know for a fact. Do you know for a fact they were? Have you spoken to the President about it?
BOBB: I have not specifically spoken to the President about what nuclear materials may or may not have been in there. I do not believe there were any in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: How does a report like that come out and Trump`s attorney hasn`t even spoken to him yet. The Department of Justice and FBI have declined to comment to The Post. And NBC News has not confirmed this reporting.
This comes hours after Attorney General Merrick Garland said the Justice Department is asking to make the search warrant for Mar-a-Lago, a public document.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Justice Department has filed a motion in the Southern District of Florida to unseal a search warrant and property receipt. The former president publicly confirmed the search that evening, as is his right. Copies of both the warrant and the FBI property receipt were provided on the day of the search to the former president`s counsel, who was on site during the search.
The search warrant was authorized by a federal court upon the required finding of probable cause. First, I personally approved the decision to seek a search warrant in this matter. Second, the department does not take such a decision lightly. Where possible, it is standard practice to seek less intrusive means as an alternative to a search and to narrowly scope any search that is undertaken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: NBC News has confirmed reports Trump was sent a subpoena months ago for the missing documents. Garland did not mentioned that and said he couldn`t talk about the investigation. Now Trump has to decide whether to fight the DOJ is moved to unseal the warrant. His lawyers have until 3:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow to object tonight.
Katie Benner of The New York Times reports this, Trump allies are discussing the possibility of challenging the Justice Department`s motion to unseal the Mar-a-Lago search warrant. Many Trump allies have been attacking the DOJ and the FBI for days and today an armed man fired nailgun into an FBI field office in Cincinnati Ohio.
[23:05:05]
He then fled and was killed during a confrontation with police. No agents were hurt. Officials say this very same man was at the U.S. Capitol on January 6. We will have much more on that reporting later in the hour.
But with that, let`s get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel and I assure you, it is a good one. Yamiche Alcindor, NBC News correspondent and moderator of Washington Week on PBS, Katie Benner, Pulitzer Prize winning Justice Department reporter for the New York Times and former U.S. Attorney Joyce Vance, who has spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. She is also a law professor at the University of Alabama. And Clint Watts joins us, west Point graduate Army veteran, former FBI special agent and a distinguished research fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute.
Clint, I turn to you first. I want to share what the former CIA director said earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: These are exceptionally sensitive documents that are restricted in terms of who has access to them, who can handle them, how they`re stored. And to take them out of the White House, I think is just the height of recklessness and irresponsibility. They`re not even uploaded into top secret information systems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Clint any idea, right, we`re civilians mere mortals. Any idea what these documents could be? And how dangerous could it be for the United States that they`re, you know, in the former guys basement?
CLINT WATTS, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Yes, I think what the Director Brennan said there was right. Anything involving nuclear is given special code and restricted access. And when you go into the government, certain things have even higher levels of security classification. What he was referring to is definitely anything involving nuclear has that.
I would also say though, I`ve seen some of the banter out on social media, we`re not talking about nuclear codes, there`s distinct processes around that. I don`t think that`s what it is. But it could be everything and anything to include what is our technological development around nuclear weapons where we might want to deploy them. So these are policy sort of decisions.
You might remember back, there was a lot of debate with Russia, on and off during the Trump administration and with China, in terms of pulling in and out of different bilateral trilateral relationships in terms of nuclear weapons and where they would be placed. And the Russians have always wanted to know whether or not we would move nuclear weapons in and out of the different locations, Turkey being one of those examples, that`s always under contention.
And then separately, it can be weapons development, Russia. Another example is Vladimir Putin constantly keeps showing videos of different nuclear devices, they would like to develop, and send us direction. But at the same point, we keep those secrets very hidden and protected. So it`s a range or a gamut. It could be policy, it could be technical capabilities, or it could be future things that were invested in.
But across the board, in terms of anything involving nuclear, really any top secret documents of any sort, they should never, under any circumstance leave the White House or leave the control of the United States government. And if you or I, Stephanie, were to do any of those things, we would immediately be charged, arrested and prosecuted for doing such things that we`re hearing about at the Mar-a-Lago compound right now.
RUHLE: So why on earth Clint, right, right. We know from when Donald Trump was in office. He didn`t even like to sit through briefings. He didn`t like to read. Why would Donald Trump the private citizen have any use for content like this?
It`s not like he was taking, you know, photographs of himself things that were nostalgic, memorable memorabilia. This has nothing to do with what he would do in his private life. Why would he want it?
WATTS: So I can`t know for sure. But I think there`s a few things that we can look at. President Trump was obsessed with nuclear. We saw many times during his time in the administration, Kennedy launched a new quality launched into quarters questions about it. He seem to always be obsessed with that almost like a childlike fascination.
I think secondly, there was a very loose relationship in terms of documents, in n terms of communications in the White House. There were several times you heard about people bringing cell phones in and out of secure a compartment mentalize facilities that are normally be for classified information. And I can`t tell you the number of times we saw in the newspapers, about documents floating around to people who do or do not have security clearances.
I think that`s where I`m most concerned was, there`s lots of different theories for why you`d want it, maybe it`s for memorabilia. Maybe it was to show off or create like a museum for himself down in Mar-a-Lago, or you know, it could be something more sinister and nefarious, which amorous staff know the value of those documents and what they could be used for. If you have that knowledge in other contexts, which can be anything from investing in different companies or properties, using it to barter relationships with foreign countries, or just in terms of if you want to shape policy. Should you want to come back and be the president United States, again, after a four-year low.
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RUHLE: I might want to take some photographs. Maybe my desk. I don`t know why you`d take this. Katie, tell us about the New York Times reporting tonight as always, you are crushing it. But you know a lot about this search. Tell us.
KATIE BENNER, THE NEW YORK TIMES JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Yes, so the search, well, first of all, the search as Merrick Garland said was something that was very carefully thought out before it was executed. The other means were exhausted, including a subpoena as many outlets have now confirmed that Donald Trump was subpoena for the documents and did not fully comply.
So you`re going to -- you should expect when we do finally see this warrant unsealed to see reference to the need for the subpoena -- the need for the warrant, a lack of cooperation, perhaps, violation of the Presidential Records Act and references to classified information.
Also Merrick Garland, keep in mind, he was very clear today. He was not doing -- he was not talking about the ongoing investigation. What he was doing is explaining the Justice Department`s reasoning and that is something that he needed to do in order to basically combat the fact that Trump and his allies were filling the void with information, misinformation and things that were outright untrue. And he did not want to follow the path of Robert Mueller, the former special counsel who made no motions to correct the record at all, and who saw his entire investigation be sort of redefined by Trump.
RUHLE: Joyce, what does the law say about the mishandling of classified documents? Because if these are of a nuclear nature, that that`s a whole other category?
JOYCE VANCE, FMR. U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, it is, and we`re speculating, Steph, because we don`t know precisely what the facts are. But of course, President Trump who was outraged by what he perceived as Hillary Clinton`s misconduct, ultimately, the FBI cleared her of knowingly possessing classified material and no action was taken.
But during Trump`s tenure, Congress passed a statute that actually stiffen the penalties for mishandling classified material, turning it into a felony, with a mandate -- with a maximum five year sentence.
So there are a lot of possibilities here, that wouldn`t be the only type of statute that could come into play. You know, Clint might be able to shed some light on this. But if some of this material, not the nuclear material, but we`re learning that there was other classified material that was recovered, if some of that was SCI material that would have been in a skiff. And normally, you can`t just walk out of a skiff with that sort of material. You might have to, for instance, conceal it to get out.
So although this is conjecture, that sort of ups the ante for the type of conduct Trump would have had to engage in, to walk out with these sorts of materials. And that would be the type of conduct that would establish pretty clearly that he was aware that they were materials that he was not entitled to have. So lots of interesting possibilities here.
But again, we should caution that it`s also possible that DOJ simply wanted to reclaim these materials, because they were so detrimental to national security if they fell into the wrong hands. There will not be prosecutorial action as a result of this, but rather DOJ is concerned with controlling the spill of information and cleaning up any damage from it.
RUHLE: And again, I just want to underscore what we just heard that this search was not the government`s first request to get this information from a grand jury subpoena months ago. They requested Trump return this, he did not comply.
Yamiche, you cover Donald Trump for years and years take us inside his head, because his signature, no matter what he gets hit with, he punches back and he says he punches back twice as hard. Since this news broke a few hours ago about the potential nuclear documents, he himself has not said one single word on the social media platform he uses. What does that tell you about how backed into a corner he is?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR, NBC NEWS WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Stephanie, it`s a great question. What we saw they was Attorney General Merrick Garland really coming out and not just making a legal argument, but also in some ways a public relations. This was a narrative about this search word that was executed at Mar-a-Lago that was being co-opted, and really, and being written by Republicans and by President Trump. They were calling it a hoax. They were calling it a witch hunt. They were saying that it was part of the deep state, and even suggesting that the Department of Justice should be defunded and the FBI should be defunded.
So Merrick Garland came out today and wanted to really put punch back and wanting to really say at one point, he`s very clear about this. Faithful adherence to the law is the bedrock of our country is the bedrock of the Department of Justice. And he is say that no one is above the law and that he wants to carry this out.
So you hear now former President Trump, really I think, but not only is the ball in his court, but he`s now going have to answer about whether or not he wants to have the kind of transparency but he`s been claiming that he wants because we`ve seen Republicans circle the wagons.
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We`ve seen Republicans really come out in his defense and former President Trump`s defense, and really wanting to try to say anything and everything in order to say that this is wrong.
But what we don`t really see is whether or not former President Trump is actually going to say, yes, let`s look at these materials. Let`s make the argument. Let`s have this public discussion about why this search warrant was approved by a judge and why the search warrant was important and why of course, these items were taken from my home.
But because we haven`t really gotten the clear answer whether or not former President Trump is going to do that. He might be falling back on what we know is a tried and trued way that former President Trump and his allies sort of operate which is in conspiracy theories, often in lies, and often in making things up in order to serve their narrative. But I think Merrick Garland, he really did, I think, in some ways, feel the pressure on the public pressure. From reporting, the pressure inside the Department of Justice, to come out in front of cameras and say, this is why we had to take this step.
And also, here`s why this is connected to the sort of institutions and the values that we all cherish as Americans and whether the thing of course, he went out and made sure to really back up the people who are working in that building, he talks about the fact that they`re facing attacks, the FBI and Department of Justice officials, and he came on and call them patriotic.
So that was also Merrick Garland going to the rank and file and saying, I have your back on this. And what we hear from a President Trump attacking you. I want to make sure that there is someone in the public defending.
RUHLE: Katie, how can Trump and his lawyers do anything but comply tomorrow? Since Monday, we have heard from Mitch McConnell down, we need to know what Merrick Garland was doing, why he was doing we need transparency. They`ve been banging on every possible platform. So now Merrick Garland said, yes, open kimono. Let`s do this thing. On what ground can Trump possibly say No, let`s keep it between us?
BENNER: Well, I think that you`re speaking very logically. You would think that if all of the members of your party have come out to bat for you, and said that they want to see the document that you would then and be given an opportunity to see it that you would want that to happen.
However, from our reporting, we know that Donald Trump has decided he doesn`t want to do it. And part perhaps just because he doesn`t want to comply with the Justice Department, and he doesn`t want to do what Merrick Garland has said as possible. He is reaching out or his people, people in his camp are reaching out to various lawyers. They would like somebody who has strong ties to the Southern District of Florida, where this case is held before -- it is being heard before magistrate judge, you know, somebody who has some standing there who could argue that this is not a document that should be unsealed.
His team has until 3:00 p.m. tomorrow to make that argument for the magistrate, it is not yet decided whether or not he will even find the lawyer who can make that argument, though he is looking. And it is not clear under what grounds he would make that argument. But I would not be surprised if you push back and said that after all of this. He does not want the warrant unsealed.
RUHLE: Joyce since the day Merrick Garland was confirmed, people have been slamming him saying when are you going to take action? When are you going to do something? When we look back on all of this, well, Merrick Garland have been more valuable to the American people as the Attorney General than he would have on the Supreme Court.
VANCE: It`s such an interesting thought problem to work through. Of course, he would have been wonderful on the Supreme Court and might have broken some of the negative trajectory that we`ve seen on the court, certainly the recent abortion ruling.
But leaving that aside for a moment, and then just looking at Merrick Garland as the attorney general, in many ways, he was the best choice for this time period, because his articulated commitment is not only to doing the right thing, but also to doing it in the right way. And his very moderate approach has very careful, deliberate adherence to principle and procedure makes it difficult to place a claim of political witch hunt at his doorstep. That doesn`t mean that Trump and his cohort won`t try to do that. That`s obviously always their first line of attack.
But they`ve been outmaneuvered just beautifully this week. I don`t think that the Attorney General was trying to outmaneuver. I think he simply tried to do the right thing. And we`ve now ended up at this point where Trump early on was saying the FBI did everything wrong. And this was a witch hunt. And now Merrick Garland is saying, you know, as you said, Steph, open kimono, let me let me show you what`s in my hand of cards.
And this is a powerful moment that will be very difficult for Donald Trump to back away from publicly. He may involve that knee jerk reaction that he has to push back and refuse to do something just because someone wants him to do it, but it will plant seeds of doubt.
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And people who have been wondering about the truth of this search, you know, there were these fake allegations earlier this week that the FBI planted information. Merrick Garland, openness and commitment to process and good practices will do a lot to calm the country down.
RUHLE: Maybe one might push the big lie that it was planted because they knew the stuff that was down there was really, really bad. Yamiche Alcindor, Katie Benner, Joyce fans, thank you all so much, Clint watts. I`m not letting you leave just yet.
When we come back new reporting about the man who fired a nail gun at a Cincinnati FBI building while he was apparently posting online before the attack, that is causing a lot of concern.
And later, why senior Republicans have been warned by Trump allies to ease up in criticizing the FBI. Mara Gay and Michael Steele are here to discuss. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on a very important Thursday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:25:33]
RUHLE: We have exclusive new reporting tonight about the man who died in a confrontation with police after firing a nail gun at Cincinnati FBI building. Our own Ben Collins reports the subject appeared to post online about his desire to kill FBI agents shortly after Mar-a-Lago was searched.
Back with us tonight is Ben Collins, NBC News Senior Reporter, and Clint Watts still with us. Ben, what else do we know -- what about what else can you tell us about your reporting?
BEN COLLINS, NBC NEWS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, so this guy went to the Capitol on January 6, that`s the number one thing we know about this person. But he was very committed to this. He was a very committed truth social user, and had been using it extremely frequently over the last month or so.
In fact, a couple of days ago, he told everyone to explicitly go kill FBI agents on site, a user said they were going to report that to the FBI, and that -- and he eventually came back and said, Bring it on. So that`s how emboldened these extremists are right now on these forums, and they`re on pretty pedestrian, pro-Trump social forms that, you know, truth social, is Donald Trump owned. It is a website that anyone can access. This is not the dark web. This is the very civilian pro-Trump internet.
And if they can`t catch this guy who was at the Capitol on January 6, I don`t really know who they can`t get. By the way username was his actual name. So, if they can`t catch him, I really don`t know if it gives anybody.
RUHLE: So what are you seeing online now? Now this has happened today, anything changing, getting worse, getting better?
COLLINS: Well, here`s the deal. After all these attacks, they always say it`s a false flag. That was agitate for this, they tell each other to go and, you know, go kill Federal officers, go kickstart Civil War for us. And then the second that happens, they turn on that specific person. These people are dying, they believe for a cause. And their community immediately turns on them, saying that they`re a member of the FBI that we wouldn`t actually commit violence and all this stuff. They get themselves so worked up for the revolution, for violence.
And when it actually occurs, they never look inward, because it would destroy their persecution complex. They believe they`re constantly persecuted, and they can remain persecuted if they`ve never committed a terror attack like this one.
RUHLE: Clint, how worried are you that things are going to get more violent, the news doesn`t sound like it`s going to get better for the former guy anytime soon.
WATTS: Quite worried, Stephanie. It`s an election year, all domestic extremists put a lot of pressure on their own organizations on their selves to move forward. And when they can`t resolve in some sort of political victory or social victory for the cause, they oftentimes move to violence.
I think what`s consistent in all of this is we`re seeing this pattern of what`s known as stochastic terrorism happening over and over, meaning that a leader, a political leader, former president, they put out false information, conspiracies and actually make claims or encouraged people to mobilize or commit violence.
The problem is the target is known. But the attacker is not much like today, we don`t know who the individual is, it`s going to take up arms in trying to assault an FBI building or attacked FBI agents somewhere.
The other part that scares me a lot when we see one of these attacks is when these attacks are successful. And luckily, this one was not. But the more often that they`re successful, the more often people try and copy them. We see this with mass shootings quite a bit. This contagion effect, where one attack leads to one, two, sometimes three more attacks in a very short span, because there are many people considering this.
And when you have elected leaders around the country calling for the FBI, to the federal workers, that they`re supposed to be protecting funding, you know, providing budget for using them as the target. Well, they`re also setting up their supporters to go confront the best marksman in the United States of America, ironically.
So it`s a weird conundrum that I see in our political rhetoric right now that keeps spilling out. And I`m quite frightened that over the next two or three weeks, particularly as a search warrant debate continues, you`re going to see more attacks like this or attacks on other federal workers, because these individuals oftentimes are not very bright and easily confused.
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RUHLE: These federal workers who are just doing their jobs, and they`re doing really important work. Ben Collins, Clint Watts, thank you both so much for being here tonight. We come back. Heavy criticism of the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago from the right that we have been hearing for days. Might be quieting down soon. We`ll tell you why when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARA TRUMP, FORMER TRUMP 2020 SENIOR ADVISER: Breaking into at home and raiding the home of a former president of the United States. I mean that is a very big deal shocking by the way that they thought that they were going to do this in a very low key manner. And then to hear the Attorney General tried to tell us, well, we should be trusting the FBI.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:35:17]
RUHLE: Well, they did ask for the information in a subpoena months ago, but Trump didn`t comply. As Trump family members are critiquing over and over the FBI, The New York Times says others in the GOP are taking more measured approach writing this, some senior Republicans have been warned by allies of Mr. Trump, not to continue to be aggressive and criticizing the Justice Department and the FBI over the matter, because it is possible that more damaging information related to the search will become public.
So let`s discuss Mara Gay joins us, she is part of the New York Times editorial board, and an MSNBC contributor, and Michael Steele, former chairman of the Republican National Committee, and former Lieutenant Governor of Maryland.
Let`s start with the report that nuclear documents may be at the heart of all of this. I want to get both your reactions. Mara, let`s start with you?
MARA GAY, THE NEW YORK TIMES EDITOR BOARD: Well, it`s obviously extremely alarming, to say the least, we have a lot more reporting that will be unfolding. I think it`s very important that we wait for that reporting before we fully weigh in.
But I do want to just say, this is obviously a five alarm fire. And I think it`s extremely important that we talk about this, or the threat to national security and democracy that it is, rather than casting it in a partisan, you know, view as though this is some spat between Democrats and Republicans.
Obviously, that`s not what we`re doing here tonight. But I think that`s the concern. This is about protecting American democracy. And we have a lot of questions tonight, including what was Donald Trump doing with those documents? He knew he wasn`t supposed to have them. Why did he hold on to them? Even after there was a subpoena? And the DOJ requested those documents. Did he share them with somebody who would have used them against the United States? And if not, why did it take out regardless why did it take so long to retrieve them? So there are a lot of questions tonight, and none of them will help you sleep at night.
RUHLE: Michael?
MICHAEL STEELE, FORMER RNC CHAIRMAN: Yes, there are a lot of questions and Trump will not be forthcoming with any answers, nor will the people, his minions around him, as you just showed in the clip coming in. They`re either blindly ignorant, which probably in most cases they are because Trump doesn`t tell them everything he`s doing. He feeds them just enough to have them go out and peddle the lies that he wants them to peddle.
But more importantly, that inner circle, the Chief of Staff, the national security, individuals, who were in the administration, the last, you know, few weeks of Trump`s term, what were they`re saying, what did they know about this process? The way this operationalizes itself is very straightforward. If you`ve ever worked with Donald Trump or know anything about him, which I know you do, Stephanie, is people act because they want them -- he wants them to act. He doesn`t give a damn about process, protocol or procedures. He wants something. I want these to go with me, Mr. President, you can take these documents because of the Presidential Records Act. I don`t know Presidential Records Act from presidential recordings, give me what I want. Right?
And so you`re beat down you beat up and put upon to the point where you just give in that he wears people down. The problem for them is that when the subpoena shows up, or when the FBI comes knocking at the door, then what do you do and to Mara`s point, the nation is at risk at all times in that process. We don`t know who has access to those documents, just like we don`t know what the conversation was when he was in there with the Russian foreign minister in the Oval Office without anyone recording or documenting that conversation. Maybe then the plot was hatched to turn over information that he got his hands on. People say, Well, that`s a wild thing to say, well, I got a history here. And that`s the problem that we`ve faced going into this whole conversation.
RUHLE: Well, Michael, while we don`t know what is in any of those boxes, many have now been taken from Mar-a-Lago. I`ve only heard Republicans attacking the search. You talk to Republicans and Trump supporters every day. Have you spoken to anyone? Have you heard any voice who has explained why on earth Donald Trump would have any of these boxes to begin with?
STEELE: No, they know he`s shouldn`t have them. They absolutely knows he shouldn`t have them, but they don`t have a pair of between them to come out and to say that publicly.
[23:40:09]
Because they`re all afraid of a guy who, anyway, the reality is this, that Trump manipulates these situations. He creates the narratives that he wants to get out in front and have pushed. The important thing that happened today was the Justice Department and said, really? OK, you want to play that? Here you go. Put up a shut up.
And so now they`re sitting now in their counsel, we saw the clip of their lawyer him and, I don`t know, I haven`t talked to them, how to help you not talk to your client, the president of the United States who has not only been subpoenaed, but who has it -- had FBI agents in his home, and you not know what he has, and what they took.
So, this now becomes much more problematic because the Attorney General has said, we`re not going to play games here because of the national security interest that the U.S. has to get these documents back from you.
RUHLE: Mara, we actually have seen some pushback today from right wing media. And I want to share with Fox News host Steve Doocy said earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS HOST: The FBI with 35,000 members, you know, now they apparently are receiving a lot of specific field agents receiving specific death threats, because there are a number of people online and elsewhere who are demonizing the FBI, whatever happened to the Republican Party backing the blue --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Mara, how are Republicans squaring this behavior while insisting they`re pro law enforcement? They`re all about law and order national security?
GAY: Well, it`s a great question. Of course, it`s not about the crime for too many members of the right wing in America at this point, it`s about who they see as the criminal and who they see as someone who can do no wrong.
And clearly in that case, this is Donald Trump. He`s above the law. And in their view, I believe, and we have ample evidence and reporting to suggest this, that for some on the far right, Donald Trump`s America is the real America. And these are people who are deeply enmeshed in conspiracy theories in racism and xenophobia, often, and at this point, extremism and believe truly some of them, that they are saving the America they know, by, unfortunately, it looks like increasingly engaging in violence against the United States of America as it actually exists. And we shouldn`t like --
RUHLE: Then Michael, sorry, we should be -- Michael, then, if it does turn out that the former president had in his possession, nuclear documents, does every Republican member of Congress need to be asked in public on the record? Are you okay with that?
STEELE: Yes. A thousand times over. Are you prepared to take responsibility for what happened here? Do you -- are you prepared to be a part of the congressional hearings to look into what happened to those documents? Because they weren`t just sitting in a basement? And the reality of it is, yes, this is on everybody`s hand, not just the documents. And I don`t want to blow past that clip with Mr. Doocy. That`s a moment when Fox News is trying to, you know, push back on representative Scalise about well, I thought you guys about protecting the blue, but he didn`t say it this way. But you can hear what he was saying. You`re a people, people who support this president, your president Trump are out here threatening FBI agents.
So yes, not just the paper, but the actions of the people that they -- that they`re perpetuate -- allowing to perpetuate this noise in front of and the people who are responding to it, all of this, all of this has to stop somewhere.
You know, we -- the one thing that really tweaks me, is the fact that somehow we seemingly want to hold everybody else accountable but for the people who are accountable for doing the thing, are the ones who are actually creating the ish.
And so as a country and as citizens, I mean, it`s one thing for the three of us to say something every night, night after night trying to knock it into people`s head. Hey, folks, look at what`s happening to ass. Right? It`s something very different, it`s something very different when they recognize it and begin to realize this is your moment to hold these people accountable. You can still love Donald Trump, baby, invite him over for Thanksgiving dinner.
But if he`s done wrong, then you`ve got to hold them wrong for the wrong -- for what -- hold them accountable for the wrong he`s done and that`s the part that I think a lot of Americans don`t get with these folks is, how do you look past all of this?
[23:45:12]
RUHLE: Luckily, Michael and Mara are staying where we can continue saying to America Hey, folks, look what is happening to yo ass when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:50:00]
RUHLE: Breaking just minutes ago, Donald Trump posting on social media that he will not oppose the release of documents related to the search of Mar-a- Lago on Monday. So he`s basically saying, Yes, that search warrant make it public. Mara Gay, I turned to you first. What do you think?
GAY: Listen, I think it`s a -- it`s important moment to wait and see what is in these documents, or what at least is released to the public and allow the reporting to unfold. I will say, though, as Michael said earlier, you know, this former president has a history of trying to normalize behavior that is not normal, and is actually quite dangerous the Republic.
So I think we should be on high alert for that. Simply saying, Hey, I have nothing to hide, because I`m committing a crime in public is not actually a defense for committing that crime. We don`t know what was committed here yet. But I`m just going to throw that out there.
RUHLE: Michael, also, it`s not 3:00 tomorrow. And he did not expressly say I agreed to make the search warrant public. So we could get tangled in some words here.
STEELE: We could get tangled in some words here. But let`s just step back and just take note of how beautifully played the chessboard was by the Attorney General. He played it expertly because at the end of the day, after two days of listening to Republicans scream out the Yazoo about, you know, what was in this, what, you know, what did you go over? What did you want, and everybody`s role, just release it, just release it, and Trump would release the search warrant, right. And he was like, Okay, we`re going to go release a search warrant.
Now to come back and go, Well, we really don`t want to release the search warrant. We`re just -- we`re not going to do that doesn`t work well with the narrative that they`ve been pushing out there.
So they`re now scrambling to figure out how to Mara`s point, how they tell a different story about what`s going to be about war it that we`re all now going to see. And everybody`s going to go, Oh, my God, but he`s going to have a response ready. He`s going to be prepared for that. And to Mara`s point, you can`t get suckered into the other story that he`s creating, because he`s already told us two or three to get to this point.
So now we just stay focus like a laser on what the Attorney General is putting in front of the country. Stay focus like a laser on a like a laser or why the Attorney General is putting this in front of the country. And all this clamoring you hear from the other guys, just let it go.
RUHLE: Mara, to that point, Donald Trump ended his statement talking about his poll numbers in some bizarro way, is he going to get his way? His number one goal always, is to be in the news. And he is all over the news tonight.
GAY: Well, it`s interesting, right? Because, you know, we started this segment and this hour by discussing the fact that America`s nuclear security had been compromised. And now we`re talking about Donald Trump`s poll numbers. So Donald Trump is an expert at that. First, we have no choice because, you know, this is newsworthy, but I think we do need to stay focused, as Michael said, on what the actual story is here. And the actual story, I believe, is that the former president of the United States has compromised the security of the United States. And we need to understand how that happened, and how he`ll be held accountable.
RUHLE: And to any of those sitting Republican lawmakers, please note, you have an open invitation to join me right here any night and answer the question, if in fact, there were nuclear documents at Mar-a-Lago for all of these months. Are you OK with that? And if I`m out sick, Michael Steele will ask the question for me. Mara Gay, Michael Steele, thank you so, so much.
Coming up the latest from a group that knows just how to get inside former guy`s head and not in a good way when THE 11TH HOUR continues.
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[23:58:11]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICK MULVANEY, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I didn`t even know there was a safer at Mar-a-Lago when I was the Chief of Staff for 15 months. So this would be someone who was handling things on day-to-day who knew where documents were so that would be somebody very close inside the president. My guess is there`s probably six or eight people who have that kind of information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, a mole at Mar-a-Lago, like all why the mob bosses loyalty is very important to Donald Trump. Yet he never seems to demonstrate any himself. Anyhow over the years, Trump has raged against so called leakers demanded swift revenge against anyone he thinks has crossed him. So after reports of a possible FBI informant lurking within Trump`s nist (ph), the Lincoln Project went to work. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who was it, Donald? Who gave you up to the Feds? Squealed. Who told them what you kept in the safe at Mar-a-Lago? No, not that stuff. The classified documents. 15 boxes of Top Secret files.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s naughty Donald.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And illegal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You broke the law.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wonder the Department of Justice and the FBI came knocking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re coming for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But who leaked? Who sold you out? Was it Jared? Ivanka?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Backing away from you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don Jr?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your own son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eric?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you even care?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Melania?
UNIDENTIFIFED FEMALEL: She wants to escape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mark Meadows?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who did it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All your old Washington friends are talking to the 1/6 committee and the Grand Jury.
UNIDETIFIED FEMALE: They weren`t your friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe it was someone closer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who could it be?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone you trusted. Now you`re the first president to have his home raided by the FBI. It`s bad Donald.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your father would be ashamed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And there`s no one you can trust.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There never was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[00:00:02]
RUHLE: Yikes, that`ll give you nightmares. The Lincoln Project once again trying to get deep inside the former guy`s head. That will take us off this evening.
And on that note, I wish you all a very good and safe night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of NBC News, thanks for staying up late with us and I will see you at the end of tomorrow.