Summary
Interview with Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA). Interview with Rep. Mikie Sherrill (D-NJ)
Transcript
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: That is "ALL IN" on this Wednesday night.
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thank you, my friend.
And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.
Let`s get right to it tonight. There is a lot to get into.
Tomorrow, the January 6th investigation is going to hold their third public hearing. It starts at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. We`ll be doing a primetime recap of that here on MSNBC tomorrow night, starting at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
But tomorrow`s hearing, whether you watch it live or watch our recap at night, or both, you should know it`s going to focus on the efforts to pressure Vice President Mike Pence. Pressure him into the idea that he personally should refuse -- should have refused to count the electoral votes. And he should thereby have thrown out the results of the presidential election on January 6th at the U.S. Capitol.
That, I mean, bottom line -- that`s why Trump called for a rally in Washington, D.C. on January 6th. A rally he said would be wild. That`s why he then told the people who showed up, when he called them to D.C., that today, that they should march down to the capitol.
What was happening at the Capitol at that moment? Trump hoped, Trump was trying to engineer, that Mike Pence would reject the votes of the Electoral College and thereby throw the election results out, through the United States government in the chaos, thus allowing for the overthrow of the U.S. government and for Trump to stay in power, even though he had been voted out.
Now, the vice chair of the January 6th investigation, Liz Cheney, put out a statement last night, which we covered here on last night show, in which he said, President Trump was told that any such effort to get pence to do that would be illegal. He was told it was illegal, but he did it anyway. We expect to see a supporting evidence for that claim at tomorrow`s hearing.
Tonight, ABC News published this photo, for the first time, showing Vice President Pence and his family, hiding out in Pence`s ceremonial office on January 6th. This is just off the Senate floor. ABC News says this is when the pro-Trump mob had already broken into the Capitol. It`s just after pence was evacuated and was rushed off the floor of the Senate and hidden in this nearby office.
We know, of course, that the mob did get right on to the Senate floor, they went through papers and senators desks. One of the January 6 defendants, a convict actually, was shown at trial to have left a threat for Mike Pence on the dais, from where Pence had been doing the electoral count.
But in this photo, according to ABC News, Pence had just been evacuated off the Senate floor to this office. The woman you see on the right side of the photo is reportedly his wife, Second Lady Karen Pence. She is hurriedly yanking shut the curtains in the room so that the mob would not be able to see in and see that Mike Pence and his family were in there.
As we know, the mob was screaming that day, hang Mike Pence. At tomorrow`s hearing, there will be live witness testimony from Mike Pence`s chief counsel, his top legal adviser, as well as from conservative former federal appeals court judge Michael Luttig. Michael Luttig played a crucial role in stopping the pot from succeeding on January 6th, stopping the Mike Pence part of the plot from succeeding, when he released a public statement, basically alerting the country to the fact that they were pressuring Pence to personally throw out the electoral vote during the count on January 6th.
Judge Luttig stated in very clear terms that Pence had no authority to do that, that it would be illegal for him to do that. Judge Luttig is very, very influential, particularly on the right. He`s a very high profile, very conservative judge. People like Senator Ted Cruz and Trump lawyer John Eastman. They were both clerks to Judge Luttig when he was on the bench.
Him testifying tomorrow about his role in stopping this plot is going to be kind of a heavyweight moment, again, particularly, for people on the right, because he holds such sway there. But also -- I said we have a lot to get to, boy, it has been a day -- today, on the eve of that next hearing tomorrow, which should be very dramatic, we had just a head snapping revelation from the January 6th investigation. And it was about basically, the other people, the other lawmakers besides Mike Pence, who were specifically being hunted by the pro-Trump mob during the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy! Oh, Nancy! Nancy -- where are you, Nancy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: That is some of that weirdest and most harrowing, unnerving footage from the attack, to this day. And there is a bunch of it.
[21:05:00]
And that`s one example of it, but we`ve got a lot of it. These guys walking through the halls of Congress, banging on doors, yelling, Nancy, Nancy! They`re looking for Nancy Pelosi. What do you think they were going to do if they found her?
They did at least have some idea of how to try to find her. They never got their hands on her personally. But they did loot Pelosi`s office, trashed it, took stuff.
Well, today, we finally got an answer from the January 6th investigation. Some of the previously unanswered questions about the mob that day, looking for individual members of Congress, trying to hunt down individual lawmakers they wanted to target. And the answers we got today where the worst possible answers. We have been looking at this, we`ve been asking questions about this for a long time, since right after the attack including multiple segments on the show talking about it.
But now, as of today, the whole country, looks like we finally know. It started, for us -- we first go word of this worst possible scenario, as I say right after (AUDIO GAP) federal prosecutor, she made just a hair curling public allegation about other members of congress, about Republican members of Congress. And it was just very, very, worrying. Again, one week after January 6th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Not only do I intend to see that the president is removed an ever run for office again and never has access to classified material -- I also intend to see that those members of Congress who abetted him -- those members of Congress who groups coming through the Capitol that I saw on January 5th, a reconnaissance for the next day, those members of Congress that incited this violent crowd, those members of Congress that attempted to help our president undermine our democracy -- I am going to see that they are held accountable. And, if necessary, ensure that they don`t serve in Congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: That was January 12th, 2021. Mikie Sherrill, congresswoman, saying that members of Congress had groups coming through the Capitol complex, on January 5th, doing reconnaissance for the next day, presumably so that they be oriented to the layout of the Capitol, so presumably they would know how to find their way around, how to potentially find who they were looking for.
Mikie Sherrill and 33 other members of Congress soon wrote to the Capitol Police and the House sergeant at arms, providing more detail about what they had seen and what they were worried about, and they asked for an investigation.
Congresswoman Sherrill told us here on the show, January 13th, one week after the attack, that she had seen tours in the house office building specifically, the day before the attack, and that was shocking to her at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERRILL: I was really shocked when I got into the House office building and saw these groups inside. And what was so shocking is it actually brought, as you mentioned -- visitors are not allowed in the Capitol complex. You know, since March, since the start of COVID, that has been shut down. All tours are shut down. That was during the last Congress, and what`s reiterated on January 3rd, in the new Congress, that there would be no tours allowed, even towards given by members.
And so, the only reason you would have a visitor is on official business. So, to see these groups around the Capitol complex was really striking. And given what we know, the next day, what happened, it`s really shocking that those ties were made and it was so odd to see them that my chief of staff called the sergeant at arms to say, what is going on? And he reiterated, the only way these people could have gotten into the Capitol complex, was with the member -- or that member`s staff. And we now know that those violent groups that attacked the Capitol complex had inside knowledge of the Capitol grounds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: So, Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, with support from 33 other members of congress, she raised this big red flag, right after January 6th, saying, inexplicable tours of the Capitol complex the day before the attack, when tours were not allowed, were nevertheless being led or facilitated by Republican members of Congress and their staff. And, in her estimation, those tours appear to be reconnaissance for the attack the following day, and may have had something to do with the fact that a lot of the people in the crowd seemed suspiciously well oriented to their surroundings once they got inside the Capitol complex.
Well, what happened after that is that Republicans in Congress said they looked into it. They checked it out and it turns out they were sure there were no tours given of the Capitol complex the day before January 6th. Republicans said they looked at all of the security footage from January 5th and wanted to assure everyone that the whole allegation was bunk, there was no one who led any tour of the Capitol complex on January 5th the day before the attack.
[21:10:05]
One Republican staffer described the supposed review in detail to "The Hill" newspaper telling "The Hill" that the Republicans watch every second of security camera footage, from inside the Capitol complex January 5th, and that, quote there were no tours, no large groups, no one with MAGA hats on, there`s nothing in there remotely fitting the depiction in Mikie Sherrill`s letter.
Congressman Barry Loudermilk of Georgia went so far as to file a former ethics complaint against Mikie Sherrill, claiming that she was the real criminal for having made this false allegation, falsely claim that any member of Congress led any tours of the Capitol Congress on January 5th, how dare she suggests such a thing. She`s the one that ought to be investigated for falsely suggesting that.
Well, then, last month, the January 6 investigators stuck a fork on that pretty definitively. The sent a letter to Congressman Barry Loudermilk of Georgia saying, actually, sir, it appears to be you. Not only was there at least one to our lead through the Capitol complex the day before the Capitol attack. But you sir, you let it.
Congressman then stop denying that there hadn`t been any tours on January 5th. He finally did admit that yes, he led one but it was totally innocent. It was not related to the January 6th attack the following day at all.
He said it was just prejudice against his Georgia constituents, because they were wearing red MAGA hats when he gave them their tour. He said he would refuse to answer questions about it from January 6 investigation.
Well, since then, it has emerged in the seditious conspiracy case against one of the pro Trump paramilitary groups that led to the breach of the Capitol. It has emerged in that trial, that advance planning for the Capitol attack included a written document that was titled 1776 returns. That described pro-Trump militants, getting the mob to take over and occupy specific buildings in and around the Capitol complex. The United States Supreme Court was one, also the Senate office buildings and the House office buildings.
That document was just published in a court filing today. So, we can now see how it lays it out. Overall goal: fill the building with patriots and communicate our demands, maintain control of our select few but crucial buildings. We need as many people as possible inside these buildings. They gave a lot of the buildings they want to occupy.
They say, for CNN, they just want to egg the doorway, okay. But then they want to occupy the Supreme Court building. They want to occupy the three office buildings where senators have their offices. And then they want to occupy the three buildings where members of the House have their offices, Cannon, Longworth, and Rayburn House office buildings. Those are the targeted buildings for the takeover on January 6.
And then they provide these convenient maps, circling all those buildings so the mob would be able to find them all on January 6. The plan was very detailed. It called for a lead, a backup lead agent in case the league got arrested.
Those folks were supposed to get inside the building, first thing, and dressed innocuously, dressed in suits so they blend in, but then they would facilitate letting the mob swarm in. There`s one section of the 1776 plan, quote, execution, ensure crowd outside is full and ready to go. Have leads in seconds open the doors for the crowd to enter.
This might include causing trouble near the front doors to distract guards who may be holding the doors off. It could also mean pulling the fire alarm, which requires exits to be open. The goal is to ensure there`s an entry point for the masses, to rush the building.
Again, the buildings they wanted to rush, and fill with patriots or for the most part the office buildings, or members of Congress and members of the Senate have their offices. The targeted buildings, this is not for the U.S. Capitol building itself, which is the thing with the House chamber, and the Senate chamber the big dome, the big rotunda. This is not for that. This is for the office buildings where members of Congress have their officers.
In the seditious conspiracy case against members of the Proud Boys, this document had previously been described by prosecutors in the indictment before today, that just today was included in a public facing filing, so we can all see it for the first time.
And if that where the basic plan, right, either a plan that was circulated and agreed to among the attackers, or if this was just a basic idea of the plan, that January 6 attackers may have used about privately. I mean, if this was the approach that we`re going to take, of course, it would be handy to have a working knowledge of the layout, and interior of the office buildings where members of Congress have their offices, right? If you want to target individual members of Congress, to go menace them, to go terrorize them, potentially to hurt them, it will be helpful to have that familiarity with where they have their offices.
[21:15:03]
Well, today, new news. It follows a strange letter released earlier today from the chief of the U.S. Capitol police that says the U.S. Capitol police looked into this question of whether they were tours the day before the attack. And yeah, there was a tour led by Congressman Barry Loudermilk, but they`re pretty sure nothing suspicious happened in that tour, since the tour didn`t go into the Capitol building itself, which it didn`t go into the building with the big rotunda, and the House and Senate chambers.
I say this with a strange letter from the U.S. Capitol because who cares whether or not Barry Loudermilk`s tour went to that specific part of the Capitol complex. This is a strange assertion, from the Capitol police that the tour wasn`t suspicious, because it didn`t go into the Capitol building itself.
It`s like if you`re investigating an arson, you said, yeah, we do have doorbell camera footage of a guy standing on the front stab holding a gas can and lit, open Zippo. But we didn`t see him set that front door on fire, so probably that guy didn`t set the rest of the house on fire. He was just passing by. No sign of potential arson here. You`re clear.
That`s somewhat strange letter about the Loudermilk tour being okay, because it didn`t go into the Capitol building, that came from the Capitol police chief a couple days ago. Congressman Barry Loudermilk responded by sort of crowing loudly that he`d been exonerated in this matter.
But then today, the January 6 investigators released this, released video and still images and Republican Congress and battery ladder melt in fact leading back group, on an hours long tour, of all three House office buildings on January 5th. Hours, in all three office buildings where members of Congress have their offices.
And one member the group strangely takes pictures of things that tourists don`t typically take pictures of. Security checkpoints and hallways and stairways. We know that members of the torch up this picture of the office nameplate outside Jerry Nadler`s office, also this picture of what appears to be a directory listing of Democratic members from the judiciary committee including their photos.
Multiple members of this tour group led by Congressman Loudermilk apparently photographed the entrance of a tunnel that leads from the Rayburn House office building right into the United States Capitol. Why are they all taking pictures of the tunnel?
The committee says that multiple participants from Barry Loudermilk`s tour, including the man who is taking photos of the security checkpoints and the hallways, January 6 investigation says that that man and others from the tour then didn`t participate in the January 6 events the following day. In fact, the man that was taking the odd pictures of the security checkpoints, in the hallways, and the stairways, according to the investigation, he shot this video for Facebook Live on January 6. And which interacts the person who he calls, our fearless leader, the man shows of how he modified his flagpole to pull it appears to be something sharp at the tip of it, or maybe he`s just sharp in the tip of the pole itself to use it like a spear.
The man says it`s for a certain person. And the man shooting the video, the man from Congressman Loudermilk`s tour then says, yeah, that`s for somebody special. Any minds jabbing it into someone.
The man from Loudermilk`s tour then says on the video, that they`re coming for Jared Nadler, he hates Jared Nadler`s name, Congressman Nadler, named him a couple different times. He says they`re coming for Jared Nadler, and Chuck Schumer, and AOC, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and also, Nancy Pelosi. He seems to be threatening Pelosi, he`s going to tear out our hair if he gets his hand on her.
This was the guy who been on Barry Loudermilk`s tour the previous day shooting security checkpoints and hallways, and stairwells, inside the buildings that housed the offices of members of Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has begun, Washington monument, Washington, D.C.
Say hello to Facebook.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, what`s going on, man. Glad to see you bro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is our fearless leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Check out the flag of me, guys. See it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s for a certain person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right. That`s for somebody special, somebody special.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We are basically at the Capitol, with probably close to 2 million true American patriots.
[21:20:08]
They are swarming and converging mainly from Constitution Avenue, but from all around saying, there is no escape Pelosi. Schumer, Nadler, we`re coming for you. We are coming in like white on rice for Pelosi, Nadler, Schumer -- even you, AOC. We are coming to take you out. And pull you out by your hairs.
How about that, Pelosi? Might as well make yourself another appointment. I get down with you, you are going to need a shine up on top of that bald head.
(INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: The man in the brown suit, we see leading those folks around the house office buildings, appears to be Congressman Barry Loudermilk himself.
The implication of the released from this January 6th investigation today is that members of the January 6th mob, including this man, who got help in his task, knowingly or unknowingly, from Congressman Barry Loudermilk -- they apparently prepped and did reconnaissance not just generically for targeting of the capital the next day. But for knowing their way around the buildings, we are members of Congress have their actual offices.
In this guy`s case, based on his comments the next day, that was apparently so as to find a menace and potentially attack individual members. He was looking for, the next day, after having -- thanks to Congressman Loudermilk.
Then photograph the name played outside of Nadler`s office on January 5, after Congressman Loudermilk`s tour, shows him there. And then the next day, he`s marching towards the Capitol, screaming repeatedly about how he is going to get Jerry Nadler.
So, what does this mean? I mean, number one, it means that Democrats, led by Mikie Sherrill, who raised the alarm that this had happened on January 5th, they were apparently right.
Number two, interestingly, the committee has apparently interviewed the guy and has photos from his phone that he took during this tour of the House office buildings on January 5th. That`s interesting. We should know that it appears that the committee, therefore, knows who he is. They have identified him and indeed contacted him. But we should also note that as far as we know he has not been arrested or charged with anything related to the attack.
Number three, I think we have to ask, what the heck with the Capitol police letter sent earlier this week? Saying, yeah, yeah, we all looked into it, it`s inside to us. They said explicitly in their letter that the tour did not go into the tunnels between the office buildings and the Capitol and not go into the capitol itself.
Well, the committee shows that in fact, the tour includes showing off the tunnels. And that members of the tour taking pictures of the entrances to the tunnels, which is what you would need to get from those office buildings into the Capitol building.
Did the capitol police actually look into this? And why did they screw this up so badly in their public statement about this event?
But finally -- and perhaps most importantly -- this is new information about the deliberately arguing of individual members of Congress on January 6th. We previously had video of dudes yelling, Nancy, Nancy, while they hunted for Nancy Pelosi`s office. We have course have all seen the haunting footage of huge numbers of people in the crowd saying, hang Mike Pence, hang Mike Pence.
We have the fact that the rioters, in fact, we`re able to find one of the offices for Nancy Pelosi. And that office was, in fact, ransacked. But now we`ve got this new video where, as the dude is advancing on the capital capitol he`s talking to a guy with a spear made out of the flagpole, about how they are going to use that on the certain someone. Then they name individual all makers that he says he is coming for -- Pelosi, Nadler, Schumer, Ocasio-Cortez.
And yes, in the abstract, maybe that sounds like a weird guy fantasizing while he stomps around on the National Mall.
[21:25:05]
But now, with context, we know that that same guy, the previous day, with help from a Republican congressman was apparently -- apparently -- casing the office building, where the members in fact had their offices, documenting the stairways, the hallways, the security checkpoints and how you might use that underground tunnel to get from that office building into the Capitol itself, taking pictures of Nadler`s office door, potentially mapping the way to get to congressional offices, and also into the Capitol.
Thanks for that, Congressman Barry Loudermilk. Thanks for that very much.
Why did you deny ever giving that tour until you are caught for it? And what did you know about the intentions of the people who participated in that tour, when, again, the Capitol was closed to tours? And what did you think, the following day, on January 6th, given what happened at the capitol, when you knew that you had given the tour the previous day? And when Democratic members of Congress raised concerns about those reconnaissance tours that had been given, why didn`t you go to the police then, sir? Why didn`t you go to the committee to talk about this now?
Joining us now is California congresswoman, a member of the January 6 investigation, Zoe Lofgren.
Congresswoman Lofgren, it`s a pleasure to have you with us tonight. Thanks for being here.
REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Sure. Good to be here, Rachel.
MADDOW: Let me just give you a chance to correct me if I explained any of that wrongly. That`s how I understand it. We`ve been following this for more than a year now.
Did I get any of that the wrong way around?
LOFGREN: No, I think you`ve got it right. Rodney Davis is the ranking member of the House Administration Committee that I chair. He and Mr. Loudermilk also serve on the House Administration Committee and demanded the release of footage and claim that they had seen all of the videos. And there was nothing there, no one with a MAGA hat.
When we found the videos of Mr. Loudermilk leading a tour, we did ask him to come in. We didn`t accuse him of anything. We just asked him to come in and talk to us. And he refused to do it.
And then, of course, we got this weird letter from the Capitol police chief and we thought, well, we are going to show him this video, Mr. Loudermilk privately, and then ask him about it. So now, he has a copy of it, as does the rest of the public. We would still like to hear from him.
MADDOW: Are we right to surmise -- am I right to surmise tonight -- that you any other investigators have confirmed the identity of the person who is seen on that tour, taking pictures in the House office buildings and that is the same person who is heard making those threats against members of Congress at the Capitol attack the next day? You know for sure that that`s the same person?
LOFGREN: That`s my understanding, yes.
MADDOW: OK. Congressman Loudermilk said that these were constituents for Georgia. They were not members of the mob. You have confirmed that one member of the tour participated in the events of January 6th.
How does this fit into the overall investigation that you and your colleagues are conducting? I think when Mikie Sherrill and colleagues raised these concerns at the beginning, I think it sent a chill down the collective spine of the nation, with the idea that some members of Congress might knowing have abetted people who are participating in the January 6th events, in trying to hunt down individual members of Congress and menace more effectively.
That`s the -- that`s the scary implication here. Is that, in fact, what you believe you have stumbled upon?
LOFGREN: Well, we don`t know that. We have not accused Representative Loudermilk of that. We said we wanted to talk to him. That he won`t talk to us is concerning to me.
Obviously, he led a tour -- I mean, they took video of the tunnel from the Rayburn building to the Capitol. That was the same tunnel the next day I was evacuated from that tunnel, from the House floor -- they took video of the stairwell that lead into the ways and means committee room, where 100 or so members of Congress were sheltered in place, after the evacuation from the Capitol. So, we would like to know about this, and to say, actually, filed an ethics complaint -- that was bizarre, when he knew he himself led a tour.
And just remember that the Capitol was completely close to the public because of the COVID. One of the Capitol police told me yesterday that they were told that they couldn`t even bring their own families into the Capitol complex, it was completely close.
[21:30:05]
MADDOW: California congresswoman, member of the January 6 investigation, Zoe Lofgren, we look forward to tomorrow`s hearing. Thanks for helping us understand the committee`s work. We appreciate you being here, ma`am.
LOFGREN: Thanks a lot.
MADDOW: All right, coming up here next, we are going to be joined by Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, who was the first person to have raised the alarm about this event. She has been vindicated by subsequent revelations. She`s going to join us live here exclusively, next.
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[21:34:34]
MADDOW: Today when the January 6 investigation released shocking video of a Republican congressman named Barry Loudermilk, leading an hours long tour of all the house office blew the day before the Capitol attack, a tour, it turns out, for multiple people who participated in the events of January 6 the next day -- well, that was a vindication of sorts for Democratic Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey.
It was Congresswoman Sherrill who raised the alarm more than a year ago, right after the attack, what she said she saw Republican members of Congress leading towards like that for people who then participate in the attack on the Capitol the following day.
[21:35:09]
Congresswoman Sherrill has been rabidly criticized by Republicans including Congressman Loudermilk, for having raised these allegations, they claim these allegations were definitely false. We now know what she said was absolutely, and specifically true.
Tonight, Congresswoman Sherrill has released this statement that says in part, quote, I`ve served our country as a federal prosecutor, and I know how important is to investigating collect evidence and lend that process when its course. The video evidence released today by the bipartisan January 6 committee, combined with the constantly shifting narrative and misdirection from Representatives Barry Loudermilk and Rodney Davis call into question their dedication to our common oath as members of Congress.
Joining us now live is Democratic Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey.
Congresswoman, thank you for making time to be here tonight.
REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Thanks for having me, Rachel.
MADDOW: I just spoke with your colleague Zoe Lofgren, who`s a member of the January 6 investigation. I`m going to ask you the same question I asked her, which is, have I misstated any of this? Did I get any of this wrong? Or is there any big piece of this that our viewers should understand that I haven`t explained?
SHERRILL: No, Rachel. This is as you said a story you`ve been following really from the beginning of it. And I think you`ve tracked it quite well.
MADDOW: What is your reaction today to this video being released by the January 6 investigation? When I saw this today, my thought was this is what Congresswoman Sherrill saw. This is what concerned her.
Was the video they released today in fact what you saw, and will cause you to set off those red flags?
SHERRILL: Well, Rachel, you know, I`ve talked to people about the fact that as a Navy helicopter pilot, we`ve been through training to recognize suspicious thing, as a former federal prosecutor, of course, I believe deeply that if you see things like this, if there`s an investigation going on, you have to come forward, it`s your duty to come forward to talk about this stuff.
But, you know, as I was talking about how odd it was that the Capitol complex was closing that was visitor there, as they were doing odd things, they were places they should have not been, acting in a suspicious way, especially in light of the attack on January 6.
I think what this video shows, is yes, what I was talking about. In fact, quite a few members have come out and former members as well say, this is not what tours look like. These are not places you take tours. And that`s why I was highlighting, and that`s what I wanted the January 6 committee to investigate. And, certainly, we see some of the results of that investigation today.
MADDOW: Do you know if there were more tours like this, either tour is led by Congressman Loudermilk or others led by other members?
SHERRILL: That is not the only group that I saw. You know, I saw groups down there, and we`ve asked the January 6 committee to do is understand what those people were doing in the Capitol complex. That`s what we asked really the sergeant in arms to get to the bottom of what was going on. And I think we`ve seen the January 6 committee working to do just that.
And you know, Rachel, I mentioned as a helicopter got a, federal prosecutor, but I don`t think it takes that to come forward, in an investigation. When the Capitol has been attacked, when the former president tried to stay in office despite the will of the American people, if you have evidence in that situation, if you`ve taken an oath to the Constitution of the United States, we have a duty to come forward.
I think what`s so, remain shocking to me, is the constantly shifting narrative, the misdirection of Representative Loudermilk and Representative Davis and then to see this video, to see exactly what he was doing, and knew that he had done. And his failure to come forward, his failure to talk to the committee, I really think is again, just really shocking to me.
MADDOW: As you said in your statement tonight, it calls into question their dedication to our common oath as members of Congress. That`s -- that`s a serious way to put it, but I understand your reasoning.
Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, Democrat of New Jersey, I really appreciate your time tonight as we continue to stay on this story. Who knew it would evolve like this. Thank you.
SHERRILL: Thank you, Rachel. I appreciate it.
MADDOW: All right. We got much more ahead tonight. Stay with us.
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[21:44:14]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICKIE MARQUARDT, OTERO COUNTY COMMISSIONER: I have huge concerns with these voting machines. I really do. I don`t -- I just don`t, in my heart, think that they can`t be manipulated.
When I certify stuff that I don`t know is right, I feel like I`m being dishonest because in my heart, I don`t know if it is right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: That`s a county commissioner, one of the Republican county commissioners from Otero County, New Mexico, this week explaining that she knows in her heart that the election results from her county aren`t legitimate, they can never be legitimate because there`s voting machines.
Minutes later, she in the other two members of the county commission, there`s three of them, all three of them are Republicans, the three of them voted unanimously that they won`t certify the results of the primary election that happened this month, in their county. If the votes aren`t certified, because these county officials refused to certify them, that raises the prospect that all the votes count -- all the votes cast in that county, just won`t count, every vote in the county will just be thrown out, people in that county will effectively no longer have the right to vote? All because those three Republicans know in their hearts, the results must be wrong, because they know the voting machines are secretly connected to the internet, and can be hacked by Chinese, Italian, satellite, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, ghost of Hugo Chavez, space lasers, you know.
Well, now, New Mexico secretary of state, statewide official in charge of elections in New Mexico, she has stepped in. She has asked the state Supreme Court to order the Otero County, to certify the election results. The secretary wrote today, quote, break our lives and you will be held accountable. That was actually something she posted last night, she filed a lawsuit, and boy, this is moving fast.
Today, the Supreme Court in fact ordered the Otero County commissioners of any to certify the election results in their county, by the end of the week, by Friday. And that sets up an amazing scheduling conflicts, because one of those three commissioners, the guy in the hat here, seen with President Trump in the Oval Office, he has some wanted to be this Friday, specifically he needs to be all the way across the country and Washington, D.C., for a courting at which he will be sentence for his conviction for trespassing at the capitol during the January 6th attack, a conviction for which he faces up to a year in prison.
As for the other county commissioners in Otero County, New Mexico, the woman who knows in her art that the election (AUDIO GAP) when she was asked this week about the possibility that a court would intervene, and order them to certify the election, she laughed at the suggestion according to "The Associated Press". She said quote, and so that want? They`re going to send us to the pokey?
Well, are they? They might. I mean that is technically a possibility. The New Mexico secretary of state is trying to wrangle this thing into the realm of the legal right now. She`s going to join us here live, next.
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MADDOW: As we are ready for the next hearing of the January 6 investigation tomorrow, we`ll have a primetime recap of that tomorrow night here at 8:00 p.m. Eastern here on MSNBC.
The consequences of former President Trump`s claims, that he will respect election results, the consequence of that continue to be felt all around the country, just all over the place. The latest, we are just consequences happening right now in the great state of New Mexico, where in one county, the three Republican county commissioners are refusing to certify the election results in their county from this month`s primaries. The commissioners haven`t raised any actual concerns about anything going wrong and those elections, they just don`t want to certify the election results because they don`t feel good about it.
New Mexico secretary of state stepped in, and brought a lawsuit to the state Supreme Court yesterday. Today, the Supreme Court ordered those county commissioners that they need to certify the election results by Friday. One of the commissioners already suggested that, she`ll laugh of any such order from a court saying, want to go to put me in prison.
The question is, what does happen if they continue to refuse to obey the state Supreme Court, and what happens the votes of all those people who voted in New Mexico?
Joining us now is New Mexico secretary of state, Maggie Toulouse Oliver.
Madam Secretary, thank you so much for your time tonight. It`s a pleasure to have you here.
MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER, NEW MEXICO SECRETARY OF STATE: I`m happy to be here, Rachel. Thank you.
MADDOW: Have explained any of this wrong? I`m a little bit new to this story. I`ve been reading a local coverage and that`s pretty much how I understand it. But tell me if I`ve missed anything important.
OLIVER: Now, it`s a very cut and dry situation. There`s mandatory duty that the county commission has to review the results, to report from the county clerk from our primary election last week. They`re welcome to ask questions.
There`s even some limited authority for them to bring in a precinct board, ask them questions, if there`s any concerns about the accuracy of the results. Of course, they`ve chosen to do none of that. And they base their unlawful action, not to certify the election on -- as you have accurately summarized, your feelings about the election machines. And that is not within the context of the law, within the scope of their authority, and, quite frankly, you know, I think that we`re looking at is a concern for a Democratic, a breakdown of democracy, a breakdown of the process moving forward if they don`t do the right thing. And what the Supreme Court has ordered them to do.
MADDOW: So, the Supreme Court has ordered them to certify these election results, we don`t yet know what the response for the commissioner will be to that. I will note that you raised the prospect, in the press release announcing that you`re taking this to the Supreme Court over this matter, you raise the prospect that there could potentially be a criminal referral to the state attorney generals office in terms of these county commissioners violating their oath of office.
With one of these commissioners sort of laughed off the prospect of complying with a court order here, saying what do you going to do, put me in prison, I think she thought that was a ridiculous prospect, but it sounds like that might not be a ridiculous prospect.
OLIVER: I don`t think it is ridiculous. We are making that referral to the attorney general, this commission has taken a number of unlawful actions over the course of the last couple weeks.
[21:55:05]
They took a vote which is ultimately symbolic, but to ban the state certified voting systems in their county, they took a vote to remove certified monitor container to receive absentee ballots, or mail-in ballots, which is also counter to state law. They order were attempting to order a hand recount of the results and none of those are provided for in state law.
Now, mind you, the irony of this whole situation is that if they certify the results, there are a number of processes that can then take place, and particularly for candidates who may have questions about the outcome of the election. We can undertake recounts. We can undertake re-checks on the voting system.
But unless, and until the commission and their capacity as the canvassing board does their mandatory duty, we can`t do any of that. So, we have made that referral, or we`re going to be making a referral shortly, and quite frankly criminal prosecution is on the list, as well as removal from office, for these commissioners who are violating the law.
MADDOW: Wow. New Mexico Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver, I`m sure you never anticipated your duties at secretary of state requiring this kind of action. But here you are. Thank you very much for helping us understand the claim, please stay in touch with us about the story, as it moves forward.
OLIVER: Indeed. Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: All right. We`ll be right back. Stay with us.
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MADDOW: That is going to do it for us tonight. But, remember, tomorrow is going to be a really interesting day in the news. We`ve got the next January 6th investigation hearing, live at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. Whether or not you able to watch that live as it happens, please remember that tomorrow night, we will be here, me and a cast of thousands among my MSNBC colleagues. We will be here, doing a primetime recap of tomorrow`s January 6th hearing, starting at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
So if you are used to seeing me or "MSNBC PRIME" at 9:00, tune in an hour early tomorrow for that primetime recap of the next January 6th hearing. I will see you 8:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow night.
Now it`s time for "THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL".
Good evening, Lawrence.