Summary
MSNBC`s continuing live coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. History was made today as confirmation hearings began for the Supreme Court nominee Ketanji Brown-Jackson.
Transcript
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Yeah, I kept watching, and I was like, they`re going to overturn Roe in like two and a half months, and abortion is going to be legal in half the country. And it just feels like this monster that looms -- along with other things.
Dahlia Lithwick and, Janai Nelson, thank you both. I appreciate it.
That is "ALL IN" on this Monday night.
THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW with Ali Velshi starts now.
Good evening, Ali. You`ve been doing amazing, amazing work. I just want to say it.
ALI VELSHI, MSNBC HOST: Chris, thank you. I appreciate that coming from you. You have yourself a great evening, and we will talk to you tomorrow.
And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.
I`m coming to you tonight from Warsaw, Poland. Warsaw is a bustling European capital, of about 1.8 million people. And in just the last few weeks, the population has grown by over 300,000 Ukrainian refugees.
Now, Poland shares a 310-mile border with Ukraine, and of the over 3 million refugees who fled Ukraine, since the start of the Russian invasion, the overwhelming majority, more than 2 million, have come here to Poland. And, even as Poland has been the forefront of the humanitarian response to the war in Ukraine, by taking in so many refugees, Poland`s leaders have put themselves at the forefront of the political, and military response, as well. Both Poland`s prime minister, and the leader of Poland`s ruling party, joined Eastern European leaders on a train journey, to Kyiv last week, to meet in person with Ukraine`s president.
Poland has become, perhaps, the loudest cheerleader for European and NATO solidarity with Ukraine. Poland is even planning to propose a NATO peacekeeping force, to go into Ukraine, this week, which is fascinating, because, literally, just to my left side here, a few seconds away, the building, right next door to where I am, is the presidential palace, in Warsaw.
Eastern European leaders, gathering just a few decades ago, right here, to join forces against NATO. In fact, it was after western many was admitted to NATO, and may of 1955, the Soviet Union scrambled to set up some kind of counterweight to that giant Western military alliance.
Just over one week later, the Soviet Union, along with delegates from Hungary, Romania, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Albania, and Poland, all, then communist countries, under the sway, and sponsorship of the Soviet Union, gathered right next door to where I am, at the presidential palace, to sign the Warsaw Pact.
Check out this news reel from that day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Leaders of the communist world met in Warsaw to sign the treaty which is their answer to NATO. The Soviet premier, Bulganin, is prominent on the platform, when the delegates show themselves to Warsaw`s thousands. China`s Defense Minister Peng Dehuai, and Russia`s General (INAUDIBLE) clapping and being clapped.
The Polish Premier Cyrankiewicz tells of the new military, and political treaty, while the General Peng listens. China is not actually a member of this communist NATO. They want to show that they can negotiate from strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: The Warsaw pact, it was the anti-NATO, or, the NATO mirror image. The Warsaw pact even had a clause that mirrored NATO`s Article Five, that an attack on any member nation would be considered an attack on all. The Warsaw pact endured for about 30 years, a little over 30 years, but in 1989, as the Berlin wall came down, and communist governments across eastern Europe fell, one by one, the members left the Warsaw Pact, until it was formally dissolved in 1991.
But, NATO, the greatest military alliance in the history of the world, took up the slack. All of those Warsaw pact countries, ultimately, along with many other former eastern bloc nations, joined NATO. But, not Ukraine. Ukraine has never joined NATO.
In 2019, Ukraine amended its constitution to commit itself to eventually joining NATO. And, of course, Russia cited the threat of Ukraine joining NATO as one of the justifications for its invasion. As far as the nonsensical reasons for the unprovoked Russian attack on Ukraine goes, it`s one that holds almost water -- much more than the denazification of Ukraine, or the protection of Russians inside Ukraine, or being subject to this unproven genocide. Those are lies. But, Russia sphere of Ukraine, joining NATO, is very, very real.
In fact, last week, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy appeared to say that he was willing to give up aspirations to NATO membership if that would stop the Russian aggression. But this weekend, he said something different.
[21:05:00]
He said it`s NATO that needs to say, firmly, one way or another, whether they`re ever going to admit Ukraine. If they won`t, fine. Ukraine will accept it, and move on. Did not expect the protections that membership in NATO would entail.
But if NATO will accept Ukraine, then Zelenskyy says they need to do it right now. And give Ukraine, the military power it needs, before any more Ukrainians die.
American defense officials say the Russian advance into Ukraine remain stalled as Russians forces continue to encounter fierce Ukrainian resistance. Today, pro-Kremlin tabloid, in Russia, published what it said were official Russian military defense figures, putting the number of Russian troops killed nearly 10,000. Now, that would be 20 times the number that Russia, has previously, acknowledged, and even higher than U.S. estimates. However, that part of the article, quickly, deleted, impossible to say whether that was a genuine Russian government figure, or why that tabloid appears to have published it, and then taken it down. All we know for certain is that however bad the invasion may be going for Russia, it is going much, much, much worse, for Ukrainian civilians.
Russia seems to be responding to the military stalemate on the ground, with increasing atrocities from the air.
Sky News` Alex Crawford filed this report today from Kyiv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX CRAWFORD, SKY NEWS REPORTER (voice-over): The capital`s northern suburbs are under attack. The skylines increasingly clouded, after rocket strikes. The Russian military, trying to push closer into the city, but they had to get through three small communities in between. We`re rushed through checkpoints, the shells land here without warning, causing fires which ripped through this forested area.
They know that there are the ones not holding the line against the Russians. So, they`re digging trenches, and bolstering their positions.
The community is already been hit several times. The attacks have left yet more people without homes. And workplaces, and businesses, have been left shattered.
But, the main supermarket is still operating, despite being shelled earlier. The staff are just wiping down their supplies, and carrying on, regardless.
We even know how to protect ourselves, to something`s incoming, she says. We lie down and cover our heads.
The sounds of Russians nearby seems constant once we are here. They are Nazis, he says. And there is another attack. He waits to hear of it`s landing close by.
He was a swimming coach, a few weeks ago. Now, everyone here is a bomb expert.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Sky News` Alex Crawford, with the snapshot of how the war is playing out, in just one suburb of the capital.
But, of course, the Russian invasion is playing out all across Ukraine, affecting everyone, in every corner of that country, like that swimming coach, who is now tasked with stopping the Russian army for marching into Kyiv.
NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel is there in Kyiv. He filed this report today on the events unfolding across Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: With Russia`s advance slowed, to what U.S. officials described as a stalemate, its forces are unleashing more bombardments on civilian targets. Rescue workers searched for survivors after a deadly strike in Kyiv, this time, on a shopping mall. More homes were also hit. Kyiv`s mayor says, more than 70 buildings have been destroyed. But, despite the violence, or more likely because of it. Ukrainians are still turning out to challenge Russian troops.
In Russian-occupied Kherson, new images show protesters refusing to back down, until Russian troops opened fire, mostly in the air, to disperse the crowds.
Kherson is a Russian-speaking, Russia assume it would fall easily. The besieged city of Mariupol is getting the worst of the Russian assault. Ukrainian officials today rejected a Russian demand to surrender the city this morning, even after a maternity hospital was hit and civilian shelters, at a theater, and an art school, were bombed.
Now, President Zelenskyy is preparing Ukrainians for worse. Playing an air raid siren, telling them not to be afraid, but to get used to it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: President Zelenskyy today also delivered what he called an address to people of Ukraine cities. He called out each of Ukraine cities by name, hailing them for their bravery in the face of Russian assaults. In particular, he singled out the residents of the Russian occupied Kherson that Richard were just talking about, where Russian troops dispersed protesters with fire.
He said, quote, Kherson, hold on. We`ve all seen you stand. We`ve seen who you are. We have all felt on how you want to regain your freedom, end quote.
[21:10:04]
Joining us now live from Kyiv is NBC News chief foreign correspondent, Richard Engel.
Richard, thanks for your excellent report, the excellent reporting that you continue to do.
I do want to get a sense here on the ground, you are seeing how some of these fights, and resistance are going on the ground, and you also have access to this high level of valuation, that there is a stalemate. Tell me how you evaluate that statement against what you are seeing?
ENGEL: So, right now, we are seeing two kinds of resistance. We are seeing military resistance, which is keeping Russian forces from Kyiv, and Russian forces have been kept back to the northern suburbs of the city, and have not been able to advance and days. So, we are seeing conventional, military resistance.
We are also seeing civil disobedience. We are seeing that in Kherson. And Kherson is one of the places where Russians, actually, occupy the city. They patrol, they patrol on foot, they have imposed a kind of shadow government, but the people are not accepting it.
Kherson was considered one of the more pro-Russian communities here. Before this war began, and I think this is one of the things that Vladimir Putin was counting on, there were deep divides here. Divides between east, and west, divides between those who spoke Russian, and those who speak native Ukrainian, and Kherson was considered the closest to Russia, as was Mariupol.
But if you look at what`s happening in Mariupol, and if you look at what`s happening in Kherson right now, there`s real hatred for Russia. People are swearing blood oaths. They are leaving the city if they can. They are being strip searched when they are leaving Mariupol, as the guards check to see if they have some sort of Nazi insignia, tattoos, swastikas, tattoo on their body.
And in Kherson, they`re standing up to gunfire. So, the Russian plan, both from a hearts and minds campaign, if you will, a plan to occupy, and easily pacify areas, that were thought to be pro-Russia, that`s not working. And, its conventional military plan, to drive into the cities, is not working, for now.
VELSHI: Let`s talk a little bit more Mariupol. At this point, there has been an offer, or a request by Russia, that Ukraine simply cede Mariupol. The Ukrainians have rejected that offer, but, the idea, that maybe, Vladimir Putin is giving up on the idea of taking Kyiv, and the government, and instead would be satisfied by more territorial gains, explain that to us. Give me some context around that.
ENGEL: So, throughout this conflict, we are guessing Vladimir Putin`s intentions. And, unfortunately, we`ve often been guessing them incorrectly. There was a camp thought that Vladimir Putin wouldn`t invade, and that camp included the Ukrainian government. It included President Zelenskyy, who thought, right until the end, that Russia was going to launch a full scale invasion.
Then, there was a camp who thought, maybe, Putin will take a piece. He would just take the Donbas, or maybe he would take a land bridge to Crimea. Now, if you want to land bridge to Crimea, that would be able to connect the territory of Russia, to the Crimean peninsula, which Russia annexed after it took it over in 2014, then he would have to take the city of Mariupol, and Kherson, and a few other areas in that -- in that southern region, along the black coast, in the sea of Azov.
From Putin`s perspective, that would give him a win, it would allow him to secure Crimea, and secure the water supply to Crimea, which also flows through that area.
But, is that going to be enough? And if people misjudged Putin, the first time, and I think would be foolish to allow ourselves to be fooled twice, and assume that we would just be satisfied with a slice in the east, especially when his troops are continuing to dig in. There`s new satellite images showing that troops are still mobilizing around the borders of this country, particularly up in the north of Belarus.
So, it is not at all clear that they want to only take Mariupol, and would somehow be satisfied with that and walk away. I think those calculations we can see from the beginning, but now that he is in this war, it is unclear.
VELSHI: So, let`s talk about -- at the beginning, there was also a calculation, and potentially, not officially, we may have heard that there is an offer, or planned by the U.S., to get Vladimir Zelenskyy out Kyiv, either to western Ukraine, a place like Lviv, or somewhere else made of unsafe or, or even to Poland to have a government in exile.
He refused to leave Kyiv, as it is members of parliament, and government officials.
[21:15:05]
And Kyiv still stands, and they are still in Kyiv, and you are still in Kyiv. We do know that there continues to be assault on that city. There was a deadly assault overnight at a shopping mall. What is the situation on the ground where you are in Kyiv?
ENGEL: So, there was also a big intelligence failure that I think we should acknowledge. The U.S. correctly predicted that Vladimir Putin would to some sort of invasion, but the intelligence failure was that they thought the Ukrainian government was going to imminently collapse, and that Zelenskyy would have to become some Charles de Gaulle figure operating in exile. When, now, he`s still here, is leading an effective resistance.
You asked what`s the mood here in Kyiv. It is a very strange city right now. There are 2 million people here, according to the mayor, give or take. Most of them are men because men are not allowed to leave this country. If you notice where you are, lots of refugees are women, children, and the elderly.
The men are still here. There`s no real work, so to speak. Nothing is open. There`s no ability to shop, so you have lots of men in their houses with no families, living on crackers on salami. There`s no alcohol in the city, it`s been dry by the mayor.
Everyone is participating in some form in the civil defense. People walk around in militarized clothing with colored arm bands around their upper arm, either yellow or blue to show that they are loyal to the army. There`s checkpoints on the streets.
You are asked for your papers, although every time you go through the checkpoint it is -- it harkens back to an earlier time when you are asked to see your papers, every place you go in a city full of men bracing for war.
VELSHI: Yeah. Well said.
Richard, thank you. Please stay safe, my friend. NBC News chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel is in Kyiv.
As we mentioned at the top of the show, there are new warnings that this war could drag on for much longer. A senior NATO intelligence official says both sides on average of a stalemate, with Ukrainian forces preventing Russians of making gains, but Putin showing absolutely no sign of backing down. It`s a particularly ominous assessment as NATO allies are set to meet this week, likely, against the backdrop of a protracted the war in Ukraine that will put considerably more Ukrainian civilian lives at risk.
And it`s a war that the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is arguing, could have been avoided altogether, saying this weekend, that, quote, if we were a NATO member, a war wouldn`t have started. And further calling on NATO to give Ukraine some sort of clarity as to whether or not they will ever be able to join the alliance.
Joining us now is how Heather Conley, president of the German Marshall Fund. She`s also a former deputy assistant secretary of state for Europe and Eurasian affairs, where she co-led the U.S. interagency effort to enlarge NATO.
Heather, good to see you. Thank you for joining us.
Certainly, the growth of NATO and the beginning, and that subsequent to the collapse of the Warsaw pact and the fall of the Berlin Wall, it`s not clear to most of our viewers how these former Warsaw Pact countries came to be NATO countries, and why some of them didn`t.
But what`s the CliffsNotes version of thought, and what Zelenskyy is asking for? Let us in now.
HEATHER CONLEY, PRESIDENT, GERMAN MARSHALL FUND: Well, the CliffsNotes is that the Washington treaty, which established the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in 1949. There`s an article ten that says, membership is available and open to those European countries that can assume the responsibilities of becoming a NATO member. So, this is why NATO enlargement has proceeded since 1949 up to now, 30 members of NATO.
Obviously, as NATO expanded, it becomes more challenging to make decisions at 30. But it is a strong and vibrant alliance.
Now, the members not want to join NATO. Yes, NATO members have to accept them, and we closely scrutinize every aspirant country`s application. They have to have a strong defense. They have to have strong democracies, and be able to accept the responsibility.
So it`s not just to let us, it is a process. But it is open to all European countries that can accept those responsibilities. So, the thing is, is very difficult to bring in a member we have such a dramatic situation at hand. But I will tell, what Vladimir Putin is doing is making more countries want to join NATO. Neutral countries like Sweden, like Finland, because the Russians are really threatening their freedom of choice to join alliances.
So the more threatening Vladimir Putin becomes, the more countries that want to seek the security umbrella of NATO.
So he`s creating these conditions in 2014, the Ukrainian Constitution ensure that Ukraine was a neutral country by annexing Crimea, and invading Donbas in 2014. It was Vladimir Putin who forced the Ukrainian government to change its constitution to want to be more closely aligned with NATO.
So again, Moscow has to accept its strategic failures. The more it takes these actions, the more countries want to join NATO.
VELSHI: That was such a great, crystal clear explanation about why countries join, how they join. So, thank you for that.
But now I want to get your reaction to the other thing that President Zelenskyy said over the weekend, arguing that, quote, if we were a NATO member, this war would not have started. These were his words.
Is he right? Would this war never taken place? Would Russia have just not done it, not gone across the border if Ukraine were a NATO member? Because, really, the second part of my question is that countries like Poland do for Russian expansion. If they feel that if they can get away with Ukraine, the Russians can continue to move further west or northeast, and take other countries. Is that possible?
CONLEY: Well, I think there`s some truth to what President Zelenskyy said, because you look at the three Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland is another example.
When these countries join NATO, they did have a strong sense of defense, of deterrence, of reassurance that should Russia become the Russia that it is today, and I aggressor state, a revisionist state, they would be protected. This is what President Zelenskyy`s asking for Ukraine right now. The challenge is, it`s the geopolitical conditions that allow this membership to proceed.
So, we had two geostrategic openings particularly in 1999 that brought in Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. In 2002, the one I was involved, then they brought in the Baltic states, as well as Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria. NATO has continued to enlarge, even that past that point.
But it was that we have that opportunity to do it. But now, we have a very different Russia. And so we have to bring that into consideration. But look, NATO enlargement is not done. The geopolitical window will open, and this is where we have to have the closest possible relationship between NATO and Ukraine.
Between NATO and other former soviet states like the Republic of Georgia, because when the geopolitical window opens, we want their candidacies to be strong and to be in the best position for a NATO and the European Union, if that`s possible, to continue to expand eastward. That`s why Mr. Putin fears.
This is really not, Ali, let me very clear, it`s not about membership in NATO. It`s not about membership in the European Union. What Vladimir Putin fears is the freedom of choice, and the dignity of the individual. He cannot allow that in Russia and retain has power if Ukraine becomes a thriving, prosperous, and secure democracy. That is his greatest threat.
And membership in NATO or membership in the European Union just represents that freedom of choice, and that dignity. That`s why Mr. Putin will not allow to stand in Ukraine and he`s trying to destroy Ukraine before he allows them to join that family of democracies.
VELSHI: Heather, thanks, as always, we are much smarter for hearing your analysis of these things.
Heather Conley is the president of the German Marshall Fund. We appreciate you being with us tonight.
Well, perhaps the hardest hit places of all in Ukraine right now is the city of Mariupol. Tonight, we`re going to hear from some of the people who managed to escape, and the Russian scorched earth tactics in that city are raising questions about the man behind this increasingly brutal invasion, and how far he`s willing to go to get what he wants. More on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:28:21]
VELSHI: These are photos from the Chechen capital city of Grozny. Totally flattened, burned, and destroyed, after Russian captured it in February of 2000. Putin`s victory there, helping him win the Russian presidency, the next month. The insurgency that followed would keep Russian forces in Chechnya for nearly a decade.
This is drone footage from 2019 of the largest, most populated city in Syria, Aleppo. One of the most beautiful, and historic cities in the world, until Russian support, and, in particular, Russian airstrikes, that started in 2015, helped the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, regain control of the city. Not by capturing it, conventionally, put by destroying it.
And this is footage out of the Ukrainian port city of Mariupol, from Friday. Hundreds of thousands of civilians, still there, suffering through Russian bombardments, and desperate for basic supplies.
Today, in an op-ed in "The Washington Post", the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy`s chief of staff said, what is happening to Mariupol is a sign, of what`s to come in the rest of the country. Quote, this is how Russia wages wars. It did in Grozny, in 1999, and Syria, in 2015. Now, it is doing it in Ukraine. This is a scorched earth campaign, to wipe Ukraine, its people, its country, its history, off of the map, end quote.
Russian forces have surrounded the city of Mariupol, not letting food, or supplies in. Today, offering humanitarian corridors out of the city, only in exchange for surrender. And the rest of the country, Russian forces have stalled, and no longer gaining new ground.
One U.S. official told "The Wall Street Journal" yesterday that U.S. military assessments, believe that Russia is reverting to siege tactics, which means that they are no longer focused on conventional gains, like advancing into more territory, and are now focused on a war of attrition, using brutality, starvation, and cold, to get Ukrainians to give in.
[21:30:20]
Harming civilians to achieve military aims is a war crime. But, it`s uniquely effective one.
Senior officials in the Biden administration also told "The Wall Street Journal", that the administration`s new assessment to president Putin`s intention, is he no longer intends to seize Kyiv, but, to compel Kyiv to accept Russian claims, to Ukraine`s southern, or eastern territories, to secure a land bridge between western Russia, and the Crimean peninsula, end quote.
But, this is potential -- this potential off-ramps, the supposed plan B, really, is it something that can be trusted, let alone accepted? Or is it just appeasement of Vladimir Putin?
Would Putin ever settle for less than the entirety of Ukrainians? And should Ukrainians, or any less in the world settle for less than a full Russian retreat from Ukraine?
Joining us now is Ruth Ben-Ghiat. She`s a professor of history at New York University, someone I consider an authority figure on authoritarians.
Professor, good to see you again. Thank you for being with us.
I want to ask you for this comparison, that has been made to Grozny, in Chechnya, to Aleppo and Syria. What is this kind of scorched earth warfare portend for Ukraine?
RUTH BEN-GHIAT, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY HISTORY PROFESSOR: No, nothing good because all of these atrocities, and you can include the use of chemical weapons, chlorine, sarin gas in Syria, and bombing civilians, and hospitals.
Now, what we see is atrocities, Putin sees as a record of success, because he`s been doing this for 20 years. He has paid no big price, domestically, as they got a boost from the very beginning, when you`re pointing out he was coming into the presidency. This cemented his strongman tactics, his fame as a strongman. He also paid no price, internationally, when he annexed Crimea. There was sanctions, but that was a boost of popularity for him.
So, what we see is atrocities, he sees as a record of success. Things that have benefited Russia, and him, personally.
VELSHI: Unfortunately, the result of that is at the brutality, here, is the point. Well it is not Vladimir Putin, personally committing these atrocities, it is a Russian troops. How do these autocrats, these people like Vladimir Putin, convince massive swaths of their population to take up arms, to be this brutal on their behalf?
BEN GHIAT: Well, I mean, Putin has been having this demonization of the west, demonization of democracy, and the kind of siege mentality, ideologically, against the West. He has presented himself as the only defender of these ideologies, and habits, that can lead to ruin. There is countless speeches, in which he says, at least a moral depravity, to weakness, to the end of civilization.
Now, that is one thing, but another thing is sending troops in and them knowing increasingly that he does not care about them. In fact, we talked before about if there is a prolonged war, a war of attrition, affecting Russians too. Now, we know not only does he have no moral, or humanitarian sentiment, he also does not care about his people.
So, a war of attrition, perfectly, is fine to him. But we know that Russian soldiers, already, are feeling a little deceived, from reports of POW statements, and the more that this goes on, it is unclear what their morale, and their fighting will, will be.
VELSHI: I was talking to Richard Engel about this earlier in the show, this idea that they don`t go for Kyiv, but if the Ukrainians give up Mariupol, in some of the cities, in Kherson, and give them the land bridge to Crimea, Putin might take that.
Do you think there is a likelihood of Putin accepting an off ramp, or is he just stalling, one of the objective remains taking control of Ukraine?
BEN-GHIAT: It is more likely that he is stalling because he would like to say face, but he couldn`t afford to come home with a little more than he started with. Because, as you know, Ali, he embarked on this whole thing because he was worried about feeling insecure about his power at home. So, if he has a humiliation, or a defeat, because look at what it`s cost Russia.
[21:35:03]
Russia is a pariah. The economy has tanked. All of the things we know.
So, if he has some kind of humiliation, it could lead him to be in a far worse position at home. Now, unfortunately, that is why the more the work goes on and if, you think back for Russia, the more likely that he may be to resort to non-conventional, such as chemical weapons, because he desperately need to defeat.
The irony is that Zelenskyy, who is in the state of siege, has a much better relationship, and much more stable position versus his own people, in the way that Putin does with his.
VELSHI: Surprisingly so, because there are a lot of people, inside, and outside Ukraine, who thought that Volodymyr Zelenskyy is not, exactly, the kind of meet this moment. It is with some amazement, that the entire world was watching how this unfolds, and what`s performances been like.
Professor, thank you for being with us, as always. Ruth Ben-Ghiat is a professor of history at New York University. We always appreciate your time.
Well, more news from Ukraine ahead, and something else historic happened today.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:40:53]
VELSHI: This image of a wounded, pregnant women being moved on a stretcher has been a symbol of the toll of Russia`s aggression in the besieged city of Mariupol. The deadly bombing of the maternity hospital was one of the first atrocities documented there, drawing worldwide attention and outrage.
That mother and her baby later died. The people who shared that image with the world were the only international journalists left in that city, a photographer and video journalist for "The Associated Press". Those journalists said that the people of the city begged them to tell the outside world of all was happening in Mariupol, begged them to bear witness.
They said the doctors pleaded with us the phone families, bringing their own dead and wounded, and use their dwindling generator power for our cameras. No one knows what`s going on in our city, they said. Their reporting made them targets.
The journalists later told the "AP", the Russians were hunting us down. They have a list of names, including ours, and they were closing in, end quote.
Luckily, Ukrainian soldiers found them and extracted them from the city first. And since then, we`ve seen more those devastating images out of Mariupol. Ukrainian officials accuse Russia of bombing an art school over the weekend, where as many as 400 people were sheltering, trapping them under the rubble.
Days before that, there was a bombing of a theater where more than 1,300 people were taking shelter. Last week, President Zelenskyy said the rescue effort there was ongoing, but unclear where it stands today because it`s hard to get firsthand accounts out of Mariupol.
And what we have learned is apocalyptic. A new report from "The Financial Times" details how some people in the city are so desperately thirsty, that they have, quote, drained water from radiators, collected and melted snow, also an also scoured local parks first freshwater streams. Residents they spoke to said unfortunately cues would form at the streams, and that was a perfect target for Russian missiles.
In addition, the streams also fell out of favor because they quickly became contaminated by corpses. It`s those desperate stories that are showing the outside world the horrors of what`s happening in Mariupol.
And, now we`re getting more hand accounts with important work of Belkis Wille, a senior crisis and conflict researcher at Human Rights Watch. She recently spoke to 32 people who had fled the city.
Here are some of their accounts. We want to warn, you these descriptions are disturbing.
Quote: One man said that three women were on their way to buy bread, when an attack took place, killing one of the women, during offer hands, and seriously injuring the two others. One man described how his neighbor was killed, quote, he was pierced by pieces of metal, including does heart. And he died because of the continued attacks, his family`s long been able to bury him yet, so his body is still in a van outside.
Joining us now is Belkis Wille, senior crisis and conflict researcher at Human Rights Watch.
Ms. Wille, thank you so much for being here, and thank you so much for bearing witness by bringing us these accounts. They are devastating.
I`m trying to get a sense from these people who you talk to who are out of Mariupol, what life must be like for those who are inside and for whom we cannot bear witness right now.
BELKIS WILLE, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH SENIOR RESEARCHER: Absolutely. I mean, the people we spoke to are the lucky few. There are people who had personal vehicles and were able to actually make it out of the city. Humanitarian corridors were broken down time and again. And so, you haven`t seen an organized full scale evacuation that`s allowed the majority of the population out.
Everyone we spoke to had been sheltering in basements with dozens of other people who stayed behind, because they didn`t have cars. They don`t have a way out. And as you said, they describe to us flushing out their heating systems to get access to water, going to springs melting snow.
And the people we spoke to all said that food stocks were really dwindling when they left other people behind in the basements that they have been sheltering in.
[21:45:07]
VELSHI: You know, every time I meet refugees who are coming across the border, generally women and children, they`re all telling a story about someone who stayed behind. They then have money. They don`t have the ability to leave. Obviously, if you`re in a bomb that city, you cancel your property. You wonder when this is going to, and you wonderfully better.
But in Mariupol, we have a situation which there`s not the availability of water, and it`s winter, despite the fact that it feels like springs are some people don`t have heating, they don`t have power, we`ve met people who say they can`t get in touch with their relatives back in Mariupol because there`s no service.
It`s -- you`re damn if you do, and you`re damn if you don`t if you`re in Mariupol.
WILLE: Absolutely, and I think the point you make about those left behind and how they are affected particularly by the lack of electricity is significant. For those people that we interviewed, most of them, before they made it, out spent two weeks hiding in basements and sheltering from this ongoing shelling all around them, just hoping that they wouldn`t be injured. And eventually, they would be able to make it out.
The most haunting stories that I heard were actually from older people, people with disabilities. For these people, they couldn`t make it down to the basements. So they were in their apartment buildings. I spoke to a man in his 80s who was on his sixth floor apartment, another couple who are on the third floor apartment. And for them, there was no way down.
And they describe to me how they essentially spent those two weeks sitting on their couch in a room with blown out windows, nothing blocking the cold outside, as you said. It was below zero degrees Celsius. And they were sitting there freezing. And they were just watching the bombs and the explosions going off outside of their windows -- absolutely terrified that any moment would be their last.
VELSHI: Terrified that any moment would be their last. People are living like this.
Belkis Wille, thank you for doing what you`re doing. Belkis Wille is a senior crisis and conflict researcher at Human Rights Watch. We appreciate your time tonight.
All right, up here -- up next tonight, while Americans watched the horror of what`s happening in Ukraine, on Capitol Hill today, much more positive side, history being made as confirmation hearings began for the Supreme Court nominee Ketanji Brown-Jackson.
Stay with us.
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[21:51:39]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does your appointment have any meaning to the civil rights movement?
CONSTANCE BAKER MOTLEY, FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO SERVE AS A FEDERAL JUDGE: Well, I think that the people with whom I work, within the civil rights movement, over the last 20 years, are pleased to hear of the presidents appointment. I think for Negro Americans, all over the country, of course, it is another indication that America is about to make good on its promise of equal opportunity, for all Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: President Lyndon B. Johnson nominated Constance Baker Motley to the judiciary in January 1966.
By the end of that summer, she became the first black woman to serve on the federal bench in the history of the United States. But, by that point, Judge Baker Motley had decades of experience litigating civil rights cases.
While working as the only woman lawyer of the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund, she was the protege of Thurgood Marshall, who went on to become the first black Supreme Court justice. She wrote the original complaint of Brown versus Board of Education. She represented clients, like Martin Luther King Jr. after his arrest in Birmingham, in 1963.
And more than 1,000 students who skipped class to protest segregation and burning him, under the threat of police violence. Motley was the first black woman, to argue cases before the Supreme Court. She did it 10 times. She won nine of those 10 times.
And that is the story, and legal legacy, of Supreme Court nominee, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, invoked today, when she spoke to the Senate judiciary committee, on day one of her confirmation hearings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, U.S. SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: During this hearing, I would hope that you can see how much I love our country and the Constitution and the rights that make us free. I stand on the shoulders of so many, who have come before me, including Judge Constance Baker Motley, who is the first African-American woman to be appointed to the federal bench, and with whom I share a birthday. Like Judge Motley, I have dedicated my career to ensuring that the words engraved on the front of the Supreme Court building, "equal justice under law," are a reality, and not just an ideal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Judge Ketanji Brown-Jackson, the first woman nominated to the Supreme Court, spoke to the committee for ten minutes, about her personal, and professional background, and her dedication to equal justice under the law. She spoke only after several hours of, the remarks by community members, which featured prominent Republicans, lobbing a range of critiques, as she sat, quietly, listening.
There were complaints about her previous work as a public defender, her membership on a school board, and the fact that the President Biden did not choose a different black woman to be his nominee. Other senators, reminding the room, Judge Jackson stood before the committee before. She faced Senate confirmation hearings in 2009, for her nomination to the U.S. Sentencing Commission. In 2012, for her nomination to the federal district court in Washington, and again, last, April for her nomination to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.
[21:55:01]
She was confirmed, each time, to the voice quote, but recently by a nine- foot margin, with three Republican, supporting her nomination.
She also clerked for Justice Breyer, just as she seeks to replace. With that extensively will resume, she could make this assurance to the committee today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: On the day of his Supreme Court nomination, Justice Breyer said, quote, what is law supposed to do, seen as a whole? It is supposed to allow all people, all people, to live together in a society where they have so many different views, so many different needs, to live together, in a way that is more harmonious, that is better, so that they can work productively together, end quote.
If I am confirmed, I commit to you, I will work productively to support and defend the Constitution and this grand experiment of American democracy that has endured over these past 246 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: The hearing will resume tomorrow at 9:00 a.m.
We`ll be right back.
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VELSHI: Well, that does it for us tonight. We`ll see you again tomorrow from Poland.
It`s time now for "THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL".
Good evening, my friend.