Summary
MSNBC`s continuing live coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Transcript
ALI VELSHI, MSNBC HOST: Mehdi, thank you. Have a good evening to you as well. Thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. I`m in Budapest, Hungary, the capital of Ukraine`s western neighbor Hungary.
We`re going to start tonight on the other side of Ukraine, though, the eastern side, in the city of Mariupol.
[21:00:03]
Mariupol is a port city of about half a million people. Look at it on the map. It`s only about 30 miles from the Russian border, and it is a largely Russian-speaking city. It`s one of the biggest cities in the Donbas region of Ukraine, which is an area that Russia has been trying to pry away from Ukraine for years.
Russian and Ukrainian forces have been engaged in fighting there for years. Many observers thought that if there any place that is going to be potentially receptive to a Russian invasion, it might be a place like Mariupol. But last month, just two days before Russia did in fact launch its invasion of Ukraine, this was the scene in central Mariupol. A large protest, dubbed: Mariupol is Ukraine.
Residents turned out with Ukrainian flags and anti-Putin placards. The site they chose for those patriotic protest is called Theater Square. The main building, you can see it there, is this theater which dates to the late 19th century, the Mariupol Drama Theater. It`s a Mariupol landmark.
Once the Russian invasion began, and as Mariupol has been besieged by Russian forces, and come under relentless Russian bombardment, this theater became a shelter for civilians in Mariupol whose homes were destroyed or who tried to escape the constant Russian shelling.
This video was posted by the Azov Battalion. It`s a far-right military unit that has become part of the Ukrainian National Guard. It`s been trading civilians for self-defense.
This video was taken last Thursday, and shows the Mariupol theater full of young families and young children. The image, from satellite company Maxar appears to show the Mariupol theater on March 14th. On both sides of the theater residents wrote the Russian word children, you can see it on the ground, large enough for any Russian bomber satellites to see from the sky.
Now, Maxar says this image was captured two days ago. This is the theater today, reduced to rubble. Mariupol City Council says it was the work of a Russian bomb, dropped well hundreds of people, including children, were believed to be sheltering inside.
City officials said they could not, immediately, go into assess how many people have been killed or injured, because Russia was continuing into a shell Russian areas. So, the toll of this bombing remains unknown. Video from a local official shows a sports center a couple of miles away, also used as a civilian shelter, apparently also hit by a Russian strike. That`s according to CNN.
The situation in Mariupol is, by all accounts, hellish. City officials say about 11,000 people were able to leave the city, today, but surrounded by Russian forces, most of the hundreds of thousands of residents of Mariupol are unable to escape the constant bombardment.
The city has no electricity, and little food or water. Ukraine officials say civilian casualties are in the thousands, and been buried in mass graves. So, that was before these latest attacks on civilian shelters.
At the moment, the apparent Russian strike hit the Mariupol theater, Ukraine`s president was addressing the United States Congress by video link, telling lawmakers that his country needs more help and needs it now. In the midst of a speech, he played a video for the American lawmakers showing some of this suffering and destruction that is people are experiencing.
We`re going to play you a bit of that video, but I have to warn you, it includes graphic and disturbing images, including bodies of people killed by Russian attacks.
So again, this is the video, the very disturbing video made by the Ukrainian government, and shown today to the U.S. Congress.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
[21:05:03]
VELSHI: That video, from the Ukrainian government, and it on these words: Close the sky over Ukraine, another plea from President Zelenskyy for the U.S. and NATO to implement a no-fly zone. Zelenskyy then ended his address to Congress in English.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: And as the leader of my nation, addressing President Biden, you are the leader of the nation, of your great nation. I wish you would be the leader of the world. Being the leader of the world means to be the leader of peace.
Thank you. Slava Ukraini.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Ukraine`s president this morning receiving a standing ovation from the U.S. Congress. His plea for a no-fly zone remains a non-starter for the U.S. and NATO.
But, shortly after Zelenskyy speech, President Biden announced a new $800 million aid package for Ukraine, including hundreds of anti-aircraft systems, thousands of shoulder-mounted missiles, thousands of small arms like machine guns, and drones. We`re going to have more on that in a few minutes.
After his speech, a reporter asked the president if he was ready to call Vladimir Putin a war criminal. At first, Biden said no. But perhaps he didn`t hear the question, because a few seconds later he returned to that reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Did you ask me whether I would call?
REPORTER: Call him a war criminal, sir.
BIDEN: Oh, I think he is a war criminal.
(END VIDEO CLIP
VELSHI: President Biden, today, calling Vladimir Putin a war criminal. The Kremlin expressed great outrage and indignation about that today. But there`s no doubt that the situation in Ukraine is a humanitarian disaster of epic proportions. Amidst the death and injury and destruction, the Russian invasion has created millions of refugees.
UNICEF said today that one and a half million children have fled Ukraine since the start of the war, equating to about 55 children flee in the country every minute. Those are, of course, the lucky ones. President Zelenskyy says more than 100 children have been killed in the invasion, the United States -- the U.N. Security Council will hold an emergency meeting tomorrow, to get a brief from agencies on the worsening humanitarian situation in Ukraine, and the status of refugees.
Russia`s military appears to be making little progress in capturing territory. In fact, Ukraine says that its forces have launched counter offenses against Russia`s forces in the last 24 hours. And as skeptical as everyone remains of the ongoing cease-fire talks between Ukraine and Russia, both sides expressed some optimism, today, about a potential deal.
But for now, the war grinds on. And under constant Russian bombardment, the civilian toll in Ukraine is increasing by the hour.
I want to go to Cal Perry, who is standing by in the Ukrainian city of Lviv.
Cal, I know we`ve already spoken a lot about this attack in Mariupol, both the theater and the reported attack on the sports center, both of which people were taking shelter in, what more can you tell us about it, it`s so horrific that, I think we have to talk a little more about it.
CAL PERRY, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Agreed, I think this is starting to become the face of this war. It`s the worst that humanity has to offer, I don`t really know how to say it.
You have a third side that I think we need to talk, but that`s the hospital in the city. Russian forces moved at the hospital yesterday, and they are in control of the hospital. They`re using the patience as human shields, and if you flushes out a little bit, you get an idea of how bad the urban combat is. There is a number of reasons why there in the hospital. For one, they can be assured that, because of the patients there, that Ukrainian forces are not going to fire on them in that hospital. Two, you are deterring any man who`s fighting on the front from seeking medical treatment at the hospital. And three, you are terrorizing the civilian population.
It`s emblematic of what we`re seeing across the country, and in Mariupol, in that city, you have this hospital, you have this theater, you have a place where people are taking shelter. You have a picture of a city, not just under siege, but a city that is slowly dying, even without the violence. A place that is running out of food, a place that is running out of water.
I will remind our viewers a week ago, the president of Ukraine said that a girl in that city died of dehydration, that was seven days ago. Since then, there have been no aid convoys that are made to the center of the city. And again, the men are at the front.
So, there are going to be children who are being killed, and children who are being left alone because their parents are gone, and that is the reality of the situation in that city, which, again, seems unrelenting, like there is no letup from the Russians at all, Ali.
[21:10:04]
VELSHI: I know people in Ukraine have other things to do than listen to speeches, but their president is making a lot of them. He is addressing parliament, after Congress, on a daily basis, and it does seem to be rolling morale inside Ukraine.
Where are you hearing about how President Zelenskyy is doing in his efforts to convince Western leaders to do more in a country`s fight against Russia?
PERRY: So, he is speaking to a variety of audiences. He speaks to the Americans, today, to Congress he`s able to speak their language, the language of geopolitics, language of Russia as a threat, the language of how NATO plays into this. He switches to Russian later in the day, post a video where he speaks to the parents of those soldiers in Russia. Then he speaks in Russia to Russian soldiers, trying to tell them to surrender.
And by the time he is done with his day, and he posted a video to the Ukrainian people, they`ve seen all of this. They`ve seen their leader able to speak to all these different audiences, and then when he tells the Ukrainian people is a variation of the same thing which is, if God is on our side, who could be on their side?
We are fighting for our country, we are fighting for our freedom, we are fighting for our homes. And the Russians don`t know what it is that they are fighting for.
This is, however, a man who is in an increasingly difficult position when it comes to the negotiations, because no one wants to negotiate with a country that is invading another sovereign country, and has your citizens under fire. But at the same time, as we have chronicled, there are people dying right now, right now, there are people dying, all across the eastern part of the country.
And so any chance of a cease-fire is something they have to look at. I was grabbing a coffee at a coffee bar earlier today, Ali, and I turn to the person who`s standing next to me and said, look, it sounds like maybe President Zelenskyy is going to take a pass on NATO, what is your feeling about Ukraine not joining NATO, as a way of stopping violence.
And the person said, who cares, after everything we`ve done here, NATO is going to want to join us. After all the weapons that are committed to this country, the way that we`ve stood out said the Russians, we are the new NATO.
He has tapped into that feeling, he`s tapped into this idea that Ukraine is on the frontlines against Russia, and the West. And as this ideology that is working, and it`s getting people to the front. And it is really, I think, making a huge difference, here especially amongst the civilian defense forces, Ali.
VELSHI: Cal, can I just ask you about the humanitarian situation? I`m on the other side, obviously, of the scene, where I see people coming into Hungary. But Lviv is western Ukraine. It`s very close to Poland, you are just a few dozen miles from the polish border, and it is the main point through which are many people who are traveling out of the country to the west will go.
Are you seeing a shift in sort of the flow of humanity, as these attacks get more severe, and then as the humanitarian crisis grows?
PERRY: So, it seems like for many people, hundreds of thousands of people to stop. It`s a stop on the way to Poland. It`s a stop may be on the way to Hungary, where you are. It`s a way to avoid the actual physical confrontation of the war, a way to avoid the explosion so far. This city itself has been spared from explosions, there`s concerns that that will change.
The city itself is running out of room. It`s running out of resources. It`s being taxed. There`s not more room in the dormitories. There`s no room in hotels.
And so, at the train station, you have people sleeping outside. The authorities here are trying to move people on from the city, because as, of course, flowing the other way you have weapons and fighters. They just want to keep the logistics moving.
I think one of the things -- and I know that you are spending a lot of time looking at this. Down the road for these refugees is going to be something awful. The exploitation that happens once people flee, once they end up in foreign countries, once they end up in foreign cities can be horrible, and it is that after a fact that we`re now starting to see. And again, the condition only gets worse as time goes on. The food only becomes more and more difficult to find, the weather only gets worse the longer you sleep outside.
And I think that`s sort of the overriding thing that we need to worry about, we need to keep an eye on, because these numbers are unimaginable. You know, more than two and a half million people have fled, an equal number internally to this place. It`s an overwhelming humanitarian crisis.
VELSHI: Yeah, it`s cold as we report on these stories, but we don`t live outside. People are outside for days or hours, there`s price gouging, there is extortion going on.
Cal, our only job is to bear witness, and you and your team are doing that admirably. Thank you for doing that. NBC News correspondent Cal Perry in Lviv, please stay safe, my friend.
I want to bring into the conversation Marian Zablotskyy, a member of the Ukrainian parliament.
Mr. Zablotskyy, thank you so much for joining us, particularly at this hour. It`s the middle of the night. But I do want to get your reaction to President Biden`s announcement after President Zelenskyy`s presentation to Congress that he is sending more military aid to Ukraine, more anti-tank aircraft, more anti-craft -- I`m sorry, more anti-tank weapons, and more anti-aircraft weapons, more armed drones.
Is this going to help you?
[21:15:03]
MARYAN ZABLOTSKYY, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: This is extremely welcomed and we`re very grateful to American people, to President Biden, to American taxpayers for supporting us.
We understand the United States had their own problems, and $14 billion of aid to Ukraine still matter a lot in the United States. But here we will go a long way, it will alleviate suffering, and help us fight supposedly one of the biggest armies in the world. Of course, President Zelenskyy`s right that the U.S. is the only country that can lead the free world, and stop the global rules that were written down after World War II from changing. After World War II veteran thought that changing borders by force is the thing from the past, now this crazy man in Kremlin tries to change that.
And we are at the front lines of this. (IANUDIBLE) this is not only a fight about Ukraine, this is a fight about values, we do ask the American people and for President Biden to lead the fight.
VELSHI: What more do you have to say to the world when they say to you, as Cal Perry just reported, that you are making that argument that you are the frontline of democracy, near the front line against Russian imperialism, near the front line against rules that we all agreed many, many years ago we don`t break, about changing borders. Why do you feel that the West is not completely embracing that, and saying that this is the war, and we need to get into it?
ZABLOTSKYY: Well, I think the west has done quite a lot already, and it`s very difficult for me to criticize any country for not doing enough. I just need to do say that we need to do the maximum. So, here`s the thing, there are a lot of dictators around the world. A lot of countries with no democracy, and currently every single one of them is watching, what is the cost of actually trying to challenge the rules? What are the costs for invading other countries, and how will they be punished for that?
We need to set the precedent that the costs are all the maximum potential consequences so all the countries can do on their behalf. So, we cannot return to pre-World War II world, where one country invades another country and they tried to reach a sort of agreement about the changes to territory, because otherwise, the world will turn into chaos, and we will separate into World War III one way or another.
VELSHI: However, there are negotiations that start and stop between Russia and Ukraine. Negotiations made a deal.
How do you feel about the idea that Ukraine may end up making some concessions in order to get peace in the face of an unprovoked invasion of your country?
ZABLOTSKYY: Well, it`s very difficult to understand what will Putin end up agreeing to, and what he can agree to. What we understand now is that he`s playing to reach some sort of agreement, it was not existent before the war. He was absolutely 100 percent invested in this idea that he will win the country over the course of days, several weeks. And by now, in his mind, the country should have already been conquered, and there was no one to negotiate with.
How soon can you come to the reality that he actually needs to come to a table, he should admit that his plans have failed already, that he cannot reach what`s he wants with military needs is a debatable question. The question is to his mentality and how adequate he is. So I just think we have to wait and see for that.
VELSHI: Let me ask you about the reports, he`s very disturbing reports about the attacks continued attacks on civilian infrastructure, including this theater in Mariupol in which it is believed that there are people taking shelter. Do you think this changes the argument? Do you think this changes the willingness of the world to get involved in a different way, when they continue to see these humanitarian -- but might end up being war crimes?
ZABLOTSKYY: Of course, it changes the attitude of Ukrainian people as well. On where you`re seeing right now is actually much worse than what you can see -- I just returned from Kyiv a day ago, and I listen to a lot of stories from members of parliament, who helped people get out from the worst affected areas and you do hear the stories about how refugees, those people who escaped fighting or talking about actual violence, the rape, systematic, the murder of civilians, it`s absolutely heartbreaking.
So, it`s one thing to see it on the video, that Zelenskyy presented to watch for people, at the hospitals. It`s another thing to hear the stories of violence, and see the videos of violence.
[21:20:04]
It`s actually much worse in that, and this is something that Ukrainian nationals will never forgive and will never forget for generations to come.
VELSHI: For generations to come indeed.
Maryan Zablotskyy is a member of the Ukrainian parliament -- sir, we appreciate your time of what we say this evening, but it`s the middle of the night for you. Thank you for your time.
Well, President Biden today announced a new package, as we are discussing, of lethal aid to Ukraine, including, for the first time, armed switchblade drones. Can they help turn the tide of war? We are going to discuss with Ukraine`s former defense minister, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Today, the Ukrainian President Zelenskyy gave an impassioned address and, a virtual address to U.S. lawmakers. He once again requested a no-fly zone over his country, and pleaded for more security assistance in his conflict with Russia.
[21:25:02]
Now, a no-fly zone remains off the table, but a few hours later, President Joe Biden authorized a new package of $800 million in military aid. This is in addition to the $200 million he approves over the weekend.
Now, the new aid packages include more of the Javelin antitank and Stinger anti-aircraft weapons that the Biden administration had previously sent to Ukraine, and which have been used to great effect against Russian troops. But the administration is also sending 100 of what they referred to as, quote, tactical unmanned aerial systems.
Two congressional officials told NBC News today that those tactical unmanned aerial systems are actually something called switchblade drones, similar to the ones that you see here. There are portable, low cost, single use weapons that can strike enemy targets from miles away, and fly much faster than the Turkish drones that Ukraine has been using to date.
These U.S. switchblade drones are also small enough, that they cannot be detected by most air defense systems. Now, these weapons are coming at a crucial time for Ukrainian troops, who, today, according to Ukrainian officials, began launching counterattacks against Russian forces outside Kyiv, and in the Russian controlled southern city of Kherson.
These are aerial images from the Russian occupied Kherson airport. Today, Ukraine`s ministry of defense claims it destroyed several Russian military helicopters that were parked there.
Joining us now is Andriy Zagorodnyuk. He`s the former Ukrainian minister of defense, the cofounder and chairman of the security think tank, the Center for Defense Strategies.
Mr. Zagorodnyuk, thank you again for being with us.
ANDRIY ZAGORODNYUK, FORMER UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTER: Thank you.
VELSHI: I want to ask you about the fact that you and members of your current government continue to ask for greater air support, no-fly zones, and airplanes. And there is not much movement on that, it doesn`t mean that the constant requests do get some response in the case of the switchblade drones, the $800 million in new assistance that was announced today.
Tell me how far these incremental things go in helping Ukraine in its fight against Russia?
ZAGORODNYUK: Well, of course, any help, especially that substantial like $800 million, in addition to $200 million, it means that there`s a lots of equipment coming which enhances their abilities. And, of course, it`s a big deal. Of course, it`s something that helps us fight, especially if this is the high tech stuff like Javelins and Stingers and the switch blades.
But, we need to understand we`re dealing with thousands of tanks, we`re dealing with tens of thousands of Russian soldiers which are in our land. So, we have a huge, colossal challenge. And while this is a system that is very interesting and very effective, and it helps, and it was developed originally for special operations forces and it`s helpful to work with small groups which is our tactic, of course.
And it`s helpful to -- in the battlefield but up for talking about 100 or something like that oh -- that doesn`t resolve the problem we have now, because as I said, we`re dealing with a huge force which is currently in Ukraine, and we are succeeding. We are doing quite well.
So, we do need support, additional support, absolutely, with equipment.
VELSHI: Let`s talk about these guys, and the Stinger missiles. Stinger missiles are also very portable, and they`re useful for low flying, relatively slow aircraft. Everybody got familiar with how the Afghans use them against the Russian helicopters.
You`re discussing -- your government is discussing the acquisition of S300 anti-aircraft missiles. This is much more like Patriot missiles, that we are used to.
Tell me what you think the likelihood of getting them is, and what difference will make in the fight.
ZAGORODNYUK: Well, because we are currently having a very clear Russian tactical bombarding our cities with missile strikes, airstrikes of our cities, particularly the civilian infrastructure. Today, we had a horrible case in Mariupol when the theater was struck and was full of civilians. So, all these things are done in a great distance, so something like a Stinger missile has nothing to do about it, so this is absolutely out of its reach and it`s out of the reach of the operator.
So, for example a few days ago, this facility was shot by the missiles that were launched from the Black Sea, which was like several hundred kilometers away from the target.
So, for that, we need a totally different system.
[21:30:01]
And this is the S300, this is about Patriots, and that`s sort of type of air defense. So, these are different challenges and different types of air- defense equipment. And one cannot place the other one.
VELSHI: Thank you sir, as always for your time, Andriy Zagorodnyuk is a former Ukrainian minister of defense, we appreciate you joining us as always.
Well, as President Zelenskyy was getting a standing ovation from the U.S. Congress, Vladimir Putin was giving one of his most frightening speeches yet, warning Russians that they must follow the party line or else. So, how does the U.S. confront an authoritarian leader who seems more emboldened than ever to put an end to democracy as we know it?
The great historian Anne Applebaum joins me after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:35:27]
VELSHI: A lot of headlines earlier today about progress being made in peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, with even Russia`s foreign minister saying today there was some hope of a breakthrough in talks. But Russia`s leader had some different thoughts. Vladimir Putin struck a defiant and dark tone, saying that his, quote, special operation was developing successfully in strict accordance with pre-approved plans. He claimed the invasion was a fight for Russia`s sovereignty and said the West is trying to split Russia into parts.
The authoritarian leader wanted to make sure he was clear. Quote, we will never allow Ukraine to become a stronghold of aggressive actions against our country, end quote. But he also delivered the starkest threats to Russians who oppose him and his so-called special military operation.
Putin said, quote: The Russian people will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and simply spit them out like a fly that accidentally flew into their mouths. I am convinced that such a natural and necessary self purification of society will only strengthen our country.
There was startling comments come after the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee held a hearing yesterday on combating authoritarianism. The committee called the Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Anne Applebaum, an expert on authoritarianism, to testify. She said that the U.S. needs to do more to combat Russia`s authoritarian leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNE APPLEBAUM, THE ATLANTIC STAFF WRITER: Western sanctions alone have no impact on autocrats who know that they can continue to trade with one another, accusations from human rights organizations mean nothing to dictators. Russia invaded Ukraine in part because the Russian president believed he would pay no price. Instead of always reacting to the latest outrage, we need to change the rules of the game altogether.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Joining me now is Anne Applebaum. She`s a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian, a staff writer at "The Atlantic".
Ms. Applebaum, thank you for being with us.
I want to ask you. You said you got to change the rules of the game, that we have to stop being reactive. In this context of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, how would you have seen it going differently and how, in the middle of the game, do you change?
APPLEBAUM: So, there is the famous Irish joke about, if you want to get to Dun Laoghaire, you don`t start from here. And so, I wouldn`t have started from here from where we are. I would have pushback against not just Russian kleptocracy but international kleptocracy many years ago. We could have changed our laws in order to make it impossible to buy and sell property anonymously in our country and in other countries. We could`ve thought differently about how we communicate to Russians and to others.
In the middle of the war, it`s a much more difficult prospect, although I do hope that this war is going to give us some ideas for how to proceed in future. In the middle of the war, what I think we need to do is change our thinking. I feel that`s maybe beginning to happen in Washington. We need to begin to think that just about damage limitation or about how to grind down the Russians slowly. But about how we are going to help Ukraine win.
And by winning I mean expel the Russian troops from their country and great some kind of stable, long lasting permanent peace.
And that is a very large ask from where we are now, but if we make that our goal and then work backwards, which arms do we need to give the Ukrainians in order for them to push out the troops -- what kind of final settlement will achieve what we wanted to achieve?
We`re not looking for a second best outcome. We are looking for the best outcome. If we start to think like that, that will help guide us and our policy from now on.
VELSHI: And there is complexity when we talk about the West and the U.S., obviously. And Volodymyr Zelenskyy was appealing very directly to the United States Congress and the president. But there is a strong appeal to Ukraine`s neighbors on the west, including Hungary, where I am, we are they are saying, we are okay with sanctions, we are not touching the energy thing. The responses from different central and eastern European countries are different, depending on their experience and relationship with Russia. The Baltic States are very concerned about Russian expansionism. Poland is very concerned. Hungary less so.
How did these NATO nations, these Ukrainian neighbors, align themselves to be more impactful?
[21:40:06]
APPLEBAUM: So, it`s important to remember in this context that actually, Hungary is the outlier. Hungary is the only one of Ukraine`s immediate neighbors where the leader of Hungary has had a personal and probably corrupt relationship with Russia for some years. And there is a major Russian energy investment in Hungary which probably involved the Hungarian ruling party. And he is an outlier on many issues in the European Union.
He`s also somebody who has chipped away at democratic institutions in his own country and so, he is less worried about the impact of autocracy at home because he is working on creating a small one himself. So, there are those differences between countries.
I think it`s actually quite miraculous that the E.U., which contains a lot of countries with different political entries, from Spain, which is many miles away, to Lithuania, which is much closer -- it has managed to hold together quite a broad coalition, Hungary being one of the exceptions, partly because Europeans have realized that this is kind of a hinge moment, that the direction that this war goes will effect not all of us for a generation. It will affect the way democracy see themselves, the way the United States is perceived, whether democracy feels like a political system that it is expanding and rising or whether it feels like autocracies winning that contest.
I realize that that is a little over simplified. There are many kinds of democracies and autocracies. It`s not -- we are not in the cold war and there are not too clear camps. But nevertheless, there`s been a trend the last few years of liberal democracies and democratic institutions receding.
And this war will have a big impact on what direction that goes in. I think the Europeans mostly realized that.
VELSHI: I understand that for the short TV segments, we have to simplify things. But your books have been a master class for me in understanding this in non-un-simplified terms. So, I would recommend that people read them.
Anne, thank you, as always. Anne Applebaum is a staff writer at "The Atlantic" and the author of many important words about this part of the world. Thanks for taking part of your time tonight.
Well, the Ukrainian city of Mariupol is perhaps the Ukrainian city in the most dire straits tonight. Coming up next, we`ll talk with someone in Ukraine who`s trying to get medical help to Mariupol and other parts of the country.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[21:46:40]
VELSHI: For almost two weeks now, the humanitarian organization Doctors Without Borders, has been sounding the alarm that the port city of Mariupol, in the southeastern corner of Ukraine is in particularly dire straits. They warned then that many were lacking basic needs like running water. Since then, things have only gotten worse.
This is a phone call between Doctors Without Borders and one of their staff members in Mariupol, from this past Saturday, March 12th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People lost connection with their relatives. They don`t know what is happening with their relatives in other districts of Mariupol. And this already lasted for more than one week, and people are very worried about their relatives. They don`t know if they`re alive or if they are maybe not alive. We saw people who died because of lack of medication, and there are a lot of such people inside Mariupol, and many people who were killed and inured and they`re just lying on the ground and neighbors just digging the hole in the ground and putting their bodies inside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: That was Saturday. Today, that already terrible situation escalated dramatically. Mariupol city council said today that a powerful Russian bomb hit this building, a theater, where city council believes that hundreds of civilians were sheltering.
Now, city officials could not immediately assess how many people were killed or injured, because the entrance of the bomb shelters has been blocked by rubble.
So, what does this mean for the already precarious medical situation on the ground in Mariupol, and what does medical care look like in all of Ukraine right now?
Joining us now is Alex Wade. He`s an emergency coordinator with Doctors Without Borders. He spent the last few weeks traveling all over Ukraine, from Lviv in the West, to central Ukrainian city of Dnipro. And that`s where he joins us from tonight.
Alex, thanks very much for joining us this evening.
I know you and the world are particularly concerned, right now, about the city of Mariupol. Prior to today`s news about the bombing at a theater there that has been used as a shelter, what made Mariupol situation worse than other cities?
ALEX WADE, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS UKRAINE EMERGENCY COORDINATOR: For us, one of the most concerning things is that we`ve been completely cut off from being able to access Mariupol. We also lost communications with the hospitals there, we had been in contact with them and, we had been denoting supplies to.
The last communication we had was that we were receiving an increased amount of wounded, and there are worried about running out of supplies because the medical supply chain in the entire country has been disrupted due to this war. So we are worried about the situation in the hospitals.
But for us also, we have staff and colleagues of us who are there in Mariupol who have been reporting to us the conditions and they`re truly horrific. They`re saying it`s a living nightmare, they`re saying as hell on earth. They reported the lack of water and food in the city. They reported to us the dead bodies littering the streets and the stories of neighbors having to bury the dead bodies of their own neighbors, that people who started dying due to lack of access to medical care, people with chronic conditions with access to insulin, hemodialysis, a pregnant woman who need access to safe (INAUDIBLE).
[21:50:10]
And then also the many, many people who die from the violence and shelling inside the city.
VELSHI: Alex, Doctors Without Borders, or MSF as you call it, Medecins Sans Frontieres, has had a lot of experiences with taking doctors into some of the worst places in the world in terms of atrocities and dangerous. You are facing a situation where not only is your medical supply chain in peril, but there have been hospitals and medical facilities that have been hit.
How does this affect the delivery of your services?
WADE: It affects an enormously, because, indeed, we do work all over the world in conflict zones, but we do it by -- with our principles of neutrality, impartiality, negotiating with all partners. And under the rules of international humanitarian law, we try to work in protected environment such as hospitals, negotiating with all parties that is everyone`s interest for civilian and noncombatants to have access to medical care as, as they`re right under international law, and what we also the rules of war.
And so, presently, we can see that the rules of war have not always been respected so far. There has been shelling in residential areas, there have been civilian casualties, innocent people who should be safe if they seeing their homes, or should be safe to choose to leave and seek shelter elsewhere.
We haven`t been seen that. We`ve seen hospitals been hit, and there has been bombings in numerous residential areas. So, it makes us our ability to work incredibly complicated. We don`t have the guarantees we usually have in conflict zones, to have all parties respecting humanitarian access to the population.
We haven`t been able to have those sort of assurances and guarantees until now, so we haven`t been able to access Mariupol in the way that we would like to bring in supplies and to bring in personnel and to support the health system.
VELSHI: What does that actually mean, Alex, for the volunteers on which your organization exists. Obviously, you get donations, we have doctors, nurses, health care professionals, and other volunteers who go into these places. They are going into a place where they do not have the normal guarantees that they`re used to. There are never any guarantees with anything that Doctors Without Borders does.
But how does that affect the flow of people that you need?
WADE: I mean, you know, it affects our ability to send people to the places where they are most needed. So, we have many, many staff in Ukraine, who are operating in different parts of the country.
But the staff that we have, currently, and Mariupol are actually there because there was an ongoing project before the war started. It`s a project that opened in 2015, when the conflict in the east again, and so its staff, who are already there with ongoing activity (INAUDIBLE) with was the started (INAUDIBLE).
We like to send emergency teams. We have teams ready to go. We have supply ready to go. If such passage opens up, until now it hasn`t. And so, we are unable to access places like Mariupol, who have the highest needs right now.
VELSHI: Alex, thank you for what you do, thank you for all the volunteers that work with Doctors Without Borders, Medecins Sans Frontieres, and thank you for your time tonight.
When we come back, a piece of good news amid all the tragedy.
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VELSHI: Last week, we introduce you to 11-year-old Hassan, a Ukrainian refugee who is forced to flee his home to escape Russia`s assault. So far, about one and a half million children have fled Ukraine, according to the United Nations, for almost every second this war continues, another child becomes a refugee.
But Hassan made his 600 mile journey alone, traveling from southeast Ukraine to the Slovakian border with nothing but a backpack, a plastic bag, and this phone number written on the back of his hand. It was that phone number that connected him to siblings in Slovakia.
Now, according to the Slovak Ministry of the Interior, Hassan, quote, won over everyone with his smile, fearlessness, and determination, worthy of a real hero, end quote. But this is not the first time that war has displaced Hassan and his family. The first time was about 11 years ago when he was just a baby, Hassan and his sisters had to flee to escape violent conflict in their home country of Syria. Russia, of course, intervened in the Syrian conflict with airstrikes to help the Assad regime, striking both rebel held military outposts, and civilians.
At the time, Hassan and his family fled to his mother`s native country, Ukraine. They have not seen their father since they escaped Syria. The family says he disappeared in the fighting.
After Hassan successfully escaped Russia violence again, this time in Ukraine, his mother, Yulia, expressed her gratitude to Slovakia in a video saying, quote, I am very grateful that they save the life of my child. In your small country, there are people with big hearts.
Yulia said she had to stay in Ukraine to take care of her mother, who could not move on her own. But as the intensity of the Russian assault increased, Yulia decided she just had to take her mother and their dog and try to make it to Slovakia. And she succeeded.
This week, she was reunited with her children, with the help of Slovak police officials. She got to greet each of her kids with a hug after a war threatened to separate this family a second time.
This was the look on Hassan`s face, after weeks apart he finally got to hold his mother again. Pure joy.
Now, that the family is safely back together, the Slovak police force says Hassan`s older brother is looking to secure accommodations for the family, and set up for schoolings for his siblings. They`re beginning a new life together, defying the threat that war poses to all families caught in its path.
That does it for us tonight. We`ll see you again tomorrow.
Time now for "THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL".
Good evening, my friend.