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The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 6/8/2016

Guests: Nina Turner

Show: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW Date: June 8, 2016 Guest: Nina Turner

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: And thanks to you at home for joining us this hour.

In 1964, the Republican presidential primaries were a little bit of a mess that year or at least they were hard to follow, it was hard to figure out who was ahead. The first primary that year was won by this guy, the second one that year was won by this guy, the third one that year was won by this guy. Every new primary, it was a new winner and they weren`t like world famous people -- sort of all over the map.

Of course, at that time, 1964, the primary system itself was pretty new. Not every candidate for president was definitely competing in all of the primaries. At that point, people mostly still expected that nominees would be picked at the conventions, rather than through these state-by-state contests, these state-by-state primaries.

But in 1964, there were a bunch of state-by-state primaries and about two months into them, 11 primaries into it that year, by 11 primaries in, six different guys had won at least one of the primaries and a bunch of them are really guys you truly have never heard of, right? Any of these guys look familiar?

But one of the candidates who competed that year and never won a thing ended up becoming a future president. He had no luck at all that year in 1964, but he did run hard in this big field of all these unknowns with everybody winning a different one, each state being a new never heard of him before kind of winner.

This future president did run hard in 1964. In one state that he ran in, he went so far as to higher and then hide away a secret all female phone squad in a futile effort to win the primary that year in the great state of Oregon. It was exposed by a news crew.

Watch this.


REPORTER: His headquarters in still another store looks the same as all the others, pamphlets, posters, stickers, lapel buttons and so on. But the Nixon people upstairs have another operation they`ve tried to keep secret and until now they did. Set up on the fifth floor with about 50 telephones are about 30 girls hired from one of those places furnishing temporary office help.

They spend the day phoning around asking people how they plan to vote. If they say Nixon they get a kind word and thanks and if they say somebody else they get a Nixon sales talk.

As we say, they try to keep the phone set up secret perhaps to make it appear he was making no effort in Oregon and when our cameraman pushed his way in, he was asked to get out.


MADDOW: That was NBC News reporting in 1964 on Richard Nixon`s secret hideaway of 30 girls that he had hired from a temp agency to set up what I guess was a very early version of a political phone bank. He wanted to keep it secret so nobody would know he was trying in Oregon when he went on to lose Oregon very badly.

So, on that same night that NBC News exposed the secret Nixon phone bank in Oregon, that same reporter in Oregon for NBC also found and exposed another stealthy all girl effort for a different candidate in that primary. And this one, though, was one where the ladies didn`t have to be hired to do the work. This other one that that same reporter found those ladies were there of their own volition.


REPORTER: And Senator Margaret Chase Smith is on the ballot too because of a lot of Oregon ladies wanted her on and got up enough petitions to force it. And now, they`re trying to gather some votes and a trip to Oregon.

Here in Eugene, some of her boosters are collecting trading stamps to buy her an airplane ticket out here from Washington, and they mailed out cards asking donations of stamps. Now, they are meeting, licking stamps, pasting them in books and either getting money for them or turning them in for merchandise and selling that.

At this hour, it is not clear whether they`ll get Mrs. Smith out here or not. She hasn`t been here yet. If she doesn`t make it, it won`t be for lack of stamp licking. So far as we know, this is a political first, a campaign financed with trading stamps.


MADDOW: The first woman who ran in a major party primary for president in this country was Margaret Smith. She`s also the first woman ever elected to both the U.S. House and U.S. Senate. She had been married to a member of Congress from Maine and she was first elected to his house seat in a special election after he died.

But thereafter on her own terms she was elected and reelected as a zillion times in her own name, both in the House and then in the Senate before she decided in 1964 that she would make a pioneering run for president.

Look at this universal news reel from 1964, when she was going to run for president. Look at what they titled this piece about her. See, it wasn`t a man throwing his hat in the ring, it`s Senator Margaret Smith. So, it`s her "bonnet in the ring".


REPORTER: Senator Margaret Chase Smith of Maine makes the announcement that she will seek the Republican presidential nomination.

SEN. MARGARET CHASE SMITH (R), MAINE: Because of these very reasons against my running I have decided that I shall.


REPORTER: For the first time in the nation`s political history, a woman is actively seeking the presidential nomination of a major party. In campaigning, she`s an effective speaker but everywhere the key question is about a woman running for president.

And at the University of New Hampshire, Mrs. Smith was asked a question about how she as a woman president might deal with Nikita Khrushchev.

SMITH: I think I could outtalk him.


I`ve had a little experience with Mr. Khrushchev, as you may have read in the papers or have heard. I made a couple of major speeches on nuclear posture, and immediately got a response from Mr. Khrushchev. He said I was an Amazon war-monger.



MADDOW: Margaret Chase Smith was a Republican. She was an experienced politician. She had 24 years in Washington by the time she was running for president, both in the House and the Senate.

Twenty-four years in Washington. She got reelected over and over and over again. She was very popular.

She was a bit of a specialist on national security issues. You see from those clips, she was soft spoken but she was very charismatic, she was very funny. She could hold a room. She was a good speaker.

But her campaign in 1964, this idea of her a woman running for president of all things, right, it was treated like some kind of a cross between a magic trick and some charming diversion you might asked a trained child to perform at a dinner party for adults.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where will your Washington headquarters be or where will you begin to receive campaign contributions?

SMITH: The chair of the Republican National Committee his office will be headquarters for the campaign contributions.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you be willing to debate Rocky and Barry and Harold in New Hampshire?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who will be your running mate?


SMITH: None of the candidates have indicated any desire.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would you do as a candidate to breakdown discrimination against women?

SMITH: Well, if I -- if the people of this country don`t know what I would do from what I have done, I don`t think that I could add any information to that.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, if you can`t make it yourself, which candidate would you support for president? Goldwater, Rockefeller, Nixon, Scranton, or who else?

SMITH: Well, again I must answer that I`m a candidate for president and I`m not supporting anybody else.



MADDOW: So, the joke is that she is the one running for president. She`s not supporting somebody else that`s running. That itself is a spectacular punch line. I mean, that`s what`s so hilarious among this crowd.

This is a crowd that is for her, that is supportive. They`re not laughing at her in a mean way. They are laughing at the circumstance they find themselves in -- the very idea that a woman would even try this. It`s like stand up.

Margaret Chase Smith obviously did not win the Republican presidential nomination in 1964, in that chaotic primary year. The Republican Party instead picked Barry Goldwater who most of the country thought was a nut, and the Republican Party got absolutely shellacked up and down the ticket in one of their worse general election performances in the history of that party.

But Margaret Chase Smith, that same year she was the first woman who made a major party try for the presidency as a declared candidate running in the primaries, even if she did have to use trading stamps to try to finance her plane tickets to some of the faraway primaries. That was 52 years ago.

The highest profile woman to run for president after Margaret Chase Smith was the pioneering New York African-American Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm who ran eight years later in 1972.


SHIRLEY CHISHOLM, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSWOMAN: I`m going to tell you something, I don`t have any advanced men. I don`t have any public relations men. You know that not only am I literally and figuratively the dark horse, I`m actually the poor horse. The only thing I have going for me is my soul and my commitment to the American people.

I stand before you today to repudiate the notion that the American people will not vote for qualified candidate simply because he is not white or because she`s not a male. I do not believe that in 1972, the great majority of Americans will continue to harbor such narrow and petty prejudices.

I just want to say this and it`s very important for all Americans to recognize, the United States Constitution stipulates that anyone that is 35 years of age and over and a natural born citizen can run for the presidency. All of us meet that criteria, the people will make the decision.


REPORTER: This is Shirley Chisholm announced she`s running for president today. Would you vote for a woman for president?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want women a president, men.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think president is a man`s job.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think they`re as level-headed yet as the men are.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s about time. I think it`s about time for Shirley because things are bad as it is. They can`t do worse. They can do better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I don`t think they could handle the job.

REPORTER: Would you vote for a woman as president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not as yet. I don`t think women are ready for presidency. They need a little time.

REPORTER: Excuse me, sir. Sir. Hi, Ms. Chisholm said today that she`s going to run for president of the United States. Would you vote for her? Would you vote for a woman?

Would you vote for a woman for president? Would you vote for a woman for president?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes. I can`t talk.


MADDOW: See, the whole concept is hilarious. That was a year before I was born. That was 1972.

Margaret Chase Smith had been the first in 1964. Shirley Chisholm was eight years later. But in both cases, the very concept of a woman making a run for president was inherently hilarious.

In August, this summer, the Summer Olympics are going to start in Rio. There`s always drama around the Olympics. The Olympics by their nature are dramatic, right? This year, there`s extra drama because of the doping scandals.

There`s a lot of extra Olympics drama this year specifically because of where the Olympics are being held as well. There`s worries about the facilities that Brazil has built for the Olympics, whether they`re going to be safe. There`s a lot of worries about pollution in Brazil, particularly water pollution where Olympians are going to be swimming and sailing and kayaking.

There`s also the drama and threat of the Zika virus, which is a huge problem in Brazil and threatens to become a problem in every country of the world in which literally every county in the world sends athletes and coaches and teams and spectators into Brazil amid Zika infected mosquitoes for these games.

And on top of all that drama around the Olympics this year, there`s also the drama right now of what`s going on in the nation of Brazil because three days before the Olympics open up in Rio in August, Brazil is scheduled to impeach their president.

This is the president of Brazil right now, Dilma Rousseff. You see her there in the center. Right now, she`s actually suspended from office right now as president pending that dramatic impeachment vote right before the Olympics start. She is the first woman who was ever elected president of Brazil. Brazil crossed that particular bridge five years ago when Dilma Rousseff was elected.

And this first female presidency of Brazil turns out it`s likely to be ending in an unbelievably clamorous and dramatic fashion under the very hot glare of international attention as the world converges on her country for the Olympic Games.

But you know what, it is not Dilma Rousseff`s gender that makes what Brazil going through the sort of show-stopping political and international drama. Yes, the president of Brazil is a woman, but the rest of the world looks at that and thinks, what else you got for me?

I mean, there are female presidents and prime ministers and chancellors all over the world. In South Korea, in Germany, in Liberia, in Nepal, in the Marshal Islands, which is a country that may disappear if sea levels rise any further, in Norway, in Mauritius, in Croatia, in Malta, in Lithuania. I mean, these are all countries that are led by a woman president or prime minister or chancellor right now and that`s not an exhaustive list.

But in terms of the glass ceiling being broken for national leadership by women, it has happened everywhere. I mean, from Turkey to Sri Lanka to Indonesia, the world`s most populous Muslim country, to Malawi, to the Philippines, to Nicaragua, to freaking Pakistan, to Ireland, to Panama.

Why does no one have as big a problem with this as we do?

I mean, we`re not the only country in the world that`s never had a woman president, but when you think about America among the community of nations, you think about us and the world. You think about countries that we think we`re like, countries that we think of as peers, we really stand out on this front.

I mean, it is quaint to look back to the 1970s and the 1960s in this country as Shirley Chisholm and Margaret Chase Smith were being genially laughed at as women who were daffy and adorable enough to even think of themselves as somebody who might run for president. Imagine her picking a running mate. Ha, pause for applause.

It`s quaint to look back at that old black-and-white super dated footage from our country`s past to see how would-be women leaders were dismissed and mocked. But at that same time in the world that was happening here, contemporaneously, with that huge joke in the United States, in 1966, there`s India electing Indira Gandhi, to lead a nation of 450 million people.

In 1969, there`s Israel picking Golda Meir. Even before that in 1960, there`s Sri Lanka picking a female prime minister, in 1960. In 1979, there`s Britain picking Margaret Thatcher. In 1988, there`s the aforementioned freaking Pakistan picking Benazir Bhutto. In 1986, there`s the Philippines picking Corazon Aquino.

What is our problem exactly? Why has our country been so particularly resistant over all these years when not just our closest allies in the world were choosing female leaders but so were the countries that we sort of smugly look down on, right, as backward in the way they treat their women.

All these other countries, all these other continents, our allies and our enemies, progressive countries, conservative countries, they have gotten there years, decades before the United States has even meaningfully tried and we`re still not on the board.

I mean, the leap we have just taken as President Obama called Hillary Clinton last night to congratulate her for clinching the Democratic nomination, the leap we have just now in this moment taken, is only to the point where we now have a major party candidate for president who is a woman, and that is a necessary but not sufficient step to getting our first woman leader.

And so, there`s a lot to get to tonight. There`s a lot of news to cover tonight. Specifically about how and whether Hillary Clinton may end up becoming president if she can win this election.

But last night, on the last major night of competition in this year`s Democratic primary, she won New Jersey by 26 points, she won California by 13 points, which is a way bigger margin than anybody expected or any poll predicted. She clinched the majority of pledged delegates to go along with her locking up the total number of delegates she needs to clinch the nomination.

And that is still not the United States getting its first woman president. But it is in our own meager way, it is history. It is further than we have ever gone before. We just haven`t gone very far before and it says a lot about Hillary Clinton, it says a lot about her, that she`s the one who has been able to do it. That she`s been able to go further than any other woman has gone in American history, but it also says a lot about American history it has taken us to 2016 to even hit this milestone.

As to whether or not she`s going to hit the next one, whether she`s going to go all the way, news is coming in fast and furious and tonight we have new details tonight about President Obama`s planned meeting in he Oval Office tomorrow one-on-one with Senator Bernie Sanders. We`ve got a live interview in just a moment with a high ranking member of the Sanders campaign about how the Democratic Party will finish its primary. NBC News is reporting tonight that the Sanders campaign may be dropping a key part of its effort to lobby super delegates to switch support to Bernie Sanders.

On the Republican side, the car crash of Donald Trump`s candidacy continued wreaking havoc among other elected Republicans in the Republican Party today.

There`s a lot to get to. That is coming up tonight and in coming days and more.

But Margaret Chase Smith died in 1995. Shirley Chisholm died a decade later, she died New Year`s Day 2005. So, neither got to see where we are now. But when Hillary Clinton got there last night, the thing that struck me most looking back on history at the other women who went before her, who tried but did not make it, the thing that struck me most about Hillary Clinton finally getting there last night is that it may have taken 52 years since Margaret Chase Smith, but this time nobody`s laughing.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: On the very day my mother was born in Chicago, Congress was passing the 19th Amendment to the Constitution. That amendment finally gave women the right to vote and --


I really -- I really wish my mother could be here tonight. I wish she could see what a wonderful mother Chelsea has become and could meet our beautiful granddaughter Charlotte.


And, of course, I wish she could see her daughter become the Democratic Party`s nominee.




MADDOW: Picture screw ups are my favorite kind of screw ups. My second favorite kind of screw ups are same name screw ups. Tonight, the twain shall meet. This is so awesome and wrong.

One of the people who ran for president in 1964 was Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. Junior is really important because it`s definitely not this guy, his grandfather, Henry Cabot Lodge, Sr., who we showed a moment ago as a 1964 presidential candidate even though he died in 1924 and I believe that facial hair like that was illegal in 1964.

So, both black-and-white, both Henry Cabot Lodges, definitely not the same person. That`s one of the funniest family mistakes we`ve made in quite some time. We regret the error. Sorry to the Lodges.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: Del Norte, Colorado, has a population of about 3,300. Here`s Del Norte, Colorado, on a map, lovely part of Colorado. As the crow flies, it`s basically between Pueblo and Durango, but it`s in a pretty rural part of the state.

Thanks to some very good, very detailed data-mining by "The L.A. Times" recently, we can tell you the political news that the good folks of Del Norte, Colorado, sent collectively $417 total to the Bernie Sanders for president campaign. Of everybody who lives in that town, they sent $417.

So if you want to come up with a per capita Bernie Sanders donation on average, right, 3,300 people divided by $417 that`s about 13 cents per capita donated to Bernie Sanders from Del Norte, Colorado.

In Corvallis, Oregon, different story, population 20,000 in Corvallis. Folks there sent Bernie Sanders almost $60,000 collectively. So, that works out to a lot per capital. That`s $2.87 per capita donated to the Bernie Sanders campaign from Corvallis, Oregon.

But if you really want to know where people are sending their money to Bernie, it`s his home state of Vermont. If you look at the donations to Bernie Sanders` presidential campaign on a per capita basis in Vermont it averages out to every man, woman and child in that state giving him almost 10 bucks for his presidential campaign. That`s a lot when you`re talking about the whole state.

The folks who gave him the most per person throughout this campaign were the folks who know him best as a public official. His constituents in Vermont, at home, those were the people that turned out and lined the streets to greet him when he landed at the Burlington airport today in Vermont as he flew home from the California primary.


MADDOW: Bernie Sanders and his wife Jane embracing supporters in their hometown of Burlington, Vermont, this afternoon. Bernie Sanders ended up being the second most popular Democratic presidential candidate this year. But by far, it`s useful to remember that he is by far the most popular U.S. senator in this country.

That`s even before he started running for president but it`s still true now. Senator Sanders` constituents like him as a senator more than any other state likes their senator. His latest job approval rating in Vermont is 83 percent. He`s more popular with his constituents than any other senator in the country. And so, today, welcome home, Senator Sanders.

Tomorrow morning will be back to the airport as Bernie Sanders will head to Washington, D.C. for an important one-on-one meeting in the Oval Office with President Obama.

"The New York Times" reporting that the president plans to delicately nudge Senator Sanders toward a full embrace of Hillary Clinton`s presidential candidacy. There`s wide speculation there is not to say there will be any presidential endorsement for Hillary Clinton over the next couple of days.

It`s also widely expected that Bernie Sanders isn`t going anywhere any time until at least the D.C. primary happens on Tuesday.

NBC News reports tonight that Senator Bernie Sanders is holding off on something his campaign had previously planned to do today. Sanders campaign has not yet sent out a letter that his campaign had previously planned to send today to Democratic super delegates, asking those super delegates to switch their support from Secretary Clinton to Bernie Sanders. They haven`t sent that letter.

So, that particular part of the lobbying effort for super delegates, that may be slowing down. It may be stopped. But in terms of what else happens next, I don`t know. I do not know.

And, you know what, neither do you. It`s up to Senator Sanders. Anybody else who says they can predict his next actions based on something that somebody is advising him to do, or something that somebody else has done in the previous race, anybody who says they can predict what`s going to happen other than the senator himself honestly has not been paying attention to this primary this year and all of the twists and turns.

Joining us now is Nina Turner. She`s a former state senator from Ohio. She`s a prominent Bernie Sanders supporter.

Senator Turner, it`s great to see you again. I know you were probably up all night last night. Thanks for being back with us.

NINA TURNER, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: Thanks, Rachel, for having me.

MADDOW: So, it was interesting to see Senator Sanders` constituents, his hometown supporters turn out on the streets and welcome home to Burlington. As a supporter of his, somebody who is very much involved in the campaign, where do you feel like the campaign is right now? What kind of decisions are being made?

TURNER: I mean, I really believe the senator is still where he was from the beginning. I know a lot of people don`t get it when politicians mean what they say and say what they mean because so many don`t.

But Senator Bernie Sanders has been a consistent man of his word, and when he says he`s going all the way to the convention, he is going all the way. And as we saw last night, Rachel, you and Brian and others on MSNBC team, you got a chance to feel and to hear that room.

The senator gave the same speech as you know that he has given countless times about what is important in this country in terms of social justice, criminal justice, economic justice, getting big money out of politics so that the voices of every day people are not drawn -- are not drowned out.

But, so, Senator Sanders is still just as strong and committed to all of those issues as he ever has been and, Rachel, in many ways, this is his life`s work. This is not something that he just started. I think one of his colleagues in the Senate and I forget what senator said it, Senator Sanders has been saying this for the last 30 years and, you know what? Democrats in the Congress weren`t listening, so he took it to the people. And we have a people`s movement going in this country right now.

MADDOW: In terms of going to the convention, obviously, one of the things that he has achieved through this campaign is that he has good representation for the platform committee. He was able to leverage the DNC into giving a number of spots to Sanders supporters, to those key committees that are going to make decisions about the future of the party at the convention.

Is that the kind of fight that he`s taking to the convention, those sorts of internal Democratic Party decisions about the platform, about the way the primaries are run next time around, about what the party says that it stands for in the formal documents of the party.

I mean, I ask that because there isn`t -- as far just being straight to you, there isn`t a way for him to achieve the nomination on any realistic way, but there are other things he could achieve at that convention.

TURNER: Well, Rachel, he`s going all the way. He promised that.

I mean, we have over 11 million people who have voted for the senator and that`s not counting the caucuses. But you talked about him being the second most popular Democrat, I would argue he is still the first most popular Democrat and not popular just for the sake of popularity, but popular in a sense that not only was he able to get over 11 million votes, he touched over 1.5 million people through rallies all across this country because he made them believe, Rachel, he made them believe that there could be the type of leadership in this country that puts poor mammas and daddies first.

The type of leadership in this country that will say to our young children that you can go to college no matter who your parents are or not, and guess what United States of America, we`re going to follow the rest of the industrialized world and have universal health care as a right in this country.

So, it is all of those things, Rachel. It`s not just a platform because as you know, not many presidential candidates follow that platform throughout their entire service in that office. But this is about making that platform come alive and empowering people to hold their elected officials accountable for the words that are on that paper. I think that is an important first step, but it`s not the only step.

It is not just about -- I think if the Democrats want to have love and happiness, they might get some love but they`re not going to have a lot of happiness. People are awake because of Bernie Sanders. He should get up.

And 2016 is nothing like 2008. I think you might agree with me on that.

MADDOW: Well, I agree with you that no election is ever exactly like any one that came before.

But I do -- I guess what I want to know is when you talk about making that platform come alive and making it into something where the people can hold Democratic officials accountable for that, what do you mean?

I mean, I know he wanted to win the nomination but I know that he didn`t and I know that that is something that we haven`t heard from Senator Sanders yet. Officially, I expect we will hear it from him eventually, but short of getting the nomination, he has achieved a lot. And I want to know how he`s going to claim that while Hillary Clinton also claims the nomination.

TURNER: I mean, he has achieved a lot extraordinary. I mean, he was -- he`s somebody that came from Vermont and you highlighted how the folks in Vermont feel about him and his service as a senator to them, but the way that he does that is to keep the political revolution alive.

Ultimately, what happens is up to Senator Sanders but he has no minced any words about how he`s going to go all the way to this convention. But the way -- many way, a way to hold the folks accountability is we should get those words on the platform but words are important but deeds are more important.

And the way to make sure that folks are held accountable is to get those words there and to make sure that not just Democrats, but every single American knows what a Democrat said -- would say what they stand for, and actually what they execute in public policy.

Universal health care is not something that should be done incrementally. Let`s do it now. Making sure that we invest in our children. Let`s do it now, doing something about the new Jim Crow. Let`s do something right now.

So, it`s a way to measure -- it`s a way we need to measure, Rachel. I know that you know in education, there`s a midterm report and I would argue that every single voter in this country needs to have a midterm report on the people that they elect to office because these pretty words are not just going do it anymore, Rachel.

I`ve traveled this entire country with Bernie Sanders and I tell you people are hurting and there`s some people who are talking about this in a vacuum. They`re not out there on the streets with people to see that men and women laid off from jobs or people who don`t necessarily have all of the means to support have been out there every single day fighting their hearts out because of Senator Sanders mission, what he stands for and what he was fighting for, not just for the sake of him getting to the presidency, but what he`s fighting for.

MADDOW: Nina Turner, former state senator from Ohio, Bernie Sanders surrogate and one of the most eloquent embodiments of his cause in a way that you have explained it.

Senator, it`s really good to see you. Thank you very much. Stay in touch with us over these next few days. We`re all watching the drama.

TURNER: Yes, yes. Thank you so much.

MADDOW: Appreciate it. Thank you.

You know, I will say Senator Sanders did really well in the 2016 primary and not getting the nomination is not just -- is not the only outcome of this primary. The way that he was able to bring this right to the end, the number of people he was able to bring along, the way he was able to expand the conversation happening within and about the Democratic Party is something that the Democratic Party needs to figure out a way to benefit from rather than, you know, recent and want to be over because the primary doesn`t feel like it has a tidy end.

The best way this ends for the Democratic Party is for Bernie Sanders to be a welcomed and appreciated and integral part of the Democratic Party. He`s operated his whole entire career outside this Democratic Party. If this ends with him operating within it, the Democratic Party will be stronger than it has been in years. That`s my two cents.

We`ll be right back.


MADDOW: President Obama sat down with Jimmy Fallon for an interview today. It`s an interview that`s going to air tomorrow on the tonight show. And it`s a pretty funny bit.

Here`s a little bit of it.


JIMMY FALLON, COMEDIAN/TV HOST: Speaking of reality TV, I don`t know if you saw the "Celebrity Apprentice".


FALLON: It`s a great show. Yes.

Has Donald Trump called you for advice or talked to you at all? First of all, you`ve given him some pretty good advice so far, if you have, but has he called and talked to you? I would --

OBAMA: No. No, he hasn`t. No.


OBAMA: Not that I know of. No.

FALLON: Do you think the Republicans are happy with their choice?

OBAMA: We are, but I don`t know how they -- I don`t now how they`re feeling. So -- actually, you know what. That was too easy.


MADDOW: That was too easy says the president. The hard part of that answer he gets to thereafter and we`ve got that coming up.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: And now here is the thing. This man`s name is William Johnson. We have covered him a few times in the last few months.

William Johnson is a self proclaimed white nationalist. He leads a white nationalist political party. His racist political party did unsolicited robocalls for Donald Trump in a bunch of states during the Republican primary. You might remember that.

But then after doing those racist robocalls on behalf of Donald Trump, for a short time at least, William Johnson was declared an official campaign delegate from the state of California for Donald Trump. He was going to go to the Republican National Convention this summer as a Trump delegate.

Once "Mother Jones" magazine broke the news that the head of a white nationalist party was serving as a Trump delegate, the Trump campaign undesignated him as a delegate. They blamed a data base error for him being selected in the first place. Like their Excel spreadsheet, somebody deleted the column that said known "white supremacist, yes or no". Accidental, fat finger that one. Data base error.

So, now, the Trump campaign has disavowed Johnson and the white nationalist party that he runs. But that has not stopped William Johnson from remaining a big time fan of Donald Trump, and now, he has just explained why to MSNBC`s Jacob Soboroff.

Now, here`s the thing.


JACOB SOBOROFF, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: OK. So you`ve been in the news a lot.


SOBOROFF: And your political views are, you are a white nationalist.

JOHNSON: Yes, I`m a nationalist, and nationalism is becoming popular right now. Donald Trump is making it popular. We`re battling the globalism that`s been in place for the last 40 or 50 years and Donald Trump is leading the charge.

SOBOROFF: Donald Trump is making white nationalism popular.

JOHNSON: He`s making nationalism popular. I`m a white nationalist. You would call him an American nationalist.

And just like nationalism is becoming popular in the Philippines, in Egypt, and in Europe, he`s making it popular in United States.

The large influx of immigrants primarily because of the concept of globalism has destroyed the Western civilization and Donald Trump is battling that.

SOBOROFF: You are a Donald Trump delegate.

JOHNSON: I was a delegate in good standing for two hours.

SOBOROFF: For two hours.

JOHNSON: What happened was is I guess I slipped through the cracks and they approved it and then there was a lot of media coverage immediately. So, they said, oh, Johnson you are removed from the list. And so, I said, fine.

SOBOROFF: You`re not going to be now a delegate to the Republican convention.

JOHNSON: That is correct.

SOBOROFF: What is Donald Trump saying that is speaking to white nationalists? Is he saying things in language that may not be explicit but he may be giving you a signal?

JOHNSON: No, he`s explicit in his battling of globalism. We`re not going to be supporting globalism anymore and we`re supporting nationalism. The fact that he is politically incorrect, he`ll say what`s on his mind, that endears him to many people, including people of my ilk.

The fact that he wants to build a wall along the southern border, the fact that he wants to stop Muslim immigration, the fact that he wants to deport the illegal aliens. The fact that he wants to anchor babies --

SOBOROFF: When you hear a guy like Paul Manafort, his campaign consultant, sort of say, eh, he may not go that far.

JOHNSON: I don`t think it matters because what he is doing right now is so good for America that regardless of what he does once he`s elected president, it`s so good that we`re pleased with what happened.


MADDOW: Even if he doesn`t end up building the wall, what he`s doing right now is so good, it`s so good we`re so pleased with what`s happened -- so says the gentile white supremacist next door about the campaign of the Republican Party`s candidate for president this year.

And I`m not sure I can add anything more to make the importance of that sink in but that is a thing that happened today. Lord, have mercy on all of us.


MADDOW: Programming note: tomorrow night, a special guest on this show, this former top executive, with the red arrow there -- who spent years working at a high level for Donald Trump. Her name is Barbara Res. She knows Donald Trump very well in a business context. She is not supporting him for president, she now says she is ready to talk about that. So, that`s tomorrow night on this show.

Also tonight, right after this show here, on this network, on "THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL", they are going to have the full run of Lester Holt`s interview with Hillary Clinton, one of the first interview she`s done since she clinched the Democratic nomination.

So, Hillary Clinton interview with Lester Holt right after our show tonight.

And then, tomorrow night, a very close look with a woman who spent years working directly with him and who has kind of an incredible story to tell about it.

Stay with us.


MADDOW: President Obama on "The Tonight Show" just told Jimmy Fallon, initially, that Democrats are psyched that Donald Trump is the Republican nominee, told him that, initially, laughed, and then he walked that back and he ended up giving a very sober explanation of why basically nobody should be that psyched about that.

This is from the president`s conversation with Jimmy Fallon that`s going to air tomorrow night in full on "The Tonight Show" on NBC. Watch.


FALLON: Do you think the Republicans are happy with their choice?

OBAMA: We are. I don`t know -- I don`t know how they feel.


Actually, you know what -- that was too easy. But -- the truth is actually, I am worried about the Republican Party. I know that sounds, you know, you know what it sounds like.

Democracy works, this country works, when you have two parties that are serious and trying to solve problems. They have philosophical differences, and they have fierce debates and they argue and they contest elections. But at the end of the day, what you want is a healthy two-party system.

You know, you want the Republican nominee to be somebody who could do the job if they win. You want folks who understand the issues. Where you can sit across the table from them, and you have a principled argument and ultimately still move the country forward.

So, I actually am not enjoying, I haven`t been enjoying over the last seven years watching some of the things that have happened in the Republican Party, because there are some good people in the Republican Party, there are wonderful Republicans out in the country who want the best for the country and may disagree with me on some things, but are good, decent people. But what`s happened in that party, culminating in this current nomination I think is not actually good for the country as a whole. It is not something that Democrats should wish for.

And my hope is that once you get through this cycle, there is corrective action, there is center right party, and the Democratic Party be a center left party, and we start figuring out how to work together.


MADDOW: A nominee like Donald Trump is not something that Democrats should wish for. The country needs two good parties, contesting good arguments, and a healthy two-party system.

Now that Hillary Clinton has clinched the Democratic Party nomination, President Obama is going to be meeting with Bernie Sanders in the Oval Office tomorrow. We know that within the last next week or so, President Obama is going to make his endorsement and he`s going to get out on the campaign trail for the Democratic nominee. We now know that that concern for the health of the Republican Party under Donald Trump is going to be part of his pitch.


MADDOW: The Bernie Sanders meeting with President Obama in the Oval Office is scheduled for tomorrow morning at 11:15 a.m. Eastern Time. Then, at the end of the day, 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Senator Sanders is going to be holding his rally, probably a big rally at RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C.

Now, for Hillary Clinton tomorrow, there are no public events scheduled, but she is basically on watch every day now for her impending presidential endorsement.

So, everything is moving fast now, everything is a little bit unpredictable now. Keep it here with us on MSNBC.


Good evening, Lawrence.