Show: MTP DAILY Date: June 15, 2017 Guest: Larry Sabato, Jeff Flake, Aditi Roy, Yamiche Alcindor, Jennifer Palmieri, Matthew Continetti
NICOLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: That does it for our hour. I`m Nicole Wallace. "MTP DAILY" starts right now. Hi, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD, MSNBC HOST: Hi, Nicole.
WALLACE: you know, there`s a parade going on right now in Oakland.
TODD: A parade. A parade. Well, I`m glad to see it`s in Oakland. I`m sorry the Warriors don`t like Oakland so well that they want to move to San Francisco.
WALLACE: Well, you know, you are not a very good loser is all I`m saying.
TODD: I`m a terrible loser. I`m a terrible loser.
WALLACE: Terrible. It`s a guy thing. Geez, lose with grace.
TODD: Oh, yes, make it gender. Now I`m in trouble when I get home.
WALLACE: The (INAUDIBLE) always have next year.
TODD: Fair enough. Thank you, Nicole.
If it`s Thursday, it`s Mueller time.
(voice-over): Tonight, special counsel, Robert Mueller, now investigating the president for possible obstruction of justice, as we learn more about Mr. Trump`s questioning of all of the evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: It`s not a witch-hunt, no. I mean, I think that, you know, he`s got a job to do.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Clearly, he`s flirting with obstruction of justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Plus, Congressman Steve Scalise, still in critical condition after yesterday`s shooting. A nation still shocked but briefly united.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Steve, in his own way, may have brought some unity to our long-divided country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Senator Jeff Flake joins us live ahead of tonight`s Congressional baseball game.
And what Virginia`s primaries this week tell us about which party may win and about the national mood more than a year before the mid-terms.
This is MTP DAILY and it starts right now.
(on camera): Good evening, I`m Chuck Todd back here in Washington and welcome to MTP DAILY.
We begin tonight by offering our prayers for the speedy recovery of Republican Congressman Steve Scalise. He remains in critical condition after yesterday`s horrific shooting while practicing with his colleagues for tonight`s Congressional baseball game which will be played as scheduled.
And we`re expecting to hear from Democratic Congressman Cedric Richmond, who is actually a very close friend of Scalise`s, in just a minute. Congressman Richmond was just at the hospital where Scalise is being treated. And we`re going to bring you his remarks as soon as we see him.
Folks, yesterday`s incident violently thrust the issues of our toxic political climate into focus. And there is hope that this environment gets getter but the prospects, frankly, are daunting. And the latest political bombshell reverberating through the Washington Capital today is, perhaps, strong evidence that our toxic politics might get worse before they can get better.
A former senior intelligence official tells NBC News that special counsel Bob Mueller is indeed investigating President Trump for the possible crime of obstruction of justice. This confirms reports in both "The Washington Post" and "The Wall Street Journal."
It also comes just one week after ousted Director James Comey testified he was directed to drop a part of the investigation into Russia, specifically the Michael Flynn part.
This official says Mueller wants to talk to additional folks, including the director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats, and the National Security Agency chief admiral, Mike Rogers, and actually one of Rogers` former deputies.
NBC News and others have reported that Coats and Rogers refused the president`s request to publicly clear him and his campaign of colluding with Russia. But perhaps the bigger news if it`s even possible is that President Trump reportedly questioned the intelligence community`s assessment that Russia interfered in the 2016 election.
I`m going to pause here. We have Cedric Richmond and we want to get to him and find out an update on Congressman Scalise. Let`s go there now.
REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D), LOUISIANA: And just a little history on it. The game has been in existence for over 100 years. And, in times of war, we would not play. But for the most part, it`s -- we`re well over 50 baseball games. And if I`m correct, Democrats have the lead.
And since I`ve been here, it was Steve and I`s chance to go after each other on the field. In fact, when he was handed majority whip, he handed out Marucci bats to his entire whip team. Fancy, Louisiana made red bats. Because the Republicans would never pitch to me in a game, I actually took his fancy red bat to the plate with me because they were going to walk me anyway.
And I remember him screaming from the dugout that that bat was expensive and it`s not to be used in a game. And I said, to beat Republicans, we don`t need to use it.
But after yesterday`s incident, it really put a different spotlight on the game. And it`s one of the areas where Republicans and Democrats come together for a good cause, the Boys and Girls Club, the Literacy Project, and now the Nationals Baseball Academy which is similar to the Urban Youth Academy in New Orleans.
I will tell you that we will miss Steve on the field but Steve has a long fight ahead of him. And the good thing is, I know Steve and I know that he is a fighter. And whether that fight is for the next two weeks, two months or two years, we know that he will fight all the way to the end.
[17:05:06] When we got the news of the shooting at the Republican baseball practice, we were at our Democratic baseball practice. And I was there with my three-year-old.
And Joe Barton who coaches the Republicans was at the Republican practice with his 10-year-old. And it just reminds you that we signed up for this, as elected officials, and we put ourselves out there so that we could do what we call public service and contribute back to the country. But it reminds you that our families didn`t.
So, as I thought about Steve`s wife, Jennifer, and his two children, it reminds you that they didn`t sign up for this. But the other part tells us is that we have a real mental health crisis in this country.
And whether it`s the rhetoric or all a bunch of other things, this is not the country that -- we know it`s not the country that we sacrificed to make a more perfect union. This country is probably on the verge of going backwards, in terms of peace and tranquility and all of those things. But, nevertheless, we will continue with the game tonight.
TODD: All right, Cedric Richmond giving a very limited update I think on the Congressman`s -- on the Congressman`s fight here. Medically, totally understandable, keeping a lot of that private, as you would understand and, of course, talking about the history of the game, itself, there. Any other additional information he provides, we will bring it to you as well.
Let`s go back to the other big news of today. And that was President Trump reportedly went to the NSA and questioned the intelligence community`s assessment that Russia interfered in the 2016 election. And did so in a phone call with the chief over at the NSA, Admiral Mike Rogers.
The call appeared to raise concerns at the NSA because it was documented in a memo by Rogers` deputy director, Richard Ledgett. "The Wall Street Journal" reports that, quote, "during the call, the president questioned the veracity of the intelligence community`s judgment that Russia had interfered with the election. And then, tried to persuade Mr. Rogers to say there was no evidence of collusion between his campaign and Russian officials."
Obviously, none of that has happened publicly and Admiral Rogers hasn`t done that. The reporting, of course, raises some serious questions. Didn`t Mr. Trump want them to walk back the intelligence? We`re going to speak with one of the reporters who broke this story in just a moment.
The president`s outside counsel responded to the news by weirdly not denying the fact that there is an obstruction of justice investigation now so they went after the leaks and not disputing the reporting itself. In fact, the lawyer said this. The FBI leak of information regarding the president is outrageous and inexcusable and illegal.
The president today lashed out against the special counsel. He called the investigation a witch-hunt, again, and he seemed to attack Mueller`s team by calling them, quote, "very bad and conflicted people."
The president is also pushing this narrative, that part of the investigation is somehow over. Quote, "They made up a phony collusion with the Russians story, found zero proof. So, now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. Nice."
Folks, by all indications, in our own reporting, the investigation into Trump Russia collusion has not been closed. If anything, it`s been expanded. And guess what? They can walk and chew gum at the same time. Just ask the guys who ran the investigation up until last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM COTTON (R), ARKANSAS: Do you believe Donald Trump colluded with Russia?
JAMES COMEY, FORMER DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: That`s a question I don`t think I should answer in open setting. That`s a question that`ll be answered by the investigation, I think.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: The big picture here for Trump is that this investigation is metastasizing well beyond what Russia did. It now involves the president, his campaign, his former campaign manager and his former national security adviser. Investigators want to talk to Jared Kushner and the top intelligence chiefs, and they`ve already got the public testimony from the former FBI director.
And now that this is inside the White House, there`s a lot of folks that work with the president that may find themselves called to testify to Mueller`s investigation which means what? More lawyers and more people involved.
Let`s return, though, to the big scoop in "The Wall Street Journal." That the president`s conversation with his NSA chief wasn`t just about trying to convince Comey to back off. I`m joined now by Paul Sonne who covers national security defense and foreign policy for "The Wall Street Journal." He was also a Moscow correspondent for them as well.
Paul, welcome to the show.
PAUL SONNE, REPORTER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Thanks for having me.
TODD: I want to talk specifically on this phone call. We knew earlier that the president -- other reporting that the president had asked both Dan Coats, DNI, and Mike Rogers, at NSA, to see if they could convince Comey to back down on Mike Flynn. But it looks like this conversation was more than that. Explain.
[17:10:00] SONNE: We what we understand is after that clip from what we just heard from James Comey, after he came out and said that the investigation will determine whether or not there was any collusion between the campaign and Russia.
We understand that Trump did, as you say, contact the director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats, and Admiral Mike Rogers, the head of the National Security Agency.
And in a phone call with Mike Rogers, he asked that Mike Rogers come out and say that there`s no evidence so far of collusion between the campaign and Russia.
But also during that conversation, he expressed skepticism over the intelligence community`s assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election.
TODD: I assume, if he had a basis of why he doesn`t believe it, it would have been reported by you. I mean, was there a -- do your sources not say what -- did the president have a rationale for why he questioned the Intelligence Committee on this?
SONNE: From what we understand, and we have limited information on this, is that he was, sort of, asking to be walked through again why it is that the intelligence community unanimously --
TODD: Is so sure.
SONNE: -- is so sure about this -- the conclusion that they came to that Russia did play a role in intervening in last year`s election.
And that, in addition to that, he was trying to convince Admiral Rogers to come out and say publicly that there was no evidence, at the present time, of collusion between his campaign and Russia. Something that he had pressed with Jim Comey as well.
TODD: All right. So, we have Jim Comey meets with the president the first time and decides he`s going to document every interaction. Obviously, NSA head Mike Rogers felt the same way. He felt the need to document it.
So, is his deputy with him at the time, during this call with the president?
SONNE: Yes. So, from what we understand, he was privy to this call. This is the NSA deputy, Rick Ledger, who`s a career NSA employee. And he wrote memos documenting -- or at least one memo, documenting that phone call between the president and NSA head Mike Rogers.
And we understand that the Senate Intelligence Committee wants to get ahold of that memo. Would like to have more information from Rick Ledger who is the NSA deputy, he since retired, on what transpired during that meeting, what the president asked Admiral Rogers to do, and what exactly was discussed.
TODD: This is quite a paper trail that`s already being developed, if you`re looking to build an obstruction of justice case. There`s suddenly Comey memos and now Rogers` memo.
SONNE: Right. So, what you would assume that Robert Mueller would do is look not only at the memos of -- that Jim Comey has already said that he submitted to him, but also look more broadly about what was the -- what was the president asking other people in his administration to do and why?
TODD: There is one person in this, sort of, trio you never hear about. We know the president apparently asked Dan Coats to do something. We know the president asked Mike Rogers to do something.
It`s hard to believe that he didn`t also make a similar request to Mike Pompeo, head of the CIA. Yet, Mike Pompeo has somehow stayed out of these -- out of this reporting.
SONNE: I believe it has been reported that Mike Pompeo was in the meeting with Dan Coats. So, in the meeting with Dan Coats where that was mentioned. I think the reporting said that everyone was asked to --
TODD: So, it`s inevitable -- while they brought up -- while there was a -- that Coats and Rogers -- it`s inevitable that probably every -- a similar request was made of Pompeo. And, at some point, he`s going to be brought forward as well.
SONNE: Well, I haven`t seen any reporting on that, but certainly we know he was in the room with Dan Coats.
TODD: Well, all right. Paul Sonne with a -- yet another advancement in the story. Thanks very much.
SONNE: Thanks, Chuck.
TODD: Appreciate it. From "The Wall Street Journal."
Folks, with the president under investigation for possible obstruction of justice, it`s worth noting that Mr. Trump`s closing argument in the 2016 election was that his foe, Hillary Clinton, not him, was be the subject of endless investigations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hillary is likely to be under investigation for many years, probably concluding in a criminal trial. The work of government would grind to a halt if she were ever elected. She`ll be in court for her entire tenure.
Hillary has engaged in a criminal massive enterprise and coverups, like probably nobody ever before. If she were to win, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis. We could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.
Honestly, look, it is going to be virtually impossible for her to govern.
The investigations into her crimes will go on for a long, long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: A little more breaking news here. NBC News has just confirmed that Vice President Mike Pence has now hired his own outside counsel to handle anything having to do with Russia.
Let`s bring in tonight`s panel. Jennifer Palmieri was the communications director for the Obama White House and the Clinton campaign. Yamiche Alcindor is a Reporter with "The New York Times" and is an MSNBC Contributor. Matthew Continetti is the Editor-in-Chief with "The Washington Free Beacon."
I want to start, guys, with the president went on an unusual afternoon tweet storm. Where usually there`s either the morning or there`s the evening. But this afternoon and it is all Mueller related here.
[17:15:07] Tweet number one at 3:43 Eastern time. Why is it that Hillary Clinton`s family and Dems dealings with Russia are not looked at but my non-dealings are? 3:56. Crooked H destroyed phones with hammer, bleached e-mails, and husband meet with A.G. days before she was cleared. And they talk about obstruction.
Matthew Continetti, I want to give you guys a little bit of insight about what I thought today was going to -- what -- how much focus on Russia. How much focus on the tragedy that happened yesterday and this fight -- that Steve Scalise is clearly fighting for his life here. And the president decided to make sure the focus went right back on Russia.
MATTHEW CONTINETTI, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "THE WASHINGTON FREE BEACON": Well, I think "The Washington Post" decided.
TODD: No doubt. But the president decided to --
CONTINETTI: To follow Mueller`s leak.
TODD: Yes.
CONTINETTI: And to say that, yes, the president is under investigation.
TODD: Do you know it`s a Mueller leak?
CONTINETTI: Someone close to the investigation. I won`t --
TODD: Yes, fair enough. I did say that for all our favorite critics out there.
CONTINETTI: President Trump playing to form.
TODD: Yes.
CONTINETTI: In the art of the deal, you never let the critics get a shot without firing back.
TODD: Yes.
CONTINETTI: And so, he`s firing back. We`re moving from a reality T.V. presidency into a court T.V. presidency.
And so, all those shows on HLN, you know, about legal battles with attorneys. And what`s unusual is this is the subject of the investigation, inserting himself. But I think it is a picture of our future.
TODD: You know, Jen, a lot of folks on the right who are not yet -- they`re very skeptical of the president but are not yet to jump on -- jump on him.
JENNIFER PALMIERI, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, OBAMA WHITE HOUSE, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: Right. They`re not going to start the civil war.
TODD: That`s right. Are noting, hey, there`s nothing wrong with Donald Trump borrowing a page from the Clinton playbook. And the White House (INAUDIBLE), you know what? Aggressively go after the special counsel. Make it a part -- the more partisan the special counsel feels in the atmosphere, the less some of the hits sting.
Is that a Clinton strategy? Is that a fair reading of what the Clinton strategy was in the late 1990s?
PALMIERI: I think that it was -- I think that it was true that it was partisan but that`s because it was actually partisan because the underlying matter wasn`t a matter of national security the way that this underlying matter is which is about Russia trying to influence the election.
So -- but I think that a difference between the Clinton strategy and this strategy is, in my day, in the Clinton White House, people like me got out of the way. And you did what lawyers said was in the best interest of protecting the president and making sure that you were not putting them in legal jeopardy.
And he has a lawyer that is -- that lets the client drive the strategy and is putting himself in more (INAUDIBLE) jeopardy.
TODD: (INAUDIBLE.)
YAMICHE ALCINDOR, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I think there`s -- is he letting him drive the strategy or is this what Donald Trump does? As someone who`s watched him now for -- as the nation has watched him, this is what you expect Donald Trump to do when he feels backed into a corner. When he`s thinking of himself as now being under investigation.
As -- and when you`re thinking of the fact that when he fired James Comey, James Comey had told him he wasn`t under investigation.
And then, by his own behavior, by his own actions, by the fact that he went on T.V. and said that he fired James Comey because of this Russia thing, that has now brought on another investigation with him personally. So, you also, I think, have the president feeling the heat in a way that he`s hadn`t before.
TODD: Matthew, we are at a point, though. Now, the vice president felt like he had to get outside counsel. You assume Rod Rosenstein is going to feel and Jeff Sessions may feel they need outside counsel if they`re dealing -- because they, you know --
PALMIERI: They probably already have it.
TODD: They may already have it. You`ve got to have anybody that may have been in the room with the president when he was making these directives to the NSA. It -- this is -- this is what -- this is how an investigation paralyzes a White House.
CONTINETTI: Why many Republicans didn`t want a special counsel appointed in the first place. Because whether it`s in the Clinton presidency, whether it`s the Reagan presidency, the George H.W. Bush presidency or the George W. Bush presidency, once you have a prosecutor with very little oversight and a lot of resources, these investigations take on a life of their own.
And so, we face years of the president and his team being dogged by a roving investigator.
PALMIERI: Although Trump`s doing his best to accelerate that process.
TODD: That`s what -- I know, that`s the part -- that`s the head scratcher.
PALMIERI: That is. I mean, even in the last week, it has accelerated. And I thought the lawyer statement last week was really -- was really reckless.
But now, you have -- there`s three big developments, it seems, just, like, in the last day. Obviously, the horrible shooting and that seems to have sobered up the Hill just in general, and including Republicans. You have news of obstruction of justice investigation.
And then, you see, you know, why do we know about the -- what`s happened at the NSA? Why do we know that the NSA turned President Trump`s request down? These people from the cabinet are coming out to protect their own reputations. And this seems to be -- so, the new -- you know, the -- it seems to be gathering (INAUDIBLE.)
TODD: In an odd way, Yamiche, the more the president seems to put pressure on folks to help him, the more they seem to get -- like, oh, I better document everything.
[17:20:02] ALCINDOR: Yes. Because in some ways, you think that if he`s putting pressure on people, that people understand that, at the end of the day, Donald Trump is going to be loyal to himself. James Comey learned that.
People around him, Chris Christie. People that -- people that were around him at certain points for certain reasons and were then used up for all they could be used up for and then kind of thrown out of the White House.
And I think that people understand that. It`s the reason why James Comey started taking notes as soon as he met with him because his gut told him that he wanted to document that.
PALMIERI: Except Mike Flynn. He continues to protect Mike Flynn.
TODD: All right. Jennifer, Yamiche, Matthew, stick around. Coming up, amid all of the news this week, there was one story we haven`t had much time to discuss. Those big primaries in Virginia and what they could tell us about the national political movement. We`ll have that later in the show.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TODD: Coming up, after the day we all feared might come, will anything really change? I`m going to talk to Senator Jeff Flake, the center fielder, by the way, on the Congressional Republican baseball team. (INAUDIBLE.) He was on the field when the shooting began and helped treat Congressman Scalise before the ambulances arrived. We`ll more from him and more MTP DAILY in 60 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TODD: Welcome back.
The shooting in Virginia yesterday morning eclipsed another big story out of that state, the beginning of the general election for governor.
We saw a surprisingly competitive race on Tuesday night, but not on the closely watched Democratic side. Lieutenant Governor Ralph Northam defeated former Congressman Tom Perriello by a pretty decent margin, 12 points, much larger than many expected.
Northam was the -- call him the establishment candidate. Perriello was backed by Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. He probably was the more progressive of the two. The two were scheduled to hold a unity rally yesterday but, of course, it was cancelled after the shooting.
As for the Republicans, their contest turned out to be much closer than expected. Former RNC chairman, Ed Gillespie, barely survived the challenge from Corey Stewart who, of course, ended up making the preservation of confederate monuments a pillar of his campaign.
[17:25:01] By the way, Stewart was, of course, Trump`s Virginia state chairman. For both the Democrats and the Republicans, at least for now, the political center held.
But the big take away from this one, Virginia doesn`t look like a purple state anymore. Just look at the turnout. Over 175,000 more ballots cast on the Democratic side versus what we saw on the Republican side. And, boy, some of the turnout in northern Virginia for Republicans had to be alarming.
We`re joined now by the expert on Virginia politics, Larry Sabato. Larry, they wrote an expert on Virginia politics. And I know it is the expert because you`re the director of the Center for Politics at University of Virginia and keeper of the Sabato Crystal Ball. Mr. Sabato, good to see you, sir.
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Nice to see you, Chuck. Thank you.
TODD: So, let`s start big picture here. It seems that the running theory as to why Northam had an much easier time, and that race got called so quickly and Gillespie didn`t, was essentially a whole bunch of call them former Tom Davis constituents.
And a former moderate Republican Congressman from Fairfax County that, basically, the remainder northern Virginia Republicans said, I`m picking a Democratic ballot. Do you buy it?
SABATO: That was part -- no, not really. That was part of it. But this was much bigger than that. And, Chuck, you and I have been around politics a long time. People underestimate, even in this era, the impact that local officials can have on elections.
And Ralph Northam cleaned up. He had the entire Democratic delegation in both Houses of general assembly and all but one Congressman. The governor, the two U.S. Senators, they produced for him. It made a big difference.
Perriello ran a very aggressive and inspired race, in a lot of ways, very creative. But his endorsements and his money came primarily from outside the state. That was interesting but that doesn`t influence Virginia voters very much.
TODD: Well, then what do you -- what do you -- explain -- and that`s fine on the Northam side. And I buy that, particularly when you look at the African-American turnout in -- for Northam on behalf of Northam, particularly in Hampton Rhodes (ph).
But let`s talk about this Republican turnout and what it looked like. I guess what was surprising to me was how close Gillespie and Stewart were in northern Virginia. And, to me, that was the -- that was the evidence that said, huh. That means whatever Republicans were here, they weren`t as moderate as we know they normally are.
SABATO: The Republican Party in Virginia, just like nationally, has moved further and further to the right. And Virginia is, especially now, a moderate state. You called it blue. I call it purple with a blue tinge. It`s more blue in presidential elections but it still can be blue in state- wide elections with the lower turnout.
Look, the Republican base now is owned, in part, probably large part, by the Trumpians. The people who supported Trump. He carried the primary in Virginia. And the rest of the Republicans, if they`re moderates, they either don`t participate in party primaries anymore or they`re voting Democratic in the fall.
TODD: Larry, I remember there was a bit of a debate about whether the primary -- whether the Republicans should pick their nominee via primary or via convention. Convention didn`t work so hot the last time, so I think there was a push for primary.
Had there been a convention, would we be talking about Republican nominee Corey Stewart?
SABATO: It`s very, very possible because as conservative as the primary electorate was on the Republican side, a convention would have been a distilled group of very conservative individuals, probably with many of the localities in their caucuses and conventions overwhelmed by people who like Corey Stewart because of his confederate issue or his strong anti- immigration stance, which, by the way, those stances are not popular at all statewide in Virginia. They`re going to boomerang on Republicans in the fall.
TODD: Here`s another thing that I think is -- a lot of Virginians are going to have to get used to, which is going to feel more nationalized than any gubernatorial race we`ve seen in a while. Rather than national folks covering local issues in the Virginia race because it`s the only game in town, that the Virginia candidates are going to go national. Is that -- is that how you expect fall to play out?
SABATO: I think that will be a big part of it. There will be some state issues. But, look, on the Democratic side, why wouldn`t you go national? Donald Trump is in the mid-30s in Virginia. He is deeply unpopular with the general electorate.
A Democrat would be crazy not to focus on Trump. Northam focused on Trump, as did Perriello in the primary. It`s going to continue all the way to November.
TODD: And what`s that Gillespie -- how does Gillespie walk this line?
SABATO: Well, I -- you know, good luck to him. A lot of things can happen between now and November. He`ll have tons of money because the Republican Governors Association usually is much better funded than the Democratic counterpart.
And, as you said, there`s no place else to go. New Jersey is a gimme for the Democrats. So, I think the RGA will pump a lot of money into Virginia.
It will turn very negative which the Democratic primary was not. This is a unified party. The Republicans are divided but not the Democrats.
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS POLITICAL DIRECTOR, "MEET THE PRESS DAILY" SHOW HOST: That was fascinating, all that money on the Democratic side and they did not go after each other. Anyway, Larry Sabato, the expert on Virginia politics. Always good to see you, sir.
SABATO: Thank you, Chuck.
TODD: It`s just like the Ohio State University, we`ll call it the University of Virginia, the Larry Sabato. Thank you.
SABATO: Okay, thanks.
TODD: Senator Jeff Flake who was on the field yesterday when the shooting happened joins me in a few minutes from the Congressional Baseball Game. We`re going to talk to him, so keep it here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TODD: Welcome back to "MTP Daily." Will anything really change after yesterday`s horrific baseball practice shooting or will we continue down the path of toxic politics where each side hunkers down in their separate corners in an echo chamber of their own beliefs?
Since the shooting, members on both sides of the aisle are talking about tempering of the red hot rhetoric we all grown accustomed to with some Republicans pointing to the very top of their own party to help lead the way.
(START VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will Republicans do you think and should Republicans do you think expect more from President Trump in the days moving forward?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, of course, I would like to see the president stay off Twitter. I think we have to step up, assume a leadership role, and get away from the personalization of our politics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do think when you look at the overall negative tone of politics in this country, everybody shares the blame, including the president of the united states and his campaign tone and some of the things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would argue that the president is at least partially, not in any way totally, but partially to blame for demons that have been unleashed. (END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Just to remind you, all of those voices you heard were Republican voices from Capitol Hill. Joining me now from Nationals Park, the site of tonight`s Congressional Baseball Game, is Arizona Senator Jeff Flake who was on the ball field when the shooting happened. Senator Flake, thanks for coming on, sir.
JEFF FLAKE, JUNIOR U.S. SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA: Thanks for having me on.
TODD: I know you saw Congressman Scalise today. Share what you can, share what you`re comfortable telling us about his condition and about his status. I know that they want some privacy for the family.
FLAKE: I wasn`t there today at the hospital. Cheryl and I were there yesterday evening and met with the family. But the condition as I understand it today is as the doctors described it last night, significant challenges ahead, but obviously he is doing the best he can and the doctors are as well. He is in critical condition, but we all are praying that he will pull through.
TODD: You have been -- you tried to stand out as somebody who will tamp down rhetoric, you have done it frankly for the last two years, possibly at a political peril to yourself at times in your own state of Arizona.
Do you have -- you always have hope, you`re a pretty optimistic guy, but be realistic with me, how do you sustain the feelings that everybody does have right now in that stadium, on Capitol Hill where there`s a sense of we`ve got to sober up as two political parties?
FLAKE: You`re right. We have seen this kind of thing happen in the past. We do better for a few weeks. But then we`re back to normal. I hope that the new normal is not, you know, here to stay. I`ve got to think, and I wouldn`t continue in this profession if I didn`t believe that we can do better and will do better.
There will be a time I believe where most Americans will reject this kind of politics and personal destruction, just the awful rhetoric that both parties employ. I just got to think that there will be a rejection of it at some point. I hope that`s now.
TODD: I have to say this morning and early this afternoon we heard from a parade of Republicans, you just may have heard some of those clips, it was Mark Sanford, John Thune, and they all had a similar notion, they would like the president to do more.
Part of doing more is actually doing something less, tweeting. And within an hour ago, sir, he went off on a tangent on the investigation. Why do you think the president does not heed all of your calls? You all politely ask him not to do this. Do you have to stop being polite?
FLAKE: No, I think that`s the only thing we can do, we got to lead by example frankly. We`ve got to do the same, tone down the rhetoric in the language that we use, and I do hope the president will do the same. We saw a campaign where on all sides it was frankly pretty ugly and we`ve got to change it. I hope the president will lead and I hope that we will in congress as well.
I mean, there`s a lot that we can do. We just got to stop ascribing the worst motives to our opponents and debate ideas. It sounds simple, we always say that, but we`ve got to do it. We got to discipline ourselves. If we will, I believe that the public will be with us and that they`ll demand that of others. So, I hope that`s what we`ll do.
TODD: When you say you want the president to lead, is there some specific you think he could do that would maybe be a positive jolt to the system?
FLAKE: Well, things that he could stop doing, you know, referring to others in the other party as losers or using other language that just isn`t becoming. It`s done on our side as well, and certainly the president`s opponents use that kind of language as well going after him, and I think they ought to stop that.
But, I think as president of the United States, you share or you have a unique ability to reach the public and to say hey, this point forward, we`re going to change and I`m going to change. I think that would be welcomed and I think it would rub off all down the line. I hope that it happens.
TODD: You know, when we originally scheduled this interview, we actually scheduled it a few days ago, people might not know, but I want to point it out there because we were going to talk Cuba. I know the president is going to make some major changes in our relationship, U.S. official relationship with Cuba travel, something you`re not for. Is there majority support in the senate and house to push back against some of the president`s changes?
FLAKE: I can only speak for the senate. We have a bill to lift the travel ban completely, to have no restrictions at all. That has 55 co-sponsors. If it came to a vote on the senate floor, I am convinced we would be between 65 and 70 votes in favor of that.
If what the president is talking about diminishes the rights of Americans to travel to Cuba and rolls back on the freedoms that they now enjoy to travel to Cuba, I don`t think that`s good for Americans and it`s not good for the Cuban people either.
So, I hope that what the president is rolling out and we`re hearing different things, different assessment of what is actually in this package, but if it diminishes the freedom that Americans have to travel to Cuba, it will not be good for Americans or Cubans.
TODD: Is there though -- is your issue that Mitch McConnell, John Thune, and John Cornyn, do they want this enough that they`re willing to put it on the floor?
FLAKE: I don`t know. I`m certainly going to try to use every vehicle I can, usually that`s during the appropriations process where it is a more open process.
TODD: Right.
FLAKE: . to get a vote like this to the floor. So, we`ll try but I hope that the administration will simply say hey, let`s do what works, what is good for the population of Cubans that has enjoyed new freedoms, particularly to be entrepreneurs because of more American travel and more remittances to the island. That`s been a good thing for the freedom of Cubans, not a bad thing.
TODD: All right. Senator Flake, go out there, have a good time. I know everybody is going to be -- you have a few more eyeballs on you guys today.
FLAKE: Pressure is really on.
TODD: Little more pressure.
FLAKE: Thousands of people.
TODD: I think there`s one person we`re all rooting for and it`s Steve Scalise.
FLAKE: Yes.
TODD: Anyway, senator, thanks very much.
FLAKE: You bet, we all are. Thank you.
TODD: You got it. We`ll be right back.
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TODD: Up next, exploring the secrecy around the senate Republicans` health care plan. First, here`s Aditi Roy with the "CNBC Market Wrap."
ADITI ROY, GENERAL ASSIGNMENT REPORTER FOR CNBC: Thanks so much, Chuck, good to see you. Stocks close lower on Wall Street after tech stocks took another tumble dragging down the market. Investors are also still digesting the FED decision to raise interest rates and unwind it`s 4.5-trillion dollar balance sheet.
The Dow lost 14 points, the S&P shed 5 points, the Nasdaq fell 29. Snap closed 4.92 percent lower at $17 a share its IPO price. Shares of Google`s alphabet also fell after getting downgraded by analysts at Canaccord Genuity. That`s it from CNBC, first in business worldwide.
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TODD: Welcome back. Tonight, I`m obsessed with the secrecy surrounding the effort by senate Republicans to put together a health care bill that is intended to replace Obamacare. Here is what I`m talking about. This is a recent headline from Axios. Senate GOP won`t release draft health care bill.
Story went on to say Republicans don`t want Democrats or the media picking apart the bill before it goes to the floor. And really since most bills are the subject of public debate, it is not surprising to hear criticism of a bill being written and debated in private.
(START VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The law that was written behind closed doors over there in Harry Reid`s office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was done with the White House, small room of just a few senators.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leadership work behind closed doors, out of public view.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Written behind closed doors without input from anyone in an effort to jam it past not only the senate but the American people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no conversation and no one knows what`s in this bill but one senator. (END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: And then there`s this, "using the budget reconciliation process in the senate for example, would limit debate to only 20 hours and restrict the ability of senators to amend a proposal that is intended to steer one- sixth of our economy in a new direction. It would be a disservice to the American people and our nation."
That was by Senator Orrin Hatch. By now, you probably figured out that all of these folks are Republicans criticizing how Democrats put together Obamacare. Look, hypocrisy is no stranger to either side of the aisle in the Capitol Hill.
To be sure Democrats have the capacity to be engaged today in actions that outraged them than yesterday, but perhaps Republicans owe us more than secret meetings about an issue that effects millions simply because they don`t want to hear a little criticism. I know, you`re shocked there`s gambling going on here. We`ll be right back.
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TODD: Time for "The Lid." Our panel is back. Jennifer Palmieri, Yamiche Alcindor, Matthew Continetti. Yamiche, you wrote a story today that I thought was a very -- it turned out to be more provocative than I think it was intended to be if you just follow you on social media, but it was a very sober look at sort of this is a challenge for the Sanders movement.
Challenge not only for Bernie Sanders politician and national political leader, by the way, the most popular elected official in the country if you just look at it by poll numbers, but it`s a real challenge for him because here is somebody who ascribed to be a Bernie guy, a Bernie-clatter (ph) who took matters into his own hands.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR, NATIONAL REPORTER FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES: It`s a really tough test mainly because very quickly there were conservatives going after progressives saying look, this is the kind of decisions that you`re making, the rhetoric that you`re using is really helping people and really motivating people to then take this into their hands.
I should say of course Bernie Sanders and his followers are someone who spent more than years with them now. They are very peaceful people. He`s always been talking about a peaceful political revolution. His language is still very, I would say, it`s very critical and very pointed.
TODD: Can be apocalyptic at times.
ALCINDOR: It can be apocalyptic at times. TODD: Which is just like Trump.
ALCINDOR: When you think about the fact that he called.
TODD: Apocalyptic stuff.
ALCINDOR: . and he called just on Saturday, he called Trump one of the most dangerous -- perhaps the most dangerous and worst president in history. That got a lot of angry progressives saying, why would you quote Bernie saying that at this moment? Because he said it and because that is the language that he uses.
Bernie Sanders of course he`s popular because of his policies. He`s also popular because he`s off the cuff and people feel he says things very plainly and very aggressively. There are now a lot of progressives I`ve been talking to saying this is a moment where we have to figure out and say what is our role.
JENNIFER PALMIERI, FORMER CLINTON CAMPAIGN COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Bernie doesn`t say lock her up.
TODD: No, no, no.
PALMIERI: It`s the darkest presidency we`ve had.
TODD: This is about Senator Sanders.
PALMIERI: Yeah.
TODD: The Clinton campaign was not happy with how Bernie`s supporters and Sanders would try to tell them to stop that language.
PALMIERI: Yes, we had.
TODD: Their campaign was not happy.
PALMIERI: We had a lot of virtual aggression at a minimum, and, you know, just aggression. It`s not pleasant what it is. There was a lot of ugliness. And I think when this happens in your -- not necessarily your name, but when it happens on the left, when violence is done and it`s done by somebody who has political motivations, there is more of an impetus on you to speak against it.
I think the president is driving a lot of violence and connecting that to politics and that is a very dangerous thing. But when it happens this way, I think it is incumbent on the left to be even more aggressive in calling it out. Senator Sanders has to decide what that means for him, but I do think that is an important moment. TODD: How would you say he`s handled himself so far?
MATTHEW CONTINETTI, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF OF THE WASHINGTON FREE BEACON, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR TO THE WEEKLY STANDARD: Bernie was very quick to come out and denounce and separate himself from the activity. You know, he`s not having a very good time right now. His candidate lost in Montana. He has this to deal with.
The Democrats are going to -- if they win in Georgia next week, it`s a candidate who he refuses to endorse for being too centrist. He`s kind of conducting a war in the Democratic Party and this adds I think to his kind of burden as he does it. For the most popular politician in America, he`s not having a very good few weeks.
ALCINDOR: And I think that while Senator Sanders is, of course, he shouldn`t be blamed for this. It`s kind of plain to say that of course not -- he`s not inside of this violence. He`s never even come close to saying that you should be violent. But there is this language that I think has happened on the left where they say we`re not as bad as the Trump supporters.
The Trump supporters are punching people. All we`re doing is harassing people. All we`re doing is being really man to people. We`re not actually physically hurting people. There is a middle point there where you say, okay, you might not be as bad as the person you think is the worst, but you also have to look in the mirror and say what is your role.
PALMIERI: Yea, that is like when President Clinton says about seeking peace, it`s some people who have legitimate grievances, willing to put that aside and seek peace. In the left, we have legitimate grievances (inaudible) which we race to the bottom to behave just like Trump supporters.
TODD: You know, look, all it takes is a good thing if we can hear our grievances with words. That is what separates us from the rest of the world or it used to. Jennifer, Yamiche, Matthew, thank you very much. After the break, a dubious distinction for the current governor of New Jersey.
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TODD: Well, in case you missed it, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is very close to making history tonight. And not for the right reason. New poll from the Quinnipiac University shows his approval rating is at just 15 percent in New Jersey. Let me repeat that, 15, 1-5. That means he`s one of the very few Republican elected statewide office holders that is less popular than President Trump in their state.
We think maybe there is only one other, Kansas Governor Sam Brownback considering his own party threw him under the bus on taxes. President Trump has an approval rating in New Jersey of just 28 percent, but it is nearly twice as high as Christie`s. It`s an atrocious Christie number that got us thinking this. How low can a governor`s approval rating go?
Quinnipiac claims this is their lowest number for any governor in any state in more than 20 years. But Quinnipiac doesn`t poll in 50 states. We did find one that is lower. It`s from a state you might guess, Illinois. Governor Rod Blagojevich who was eventually removed from office and convicted 14 years in prison on charges of corruption.
While he was in office, before he was impeached, Blagojevich hit as low as 7 percent in the poll from the Glengariff Group. So, there you go. Some good news for Governor Christie there. At least you`re in double digits. If you can think of another modern governor who somehow fits this bill, let us know, we are happy to keep correcting and adding to that.
That`s all we have for tonight. We`ll be back tomorrow with more MTP DAILY.
FOR THE RECORD wit Greta starts right now.
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