IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell, Transcript 7/12/2016

Guests: Annette Gordon-Reed, Marq Claxton, Wendy Davis, Howard Dean, Steve McMahon, Paul Butler

Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O`DONNELL Date: July 12, 2016 Guest: Annette Gordon-Reed, Marq Claxton, Wendy Davis, Howard Dean, Steve McMahon, Paul Butler

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: That does it for tonight, we`ll see you again tomorrow, now it`s time for THE LAST WORD with Lawrence O`Donnell, good evening Lawrence.

LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Hey, Rachel, speaking of speaking at conventions, Elizabeth Warren now scheduled to speak Monday night at the Democratic convention, does that take her out of the race for VP?

MADDOW: Monday night is not VP night, traditionally speaking, right --



O`DONNELL: So, do we move our bets around here?


O`DONNELL: Really?

MADDOW: I don`t know, I mean, they didn`t have to tell people that in advance, it`s the only thing I`m thinking. It`s not that they list -- released a whole list of speakers, they just let that part leak.

So, maybe they`re trying to signal, trying to lower expectations around Warren, I don`t know.

O`DONNELL: OK, I`m not -- I`m not moving my Warren bet, because I bet early on Warren and nothing is going to get me to change it, just stubbornness now.

MADDOW: Pride going --

O`DONNELL: I`m hanging on that --

MADDOW: Before the fall, my friend.

O`DONNELL: OK, thanks, Rachel.

MADDOW: Thanks Lawrence.

O`DONNELL: President Obama is at his best as a public speaker when he`s reaching beyond policy to say something bigger about American life.

Particularly, the pain of American life in the face of national tragedies. That`s when you hear him blend speech with sermon.

He was at his best today in Dallas saying things that no president before him would have been able to say.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people of Dallas, people across the country are suffering.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

DAVID BROWN, CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: These five men gave their lives for all of us.

OBAMA: When the bullets started flying, the men and women of the Dallas police, they did not flinch and they did not react recklessly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am in awe of our Dallas police officers.


OBAMA: I`m here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem. Even those who dislike the phrase, black lives matter, surely we should be able to hear the pain of all the Sterling`s family.

BUSH: We do not want the unity of grief nor we want the unity of fear. We want the unity of hope, affection, and higher purpose.

OBAMA: We can decide to come together and make our country reflect the good inside us. May God bless this country that we love.



O`DONNELL: We have had exactly one president who could comment wisely from his own experience on what happened last week in Baton Rouge, Minnesota, and Dallas.

And that president did that today at a memorial service in Dallas for the five police officers who were murdered there on Thursday night by a mentally disturbed army veteran who was seeking revenge for black people who have been killed by police.

Before President Obama spoke today, we got a short glimpse of what previous presidents could offer in these situations from former President George W. Bush.


BUSH: Most of us imagine at the moment called for that we would risk our lives to protect a spouse, or a child.

Those who are in uniform assumed that risk for the safety of strangers. They and their families share the unspoken knowledge that each new day can bring new dangers.


O`DONNELL: President Bush`s seven-minute speech was a good speech that said nothing that anyone could disagree with.

It was filled with properly placed sympathy for the police officers and their families. It contained multiple references to God, and he spoke directly and movingly to the wives and children of the five officers who were killed.


BUSH: Your loved one`s time with you was too short. They did not get a chance to properly say good-bye, but they went where duty called.

They defended us, even to the end. They finished well. We will not forget what they did for us.


O`DONNELL: President Bush in these short time that he had to speak did not mention the reason those police officers were working that night.

He did not mention the protesters who those police officers were protecting. He did not mention the killings by police of Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge and Philando Castile in Minnesota that inspired those protesters to take to the streets that night.

He didn`t use the phrase "black lives matter". It is possible if President Bush was still in office and had more time to speak today, that he would have mentioned some of those things.

But it is also possible that he wouldn`t have because prior to the Obama presidency, all presidential speeches in moments of national mourning took no chances.

No president ever wanted to raise the possibility of any kind of disagreement over anything he said at such an event.

No president was willing to take that risk, and every previous president spoke from the perspective of a white man in America.

Most of those presidents were elected before women had the right to vote. And it is hard to find speeches from those presidents that even hinted out of concern for the experience of women in America, or black people.

The best our first 43 presidents could do was empathize, empathize with black people. And most of them didn`t bother to do that.

When President Obama leaves office, we will not see a presidential speech like we saw today for a very long time.

It began with a spontaneous joke. President Obama was introduced by Dallas Police Chief David Brown who quoted Stevie Wonder lyrics in his comments.


OBAMA: Chief Brown, I`m so glad I met Michelle first because she loves Stevie Wonder.




O`DONNELL: The President began by talking about each of the officers killed. Lorne Aherns, Michael Krol, Michael Smith, Patrick Zamarripa and Brent Thompson.

He included touching details about each one of them. And he did not shy away from the reason they were working Thursday night.


OBAMA: Like police officers across the country, these men and their families shared a commitment to something larger than themselves.

They weren`t looking for their names to be up in lights. They`d tell you the pay was decent, but wouldn`t make you rich.

They could have told you about the stress and long shifts. And they`d probably agree with Chief Brown when he said the cops don`t expect to hear the words, thank you very often, especially from those who need them the most.

No, the reward comes in knowing that our entire way of life in America depends on the rule of law. That the maintenance of that law is a hard and daily labor.

That in this country, we don`t have soldiers in the streets or militias setting the rules, instead, we have public servants, police officers, like the men who were taken away from us.

And that`s what these five were doing last Thursday. When they were assigned to protect and keep orderly a peaceful protest in response to the killing of Alton Sterling of Baton Rouge and Philando Castile in Minnesota, they were upholding the constitutional rights of this country.


O`DONNELL: The President offered optimism, not from the presidential perspective of a white man who has never faced adversity, but from his own experience of progress in his own lifetime.


OBAMA: I know that Americans are struggling right now with what we`ve witnessed over the past week. First, the shootings in Minnesota and Baton Rouge, the protests, and the targeting of police by the shooter here.

An act not just of demented violence but of racial hatred, all of it has left us wounded and angry and hurt. But, Dallas I`m here to say, we must reject such despair.

I`m here to insist that we are not as divided as we seem. And I know that because I know America. I know how far we`ve come against impossible odds.


I know we`ll make it because of what I`ve experienced in my own life. What I`ve seen of this country and its people, their goodness and decency as president of the United States.

Everyone was helping each other, one witness said. It wasn`t about black or white. Everyone was picking each other up and moving them away.

See, that`s the America I know. The police helped Shetamia Taylor as she was shot trying to shield her four sons.

She said she wanted her boys to join her to protest the incidents of black men being killed. She also said to the Dallas PD, thank you for being heroes.

And today her 12-year-old son wants to be a cop when he grows up, that`s the America I know.



O`DONNELL: Joining us now in Annette Gordon-Reed, professor of law and history at Harvard Law School, also with us Marq Claxton; director of the Black Law Enforcement Alliance and a retired NYPD detective.

Professor, the capacity that this president has to talk about these issues to weave them together, to not lose sight of why those officers were working that night.

These are things we haven`t seen in any kind of presidential speeches of this sort.

ANNETTE GORDON-REED, PROFESSOR OF LAW AND HISTORY, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Well, as you said, he has a unique capacity to do it because of who he is, the first African-American president who has had a -- you know, a foot in the world of Sterling and other -- the people who were -- who were shot as a black man.

And also a person who is the head of the country and has to speak to law enforcement and is a person who understands how important that is.

So, he has to bridge that gap. And he is perfectly suited to do that. His great rhetorical skills, his great sensitivity, and what he has seen in his life as he said, has given him all the talent and the capacity to do this.

O`DONNELL: And Marq, he began as was so appropriate, with a very personal comments about each one of the police officers who were shot.

He never lost sight once the speech got underway of all of the various elements that were involved in this speech and the various audiences he was talking to.

Give us your reading on how well he did with the law enforcement audience that he was speaking to today.

MARQ CLAXTON, DIRECTOR, BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT ALLIANCE & RETIRED DETECTIVE, NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT: This was a brilliant presentation by the president. It was an honorable, decent, respectable memorial.

He personalized each of those five police victims. He made reference to family and personal matters. Those things resonate not only with the law enforcement community, but with the nation.

And to add on top of that, a speech that is -- that was historic, yes, and necessary and timely that was wide ranging, that dealt with so many issues and make a general appeal, not only to our humanity as human beings, not only to our humanity, but to our sensibilities.

He spoke of things that we all know, even if we don`t -- if we don`t admit them publicly, we all know these things.

And finally, it was a call to action. So, it really was a very moving, touching and historic presentation by the president.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what the President said about "black lives matter".


OBAMA: And even those who dislike the phrase, black lives matter, surely we should be able to hear the pain of Alton Sterling`s family.


We should -- when we hear a friend describe them by saying that whatever he cooked, he cooked enough for everybody, that should sound familiar to us, that maybe he wasn`t so different than us.

So that we can -- yes, insist that his life matters. Just as we should hear the students and co-workers describe their affection for Philando Castile as a gentle soul -- Mr. Rogers with dreadlocks, they called him.

And know that his life mattered to a whole lot of people of all races of all ages, and that we had to do what we can without putting officers lives at risk, but to do better to prevent another life like his from being lost.


O`DONNELL: Professor, you can imagine with any other White House, the notion of mentioning black lives matter in this speech to this audience and a memorial for police officers.

Everybody in the speechwriting room would have been voting against it. But Barack Obama is the speechwriter-in-chief. This --


O`DONNELL: Is -- he definitely -- he has help, but people do drafts. But he is the one who makes these decisions.

GORDON-REED: It`s clearly very personal to him. Because he understands that this is an on-going problem.

I mean, the murder of the police officers, the horrific thing, but you can`t lose sight of the problem that exists that brought them all together, as you said.

This is a matter of black citizenship. It`s a matter of the constitution and something that`s not just in the city of Dallas, it`s all over the country.

It`s a state versus citizen question and it`s something that the President of the United States, the executive, has to deal with.

He can`t shake that. But you`re right, he`s in a position -- he`s probably in a better position, more inclined to try to do it than presidents in the past.

But it`s something that he realizes that he just has to do, we can`t let this horrific event take our eye off the ball and understand that this is a huge problem.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what could be on the horizon for these kinds of events in the future, the Republican presidential nominee on Bill O`Reilly`s show talking about this tonight.


TRUMP: It`s a very very sad situation, and hopefully it could be healed. We have a divider as a president, he`s the great divider.

I`ve said it for a long time, and it`s probably not been much worse at any time.


O`DONNELL: Marq Claxton, so, there you have an older white man, grew up rich in New York City of inherited wealth, who says, it has not been worse in America than it is now.

There are a few things that he apparently doesn`t remember.

CLAXTON: There`s a lot that he doesn`t remember, and there are many things that he`s never learned. But it`s quite clear that even in what Mr. Trump said there, there`s a void -- there`s -- he`s uncomfortable with talking about the issue.

What is the "it"? What is the "it" that he referred to? What made President Obama`s presentation today so courageous?

It`s because whether or not you agreed with any position, whether or not you agreed that he should mention, you know, Philando Castile and Alton Sterling or black lives matter.

Whether or not you agreed with that, you respect the courage and the obvious commitment that the President made today by forcing us to hear, to listen and to face some harsh realities that we often deny.

O`DONNELL: Annette Gordon-Reed and Marq Claxton, thank you both for joining us tonight, really appreciate it.

GORDON-REED: Good to be here.

O`DONNELL: Thank you, Lawrence.

GORDON-REED: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, why Philando Castile was pulled over. First, police said a broken taillight, now police tapes tell a different story, we will play that audio for you.

And Bernie Sanders finally joins forces with Hillary Clinton, he gives her the big endorsement today and Donald Trump had a lot to say about that -- well, he actually had a lot to tweet about that.



JEB BUSH, FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: If you believe like I do that the presidency is sacred ground, and you want a president that upholds the constitution, and I don`t believe either one of the candidates fulfills that primary kind of objective, then I can`t vote for either one of them.

I can`t vote for Hillary Clinton and I can`t vote for Donald Trump and it breaks my heart.


O`DONNELL: Avid Msnbc watcher Donald Trump reacted to that tonight.


TRUMP: Well, I watched and I actually felt badly for him. He`s talking about upholding the constitution, but he doesn`t uphold his pledge.

He signed an irrevocable pledge. It was a pledge, not you know, subject to whims and whatever he might think or his loss.

He signed a pledge. If you read that pledge, you`ll see it is a strong statement that he will support the candidate, the nominee.

And he has violated that, which means that he has signed something and he has totally violated it. Now, I don`t need his support.

I mean, I`m fine with that, his support, obviously. If I would have lost, I will tell you, I would have honored that pledge.


O`DONNELL: Up next, the Bernie-Hillary hug -- not so much a hug. It was like an arm around each other, sort of thing for a bit.

Finally, less than two weeks to go before the Democratic Convention and Bernie Sanders joins forces with Hillary Clinton, that`s next.



SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: Secretary Clinton has won the Democratic nominating process and I congratulate her for that.


She will be the Democratic nominee for president and I intend to do everything I can to make certain she will be the next president of the United States.



O`DONNELL: And so today Senator Bernie Sanders gave up the Secret Service protection according to a major presidential candidate.

Today, in New Hampshire, the scene of Bernie Sanders first big win over Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders did what runner`s up for the nomination always do in these kinds of situations, emphasize the policies he and the nominee agree on and remind his voters of the only alternative left to Hillary Clinton.


SANDERS: While Hillary Clinton supports making our tax code fairer and more progressive, Donald Trump wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the very wealthiest people in this country.

CLINTON: Senator Sanders and I will spare no effort to make sure the people of America know that once again Trump and his cronies are trying to pull the wool over our eyes and come back with the same failed policies that hurt us before.

We`re not going to let them get away with it, again.



O`DONNELL: Donald Trump`s first reaction was, as always, on Twitter, he tweeted, "Bernie Sanders endorsing crooked Hillary Clinton is like Occupy Wall Street endorsing Goldman Sachs.

Bernie Sanders has abandoned his supporters by endorsing pro-war, pro-TPP, pro-Wall Street, crooked Hillary Clinton.

To all the Bernie Sanders -- Bernie voters who want to stop bad trade deals and global special interests, we welcome you with open arms, people first."

Joining us now, two Hillary Clinton supporters, Howard Dean; former governor of Vermont and former chairman of the Democratic Party and an Msnbc political analyst.

And Wendy Davis; a former member of the Texas State Senate. Senator Davis, it was a long time coming, but it -- was there anything you were hoping for from Bernie Sanders today that you didn`t hear?

WENDY DAVIS, FORMER MEMBER, TEXAS STATE SENATE: Not at all, Lawrence. I thought he did a remarkable job of pointing out the reasons why unifying behind Hillary Clinton is so important.

And I think he did it in a very robust way and made it clear to his supporters and to everyone in this country that he`s going to throw his full weight and force behind Hillary Clinton and do everything that he can to bring his supporters along with him.

O`DONNELL: Howard Dean, a personal moment here about your friend Bernie Sanders and fellow Vermonter and -- this is something you`ve been through.

Today, it was the -- it`s happened before today. It was coming to today, the plane came in for a landing as it were.

But really, his life and a life of presidential candidate is like being run by jet engines for months and months and months and sometimes longer than that.

And then suddenly, very suddenly, it stops. Everything stops today for Bernie Sanders. He gives up the Secret Service protection.

There`s nothing left to the candidacy of Bernie Sanders, how does he feel tonight? How does he go through the next week or so, the next couple of weeks?

What is the -- what is the emotional space he is in now?

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR: Well, my guess is he goes back to Vermont for a few weeks and takes it easy and do what I did.

Which is clean out my garage and all the kinds of stuff I hadn`t done for a year and a half when I was on the trail. This is not the end of the campaign trail for Bernie Sanders, nor was it for me in 2004.

I went out and campaigned like crazy for John Kerry. Bernie, I think he`s going to go out all over the place. He got a lot out of this. He got a lot in that platform that he wanted.

I think he`s done the country a great service and I think he`s done the Democratic Party a great service. So, I think you`re going to see a lot more of Bernie Sanders between now and November.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to what Donald Trump had to say tonight, especially to Bernie Sanders` supporters.


TRUMP: Today, I see Bernie Sanders gave her this very -- you know, sort of strange endorsement. I want to tell you a lot of Bernie Sanders people are so upset about it, they`re going to be voting for Trump. I really believe that.


O`DONNELL: Let`s take a look at some of the polls on this. Recent Pew poll says 85 percent of Sanders supporters will vote for Secretary Clinton, 9 percent say they will support Trump.

That`s better than at this point in 2008 where 69 percent of Clinton supporters said they would support President Obama and only -- and 16 percent said they would vote for John McCain.

And then in the end, 16 percent really did vote for John McCain. The exit polls show that 16 percent of Hillary Clinton`s primary supporters voted for John McCain.

And Wendy Davis, right now Donald Trump shows only 9 percent of Sanders` supporters, so, he`s already underperforming John McCain on attracting Democratic voters.

DAVIS: No question about it. And I think he`s only going to go down from here, Lawrence. I think what happened today with Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton was really symbolic of where we find ourselves as a country.

A group of people who are coming together and understanding the importance of unity and facing someone who is very divisive at a time when we clearly need healing.

I think we`re going to see going into these next few months an even greater force of Democrats and independents, and hopefully some moderate Republicans coming together around the idea that we need to be a country that is unified and in support of each other.

And we`ll even pull farther away from those numbers that you see saying they`ll support Donald Trump right now.

O`DONNELL: Let`s listen to something Bernie Sanders said on the stage which you don`t usually hear in these kinds of endorsement speeches.

He was talking about how well he did and what he did in the delegate-count, let`s listen to this.


SANDERS: Our campaign won the primaries and caucuses in 22 states and when the roll call at the Democratic National Convention is announced, it will show that we won almost 1,900 delegates --


Far more than almost anyone thought we could win.


O`DONNELL: Howard Dean, that`s the one thing that people tend to leave out when they`re doing this endorsement of the nominee.

DEAN: Yeah. It`s not entirely clear why he wants to do that, except that I do think that a lot -- I mean, normally you`ll do what Hillary did, which is let it go and let it be, again, unanimous and so forth. But, I`ve been to conventions before where they`ve gone all the way to the delegate count and had to vote, and then some of them usually move to make it unanimous.

But, you know, Bernie`s people are deeply committed. And my attitude is, look, if this is what it takes to make them feel like they have really done their best for the country, then they should do it. I don`t have a big problem with that. All of this stuff has been negotiated out between Bernie and Hillary. I guarantee you that was an enthusiastic endorsement. And that would not have happen if this step would have not all been negotiated out. So I`m not at all worried about what`s going to go on inside the convention hall at all.

O`DONNELL: Yeah. I took that, actually, to be a message of respect from the candidate to his supporters to show them, "Yes, this is what you did."

DEAN: I think that`s right.

O`DONNELL: "This is what you achieved." He also made promises about going all the way to the convention. And he had to, I think, today keep some of the air of that alive and credit his supporters with what they did. But we`re out of the time for this segment. Howard Dean, Wendy Davis, thank you both for joining us tonight.

DEAN: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Appreciate it.

WENDY DAVIS, (D) TEXAS: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Up next in the war room, reading the clues is Elizabeth Warren now off the Clinton V.P list and who is Donald Trump going to team up with? Bill O`Reilly, as usual, thinks he knows.


O`DONNELL: And on tonight`s campaign war room, Senior Trump sources told NBC News today that Donald Trump plans to roll out his vice presidential selection on Friday at a joint campaign appearance. According to an interview with the "New York Times," Donald Trump now says his short list of V.P. choices is, "Five candidates plus two, two that are unknown to anybody." OK, Donald, that`s called a long list. Short lists are shorter than that, like, two, three.

Tonight, Donald Trump was joined at a campaign rally by one of the candidates on his list, Indiana Governor Mike Pence.


GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: Donald Trump knows that the boundless potential of the American people awaits and we can make America great again. We must select the strong leader for one more reason, because Hillary Clinton must never become president of the United States of America.

To paraphrase the director of the FBI, I think it would be extremely careless to elect Hillary Clinton as the next president of the United States.


O`DONNELL: In an interview with Bill O`Reilly, tonight, Donald Trump did not argue when Bill O`Reilly said that he Bill O`Reilly could tell that Donald Trump had already decided on either Mike Pence or Newt Gingrich.


BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Are people going to be surprised or is it one of the people that have been bantered around and predicted?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well, Bill, I`m not doing this for surprises. I`m not doing this for games. I`m doing this because I want to fix somebody .


O`REILLY: OK, so it`s either Pence -- help me get elected -- but also that .


O`DONNELL: Well, 118 days left for the presidential campaign war room, joining us tonight, in the "Last Word" war room is Steve McMahon, a veteran of Governor Howard Dean`s 2004 presidential campaign forum.

Steve, first of the Republican V.P. choice, what do you see there?

STEVE MCMAHON, CEO & CO-FOUNDER, PURPLE STRATEGIES: Well, I mean, it does seem to be narrowing to a group that includes Mike Pence, who you saw just now, and if that`s the best material he has, then I like Elizabeth Warren`s chances. And Chris Christie who would be sort of doubling down on bravado, if you will or braggadociousness (ph) and, you know, and .

O`DONNELL: Newt Gingrich is -- hope a lot for Newt Gingrich.

MCMAHON: Yeah, I`m sorry, I`m sorry. How could I forget Newt Gingrich? Yeah, it does seem to be sort of -- that`s the cohort that most people are talking about right now. "TIME" magazine, in fact, earlier today broke something that said that those were the three that were sort of remaining. And they seem to be the three most likely and most plausible.

I think Chris Christie, probably, you know, he brings a lot in terms of like, you know, his campaign skills and his willingness to sort of say anything and to kind of act like Trump, but Trump has said himself that he`s very interested in somebody with Washington experienced and somebody who could help him navigate the government if God forbid he becomes president. And so I think that will give Mike Pence or Newt Gingrich a real edge.

O`DONNELL: I know -- I don`t think Christie has a chance. Bridgegate is not over. He`s going to have to testify in two trials involving Bridgegate. A lot of pun dents seem to think it`s over, it`s not. And also, there`s that wonderful video of Donald Trump, of course, saying that Chris Christie knew all about Bridgegate beforehand and that Christie has been lying about it.

I`ve got to bet on Pence as of tonight with the combination of Washington experienced that Trump has mentioned and a conservative background and a more conservative -- behaviorally conservative personal history, shall we say than Newt Gingrich.

MCMAHON: Yeah. Well, let me just say about Chris Christie, since Bridgegate and since Donald Trump said that he`s gotten very, very good at holding Donald Trump`s coat and calling him Mr. Trump. And I think those two things alone might really argue for him inside Donald Trump`s mind.

I do agree with you, though, about Mike Pence. If you look at his resume, he`s somebody who was in Washington. He was the head of the Republican policy group. He`s thought by conservatives to be both thoughtful and principled and conservative. He`s not very popular in Indiana. They`ll be a lot of Republicans there who`d be happy to see him sort of release his place on the ticket to former Governor Mitch Daniels who I guess would like to run for that job, again. So, there are some good arguments for Mike Pence.

It does seem, though, that Donald Trump has a pretty close connection with Newt Gingrich. Newt Gingrich, you know, is a very thoughtful guy. I don`t agree with him on much, but he`s a pretty good campaigner. He`s a pretty good debater. He`s a pretty quick with the one liner.

And Mike Pence to me, you know, if you think about a vice president as somebody who wants to be out there, making a case, making it persuasively being the attack dog, you know, Mike Pence just watching that video tonight didn`t seem to me to kind of convey that. But, maybe he`s got it in him, I just didn`t see it.

O`DONNELL: So what signal do we take about Elizabeth Warren being listed as a scheduled convention speaker, Monday night?

MCMAHON: Well, I think it could be head fake. I mean, remember in 1992, Bill Clinton decided, you know, he was a young relatively inexperienced governor from Arkansas, and who would then double down on youth and experience by selecting someone like Al Gore, which is what Bill Clinton did, it worked brilliantly for him.

I`m sort of with you, Lawrence. I think, you know, Elizabeth Warren brings an awful lot to this ticket if she were selected. The fact that she`s been announced as a speaker on Monday night, I think it could be a head fake of its own. She`s very good. She gets Donald Trump`s -- gets under his skin. And she would be a fabulous campaigner. I hope Hillary Clinton does it.

O`DONNELL: Look, it could be as simple as Hillary Clinton has not yet decided, so in the meantime, Elizabeth Warren is scheduled for Monday night.

MCMAHON: That`s right.

O`DONNELL: But, she could end up on a different night with the different role. Steve McMahon, thank you very much for joining us on tonight`s war room. I really appreciate it.

MCMAHON: Thank you.

O`DONNELL: Coming up, the audiotape that is raising new questions about why Philando Castile was pulled over before being fatally shot by police. And did Ruth Bader Ginsburg cross the line in commenting on candidate Donald Trump? The answer is coming up. But here is a hint, there is no line.


O`DONNELL: Ruth Bader Ginsburg versus Donald Trump, that`s coming up, but first, here is how it looked today on the campaign trail.


SANDERS: Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bernie Sanders said, "Oh, you know what, I`m with her."


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is exactly what the Hillary Clinton campaign has been hoping for, for many months.

SANDERS: We have begun a political revolution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He basically took his stump speech and instead of rewriting it, he wove Hillary Clinton into it.

SANDERS: And that revolution continues.

CLINTON: We are stronger together.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we vote for her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I`m going to wait throughout to the convention to make that decision?

SANDERS: While Donald Trump is busy insulting Mexicans and Muslims.

TRUMP: Who is going to pay for the wall? Now, will you see a wall is?

Walls don`t have bathrooms and bathrooms are always tough.

CLINTON: We are joining forces to defeat Donald Trump.

TRUMP: We have crooked Hillary Clinton as crooked as you get.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pence, stumping with Trump in Indiana tonight in the final scheduled running mate try out.

PENCE: We`re ready for Donald Trump to be our next president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump continues to stir up speculation about his vice presidential pick.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No decision as of yet has been officially made.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How will you deal with disagreements you might have with Donald Trump?

PENCE: I haven`t agreed with every one of my Republican colleagues or Democrat colleagues on every issue. I believe he represents the kind of strong leadership at home and abroad that will to borrow a phrase, make America great again.

TRUMP: Where are my protesters? I want some protests.



O`DONNELL: NBC`s affiliate in Minneapolis K-A-R-E has obtained police audio recordings that indicate why police pulled over Philando Castile. Last week police indicated that he had been pulled over because of a broken taillight. These police radio calls, not yet independently authenticated by NBC News tell a very different story. NBC News Blake McCoy has the latest.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God, please don`t tell me he`s dead.

BLAKE MCCOY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: In this video streamed live to Facebook after Philando Castile was killed by police. His girlfriend said they were pulled over for a broken taillight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You shot four bullets into him, sir.

MCCOY: But in new audio obtained by our affiliate KARE-T.V., but not authenticated by NBC News, officers suggested a different reason.

OFFICER JERONIMO YANEZ, ST. ANTHONY POLICE DEPARTMENT: I`m going to check I.D. I have reason to pull it over. The two occupants just look like people that were involved in a robbery. The driver looks more like one of our suspects, just because of wide set nose.

GLENDA HATCHETT, CASTILE FAMILY ATTORNEY: It is not just this family`s loss.

MCCOY: The Castile family attorney is T.V. Judge Glenda Hatchett.

What does that tell you?

HATCHETT: That tells me that I`ll see him in court. You pull over somebody because of a wide set nose. I have a wide set nose. I mean, come on. And how does it change from a busted taillight at one point to a wide set nose?

MCCOY: These pictures from a convenient store robbery two miles away from the shooting scene show the suspect`s police were looking for. This is Castile.

The attorney representing Officer Jeronimo Yanez confirmed the details in the audio recording, but says his client shot Castile because he had a gun, not because of his race.

Castile`s girlfriend said they informed the officer of the gun and a licensed to carry, when the officer opened fire, her 4-year-old was in the backseat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, "OK, I`m right here with you."

MCCOY: Castile`s mother, Valerie, now plans to file a civil lawsuit.

VALERIE CASTILE, PHILANDO CASTILE`S MOTHER: My son, abide by the law and he was killed by the law.

MCCOY: Today, President Obama called to offer his condolences.


O`DONNELL: NBC`s Blake McCoy, thanks.

Still ahead, Ruth Bader Ginsburg criticizes Donald Trump and then she gets criticized for being too political. Too political? Tell that to the Supreme Court justices who actually ran for president while still serving on the Supreme Court.


O`DONNELL: Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is being criticized for criticizing Donald Trump. In Monday`s "New York Times" she said, "I can`t imagine what the country would be with Donald Trump as our president."

Today she told CNN, "He is a faker. He has no consistency about him. He says whatever comes into his head at the moment. He really has an ego."

Here is some of the criticism Ruth Bader Ginsburg faced today.


SEN. MITCH MCCONNEL, (R-KY) MAJORITY LEADER: It seems to me that it`s totally inappropriate for a member of the Supreme Court to be weighing in on an American election. It raises the level of skepticism that the American people have from time to time about just how objective the Supreme Court is.

REP. LAMAR SMITH, (R) TEXAS: It will be difficult for the American people to believe Justice Ginsburg can be impartial. Her verbal attack on Donald Trump only contributes to the public`s feeling that the justice system maybe rigged.


O`DONNELL: Justice Ginsburg did not cross the line in commenting on politics because there is no line. There is nothing that prevents a Supreme Court Justice from commenting on politics or politicians. There`s nothing that prevents Ruth Bader Ginsburg from running for president herself while still a Supreme Court Justice.

In 1866, Justice John McLean ran for the Republican presidential nomination and lost. In 1868 and 1872, Chief Justice Salmon Chase ran for the Democratic presidential nomination and lost both times. In 1880 and 1884, Justice Stephen Field ran for the Democratic presidential nomination and lost both times.

Joining us now, Paul Butler, Law Professor at Georgetown University and a former federal prosecutor. Professor, Mitch McConnell saying it`s totally inappropriate for the Supreme Court to be weighing in on an American election, he seems to forget the reason John Jay, our first Chief Justice left.

He -- while Chief Justice John Jay ran for governor of New York and lost and then he ran for governor of New York, again, and won and that`s why he left being our first Chief Justice. A lot seems to have been forgotten today.

PAUL BUTLER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yeah, it sounds like the senator could use our history lesson. Look, no one expects that Supreme Court Justices should weigh in on every election all the time and in fact, the lower court, lower federal court judges do that. They get in trouble. That`s a violation of the Canon of Ethics, but that explicitly does not apply to Supreme Court Justices. There`s a reason they`re called the Supremes. And in fact they express political points of view all the time.

Justice Scalia famously went duck hunting with Vice President Cheney including when Cheney had a matter before the court during the State of Union Address that couple of years ago. Justice Alito just -- could not disguise his disdain for President Obama, shaking his head at him at some point.

So the issue isn`t whether Justices have points of view including about political candidates, it`s whether -- instead they can be fair, whether they can put those points of view aside and consider a case fairly and there`s no reason to think that the notorious Justice Ginsburg couldn`t do that.

O`DONNELL: And what is true is that in the modern custom that we`ve been seeing during our lifetimes, it is unusual for Justices to make these kinds of comments, but it is just a tradition. There`s nothing written down that prevents them from doing it.

I want to raise something that Jeffrey Toobin, who does know a lot about the modern court and its traditions, what he said today that historically this isn`t done, he means, of course, in modern history. And then he said if something like Bush v. Gore were to end up in front of the Supreme Court as a result of this presidential election, Jeffrey Toobin said, "I don`t see how she can`t recuse herself." He would think she would have to recuse herself as a result of what she said today. What`s your reaction to that?

BUTLER: You know, that`s not how it usually works. If one of the justices has a real conflict of interest, for example, she owns stock in a company that has a matter before the court, that`s when they recuse themselves or - - as the example of Justice Kagan, she actually worked on the affirmative action case when she was at the Justice Department. So that was a good reason to recuse herself.

The justices decide on their own, there`s no formal rules. So I don`t see why she would have to recuse herself in this -- in any matter that came before the court. Again, all she`s doing to being more transparent about her views. I think it`s fair to assume that all the justices have points of view of Donald Trump. She` just saying what she thinks.

O`DONNELL: Paul Butler gets the night`s LAST WORD.

Chris Hayes is up next.