Summary
A federal judge on Friday unsealed the search warrant and property receipt from the FBI search of former President Donald Trump`s Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, Florida. The search warrant newly unsealed reveals that the FBI is investigating Donald Trump for a potential violation of the Espionage Act and that agents removed classified documents from the former president`s Florida estate earlier this week. We`re learning why the FBI executed that search of Donald Trump`s Florida residents had to do with potential crimes associated with violations to the Espionage Act. The latest attempt by Trump allies to excuse his mishandling of American secrets.
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Thanks for spending time with us on this extended edition of "THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER". You can always find me online at AriMelber.com. That`s AriMelber.com, the best way to connect with me or @AriMelber on social media. ALL IN starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALICIA MENENDEZ, MSNBC HOST (voiceover): Tonight on ALL IN.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): There are laws against the improper handling of this material.
MENENDEZ: The Mar-a-Lago warrant unsealed, and the twice impeached ex- president under investigation for possibly violating the Espionage Act.
CHRISTINA BOBB, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: I have not specifically spoken to the President about what nuclear materials may or may not have been in there. I do not believe there were any in there.
MENENDEZ: Tonight, new details on the 11 sets of classified records taken from Donald Trump`s home.
Plus, a new line of defense from Trump`s defenders.
JESSE WATTERS, HOST, FOX NEWS: Obama has got boxes of stuff in Chicago.
MENENDEZ: And New movement on the other charges potentially facing the ex- president.
RER. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Obstruction of justice is a crime. And it`s a crime we take seriously.
MENENDEZ: Tonight, my interview with Congressman Jamie Raskin on the investigation of Donald Trump and the historic legislation Democrats just passed in the House when ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MENENDEZ (on camera): Good evening from New York. I`m Alicia Menendez in for Chris Hayes. The ex-President of the United States` Florida home was searched earlier this week in relation to possible violations of the Espionage Act. That is just one of the many revelations gleaning from the search warrant for Trump`s Florida property, Mar-a-Lago.
In total, FBI agents confiscated about 20 boxes of documents from the golf club, including documents containing "information regarding the president of France," and an "executive grant of clemency for longtime Trump ally political dirty trickster Roger Stone." This time, we do not know if that document is the commutation for Stone that Trump signed back in late 2020 or if it was potentially an unissued document pertaining to charges that never materialized during Trump`s presidency, possibly relating to the attempted coup which Stone was involved in plotting.
Most important is the revelation that the list references 11 boxes of classified documents, including one set labeled TS/SCI. You see, security level clearance has a number of stages. It can read from classified, to secret, to the highest level, top secret or TS. So, take a look. You can see on this since-declassified document from the John F. Kennedy administration that it is labeled right there at the top of the page.
Additionally, some top-secret documents can also be classified as SCI or Sensitive Compartmented Information. These documents are so secret they can only be stored in special facilities viewed with permission. They are not supposed to be stored in the basement of a Golf Resort. But that appears to be what Donald Trump did.
Now, we do not know what the Top Secret SCI documents pertain to. But we do know, according to reporting in the Washington Post, that the FBI was seeking documents related to nuclear weapons. And the New York Times reports that the search focus on so-called Special Access Programs. As Democratic Congressman Ruben Gallego of Arizona, Chair of the House Subcommittee on Intelligence and Special Operations put it, those Special Access Programs usually relate to "sensitive technology or projects."
What we do know for certain according to the warrant is that the search was predicated on probable cause that the documents were evidence of obstruction of justice and a violation of the Espionage Act. So, now that we are learning just how serious this investigation is, some Republicans are left twisting in the wind after sticking their necks out for Trump earlier this week. Just take a listen to Republican House Whip Steve Scalise answer leaves so much to be desired.
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MIKE EMANUEL, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: Does it concern you, sir, that some may have been marked TS, Top Secret or SCI, Secret Compartmented Information?
REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): We know this that previous Presidents have had classified information, and again, that`s a conversation that goes on between the intelligence agencies and former presidents where they allow certain things to be held but in held in certain ways. And again, if they had asked the President Trump to keep some of that stuff behind lock and key, he`s already said he did that. So, there`s a lot of back and forth here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MENENDEZ: Donald Trump has responded predictably to this news by spouting ridiculous conspiracy theories, publicly lying on his off-brand Twitter platform that the FBI planted the classified documents without any evidence to back up that accusation.
[20:05:12]
In a new article, former FBI official Chuck Rosenberg explains exactly why those conspiracies are so dangerous. "These lies undermine the work of the FBI, the morale of the professionals at the FBI, and the competence of citizens in the remarkably important mission of the FBI. Remember, it was only 18 months ago that two FBI special agents in Miami are shot and killed in the line of duty."
In many ways, this is all a fitting reminder of Donald Trump`s time in the White House. We first campaign for president, you`ll remember, there was bipartisan concern that he could not be trusted with nuclear secrets, that he couldn`t be trusted to keep Americans safe. And now, nearly two years after he lost reelection, further indication that those concerns were warranted.
Luke Broadwater is a congressional correspondent for The New York Times. He has been closely covering the numerous investigations into Donald Trump, including this FBI investigation into potential violations of the Espionage Act. Luke, what else did we learn from this warrant?
LUKE BROADWATER, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, yes. Well, we learned, as you mentioned, 11 sets of classified documents, including four sets of top secret documents. Now, we don`t know exactly what those documents are. But -- so, it raises many questions. Now, we know from the Washington Post story, that they couldn`t be related to nuclear weapons, which is obviously a huge concern. And that was much of the talk today on Capitol Hill.
And I know Nancy Pelosi, Speaker Pelosi was very concerned today about what these documents were that Trump took with him. And in fact, these were documents that we know were so sensitive that they should not have left Washington D.C. at all, and in fact, they were only to be read in a SCIF, a very secure location. So, the fact that these were down in Mar-a-Lago is very concerning to the Democrats on Capitol Hill.
And you did hear Republicans on Capitol Hill today sort of shifting in the wind somewhat with their rhetoric was sort of -- not defending Donald Trump as vociferously as they had in the early days when we had first learned about this search at Mar-a-Lago.
MENENDEZ: And we`ll be talking about that a little bit later in the show, but I want to ask you this. We know this search warrant was predicated on probable cause that there was evidence of Espionage Act violations at Mar- a-Lago, but also obstruction of justice. Do we know what that could be related to?
BROADWATER: We don`t right now, but it`s -- it raises several possibilities for prosecution for Donald Trump were this to go down that route. One thing that`s important to note, the Republicans are saying, well, he declassified everything. But if the documents were used to violate the Espionage Act, or to violate -- or to obstruct justice in some other way, then it doesn`t matter that Donald Trump says he declassified them.
So, like, we don`t know -- frankly, we don`t know a lot of things right now and, you know, we`re hoping to find out more.
MENENDEZ: The Top Secret SCI documents that were retrieved in the search, they are getting most of the attention today, but there were 11 boxes of classified documents, various security levels. How might those play into this investigation?
BROADWATER: Well, we know that Merrick Garland is very serious about this investigation and that we have -- I think this one is much further along than some of the other ones we thought were perhaps advancing at a quicker level. You know, we`ve been tracking the fake electors investigation very closely and had sort of not been paying attention as much I had been to the -- to the classified documents until this issue arose.
And now, I think everybody`s focused right now is what is the next investigative step to happen? Does -- we got to wait to see -- to see where the next shoe drops.
MENENDEZ: Luke Broadwater, my friend, your deep sigh before every answer is a real indication of the type of week that this has been. Thank you so much for making the time to be with us.
Charlie Savage is a Washington Correspondent for The New York Times. His latest piece is titled Trump claims he declassified all the documents at Mar-a-Lago. Even if that`s true, it probably doesn`t matter. And Danya Perry is served as a New York State federal prosecutor, as well as New York State Deputy Attorney General. It is good to see you both.
Charlie, Donald Trump is trying to argue that he declassified the documents in his possession. But as you write, "The Espionage Act makes no reference to whether a document has been deemed classified. Instead, it makes it a crime to retain without authorization documents related to the national defense that could be used to harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary." So, what he`s arguing doesn`t even matter, Charlie.
[20:10:11]
CHARLIE SAVAGE, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: That`s right. All three of the criminal laws cited in the search warrant do not turn or depend on whether the information was classified. So, maybe Trump is lying. Maybe he`s telling the truth and he sort of waved his hands over these documents on January 20th at 11:59 a.m. right before Biden took the oath and deemed them unclassified, it doesn`t change whether these laws would apply.
The Espionage Act was written in World War I, about 30 years before presidents created the classification system and exist independently of whether something is considered classified or not under that system. And the standard you just read is the one a jury would have to decide whether or not the documents met. Whether or not Trump had magically invoked his powers until he ceased being president to declassify them wouldn`t change whether or not that standard had met -- had met.
And the other two statutes cited in the search warrant also don`t have actually anything to do with national security information. Concealing documents to obstruct an official investigation doesn`t say anything about whether or not those documents have to be classified or not. And the third one has to do with theft, destruction, concealing unlawful, taking a government documents or records in general.
Again, it does not have to be classified or unclassified. It doesn`t have to have anything to do with national security. And in fact, part of what they were looking for was any Presidential Record created from 2017 to 2021. That was, for some reason being hoarded at Mar-a-Lago, rather than being deposited with the National Archives as the law required.
MENENDEZ: Danya, lots of outstanding questions, one of the things we do know is that this search warrant was based on probable cause that Mar-a- Lago contains evidence of obstruction of justice, and violation of the Espionage Act. What can we extrapolate from that?
DANYA PERRY, FORMER NEW YORK STATE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Just that, that a an agent had to swear under oath that there was probable cause to believe that violations of the three statutes had occurred, and that there was probable cause to believe that evidence fruits or instrumentalities of those crimes can be found on the premises, and that there was fresh evidence of all of that.
So, something, you know, we`ve heard a lot in the news about conversations that have been going on for some time with a former president, but they had to have had information that the evidence was still there, and pretty precisely where it was. And a judge had to independently find that there was probable cause to issue the warrants. So, it`s a, you know, pretty significant process with several steps. And as we know, it went all the way up to A.G. Garland for approval.
MENENDEZ: Charlie, you literally wrote the book on the expansion of federal authority in this country. The President does have close to absolute power for declassification. I did like the reference you made to him magically declassifying all of this. I mean, doesn`t he have to at least tell someone that he`s declassifying it? Doesn`t it have to be some record of the declassification?
SAVAGE: If things were being followed in the normal course of events, yes, there would have to be written records of this. Documents would have to have the clock top secret or whatever markings removed from them as there`d be a process. If these were nuclear documents that people have been talking about, there`s a process of consulting the Department of Energy and Department of Defense first.
Arguably, those restrictions might not apply to a president who has -- does wield sweeping constitutional authority over this. He created -- the President, as an institution, created this system by executive order. And one could argue, he`s not bound by the regulations that lower-ranking people in the executive branch have to follow.
But whether or not that happened, again, is irrelevant. These three laws do not depend on whether the documents were classified or declassified had ever been classified in the first instance. It doesn`t matter for the purpose of these three crimes that we now know the FBI is investigating.
MENENDEZ: Charlie, where do you think we go from here?
SAVAGE: Well, the FBI has, in this document we saw today, obviously has a lot of documents to go through. It took out what, 11 sets of documents, some classified, some not, some classified at different levels, boxes and boxes of stuff. It`s got to go through it. It`s got to index it. It`s got to understand what it has. And then they`ve got to make a decision whether to -- whether they have enough information to bring charges.
Clearly they have other information that went into this search warrant which is how they knew there was stuff there and where to look for it and how they were able to meet that probable cause standard to a judge. We don`t know what that other evidence is because they did not release the application for the search warrant, which would contain an affidavit listing, we are talking to these people, we have seen this surveillance footage or whatever.
And so, they have all of that now at their disposal, and they`ve got -- they`re going to be probably coming up on a tough decision, do they bring charges or not? A big search like this, which alerts the defendant of what`s going on, is usually pretty late in the process of an investigation.
[20:15:34]
MENENDEZ: Charlie Savage, thank you so much for being with us. Danya Perry, to you as well.
Still ahead, the ex-president under investigation in connection with the Espionage Act. We`re going to take a look back at all the other times he played fast and loose with the country`s top secrets next.
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[20:20:00]
MENENDEZ: We`re continuing to follow the major news today. The documents were seized from the Florida home of the former president of the United States is part of an investigation into potential crimes associated with the Espionage Act. This comes just days after the FBI executed a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago and removed classified documents that the ex- president took from the White House.
And here`s the thing. Time and time again, Donald Trump has proven that he cannot be trusted with sensitive information. We know from multiple instances when he disclosed classified information while he was in office. In his first few weeks as president, Trump was hosting the late Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at Mar-a-Lago when North Korea tested a ballistic missile. Trump proceeded to conduct his response to the launch from the resort`s terrace in full view, in earshot, guests having dinner.
One Mar-a-Lago member snapped these photos, posted them on Facebook. He wrote, "Holy moly, it was fascinating to watch the flurry of activity at dinner. The President is on the phone with Washington DC. Wow, the center of the action." Just a few months later, Trump met with top Russian officials in the Oval Office and revealed highly classified information from Israel about an Islamic state plot. In doing so, he put Israeli agents lives at risk.
And in 2019, there was this tweet. Trump posted a classified satellite photo showing the aftermath of an explosion at a launch site in Iran. He wrote that the U.S. was not involved adding, "I wish Iran best wishes and good luck in determining what happened." When officials criticized Trump for disclosing classified information, he defended himself claiming that he could do whatever he wanted with classified information.
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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just wish Iran well. They had a big problem. And we had a photo and I released it, which I have the absolute right to do. And we`ll see what happens. You`ll have to figure that one out yourself. But we`ll see what happens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MENENDEZ: We`ll see what happens. Now, we know from reporting at the time that there was a pretty robust infrastructure around the then-President, working to prevent him from doing anything that would endanger our national security. My next guest, a retired senior CIA operations officer was part of that effort.
But now, Donald Trump is no longer in office, and those protections are no longer in place. So, just how dangerous is this situation? Douglas London worked for the CIA for 34 years, retiring in 2019 as counterterrorism chief for South and Southwest Asia. During the Trump administration, he oversaw the intelligence briefings for that region that were presented to the President. He is also the author of The Recruiter: Spying and the Lost Art of American Intelligence. And he joins me now,
Doug, what do you make of the search warrant? What did you learn from it?
DOUGLAS LONDON, RETIRED SENIOR OPERATIONS OFFICER, CIA: Well, it`s not terribly surprising taking a look at what`s been released publicly. I think what got my attention was using the statute about retaining documents that could cause harm to U.S. defense or aid our foreign adversaries, because that speaks to me a bit more of intent, and also the fact that they collected binders of photos.
Now, photos collected from national tactical beings, which is just another nice way of saying satellites, usually have additional layers of compartmentation and security protection that really go above and beyond Top Secret and Sensitive Compartment Information. So, there`s really no telling what he has in his possession or what his intent really was.
MENENDEZ: I mean, Doug, you touched on this but I want to go a little bit deeper. Your reaction to the revelation from this war that the Espionage Act was one of the legal basis used for this search?
LONDON: Well, I`m a spy as opposed to legal expert, but I know that espionage is hard to prove, usually without trying to prove conspiracy to commit espionage. So, what`s clear from the public record at least are the documents that he retained which themselves are potentially very damaging to our national defense and could aid a foreign adversary. But did he have the intent to provide that information for some value from a foreign collaborator is unclear.
MENENDEZ: I`m looking at the receipt of property which anyone wants it can go through this property receipt from the search at Mar-a-Lago. It lists many documents at the FBI recovered labeling them variously as Classified, Confidential, Secret, Top Secret. I want you to walk us through what those different labels mean, and what we can glean from this list.
[20:25:00]
LONDON: Well, there`s three classifications in the United States government as you have on your screen, Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. But there are also other controls, additional controls, and that`s where the SCI comes in, Sensitive Compartmented Information. That`s information that often includes technical collection. It could be from signals intelligence, it could be from satellite intelligence. But whatever it is, it`s a special program. The military refers to these as Special Access Programs or SAPS.
The point is, what we`re protecting more than anything is the way we collect the information. The substance of the information, the secrets themselves will sometimes become apparent and actions and policy, but it`s the means of collection that we protect because once compromised, one, we`re putting people in jeopardy. And also, we`re losing our means to continue to secure that information.
MENENDEZ: Yes, when we talk about grave danger, what does -- what does that mean? What does that look like?
LONDON: It`s black and white for the people that are involved, the people that might be on the ground providing those secrets, but also the people securing that collection. That`s intelligence officers, that`s technical experts, that`s people who are supporting these operations who themselves do so at times at great physical risks, but without any doubt, agents who are behind closed doors and working in the shadows. Their identities can be revealed simply by the nature of the information exposed when foreign governments start looking at who has access to this information, who is in a position.
One of the features you`re you didn`t mention, and it was, of course, speculated in the press, that President Trump when meeting with Mr. Lavrov and Ambassador Kislyak in the Oval Office might have compromised a very sensitive CIA agent in the Kremlin when speaking about the firing of James Comey and Russian election meddling.
So, people live and die based on mistakes like. This was why it`s taken so seriously. And in fact, information like this, even the U.S. government is held in a SCIF, a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, which has all sorts of additional safety measures to prevent people from using acoustic measures or other means to try to steal those secrets from us. MENENDEZ: Trump`s National Security Adviser John Bolton told CBS News that the ex-president would often ask his intelligence briefers if he could keep documents and he says the briefers most often would say, well, sir, we`d prefer to take that back. But sometimes they forgot. Were you ever aware of that happening?
LONDON: Well, that`s certainly came up. So, presidents these days, get their presidential daily briefs on a tablet, an electronic tablet so that we get to take it back, and they`re all numbered and controlled. But there are briefings that have handouts, pictures, images, you spoke to the one image that the President shared publicly which he ought not to have.
But sometimes because the President was also somewhat difficult to brief, he was very visual, his attention span was somewhat limited. We used a lot of graphics be it images or videos to try to get him on target. And he`d want those and we would, at least the agency would manage to secure them back. But I can`t speak for other agencies.
MENENDEZ: If his attention was limited in the meetings with you, why then would he take these documents away just to have -- just to spend more time with them?
LONDON: It were -- the pictures often and sort of the headlines that would capture his attention we wrote to style to try to stimulate his interest and things that may not be in the norm for him. So, something might have gotten him particularly percolated. For us, it could have been a covert action activity which might have had video accompanying it or perhaps a visual image which he would get interested in and want to keep it for reasons he would not necessarily explained or we were in a position to ask but we generally were able to secure these things back from him.
MENENDEZ: I would say it is unbelievable, but nothing is unbelievable at this point. Douglas London, thank you for being with us.
LONDON: Thanks.
MENENDEZ: Up next, a big win for Joe Biden.
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PELOSI: The yeas are 220, the nays are 207. The resolution -- the motion is adopted.
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MENENDEZ: The House passes a historic climate bill with not one single Republican vote. Congressman Jamie Raskin is here on that and much more straight ahead.
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[20:33:47]
MENENDEZ: We all know we live in extraordinary times, but this was truly an incredible week. Today we`re learning why the FBI executed that search of Donald Trump`s Florida residents had to do with potential crimes associated with violations to the Espionage Act.
According to the search warrant, the documents seized by agents included eight sets of secret or top secret documents, they included one set of classified top secret Sensitive Compartmented Information.
This is the classification given to the most closely guarded secrets of our nation, which could cause exceptionally grave damage to our national security and potentially endanger Americans if it was disclosed to unauthorized people sitting in a box at Trump`s Florida club. This comes on a week that the Department of Justice seems to be ramping up its January 6th investigation.
On Tuesday, federal agent seized Pennsylvania Republican Congressman Scott Perry`s cell phone. It was Congressman Perry who introduced Donald Trump to Jeffrey Clark, the DOJ official who tried to orchestrate a mini coup inside of the DOJ to replace his boss, the acting attorney general.
Meanwhile, January 6 committee is speaking with Trump cabinet members, including Trump`s Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao.
[20:35:04]
And these interviews are all happening as House Democrats just passed their hugely consequential climate and health care package known as the Inflation Reduction Act. The measure was passed 220 to 207 without any Republican support. Now heads to President Joe Biden`s desk for his signature.
And there is one person I want to talk with you about all of this. Maryland Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin, a member of the January 6 committee, and he joins me next.
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[20:40:08]
MENENDEZ: Tonight, we are unpacking the stunning news that the FBI searched the Florida residents of the ex-president to investigate crimes associated with possible violations to the Espionage Act.
Agents who conducted the search recovered several sets of very sensitive highly classified government documents. This comes at the end of a busy week for both the January 6 committee investigating the insurrection and Congress which just passed a hugely consequential piece of legislation.
Congressman Jamie Raskin sits on the January 6 committee and served as the lead house manager for the second impeachment of Donald Trump and he joins me now.
Congressman, I want to get to this breaking news about the search warrant. Can I get your top-line reactions to the news that the documents seized from Trump`s Florida home related to possible violations of the Espionage Act?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Well, thank you for having me. I should say from the beginning that I know nothing more about that than you know, or any of us know just from reading the papers and watching the news.
You know, I think I thought from the beginning of the Trump administration that this was a guy who was far more loyal to his fellow kleptocrats and autocrats around the world, people like Putin and Orban and El-Sisi than he was to the people of the United States.
So, you know, some strange words have entered our political lexicon recently, like coup and insurrection. And now espionage is right there with them. And it`s pretty shocking, and it`s pretty horrific. But it`s hard to say it`s surprising at this point.
MENENDEZ: Indeed, the ex-president trying to claim he declassified these top secret documents before he left office, we`ve already had other guests who said that`s not even relevant to this conversation. What do you say?
RASKIN: Yes, I haven`t studied the legalities of that. But I do notice a dramatic shift in tone among the Republicans who were shouting about Civil War, and this being the worst invasion of civil liberties and all of that nonsense.
I mean, this went through an independent neutral magistrate who issued the warrant based upon probable cause. And these are very serious offenses.
No president or former president has come anywhere near Donald Trump in terms of, you know, allegedly committing these offenses. It`s an astonishing thing that we`re at this point.
I hope that the Republican Party will start listening to Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger. But right now, his stranglehold over the Republicans continues and you know, they`re acting like a spellbound cult membership.
MENENDEZ: I mean, here`s the thing, they`re not just defending him, they`re also lobbing attacks at the FBI at DOJ ahead of yesterday`s attack on the Cincinnati field office.
Have you heard any of your Republic Colleagues try to tone down their rhetoric? I mean, are they worried that they could be inspiring this kind of attack?
RASKIN: Well, the leadership seems to be holding their fire a little bit since this evidence has come out, but generally no, they`re still in the same place.
And you`re right, I mean, they call themselves the pro-police, pro-law enforcement party until their mob attacked hundreds and hundreds of our police officers and wounded and injured 150 of them with traumatic brain injury and broken jaws and necks and all of these gruesome wounds that they suffered, and they just let that go.
And now, the people who were fictionalizing that somehow the other side was talking about defunding the police. Now, they`re talking about defunding the FBI, they`re talking about defunding a law enforcement because all that matters to them is their Lord autocrat Donald Trump.
So, look, they`ve gone down a really extreme road, and we`re in another posture. We`re defending the institutions of democracy, and we`re making democracy work. And that`s why today was such an extraordinary day with the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act.
MENENDEZ: Extraordinary indeed, that was the other big news from today, tell us what this is going to mean for Americans when the president signs it into law.
RASKIN: Oh, I mean, it`s amazing. And needless to say, it was done on a totally party-line basis, because no Republicans would come over to support it.
But let`s start with this on climate change, we are reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 40 percent by the year 2030. So this is serious, sustained, dramatic investment in alternative renewable energies and financial incentives for us to break from the carbon barons and the oil barons and moving to the kind of energy system that will make life sustainable for human beings on earth.
[20:45:09]
So, that`s a miraculous political breakthrough, given our 50-50 tie in the Senate, and the fact that we just have six or seven vote margin over on the House side.
But we went way beyond that because what we did was we have limited all Medicare beneficiaries to having to pay no more than $2,000 a year for their prescription drug costs. And there are people who are spending thousands and thousands of dollars here, so we`re saving people thousands of dollars, specifically for all of my friends out there who have diabetes were limiting insulin costs to $35.00 a month, you cannot be forced to pay more than $35.00 a month.
And in order to make all this happen, we are overturning the special interest writer that Republican Billy Tauzin had built into the Medicare Part D legislation, when they said that the government could not negotiate with Big Pharma for lower prescription drug prices in the Medicare program, the way that they could do it in Medicaid or the V.A.
So, we got rid of that. Now there will be a real free market in negotiations, we`re going to see tens of billions of dollars of savings. And we`re going to again, cap everybody`s out-of-pocket prescription drug costs at $2,000 a year, which is just a magnificent breakthrough.
And all of it is going to be paid for by just making billionaire corporations pay a minimum tax, so they can`t get away with paying zero a year, which so many of them have been doing for so long.
MENENDEZ: There`s the benefit of the legislation itself. And I think there is the secondary effect of showing people that Washington can actually work and get things done and that government can be at an engine for good.
I do want to ask you again, big week, January 6 committee, the committee heard from several Trump administration cabinet members this week, what can you tell us about how forthcoming any of these officials are being?
RASKIN: On your first point, I just want to underscore what you said, the party of democracy, the Democratic Party is showing not just that we`re defending democracy, but we`re making democracy work for the people over the worst possible obstructionism that we`re seeing from the other side.
But we have hung together, we`ve stayed focused, and we have delivered this most extraordinary legislation. The most important environmental legislation, certainly of the century, maybe in American history, as well as breakthrough legislation on containing health care costs for American people.
But yes, we`ve had these, you know, former Trump administration cabinet officials come in to talk to them. I can`t tell you any specifics about individual meetings.
But I will say as the member who introduced legislation on the 25th Amendment during the Trump administration, I`m very interested to know what exactly happened in terms of the reported -- the publicly reported efforts by cabinet officials to talk about invoking the 25th Amendment to transfer power in those final weeks from Trump to Vice President Pence.
And they, of course, couldn`t get it together. And the president was obviously able to use the fact that a lot of them were acting secretaries and his political influence over them to keep anything from happening.
But it to me emphasize the importance of legislation that I`d introduced to create a body under the 25th Amendment. Because the 25th Amendment says that the vice president and a majority of the cabinet or the vice president and the majority of a body set up by Congress can determine that the president is unable to discharge the powers and duties of office.
And so, that`s something we really have to look at, because Congress never set that body up, going all the way back to 1967 when the 25th Amendment was passed. We really have to look at that because, you know, if one member of Congress falls to the side for some reason, that`s no big deal, we got 535 members.
But if the president himself or herself is unable to meet the duties of office, that`s a constitutional crisis.
MENENDEZ: Congressman Jamie Raskin, as always, thank you so much.
Up next, the latest attempt by Trump allies to excuse his mishandling of American secrets that is coming up after this quick break.
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[20:53:39]
MENENDEZ: When Republicans and the right-wing media first heard about the FBI executing a search warrant at Donald Trump`s Mar-a-Lago residence, they sprang to the ex-president`s defense saying, probably just took a few mementos and that the FBI went too far.
And last night, after the Washington Post reported that the documents may have contained classified information relating to nuclear weapons, the Trump defense machine pivoted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): I can tell you that there are a number of things that are classified that fall under the umbrella of nuclear weapons, but that are not necessarily things that are truly classified.
And many of them you can find on your own phone as we -- as we stand here, and if they fall within that category, they`re not an imminent national security threat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MENENDEZ: Now that the search warrant for the ex-president`s residence has been unsealed. And we know that the documents seized relate to possible violations of the Espionage Act is not yet clear what the right-wing defense will be.
Symone Sanders served as Deputy Assistant to President Joe Biden, chief spokesperson to Vice President Kamala Harris. And she is the host of "SYMONE" on Peacock and MSNBC. Carlos Curbelo is a former Republican congressman from Florida. And they both join me now.
It is good to see you both. Symone, I got to ask you as a former White House official, what do you make of this defense that just like anyone can find classified documents just using the internet on their phone?
[20:55:07]
SYMONE SANDERS, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: It`s not true. OK. It`s not true. And while it seems laughable, right? It is -- it is not funny. This is not true, people are lying about classified information. And I think it`s really important that we set the record straight.
So, just to be clear, you need a level -- you need a clearance to access classified information, to access -- there is another level of clearance to access top secret and SCI which we`ve been talking about on this network all day information, on top of the original clearance that you get. And no circumstance should classify information be at your home.
When I was at the White House, I couldn`t even leave it on my desk, depending on what it was it needed to be in a secure -- what`s called a SCIF, which is basically a very secure room where you can read classified information, you can`t bring phones in there. There are levels to this. This is very serious.
MENENDEZ: I mean, Carlos, Symone is right. This is not funny. We`re talking about endangering the safety of Americans. I think what is just astounding to all of us is watching the Republicans try to pivot on this in real time, right?
I mean, they came out the gate, they were cutting and pasting from the former president`s statement into their own Twitter accounts to say, we stand with him. His rationale is right. It seems as though they are starting to be a little bit more measured in what they are saying.
CARLOS CURBELO, FORMER CONGRESSMAN OF FLORIDA: Well, Alicia, Republicans have to decide if they are actually the party of law and order. And if they`re the party of law and order, they need to explain what that means.
Republicans said that the raid, the execution of the search warrant was a Third World act. Well, isn`t it a Third World act to walk out of the White House with a bunch of classified information with actual security information relevant to the safety of all Americans and the safety of the world and to keep that at your home? That seems like Third World conduct to me as well.
So, Republicans really need to level with the people and say, hey, either we`re for law enforcement or not, either we`re for law and order or we`re not.
And if we`re going to talk about Third World conduct, we got to look at our own and Donald Trump has engaged in plenty of Third World conduct.
MENENDEZ: I mean, Carlos, I don`t need to tell you though, instead of doing that, they`re talking about defunding the FBI. I mean, is this the moment where they suddenly pull back?
CURBELO: Well, that`s right. And that`s why Republicans, at some point are going to have to realize and hopefully decide that following Donald Trump means being hypocritical and dishonest about most of the things they believe in.
OK, if you if you believe in funding the police, and if you`re going to go on a crusade about funding and supporting the police, then you have to stand with the FBI, you have to stand with the Capitol police officers who were killed on the sixth of January. They can`t have it both ways.
MENENDEZ: Symone, listen, I just can`t get over sort of the split screen that we have seen this week of both the search of the former presidents home, what we are now learning from these search warrants the way you are watching Republicans come out and not just defend him, but attack the Department of Justice, to attack the FBI.
At the same time that you have Democrats holding together and passing major legislation. I think part of the challenge moving into the next few months is how you make sure that voters are getting that message.
SANDERS: Yes, I think there was a master class that was just taught on that and it was on your show and it was your interview with Jamie Raskin, you all talked about -- you said it yourself, there are two stories today. And you talked about both of them. You talked about President Trump, you got Jamie Raskin on the record there. And then you -- and then, Jamie Raskin himself brought up the Inflation Reduction Act. What happened? You ask questions about that. And you got to tell the American people.
It is -- it will be a dereliction of duty of every Democrat in this country, if they do not go out there and every time they are in front of a camera, every time they`re in an interview, if they do not raise the fact that Democrats got something done, while half of the parts of our country are on fire, literally on fire. France is literally burning, it is the largest investment in climate ever in the United States.
But also, every single Republican in the United States Congress voted against lowering prescription drugs for seniors, voted against a cap on insulin for seniors. How are they going to sell that to the American people?
Democrats have to be dogged in talking about this from all sides of the issue. And I think the media apparatus has responsibility here as well.
MENENDEZ: Carlos, I`ve got less than 30 seconds left, but I wonder who you think has enough juice within the party to say, hey, guys, this is the line?
CURBELO: Alicia, look, this primary season gives some Republicans hope that the party can eventually shift directions, but at the end of the day, the people in office today are the ones who are going to have to make this decision.
I think a lot of people are staying quiet. They don`t want to continue following Donald Trump, but a lot of the Republican leaders continue following him. So, everyone`s just kind of going along to get along and one day they`re going to crash.
[21:00:03]
MENENDEZ: Symone Sanders, Carlos Curbelo. Thank you both so much. That is ALL IN for this week. I will be back Saturday and Sunday 6:00 p.m. Eastern with "AMERICAN VOICES" right here on MSNBC.
MSNBC Prime starts right now with Ali Velshi. Hi, Ali.