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All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 09/16/15

Guests: Ahmed Mohamed, Aliyah Salem, Dr. Chanda Prescod- Weinstein,Jennifer Granholm, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Dick Durbin, Bill de Blasio

CHRIS HAYES, HOST: Good evening from New York I`m Chris Hayes, and just a couple of days ago very few people knew who Ahmed Mohamed was. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: But now the 14 year old from Texas is trending worldwide on Twitter, getting attention from astronauts, moguls and Presidents. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And Ahmed Mohamed will join me tonight for an all and exclusive. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Because on Sunday night as his home in Irvine, Texas, just outside Dallas, Mohamed was doing what he likes to do, tinkering around with electronics in the makeshift workshop he keeps in his bedroom. In about 20 minutes he told Dallas morning news Ahmed fashioned a homemade digital clock. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And on Monday, the next morning he brought it into school to show off to his engineering teacher. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) AHMED MOHAMED: I took it to school to show my teacher of the talent that I had. I showed it to my first period teacher, she`s an engineering teacher that teaches at McCarthur High School. HAYES: And you`re in that class? MOHAMED: I`m in that class and it`s only a set of few students that can be in that class, around six or seven students that could be in that class. HAYES: Another teacher was not so impressed with Ahmed`s invention however telling him it looked like a bomb. That afternoon, Ahmed was pulled out of class, arrested, handcuffed in his NASA t-shirt. MOHAMED: An officer and the principal came and took me to out and they took me to a room filled with five officers in which they interrogated me and searched through my stuff and took my tablet and my invention. And then later that day I was taken to a juvenile center detention center where they searched me, they took the fingerprint and mug shots of me. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Ahmed said he wasn`t allowed to use the phone or have either his parents or a lawyer present during his interrogation. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And while the Irving police said today they`re not filing any charges, the case is now closed, Ahmed has been suspended from school for three days. That suspension still stands. His story has exploded on social media with the #istandwithahmed among the top worldwide trends on twitter all day long. Muslim Americans have been posting pictures of themselves with clocks to show solidarity with the teenager. While others have been warning the Irving P. D to look out for additional time-keeping security threats. Ahmed`s gotten an outpouring of support from his fellow nerds including retired Astronaut commander Chris Hatfield, the jet propulsion lab`s Bobak Ferdowski, famous for his mohawk, during the Mars Rover landing. Mark Zuckerberg posted a message of support on Facebook, where else, inviting Ahmed to come for a visit. While Hilary Clinton tweeted "assumptions and fears don`t keep us safe, they hold us back, Ahmed, stay curious and keep us building." And from the President of the United States, President Obama "cool clock, Ahmed. Want to bring it to the White House? We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It`s what makes America great." (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: In a press conference this afternoon I met his father who is from Sudan expressed his gratitude for the overwhelming reaction. MOHAMED ELHASSAN MOHAMED, AHMED MOHAMED`S FATHER: What`s happening is touching the heart for everybody who has their children and that is America. When there is some (inaudible) they turn their eyes up and we`re grateful and thankful to them. What happened to our son it is a sign to go forward, to fix (inaudible) to banish who did the mistake. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: While the consensus seems to be this was a major screw-up by all the authority figures in Irving, none of them appear all that apologetic. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The School district sent out a letter to parents alerting them to a suspicious item found on campus ultimately determined not to have posed a threat and letting them know "this is a good time to remind your child how important it is to immediately report any suspicious items and/or suspicious behavior they observe." [20:00:08] HAYES: At a press conference earlier today, the police Chief Larry Boyd said the arrest had nothing do with Ahmed`s race. Irving Mayor Beth Van Doyne posted some thoughts on her Facebook right above the previous posts which were photos from campaign events for Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. "I do not fault the school or police for looking into what they saw as a potential threat. They have procedures to run when a possible threat or criminal act is discovered." (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Earlier this year, the mayor made a name for herself in conservative circles with a campaign against Sharia law in Irving warning of creeping Muslim takeover in Texas. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what do you want people to do? MAYOR BETH VAN DOYNE: I think you need to put your foot down and say this is America, we have - we have laws here already. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Moments ago at the Republican Undercard Debate the candidates were asked about Ahmed`s story and how they would balance security and liberty. BEN CARSON, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t think a 14-year-old should ever get arrested for bringing a clock to school. Right now the biggest discrimination going on is against Christian business owners and individuals who believe in traditional forms of marriage. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young men from the Mid-East are different than Kim Davis and we`ve got to understand that. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: I`m joined by Ahmed Mohamed and with him is Aliyah Salem she`s Executive Director of The Council on Islamic Relations in Dallas-Fort Worth. Ahmed, let`s start with this. When did you first start getting into tinkering with electronics? MOHAMED: I started around the age of eight and nine. HAYES: And what kind of stuff would you -- how did you get into it? What kind of stuff do you like to tinker with? MOHAMED: I would like to tinker with bikes, cars, I would always work with my uncle on vehicles. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And tell me about this invention that ended up leading to all this. It was - it was a clock. How did you put it together? What gave you the idea to put a clock together? (END VIDEO CLIP) MOHAMED: It was a simple invention I wanted to show my teachers, I wanted to impress them by something simple. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: So you put this together just -- you bought parts and put it together in your room, is that right? MOHAMED: Yes. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And you brought in in to school. What were you expecting the reaction to be when you brought in this clock you`d put together in your room? MOHAMED: I thought they`d be impressed by it. HAYES: Did you show it to a teacher first? MOHAMED: Yes, I showed it to two teachers. HAYES: And what did those teachers say when you showed them your clock? MOHAMED: The first teacher, he was impressed but he advised me not to show any other people. HAYES: He told you not to show any other people? MOHAMED: Yes. HAYES: Why do you think he said that? MOHAMED: He told me it looks like a bomb. HAYES: And did that surprise you? MOHAMED: It surprised me. HAYES: So then another teacher saw it, right? And what was that teacher`s reaction? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MOHAMED: The teacher`s reaction was -- she -- her eyes went up and her eyes widened and she looked at it and she said "is that a bomb?" (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And what did you say? MOHAMED: I told her no, it`s a clock I built over the weekend. HAYES: And then what did she say? MOHAMED: And she was like "I`ll take it from here. I`ll give it to you at the end of the day." HAYES: So she confiscates your clock after asking you it was a bomb, you told her no, it`s not a bomb I built a clock over the weekend, I wanted to bring it in. And then what happens next? MOHAMED: Yes. It`s what happened before. Before I showed they are clock I voluntarily wanted to show it to her. I told her "do you want to see my clock?" and she said sure. HAYES: And then at what point did you find out that you were in trouble? MOHAMED: The point write saw a police officer and the principal. HAYES: They came into your classroom? MOHAMED: Yes, and they -- they took me out. I got all my stuff. HAYES: They said "get your stuff, come with us" and where did you go? MOHAMED: I went to an interrogation room filled with four other officers. HAYES: An interrogation room in your school? MOHAMED: It`s a school resources room. I call it the interrogation room because that`s where I got interrogated. HAYES: So they put you in a chair and there`s five officers total and the principal. Did you ask them "can I talk to my parents? Can I call my parents and tell them what`s going on?" MOHAMED: Yes. Yes. HAYES: And what did they say? MOHAMED: They were -- they told me no, you can`t call your parents, you`re in the middle of an interrogation at the moment. HAYES: And what kind of things did they ask you? MOHAMED: They asked me a couple of times "is it a bomb?" and I answered a couple of times "it`s a clock." HAYES: And that didn`t seem to satisfy them? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MOHAMED: No. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: How long were you in room? MOHAMED: About an hour and twenty-five minutes, an hour. Around an hour and twenty-five. HAYES: So what else were they asking you beside "it is a bomb" if you were in there for an hour and a half? MOHAMED: They asked me why I would bring a clock to school and I had explained to them that I brought it to school to show my teachers, to impress them. HAYES: So eventually after an hour and a half is that when they handcuffed you? MOHAMED: Yes. HAYES: Did they say "you`re under arrest" or "you`re being charged"? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MOHAMED: They told me I was under arrest and I asked them for what crime and they were like for a hoax bomb. HAYES: How did you feel? (END VIDEO CLIP) MOHAMED I felt -- I felt like I was a criminal. I felt like I was a terrorist. I felt like all the names I was called. HAYES: What do you mean all the names you were called? MOHAMED: I was called - in middle school I was called a terrorist, called a bomb maker just because of my race. And religion. HAYES: Wait, you`ve been called that before by just -- by kids in your school? MOHAMED: Yes. HAYES: And were the officers saying things like that to you? MOHAMED: One of the officers did comment on me walking in the room. HAYES: What did he say? MOHAMED: He got back in the recline chair and he relaxed and he was like - - he said "that`s who I thought it was." HAYES: And what did you take that to mean? MOHAMED: I took it to mean that he was pointing at me for what I am, my race and he took it -- he took it at me because I was a -- I was just a student, I never - I never had any contact with him, I never talked to him. HAYES: Aliyah, when did you -- when did the parents and you find out about what happened to Ahmed? ALIYAH SALEM, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COUNCIL ON ISLAMIC RELATIONS: So the parents found out when they finally did contact him, his parents, when they were the jail, when they were at the police station there in Irving. So they finally contacted the parents even though Ahmed had repeatedly asked for them to get his parents involved and they repeatedly refused until once at the police station his family, his mother and his father and sister, went up there. Some of the pictures that are circulating on social media are thanks to his sister`s quick thinking. She took some pictures. She recorded some information which was really helpful. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SALEM: After that in the evening time we were notified about the case situation and then met with the family the following morning to get the details of what had happened. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Ahmed was just talking about having been called a terrorist before just in school. Can you give us a little context of sort of what life for folks in the Islamic community around Dallas-Fort Worth is like? Particularly in Irving? SALEM: Well, in the North Texas area, we`ve -- especially in 2015, we`ve seen our fair share of increases in hate crimes and you know negative sentiments towards the Muslim community. But this is something, frankly, that`s happening across the nation so Ahmed`s story is unfortunately not uncommon. It`s something that we`re seeing repeated in schools across the country and jobs across the country, a lot of employment discrimination we`re seeing. But in Irving in particular we`re concerned because there has been recently a very negative climate in focus comparing to the Muslim community and so we have had made - had concerns excuse me, that some of this sentiment, some of this is a result of that growing negative sentiment in Irving from recent events. HAYES: Ahmed, I`m sure you have seen throughout the day this outpouring of support for you from all over the place. Hilary Clinton said "assumptions and fear don`t keep us safe, they hold us back, Ahmed stay curious and keep building." Mark Zuckerberg said you can visit Facebook. The President of the United States said "cool clock, Ahmed, want to bring it to the White House? We should inspire more kids like you to like science, it`s what makes America great." How do you feel about this tremendous outpouring of support? MOHAMED: I feel really well after because before I didn`t think I was going to get any support because I`m a Muslim boy so I thought it was just going to be another victim of injustice. But thanks to all my supporters on social media I got this far thanks to you guys. And the way I see it is -- HAYES: Continue, sorry. MOHAMED: I see it as a way of people sending a message to the rest of the world that just because something happens to you because of who you are, no matter what you do, people will always have your back. HAYES: And has that been true with the kids in your school? Friends and folks like that? Have you been getting some support locally as well? MOHAMED: Yes. I`ve been getting a lot of support locally. Irving, Texas. HAYES: That`s great. MOHAMED: Overwhelming. HAYES: Hey listen I want to - I want to bring in someone else`s voice of support for Ahmed. Dr. Chanda Prescod- Weinstein, an astrophysicist at M.I.T. Which Ahmed has called his dream school. Doctor, you`re there. Anything you want to say to Ahmed about M.I.T. and what kind of place it would be should he want to check you out there? DR. CHANDA PRESCOD- WEINSTEIN, ASTROPHYSICIST MIT: Ahmed, I`m so happy that you`re coming out on top and I just want to say by the way you are my ideal student -- a creative independent thinker like you is the kind of person who should be becoming a physicist. As a theoretical physicist I would love if you took an interest in the mathematical side although you`re clearly very adept with your hands and building things so I hope you`ll think about theoretical physics. If there`s any possibility that you can visit us at M.I.T I would love to give you a tour of the center for theoretical physics and the Cobbley Institute for Astrophysics. And I`m hearing from my former advisors at Harvard College that they would love for you to come to the Center for Astrophysics, the Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. So I really hope that you`ll come visit us in Cambridge. It would be fantastic to have you. You are the kind of student that we want at places like M.I.T. and Harvard. HAYES: Ahmed, are you going to -- obviously it`s a plane flight and such but maybe you can go check it out. I know it`s early for college, you`re only 14, but you know these things start early these days. MOHAMED: Yeah, that`s -- that`s a fact right there. [ laughter ] HAYES: All right, Ahmed Mohamed, Aliyah Salem, Chanda Prescod-Weinstein, thank you for being here. And Ahmed, there are a lot of people who have your back and a lot of people looking out for you and thank you for coming on. And you`re a remarkably - remarkably poised young man. MOHAMED: Thank you. SALEM: Thanks for having us. HAYES: All right, guys. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: All right, still to come, niceties aside, do not forget Bernie Sanders and Hilary Clinton are fighting for the presidency. We might have the first sign the gloves are off. Democrats still have over three weeks before their first debate. I`ll talk to the chair of the DNC about the controversy around that schedule. And later more from my interview with Mayor of New York Bill De Blasio. Those stories and more ahead. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Some breaking news at this hour. Officials in the United States have issued a Tsunami watch for Hawaii after the strongest earthquake on the planet this year. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The 8.3 quake hit west of Illaple, Chile, the largest earthquake to hit that area in a hundred years. It was felt throughout Central Chile and Western Argentina. Right now people living on the Chilean coast are fleeing their homes. The airport in the capital city Santiago is being evacuated as a precaution. Areas along the Pacific Coast including Hawaii are now under a tsunami watch. We`ll continue to monitor this breaking news and bring you updates as we get them. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Thus far, the Democratic primary fight has been civil compared to the nastiness we`ve seen on the Republican side. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: With the two leading candidates in the Democratic party, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, thus far electing steadfastly not to directly attack each other. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The truce may be starting to crack as we first reported yesterday, "correct the record" a new kind of super pack that could coordinate directly with Clinton`s campaign on research and messaging. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That super pack went negative on Sanders, sending an e-mail to the Huffington Post linking Sanders to Venezuela`s Hugo Chavez and the "most extreme comments" by the new U.K. Labour Party leader, Jeremy Corbyn. That prompted Sanders to hit back writing in a fund-raising e-mail that the pro-Clinton super pack had unleashed a vicious attack that was "the kind of onslaught I would expect to see from the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson." And Correct the Record is led by the aggressive Clinton backer, David Brock who was asked yesterday exactly what his group is up to. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the beginning of a greater onslaught? Do you see this as your role now basically to try to do the dirty work for the Clinton campaign that they don`t want to do against Bernie Sanders directly? DAVID BROCK: No, there`s no dirty work involved here. It`s just putting UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hugo Chavez? That`s pretty dirty work. DAVID BROCK: I think this is a political campaign and you`re going to have to draw some contrasts. I don`t think - I mean that`s just part of the process. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, former Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, Senior Advisor for Correct the Record, a surrogate for Clinton`s Presidential campaign. Look, you know politics. You`ve been in politics, it is inevitable am I right, that at a certain point it`s going to be negative. There is going to be contrasts drawn, distinctions drawn, probably attack ads, probably charges leveled between different primary campaign, Hilary Clinton and Bernie Sanders in particular. JENNIFER GRANHOLM, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN: It is the worst part of running for office is that sometimes you have a fight in the home team and I know it makes Democrats -- I`m sure it makes Republicans uncomfortable, too. The fact that on the Democratic side up to this point it`s really been kind of a love fest. On the Republican side, obviously I`m here at the debate and it has been a slug fest. But yes, in every campaign everybody is going to try to unearth contrast material. HAYES: Do you think the contrast that Hillary Clinton is likely to draw is basically that Bernie Sanders is too extreme? That he`s too politically left? That he`s associated with fringe figures like you know Hugo Chavez as was mentioned in this David Brock e-mail? Is that the contrast you imagined the Clinton campaign drawing? GRANHOLM: I don`t think so. I don`t think that`s the kind of thing that she would be uttering. She has been entirely positive. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GRANHOLM: In fact I`ve been with her on a lot of occasions and she has just been ultimately very positive, particularly about Bernie Sanders. I think they have a good relationship and she likes him. But I do think that eventually on both sides -- on all sides and all of these candidates they will unearth material that draws a contrast. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Do you think there`s also an interesting sort division of labor that`s going to shape up because we are now in the super pack era in which it`s far easier for an organization like Correct the Record or other super packs or other surrogates that are not the Clinton campaign to be doing that kind of thing? To be working reporters or sending an oppo or even running ads and the campaign itself can say "hey look we`re not going negative"? GRANHOLM: This is my hope, Chris, that this is a last election where we ever see any of this happening. I know Correct the Record is a super pack and I`m affiliated and I was a co-chair of another one, super pack which is Priorities USA. But as I say I hope this is the last time we have a super pack election and because we elect a president who will appoint a Supreme Court that reinterprets Citizens United. HAYES: All right, Jennifer Granholm there in Simi Valley, a political pro herself, really appreciate you joining us tonight. Thanks a lot. GRANHOLM: You bet. Thanks, Chris. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Still ahead, my interview with Mayor Bill De Blasio about the 2016 race and more. Stay with us. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: I think it`s fair to say that most of the country`s political attention right now seems to be focused on Republican Presidential candidates. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Part of the reason far is that there are 16 Republicans running for White House compared to half a dozen Democrats. There`s also one in particular on the Republican side. But if Republican candidates as a group are getting more airtime, by the time Democrats get around to holding their first debate on October 13th in Nevada, the Republicans will have already had two opportunities to debate their way closer to the presidency. Right now Republicans have at least 11 debates scheduled while Democrats have just 6. And unless Democratic National Committee Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz decides to reexamine things, it looks like Republican candidates will continue to get far more exposure. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: I spoke with Debbie Wasserman Schultz just moments ago and I ask her to respond to what Democratic Presidential candidate, Martin O`Malley said to me on this very show last week when I asked him who was responsible for limiting the debates. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARTIN O`MALLEY: I assume it`s the chair of the Democratic Party. It certainly wasn`t the DNC members all of whom gave me a standing ovation when I said we`re practicing, you know we`re committing party malpractice by letting the Republicans talk about their ideas and their candidates and we`re not saying anything. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: So he`s basically saying it was you and you alone essentially that crafted this debate schedule. Is that true? Is that accurate? REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, D-FLA., DNC CHAIR: No. It`s not at all true. We worked not only with the campaigns but with our networks to build a robust and diverse group of debates and consulted -- I consulted with former DNC chairs as well as party officials across the state parties and came up with a six-debate schedule that we really think is going to be the right balance to make sure that our candidates in the early primary states especially are able to spend the kind of time they need to do the grass- roots retail campaigning that is really essential for those voters to kick the tires a little bit and also to allow for a variety of other platforms for our candidates to be able to be seen and heard in. And so, you know, we got overwhelmed the last time we had an open primary. There were 26 debates, six sanctioned DNC debates in `04 and `08 like we have now but it was important to make sure that we not let that process get out of control so we can make sure our candidates are able to reach the voters and be able to showcase and contrast themselves from one another and, of course, from the circus on the other side of the aisle. HAYES: Two points on this. One is that the O`Malley campaign says you never negotiated with them. Are they not telling the truth? SCHULTZ: Yeah, I`m not going to hurl accusations or debate any of our candidates in the press or privately. We most definitely consulted with and talked with each campaign. All of the candidates, campaigns agreed to participate including Martin O`Malley`s in the six DNC sanctioned debates agreed to the rules and I can understand that Martin O`Malley has the position that he does but there is -- there are some differing opinions as we always have in our party. But this is the right balance. I think we came together and made a good solid decision and frankly when we start in just about a month our candidates are going to have an opportunity to draw a dramatic contrast between the 15, 16 candidates that are there on the Republican side who are doubling down on extremism and any of our candidates who are going to be continuing to talk about how to help folks build those cornerstones in middle-class life. And that`s what we`re focused on. HAYES: Well, one more thing. I mean, obviously certain candidates who are going to want more time, right? But there has been criticism from other folks. This is Deb Kozakowski who is vice chairman of from Massachusetts Democratic Party. She says "how do I tell these really dedicated Democrats who work really hard from top to bottom the debates for our presidential candidates are restricted? They`re watching all these Republicans get all this airtime." Has it been detrimental to the party`s fortunes to have this six weeks, two months in which Republicans are debating and Democrats aren`t? SCHULTZ: Chris, we have a robust schedule and we have got 450 DNC members and 57 state party chairs with our state parties in the territories. Like I said, there`s a smattering of opinion in the DNC that we should have more than six but I have got a party to run. I have got to make sure that we can get our party in the strongest possible shape so that we can support our eventual nominee, that`s why I just rolled out a really muscular expansion of our DNC finance team. You know, we have got six debates. Our candidates are going to have plenty of opportunity. I just hung up with the party chair, a state party chair just as I was coming over here who said unsolicited, Debbie, you know, six debates is fine. They actually thought there should be fewer. So there are opinions all over the map. I`ve got to make sure that I balance everybody`s concerns and make sure that our candidates get the most exposure to the voters that they need. HAYES: All right, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, thank you so much for your time. SHULTZ: Thank you. HAYES: Coming up, as the crisis continues in Europe, my interview with Senator Dick Durbin about his call to allow more refugees into the U.S. That`s next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: It was an ugly and desperate scene at one of Hungary`s newly reinforced border crosses with Serbia today as a crowd of refugees tried to break down a gate that has been blocked by authorities for days. Hungarian police using tear gas on the crowd and when that did not deter those struggling to break through, the police then moved on to water cannons. Some young people seen retaliated at the show of force by throwing rocks and other projectiles over the gate. These latest images out of central Europe are giving the rest of the world yet another disturbing look into not just a growing physical crisis in Europe but a moral one. The White House recently announced a change in policy noting the U.S. will accept at least 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year. But some are saying that doesn`t go far enough. Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois was one of 14 senators who urged President Obama back in May to allow more Syrian refugees to resettle in the U.S. I had the chance to take talk with him and get his reaction to the White House`s latest policy shift. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SEN. DICK DURBIN, (D) ILLINOIS: It`s a move in the right direction but it`s too modest. We need to do more. Take a look back in history. When it came to accepting Cuban refugees when we were dealing with those in the Soviet Union, persecuted Jews, the Somalians, Bosnians -- we have really had a good refugee effort to try to do our part in the world effort. I think we can do better. HAYES: Do you have a sense of what that number should be? I mean, there is an interesting debate unfolding in the presidential campaign, Martin O`Malley has called for 65,000 refugees to be welcomed to the U.S. Obviously Germany, which is much closer to the source of those refugees, is taking 800,000. Is there a number you think we should be thinking about? DURBIN: My goal is 100,000. And I reach that goal in light of the magnitude of this humanitarian crisis and also the response I`m finding in Illinois and other places. I sat down on Friday with four Syrian families that have made it to the United states as refugees. Their stories were heartbreaking about what they`ve been through. The deaths in their family, the displacement. They`ve lost everything. And they said they couldn`t believe how welcoming the United States was. Now they`ve all been carefully vetted and everyone we bring in should be carefully vetted. But I believe there`s a feeling in this United States, a compassion and a caring that many communities, many churches and temples and synagogues will reach out with open arms to help bring these people into the United States. HAYES: What do you say to people that say either we have enough problems or in the case of Mike Huckabee these might be people who, quote, "just want cable TV." Or in the words of your colleague congressman Peter King across the other part of the capital, we don`t want another Boston marathon bombing. DURBIN: Well, let me just tell you, I hope that those voices and that point of view, I hope they don`t prevail. That`s not who we are as Americans. We are not a nation of hate and fear, we are nation of hope. We are a nation that reaches out and shows that we care about people around the world. And when I hear minister Huckabee talk about these people just wanting cable TV, I wish the minister would take a moment and sit down with some of these Syrian families and hear their heartbreaking stories about what they`ve been through. HAYES: There is a line of attack I`ve heard crescendo on the right, among Republicans. Your colleague John McCain basically saying the problem here is Barack Obama. The problem is Barack Obama`s Syria policy has failed. He did not intervene decisively enough, the U.S. dithered. That`s what`s causing the problem. What`s your response to that? DURBIN: In the world of dithering, I hope we include the fact that when the president came to congress and asked for the clear authority to go after chemical weapons in Syria we passed it through the foreign relations committee and, I might add, John McCain voted with the president as I did. But then it stalled completely on the floors of the House and the senate. They were unwilling to take it up because of the Republican opposition to the president even removing chemical weapons from Syria, from Assad`s arsenal. So if you look carefully at the record, surely everyone could have done something different, something better. When the president tried to engage congress on a bipartisan basis to stand behind him, precious few would step forward to do it. HAYES: It seems almost crazy to talk about this but I have to because it`s now in front of us. There`s talk of another shutdown. There`s about 15 days until the deadline. You are beginning to hear a certain part of the House Republican caucus attacks House leadership and Senator McConnell in the senate, basically saying they will shut down the government over funding for Planned Parenthood`s non-abortion services, all sorts of women`s health services. Do you think that`s likely? And what`s the game plan as we head towards the deadline? DURBIN: We`ve seen this movie before. Senator Ted Cruz, who opposed the Affordable Care Act which has now provided by health care for 16 million Americans, he opposed it so much he shut down the government and he did it for several weeks and the Tea Party Republicans were right behind him saying it was the right thing to do. Well, eventually they came to their senses. We reopened the government. And when they did the polling people said "what has happened to this Republican Party? If they believe shutting down our government, denying basic services of our government is some proof of how good and positive they are, they`re wrong." Now they want to replay that movie, another movie some 16 months before an election. I think the American people will remember the old one. HAYES: Senator Durbin, I`m struck by that 100,000 number. That`s something we`re going to be pursuing and talking to all the presidential candidates and aspirants, talking to other members of the senate and the House when we have them on this program to see if they agree with you. I think that`s a strong marker. Thank you for your time. DURBIN: thank you. HAYES: All right, coming up, we just entered the first week of football season and football fan or not, you have probably been bombarded by these ads. And questions are being raised about legalized gambling. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Jon Stewart went to Capitol Hill today. He was there alongside New York and New Jersey first responders and politicians asking congress to renew a 9/11 health and compensation law which will soon begin to expire. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JON STEWART, COMEDIAN: I`m embarrassed that you, after serving so selflessly with such heroism have to come down here and convince people to do what`s right for the illnesses and difficulties that you suffered because of your heroism and because of your selflessness. But I also have a warning. Today on the Hill you will be exposed to possibly toxic levels of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (LAUGHTER) (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Stewart, with the support of New York-area senators and congressmen, met with other lawmakers on Capitol Hill and although he noted he is no longer the host of a TV show, he warned that if no action were taken by congress he would find a way to shame them. According to the Huffington Post, so far 151 House members and 37 Senators have backed an extension law far from enough for passage. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: I honestly cannot recall the last time that I`ve ever gone from not knowing anything about something, to being bombarded by advertising for it in so such a short time until this weekend. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENITIED MALE: I`ve deposit add total of $35 on FanDuel and won over two million. ANNOUNCER: Just choose a league, pick your team and get your cash winnings after Monday night. ED NORTON, ACTOR: And we don`t just play, we are players we train and we win. This isn`t fantasy as usual, this is Draft Kings. Welcome to the big time. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: I mean, I`ve seen TV ads, pre-roll (inaudible) videos, heard about it on podcasts, Draft Kings and FanDuel are now everywhere. According to the Wall Street Journal, Draft Kings was the single biggest advertiser on television in the last seven days and since August 1 Draft Kings has spent $81 million on adds that have aired more than 22,000 times. And it`s everywhere and they have the money to pay for that because it is lucrative. Online sports betting and online gambling are prohibited under federal law, but there`s a loophole that has become known as the fantasy sports carve out. It`s called the daily fantasy sports category. Congressman Frank Palone in New Jersey has called for hearings saying that, quote, the legal landscape governing these activities remains murky. We don`t expect changes any time soon. The fantasy football market is growing, and thus far legal. And those ads are giving beer and Chevy trucks some stiff competition. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio has become a lightning rod and he is battling some of his lowest approval ratings since he was elected by a landslide just a few years ago. Meanwhile, he`s also working to position himself as a national leader of the progressive movement. I spoke exclusively to Bill de Blasio this week down in City Hall and he weighed in on everything from the pope to, of course, Donald Trump. Is there a presidential candidate right now that you feel like is ? One that is carrying the torch for the kind of progressive vision, particularly laser like focus on inequality that you had in your mayoral campaign? BILL DE BLASIO, MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Well, we talked about the mayoral campaign and then working with progressive leaders around the country, put together into an actual agenda literally the progressive agenda, which you can find at That set of values is more and more being talked about by almost all the Democratic presidential candidates. So I don`t think it`s actually about a single candidate, I think it`s about changes happening now in the national debate and certainly within the Democratic Party. Now, I should also say on some of the issues, and the carried interest loophole is a great example of this, the way hedge fund managers are getting a huge tax advantage. That`s actually now being addressed by people like Jeb Bush and Donald Trump. I think there`s something bigger happening in this country that`s very promising, the whole debate on income inequality reaching down to the grass-roots deeply and becoming now much more of an electoral issue. I certainly think it`s permeating what we see from the Democratic presidential candidates. So I`m hopeful we have a special moment here that could be a moment of profound progressive change. HAYES: You mentioned Donald Trump who has basically not in any formal way because there`s only one white paper on his web site, which is about mass deportation, called for the revocation of the carried interest loophole. Do you think Donald Trump is qualified to be president? DE BLASIO: I certainly will not be voting for Donald Trump and look it`s hard to analyze all the various facets of The Trump phenomenon. So much of what he said I think will ultimately alienate him from the American people. We`ve seen some real interesting moments in American politics where someone`s hot for a period of time. I can tell you plenty of examples of folks who looked like they were sure thing and then suddenly were gone. I think the issue here is the frustration with the status quo is becoming much more tangible and a lot of that is progressive. And the fact that even a Donald Trump or a Jeb Bush have to talk about closing the carried interest loophole says that there is an anger out there in this country about a status quo that`s not working for working people and that we`re rewarding wealth instead of work and so I think that`s the bigger underlying current that`s actually going to have a lot to say about the outcome. HAYES: So the question to me on that point, though, is -- and you talk about the progressive agenda, you talk about the campaign that you ran here and actually then having the job is, you know, I`ve now watched numerous times in which you can build sort of consensus around certain policies and you think you`re going to be pushing on an open door and then you push on the door and it turns out it`s been like nailed shut, barred, there`s like 150 tons of steel behind it, right. I mean, this is the thing that happened. I think that was true. We saw it with Obamacare. We`ve seen it even in the stop and frisk policies here. I mean, have you learned things about what it takes to get from point "A" to point "B?" DE BLASIO: Well, I turn the question on its head. Obamacare ultimately succeeded. Do we wish it had been a smoother road? Of course. Pre-K here in this city is succeeding. The reduction of stop and frisk succeeded and crime is down. So, I look at it the other. What I`m learning is these things are possible. Now, I think it involves a necessary audacity. I think -- I always say we all -- we need to learn -- we got from Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the first 100 days, audacity, speed, bringing the people along early in the process. That`s when I think progressive change happens. HAYES: But you also, -- I mean, to me the lesson also is you pay a cost politically for that. I mean, Barack Obama passed Obamacare which I think in the future will be looked at as a great achievement. I think it will be politically popular, but it was not popular at the time. I mean, the polling showed it, he got punished at the polls in 2010 for it. His approval rating went down. You`ve experienced that. I mean, you`ve had approval ratings go down a little bit. I think my personal opinion is you`re paying the cost of that. DE BLASIO: I think it`s a bit again the other way around. I think when you achieve these policies that actually affect hundreds of thousands or millions of people, that`s what wins the day. People experience it. They actually feel the material impact of a policy that served them. They start to feel less anger about a status quo that deserted them when they start see policies that actually support them materially. It doesn`t happen overnight. In our case, pre-K, for example, 53,000 kids last year, 65,000 kids this year. That`s a lot of New Yorkers who are being positively affected by a policy that`s brand new. Same with the affordable housing policy, the same with reduction of stop and frisk. If 700,000 kids were stopped in 2011, and now they`re not being stopped, people feel that. HAYES: Right, but the other side of that is when you do stuff like that, the opponents of it come after you and they come after you in a million different ways, whether it`s Tea Party rallies or the front page of The New York Post, they are going to come. DE BLASIO: And that is normal. They`re going to come. And every good progressive should recognize that and be resolute. They came for Barack Obama. He had to fight his way back. I remind you, got reelected and reelected handily so I think the point here is be resolute, be consistent, be as fast as possible in achieving a core set of early definitional victories that actually reach people`s lives. That`s what I`ve learned. HAYES: What is your relationship with the governor like right now? DE BLASIO: Look, the governor and I have known each other for a long time. We obviously have some real areas of disagreement, some real ideological differences. HAYES: Is it -- I mean, have you talked recently? DE BLASIO: Oh, we talk, certainly. HAYES; Was it a mistake to call him out? DE BLASIO: I`m very comfortable when I express my views and do it from the that is right that`s the right thing to do. But I think the bigger question is not about personalities, it`s about how we move the political dialogue and how we change things. Look, the governor came out with the $15 minimum wage. Now, that`s something I called far in my state of the city address back in February, that`s something our progressive agenda made a core plank of back in May and that`s the fight for 15 I think is one of the best things we`ve seen in a long time in this country? It`s been an extraordinarily successful movement. That`s what changes people, that`s what moves things. And so, sometimes, I think -- a kind of a very strong dialogue is what helps to move things. HAYES: Final question, are you excited to meet the pope? DE BLASIO: Absolutely. The pope is playing a role in the world today that I really can`t find a previous parallel for. John XXIII had a seismic impact on the 20th Century. But by no means the sort of reach that this pope has. And I don`t think was as identified with such a range of issues as this pope, and didn`t have modern social media, et cetera. This pope, the combination of how he touches people, the sort of -- the sheer physicality of the way he embraces people of all kinds, this willingness to speak truth that would have been taboo not long ago, also a profoundly progressive agenda obviously rooted in Latin America, rooted in a series of struggles that I don`t think previous pope`s experienced. What he said about poverty, what he has said about income inequality, the challenge that he`s made to the free enterprise system to reform itself, what he said about climate change, the encyclical is an extraordinary, sharp, powerful document. I think he`s the leading progressive voice in the world today. I really do. And I don`t think I would have expected to say that about a pope, but I don`t think there is any doubt he is today. HAYES: All right, Mayor Bill de Blasio, a real pressure. DE BLASIO: Thank you. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: All right, we`re following breaking news after an 8.3 quake struck off the coast of central Chile. Moments ago, a buoy off that coast registered a 15-foot water rise which indicates tsunami waves, though it is unclear if the waves are heading towards land. The quake hit west of Illapel (ph). And the mayor says one person has died. The town is currently without power. The quake was felt throughout central Chile and western Argentina, officials in the U.S. have issued a tsunami watch for Hawaii. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END