Summary
Fears of war as Russia ratchets up pressure on Ukraine. VP Harris, Blinken meet with European allies in Germany. Russian-backed separatists announce civilian evacuation from eastern Ukraine. Putin to oversee drills of nuclear forces. Trump facing new legal troubles.
Transcript
JONATHAN CAPEHART, MSNBC HOST: So there`s so much -- that and so much more on the Sunday show. And with that, I want to say thank you for joining us tonight. THE 11TH HOUR starts. Well, right now.
CHRIS JANSING, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, once again, I`m Chris Jansing. Day 395 of the Biden administration. As we come on the air tonight, it`s 6 a.m. Saturday in Ukraine`s capital, as that country comes under intense pressure from Russia, facing the threat of imminent invasion.
Today, the United States and Moscow has stationed as many as 190,000 troops around Ukraine`s borders nearly half now in attack position. And late today President Biden said Vladimir Putin has made up his mind to go to war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, (D) U.S. PRESIDENT: As of this moment, I`m convinced he`s made the decision. We have reason to believe that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be clear, you are convinced that --
BIDEN: I`ll take some --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- you are convinced that President Putin is going to invade Ukraine? Is that what you just said a few moments ago?
BIDEN: Yes, I did. Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: President Biden made that grim assessment after holding another round of urgent talks this afternoon with European allies. The President also described what the administration believes are Russia`s next moves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: We have reason to believe the Russian forces are planning to and intend to attack Ukraine in the coming week -- in the coming days. We believe that they will target Ukraine`s capital, Kyiv, a city of 2.8 million innocent people.
The United States and our Allies are prepared to defend every inch of NATO territory from any threat to our collective security as well.
We also will not send troops in to fight in Ukraine, but we will continue to support the Ukrainian people.
If Russia pursues its plans, it will be responsible for a catastrophic and needless war of choice. The West is united and resolved. We`re ready to impose severe sanctions on Russia if it further invades Ukraine. Russia can still choose diplomacy. It is not too late to de-escalate and return to the negotiating table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: Right now, Vice President Kamala Harris is leading the U.S. delegation at the three day Munich Security Conference in Munich, Germany. The Vice President, Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken and 20 lawmakers will meet with allies about the crisis.
Ukraine`s President, Volodymyr Zelensky is planning to join the conference this weekend. But as NBC News reports, the White House is worried that Putin might take advantage of Zelensky`s absence and there are very real concerns about whether he could return to Ukraine from Munich if war breaks out. A spokesperson for Zelensky said they`re closely monitoring the situation and a final decision will be made in the coming hours.
Meanwhile, tensions are escalating in eastern Ukraine along with fears that pro-Russian groups are trying to provoke a war. NBC News Chief Foreign Correspondent, Richard Engel has the latest from Ukraine tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS CHIEF FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While Russian ships today conducted drills in the Black Sea in eastern Ukraine, Russia may be building a case for war through a crisis that doesn`t exist.
Today, Russian-backed separatists there on sympathetic social media channels put out a barrage of images appearing to show people bracing to be attacked by the Ukrainian military and orphanage being evacuated. Air raid sirens tested and this supposed car bomb, no casualties. Ukraine said it was staged.
One of the Separatist leaders called for people to flee to Russia, women, children and the elderly first, because he claimed the Ukrainian army is about to launch an all-out war.
BIDEN: Defies basic logic to believe the Ukrainians would choose this moment, with well over 150,000 troops arrayed on his borders to escalate a yearlong conflict.
ENGEL: Instead, Ukraine accuses the separatists who are armed and led by the Kremlin of firing on Ukrainian territory in an attempt to bait the Ukrainian army into a response.
Tonight, Ukrainian officials accused Russia of using these separatists to create a fabricated pretext for an invasion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JANSING: On Saturday, Vladimir Putin is set to personally oversee large scale drills involving Russia`s strategic nuclear forces. The U.S. army says about 150 American troops and additional fighting vehicles will be moved into Hungary in the coming days.
And two U.S. officials tell NBC News President Biden will be closely engaged with his national security team over the weekend.
As for the man who tried to stop Biden from becoming president, he`s facing new legal troubles tonight. A federal judge has ruled that January 6 related civil lawsuits filed against Donald Trump can move forward.
Those suits accused Trump and others of triggering the Capitol riot. He`s also facing new scrutiny over those White House records that should have gone to the National Archives but instead ended up at Mar-a-Lago.
Today, the archives confirmed that it found classified material among the boxes of records that were taken to the Florida estate.
[23:05:06]
Later this hour, we`ll have more on all of this and on the legal implications for the former president.
With that, let`s bring in our leadoff guests this Friday night, Jonathan Lemire, Veteran White House reporter and Host of MSNBC`s 5 a.m. show aptly named, Way Too Early. Jeremy Bash, former Chief of Staff at the CIA and the Pentagon, who is in Munich tonight, and retired four star U.S. Army General Barry McCaffrey, a Decorated Combat Veteran of Vietnam, and former battlefield commander in the Persian Gulf. He is a former cabinet member and former member of the National Security Council.
What a fantastic lineup we have to talk about the very serious business that`s going on. Let me start with you, General, here`s how the former ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul reacted to Biden`s comments this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMB. MICHAEL MCFAUL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA: He said they have reason to believe it will be on the capital of Kyiv. That to me was very scary. He would not be saying it if they didn`t have definitive intelligence to back up that claim. That is a very serious military intervention. That is not the smaller skirmishes or minor interventions that we have been discussing for weeks up until this point.
You don`t come out and do something like the President just did, and report on sensitive intelligence, unless you think it`s going to happen. And that`s suggest to me, yes, they`re trying for diplomacy, but they`re preparing for war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: General McCaffrey, do you agree with his assessment of what he heard from the President today? And how significant do you see it that Biden says he is convinced Putin has decided to invade Russia?
GEN. BARRY MCCAFFREY, U.S. ARMY (Ret.): Well, I two aspects of that. First of all, it`s clear, without question, the Russians have amassed a sizable combat force, air, ground, sea, that could indeed intervene in Ukraine in a very short future, along with a pathetic false flag operation about American mercenaries, chemical weapons, et cetera. So all the lights are blinking red on Ukraine.
It`s astonishing, also the president said categorically we think they`re going to go for Kyiv, city of 3 million people, street to street fighting, a very short distance from Belarus. I think very easily reached in the first two or three days, the preponderance, the Ukrainian forces are facing the east. So we`re in a very dangerous situation.
Chris, there are some questions. Why is President Zelensky going to Munich? That`s number one. Number two, why are all the overhead satellite photos I see has Russian armor and attack helicopters in administrative format, not deployed under camouflage out the frontier.
JANSING: What does that tell you, General?
MCCAFFREY: And then finally -- say again?
JANSING: That second point, what does that tell you?
MCCAFFREY: Well, I don`t have access to classified overhead military satellite imagery, which is the standard. I`m looking at MAXR, French satellites, et cetera. But I must admit, if you were an armored division commander, you would not have your heavy equipment, parked nose to nose, the attack helicopters wouldn`t be lined up on a runway. There`s something odd about this part of it maybe a deception plan, we don`t know. And I think, I guess a final one is why the Russian diplomats to Putin himself insisting no invasion is coming and accusing us of hysteria. They`re not going to gain anything out of this kind of deception, no surprise to it. So there are still some questions in my mind, what is going on with the pending attack on Ukraine?
JANSING: Which leads me to the question, Jonathan, why this very stark, very frankly, frightening warning from the White House today?
JONATHAN LEMIRE, ASSOCIATED PRESS WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, for a few weeks, President Biden held his tongue White House aides really debated whether or not they wanted to put him out front discussing the tensions as they escalated on the Ukrainian border. And then we`ve now heard from him twice, and just a handful of days about it. And it`s part of an overall strategy to almost flood the zone with everything they have, with intelligence and warnings almost in real time.
As soon as they develop something, they`re putting it out there. It`s very unorthodox strategy here. We saw the U.K. do it as well. And the U.S. over the last week, in particular, have done so well. Well, we heard from Jake Sullivan in the last week, suggesting an invasion was coming in a couple of days. We`re now heard from President Biden going even further saying could happen at any time. And that indeed, the Ukrainian capital would be the top target. And there seems to be a sense here from the White House that this is an effort to deterrence. But if they put this out there, if they put everyone on high alert, if they say, hey, Vladimir Putin, we see what you`re doing, we see you coming, that might stop him from doing so. And they also hope it rattles him and unnerves him.
[23:10:18]
Putin, of course, ex-KGB really prizes intelligence, prizes the element of surprise, and the U.S. is tipping its hand deliberately saying, hey, we have a read on you, we have a sense as to what you`re planning to do. And they`re putting it out there for the world to see. Basically, as put earlier that if someone if you, as analogy here, if a burglar is robbing your house, throw the lights on, makes sure everyone can see him do so, that`s what the U.S. is doing foreign administration officials that I`ve talked to over the last day or so. They want the world to know what Vladimir Putin is up to. And they`re hoping at the last minute, he`ll change his mind.
JANSING: So Jeremy, you`re on the ground there where as the president, we just heard that little clip of him saying Russia can still choose diplomacy. But my question is, do you get a sense from the folks that you`re talking to that if that is the American strategy to rattle him? Could it be successful? Is there still a chance to avoid an all-out invasion here?
JEREMY BASH, FORMER, CIA CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, here`s, Chris, what I think it has been successful at. I think it`s been successful at constraining Putin`s options, delaying his march on Ukraine, that`s given us time, the time has been critical, because during that time, we`ve been able to send millions of weaponry to Ukrainians, we`ve been able to organize a sanctions package that would cripple Russian financial institutions right out of the gate. He has given us time to get our people out and close our embassy and make sure the Americans who were in Ukraine and there are a number of them are with to safety. And finally, it`s given us time to ensure Alliance unity.
So, I think this phase of the conflict, what I would call phase zero, before the shooting starts, which is really the most consequential phase sometimes in war, this phase zero of information and misinformation and counter misinformation, I think the United States has played this exactly right. We`ve done two things with respect to intelligence. Number one is we`ve been very quick to declassify intelligence and call out the regime intentions of the Kremlin. And second is, as we`ve seen their false information hit social media, we`ve seen it real time. And that`s also allowed us to call it out. And in so doing, I think we`ve done a masterful job. I think the Biden administration done a masterful job at constraining Putin`s options here.
JANSING: Yeah, contrarily, Gen. McCaffrey, Richard Engel posted this earlier today. As far as fake operations go, this one seems pretty amateurish. Why would you crane attack the separatists now, when the Russian military is on the border, weapons drawn? It defies logic. Do you agree with that, but maybe the larger question is, when you`re talking about Vladimir Putin, does logic have anything to do with it?
MCCAFFREY: Well, the Russians typically are very methodical intelligent, calculate the risk, only act when they think they can pull off their operation. This one looks so improbable. It defies my imagination. There`s a quarter of a million Ukrainian troops that will fight back night. In 2014, the Ukrainian Navy came apart, so did their ground combat forces. They only have Militia units fighting. These people are reasonably well armed now, as Jeremy Bash points out. They`ve been trained. And I think you`re going to put up a good account of themselves.
So why would he do this? Why wouldn`t he turn off the electrical grid, stop the flow of POL, blockade the Sea of Azov in the Black Sea. So, none of this lines up. The only thing I can conclude is that Putin has decided his legacy is at stake. He wants Ukraine back and Mother Russia. He`s invaded, you know, Georgia. He sees the Crimea invaded the eastern part of the country already. May be bound and determined to carry out an operation that looks to me like a strategic disaster.
JANSING: Jonathan, you`ve had -- I don`t know if I call it run in, with Vladimir Putin. You certainly challenged him at a press conference a few years ago, joint -- there you are at a joint press conference he had with then President Trump. When the White House is talking about their strategy that you just so clearly laid out, do they believe that there is an off ramp that would look enticing, if not enticing that at least would be face saving for Vladimir Putin?
LEMIRE: Well, first, I`ll say that Putin doesn`t break eye contact and it`s pretty unnerving. The White House here is hopeful that at the last minute, Putin will back down. It`s a question of what are his motives here? And it`s been well discussed, including on this panel tonight, that he indeed feels like Ukraine should be part of Russia. That`s part of his legacy. He wrote it about it at length last summer that Ukraine is part of Mother Russia indeed.
[23:15:05]
The question now is, is he still a rational actor? He has been to this point in his time in the Kremlin. But there has been some speculation particularly during the pandemic, he`s been extraordinarily isolated, surrounded by just a handful of yes man, we have seen the images almost amusing of him at the end of like, a 30 foot table, keeping his distance from the leaders of France and Germany, very COVID phobic there in the Kremlin. And there`s no one really around him to say, no.
So if he is indeed committed to going into Ukraine, the question is, well, OK, how much? Will it be a minor incursion to U.S. President Biden`s words of a few weeks back, where he perhaps grabs just the Donbass or a few bit of some territory, maybe it`s some cyber disruptions, but it`s not an all- out invasion. He doesn`t go to Kyiv. And perhaps, you know, the fighting stops and is limited, still terrible, of course, but not the all off, the all-out onslaught, that would be the greatest conflict in Europe since World War II.
The U.S. knows that his primary objectives say Ukraine shouldn`t go into NATO. Well, Ukraine is not going to NATO and not anytime soon, despite what president Zelensky hopes for. So maybe there is still some sort of off ramp, some sort of face saving measure.
The other option is this, is a final point. Putin here in some ways, his strategy is backfired because NATO and the Western alliances are more united, they`ve been in a long time. On the other hand, he has got what he wants. He`s the center of global attention. He`s already disrupted Ukraine, financial markets there in some trouble. And even if he doesn`t go all the way in, even if there aren`t that many shots fired, parking a significant Russian presence on the Ukrainian border, undermining that government and saying, look, this democracy, this Bergeron democracy doesn`t work, and therefore wouldn`t be a model for his own people, the Russians to follow. Well, maybe that`s a victory enough.
JANSING: Yeah. And the other option that a lot of people talk about, Jeremy, is about just destabilizing Ukraine, hurting its economy, which is something that, frankly, is already happening. We`re seeing airlines that aren`t flying there anymore. You know, we`ve moved our diplomats elsewhere. The New York Times has this reporting tonight, let me quote it. "Without outright declaring war or taking action that would trigger the harsh sanctions promised by the West, Russia`s President Vladimir V. Putin has once again succeeded in destabilizing Ukraine and making clear that Russia could wreck the country`s economy."
So is that a possible goal and he could see that as an accomplishment, A and again, look for one of those off ramps, potentially that Jonathan just talked about?
BASH: I think undoubtedly Ukraine has been hurt by this crisis. But look for Putin, Ukraine is a means to an end. The end is to fracturing NATO. The end is to eject the United States, our influence from the European continent. And in that way, Chris, I got to say, I think this whole thing has backfired. Because here at the Munich Security Conference, the alliance is more unified than ever. I`ve never seen so many world leaders speaking off exactly the same song sheet, and people are actually supporting each other. And there`s a sense here that it`s the West has to stand up against Putin ism. And I think to that degree, Putin`s efforts to fracture NATO has eminently backfire.
JANSING: Jeremy Bash, who got up before five o`clock in the morning or maybe you never went to bed. Thank you for being with us from Munich. Jonathan Lemire and always General Barry McCaffrey, thank you so much as well.
And coming up, why the National Archives has been in contact with the Justice Department over classified documents found at Mar-a-Lago. Former Federal Prosecutor Cynthia Alksne is here on what it could mean for the former president.
Then later, the impact of possible Russian invasion of Ukraine could have here in the U.S., why the President is warning about fuel prices again and what it all could mean for him politically. THE 11TH HOUR just getting underway on a Friday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:22:32]
JANSING: Now that the National Archives has confirmed just today that it found classified information among those boxes of White House documents that Donald Trump took to Mar-a-Lago. The key question tonight is, what if anything, will the Justice Department do about it?
In a letter to the House Oversight Committee, the National Archives said, "Its staff has been in communication with the Department of Justice."
Back with us, Cynthia Alksne, former Federal Prosecutor in the civil rights division of the Justice Department. Good to see you, so much to talk about.
CYNTHIA ALKSNE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Good evening.
JANSING: Broad question, what`s your reaction to these latest developments? What do you think the DOJ is likely to do with that information?
ALKSNE: Well, I think they`ll open an investigation. I mean, it`s even though the Presidential Records Act itself, doesn`t have an enforcement mechanism for the destruction of records for -- you know, because they didn`t think that maybe they`d be flushed down the toilet, or that presidents would steal them and hide them at their home in Florida.
So there isn`t an enforcement mechanism built into the Presidential Records Act. But there are statutes that that do enforce and could enforce this provision. There`s a statutes that make it felonies. There`s even one statute that says not only might you have to pay a fine, you might be, have to forfeit your office or be disqualified from holding office in the future. So they have some options.
The other thing to think about when they look at these documents, when Justice looks at them, is what is the reason why they`re being hidden? Are they being hidden as a part of an obstruction so that Congress can`t get them? And then that brings in a whole new different collection of statutes.
JANSING: Yeah. So, I mean, you know, do you think there`s a legitimate excuse that can be given for taking these materials Mar-a-Lago? Could he, for example, just argue that he declassified the materials he took with him before he left the White House?
ALKSNE: He can argue that but you still can`t take them. I mean, you can`t destroy them. You can`t flush them down the toilet. You can`t refuse to turn them over. And remember, these are the documents they found. I mean, they`re undoubtedly in the course of investigation are going to find that they didn`t get all the documents, which leads one to believe what were the people around Trump doing? Why didn`t we have better public servants who cared more about the people the United States and less about their relationship with Donald Trump?
Because I remember, when I went to the justice, my attitude was I represented the people of the United States. Why is it that White House people were picking things out of the toilet and retaping things? Why were they boxing up records that they knew could not go to Mar-a-Lago? Why did they do that? And the Justice Department has to find that out.
[23:25:06]
JANSING: In their letter to the Oversight Committee, Chairwoman Congresswoman Maloney, who`s been on top of this for a while now, the National Archives and Records Administration wrote, "that they have identified certain social media records that were not captured and preserved by the Trump administration. And they also learned that the White House staff conducted official business using non-official electronic messaging accounts that were not copied or forwarded into their official electronic messaging accounts."
ALKSNE: Right.
JANSING: How concerned which should we be about that?
ALKSNE: Well, I mean, first of all, the hypocrisy meter goes (sounds).
JANSING: Maybe once or twice Donald Trump might have accused Hillary Clinton of something like that?
ALKSNE: Maybe he did that, maybe every single person and staff did that, maybe every single person on Fox News did that. And now crickets from them about how to handle this.
I mean, I think if they`re communicating on WhatsApp, secret things that should not have been there, I`m pretty concerned about that. If, frankly, they used their private messaging app to make, you know, tennis arrangements, I`m not concerned. So I think it matters a lot what was going on. And again, if the reason why they were doing that was to hide things from Congress, or hide things from the American people, the Justice Department needs to find that out.
JANSING: And there`s the other big headline I want to ask you about Cynthia, today, a federal judge denied Donald Trump`s request to toss those civil lawsuits that accused him and others of triggering the Capitol riot, what sticks out to you in the judge`s decision? What might this mean for the former president?
ALKSNE: Well, the most important thing it means is, discovery. It`s just another, it`s another concrete block, you know, falling down from the ceiling. He`s going to have to give a deposition in this case. Giuliani is going to have to. They`re going to have to give depositions in the Attorney General`s case in New York. They`re going to have to now give depositions in the case in the District of Columbia. They have problems, major business problems, because of the accounting issues, and Mazars is pulling out. So that their whole house is crumbling on top of them. And the pressure has got to be intense.
JANSING: Well, yeah. I wanted to ask you about that. And I`m sorry to interrupt you. But, you know, you do wonder if they feel like the walls are closing it, because there`s so many different things now, so many levels, so many different lawsuits, so many different stories.
ALKSNE: Right, they have to. Right. And there`s so much pressure with no right answer, like for example, they`re going to have to give discovery in the New York case, they`re going to have to answer questions, the New York case, if they answer questions, it can be used against them in criminal cases. So do they take the Fifth Amendment? Well, they don`t really want to do that, because Trump has already said anybody who takes the Fifth Amendment must be a mobster and must be guilty. And if they take the Fifth Amendment can be used against them in the civil case. So it`s -- all these things are crashing down on top of them. And there aren`t good answers. It`s all crumbling.
JANSING: When you look in totality, are all these things that are going on and we only have 30 seconds left, but what is the most if you`re Donald Trump or your Donald Trump`s lawyers? What`s the most troubling thing that`s going on, right? What`s the biggest challenge for him legally?
ALKSNE: Well, Donald Trump is all about money. So I would say the biggest challenge is what will all these lawsuits do when you combine -- when you combine his problems with Mazars and with his accounting. And I`ve always thought the New York case was the most dangerous for him because it`s all about what he cares about, which is money.
JANSING: Cynthia Alksne, thank you so much. Great having you on the program tonight.
ALKSNE: Good night.
JANSING: And coming up, I look at how a possible Russian invasion could reverberate throughout the global economy. Juanita Tolliver, Stuart Stevens both here to discuss possible challenges ahead for President Biden here in the U.S. when the 11th Hour continues.
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[23:32:34]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCFAUL: Ukrainians are going to suffer, ethnic Russians that live in Ukraine, there`s a lot of ethnic Russians that live in the capital of Ukraine Kyiv. Russians are going to suffer. And we are going to suffer too. Because President Biden and his allies and partners have promised a massive comprehensive package of economic sanctions against Russia that will reverberate throughout the global economy. We are going to be a part of this. We`re not just going to be on the sidelines. It`s going to affect us as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: That`s former Ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul, echoing President Biden`s warnings about the effects of war between Russia and Ukraine here at home.
Analysts say the most notable impact would be rising fuel costs, most likely. Higher prices obviously would add to political challenges for a president who`s already juggling multiple crises.
With us to talk about it, Juanita Tolliver, a Veteran Political Strategist to progressive candidates and causes. And Stuart Stevens, Veteran of the Mitt Romney and George W. Bush Presidential campaigns, who is now with the Lincoln Project. His latest book is, It Was All a Lie: How the Republican Party became Donald Trump.
Good to see both of you. So, Juanita, look, the Biden administration has already tried to warn Americans about the fallout. And he did talk in his speech Tuesday, for example, about rising fuel prices. But if it really happens, how worried should the administration be about fallout? And as Michael McFaul put it, you know, the reverberations throughout the global economy?
JUANITA TOLLIVER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, the President has been very intentional about communicating with the public what to expect throughout this entire cross crisis. And I think it`s paying off with people supporting his move for sanctions. I think one poll put it at 63% of Americans support that move. And when he did that, in his speech naming that we`re going to feel this. He`s making it tangible and real about the impact that we`re going to feel here giving people a heads up, essentially.
And I think he also went on to say that he and his team are going to look into mitigation efforts to address what could be high rise in expenses for energies. And he has to give back to the public on that ASAP, because you better believe, the Republicans are going to jump on this as their newest talking point about him adding to people`s woes right now about him creating additional problems right now, especially during a midterm cycle. And Republicans have already shown that they`re willing and able to attack him on Russia.
I do think that he has to get back to the public ASAP on what that plan is to remind Americans not only that he`s working on it, but that they will have some type of relief coming their way because I -- it`s not going to be a surprise at this point that this reverberation from the sanctions imposed on Russia is going to hit people in their pocketbooks.
[23;35:16]
JANSING: Well, speaking of Republican attacks, Stuart, I want to play you this from Fox News earlier. There Russia reporter is responding to a suggestion that the White House might be ginning up the Ukraine crisis to deflect some of the Hillary Clinton allegations false. Hillary Clinton allegations that are coming out of the John Durham investigation. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, every American should be watching this and knowing that this is deadly serious. This is not some Wag the Dog situation to even mention the Durham probe in the same sentence as what we just -- what we know. And what we can see with our own eyes in terms of the military buildup and knowing what Vladimir Putin is capable of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANSING: How interesting is that, Stuart Stevens?
STUART STEVENS, THE LINCOLN PROJECT SENIOR ADVISER: Well, look, I think we`re in a very interesting moment. You know, since Reagan ran against Carter, Republicans are pretty much own strength and foreign policy, until Donald Trump came along. And what we`ve seen is a complete collapse of the Republican Party, as a strong on Russia, strong on standing up to autocrats and oligarchs. The party now is really appropriating party on to Trump.
And you can`t take back these words, you can`t take back these images. You had Ronald Reagan standing for the Berlin Wall, say, Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. If Donald Trump taking a soccer ball like a train seal from Berlin or Putin in Helsinki, they don`t know more disgraceful moments. And this is playing out now. And I actually think in a long term sense, this may be a shift where Democrats who have a long time own foreign policy strength during Kennedy, it may be that they`re going to return to that.
JANSING: Juanita, this week, the Times wrote that there is a potential for Biden to win back credibility on the foreign policy front, which obviously he lost in many quarters after the Afghan pull out. Republicans have been divided over this Ukraine crisis. Can the Democrats stay unified?
TOLLIVER: I think Democrats can stay unified and they`ve been showing that they are especially in juxtaposition to the Republican Party. And if anything, I think that`s what Democrats would point to when we expect these attacks from the Republicans on whether it`s rising energy costs or Biden`s response to Russia to point to how the Republican Party is fully fractured based on lies, peddled by what we see on Fox, what we hear from the extremist members within the center of the Republican Party at this point, and show people the difference, show people how the different people are responding.
And just like Steve said, like, show them the juxtaposition of Biden standing up to Putin versus Trump hugs, showering praise on him in Helsinki, right, like, show people exactly what they`re up for, because Biden is proving that this is a redemption moment for him on foreign policy. And I think that`s going to continue to play out as he continues to proactively communicate to the public, step by step, what`s happening in this crisis.
JANSING: And whether what`s going on is real or imagined in the minds of some of the folks on the right, Stuart. We know they`re going to attack, right? Donald Trump repeatedly blamed Barack Obama, for example, for the Russian annexation of Crimea. Is this something that reverberates with voters? Is it going to come down to whether it ultimately affects them in their pocketbooks? I wonder, what you think the political on the ground people going to vote in the midterm`s ramifications could be?
STEVENS: You know, we`re really in a moment we`ve never had before and foreign policy crisis where 70% of the Republican Party doesn`t think Joe Biden is a legal president and that person, how do you react to that? How do you deal with that? We`ve never had a propaganda wing like we have in Fox News, Tucker Carlson they`re just reading off of Russian talking points. This never happened. I mean, Walter Cronkite didn`t do this.
And I think it`s terribly weakens the American image in a world of a unified strength and a foreign policy crisis. But I honestly think inside that White House, they`re really not thinking about politics a lot. I think this is a defining moment. This is why NATO was invented. Joe Biden has been a person who`s gone through these crisis before in the Senate. I think that this is a presidential moment, and I`m just glad that we actually have a real precedent.
JANSING: Both Stuart and Juanita are staying a bit longer.
Coming up, the headline states squad politics backfires, a reality check on this week`s big developments on both sides of the aisle when the 11th Hour continues.
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[23:42:58]
JANSING: This has been a pretty wild week in politics for both parties on the Republican side. Former Vice President Mike Pence defended himself against Donald Trump. House leadership endorse Liz Cheney`s primary challenger at Trump`s behest. And special counsel John Durham today distanced himself from the right-wings baseless accusations about Hillary Clinton. But Democrats are facing a bit of an identity crisis of their own.
Axios is characterizing the conflict between the progressive and centrist wings of the party as squad politics backfiring.
Still with us, Juanita Tolliver and Stuart Stevens.
OK, Juanita, Axios describes the Democratic split this way, "The push to defund police, rename schools and tear down statues has created a significant obstacle to Democrats keeping control of the House, the Senate and the party`s overall image." And a lot of folks are pointing to the San Francisco School Board, three Democrats being ousted as a warning sign. What do you make of that?
TOLLIVER: I reject the premise, right? Like I think that statement ignores the reality of everything stacked against Democrats including Biden`s worsening approval numbers, and thanks in part to folks like centrist Manchin and centrist Sinema who helped to take portions of his agenda alongside Republicans. It ignores the reality and impact of voter suppression on silencing voters across the country and ignores the reality that historically incumbent parties lose in midterms. All of those things need to be taken in consideration.
And so I truly do reject the premise of placing anything like this at the feet alone of the squad. Like I am really confused about why these groups are trying to outdo Republicans essentially by attacking their own at a moment when they need to recognize that their centrist candidate, for example, and Terry McAuliffe lost in Virginia. So I don`t think that this is it and this is not the way that Democrats need to move into this midterm cycle at all.
JANSING: Meantime, the Republicans, Stuart, after days of wall to wall conspiracy theories that are filing by Special Counsel John Durham was somehow proof of Hillary Clinton spying on Trump. Durham poured cold water on the narrative, he called it misinterpreted. I wonder if this is a story outside of right-wing media. And even if it isn`t, is it the kind of story that keeps the base fired up? And the GOP wants a fired up base obviously.
[23:45:23]
STEVENS: You know, it`s been a long time since Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State and ran for president. The fact that Republicans are talking about this, it`s just sort of pathetic. There is no agenda here. There is no policy in the Republican Party.
JANSING: But they me know, Stuart, when they do this, and they put it on emails, people send the money?
STEVENS: I think it`s all about money as most corrupt Organizations are. Republican Party really is not for functioning as a regular political party. It`s like a syndicate. It`s like OPEC. Why does OPEC exist? It sells oil. Nobody says, what is your higher moral purpose?
Look at what happened with Liz Cheney. I mean, that just sort of shreds any pretense that this is about anything except power. Liz Cheney is one of the most conservative records in the House. She`s a Cheney for crying out loud. And McCarthy, who is not going to be the next speaker, if Republicans take the House is going to be someone like Jim Jordan, they`re going to kick that guy aside, in a heartbeat.
Liz Cheney can`t -- it`s not a place for her in the Republican Party. I think what`s happening with the Democrats is a function of having a very diverse party, 85% of the Trump coalition was white. It`s very different, but it doesn`t address where America is going. And it`s why Republicans are so desperate to change these voting laws, because they know that the ground is shifting under their feet.
JANSING: Well, one thing that I think we could see bring Democrats together, Juanita, is the impending announcement of Joe Biden`s Supreme Court nominee. And I want to play what Press Secretary Jen Psaki said about the timing today.
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JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can tell you that February is not that much longer. It`s 10 days if my math is correct. And we remain on track to make an announcement about a Supreme Court, the President`s selection for a qualified and credible nominee to serve on the Supreme Court before the end of the month.
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JANSING: What do you think that this is going to look like? And do you think it is a time and in a situation where Democrats are going to come together and not just come together but strongly vocally unified?
TOLLIVER: Chris, I can only hope so because that`s what this nominee, the first black woman nominee. This is a Supreme Court is going to need. She`s going to need unified continuous support now is looking at focus group findings from his strategies that imply and showed that black and brown voters want Democrats to come out in full force just as hard as Republicans did for someone like Kavanaugh. They want them to make sure that they`re protecting her, but fighting for her to make sure that she`s buffered from all of the attacks that we know are going to come from all directions.
And, Chris, I just got to say, I was not banking on the courts being the winning issue for Democrats going into this midterm, but this is absolutely something that`s going to mobilize and energize Democratic voters. And it`s something that Democrats if they leverage it and move through this confirmation process smoothly, can definitely see pay dividends at the polls.
JANSING: Well, on the flip side, we`ve only got 45 seconds, Stuart, but for Republicans and there will be some who want to go after the nominee, whoever she is. Is that to the advantage of the Democrats?
STEVENS: Yeah, actually, I think it is. You know, midterms are all about turnout. Typically 1/3 fewer voters show up. I think if this can be a mobilization to remind Democrats what is at stake? They have a shot at it holding on to the House.
JANSING: Stuart Stevens, Juanita Tolliver great to see both of you on this Friday night, thank you.
And update on what appears to be a confusing new normal in a world still threatened by COVID.
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[23:52:16]
JANSING: In what`s being seen as a whole new way to live with coronavirus, California`s governor is rolling out a first in the nation plan for what he calls the next phase of the pandemic. Our report tonight from NBC News Correspondent Miguel Almaguer.
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MIGUEL ALMAGUER, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT MIGUEL: Moved by the metrics, the national drop in COVID hospitalizations, infections and deaths. Tonight every state in the mainland has or will soon lift restrictions like masked mandates moving faster than CDC guidance, a nation eager to face a new normal will likely still struggle with a hodgepodge of conflicting rules.
Take this year`s Oscars, performers and presenters won`t need to be vaccinated just test negative but everyone else attending must be inoculated and test negative twice.
DR. KAVITA PATEL, NBC NEWS MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We`re entering a confusing phase of the pandemic because, one, there`s some uncertainty but also two I think we have lacked the CDC guidance to determine what`s best to do next. Do we live masked? Do we live vaccine mandates? Do we do both at the same time?
ALMAGUER: With the Surgeon General announcing today he and his family have tested positive for COVID, a new model projects nearly 75% of Americans may now have immunity from Omicron.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, (D) CALIFORNIA: Well, we can`t predict the future. We can better prepare for it.
ALMAGUER: It comes as California`s Governor announces there`s no end date to the pandemic instead saying the state will now follow a COVID Blueprint focusing on vaccinations while easing restrictions and warning mandates like masks will return with a surge.
NEWSOM: We are more capable to understand the nature of this disease, the mutations, its variants.
ALMAGUER (on camera): California seven steps SMARTER plan may not be simple, but it could be adopted in other states. The basic understanding COVID is here to stay and when it spikes mandates will come back. Back to you.
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JANSING: Miguel Almaguer, thank you for that.
And coming up, a look back at how the former president dealt with Vladimir Putin when the 11th Hour continues.
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[23:58:03]
JANSING: The last thing before we go tonight, we heard more tough talk directed toward Vladimir Putin today from President Biden in an effort to deter Russia from invading Ukraine in the days ahead. But it wasn`t so long ago that a totally different tone was coming from the White House. As you likely remember the former guy was pursuing a much cozier relationship with the former KGB officer who tonight maybe on the verge of launching Europe`s first major ground war since World War Two.
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DONALD TRUMP, (R) FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I think Putin has been a very strong leader for Russia. But he`s been a lot stronger than our leader that I can tell you.
Putin likes Trump. And he said nice things about me. He called me a genius.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you respect Putin?
TRUMP: I do respect him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you? He`s a killer dog. Putin`s a killer.
TRUMP: A lot of killers. We get a lot of killers. Why do you think our country`s so innocent?
I believe that he feels that he and Russia did not meddle in the election.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. president, will you tell Russia not to meddle in the 2020 election?
TRUMP: Yes, of course, I will. Don`t meddle in the election, President. Don`t meddle in the election.
Whether it`s you seven GA, I think it would be better to have Russia inside the tent than outside the tent. But at the same time we get along. I like Putin, he likes me. You know, we, along.
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JANSING: The current president also clearly believes in getting along but in his case, it`s getting along with the European Union and NATO. The traditional allies who have stood by the United States and who believe in democracy, not flattery. And so as we head into this tense weekend, let`s keep the hope that a unified message from them can be enough to prevent as the President today put it, "a catastrophic and needless war in Eastern Europe."
That is our broadcast for this Friday night with our thanks for being with us. On behalf of all of my colleagues at the networks of NBC News, have a good weekend and a good night.