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For the Record with Greta, Transcript 1/25/2017

Guests: Paul Ryan, Mike Allen, Mark Halperin, John Yarmuth, Annie Linskey, Yamiche Alcindor

Show: For the Record with Greta Date: January 25, 2017 Guests: Paul Ryan, Mike Allen, Mark Halperin, John Yarmuth, Annie Linskey, Yamiche AlcindorĀ 

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOR THE RECORD HOST: Thank you, Chuck. For The Record tonight, my exclusive one-on-one with Speaker Paul Ryan on a rapid fire news day from President Trump, what does Speaker Ryan say about President Trump`s call for major investigation into voter fraud despite a lack of widespread evidence? Also, Trump`s controversial border wall promise, Speaker Ryan speaks out, does he support it? And who does Speaker Ryan think will pay for it? And they had some tough words for each other before the election, hear what Speaker Ryan says about working together and how often they talk.

Good evening, live from Independence Mall in the great city of Philadelphia, where the Republican retreat is under way just blocks from here and they have a lot to talk about, and so does Speaker Paul Ryan. I sat down with him today and asked him about all the news and some of the controversies inside the Trump White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Mr. Speaker, nice to see you.

PAUL RYAN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Great to have you back, Greta. I`m glad you`re back on the air.

VAN SUSTEREN: It`s fun. I`m glad. This is an adventure. Always fun to start a new job.

RYAN: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK, so I want to ask you a few questions about news of the day, and then your day at your retreat here in Philadelphia, I want to find out about your plan for the next 200 days, legislative plan. So we start with the news of the day, President Trump says he wants an investigation into voter fraud, for or against it?

RYAN: I think it`s fine. I think if -- first of all, I`m sure there is some fraud. We passed a photo ID in Wisconsin because of our concerns about this a few years ago. But if he believes there`s a problem to be looked at, the right thing to do is get an investigation, get the facts. I haven`t seen evidence of this kind of widespread numbers that we`ve been hearing about. So the thing to do is to get an investigation to get the facts and make a judgment based on the facts.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, he has made it sound like that`s why he lost the popular vote. Do you believe that?

RYAN: He`s president of the United States, I think that speaks for itself.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Are you going have an investigation on Capitol Hill? Do you want us to have one of your...

RYAN: We haven`t been discussing that. And I`m not sure what nature of an investigation he wants. But, look, like I said if there`s a concern here and the right thing to do is to investigate and find the facts and act accordingly.

VAN SUSTEREN: Today he announced that he wants to begin building that wall. Who`s going to pay for it?

RYAN: Well, first off, we`re going to pay for it and fund the money up. But, I do think there are various ways of -- as you knows, I know your follow-up question is Mexico going to pay for the wall? There are a lot of different ways of getting Mexico to contribute to doing this. And there are different ways of defining how exactly they pay for it. Point is, he has a promise that he made to the American people which is to secure our border. A wall is a big part of that. We agree with that goal and will be working with him to finance on construction of the physical barrier, including the wall on the southern border. The law is already on the books. It`s been sitting there for years. I voted for it, like, ten years ago, but nothing has gotten done and now we have a president who actually wants to secure the border and we are all in favor of doing that.

VAN SUSTEREN: I think a lot of people are in favor of securing the border, both sides of the aisle, but the estimates are $8 billion to $14 million.

RYAN: That`s about right.

VAN SUSTEREN: And the question is whether or not that`s an effective way to really seal the border?

RYAN: Absolutely, I think you do have to -- there`re more things than just a border security on the border. I think you have to have interior enforcement. There`s a long conversation we`re going to have about how to enforce immigration laws. But physically securing the border is essential. Look, we have a massive heroin opioid epidemic problem in America, part of that is because of drugs coming from the cartels from the south. We have national security concerns. There are lots of concerns which must be addressed by actually securing our border. And so, a physical security barrier on the border is something we`ve all -- I voted for it, like I said, in 2006 or 2007. Chuck Schumer, my friend, voted for that as well, back in those days. So now we have to get on with actually doing it.

VAN SUSTEREN: What is the message send to our allies that we`re building a wall, separate us from them, and Mexico is not too happy. Mexico`s president says they`re not going to play for it.

RYAN: Well, sovereign countries have the right, and I would argue the responsibility of securing their borders and controlling who comes and goes in their country. All sovereign countries have that right. We have not exercised that right. We`re going to now.

VAN SUSTEREN: What about the dreamers? The president I don`t think has touched on that. He has seemed to indicate that he wants to go after people who are likely...

RYAN: Correct.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... to cause, you know, crime in this country, terrorism, but we got this whole category of dreamers. What about the dreamers?

RYAN: Yeah, I mean, that`s something that I think he wants to make sure is handled compassionately, that we don`t pull the rug out from under people because of the situation that they`re in. So this is really an executive order and the ones I think that are coming are focused on national security, on the border, on whether terrorists are trying to infiltrate the refugee population, and that issue is something that we`re going to be dealing with later, and we believe legislation is the way to fix this problem.

VAN SUSTEREN: So, dreamers today, can they count on you? And those would be the people who are brought...

RYAN: That`s what we`ve been saying all along...

VAN SUSTEREN: They don`t have to worry?

RYAN: They don`t have to worry. We`re focused on physically securing the border. We`re focus on those who are coming to do us harm from terrorist states and things like that. That is our focus, and it`s on criminal aliens, people who are violent criminals who have not been deported. Those are the things the president said he`s going to focus on, that`s the legislation he`s asked us to focus on for the moment, and that`s what we`re dealing with.

VAN SUSTEREN: He says he`s going to do away with the sort of catch and the release, he wants to build more detention centers, are you in favor of that?

RYAN: We`re always been in favor of that. That`s been long part of our immigration policy. That is a part of our national security strategy that we as Republicans ran on all through 2016.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are we going to get a comprehensive immigration plan out of the congress? Because addition to issues like the border, we have also people overstay their visas, I mean that`s a huge problem.

RYAN: Yeah. I never believed that one big bill is the way to go. These things collapse under their own weight, and massive legislation you always get ugly provisions get tucked into it. So we really believe that the smartest way to do this is do it in a piecemeal step-by-step right way to get it right, and the first focus has got to be security. So the first goal here is security, internal security, interior enforcement, external security, border enforcement, get those right, make sure that violent criminals aren`t roaming our streets. Those are the things we`re focused on right now. And then, when we have confidence that we`ve actually figured that problem out, then I believe we should fix this broken illegal immigration system which isn`t working for anybody. Image and visa tracking that`s something that we think is very important as far as our security. About 40 percent of people who are undocumented are people who came and overstayed. They came legally, but they overstayed their visas. So this is a complicated problem that we want to fix on a step-by-step basis, prioritizing national security and border security first.

VAN SUSTEREN: Today, there was a report that the White House has a memorandum floating around there that says that there will be a black sites...

RYAN: It`s a bogus deal.

VAN SUSTEREN: Let me say, Sean Spicer had said that it is not a White House document...

RYAN: Right, right.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... but other news organizations, I think even NBC has confirmed that the document exists, that perhaps it`s the Trump administration...

RYAN: No, it`s not the Trump administration.

VAN SUSTEREN: So it doesn`t exist -- you`re saying it doesn`t exist at all?

RYAN: No, I`m not saying it doesn`t exist, but this was not written by the Trump administration.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Who was it written by?

RYAN: I don`t even know the person`s name.

VAN SUSTEREN: Does it exist?

RYAN: Look, you have to ask the administration. But my understanding is this was written by somebody who worked on the transition before who`s not in the Trump administration. This is not a product of the administration. That`s the point that I think is noteworthy.

VAN SUSTEREN: Where is this?

RYAN: I don`t know. I`m in the congress. I`m not in the administration.

VAN SUSTEREN: But I`ve seen all these reports, everyone seems so -- talking about it today.

RYAN: This is not something the Trump administration is planning on, working on, or we`re talking about. That`s point that I think matters here.

VAN SUSTEREN: So, and what about this sort of the companion issue, enhanced interrogation, that`s currently against the law, is that going to be brought back into the discussion?

RYAN: That`s not something we`ve been discussing. I think this came up probably in Mike Pompeo`s confirmation hearings. We want to -- we`re a humane country. We got to make sure that we find the intelligence. We have do it in a humane way following the law.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you work with president Trump?

RYAN: Of course, I can -- no, I do work with President Trump. Not can I. I do work with President Trump. I work with him quite closely, actually.

VAN SUSTEREN: How often...

RYAN: I spent more time talking with this president in the last few days, I think, than I -- on a limb here, than I probably talked with this last president in the last six months. So this is something that he is working very closely hand in glove with congress.

VAN SUSTEREN: What about the executive actions? Is that going to be a problem at some time? Does he understand sort of the division between executive actions and the job of the congress to legislate?

RYAN: I think he does understand that. We talked a great deal about the separation on power and the constitution. And we`re very excited about what he`s doing because what he`s doing is pulling back what we see as unconstitutional executive actions from the past presidents. So what he is doing is taking away the executive overreach that President Obama did which we thought exceeded his powers. So we see President Trump actually reclaiming the proper role of the executive, and undoing a lot of damage that was done to the economy through excessive executive action by President Obama.

VAN SUSTEREN: You raise the economy, is free trade over in the GOP?

RYAN: No, we want free trade but we want free trade that is good. We want free trade that levels the playing field. What I keep telling people is, getting trade agreements that are good for America is good for everybody. That means we get other countries to play by our rules. You add up all the countries that we have trade agreements with, we have a surplus with them. You add up the countries we do not have a trade agreement with, that`s where a massive trade deficit comes from. So our goal is to get free trade agreements, and that means we get other countries to play and live by our rules so we can level the playing field. What Donald Trump has been concerned about, what he`s talked about, is when we get deals that don`t level the playing field, when we get deals that aren`t the kinds of best deals we can get, we want good deals, and those are free trade deals to lower the barriers between trade between two countries. But more importantly, we`re the generous country, we`re the ones that open our doors to other countries, and in many cases we get taken advantage of because of that. And we want to have trade agreements that give us a level playing field, get other countries to respect the rule of law, intellectual property rights, lower their taxes to our barriers, that`s good for us, and that is something that I do believe that President Trump agrees with.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, were you in favor of TPP or not?

RYAN: No, I didn`t like this -- I favored the idea of TPP, but I did not support the administration -- the Obama administration TPP. There are three or four things they did in that, that I though were terrible agreements that were not worth supporting.

VAN SUSTEREN: With us pulling out, does that create a void that China is going to move in?

RYAN: Well, I do have a concern that if we just say no TPP, we`re done, we`re ignoring the region, and then, yes, I think we`re creating a void for China, but that is not what the president is saying. I think he`s now talking about engaging in countries on a bilateral basis. We`ve just had Boris Johnson in the other day, a foreign minister of Great Britain. We have Theresa May coming here tomorrow. We`re talking about starting trade talks with Great Britain. We`re talking about bilateral agreements with other countries in Asia, so that we can expand our influence and get countries to play by our set of rules. That`s to me is something that`s really important. I`ve said this when I pass the trade promotion authority law, which allows us to get trade agreements. If we write the rules of the global economy, we will succeed in the 21st century. But we have to write those rules, we have to engage, and I think the president said TPP is not the way to do it. Going on and getting good bilateral agreement is a better way, and I`m fine with that strategy. I think that strategy can work as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAN SUSTEREN: Much more of my interview ahead. But let`s bring in Mike Allen, co-founder of Axios, and Mark Halperin, political analyst and co- author of Game Change. Mike, to you -- let me talk about these documents that are floating around -- everyone in the media was talking about it today. The White House says that it`s not a White House document. Speaker Ryan says that it was done by someone on the transition team. Do you know anything about -- can you help me at all with this?

MIKE ALLEN, CO-FOUNDER AXIOS: Well, Greta, first congratulations on a very meaty, chatty interview with your fellow cheese head there. And Greta, the speaker was very clear there that it was not -- he was very legalistic in the fact that it`s not an administration product, but this is clearly something that had been considered. And both you and Mark and I have all been getting a lot of documents out of the transition that give a very good sense of where they`re headed. And it`s not necessarily a formal document. There`s a lot of people involved in the transition who were not a formal part of the structure going to the west wing, but we`re getting a very clear picture of where they`re headed, and what we`ve seen from the president in the last five days is very much a reflection of all those administration and transition plans. We`re really seeing Trump in full, including this spate of announcements today.

VAN SUSTEREN: Mark, we saw during the campaign he oftentimes talked about how ISIS would chop people`s heads off and, you know, he was very concerned, this is Donald Trump, about how we responded and enhanced interrogation which is code for torture is against the law. Senator John McCain has been opposed to it -- very, very vocal about it. Is this -- is something that -- is this really about to be debated, do you think, or is this -- we just followed -- we`re just following a document that`s going to go nowhere?

MARK HALPERIN, CO AUTHOR OF GAME CHANGE: Well, no one should be surprised that in the balance between national security and civil liberties, President Trump, like candidate Trump wants to be more aggressive. A lot of people were surprised at how Barack Obama made that balance as president. On some areas he went for national security, including the joint program, including targeting American citizens overseas in ways that put the balance on national security more than civil liberties. This president made it clear that he wants to put the balance back more toward a Dick Cheney view of the world. And while Speaker Ryan in your interview with him wanted to disown the document. The reality is most of the ideas raised in there are things that I`m certain have been debated not just in the transition, but as they go forward making policy. John McCain and some others Republicans are pretty outspoken against these kinds of things. But the base of the Republican Party, my guess is most of Donald Trump`s followers, would find these things to be, if not acceptable, at least things worthy of discussion.

VAN SUSTEREN: And I think our new secretary of defense had said that he is going to follow the law, Mike, so I think that -- you know, that pretty much ends the discussion unless the law changes.

ALLEN: That`s right. And there`s no way that this debate can be avoided. And they can put aside the specific paper, but I think that this -- Mark is right, that this is congruent with what we`re hearing out of this White House and it`s an unavoidable conversation.

VAN SUSTEREN: Mark, what about Mexico tonight? What do you think that president of Mexico is thinking? He`s supposed to be here soon.

HALPERIN: Well, there`s at least one report that he`s reconsidering whether he should come and certainly public opinion in Mexico, there`s a lot of people there who would like him to cancel the visit. Donald Trump is going to put a focus on this relationship. And I think the Mexican government is going to be forced to at least be more aware of what goes on in the Trump administration than they were in the Obama administration. You saw in your interview with Speaker Ryan, though, an echo of what the White House and the president have started to say, which is, well, we`re not going to get a check from Mexico to pay for the wall on the front end. We`re going to find some way to get the money back, but initially will be paid for by the U.S. And I think, look, Donald Trump is a master of moving on from losses when he suffered them, and if he can`t find a way in the short term to get the wall paid for by Mexico, I think he`ll Trumpet the fact that the wall is being built. Speaker Ryan made clear that the Republican congress agrees with him, and that`s something that should be done.

VAN SUSTEREN: Mike, he made a lot of promises in the run-up to the election. And he`s really sort of -- he`s moving lickety-split through with these executive orders. I imagine that the people who voted for him for these reasons are quite pleased with him.

ALLEN: Yeah, Greta, this was a very Trumpian announcement today about the wall. I talked to a bunch of Republicans on the hill after the president`s announcement, and what he announced is long and it`s tall. He`s talking about a thousand miles which is very much the way President Trump likes to frame things, 35 to 60 feet high. He says it will cost $8 to $12 billion. Axios has a report up saying that estimates go as much as three times that. So it`s going to cost more than he thinks, but he has the down payment from this congress, and they`ll go on to pay for -- this congress certainly will, as we get to the fall, pay for more if they need to, I`m told. And the Mexico part of it is an IOU, and who knows.

VAN SUSTEREN: Mark, we have 30 seconds left. The speaker made very plain that the people who are so-called dreamers need not to be worried tonight, but I don`t know -- I mean, he seemed quite convinced of that.

HALPERIN: Donald Trump has appointed people from Goldman Sachs to his government. He said all sort of things that you would think would really annoy his core supporters. This is one of the big issues he ran on. And yet, I believe that he can buy some time. And again, as your interview with speaker Ryan suggested, I think they`re trying to go back to the Republican dodge and saying we`re going to focus on border security first, focus on criminals in this country first, and try to punt down the road issues like the 12 million people who are here illegally. Maybe the issues of what employers do. And if they can do that and secure the border, they think they got the ability then to get a comprehensive reform. I thought for a while, Barack Obama, although he wanted comprehensive reform had less a good chance of getting it than Donald Trump because of the Nixon goes to China factor here, where Trump can secure the border and get people on board, I think he could see comprehensive reform. Not this year, but maybe next year.

VAN SUSTEREN: Gentlemen, thank you, both. Ahead, much more with Speaker Ryan, including news he made on repealing Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VAN SUSTEREN: Can you make the pledge to the American people, if they like the current doctor they have now they can keep it, and the prices aren`t going up over the new GOP...

RYAN: That promise was already violated.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK...

RYAN: That promise was already broken.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAN SUSTEREN: You want to hear what he said next. And as we mentioned, President Trump calls for the immediate construction of a border wall. We`re live at the border. Hear what locals are saying about who will pay for it. You`re watching MSNBC, live from Philadelphia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: We`re back in Philadelphia where the Republican retreat is under way. And we now have more with my interview with House Speaker Paul Ryan on how Republicans plan to repeal and replace Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Obamacare in the next 200 day, I hear from the Democrats who want to repeal Obamacare. And when I think of repeal, I think of just all of a sudden one day we wake up and it`s gone. Is it repeal Obamacare or are you making adjustments, refinements, amendments, change, what are you doing?

RYAN: It`s repealing and replacing with a better law.

VAN SUSTEREN: So it`s going to completely go away one day, and it`s going to be replaced by something the next day?

RYAN: That`s right. But what I think the Democrats are trying to say is like in February it goes away and you won`t have your health care plan tomorrow. That`s not what we`re talking about.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is it a phase out, all of a sudden -- one day it`s over and something else is there?

RYAN: Yeah. We`re talking of passing the legislation that repeals and replaces Obamacare with a patient-centered system that brings down prices and expands choices, so people have more -- better access to more affordable healthcare choices and options, but that takes time to put into place. So we will -- once the administration gets up and running, they don`t even -- they haven`t even processed Tom Price, who`s going to be a phenomenal HHS secretary, or Seema Verma, a woman who is -- a Medicaid expert, they haven`t put them in place yet. We have to wait for the administration to put in place. And then, we will work in conjunction with the administration, passing legislation, repealing and replacing Obamacare. When that actually takes place, will take some time, and the administration will help determine how we phase one out and replace and phase in its replacement. The whole point of this, though, is to make sure that we don`t pull the rug out from underneath anybody in the meantime, but the reason we`re acting now is because Obamacare is collapsing under its own weight.

VAN SUSTEREN: When Obamacare was passed in 2009, the Republicans were very upset because it gave so much authority to the secretary of HHS, which was Sebelius at the time. And something like, 2,500 references in a 2,300 document.

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: It`s a huge number. It`s almost as though -- now you got the situation where your guy, Price is going to be HHS. Could you achieve that what you`re trying to do almost with the power that`s vested in the secretary of HHS in the Obamacare.

RYAN: Well, I think it`s a combination of things. This will take a lot of legislating because there are a lot of things that Obamacare legislated which we think contributed to the massive premium spike that`s occurring. We got five states with only one insurer left. One out of three counties in America only had one insurer left. And I really think that`s because of the legislation. That legislation we`re going to replace, and replace it with something better. But we also believe in conjunction with this legislation, HHS, as you just mentioned, has an enormous amount of discretion that they have so far used to make it harder to get affordable health care. To make you buy what the government insists you must buy. That doesn`t work.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you make...

RYAN: And so we think -- we think the administration can give us a lot of regulatory flexibility which will bring more insurers in the marketplace, which means more competition, more choice which drives down costs, so that discretion can work in a good way or it could work in a bad way. He`s worked heretofore in a very bad way in my opinion. And I think we can do a lot to make a difference, but legislation is going to be critical.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you make the pledge to the American people, if they like the current doctor they have now they can keep it, and the prices aren`t going up over the new GOP...

RYAN: That promise was already violated.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK...

RYAN: That promise was already broken.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. OK, in light of that...

RYAN: Obamacare broke that promise.

VAN SUSTEREN: What people have today -- so it`s not going to get worse? For those who are really feeling hurt by it.

RYAN: Here`s the problem, Greta, it`s already going away. Obamacare is leaving.

VAN SUSTEREN: But I mean -- people are terrified. It`s confusing. I mean it`s the most confusing law -- I`ve tried -- I`ve struggled through that law. It`s very difficult.

RYAN: Millions of people have already lost the plan that they liked. Millions of people...

VAN SUSTEREN: But to the ones who like the new on one, whatever they got.

RYAN: You have 11.5 million people in what we call exchange subsidy plans. It was supposed to be 28 million this year, 11.5 million people in plans. And, by the way, those plans are going up double digits every year. Their deductibles in those plans are three times as high as they are in what we call the large group market. People get healthcare from their jobs. So these plans aren`t working, either. Our point isn`t to give them the same thing. The same thing`s bad, and it`s getting worse.

VAN SUSTEREN: So they`re going to get better under your plan.

RYAN: Our point is we don`t want to sit in the government and tell you what you have to buy. We want to make this work so that you have choices, so that we have more competition. Our goal is to make sure that everyone in this country has access to affordable healthcare, including people with pre-existing conditions. So they can access affordable coverage. That is not what you have with Obamacare.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. What about the people on Medicaid who can`t afford any medical care?

RYAN: You know the reason why? Because doctors don`t even take Medicaid by in large.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what happens to them?

RYAN: So we need to reform Medicaid as well. Our plan will be to reform Medicaid. We`re not going to end the Medicaid. We`re going to give the governors more control and leeway to bring innovative reforms to make Medicaid work. My state, Scott Walker, our governors, reformed Medicaid so it actually works, so that the doctors will take the program. Mike Pence and Mitch Daniels in Indiana, the woman who`s coming in to run the Medicaid program at the federal level, her name is Seema Verma, a brilliant young woman, she made Indiana -- healthy Indiana work so that actually low-income people in Indiana, actually have real healthcare coverage that they get access to a doctor. Those kinds of reforms on the state level we want see happen in all 50 states. That`s not been happening under Obamacare. So we believe we can dramatically improve the way Medicaid works by giving governors more control and flexibility to innovate to make it work for people with low income because it`s not working in so many states right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAN SUSTEREN: With me, Congressman John Yarmuth, Democrat of Kentucky. Good evening, sir. And I`ve seen so many estimates on this...

JOHN YARMUTH, U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Hello, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: I`ve seen so many estimates on this wall from $8 billion to $14 billion. Any time you put a billion on something, that`s a whole lot of money. Is this money going to be -- is this money going to come out of congress? Are you going to authorize this?

YARMUTH: Well, I suspect the Republicans are in control and they`ll be able to authorize it. I think it`s a bad idea. I was part of the gang of eight in the house in 2013 that was working on comprehensive immigration reform. We talked a lot about border security and what was effective and what was not. Walls are not effective when you`re out in the desert and you don`t need them. Walls are very important when you`re separating two urban areas where if you`re actually able to get over the border you can probably get into the underground network in about 30 seconds. But when you`re out in the middle of the desert, it makes no sense because you have border security people have up to a day to apprehend people who are crossing illegally. So, you know, the only thing I heard Speaker Ryan say that made sense was, we actually really need to look at this and see what makes sense and what doesn`t, because electronic detection in those kind of -- and drones and other types of border protecting devices seem to be much more effective in certain places.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there a way -- if this wall is built, President Trump seems to -- he said he`s going to do it. He`s got the power as the president. Is there a way to sort of spread this cost so that, you know, if the taxpayers have to pay it upfront, is there a way to make it so as President Trump says is that the Mexican -- Mexicans will end up paying for it? Can we somehow make that happen or is that unrealistic?

YARMUTH: I think it`s unrealistic and, you know, countries make policies for themselves. And Donald Trump wants to make -- that`s his policy. He wants to build the wall. It would be silly to say we`re going to -- we`re going to create an army and we`re going to have Mexico pay for our border patrol, our border police. Clearly, that`s not going to happen. And I don`t think this wall, having the -- there`s no way to force them to, but expecting the Mexicans to pay for it doesn`t make any sense either.

VAN SUSTEREN: We have a minute left. I`m going to be speaking in a second with Speaker Ryan about tax reform. Do you anticipate that as ranking member in the budget committee, do you anticipate that in this year, there will be tax reform?

YARMUTH: Well, I know we`re going to be asked to pass a budget resolution which will have instructions in there that will allow the senate to pass tax reform with a mere majority and not 60 votes. So they`ll probably have the power to do it. You know, what I always say with these things, when you`re trying to do comprehensive things like tax reform, there will be 20,000 lobbyists in Washington trying to work their will on that piece of legislation so, you know, people think it`s going to be a lot easier than it will end up being.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then you need to stick around, see what Speaker Ryan says about those lobbyists because he said something about those. Anyway, thank you, sir.

YARMUTH: OK, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Ahead, Speaker Ryan -- Speaker Ryan, President Trump, and the issue of tax reform, are they on the same page? And Donald Trump calling for a, quote, major investigation into voter fraud, where is this going? Stay with us live from Philadelphia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOR THE RECORD HOST: -- the issue of tax reform. Are they on the same page?

And Donald Trump calling for a "major investigation to voter fraud." Where`s this going? Stay with us live from Philadelphia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: We`re back with much more from my exclusive interview with House Speaker Paul Ryan, longtime champion of a conservative vision. But is he on the same page as President Trump?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Taxes. President Trump says he wants to reduce the taxes. Where do you see -- in your conversations with him, where do you see the tax code?

PAUL RYAN, HOUSE SPEAKER: We spend a great deal of time talking about this. This is again, one of our pieces of our 200-pay plan, part of our very ambitious agenda. We really don`t think we can get the kind of economic growth we could -- we had the potential to get without tax reform.

So we`re working with the administration on working on tax reform. Our plan, our blueprint, we call it. You can go to better.gop and see our blueprint, that`s what we`re working off of. We got to get our tax rates down. So we got to --

VAN SUSTEREN: Where do you see this going down to?

RYAN: Well he said he`d love to get 15 percent of businesses. We`d love that.

VAN SUSTEREN: S corporations, too?

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: S corporations -- I won`t get into -- our plan says 20 percent for corporations, 25 for s corporations. You got to remember, S corporations pay one layer of tax, corporations pay two layers of tax. So we basically see equivalent, but here`s the point. The rest of the world, they tax their businesses at an average rate in the industrialized world of 23 percent. Our corporate is 35. Our top S corporate, small business rate is 44.6 effectively. This is killing us.

Oh, and by the way, here`s what the rest of the world does that we don`t do. They take the tax off of their exports and place a tax on their imports. We do the opposite. We tax our exports and don`t tax our imports. So we`re putting ourselves -- we`re basically double taxing made in America products. And so what we`re saying is let`s equalize this so that we`re on a level playing field, so that American-made goods and services are on a level playing field with the rest of the world.

And let`s lower our tax rates on our businesses so that we`re on par with the rest of the world so that we don`t keep losing our businesses. More American companies are getting bought by foreign firms or they`re becoming foreign firms or they`re outsourcing. Right now the tax code says if you want to make something in another country and re-import it back into America, go ahead and do that. We don`t want to incentivize that. We want manufacturing to return to America. We want jobs. Economic growth.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, how fast are you going to get them because business people plan? How fast do you expect to --

RYAN: Our goal is to get this done by the end of summer which is for congress quite fast.

VAN SUSTEREN: And your tax is a little bit higher than the president`s plan at this point.

RYAN: A little bit higher because that`s the way our numbers work. So, we agreed -- if you look at the president`s plan that he ran on, it`s virtually identical to the plan that the house ran on.

VAN SUSTEREN: Where are we going to get the money?

RYAN: So we`re very close.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, because there`s a biggest one -- when people pay les taxes there is less money into the treasury and then we got to think about paying things like whether it`s Medicaid --

RYAN: You know where we get the money from?

VAN SUSTEREN: I guess you`re expecting a robust economy and people are paying more taxes.

RYAN: No, and you get it from -- you get it from closing special interest loopholes and carve outs (ph).

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, then you voted against the -- you were one of the voters against the -- what was the tax code a number of years ago, the program, where the 3,30, the loopholes are going to be --

RYAN: I am not sure what you`re talking about.

VAN SUSTEREN: The bipartisan tax commission, you were on it.

RYAN: Simpson Bowles.

VAN SUSTEREN: Yes, Simpson Bowles. You voted against that.

RYAN: It was a (INAUDIBLE) our tax increase. I don`t want to raise taxes.

VAN SUSTEREN: But that got rid of the 3,300 loopholes.

RYAN: Yes, and it raised taxes of trillion dollars. Oh, and by the way, it hollowed out our military, and by the way, it did nothing to repeal Obamacare do entitlement reforms --

VAN SUSTEREN: So yours is an improvement --over that?

RYAN: -- which is necessary to our budget (ph) policies.

VAN SUSTEREN: So yours is an improvement over that?

RYAN: Absolutely it`s an improvement over that. But the point you`re saying, where do you get the money from, close loopholes, close the special interest Washington carve outs and that means more incomes subject to taxation so we`re going to lower the rates on our businesses and be fair.

Here`s the problem with the tax code right now. You send your money to Washington and then a few have a special carve out for your business, for your industry, if you do something Washington approves of, then they`ll let you keep some of your money back.

We don`t like that. Keep your money in the first place. Let`s make our companies competitive and let`s make good business decisions dominate their decision making, not what`s good for Washington carve outs.

VAN SUSTEREN: I find it fundamentally -- I find it bizarre but I bet not one member of congress can do his or her own taxes because it`s so complicated. I mean it`s very --

RYAN: It`s a testament. It`s a testament to just how awful this thing is. By the way --

VAN SUSTEREN: That`s what I mean. I mean no one understands the tax code. Former Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld tells me he sends his in and says he did he best or something. He pays accountants to do it.

RYAN: Our tax plan by the way shows the vast, vast majority of Americans, upwards of 96 percent can fill out their taxes on a postcard. When we`re done simplifying the tax code, getting the lobbyist carve outs our of the tax code, lowering our rates and letting people have a simple system, most Americans will be able to fill out their taxes on a postcard.

VAN SUSTEREN: You`ll blow up K Street then, the lobbyists?

RYAN: Yes we will.

VAN SUSTEREN: You`ll blow them up.

RYAN: I`ve been trying to do this for years. I`m just so excited we finally get a chance to do this because we have the house and the senate and the president who is with us on getting this stuff out of the tax code, cleaning it up and getting this thing cleaned up.

If you can clean up the cesspool of the tax code and give us a pro-growth tax code, that is how you grow the economy. That`s how you take power and money out of Washington and give it back to the people and we are so excited. We have a president that is here to work with us in doing that.

VAN SUSTEREN: One of the president`s programs is an infrastructure program and in the 2009 federal stimulus, a big component of it was infrastructure which a lot of Republicans fought against the 2009 stimulus. They probably didn`t like other parts of it. If -- where are we going to get the money for his infrastructure bill?

RYAN: First of all, I`d say that stimulus was a lot of other spending that wasn`t quite as much stimulus, but the thing --

VAN SUSTEREN: Did it work?

RYAN: No, it didn`t. It didn`t work at all actually. It just gave us a big debt hangover. But the point I`d say is stimulus infrastructure spending is not instant jobs and that`s the mistake they made back in those days I think. These things aren`t so shovel ready. It does take time. I think the real reason the president wants to do this is because we have a crumbling infrastructure problem and you need a good modern infrastructure for economic growth to occur.

Not just the jobs building the infrastructure, but you need to have a good highway system. You need to have a good bridge system, a good pipeline system, a good canal and waterway system for economic growth to occur, for a modern economy to succeed. And so, he sees this and we agree with him, and we`ve added this to our agenda at his request.

We need to upgrade and modernize America`s infrastructure. Our budget in the spring is going to have to figure out how to balance those priorities and pay for it and our big goal is to leverage the private sector dollars as much as possible so that the public taxpayer isn`t paying for all of this. But we do think there are innovative ways to get the private sector to pony up money to fix and modernize a lot of our infrastructure.

And we think that`s necessary just as a foundation for economic growth. It`s not the jobs in and of themselves, which you do make by building bridges and things like this, but it`s the economic growth that comes from having a modern infrastructure that is in dire need of repair.

VAN SUSTEREN: One thing you and I always talk about and I know you have to go so I hope you`ll come back and talk about it later.

RYAN: You`re going to bring up the Packers, aren`t you?

VAN SUSTEREN: No, no. I won`t --

RYAN: So depressing right now.

VAN SUSTEREN: I`m not going to bring up the Packers. That was like too awful. You and I both choose (ph) -- that`s too awful. Come back and then we`ll talk inner cities sometimes. You and I talked about that. You used to work for Jack Kemp and the president talked about it at his inaugural address so, we`ll have another discussion later on with inner cities.

RYAN: I`d love to do that. That would be great.

VAN SUSTEREN: Anyway, thank you and Go, Pack, go next year.

RYAN: Go, Pack, go. Next year.

VAN SUSTEREN: What a rotten year. It was nice to see you Mr. Speaker.

RYAN: Yes, you too Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: It was nice to see you.

RYAN: Congratulations. Welcome back.

VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Ahead, President Trump vowed to start building that border wall. We`ll get a live report from the southern border.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The secretary of Homeland Security working with myself and my staff will begin immediate construction of a border wall.

(APPLAUSE)

Our order also does the following. Ends the policy of catch and release at the border, requires other countries to take back their criminals. They will take them back. Cracks down on sanctuary cities. Empowers ICE Officers to target and remove those who pose a threat to public safety. Calls for the hiring of another 5,000 border patrol officers. Calls for the tripling the number of ICE officers.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: President Trump calls for the immediate construction of a border wall but will Mexico pay for it? I asked speaker Ryan what he thought.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Today he announced he wants to begin building that wall. Who`s going to pay for it?

RYAN: First off, we`re going to pay for it and front the money up, but I do think that there are various ways of as you know and I know your follow- up question is -- is Mexico going to pay for the wall? There are a lot of different ways of getting Mexico to contribute to doing this and there are different ways of defining how exactly they pay for it.

Point is, he has a promise he made to the American people which is to secure our border. A wall is a big part of that. We agree with that goal and we will be working with him to finance construction of the physical barrier including the wall on the southern border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: NBC`s Gadi Schwartz is in the border town of Nogales, Arizona. Gadi

GADI SCHWARTZ, CORRESPONDENT, NBC NEWS: Hey, Greta, yes. We`re here in Nogales, Arizona and that over there is Nogales, Mexico. Both of these communities seem to be on the same page when it comes to their opposition to this wall, in fact, to this fence, too. A lot of them were telling us they don`t respect this fence. They see a border patrol and the border patrol will apprehend them but they don`t really see this as a deterrent. One man told us it takes about 15 seconds to climb over that fence.

Now, we were talking to a lot of the people down along the fence on both sides of the border. A lot of them telling us that this was about family. They`ve got family over here in the United States and family over here in Mexico. And they were saying that the fence right now, as it is where you can see through it, serves as somewhat of a meeting place for families.

They come here, they speak to each other. Some families come very regularly. Other families -- we saw one woman come here and she hadn`t seen her sister in 11 years. Here`s a little bit about what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPOKEN IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

SCHWARTZ: She says that every eight days that her kids come to the wall and then she`s able to communicate with them.

Do you think that a lot of people on this side of the border would work on the wall?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think so.

SCHWARTZ: No, you don`t think so? Why not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because nobody like Trump over here.

SCHWARTZ: Nobody likes Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody hates him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHWARTZ: Greta, just a little while ago you were asking that $10 to $15 billion question -- who is going to pay for that wall? That`s a big concern for the people on the Mexican side of the border. They say that they have heard Trump say he wants them to pay for it. Obviously, Enrique Pena Nieto, the president of Mexico, has said that the United States is going to pay for it. They are not going to pay for it so that is still yet to be seen. Greta?

VAN SUSTEREN: Gadi, thank you.

Speaker Ryan says he`s fine with Trump`s call for a major investigation into voter fraud. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: President Trump took to twitter today calling for a major investigation into voter fraud despite any evidence. Speaker Ryan telling me though that he is fine with it and open to an investigation. Annie Linskey is the national political reporter for the "Boston Globe." Yamiche Alcindor, is a reporter for the "New York Times" and MSNBC contributor. Yamiche, tell me where this investigation is going to go if any place?

YAMICHE ALCINDOR, CONTRIBUTOR, MSNBC: It`s really hard to say where it`s going to go because as of now there`s really no evidence that there is widespread voter fraud. And I should add that President Trump`s lawyers in defending him against a recount that Jill Stein asked for, they also said that there was no evidence of widespread voter fraud. So it`s going to be interesting to see what states and what he considers voter fraud.

VAN SUSTEREN: Annie, you know, we`re always going to find some fraud in anything. I think the key here is whether, you know, there`s widespread, and certainly enough to change the popular vote significantly. But I don`t know who`s going to do this investigation. I know President Trump expects it to be Capitol Hill, DOJ investigation, a task force. Do you have any insight?

ANNIE LINSKEY, POLITICAL REPORTER, BOSTON GLOBE: That part is much like much of the story, very unclear. I mean the thing, Greta, that does seem very clear is that Donald Trump seems to be able to see things and see enemies where they don`t exist or see people where they don`t exist.

Whether it`s looking out on the field and at the mall and seeing supporters who were not actually there and complaining about his crowd size, or looking at the election results and seeing this massive amount of voter fraud, according to him, that there is no evidence of.

And that seems to be the pattern with this president, is that he is fighting these phantom enemies. Meanwhile, there are very real issues to take on.

VAN SUSTEREN: Yamiche, it would probably be smart at least if I were advising the president, he hasn`t asked me, of course. I haven`t spoken to him, but to figure out a way to sort of get away from this. I mean it`s always good if the states can examine -- the Secretary of State, the individual states can make sure that they have votes that have some integrity, but I think he needs to get out of this one.

ALCINDOR: I think there are a lot of people who feel that way. I would imagine that a lot of Republicans are thinking, look, we`ve been waiting so long to have all this control and now we have it. I was looking at your interview with Paul Ryan. He really felt -- he looked giddy when he was talking about all the things that they could do with the tax reform.

So this idea that the president is still talking about crowd sizes on one day and then launching an investigation into voter fraud on another day, it just seems kind of whimsical and bizarre because there are a lot of things they could be doing. They could really be implementing conservative ideals and, of course, he is doing that. He is signing all these executive orders but just have this still be on his plate and be talking about voter fraud when there is no evidence is just bizarre.

VAN SUSTEREN: And of course, we have 20 seconds left, but the media certainly takes the bait on all these stories.

LINSKEY: Yes. Well, that`s right. Although it does make you wonder, I mean, why is he sort of undermining the legitimacy of his own win? I mean, it really is head scratching as to why this is a topic that he was talking about.

VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you, both.

And "For The Record" tonight a secret service agent, a serious message and what we should all agree on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Back here in Philadelphia, I have something to say "For The Record." Wow! Anyway, for the record, you`d have to have your head buried in the sand not know the nation is deeply divided and some people are saying all sorts of dopey and emotional and careless things, even incendiary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MADONNA, SINGER: I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House. But I know that this won`t change anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Lots of the things said, the dopey, and yes, even the incendiary like Madonna`s comment are protected by the first amendment. I do think it was a stupid thing to say but I don`t think Madonna will blow up the White House, although it is indeed true, there are others out there who act on things they hear like the guy from North Carolina who showed up at my neighborhood pizza joint because he read on the internet the ridiculous conspiracy theory that Hillary Clinton`s campaign was running a child trafficking network in that pizza joint. I go there often. I only see families and pizza.

And while the first amendment is vast, there`s a line which brings me to this. Secret service agent Kerry O`Grady posted on her Facebook page that she would rather do jail time than take a bullet for President Donald Trump. That`s my line crossed.

Whether you`re for or against President Trump, that`s the job of the Secret Service, at least for those on protective detail. So, that agent should be fired. Yeah, I know. She backed down on it but she crossed that line. Not only has she said she won`t do her job, but that is the kind of serious message that could taint the Secret Service. That`s very dangerous.

P.S. I really hate it when women are bad role models. One step forward, two steps back. Thanks for watching from Philly. See you tomorrow night right here at 6:00 p.m. eastern. If you can`t watch live, set your DVR and follow me on twittere @Greta. Look at Facebook for behind scenes videos and more from our interview with Speaker Ryan. "Hardball" with Chris Matthews is starting right now.