All in with Chris Hayes, Transcript 2/16/2017

Elijah Cummings, Tim Carney, David Jolly, Cristina Jimenez, Jim Manley

Show: All in with Chris Hayes
Date: February 16, 2017
Guest: Elijah Cummings, Tim Carney, David Jolly, Cristina Jimenez, Jim Manley 

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HARDBALL HOST: – to help them get the Trump
administration story straight instead of damning their right under the
first amendment to tell it. That`s HARDBALL for now. Thanks for being
with us. “ALL IN” with Chris Hayes starts right now.


absolutely real. The news is fake.

HAYES: The President finally meets the press.

TRUMP: I have nothing to do with Russia. To the best of my knowledge, no
person that I deal with does.

HAYES: The stunning cross-examination of an American President over his
campaign`s reported ties with Russia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you`re not aware of any contacts during the
course of the election?

TRUMP: Look, look, look –

HAYES: And explosive new reporting that the President`s former National
Security Advisor misled the FBI.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you direct Mike Flynn to discuss sanctions with
the Russian Ambassador?

TRUMP: No, I didn`t.

HAYES: Tonight, the top democrat on Oversight, Elijah Cummings, on
President Trump and the Russians. Plus, a look at today`s east room attack
on the truth.

TRUMP: I inherited a mess. We had a very smooth rollout of the travel
ban. I guess it was the biggest Electoral College win since Ronald Reagan.

HAYES: Then, why Democrats are being locked out of meetings with ICE, as
immigration raids escalate. And with ObamaCare repeal slowed and a travel
ban stalled, the case the resistance is winning.

TRUMP: This administration is running like a fine-tuned machine.

HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.

Good evening from New York, I`m Chris Hayes. And we have some Breaking
News this hour. NBC News confirms retired Vice Admiral Robert Harward has
turned down President Trump`s offer to replace Michael Flynn as National
Security Advisor, yet another setback for an administration that has had
its full share of them this week. We`ll have more on that shortly.
Meanwhile, a mid-mounting questions about his administrations and campaigns
connections to Russia and Russian Intelligence officials. President Trump
today, held a press conference ostensibly to introduce his new pick for
Labor Secretary, Alexander Acosta, that man tapped after the withdrawal
yesterday of Trump`s first pick for that job, fast food executive, Andrew

What ensued, however, was a dizzying 76-minute spectacle in which the
President lashed out at the media and insisted his administration is
running like a quote, “fine-tuned machine.” As reporters pressed him over
and over about his links to Russian Intelligence. Among the Trump allies
who reportedly spoke to the Russians during the campaign was the
President`s now former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn seen here
leading a chant of “lock her up” at the Republican National Convention.
Flynn is confirmed to have spoken to the Russian Ambassador during the
transition period and he resigned Monday following revelations he lied
about that conversation, falsely claiming he did not talk to the ambassador
about the Obama administration`s sanctions against Russia. In fact, the
sanctions were reportedly a main subject of Flynn`s conversation.

And now, another bombshell, The Washington Post reporting that Flynn denied
discussing the sanctions in an FBI interview. As the Post points out,
lying to the FBI is a felony, though the Trump Justice Department can
choose not to prosecute. Now, before we get into the President`s
remarkable comments at today`s press conference, it is important to set a
baseline for his truthfulness. In his opening remarks, before he was even
asked a single question from the press corps, the President claimed his
Electoral College victory was the biggest since President Ronald Reagan.
Watch what happens when our own NBC News Peter Alexander just a few minutes
later points out that claim is simply and demonstrably false.


PETER ALEXANDER, NBC NEWS JOURNALIST: Very simply, you said today that you
had the biggest electoral margin since Ronald Reagan with 304, 306
electoral votes. In fact, President Obama got 365 -

TRUMP: Well, I`m talking about republican.

ALEXANDER: But President Obama 333 and George H.W. Bush 426 when he won as
President so why should Americans trust -

TRUMP: Well, no, I was - I was given that information. I don`t know. I
was just given it. We had a very, very big margin.

ALEXANDER: I guess my question is why should Americans trust you when you
accuse the information they receive of being fake when you`re providing
information that`s not accurate.

TRUMP: Well, I don`t know, I was given that information. I was given –
actually, I`ve seen that information around but it was a very substantial


TRUMP: “I was given that information.” “I`ve seen that information
around.” It is, of course, not true information. There was one question
the President was asked three times in today`s press conference. Did the
President of his aides have contact with the Russians during the campaign,
a period when, according to U.S. Intelligence Agencies, the Russians were
actively working to help candidate Trump win through electoral subterfuge
and sabotage? Intelligence Officials say that Trump`s aides did, in fact,
have repeated contacts with Russian intelligence. The President, however,
refused to give a straight answer.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. I was just hoping that we could get a yes
or no answer on one of these questions involving Russia. Can you say
whether you are aware that anyone who advised your campaign had contacts
with Russia during the course of the election?

TRUMP: Well, I told you, General Flynn obviously was dealing. So that`s
one person. But he was dealing, as he should have been.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During the election?

TRUMP: No, no, nobody that I know of. Nobody that –

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you`re not aware of contacts during the course -

TRUMP: Look, look, look.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: - of the election?

TRUMP: How many times do I have to answer this question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you just say yes or no.

TRUMP: Russia is a ruse. I know you have to get up and ask a question.
It`s so important. Russia is a ruse. I have nothing to do with Russia.


HAYES: The President claimed the entire Russia story is “fake news” put
out by the media, but he perhaps inadvertently made some news when he said
- when asked if the leaks that have driven that story are in fact real.


TRUMP: Well, the leaks are real. You`re the one that wrote about them and
reported them. I mean, the leaks are real. You know what they said, you
saw it and the leaks are absolutely real. The news is fake because so much
of the news is fake.


HAYES: Joining me now, Democratic Congressman Elijah Cummings of Maryland,
ranking member on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
Were you satisfied by the President`s answers today to those questions
about Russia?

As a matter of fact, the President left more questions to be answered, to
be frank with you. And I think we`re going to have to some kind of way get
Lieutenant General Flynn in a room, swear him in, and try to get to the
bottom line of certain questions. Clearly, the President did not address
the question of whether he talked to Lieutenant General Flynn about
sanctions. He - as a matter of fact, he went on to say that if it were -
if Lieutenant General Flynn had not had discussions with the Russians, he
would have told him to -

HAYES: Yes. Let me - Congressman, I want to – ,

CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE) very interesting.

HAYES: Yes, Congressman, I actually have that bit of sound, which I found
to be one of the strangest moments. I want to play it and get your
response to it. Because it`s very odd, he`s asked directly, “Did you
direct Michael Flynn to talk to the Ambassador on sanctions day?” Here`s
what he had to say.


TRUMP: No. I fired him of because of what he said to Mike Pence, very
simple. Mike was doing his job. He was calling countries and his
counterparts. So it certainly would have been OK with me if he did it. I
would have directed him to do it if I thought he wasn`t doing it.


HAYES: Do you understand that?

CUMMINGS: No. Unfortunately our President says quite often contradictory
statements within a minute of each other. And so - but we - that`s why we
need to have this Bipartisan Committee somewhat like the 9/11 committee of
distinguished citizens, no congressmen, no senators, but bipartisan, to
really get into how all of this happened, what was the relationship between
the Trump campaign and the Russians and try to figure out how to make sure
that this does not happen again. And by the way, we - our bill,
Congressman Swalwell and my bill, which is a bill to create that commission
for the first time today, got our first republican sponsor - co-sponsor.
We already had all of the democrats, so hopefully, this is going to open
the door and some republicans will begin to join us on that.

HAYES: I want to be clear on this. You`re saying that you now have a
republican co-sponsor and a bill to create a 9/11-style commission to
investigate the Russian hacking?

CUMMINGS: That - we got the person -

HAYES: Who is that?

CUMMINGS: That is a congressman from North Carolina. I won`t get into his
name right now. But he`s already agreed to do it.

HAYES: He`s agreed but it hasn`t been made public.

CUMMINGS: No, he`s - no, he`s - it will be public tomorrow.

HAYES: OK. Well, we`ll make a - make a little news tonight.

CUMMINGS: Oh, yes.

HAYES: There is - there is seemingly more interest from your colleague
across the aisle, Jason Chaffetz on your committee in investigating leaks
than what has been revealed by those leaks. And I understand this is
something that is of great – obviously classified information important,
the transmission of that. Chaffetz saying in a letter, he asked the DOJ
Inspector General to investigate the Flynn leaks, he sent a letter to that
aspect. The President himself has said, “The spotlight has finally been
put on low-life leakers. They will be caught.” And New York Times
reporting that there`s going to be an intelligence review possibly by
billionaire private equity, a guy named Steve Feinberg to sort of maybe
hunt through the intelligence agencies. Is there a war being declared on
the Intelligence Community?

CUMMING: Sadly – and I say it very sadly, I think there is. One of the
things that is bothering - let me be clear, I don`t like the leakage of
information, particularly classified information, but you got to understand
what`s happening here, Chris. We have a group of agents, some in CIA, some
in the FBI, they don`t know who the President is. They don`t know whether
Bannon is making the rules, they don`t know whether this 31-year-old fellow
named Miller is making the rules, and they don`t know whether President
Trump is running the country. They don`t know. So they don`t have any -
they have - a lot of them have lost faith. And so, what they`re doing now
is going to the media and trying to get their stories out.

Chris, this reminds me so much of what Chaffetz and I did with the Secret
Service. The Secret Service had similar types of problems. They couldn`t
- they couldn`t - the Secret Service Agents were coming to us because they
couldn`t go to their higher ups. And so - and so, they were fearing
retaliation, they didn`t know - they were - they were fearing that nobody
would really listen to them and they didn`t know where to go. So what did
they do? They come to us. And it`s not necessarily, Chris, a thing of
partisanship, it`s people who are fighting for their democracy. Period.

HAYES: So, you don`t - so you - I want to - I want to get to something
that President actually said about you, a story he told about you in just a


HAYES: But one more question on this line here.


HAYES: There are people who say, and I think - across the ideological
spectrum, there`s something dangerous about (AUDIO GAP) Community
sabotaging elected President by putting these (AUDIO GAP) control back from
the - from the White house. You (AUDIO GAP) defense of democracy, is what
you`re saying?

CUMMINGS: I think it is a defense of democracy, but at the same time, I
also think it`s dangerous. We - what President Trump needs to do is sit
down with the Intelligence Community. Keep in mind that he beat up on them
pretty bad early on and - but he needs to talk to them because they - I
think they don`t trust that if they give them the information, that it`s
going to be effectively dealt with.

HAYES: And they don`t -

CUMMINGS: They don`t think so.

HAYES: They also appear to believe, some of them, that he is possibly
implicated or compromised which is part of what the commission that you`re
proposing would investigate. I want to - I want to play a bit of the press
conference that revolved around you, sir, today. The President told a
story about what he said was a sort of canceled meeting between two of you.
I`d like to play that and get your side of things.


HAYES: Take a listen.


TRUMP: I (AUDIO GAP) with Congressman Cummings and he was all excited, and
then he said, “Oh, I can`t move, it might be bad for me politically, I
can`t have that meeting.” I was all set to have the meeting. You know, we
called him and called him, and he was all set. I spoke to him on the
phone, very nice guy.

meeting with you as well.

TRUMP: He wanted it, but we called, called, called, called, they can`t
make a meeting with him. Every day I walk in I said, I would like to meet
with him, because I do want to solve the problem. But he probably was told
by Schumer or somebody like that, some other lightweight, he was probably
told - he was probably told don`t meet with Trump, it`s bad politics. And
that`s part of the problem of this country.


HAYES: Is that an accurate characterization of what happened?

CUMMINGS: No. It`s not accurate. We never - the meeting was never
scheduled. As a matter of fact, we were working on a meeting and I - his
staff fully understands that we were meeting about the high price of
prescription drugs, and they know that I was working with Bernie Sanders
who I`ve been working on the high price of prescription drugs for the last
three or four years. And Bernie and I are putting together a bill and I
wanted to go in, Chris, whenever I met with the President to present the
bill to him, because he knew that`s what I wanted to meet with him about.
But I wanted him to sign on and say, “You know what, I`m going to convince
the Republicans and the Senate in the House to help me with this bill, so
we can get it through, so that we can help Americans (AUDIO GAP) so that`s
what it`s all about.

HAYES: So for the record, you would - my understanding, (AUDIO GAP)

CUMMINGS: (AUDIO GAP) forward to meeting with the President.


CUMMINGS: I can hardly wait.

HAYES: Let me ask you - one more question I have here, and that`s about
April Ryan who is the - who the reporter who asked that question who you
saw in that clip.


HAYES: I would just like you to respond to the interaction she had, a
question she asked about the Congressional Black Caucus and his response.
Take a listen.



RYAN: Are you going to include the CBC, Mr. President, in your
conversations with your urban agenda, your intercity agenda as well as -

TRUMP: Am I going to include who?

RYAN: Are you going to include the Congressional Black Caucus and the
Congressional spectacle -

TRUMP: Well, I would. I tell you what, do you want to set up the meeting?
Do you want to set up the meeting?

RYAN: No, no, no.

TRUMP: Are they friends of yours?

RYAN: I`m just a reporter.

TRUMP: Go, get up. Set up the meeting.

RYAN: I know -


HAYES: What do you make of that?

CUMMINGS: That was interesting.


CUMMINGS: Well, I mean, first of all, I don`t think he knew what the CBC
was. And then, I think, Chris, the young lady, Miss Ryan, cleared it up
and basically knew what it was. You know, I think, you know a lot of
people assume that all black people know (AUDIO GAP) I mean, and then they
appear to the President (AUDIO GAP) would ask somebody in the press pool to
set up a meeting with the Congressional Black Caucus, he`s the President of
the United States of America, he can make that phone call himself. So, you
know, I mean, I kind of laughed it off, but it`s consistent what we`ve -
what we`ve seen from President Trump all along.

HAYES: And the very least he did not ask Frederick Douglass to set that
meeting up.


CUMMINGS: That`s right.

HAYES: Congressman Elijah Cummings, thanks for joining me. I appreciate

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

HAYES: Coming up next, can we talk about what we witnessed today? How to
deal with the President of the United States whose words and statements
cannot be taken at face value. That is after this two-minute break.



TRUMP: You`ll have a lower approval rate than Congress. I think that`s
right. I don`t know. Peter, is that one right? Because, you know, I
think they have lower - I heard lower than Congress. The public doesn`t
believe you people anymore. Then maybe I had something to do with that, I
don`t know. But they don`t believe you.


HAYES: There`s more to Donald Trump`s war on the media than simply using
them as Expedia, a political foil to replace having an actual opponent in
an election. It`s a battle, really, over the truth and who controls it.
For this President, it seems, objective facts aren`t even really part of
the equation. Instead, truth is the reality defined by whomever commands
power and public opinion. We saw that play out in the President`s attempt
to the weird Jedi mind trick over his inauguration crowds which were
observably smaller than President Obama`s. We saw it today in his
description of the travel ban which produced chaos that played out live on
social media and the news.


TRUMP: Let me tell you about the travel ban. We had a very smooth rollout
of the travel ban but we had a bad court. We had a bad decision. That`s
the only thing that was wrong with the travel ban. Very bad for the safety
and security of our country. The rollout was perfect.


HAYES: I`m joined now by Tim Carney, Senior Political Columnist of the
Washington Examiner. Do you - Tim your - do you recognize a sort of
special category of untruthfulness from this President that`s distinct
from, like, the mundane and normal untruthfulness of politicians in

All politicians - well, almost every politician lies. Politicians as a
class lie. Donald Trump lies more and in a different and sometimes more
baffling way than the average politician. But I think that what you were
getting at there, that he`s sort of fighting over the idea of the truth. I
think he`s aided in that by the fact that the media, which messes up when
covering every politician, messes up also different in degree when covering
Donald Trump.

HAYES: This is – this is the line that I`ve heard from the not pro-Trump
but the kind of anti-anti-Trump right, which I would -I would put you sort
of in, right?

CARNEY: Maybe.

HAYES: Which is the idea of, I don`t like Trump but his enemies are also
bad or his – the people who are -

CARNEY: Well, what I -

HAYES: - covering him and they`re screwing up and that gives him

CARNEY: Well, so, yes. I believe firmly in the media and I believe that
Donald Trump lies more than most politicians and that we are in that first
amendment because we are a crucial check on the power. And when you look
at the sort of behavior of the media, there - the sobriety has been lacking
in the coverage of Donald Trump. We had a Muslim woman detained, thanks to
the Trump travel ban, as the - as the Time Magazine headline, when she was
detained in December. The MLK bust removed when it wasn`t.

HAYES: Right.

CARNEY: The name of - you know, I could go on for the rest of the

HAYES: There - Right. But – OK. But the MLK bust I think is a great
example. Because the MLK bust has come up multiple times from the
President of the United States from Sean Spicer. That was a mistake, it
was - it was a mistake. I think, maybe in generally good faithful but a
mistake, it was corrected. And you`re right, it was wrong and it was - you
know, I can understand that if I were the subject of that error, I would be
mad. But they like having that mistake. And here`s the thing that I think
is happening. I wonder if you agree. I think they like the press screwing
up. I think they take steps to essentially lay land mines where other
administrations would essentially try to do hand hold. The executive order
is a great example. The Obama administration, whether the substance was
right or not, would have had essentially an on-the-record briefing, they
would have tried to communicate what they thought the legal case was for
it. They wouldn`t have dropped it and then - and let people run with it
and that does induce higher errors, but I think they want people to screw

CARNEY: I - I mean, you`re creating a conspiracy theory which I`m not
saying that`s wrong. Conspiracy theories are often right.

HAYES: No, no, no. I just -


CARNEY: But - what you - I`m going to -

HAYES: Why? I just think that they don`t want the press -

CARNEY: - remove the intention and it`s easier to mess up while covering
Trump because the administration is so much less careful. That is
absolutely true.

HAYES: Yes. Right. That`s my point, yes.

CARNEY: Which is another reason why more sobriety is called for. Jack
Shaffer had a great piece where he said, you know, “All these journalists
saying, `Oh we`re going to gird our loins, it`s time to fight against the
Trump administration`. How about its time sort of buckle down a little bit
more?” You know very well Chris, the serious work of journalism -

HAYES: Totally.

CARNEY: - is boring. It`s checking facts.

HAYES: And I totally agree that there is - there is a certain kind of -
there is - I mean, part of it, too, is plausibility, right? So, part of
what is screwing with the thermostat of journalists is that there are
certain kinds of things that an administration might do that would - that
would not scan as plausible, and you would say, well, they`re not going to
take the MLK bust out. You know, something like that. Right? And then,
it`s like - well - but then your plausibility - and you know this as a
journalist. Right? You got this kind of gut check sense.

CARNEY: Right.

HAYES: Like, does that story seem like it scans? And I think everyone`s
judgment of that has gone a bit haywire precisely because there are so many
things that shouldn`t scan that they are doing.

CARNEY: That`s right but it tells us as much about Trump as it does about
sort of the makeup of the media. That - and with Trump you`ve got two
factors, one he`s a Republican and that`s - that is a foreign species to
much of the media. You know that. That`s the newsroom in every - the
story in every newsroom.

HAYES: I disagree with that, but continue.

CARNEY: Two, Trump is just such an erratic character. He is so different
from every politician. His relationship with the truth is so much more
casual. He`s so much more likely to say untruths. So you combine those
two factors and it`s impossible for the average journalist I think, to sort
of say, “Oh, well, that`s not - that`s not plausible.”

HAYES: And also, the casualty of the truth also doesn`t care if he`s a –
caught in a lie. That moment when Peter Alexander; it was hilarious.
Because he just said, it`s not a huge deal that he said - that he was wrong
about this in a high stand.


HAYES: Lies one might tell. I mean, it was -

CARNEY: It was sort of, that Emoji where it`s like, “Hey, what the heck?”

HAYES: Yes. He just didn`t care.

CARNEY: I don`t know - I don`t know if that`s true.

HAYES: If someone gave it to me, I don`t care. The last thing here is, I
wonder if you agree with me on this, because I`ve watched through the way
the conservatives and republicans are sort of processing this Trump
administration. There`s a huge spectrum. One of the things I think is, he
really does feel like there`s a desire to replace Hillary Clinton with the
media. Hillary Clinton was not particularly trusted. He won a sort of
forced choice between him and her. She went away, the democrats are a
minority power in both Houses of Congress. There`s an active choice to
make the media the new Hillary Clinton.

CARNEY: Yes. You have to have an enemy. This is something all
politicians know. This is why in, you know, the 2010 election when
democrats had all of congress, they tried to make it be the Chamber of
Commerce or Charles Koch or something like that and they`re - and they`re
tuning in on the media. And I think the danger is that we are very
incapable of judging how that`s playing. We get very sensitive about the
attacks and I`ve seen lots of reports from my colleague like Salena Zito,
that a lot of people out there - I don`t know if it`s most of them, they
think Trump is beating us.

HAYES: There is -

CARNEY: They think Trump is running against the media.

HAYES: - 100 percent a certain - there is a certain proportion of the
electorate, I don`t know how large it is that enjoys it. And I think
actually the point that he made about how - you know, your trust is low,
that is a sort of undergirding statement of fact that sort of drives all
this. Tim Carney -

CARNEY: And he wants to make the trust lower.

HAYES: Well clearly. That`s the whole agenda. Tim Carney, thanks for
your time.

CARNEY: Thank you.

HAYES: All right. Coming up. Why were some members of the Congressional
Hispanic Caucus locked out of a meeting on Capitol Hill with officials from
ICE? That remarkable scene and what happened inside, next.


HAYES: On Capitol Hill today, members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus
were shut out of a meeting between a bipartisan group of lawmakers and
Immigration Officials including the acting director of ICE. The Chairwoman
of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus attended the meeting as well as
Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, but Congressman Luis Gutierrez and others
from the Congressional Hispanic Caucus who said they wanted to participate
because the stories they are hearing from Immigrant Communities right now
are terrifying were prevented from entering.


fighting for us, we`re very proud of Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic
Leadership. They`re in there fighting for us. We sent them in there.
Whip Hoyer and all of us sent them in there to fight for us.


HAYES: Inside that room, ICE officials briefed members on what one
Congressman described as a mass deportation plan, in which all 11 million
undocumented people in this country, are now subject to arrest and
deportation. We`ll tell you a story of just what that looks like on the
ground. It is a shocking one after this short break.

HAYES: A Democrat who was at today`s meeting with immigration officials,
Congressional Hispanic Caucus chairwoman Michelle Lujan Grisham told NBC
News that they were informed by ICE that President Trump`s immigration
executive order, that`s not the travel ban, it`s another one he signed,
opens all 11 million undocumented immigrants to arrest and deportation.

And congressman Joaquin Castro said after meeting - after attending the ICE
meeting, it`s hard not to conclude President Trump has started his mass
deportation plan. Castro said he thought about how to describe it.
Families are scared. But it must be called what it appears to be.

It`s already clear ICE has been doing things differently. There is the
story of a woman reportedly detained after her domestic abuse hearing in
El Paso, Texas, in the hallway outside the courthouse. She was the victim
at that hearing. And the count county attorney suspects it was her alleged
abuser who tipped off ICE agents.

Think about that for a moment. There`s a story of men being detained after
exiting the Rising
Hope Mission Church`s hypothermia shelter in Fairfax County, Virginia.
Oscar Orlando Ramirez said
the agents eventually allowed him to go free after verifying he was in the
country legally, others from that homeless shelter corroborated the story.
They say they saw multiple Latino men taken away in a van at a nearby
shopping center. It`s unclear if those men left the shelter.

And perhaps most controversially, a DACA recipient arrested. A young man,
brought to the
country without documentation as a minor, shielded from deportation, and
who twice cleared government background checks, immigration advocates
dispute the man was a gang member now as alleged by ICE.

Today, President Trump addressed the change in enforcement tactics.


TRUMP: Some people are so surprised that we`re having strong borders.
Well, that`s what I`ve been talking about for a year and a half, strong
borders. They`re so surprised. Oh, he having strong borders. Well,
that`s what I`ve been talking about to the press and everybody else.


HAYES: In cities across the country today, stores were shuttered,
protested mounted in a day
without immigrants coordinated action.

Joining me now, Cristina Jimenez, co-founder of executive director of
United We Dream.

And Christina, I wonder if you can talk about what kind of ripple effect
these stories anecdotally about these specific ICE detentions are having
amongst folks both documented and undocumented.

CRISTINA JIMENEZ, UNITED WE DREAM: Thanks, Chris, for having me. I mean,
this is clear terror in our communities. Chris, there were raids in
Brooklyn, New York, the borough right next
to mine. I grew up undocumented. My parents are undocumented. My
brother, Jonathan, is a DACA
recipient. That means that I fear that my family could be next, like
Guadalupe, who is a mother that has who has been here over 20 years with
children that were born here who was deported. Jeanette who had to seek
refuge in a church. And you have DACA recipients that even though the
program is still current, are also getting detained.

And so this is unfortunately the impact that the executive orders that
Trump signed in the first week as president that is basically criminalizing
all of us and putting all of us at the risk of deportation.

HAYES: What do you say to people who say you are here in violation of the
country`s immigration laws and this is an enforcement of that law?

JIMENEZ: What I say to people that think like that, Chris, is my parents
are my heroes. My parents and I came to this country over 16 years ago,
fleeing poverty and violence in Ecuador where I was born and all we have
done is worked here, raised our family here and try to fulfill dreams like
me being the first person going going to college. And that presents no
threat to this country. And that`s what I will tell to these people.

HAYES: You said your brother is a DACA recipient. Are you DACA eligible?

JIMENEZ: I am not. I`m not a DACA recipient.

HAYES: OK, so your brother is. And the president was asked specifically
about DACA. This is, of course, the executive action the president, former
President Obama took to essentially protect a category of people who has
been brought here as children from deportation. This is what the president
brought here today.


TRUMP: To me, it`s one of the most difficult subjects I have, because you
have these incredible kids, in many cases, not in all cases. In some of
the cases they`re having DACA and they`re gang members and they`re drug
dealers, too. But you have some absolutely incredible kids. I would say
mostly. They were brought here in such a way, it`s a very, very tough

We are going to deal with DACA with heart. I have to deal with a lot of
politicians, don`t forget, and I have and to convince them that what I`m
saying is right.


HAYES: Do you believe that? Was that encouraging to you?

JIMENEZ: No, Chris. If Trump, or anyone in his administration, including
General Kelly, who is leading the Department of Homeland Security now, if
they cared about young people, if they cared about people like my brother
Jonathan, who is DACA recipient, they wouldn`t be terrorizing us and they
wouldn`t be terrorizing our families and deporting in less than two weeks
over 600 people.

So no we don`t believe him. And it needs to be clear to them that if they
want to claim that there is some sort of, as he says heart, on this
situation and dealing with our communities is that, one, they
need to leave the DACA program in place and they need to stop terrorizing
our communities from deportation, which means get rid of the executive
orders that you signed the first week.

HAYES: All right, Cristina Jimenez, thanks for your time tonight.
Appreciate it.

JIMENEZ: Thank you.

HAYES: Still ahead, another setback from the Trump administration as the
grass-roots resistance continues to grow stronger. More on that ahead.
Plus, tonight`s Thing One, Thing Two. You know, it`s my favorite moment in
the show and it comes right after this break.


HAYES: Thing One tonight. Toward the end of President Trump`s press
conference today
he said, quote, “I want to find a friendly reporter.” Judging by the
president`s response, the question he
received next, one might think he was the victim of a severe verbal attack.


TRUMP: Let me just tell you something that I hate the charge. I find it
repulsive. I hate even the question.


HAYES: Can you guess what question President Trump was asked, which he
called repulsive. Here`s a hint. It`s related to last night`s Thing One,
Thing Two. And we`ll play you that question in 60 seconds.



TRUMP: Let me just tell you something that I hate the charge. I find it
repulsive. I hate even the question.


HAYES: A reporter asked a question at today`s presidential press
conference that Donald Trump called repulsive. Here is that question.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I haven`t seen anybody in my community accuse either
yourself or any of the - anyone on your staff of being anti-Semitic. We
understand that you have Jewish grandchildren, you are their grandfather.

TRUMP: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: However, what we are concerned about, and what we
haven`t heard being addressed, is an uptick in anti-Semitism and how the
government is planning to take care of it. There have been reports out
that 48 bomb threats have been made against Jewish centers all across the
country in the last couple of weeks.


HAYES: For the second day in a row, the president was asked about rising
anti-Semitism, that
report of threats being called into Jewish centers. As you heard, the
reporter began by saying members of his community do not view President
Trump or his staff as anti-Semitic, simply asked what government plans to
do about the uptick of anti-Semitism.


TRUMP: OK. Sit down, I understand the rest of your question.

So here`s the story, folks. Number one, I am the least anti-Semitic person
that you`ve ever seen in your entire life. Number two, racism, the least
racist person. In fact, we did very well relative to other people as a


TRUMP: Quiet, quiet. Quiet. See, he lied about – he was going to get up
and ask a straight simple question. So, you know, welcome to the world of
the media.

But let me just tell you something that I hate the charge. I find it
repulsive. I hate even the question because people that know me – and you
heard the prime minister, you heard Netanyahu yesterday, did you hear him,
Bibi? He said I`ve known Donald Trump for a long time and then he said
forget it.

So you should take that instead of having to get up and ask a very
insulting question like that.



HAYES: By this time eight years ago, 28 days into the Obama
administration, the president had already signed an equal pay law that has
been languishing in congress. He signed a major health care bill expanding
insurance to millions of low income kids. He was on the verge of signing a
$787 billion stimulus package to try and save the economy and the Senate
had confirmed 28 members of his team.

28 days into the Trump administration, the Senate has only confirmed 13
members of his
team. The president has signed only two significant pieces of legislation,
one repealed a law requiring oil companies to be transparent about payments
to foreign governments, the other signed today as coal miners looked on in
hard hats in the White House allows coal companies to dump debris in

There`s still no sign of the much-vaunted plan to repeal and replace
Obamacare, though today President Trump insisted it will happen next month
and defended his administration.


TRUMP: I turn on the tv, open the newspapers, and I see stories of chaos.
Chaos. Yet it is the exact opposite. This administration is running like
a fine-tuned machine. There has never been a presidency that`s done so
much in such a short period of time. There`s zero chaos. We are running -
- this is a fine-tuned machine.


HAYES: That is completely at odds with what certain Republicans in
congress are saying about this administration on the record, one of whom is
in full maverick mode. It`s worth sticking around to
hear that quote next.


HAYES: As the Flynn scandal unfolded this week, Senator John McCain told
reporters “it`s a
dysfunctional White House. Nobody knows who`s in charge and nobody knows
who`s setting policies.”

Then he added this.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: Who`s making the decisions in the White
House? Is it the 31-year-old? Is it Mr. Bannon? Is it the chairman of
the joint chiefs of staff? I don`t know.


HAYES: That sentiment was echoed by Republican congressman Charlie Dent on
our own air last night.


REP. CHARLIE DENT, (R) PENNSYLVANIA: I believe that the White House must
be much more clear in terms of its policy agenda. I feel if you`re a
president of the United States and if you want to deal with health care
reform or tax reform it`s an imperative that the president present a
proposal to congress in bill form. That`s the ideal way to do it. Then
congress will chop on it. That`s just - that`s a function of leadership.

So, I would - I certainly think that the White House does need to become
more engaged on the policy specifics or the proposals that they`re
advancing. That has not happened yet. And I hope it does happen soon.


HAYES: And because the White House isn`t taking the necessary steps to get
bills to congress, their legislative agenda at the moment is floundering
while the opposition is growing. Hundreds of people showing up to
Republican town halls to protest the repeal of the ACA, prompting other
Republicans to avoid them all together.

Vice News reporting that the first two months of the new congress, 292
Republicans have scheduled just 88 in-person town hall events, 35 of those
sessions are for Representative Jim Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin who does a
lot of them apparently.

According to a tabulation conducted by Legistorm, in the first two months
of the previous congress, 2015, by contract, Republicans held 222 in-person
town hall events.

Joining me now, Jim Manley, former chief spokesman for former Senate
Majority Leader Harry Reid, and former Republican congressman David Jolly
who represented Florida`s 13th district from
2014 until this year.

And I want to talk about the town halls. I want to talk about the
legislative agenda, but I want to start, Jim, with the latest news about
Harward. This is an individual who I`ve been talking to folks for the last
two days, widely admired, Obama people like him a lot, Republicans like him
a lot, highly respected, offered the job it appears to succeed Michael
Flynn and turned it down.

One reporting saying a friend said that he called it a “S sandwich.”
What`s your reaction to that, Jim?

my mother is going to get mad at me.

It`s just another example of the gang that can`t shoot straight. You know,
I am in a weird
position where I am desperately hoping that someone with good judgment and
character is actually going to take this job because what we`ve seen so far
is really, really scary and it`s only going to get worse.

HAYES: You know, the Obama people I was talking to yesterday were
desperately hoping he would take the job or encouraged by it.

David, let`s talk about political capital. In normal terms, the last week
would be seen as a disaster if this was another administration they would
be viewed as hemorrhaging political capital. There would be fear that
Republicans in congress starting to get nervous looking at both the sort of
disasters, the setbacks and also approval ratings.

But we`ve been here before. I`ve covered a Trump implosion half a dozen
times, a dozen times. What do you think the psychology a Republican member
of congress watching this right now is?

point. Today was historically bad not just for President Trump, but also
for the office of the presidency.

Look, it`s obvious to the nation the emperor has no clothes. Our boy
president has surrounded
himself by a team that tells him his coat is beautiful and he`s not wearing

But before the left takes vindication from that, before they take a victory
lap, let`s recognize as a country the heartbreak in this and what we saw
today, the anxiety that we might be faced with a president who today is not
up to the task of the office he ran for. And what do we do with that?

And I think what we do with that is, listen, for the last eight years
Republicans in congress have
suggested rightfully that the constitution says congress is a co-equal
branch. Well, just as we tried to assert our authority during an Obama
administration, now is the time for a Republican congress to
own the Article I authority of the congress, stand up and lead the country
and let the president find his footing as he will, but lead it from Capitol

HAYES: So, that`s an interesting idea

And it gets to this interplay, now, about what this domestic legislative
agenda is going to be, because we haven`t even had the big fights yet.
The big fights haven`t happen.

Here`s, I thought, Jim - and you are – you have battle scars to show for
all the time that you`ve spent in the majority, in the minority on Capitol
Hill with these fights. Here`s a Wahsington Post article about House
Speaker Ryan, to David`s point, meeting with the White House. “Early
January, House Speaker Ryan met on the issue of tax reform and the
delegation with president-elect, attending were future chief stategist
senior counselor Stephen Bannon, future chief of staff Reince Priebus,
future senior adviser Jared Kushner, future counselor Kellyanne Conway and
future senior policy adviser
Steven Miller, or as John McCain calls him, the 31-year-old. As the
meeting began, Ryan pointedly asked “who`s in charge?” Silence.”

How much does it matter that they do not have their ducks in a row in the
White House to
weather an agenda to get pushed through by the Republicans in congress?

MANLEY: It makes an enormous amount of difference. The fact of the matter
- if only because there`s differences not only within the House Republican
caucus on tax reform and Obamacare and there`s also differences between the
House and Senate Republicans.

So the fact of the matter is that both on tax care and Obamacare repeal,
that is, they`re floundering right now. and the only way they`re going to
get something done is with leadership from the president. And I seriously
doubt they`re going to get much of that, if anything, out of this guy in
the weeks and the months to come, if only because he`s so consumed by his
antipathy towards the press and he`s raging, jerking from one direction to
the other everyday and he can`t simply focus on trying to move a basic
legislative agenda.

It`s hard. It takes work. You need to spend the time trying to put
together coalitions necessary to get something out of the House and the
Senate. And he`s demonstrated a complete lack of ability to do that.

HAYES: To that end, David, there`s a problem right now when you scratch
the surface even about Obamacare repeal where you have got the House
Freedom Caucus saying we want something similar to 2015, which is a no-go
for a lot of so-called moderate members. There`s 20, 22 Republican
members in districts Hillary Clinton won. You have got to think they are
looking over their shoulder. They`re looking at the town halls. They`re
looking at their switch board. The mobilization happening
towards them is going to be making a difference in how they vote.

JOLLY: But I love the fact we`re talking about a congress and whether or
not they can pass
something, because listen, Donald Trump`s most sincere moments, personally,
are when he is lying. He cannot be trusted. So Paul Ryan has the ability
as Speaker of the House to push a Republican agenda.

Look, who knows what…

HAYES: But he can`t do it. He cannot do it with a…

JOLLY: Who knows what the Obamacare replacement will look like.

HAYES: Can he do it with the president of the United States not on board?

JOLLY: Put it on his desk.

You know what we used to say as Republicans in congress, pass our
legislation, put it on Obama`s desk and dare him to veto it.

This is a moment. Let President Trump figure out how to get his sea legs
underneath him. He`s not going to do it wit this current team. But that
doesn`t mean that we should have an ineffective congress to day. Congress
needs to do it`s job. Push a Republican agenda. That`s what the voters
asked for and congress is capable of doing that. Put it on the president`s

HAYES: You know what I think part of the problem with that is, David, to
Jim, I don`t know if the voters wanted that in this sense. Voters – I
don`t know if – no, I`m serious. I don`t think this election…

JOLLY: I`m with you, Chris, I got you.

HAYES: I don`t think this election was won on tax reform. Can we agree,
the three of us, that whatever happened in this election in terms of what
it ratified and what the electorate chose it`s not like the Paul Ryan
vision of America was what won this election.

Part of the problem that strikes me, Jim, is that Trump`s appeal doesn`t
even bear that much relationship to the kinds of things that Mitch
McConnell and Paul Ryan want to get done.

MANLEY: It bears no relationship, I guess, depending on the days,
sometimesit does, sometimes it doesn`t. Yeah, I mean, he`s an empty
vessel. And the speaker is desperately trying to carve out something for
him, throwing around his weight to try and advance an agenda. But he was
on - the speaker was on another network tonight saying that the Obamacare
repeal is on track to try and get done. I mean, that`s simply not true.

And the idea that tax reform is going to get done any time soon is
absolutely ridiculous. Again, given the divisions that are within the
Republicans, not only within the House Republican caucus but between the
House and the Senate as well. And there is no - there is no presidential

HAYES: David…

MANLEY: Sorry to interrupt. One more. I mean, the only thing, you and I
both have been looking at numbers that show how tight House and Senate
Republicans are holding towards the president right now. What`s going on
simply is they`re desperately afraid of getting on the wrong
side of a Trump tweet storm.

HAYES: And I think that`s going to continue until something else - town
halls, organizing, calls, polling in their own district, the mobilization
that we`re seeing taking place every day that is building, that - it`s
going to be a question, ultimately, for them of which they`re more afraid
of, which is what a lot of politics come down to.

Jim Manley, and David Jolly, thanks for your time tonight. Appreciate it.

All right, that is All In for this evening.