All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 09/02/15

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN -- DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So far, everybody that`s attacked has gone down. Let`s see what happens here. HAYES: The oppo dump on Donald Trump continues as Trump scolds Jeb Bush for speaking Spanish. TRUMP: Jeb Bush is a low energy person. HAYES: Tonight, the new attack on Trump over his relationship with Reverend Al Sharpton. Our guest, the Reverend Al Sharpton. Then, Democrats give peace a chance. The incredible victory for Obama on Iran as the pushback gets even more vicious. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every death that Iran causes is now on Barack Obama`s head. HAYES: And the conservative chorus over Black Lives Matter. SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Cops across this country are feeling the assault. HAYES: As news breaks in Baltimore, a reminder of why all this started. BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: Do you believe the Black Lives Matter crew and other radicals are igniting violence against cops? HAYES: ALL IN starts right now. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening. I`m Chris Hayes. A new level of desperation from the GOP today as it tries to stop the Donald Trump phenomenon. The Republican National Committee circulating a loyalty pledge to GOP presidential candidates obtained by "The New York Times" which asks the candidates to agree to not run as an independent if they do not win the nomination. The idea appears to be to try to put Trump in a difficult position. He would either have to join his fellow candidates and sign the pledge or risk officially being branded as disloyal to his own party. But here`s the thing, disloyalty to the Republican Party hasn`t been much of a problem for Donald Trump so far. Trump`s opponents and much of the conservative media have been shouting from the rafters that Trump is not a true conservative, and certainly not a good Republican. This is a guy they note that donated to Democrats, that called Hillary Clinton a terrific woman, that used to be pro-choice, that has called for huge tax increases, that likes single-payer health care, that even the conservative "National Review" reports is, gasp, buddies with Reverend Al Sharpton. I`ll talk to the rev about that supposed friendship in just a moment. The candidate who has been lately leading the charge on claims that Trump isn`t conservative is Jeb Bush, who released a video yesterday, spotlighting Trump`s past liberal comments, and today put out a "which candidate are you" quiz that ends with the partisan either being told that they should support, quote, "conservative reformer Jeb Bush or alternatively, back Trump", but only because they have, quote, "clear Democratic tendencies." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: His own words were that the single-payer idea is a great idea. Well, most conservatives find that to be perhaps the worst alternative. I mean, this is not a guy who is a conservative. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That was Bush yesterday in Miami where he alternated between speaking Spanish and English, and speaking to reporters. Trump pounced on that back today, telling Breitbart that Bush, quote, "should really set the example by speaking English while in the United States." That brings us to a pretty amazing new poll findings. Trump`s favorability rating among whites is now about even with 48 percent viewing him favorably and 49 percent unfavorably. But among nonwhites, Trump`s favorability rating is just 17 percent, his unfavorability, a whopping 79 percent. That`s an absolute nightmare for GOP trying to stay viable as a national party in presidential elections. But if Jeb Bush and his fellow Republicans think they can make Trump go away by questioning his conservative bona fides, it might be time to come one a new plan. As "The Huffington Post" notes, a new poll shows just how much Americans` policy opinions depend on the politician endorsing them, as opposed to their actual ideology. For the poll, Americans were asked about a variety of policy issues with one important caveat. Before they were asked their position, they were told a certain politician, say, President Obama, supported that decision. The results were fascinating. Considering universal health care, when Republicans were told President Obama supports universal health care, only 16 percent say they support it as well. When Republicans are told that Trump supports universal health care, suddenly 44 percent of Republicans do too. Among Democrats, this dynamic was reversed. The polling suggests that for many Americans, it is the politician and the party and their associations, not the position, that makes the difference. And that would seem to be especially true for Trump who`s appealed is almost entirely divorced from any notion of ideological consistency. Joining me now, MSNBC political analyst Michael Steele, former chairman of the Republican National Committee, as well as Republican strategist Liz Mair. Michael, this entire thing that I`ve seen conservative media and other candidates hammering on, just seems to me a false errand. Maybe I`m wrong. But the idea that you`re going to point out some heterodoxies or heresies -- MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. HAYES: -- or ways he violates the conservative code is going to put a dent in the phenomenon of Donald Trump seems really wrongheaded. Am I wrong? STEELE: Not really. I think it`s a little bit more nuanced in the sense that we`ll see whether or not what you just described holds up as more and more voters begin to settle into really watching and learning and looking each of these candidates, starting with the debate in a week or so out in California. But I think in large measure, you`re right. They`ve sort of liked the way Donald Trump has had to say. They like the way he`s saying it. And I think in terms of the orthodoxy, for many folks, that may or may not have been part of the problem, is that this guy is going beyond that. That it`s not boiling down to some litmus test ideology, but he is prepared to go out and fight for the same things that they arguably want to see someone fight for. HAYES: Which is making America great again and it says it on his hat. STEELE: Yes. HAYES: As one participated said. Well, Liz, let me ask you this. When you think about orthodoxy, when you think about what is the consensus of the Republican Party, which, we should be clear, has a pretty robust consensus on a whole variety of issues, from repealing Obamacare to opposing the Iran deal. My sense is that a lot of that comes from the donor class as opposed to the base. And that`s part of what`s being exploited here. LIZ MAIR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think there`s not as much consistency in the Republican Party as perhaps it looks on the outside of it. I do think when you`re talking about within conservatism, there is a greater degree of consistency. And, clearly, Donald Trump is out of step with a lot of conservative policy stances, right? I think going back to the point about the Jeb Bush video and the attacks, I think that there is one in there that particularly is likely to stick. If you go and you look at that, Bloomberg, Purple Strategies focus group that was done of Trump favorable voters up in New Hampshire, you see that they don`t care about him donating to Democrats, they don`t care about him saying nice things about Hillary Clinton. They don`t care about him flip-flopping on things like abortion. What they do care about, though, they do not like the single-payer thing. They do not like the socialized medicine thing. So, you know, if I had been advising the Bush team on that video, I would have said hit that point harder, drop a lot of the rest of it, because while I think there are a lot of people who consider themselves loyal Republicans who don`t necessarily like those aspects about Trump, that`s not necessarily that the Trump voters themselves care about. HAYES: That`s -- MAIR: They don`t like the single-payer and they don`t like the socialized medicine support. HAYES: That`s an interesting point. It also brings up the point about in terms of the flip-flops, Michael, which is that, you know, there is a model for how to go about, essentially getting rid of your old ideological baggage. And that model is in the last Republican nominee who successfully ran through a primary field, which is Mitt Romney who had all sorts of thing hung around his neck, including support for an Obamacare style health care program in his home state that had his name that he was successfully at least in the primary able to distance himself from or flip- flop on or change directions enough that he escaped unscathed. STEELE: Well, not exactly. I think a lot of folks, when you look back at what Trump is doing, the difference is Romney didn`t own it. Trump is owning it. In fact, in many cases, he is doubling down on it. HAYES: Right. STEELE: So for a lot of the activists who are now calling themselves Trumpers or Trumpites, and jumping on that bandwagon, they like that. They like that consistency, that authenticity that says, I`m going to be honest with you. And I`m not going to flip-flop and change, you know, or run away from a state of perspective or point of view. Now, again, as this thing settles down with a lot of the voters who are actually going to be voting, in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, in the month of February, that may change a little bit, the dynamic of how Trump actually runs his campaign. HAYES: Liz, there`s a meeting tomorrow apparently with Trump and Reince Priebus in New York City. There is this pledge that`s being circulated, according to the report from "The New York Times". The problem with that strikes me with Republican Party is at the same time, they don`t want to alienate him. They don`t want to keep this bargaining chip that he`s going to run as an independent. But you saw those favorables/unfavorables among nonwhite voters. To the degree they keep him close, they also, it seems, incur a little bit of that political damage. MAIR: I mean, theoretically, that`s possible. I don`t really know how all of this is going to play out. It`s very hard to tell. Obviously, there are people who are primarily in the donor class who are very concerned about this. And have obviously been making their views known to the RNC, and I imagine that that`s where this is coming from. I also imagine that the reason that this is being covered from "The New York Times," and conservative media is that the RNC may not want to overly flag with whatever they`re doing with Trump with regard to people who can potentially be a little more interested in him. But, yes, I don`t know -- I mean, we don`t have a blue print for knowing how the party or how the conservative movement deals with a candidate like Trump. So, a lot of this is gong to be trial and error and throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. And we just will. HAYES: Well, he has a reputation for being a tough negotiator. Michael Steele and Liz Mair, thank you both. The conservative "National Review" yesterday posted what was meant to be a bombshell, a story laying out Donald Trump and Al Sharpton`s alleged, unlikely friendship, which claims Trump was one of the top donors to Sharpton`s National Youth Movement. Sharpton says he`s never received financial support from Trump though the two did have a personal relationship. And who better to tell us what that relationship was than the man himself, Reverend Al Sharpton, host of MSNBC`s "POLITICS NATION", founder and president of the National Action Network. You and Donald Trump, best of buds? AL SHARPTON, HOST, POLITICS NATION: Yes, right. To me, the story and all of the, he was close to Hillary and all that, it shows a desperate attempt for them to really deal with something that they can`t deal. With I met Donald Trump first because I marched on him around the Central Park jogger case in the 1990, 1991. And then later when Don King and Mike Tyson decided to do fights in the casinos, I would see him. And we got to talk like the casino owners in Las Vegas, if you go to a fight. And I think that he came to one or two of our functions of National Action Network as built, because he was friends with Don King and he wanted James Brown to perform. There was no relationship. I don`t even know that he wrote a check for the (INAUDIBLE) that I`ve done, that they have the picture. But I think what is really the bombshell here is how desperate they are. I mean, Dr. Ben Carson spoke at National Action Network Convention this year. I mean, this -- the day after Bernie Sanders and O`Malley spoke. So, are they going on use that picture? George Bush had me in the White House several times when he was president. Are they going to use that? So I think they really underestimate the intelligence of their own voters. But having said that, I`m no defender at Donald Trump at all. I`ve attacked from day one as you know everything he`s come out with to the point where he called me once and we sat out. I`m no racist. I said but this birther thing that you`re running is certainly racial in terms of what I see and in terms of what a lot of people see. Then he goes on, Sharpton apologized for calling him a racist. One, I never apologized. Second, I never called him a racist. But that`s Trump. HAYES: Let me say this -- this is -- but, that`s, see, the thing I find fascinating, because I grew up in New York City. I lived in the Bronx in the `80s. You know, when I was growing up, when I would go to the bus, to wait for the bus. There`s "The Daily News" and "The New York Post", and my whole childhood, it was you, Donald Trump, Leona Helmsley. SHARPTON: That`s right. HAYES: And you came up in a media environment that Donald Trump came up in, which is a very unforgiving one, where you learn a set of tools that I feel like you are watching Donald Trump apply in a way that the national media is not ready for. SHARPTON: And I watch him because I`ve seen him do that. In New York, you tend to have larger than life figures. You`re in a larger than life city. So, you competing with Times Square, Broadway, all of that. You have to do things, which my activism had to develop differently than a lot of others in civil rights because I`m competing in a city where you have to get attention on your issue. HAYES: You know what it is like to be in a crowded field. SHARPTON: A crowded field with lights that are going off in every direction. And I`m trying to say, but wait a minute. Look at the unemployment. Look at the education. Look at police brutality for a long time. Trump was doing this about his brand. I always saw him as a businessman. A guy doing business because he wanted the boxing matches in Atlantic City as opposed to Las Vegas. To be buddies, if he was a buddy of mine, I missed the friendship. I`ve gone to dinner, Bill O`Reilly tells a famous story, he went to service with me, and was surprised people weren`t break dancing. Are we buddies? And he attacks me almost as much as he clear his throat. HAYES: Well, here`s the thing. I mean, you can do -- you can do a lot of people in the Republican establishment a favor. Could you end the campaign right now in our program with a full throat endorsement of Donald Trump for president? If you want to do it, I`m opening this hour -- SHARPTON: I will wait for him to win the nomination, once he`s the nominee, then I will embrace him. And talk about how he not only was my buddy but he helped strategize all the things we did over the last 20 years around these things. I promise you that I know when not to drop the bomb. The bomb will not drop until he`s the nominee. But we`re dealing in a political absurdity. HAYES: You hold the power in your hand. Reverend, it`s always good to see you. SHARPTON: Thank you. HAYES: I`m looking forward to Sunday mornings. SHARPTON: Oh, yes. HAYES: Coming up, I`ll talk to the Rand Paul and Carly Fiorina campaigns about their strategies for avoiding a Trump eclipse. Plus, a major win for Obama as the Iran deal reaches its 34th vote. The fight is not over yet. I`ll explain ahead. And later, a look at the ongoing Black Lives Matter backlash, with yet another Republican presidential candidate linking President Obama and violence against police officers. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, you didn`t think you would get away with this interview without me asking you point-blank, are you going to run for president? SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I`m not running and I`m not going to run. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: One of the fixed, constants since the early days of the 2016 cycle has been Elizabeth Warren`s insistence that she is not running for president. Lo and behold, she is not. The question has been asked and answered over and over, and each time she said no. Not running, not going to run and that definite and explicit no she`s given in the past makes what she said today so tantalizing. Today, during a live stream interview with the Josh Miller of "The Boston Globe," the subject turned to a lunch that Senator Warren had with the vice president a few weeks ago, with a rumor Biden run in the works, Miller asked Warren if talk of a join ticket was discussed. Warren`s answer was less than definitive and explicit. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSH MILLER, THE BOSTON GLOBE: Talk with the vice president of a joint ticket even jokingly? WARREN: It was not -- it was a long conversation. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: And that answer could cause many more long conversations. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Whether they like it or not and they don`t, Republican presidential candidates other than Donald Trump have a major hurdle to overcome, how to break out of the pack. So far, those candidates have been largely unsuccessful. A couple of arguable exceptions, Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina with rising poll numbers and a certain outsider status to rival that of the billionaire real estate mogul. They`ve performed fairly well in polling since the first Republican debate. Others like Senator Rand Paul who initially showed such promise as an atypical Republican have simply gotten not much traction. Just yesterday, one of those Trump challengers got some good by changing the rules governing admittance to the next debate on September, CNN paved the way fro Carly Fiorina to join other top tier candidates, including Mr. Trump. Joining me now, Sarah Isgur Flores, deputy campaign manager of Carly for president. So, are -- is your candidate going to be an advocate for all those she`s left behind at the so-called kids table in the other debate, now that she`s made it up and out? SARAH ISGUR FLORES, CARLY FOR PRESIDENT: Carly is solidly in the top ten in every poll in the last month. She`s number three in New Hampshire. Number three in Iowa. She earned her spot on the main debate stage and we`re very pleased, thankful that CNN and the RNC wanted a fair debate process. HAYES: Isn`t fair though? I mean, this whole thing seems like so ad hoc and fluid. And I understand why you guys are argued for. But like what is the reason for not just letting everyone on the stage? FLORES: I mean, that to some extent is up to the RNC and CNN. I think our point was that CNN`s process didn`t make a lot of sense anymore. What they were doing was taking a whole bunch of polls from July and then only three polls from August. So, it`s heavily weighted to the July polling. So, I think this is a more fair way to break it up. HAYES: The president as you know is in Alaska, the first president to visit above the Arctic today. And I wanted to ask you about his Fiorina`s views on climate change, particularly as the president puts a spotlight on this. I`ll play you a little sound from Carly Fiorina on the issue. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All those scientists who tell us that this -- that global warming is real, that it`s manmade, also tell us that it will take three decades, trillions of dollars and a coordinated global effort. What do you suppose the chances of that happening are? Do you suppose China is ready to sign up for that? Suppose Brazil is ready to sign up? Suppose Europe is ready? None of them are prepared to sign up and, by the way, no one is willing to spend the trillions and trillions of dollars. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That strikes me as a remarkable thing for a Republican, a believer in American exceptionalism to say, that there is this huge pressing challenge, a really big thing that the world has to come together in. And it is not going to happen. So what? So what do we do? FLORES: I think her point is that liberals have been willing to sacrifice jobs, people`s livelihoods on the name of ideology rather than actually explaining to people what it would take to make a difference. Liberals don`t explain that. All they do is destroy a lot of jobs in order to say they`re doing something. HAYES: What jobs destroyed? Solar is one of the fastest employers on all of America right now. You want to tell all those people installing rooftops solar, their jobs are being sacrificed. FLORES: I would recommend Carly`s book to you where she talks about all the jobs in Mendota, California, in particular. This is a state that has 100 or so billionaires and the highest poverty rates in the nation. And some of that is largely due to these environmental policies. It is what has led to this drought being so bad. And yes, it has caused massive destruction in some of these communities in the Central Valley. HAYES: I`m sorry, that`s not making a lot of sense. The drought has been exacerbated as every scientist will say by global climate change. FLORES: The drought has been exacerbated because liberals in California haven`t been willing to build a reservoir in 30 years. If they were willing to capture some of the rain water in years where there was more rain water, then the drought wouldn`t be as bad on years when there is drought, which is fairly common in California actually. HAYES: This is -- this drought is not common, though, you would admit, right? These are the five driest years since they`ve been keeping track since 1860. FLORES: California has droughts fairly frequently and for 30 years -- HAYES: But historic droughts? FLORES: -- they haven`t been storing the rain water. HAYES: Five worst years. I`m not making that up. That`s not like some invention of the evil liberals. It is literally the five driest years in the history of California. Those are the facts on the table. And Carly Fiorina is from California. FLORES: I hear you. But do you also hear me that they haven`t built any reservoirs or ability to keep rain water in some of those other years? And that may contribute to how bad this drought has been for the Central Valley? HAYES: They`ve done tremendous amounts of water conservation, there`s tons of drip irrigation. Let me ask you this, though -- FLORES: They`re not willing to build a reservoir because of the delta smelt, a fish about -- HAYES: Wait, Sarah -- FLORES: And that is now devastating people`s jobs. HAYES: They have not closed the ponds for the delta smelt during the last year, first of all. Second of all, go back to your original idea. Here`s Carly Fiorina, smart, capable, CEO, believes in America`s leader and she says there is this problem and I`m just going to say, no one else will sign up for it, I`m going to walk away. Is that the way she`s going to lead America? FLORES: That`s not what she said. HAYES: That is what she said. (CROSSTALK) FLORES: She said that innovation is the answer to this. Not destroying jobs. Not telling people that a law in California will somehow fix global warming when it won`t. One nation acting alone will not fix this problem. HAYES: You guys -- you guys have a much lower percentage of electricity usage of any state in the nation and your GDP has been booming since then. It shows it can be done. Sarah Isgur, it is fun to talk to you. Come on back and bring Carly Fiorina. FLORES: Thank you. HAYES: Senator and presidential candidate Rand Paul meanwhile got a moderate batch of press when his campaign released an app to encourage support interaction. Unfortunately, the app`s feature that lets you post a selfie with Paul`s image has resulted in things like Paul with a toilet and Paul with a prone performer. The senator did try to take on Trump in that first debate, and since then as well. But as of yet, not to great effect. Earlier I spoke with Rand Paul`s campaign manager Chip Englander and asked him why Paul has not managed to differentiate himself as many expected he would so far in this campaign. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHIP ENGLANDER, CAMPAIGN MANAGER, RAND PAUL FOR PRESIDENT: Well, everywhere the senator goes, we`re getting huge crowds. In New Hampshire today, last week out west as he talks about, we have a country that is run by lobbyists for special interests, and career politicians in both parties let it happen. So, we`re getting big crowds. You know, the polls move up and down. It`s extraordinarily fluid race. If you look four years ago, the person who`s leading in August was Michele Bachmann, in September, it was Rick Perry, then it was Herman Cain, then it was Newt Gingrich. Those poor folks didn`t even finish in the top two in Nevada, New Hampshire, or Iowa. So, it`s a fluid race. HAYES: Part of the problem when you talk about special interests, I remember when Rand launched, it was to defeat Washington machine. There`s another candidate talking about special interests in the personal of Donald Trump who has this whole very compelling shtick where he talks about how he himself was a donor. He used to spread money around and ask for favors, and that I think is -- has been working with folks. Do you feel like he`s crowded out some of your message? ENGLANDER: Well, I think it`s great because you touch on, that he actually demonstrates the hunger that`s out there, that we do need to defeat Washington machine. And the reality is who is up right now, and him being up in the summer or whatever, I mean, it`s just -- it`s never indicate who is actually going on win this. HAYES: But, Chip, can I ask you this? Here`s part of the problem with defeat the Washington machine message it appears to me, is that it is being given by a senator, a man who is the son of a congressman who served many terms, ran for president. He worked on the guy`s campaign. I mean, this is not some guy who just came out of nowhere. This is Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. ENGLANDER: Well, did he come out of nowhere. I mean, he`s only been in the Senate for a few years. He was an eye doctor for nearly 20 years in Bowling Green, Kentucky. HAYES: And the son of a congressman. ENGLANDER: Well, congressman, who everyone associates that is totally independent of the special interests, who ran against it. Those are the folks coming out against all the events. I don`t think anybody associates him as part of machine. Everyone understands that he is someone who has fought it. This country has nearly intractable problems that we need a transformational figure, that`s the space that he will fill in this race. HAYES: That independence you talked about with respect to his father Rand Paul. I mean, the place where he was most independent. It was on foreign policy. Remember those debates four years ago where he would say things that would inaugurate a cascade of boos from the crowd and condemnation from the people up on the rostrum. He supports the Iran deal. Rand Paul, your candidate, has come out against the Iran deal. And coming out against the Iran deal has put him with no space to differentiate on what is arguably the most consequential foreign policy decision facing the country. Do you think that hurts him? ENGLANDER: Well, actually, I mean, the senator has disagreed with folks in his own party on military interventions all around the world. In Libya, Syria, Egypt, he has been again intervention. Now, on the Iran deal, he did support negotiations. But just because you support negotiations doesn`t mean you automatically have to support the final product. He believes that the current deal, it removes all the sanctions immediately. He believes it should be slowly over time. You know, Ronald Reagan also said, trust but verify. And we need to make sure nobody is cheating on the deal. HAYES: The perception is that this is partly driven by politics, right, that essentially, you can`t survive, either in the fundraising race or the Republican primary if you support what is looking like signature foreign policy achievement of President Obama. I mean, how much is this just a political calculations? ENGLANDER: None of it is a political congratulations. He has studied the deal intently. He has read the deal. He has followed all these different policies. And he always said what is on his mine. Whether it`s the filibuster on the NSA spying issue, whether it`s on the drone strikes, whether it was opposing his own party on various military interventions on, opposing the war in Iraq, all these different things. He`s always stood on principle. HAYES: All right. Chip Englander, thank you very much. Tell the doctor to come by the show any time. ENGLANDER: Absolutely. Thanks, Chris, for having me. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Still to come, President Obama`s trip to Alaska where the salmon got a little too friendly. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is spectacular, can you guys see those icebergs there? So, periodically the icebergs will break off from the glaciers. And each of those icebergs are about the size of a Costco. This is an example of what we need to be thinking about. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: President Obama is seeing the effects of climate change first hand in Alaska, visiting the Kenai Fjords National Park to examine melting glaciers by sea and by land and warning the pace of climate change cannot be underestimated. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: This glacier has lost about a mile and a half over the last couple hundred years. But the pace of the reductions of the glacier are accelerating rapidly each and every year. And this is as good of a sign post of what we`re dealing with when it comes to climate change as just about anything. We want to make sure our grand kids can see this. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The president also visited an isolated fishing village got a little more than he bargained for when he was handed a live salmon. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: Something got on my shoes. He was spawning a little bit, which generally you don`t want fish spawning on your feet. He said he was happy to see me. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: A month and a half since the U.S. and five world powers signed an historic nuclear deal with Iran. The deal secured its 34th supporter in the Senate today, Maryland Senator Barbara Mikulski, and that gives it enough backing to sustain a presidential veto if congress should vote to disapprove it later this month. Now the Iran deal maybe the biggest foreign policy breakthrough this country has achieved in decades. But until now, the odds were overwhelmingly stacked against it. The campaign against the deal began even before negotiators had an outline. With Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu`s speech before congress in March, at the invitation of House Republicans, and with Senator Tom Cotton`s letter to the ayatollah`s a few weeks later, signed by 46 of his senate colleagues. It continued through the summer, after the deal was announced in July, with tens of tens of millions spent on lobbying, apocalyptic ads all over the airways, including our own, and over the top rhetoric about the Obama administration becoming the world`s leading financer of terrorism and leading Israelis to the oven door. All that failed. And today the deal passed implementation is all but assured. The fight, however, is not yet over. Ten Senate Democrats remain undecided and all indications suggests the White House wants to win enough support to avoid a veto altogether. The new magic number, 41 votes. At the same time the Republicans are stepping up their opposition to the deal with former Vice President Dick Cheney delivering a speech about it next Tuesday, just in time for lawmakers` return from August recess and Donald Trump and Ted Cruz holding a stop the Iran deal rally on Capitol Hill the next day. And as fellow presidential candidate Chris Christie demonstrated today, the rhetoric about President Obama is showing no signs of cooling down. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRIS CHRISITE, GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: He believes it is his legacy. And guess what, I too. I believe it`s going to be his legacy too. And I believe the American people are going to look back on this and say this was the single worst thing this president has ever done. And every death that Iran causes is now on Barack Obama`s head. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Joining me now, Senator Sherrod Brown Democrat from Ohio, an early supporter of the Iran deal. Senator, I want to ask about the psychology of your senate colleagues in the Democratic caucus who have not made up their mind. And we run down the stretch there, what do you think it does to their decision making process to see Chris Christie saying stuff like that and Ted Cruz rallying on the Capitol Hill with Donald Trump and Dick Cheney making a speech. Is that persuasive for them? SEN. SHERROD BROWN, (D) OHIO: Well, it may be the opposite. I think you go back to how wrong this same crowd was on the Iraq war, more than a decade ago. Those people who pushed this war, pushed the Iraq war, seem to be the most negative about the Iran nuclear deal. I think that`s part of it. I think when my colleagues see Ted Cruzes, Glenn Becks, Dick Cheneyes of the world shouting at rallies, writing op-eds that are just factually wrong in the Wall Street Journal, I think all of that contributes to a number of Democrats thinking, maybe this is not where we want to go. And I think the persuasive powers of the president, one-on-one. This wasn`t LBJ arm twisting, this was the president of the United States and a Secretary of State very cogently making very solid, I think, sober-minded arguments about why there isn`t a good choice here. The other side, the opponents never answered the question adequately. What happens if the U.S. walks away, especially if you talk to as many of us did, to the five ambassadors from Russia, China, and our closer friends, England, France and Germany who say we can`t get Iran back to the table to make concessions. We`ve squeezed them, we`ve done this right, this will keep nuclear weapons out of their hands for years and years, instead of right now, Iran is pretty much a nuclear threshold state. They`re not that far from a nuclear weapon now. This pulls back in a way that works for safety for a much better Middle East and keeps the nuclear weapons out of the hands of the Iranians. HAYES: You know, you mentioned something interesting about -- you said this was an LBJ arm twisting by the president. And it strikes me. You know, in the past few months, the president has had two big heavily contested battles with congress. One on TPP and one on the Iran deal. Now, you were on different sides of those two. But you`ve, the president has this reputation of being standoffish or being ineffective working with congress. And I feel like the record shows the opposite. This White House really does seem to get what it wants in the end. BROWN: Well, I would mostly agree with that. I think with the Trans Pacific Partnership, the fact that the president of the United States, the Republican leadership and virtually all of corporate America were on one side is a pretty powerful bloc, conversations in persuasiveness or lack of persuasiveness notwithstanding. So, I don`t quite see that. But I do agree that the president, it is not LBJ arm twisting. Really, I`ve watched him in small meetings on this on this issue. I`ve watched him speaking to a group of larger group of senators. And I`ve seen he is persuasive. I mean, people -- Democrats, and I think most of the public, I won`t talk about Republican members of the House and Senate, but Democrats in the House and Senate and most of the public, respect Barack Obama`s political acumen. They respect his intellect, they respect his powers of persuasion and they think he is an honorable, decent man. You put all that together on something as complicate and important for the future of our world, our planet, not just the Middle East, but the planet. And I think you have a pretty good formula for getting the great majority of Democrats on board. The Republicans were all gone. That letter from Tom Cotton was about as despicable as anything I`ve ever seen to write for 46 Republican members of the Senate. To write a letter to the Iranian leaders, to the ayatollah, for all intents and purposes saying don`t negotiate with our elected president, was about as -- I won`t use an adjective, I`ll let people use their imagination there. But about as bad as it gets. So, I think all of this -- and the Republicans were so partisan on this. And Democrats, one at a time -- I`ve watched many of my colleagues and friends -- one at a time think about this, listen to people, read the intelligence reports, listen to the CIA, listen to the secretary of state, listen to ambassadors of countries that are allies and those like Russia and China that are only our allies on one issue, perhaps, or a small number of issues. And that really tells me how serious my colleagues were about this and how serious the president was and is, and that`s why we`re going to win on this ultimately. HAYES: Senator, that was one of the most honest articulations of how this process works I`ve ever heard. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. BROWN: Thanks for saying that. Always, Chris. HAYES: Still to come, the ongoing effort to blame Black Lives Matter. Scott Walker and Nikki Haley join the list of politicians who say the protesters are the problem. That discussion is ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: An incredibly disturbing series of images, one of which we are about to show you, are galvanizing a call to action on the citizens of Europe. And the photos show the body of a 3-year-old child, a refugee from Syria, washed up on a beach in Turkey. The boy, along with his 5-year-old brother, one of dozens who died when their boats capsized, desperately trying to reach Europe. The horrifying image spurring new calls for European leaders to take action as Europe faces its biggest refugee crisis since World War II. Hundreds of thousands of people from Syria, from Iraq, from Afghanistan, from Libya, Eritrea and Nigeria, are fleeing war and poverty. And European countries are struggling to respond. Right now, more than 2,000 migrants and refugees who are trying to get to Germany are trapped at a Hungarian train station, thanks to asylum rules. Germany is preparing to take 800,000 refugees, is urging other countries to do their part. In Iceland, over 11,000 people are offering to open their homes to refugees. In U.S., the exceptional nation, the indispensable nation, has only taken in 1,000 Syrian refugees so far and will take another 8,000 next year. That is 100 times less than the number of refugees that Germany, a country a fraction the size of the U.S., will take in this year. You know, any time war is on the table you hear a great number of prominent political and media voices in America arguing that if you actually care about the people of the Middle East, you must support military action. But if those lives truly matter to us, as they should, there is something very straightforward we can do that doesn`t involve dropping a single bomb or sending a single troop, we can take in tens, even hundreds of thousands into this large wealthy country and every single person running for president right now should be forced to answer why we shouldn`t. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Big news today out of Baltimore and the case against the six police officers charged in the death of Freddie Gray, the 25 year old African American man who died this past spring after sustaining injuries in police custody. As protesters and police gathered outside the courthouse, the judge ruled this afternoon the six officers will receive six separate trials. Additionally, the same judge ruled the city state`s attorney Marilyn Mosby did not have to recuse herself from the case. Freddie Gray died last April in the hospital after sustaining a severe spinal injury while in police custody. Videos showed Gray being stopped by several officers and dragged into a police van. His death ignited days of protest and unrest throughout Baltimore, which culminated in Mosby announcing a range of charges against six Baltimore police officers less than two weeks after Gray died. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE`S ATTORNEY: I`ve heard your calls for no justice, no peace. However your peace is sincerely need as I work to deliver justice on behalf of Freddie Gray. To the youth of the city, I will seek justice on your behalf. This is a moment, this is your moment. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: The charges against the officers range from second-degree murder to second-degree assault. All six officers have since pled not guilty to all charges. Many of the protests that are widely viewed as contributing to the swift action by city prosecutors were organized under the banner of Black Lives Matter. In the month`s since Freddie Gray died, that movement has gained strength across the country opening it and the larger criminal justice reform movement up to criticism. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NIKKI HALEY, GOVERNOR OF SOUTH CAROLINA: Black lives do matter and they have been disgracefully jeopardized by the movement that has laid waste to Ferguson and Baltimore. SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: I do think we`re seeing the manifestation of the rhetoric and vilification of law enforcement of the police that is coming from the top, that`s coming from the president of the United States. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Today Scott Walker wrote that in the last six years under President Obama, we`ve seen a rise in anti-police rhetoric, this inflammatory and disgusting rhetoric has real consequences for the safety of officers who put their lives on the line for us. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Efforts to link the Black Lives Matter movement to recent police deaths have also found a home on Fox News. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: Every time there is a controversy about an officer shooting a black person, they`re out there stirring the pot. You don`t feel that disturbed individuals watch this and then act out? PETER MOSKOS, FRM. BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: There are fewer cops shot this year than last year. Are you willing to give Black Lives Matter credit for that? Cop shootings are down. O`REILLY: I know they`re down slightly. MOSKOS: Oh about 17 percent. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Peter Moskos, the former Baltimore police officer who joined Bill O`Reilly in that clip, he`s going to be here next. (COMMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Joining me now, frequent guest on the program, Peter Moskos, former Baltimore police officer, associate professor John Jay College of Criminal Justice. There is an urge to connect the protest movements that are happening with two things, I think: killings of police officers and also, the fact that in a number of major American cities, we have seen a rise in the murder rates, particularly true in Baltimore, St. Louis, Milwaukee more than the others. What is right? What is wrong about that? MOSKOS: I think linking Black Lives Matter to the killing of police officers is a disservice to both cops and Black Lives Matter, primarily because shootings of cops this year is down and somewhat significantly. I don`t think it has anything to do with Black Lives Matter, I think over -- it was a bad week, by the way, for cops but it`s been a good year. HAYES: It was a bad week and one other thing that struck me is, we`ve got this ongoing manhunt in Illinois and that story came on the tail of the shooting down Houston. The strain in Illinois, which is a horrible story, incredibly tragic, seems much more like the kind of thing can happen to a police officer in the line of duty, approaches suspects, there was some sort of altercation, there wasn`t -- from all we know, not some kind of ambush of someone who is in the police... MOSKOS: No, I don`t think Black Lives Matter has a strong foothold in Fox Lake, Illinois, to put it mildly. HAYES: Particularly among two white suspects. MOSKOS: But where I do think Black Lives matters is creating some harm is in places like Baltimore. It is making police tougher. I this -- I mean, part of it, look, you can call it a movement for police reform or you can call it an ant-police movement or some combination thereof, but the movement is not just about black lives, it is about state power and it`s about policing. And I think many of the recommendations are wrong and dangerous. They want a lot of -- it is hard to speak entirely collectively, but they want the end of broken windows which has helped bring crime down and save black lives. They want less policing. HAYES: But this is -- see this is the thing, right. So, first of all, I think the data on broken windows is not particularly definitive, I think it`s fair to say. MOSKOS: It`s getting more and more definitive. HAYES: Partly depends on how you define it and partly depends on what your data set is. MOSKOS: I`m defining it in the proper way, of course. But I`m talking about quality of life issues, I`m not talking about zero tolerance policing. HAYES: But that gets to this key accountability issue and this key metric that I think is at the core of this, right. We saw America go through this period in which we created the largest prison population ever in the history of developed democracies. MOSKOS: Ever in history, period. We have more prisoners than China and they have a billion more people than us. It`s horrible. HAYES: And then what we saw was a movement towards incrementally some kind of bipartisan criminal justice reform, some ideas of how can we do better? You`re someone who has written on this, right. And now we see the kind of politics that created that prison system in the beginning, which is the backlash politics we`re seeing now, which says, see what happens, these people start yelling and crime comes roaring back. See what happens? You let people go out on the streets in protest or you don`t enforce quality of life and it all comes back and disorder is a broken window away. MOSKOS: There is a... HAYES: That`s what`s happening. MOSKOS: Yes. And look some of it, of course, is absurd, some of it is hype. But there is no reason crime couldn`t go up in the future. The murder rate in Baltimore doubled, more than doubled overnight on April 27 on the night of the riots, because policing changed. The job became a lot tougher. HAYES: But here`s the other thing that strikes me. If you want to talk about how this movement is affecting policing, it strikes me that it`s also probably affecting the way police do their jobs to be told there`s a war on police. I mean, that scares me, to think about someone telling their charges, you`re going out there like the policeman benevolent association U.S. said we`re on war footing now after the horrible murder of those two cops, right. That`s also... MOSKOS: But some of that is business as usual in the police world. HAYES: but that`s terrifying. MOSKOS: It might be, but it`s not new. HAYES: But that`s the point. But that`s the point. If you`re telling people you`re going into a war zone, that seems to me in deep profound tension with our democratic commitments for a democratic police force. MOSKOS: Yeah, so here`s what we have to do. First of all, we have to not believe the hype on all sides, from the extreme right or the extreme left. We have to start telling cops what we want them to do. It is too easy to say what we don`t want them to do. And there`s a lot of that right now. And some of it is fair. Look, we don`t cops to kill unthreatening people, that`s a fair thing to say. We don`t want cops to be racist. That`s fine. But the job has a lot of gray and we have got to tell cops what we want them to do. And we have to engage people in improved community relations through engagement, not the retrenchment. HAYES: The more -- telling cops what we want them to do is a really good place to end this conversation. Peter Moskos, thanks for being here. MOSKOS: It`s always a pleasure/ HAYES: That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening, Rachel. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END