All In with Chris Hayes, Transcript 01/23/15

CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN -- (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seventy five percent of the Hispanics in this country they want more government, more taxes, more government services. HAYES: The unofficial start to the Republican primary season is here and the whole world is watching. We`ll go live to Iowa where Republicans and immigration activists are set to collide. Then the ball-ghazi plot thickens. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Tom Brady a cheater? TOM BRADY, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: I don`t believe so. HAYES: New reporting suggests someone was up to no good on the Patriots sideline. Plus, the death of the Saudi king, tonight the complicated legacy of an American ally and an authoritarian ruler. And just what exactly is wrong with kids these days. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just seemed beneath the office to be hanging with some of these YouTubers. HAYES: The dignity and strategy of talking to YouTubers. BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: You know something I don`t? HAYES: ALL IN starts right now. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. Tomorrow it begins. The unofficial kickoff of the Iowa caucuses, the nation`s first presidential nominating contest is taking place Saturday in Des Moines, Iowa. That is the kick off to it. It`s the Iowa Freedom Summit. A sold out gathering of about 1,200 conservative activists where almost all of GOP`s undeclared 2016 candidates are scheduled to speak, everyone from Ted Cruz to Chris Christie, from Rick Perry to Rick Santorum. The event is co-hosted by conservative non-profit Citizens United. Yes, that Citizens United, whose Supreme Court case ushered in an area of unlimited political spending and by Iowa Congressman Steve King, one of the most far right members of the House Republican caucus. A man who just three days ago referred to an immigrant activist seated in Michelle Obama`s box in the State of the Union as a quote, "deportable." Tweeting quote, "Obama perverts prosecutorial discretion by inviting a deportable to sit in a place of honor, the State of the Union with the first lady, I should sit with Alito." That is just the latest in a series of outlandish comments about immigration and immigrants themselves that King has become known for. Among his greatest hits, a town hall meeting in 2012, where he compared the immigration process to dog breeding. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: You go in and look at a little of pups and you watch how they play and run around. You want a good bird dog and the one that will be aggressive. Pick the one that is most engaged and not the one sitting in the corner. You get the pick of the litter. It is hard to get here. They had to be inspired to come. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Also, in 2013 "News Max" interview, when he asserted that most dreamers, immigrants, who came to the U.S. as children, are drug smugglers. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KING: They aren`t all valedictorians. They were not all brought in by their parents. For every one who is a valedictorian, there is another hundred out there that they weigh 130 pounds and they are hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Because of that history, a number of immigration activists and political opponents are also converging on Des Moines tomorrow, along with Univision and Fusion, two Latino centric networks planning to cover the summit. A group of Iowans who support immigration reform already took out an ad in the "Des Moines Register" to get the attention of presidential candidates coming to town. DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz is scheduled to hold a press conference across the street from the venue tomorrow calling on Iowa Republicans to denounce King`s views on immigration. A group of dreamers and other advocates are holding a series of events intended to disrupt the summit and challenge the candidates. One of those activists, dreamer, Erica Aviola, has confronted Steve King before over his opposition to DACA or Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m actually a dreamer, I`m originally from Mexico but I have been raised here, I graduated from Arizona State. Arizona is the university. I know you want to get rid of DACA. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That was Rand Paul you saw literally running away from the table. He will not be attending tomorrow. Two years ago you could have written Steve King off a fringe figure in the Republican Party. After the 2012 election after all, there was broad consensus the party had to do more to attract Latino voters. And for a while, it looked like comprehensive immigration reform might actually get done in Congress. Since then there has been a major reversal that few could have predicted. Now Steve King more or less speaks for the GOP on immigration and it`s not just rhetoric. In 2013, House Republicans voted overwhelmingly for a King-sponsored amendment that would have put hundreds of thousands of dreamers at risk of deportation. The House just passed a bill to defund the president`s most recent executive orders on immigration, which will protect millions of people from deportation. If you need any more proof of Steve King`s stature in the Republican Party, look no further than his current role as kingmaker for the Iowa caucuses. I just spoke with MSNBC political reporter, Benjy Sarlin, who got a chance to talk to the congressman earlier this week, and I asked him what King had to say for himself. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BENJY SARLIN, MSNBC POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Steve King told me that he is very excited to get a chance to see all of these potential candidates up front. He notes that a lot of the promises people make about their issue positions, their party platforms this early in the campaign are things that follow them all the way through the general election. And that is good for someone like Steve King who has a very clear idea of what he wants to hear from candidates on issues like immigration. There is also an amount of personal vindication for him. He told me that he keeps a list of all the Republicans over the years who have personally criticized him, usually over immigration, and as he put it to me, their agenda has been marginalized, mine has been strengthened. HAYES: That is a remarkable thing to say. I mean, this is Steve King in some ways taking a victory lap in a two-year battle against certain forces in the party that wanted to see it moderate and compromise on immigration. He represents the hard line faction. I mean, it sounds like what you`re saying to me is he recognizes this event happening tomorrow is the official victory for the Steve King immigration wing of the Republican Party. SARLIN: Right. And the way he puts it to me, of course, is that, look, I didn`t do anything. It`s the conservative activists. I`m nearly the messenger, you know, that who is killing immigration reform, but there is no doubt that Steve King has really made his name as the most aggressive, most vocal immigration hard liner in the House. At this point, that there is just no denying that he is running the show when it comes to the immigration agenda there. Three times he`s managed to get immigration through the House, at least, over the last two years targeting dreamers. And yet immigration reformers have had no success at all getting a single piece of legislation to the floor nor do they look likely to succeed in getting any this year. HAYES: Benjy Sarlin doing some great reporting out in Iowa, thank you. SARLIN: Thank you. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: I`m joined now by Erika Andiola. She was in that video confronting Steve King. She is co-director of Dream Action Coalition. Erika, you`re in Des Moines. What -- why are you there? What do you hope to accomplish there? ERIKA ANDIOLA, CO-DIRECTOR, DREAM ACTION COALITION: Yes, I mean, we are here. I think for us the most important part of being here is that we know that there is going to be a couple of candidates that will come join Steve King. One of the most outspoken anti-immigrant members of Congress that we have right now, who has been continuously trying to defund deferred action and trying to undo what the president announced and what he announced in 2012. So you know, we`re here to just make sure that we hear from those folks, who came down that are trying to run in 2016 as a presidential candidate and to see why they would follow the steps of Steve King. I think it is important that they understand that following his steps are not going to help them at all with the Latino community in the long run. HAYES: Let me ask you, this is personal for you. You came here when you were 11. My understanding is you were covered under the first DACA order from the president in 2012. You`re on the line here, right? In some foreseeable future when Republicans take power, they`re on the record wanting to deport you, personally, literally you and hundreds of thousands and millions of others like you. ANDIOLA: That`s correct. And I think for us, that`s why it is so important to make sure that we have the right person and someone who really understands the issues of the immigrant community here in the U.S. to be ready for 2016. I think for us we saw that, you know, Mitt Romney in 2012 he adopted a rhetoric of deport them all were or self-deportation, vetoing the Dream Act. He really came up with a lot of that rhetoric that at the end of the day didn`t help them with the Latino vote. I think -- I don`t know if they have learned from that. I don`t know if the GOP have really learned that lesson, and we`re here to tell them that they should learn that lesson and hoping that those who made it here to Iowa understand that. And those who didn`t make it here to Iowa perhaps, you know, Rubio perhaps, Jeb Bush, that they also know that even though they are not here, we are hoping that they stay away from Steve King`s rhetoric and we`re really hoping to get the Latino community to support him in 2016. HAYES: Do you and other activists see people showing up at this event as essentially attach an endorsement of Steve King`s policies and a rhetoric on immigration? ANDIOLA: I mean, we do, the fact is that in a couple of months ago we saw that Senator Rand Paul, who potentially is also someone that could run in 2016, when we went up to Steve King, he left. He completely left. Not necessary knowing what to tell us and I think for us, they have that courage to face us and tell us they think we should be deported. Then it is fine, but they don`t, they don`t have the courage. They just show up with Steve King to different events, and we have a strong message, stay away from people like Steve King who really have nothing good to offer to the undocumented community and to the GOP overall. HAYES: You make a good point. If they believe it is a policy to deport people like you and hundreds of thousands others, millions other, then they should be able to tell you that to your face. If they think that is the right policy, they want to see that, that`s best for America, humanity, and the country then they should say it. They should stand up proudly and they should say it. They should say they are a party of deportation right now and that`s not what they`re doing. Thank you, Erika Andiola. I really appreciate it. ANDIOLA: Thank you for having me. HAYES: On the eve of the big even tomorrow in Iowa, everyone is trying to read the tea leaves about who is and who is not attending. And among the presumed 2016 candidates, there are three especially notable absences, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, and Mitt Romney. And Rubio is on the record of having a very different stance on immigration than Steve King. He was among the champions of comprehensive immigration reform in the Senate in the past, though, he had since distanced himself quite a bit from the effort. Jeb Bush, whose wife is originally from Mexico, has long been pushing Republicans to take a more compassionate stance on immigration while Mitt Romney considering a third run for president may be trying to bounce back from his push for, quote, "self-deportation" the last time around. Now all three, I think it`s fair to say are vying for the so-called establishment slot in the 2016 field, they are competing for a set business-minded donors who by and large support immigration reform or some form of it, and who understand the people like Steve King are not helping with the GOP`s long-term demographic challenges. But there is some you would think would fall into that category who is actually attending the Iowa Freedom Summit tomorrow and turning a lot of heads in the process. That someone is New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who is often mentioned in the same breathe as some of those other establishment candidates. The donor class sees Christie as a moderate with crossover appeal, who won twice in a blue state with the majority of Hispanic vote, and who even signed a version of the Dream Act into law in New Jersey. But since Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney decided they might throw their hats in the ring, the competition over donors in the invisible primary has gotten a lot fiercer and as a result, Chris Christie I think is essentially doing this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: Recalculating. Continue 7 miles then turn right on to I-40 east. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Chris Christie is recalculating what he thinks will be his new route to the White House is taking him straight through Iowa. Joining me now is Steve Kornacki, host of "UP" here in MSNBC, our resident expert on all things New Jersey and politics more broadly. So I think he -- that area that he was going to occupy has just gotten a lot more crowded, right? And those guys are big ponchos. I mean, they got lots of donor networks. They`ve got huge networks that even Chris Christie doesn`t have. Where is -- how do you read his attendance in Iowa? STEVE KORNACKI, MSNBC HOST, "UP WITH STEVE KORNACKI": So there is a long history here, a back story to the Christie-Steve King relationship and what it goes back to is this. In 2009, when Chris Christie was running for governor of New Jersey, the Democrats in New Jersey teamed up with some Democratic congressmen from New Jersey to have congressional hearings over Chris Christie, as U.S. attorney and contracts given out to John Ashcroft, who was then working privately. John Ashcroft had been the attorney general. At those hearing, Christie put on his show. He left and stormed out during the questioning from Democrats. Well during that whole soap opera, he formed a bond, an unlikely bond with Steve King. So when I read this as, this is sort of the ultimate test of what is Chris Christie`s strategy to get the Republican nomination. You can go down the line and find a number of issues where Chris Christie is sort of at odds or has a history that`s at odds with the Republican base reads, well, I will never nominate this guy. What the Chris Christie people believe and I think what Christie himself believes is that the power of his personality is so strong and so compelling to Republicans like Steve King, who would normally call him in rhino, they will start working backwards and excusing it. So what they are looking for here -- they don`t think they can be the candidate of Steve King. They don`t think -- I don`t think they`re going a Steve King endorsement. What they are going for is that Steve King will not condemn Chris Christie. HAYES: So what they want to be maybe, in the slotting that is happening with figuring that are very popular and competition for big money donor in this primary is being the person who occupies that establishment space most palatable to the base because Chris Christie has put in the work of building these relationships with these kinds of validators among the base. KORNACKI: He does not want the base to be saying that is the traitor that is the guy we have to stop, stop Christie. He just wants the base saying, yes, sure, we like Rand Paul. We want Ted Cruz, but you know what, if they don`t win, this guy is OK. HAYES: There is something about, I mean, I said today when we were talking about this, I said I think as a political performance, as a political talent of Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, Chris Christie, and Marco Rubio, that Chris Christie is the most talented. I mean, I think he -- he is a massively depth and talented politician as a politician, that`s not a moral or substantive judgment on how he is very good at it. KORNACKI: I was covering New Jersey back when he was the U.S. attorney, and he was a very political U.S. attorney looking to run for office someday and I would attend speeches he would give around the state. Speeches where he was just talking to students, to college groups, things like that. It was amazing. He would walk into the room. This is New Jersey, the Bush era, where college students were very hostile to Republicans. They wouldn`t like him because they know he is a Republican and he just wash the room, warm up minute after minute after minute, and by the end they`re laughing, they are cheering. They like him. HAYES: Now here`s the thing, the downside though is to do that kind of thing, you have to show up at these events and the problem that he and everyone else showing up at Steve King`s event is the fusion, and the whole Spanish language press covers these things in detail, everybody knows who Steve King is. Everyone is going to associate with you, and you with him when you show up to King`s -- KORNACKI: So in the challenge there, I think what they see it as it doesn`t say any of the stuff that Steve King says. Don`t be next to him when he says anything like that. Don`t be cornered in an awkward moment. It could be very tough for them, but that`s the game I think you`re playing. HAYES: You can always just do the Rand Paul eject button and literally run. Steve Kornacki, thank you. We`ll be back in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Here is how the "New York Times" eulogized Saudi Arabian King Abdullah in part today, quote, "Abdullah became in some ways a force of moderation. He had hundreds of militants arrested and some beheaded, sort of an odd sentence. The surprising tenor of the mainstream media`s coverage of his death, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Today, Saudi Arabia buried King Abdullah in an unmarked grave as is customary that following a modest funeral in accordance to the traditions of the Saudi royal family`s Muslim faith. Meanwhile outside Saudi Arabia King Abdullah`s death prompted some interesting reaction. It`s perhaps no surprise that King Abdullah would receive official praise from U.S. officials given the decade`s long relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia revolving around Saudi oil production. Not to mention our strategic military cooperation with Saudi Arabia on various fronts, both past and present including but certainly not limited to a CIA drone base. Vice President Joe Biden will be traveling in the coming days to Saudi Arabia as part of an official visit, and Secretary of State John Kerry tweeted, quote, "King Abdullah was a man of wisdom and vision. U.S. has lost a friend in Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Middle East and the world has lost a revered leader." Now all that`s not surprising, what is surprising is the tenor of the coverage of a man, who whatever the rest of his record has a leader was, in the words of Trevor Tim, an unelected dictator who publicly whips dissidents and beheads people for sorcery. As noted by "The Intercept," there was the "Washington Post," Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, a willy king who embraced limited reform. The "New York Times," King Abdullah, a shrewd force who reshaped Saudi Arabia. Some media outlets have actually cited human rights watch of the truth of the matter. "The Guardian," quote, "King Abdullah`s reign brought about marginal advances for women, but failed to secure the fundamental rights of Saudi citizens to free expression, association and assembly. The group that said that since 2011, the regime has grown even harsher as it has attempted to stifle online criticism through intimidation, arrests, prosecutions, and lengthy prison sentences." And that wasn`t just happening within the boundaries of his kingdom under King Abdullah, he also sent Saudi tanks into neighboring Bahrain to help that country`s Sunni monarchy crush the Shi`a majority`s Arab spring uprising in 2011. Joining me now NBC News foreign correspondent, Ayman Mohyeldin. So I mean, I understand. There are strategic reasons the U.S. basically says, you know, we have to work with the Saudis. We have a relationship with them, but in the broad context, the Middle East, I mean, Saudi Arabia isn`t necessarily a particularly pernicious action, but it`s not some particularly enlightened place in terms of its government structure, right? That`s fair to say? AYMAN MOHYELDIN, NBC NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: That is beyond fair to say, it is a very accurate statement. HAYES: I`m bending over backwards to be fair. MOHYELDIN: I think the way they look at it is not to compare Saudi Arabia with enlightened states, but to compare Saudi Arabia to where it was when he took the helm of that country. I think people are trying to walk this fine line between what is the official. He was a man of vision. He was a reformer. He took the country incrementally forward and then the people who are looking at it, like, there are certain values that should be applied today. They don`t need to be marginally and incrementally moving forward. HAYES: Right. But not beheading someone for sorcery, for instance. MOHYELDIN: Well, absolutely. Listen, but again, you know, in terms of the principal, this country here executes people, for whatever crimes. So the issue of capital punishment is separate. How you carry out that capital punishment is always up for debate. And that is the problem is that Saudi Arabia perhaps still carries out a very primitive and what we would consider inhumane and cruel punishment. HAYES: I guess, my point is more than and I think you could take it too far because I think -- there is a lot of people on the left I think would delight in pointing out Saudi Arabia`s bad human rights record because I think it exposes some hypocrisies of American foreign policy about who we say we ally with. But all of the politics in that region frankly are real politic, right, I mean -- from the American perspective, it is judgments about what will bring about stability and best help the U.S. in the region. MOHYELDIN: Listen, you said it perfectly. This is a close ally of the United States. They have a CIA drone base there. In the past they have thousands of U.S. soldiers there. HAYES: They used to have bases there. In fact, that`s what Osama Bin Laden was so upset about. MOHYELDIN: Not only that, but in addition to that, Saudi Arabia is a massive supplier of oil for global energy markets that`s extremely important. I can give you a long list of examples of why Saudi Arabia matters to the U.S. and to regional. HAYES: Right. King Abdullah`s role in the Arab spring, he is seen as someone who very much opposed it. I mean, he -- MOHYELDIN: There are no two questions about it. On the issue of Arab spring and reform, this was an individual, who very opposed -- HAYES: Sent tanks into Bahrain. He supported the military government in Egypt. He`s seen as a huge backer of the current military before he passed away obviously. This is the role he plays. MOHYELDIN: He played that role. He very much expressed that role. He put all of his country`s resources to back that role. So in the case of Egypt, you know, billions of dollars to help the Egyptian government to prop it up -- HAYES: He said at some point where there is a question of the U.S. re- upping its military aids. He just came out more or less his people said, "We`ll just match the dollars if U.S. walks away." MOHYELDIN: And here`s the irony although he opposed that kind of reform, that kind of political Islam reform if you are in the Muslim Brotherhood, he was also a big supporter of the revolution in Syria to topple President Bashar al-Assad. That also has to do more with politics. It`s not necessarily about reforming the country, but he knew that Assad is a close ally of Iran, who is seen as a huge regional rival. HAYES: Absolutely. Ayman Mohyeldin, fascinating, thank you. All right, McDonald`s supersized problems and everyone is weighing in on the deflation gate scandal including apparently "Sesame Street." (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PUPPET: What`s the word on the street? UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Inflate. PUPPET: What does the word inflate mean? UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: It`s when you fill something with air? PUPPET: What kind of things do you inflate? UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: A balloon. UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Bubbles. PUPPET: Bubble. You can inflate a bubble. (END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: We have always come to think of the McDonald`s franchise as a permanent feature of the American landscape like the Hoover Dam or the Interstate highway system, the Grand Canyon. We just assume they will always be there. But after a slew of really bad news for the company, it seems possible that the fastfood giant`s power is not as durable as it once seemed. McDonald`s right now is frankly in trouble. Announcing today a 21 percent drop in global profit in the last quarter, which has been blamed on everything from food scandals in Asia part of which we reported on. And problems with suppliers in China and Japan, and also low consumer confidence in Europe and growing competition here right here in its home the U.S., this as profits arising for these slightly up market so-called fat casual chains like Chipotle and Starbucks. McDonald`s attempts to appeal to customers who seem to be looking for healthier, pricier options appear to have backfired. As TIME`s Brad Tuttle puts it, quote, "the costs of expanding menus and adding personalization options so that Mcdonald`s and its ilk can better compete with Chipotle or Starbucks have hurt profits, confused consumers and angered franchise owners." The company then threw something of a Hail Mary pass this month debuting the new ad that seems to be, as they say, maybe if we tug at America`s heart strings they`ll stop rejecting our food. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (MUSIC) (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: It goes on like that, but there was no small amount of criticism levied at Mickie D`s for invoking tragedies like 9/11 and the Boston Marathon to fundamentally sell hamburgers. And on top of that, there is the constantly percolating truth in the background that the means by which billions of hamburgers are served can get pretty gnarly. Ten former McDonald`s employees from three locations in Virginia are suing the company in federal court for discrimination. They complaint alleges supervisors at these stores, quote, demeaned African- American workers, often complained that there are too many black people in the store, called African-American workers bitch, ghetto, and ratchet, called Hispanic workers Dirty Mexican, disciplined African-American employees for rule infractions that were forgiven when committed by white employees. Inappropriately touched female employees on their legs and buttocks, sent female employees sexual pictures and solicited sexual relations from female employees. The Mcdonald`s corporate office has said this week it hasn`t seen the lawsuit and cannot comment on the allegations, but that discrimination is completely inconsistent with the company`s values. And for decades, McDonald`s has pursued a very profitable business strategy of cheap food, cheap labor, massive control of supply chains and high volume. In between workers mobilizing for more power in the fight for 15 and better wages, customers seeking out higher quality food and better sourcing practices, maybe all of that, all of it, is finally coming to an end. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right, the NFL today released a statement saying that the evidence it has collected thus far suggests that the footballs used by the New England Patriots in their half of their playoff game Sunday were indeed under inflated. The league is still trying to get to the bottom of who or what is responsible for the scandal that has dominating the nation conversation this week, attracting the attention of everyone from the vice president of the U.S. to, it appears, the folks at Sesame Street, which reran an episode featuring as the word of the day, that`s right, inflate. NFL statement written in the overwhelmingly self-serious tone we`ve gome to expect from the National Football League, said nearly 40 interviews have been conducted as part of its ongoing investigation, which is being aided by a, quote, investigatory firm with sophisticated forensic expertise. It also stated the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated. The second half, as my Patriot`s super fan executive producer insists I remind you is when the Pats blew the game wide open, outscoring the Indianapolis Colts 28-0. Though here is where I step back in, lord knows what the helk else the Pats were doing during that half we haven`t heard about yet? Patriots owner Robert Kraft also put out a statement today saying his team will continue to cooperate through the league`s investigation. Meanwhile, the reviews have been coming in for Patriot`s quarterback Tom Brady`s press conference yesterday in which Brady stiltedly, awkwardly denied any wrongdoing. Those interviews have been stellar. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: For years it has been clear that is no risk that I was going to take Tom Brady`s job as quarterback of the New England Patriots. But I can tell you that as of today it`s pretty clear that there`s no risk of him taking my job either. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: That is a pretty good line. A number of former NFL players has said they believe that Brady is lying, including former Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Mark Brunell who frankly seems pretty shaken up about the whole thing. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARK BRUNELL, FRM. NFL QUARTERBACK: Those balls were deflated. Somebody had to do it. And I don`t believe there is an equipment manager in the NFL that would on his own initiative deflate a ball without the starting quarterback`s approval. I just -- I just didn`t believe what Tom Brady had to say. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: Brady does, at least, have the man behind Fox News in his corner, though. Late today, Rupert Murdoch tweeted the following, "ridiculous charges against Patriots. A great team by any standards with good, tough leadership. Big winners always attract naysayers." Like Rupert Murdoch himself. Joining me now Mike Pesca, NPR contributor and host of the Slate`s "The Gist" podcast. All right, should we start with -- there`s two things here. There`s the who done it, which I am curious about. And then there`s the ridiculousness of the entire phenomenon of the conversations. So let`s start with the first order of thing, which is the who done it. Someone -- like it`s pretty clear to me someone did something intentionally, right. MIKE PESCA, HOST, THE GIST: Yes. HAYES: That something was done intentionally to game the system. PESCA: I would say that 11 balls don`t get deflated on their own when the other team`s... HAYES: After being tested, they`re put into a locker room (inaudible) 10 minutes before the game, according to what we know from the league. PESCA: According to the sources, sure. But this is like doing very heavy forensic analysis of why I change lanes without signaling. I mean, this is really a misdemeanor I do think. I know other people will jump on it and say it goes -- I mean, Mark Brunell was taking that really hard. I was... HAYES: I wanted to give him a little pat on the shoulder. PESCA: Or hug or something. The presidential spokesman, a U.S. Senator, people, high people, are weighing in on this. Is the International Criminal Court going to weigh in on the hidden ball trick? HAYES: Well, we`re not a member, so probably not. PESCA: OK. So we have... (CROSSTALK) PESCA: We have no perspective on this. But if you want... HAYES; On the spectrum, this is more towards gamesmanship than outright cheating. PESCA: I do think so. I think -- and if most, not -- you didn`t hear Brunell say it, but so many NFL players talk about I put silicon on my jersey, or you know, after stick em was banned, I stuck it between my cleats. People do this all the time. Is that so much different from just trying to sell a call during a game? Hey, I wasn`t holding. It is like very close on the continuum. HAYES: I disagree slightly. And here is why. One, this involves like conspiracy, right. So there`s some other person who is being pulled into this, right. You want to put stuff on your jersey, put stuff on your jersey. That`s between you and your jersey and the law if you get caught. Here, you got the equipment managers involved, a. B, the other thought I had, given the context of spygate, is that when I saw Brady yesterday, my thought as I was watching him wasn`t necessarily he`s lying about this, it was like their up to all sorts of shenanigans. And this guy has got the deer in the headlights looks, because he`s like I really hope no one pulls on the thread of what the Patriots pre-game ritual is. That was my thought. PESCA: But why wouldn`t that be useful to them? Why wouldn`t that get into the minds of their opponents? Like, everyone who ever doctor a baseball, sometimes they`re not even doctoring the baseball but you think they are and you overswing. I do think that we say spygate and everything else the Patriots are up to. By letter of the law, there hasn`t been much else besides spygate. You`re -- people are going to go crazy on me. I don`t even think spygate was that big of a deal actually. If you go back, every coach... HAYES: Who got to you, Pesca? PESCA: That`s right, every -- Murdoch. Every coach admits that they look at the game film that is provided by the league and they try to watch the other team on the sidelines. What the Patriots did was actually put someoe there... HAYES: To tape them. PESCA: To tape them. And I think this was all before iPhones, so taping someone seemed really weird. Anyway. HAYES: So, here is the question, do people -- and this goes -- it`s hilarious how polarized this is among our staff between Pats fans and not Pats fans. Is this story as big as it is because people hate the Patriots? Because like they`re just so a good villain and... PESCA: Yeah. It`s not the only thing, but if this were the Atlanta Falcons, if this were the Cincinnati Bengals -- there are two teams in sports -- maybe the Cowboys. I think the Yankees and the Patriots are the one that affect you on a gut level. They affect the reptilian part of your brain. It has an emotional component. Plus, the puns with balls and headlines. It`s exactly like... HAYES: Oh, there are puns involved? PESCA: There were a couple puns going on. HAYES: Those have slightly flown over my head. PESCA: The wiener scandal. There`s a big parallel to the wiener scandal. HAYES: That`s true. PESCA: We all loved... HAYES: We love the wiener scandal because of all of the headlines and we loved all the work that Wiener on television could do for us without having to say wiener. PESCA: We get credit for being a little naughty. HAYES: Mike Pesca of the fantastic podcast, which is called The Gist that you must, must check out. President Obama did an interview with this woman yesterday, this woman, there, yes, the one seen here eating cereal out of a bathtub, which is one of the things she`s famous for, or that`s what the kids tell me. I`m not judging, by the way. I think that`s actually pretty compelling. Is it undignified or really smart strategy for the president to be interviewed by YouTube stars? Plus, why won`t the kids get off my lawn? We`ll talk about that ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Get this, on a Wednesday, the anniversary of the Citizen`s United ruling, this happened. You can feel all of the nervous energy in a room that is not accustomed to that kind of thing. After that joke by Chief Justice John Roberts, more protesters rose one by one to interrupt the normally calm and informal court. In the end, eight protesters were taken into custody and charged, including the person who recorded that video. Protesters group 99 Rise, which calls itself a movement to reclaim democracy from the domination of big money. I`ve spent a lot of time in the court, and have come to revere its customs in many ways, but progress often comes from disruption. And I can imagine the court will be seeing a lot more of this in the future. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: Yesterday the president of the United States did an interview on YouTube. You may have heard of it by now. GloZell Green, Bethany Mota and Hank Green, three lucky YouTube personalities, got about 40 minutes combined with the president. And you may be asking yourself who are these people? Well, as some in the media pointed out, GloZell Green, who has over 3 million subscribers on YouTube once ate cereal out of a bathtub. She also once tried to complete the so-called connamon challenge, swallowing a spoonful of cinnamon in under a minute without drinking water. That`s runny. Bethany Mota, a 19-year-old young woman is known for her makeup tips and DIY party advice. She has 4.3 million followers on Instagram, almost a million more than Vogue. Hank Green, half of the blog brothers channel, has used his channel to raise over a million dollars for charity last year. To call these three people YouTube personalities doesn`t quite do them justice, they are media stars in every sense of the word. They have big audiences. And their questions to the president were, for the most part, thoughtful. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HANK GREEN, YOUTUBE CELEBRITY: I watched the State of the Union, a lot of interesting ideas there, I`m not the only person who said this, a worried that none of them are at all politically feasible. Am I wrong? GLOZELL GREENE, YOUTUBE CELEBRITY: How can we bridge the gap between black African-American males and white cops? BETHANY MOTA, YOUTUBE CELEBRITY: Why should the younger generation be interested in politics? And why should it matter to them? (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: and yet the YouTube interviewing, which touched on college affordability, North Korea and marijuana policy predictably occasioned a lot of hemming and hawing from certain corners of the media. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIIFED MAEL: Well, look, GloZell is a star. She is funny. She`d probably have her own Netflix show by next week. But when did eating milk and cereal out of your bathtub become an audition to interview the president of the United States. Now Megan, I`m not some old media curmudgeon saying, you know, Obama shouldn`t go on Ellen or The View or Colbert. He`s got a good sense of humor. That`s a political asset. But there`s -- it just seemed beneath the dignity of the office to be hanging out with some of these YouTubers. (END VIDEO CLIP) HAYES: But -- and this might shock you -- this is not the first time Fox News has thought the president was doing something beneath the dignity of the office. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: This has now become the dirtiest campaign I`ve seen in my lifetime, just beneath the dignity of the office, Carl. This is beneath the dignity of the office. Beneath the dignity of the office. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t you think that diminishes the office of the president a little bit, talking about condoms. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This pandering to the entertainment elites diminishes the office. KARL ROVE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Yeah, let`s invite a misogynist to the White House, this will set a good tone for the country. HANNITY: He is diminishing the office. BILL O`REILLY, FOX NEWS: The interview was a farce and some believe it was demeaning. ZACH GALIFIANAKIS, ACTOR: What is it like to be the last black president? OBAMA: Seriously? O`REILLY: Abe Lincoln would not have done it. CHIP SALTSMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: This was below the office of the president of the United States. CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: I don`t think this diminishes the office, it diminishes the man who is now holding the office. (END VIDEOTAPE) HAYES: There is a reason the president has done things that Fox News has considered beneath the dignity of the office. The reason why he appeared on Funny or Die series Between Two Ferns with Zach Galafianakis, the reason why he gave an interview after the State of the Union address to three YouTube sensations, two of which I`m not ashamed to admit I had not heard of until yesterday, it`s because people in this country are watching different stuff on different platforms, particularly young people. And I want to introduce you to a young man whose power on digital media may shock you as much as it did me. There`s amazing video evidence of that. I`ll show that to you next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HAYES: All right, meet Jerome Jarre. He has 8 million followers on Vine, over a million friends on SnapChat, according to The New Yorker. Last year he ran an experiment with a friend what would happen if he just asked his one million SnapChat followers to meet him in Union Square. Within 16 minutes of the message being sent, 16, it had been viewed 142,000 times, according to the video, and then this is what happened when Jerome made his way to Union Square, a group of what looked like hundreds of teenagers, boys and girls, who trekked to downtown Manhattan just because their digital media superstar asked them to. Joining me now to look at the rapidly changing media landscape Bridget Carey, senior editor at CNet; Teddy Goff, founding partner at Precision Strategies. He led Obama`s digital strategy team in 2012. So, I`ll start with you about this. I mean, this seems to be just smart, right? This choice to bring in YouTube folks is dealing with the reality of the fact that audiences are balkanized. There`s million of people who are not going to watch the State of the Union on the big networks, who don`t even have televisions or don`t even think of like turning on a TV to watch a live event. And this is a way to get to them. TEDDY GOFF, PRECISION STRATEGIES: Well, yeah. First of all, you put the national conversation in the hands of the so-called respected journalists and what you get is two week paroxysm about a disease that one person had that`s less dangerous than the flu. So, I don`t that these people are really earned the right to, you know, to have single-handed control over the national converation. HAYES: Well, we didn`t eat cereal out of a bathtub. GOFF: Well, not on camera. You know, I think that`s probably the only difference there. You know, I think what you`re saying is exactly right. Obviously, especially young people, but increasingly old people are unfortunately watching TV a little bit less as you may know, and they`re watching these people and what`s more is that they`re not just watching these people, they trust these people. These people like these YouTube celebrities and these creators have credibility. They have authenticity. HAYES: OK, that strikes me as true, right. So that`s part of it. Part of it also is that what has been fascinating to me is I think there is an idea that there was going to be the next big thing that replaced TV, right? Or there is going to be the big social network. So it was going to be first it was Friendster, then MySpace, then Facebook and then Facebook is going to give away to something. What it appears now is like that world, too, is balkanizing. The same way that television has 100 channels, there`s going to be like 30 different social media platforms that people have different identities on. BRIDGET CAREY, CNET.COM: Yeah, it depends on what your taste is. I mean, people say, oh, are teenagers leaving Facebook? No, they`re just using other networks for other things. HAYES: Right, in addition to. CAREY: Exactly. You know, in the past the president always has wanted to reach out to young people. It used to be go to MTV for that and now it`s... HAYES: Right. And people thought -- I remember -- I remember Bill Clinton answering boxers or briefs in 1992 at an MTV townhall and people saying, like, this is beneath the dignity of the office, basically, which it kind of was. But... CAREY: You have to reach them where they go. And it`s clear that this administration has been going right with social media and bypassing the press because of the tools that technology allows it to have. HAYES: OK. First, I want to show -- this was my attempt, this is my old man attempt at a SnapChat. Can we show, hold this up. This is 35-year-old dad, Chris Hayes, trying to -- there we are... CAREY: Hey, impressive. HAYES: There we are. That`s me, there I am, then I`m talking and you can`t hear me. Like, literally I felt like really ancient trying to make a SnapChat stories. But here is my question to you, Teddy, audiences are breaking up, platforms are breaking up. There is still only one president. And it seems to me that in some ways that makes the president more powerful, right. At one level, people say well it is harder for him to get his message out, at the other level, there`s more competition between media and the president can be like I`m going to bring in these people who I`m not that scared of, frankly. They might ask me good questions, but they don`t hold any power over me. And I can pick and choose who I get to talk to. I don`t have to talk to anyone in the way that I might used to 40 years ago. And that actually makes the president more powerful and the press less powerful. GOFF: I think yes and no. I think there is still a bully pulpit, but I think it`s changing and it`s cahnged. I mean, I think clearly it`s the case that it`s extremely difficult -- and maybe it`ll never happen again -- that 100 million people tune into a State of the Union or tune into any kind of presidential address. At the same time you have this ability to develop actual relationships, largely via the internet, with your YouTube stars and also your everyday Facebook user and Twitter user who has got an enormous amount of influence over their friends, which may only be 100 in number, but that`s important. And so I think while there is not the same ability to kind of direct the national attention and just dominate coverage, because people aren`t even listening to coverage in the same kinds of ways and on the same kinds of timeframes, they have this new ability to actually reach into people`s lives and reach into people`s actual networks and influence the conversation that way. So, it is different. You know, it is still powerful, but it is very different. HAYES: Is Facebook worried about the fact that there are -- you know, in that video that I showed before I was sort of amazed to see all these 16- years-old being like I have a Facebook account but I never use it. Are they terrified of taht? Are they worried that they`re going to become MySpace eventually? CAREY: Facebook is constantly trying to copy things off of SnapChat just to go after that demographic, to still stay fresh. There is so many spinoff Facebook apps that do the same thing, have a disappearing message and be cute when you message your friends in just short little bursts. There`s talk that maybe SnapChat will be a new way to present the news in stories. HAYES: SnapChat is actually -- if I`m not mistaken is now hiring journalists, right? I saw it... CAREY: That`s what the buzz has been, yeah. HAYES: yes, BUT they are going to actually hire journalists themselves. And when I have to say when I saw that Jerome Jarre video, an it was like I a million people, I talked to 162,000 people in 16 minutes, like that`s a lot of people. CAREY: Everyone is always after the younger generation. And now you have proof that this is something that reaches them. HAYES: Facebook seems to me the one entity here that dominates all others, particularly for political perspective. Ben Smith at BuzzFeed had a really interesting article where he called the next -- basically the next campaign the Facebook election, right, that Facebook is going to dominate 2016 in a way that TV might have in the past. And that basically if you could get an evil genius running the Facebook algorithm, you could sway an American election. Do you think that`s true? GOFF: I think -- I think Facebook first of all probably employs a couple of evil geniuses already. You know, I think there`s no way -- you know, because it`s so diffuse and because everybody creates content and doesn`t just receive content, there is no way that it can, that any particular thing going on on Facebook could change the national dialogue in a way that an ad blitz could possibly... HAYES: I totally disagree with that. GOFF: Do you? How come? HAYES: Here`s why, because the algorithm that determines the newsfeed, which is not just oh, you just wrote something I`m going to see it, there`s a complicated algorithm, right, that says this is what you`re going to see. If someone got their hands on that and just said I want people to only see this kind of story, like it would be massively powerful. GOFF: Well, if you`re talking about someone literally like breaking into.. HAYES: That`s what I mean. GOFF: Yes, that kind of evil genius, that could have a pretty serious influence on the outcome of the election. But I think into the previous question, you know, I think one thing hat you`re seeing Facebook do in particular is start to act almost more like a holding company, almost like a private equity company for internet startups. And I think... HAYES: Because what they`re doing is going out and buying the companies they fear will be... GOFF: And then leaving them alone, letting them have their own brand. And what I think that reflects is, you know, even Facebook itself can`t expect to control eyeballs in the same way that it could -- so how can a president, how can anybody? HAYES: They did that with Instagram, they tried to do it with SnapChat and SnapChat said no thank you. CAREY: Right. And then there`s WhatsApp, which is the hot new chatting app, too. HAYES: And which they did buy for a huge valuation and people scratching their heads and then I talked to people, friends of mine, who have friends abroad and every single person uses it. All right, Bridget Carey, Teddy Goff, thank you both. That is All In for this evening. The Rachel Maddow Show starts right now. Good evening, Rachel. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END <Copy: Content and programming copyright 2015 NBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. 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