The Rachel Maddow Show, Transcript 05/02/13

CHRIS HAYES, "ALL IN" HOST: THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW starts now with one of my favorite people, guest host Melissa Harris-Perry. It`s so wonderful to throw to you, Melissa. How are you? MELISSA HARRIS-PERRY, GUEST HOST: I know. It`s like the weekend, Chris. HAYES: Yes. That`s right. HARRIS-PERRY: Thank you. And also, thanks to you at home for staying with us the next hour. Rachel has the night off. We begin tonight in Texas this afternoon at the Bush International Airport in Houston, in terminal B, near the ticket counter, a man allegedly fired a gun right there in the airport. He shot up in the ceiling and no one was injured. But when security personnel confronted him, the gentleman shot himself. The man was pronounced dead at a local hospital. So, police say the incident was an isolated one. There`s no search for additional suspects or anything like that. And, again, no one else was injured, but it was still very scary for the people in the airport. One witness told the "Associated Press" there was screaming when the shots were fired. That was Houston today. And this will be Houston tomorrow. In tactically unrelated news, the National Rifle Association is hosting its 142nd convention at the George R. Brown Convention Center in Houston. The festivities begin Friday and go all weekend. If previous NRA conventions are any guide, you can expect a lot of gun sellers selling a lot of guns. And you can also expect gun and hyperbole enthusiast Ted Nugent to say something intentionally outrageous. Last year, "The Nudge" said that by this time this year, if President Obama were re-elected, he`d either be dead or in jail. Well, like much of what the long haired outrage generator says, that turned out not to be true. He`ll be speaking at the convention Sunday. Outside the convention is another politically powerful group, survivors of gun violence and families of gun violence victims, including at least one relative of a Newtown victim. As they have done many times before, they will read aloud the names of gun violence victims, 4,000 of them. And that`s happening over the next few days in Houston. What`s also happening in the next few days, the Congressional Medal of Honor Society will honor the six educators gunned down and killed at Sandy Hook in December. The organization is made up of people who received the Medal of Honor. Four Vietnam veterans will travel to Newtown to present the honor and present to all Sandy Hook teachers and staff a certificate of commendation. That`s in Newtown, Connecticut, this weekend. A 2 1/2 hour drive from there, in Boston, former congresswoman and gun safety advocate, Gabby Giffords, will be receiving the prestigious, the very prestigious profile in courage award, John F. Kennedy presidential library and museum hands out the annual award to politician, activists and civil leaders who display unusual and almost super human-like bravery in politics. Back in March, Caroline Kennedy announced that Gabby Giffords was this year`s very deserving winner. Ms. Giffords will receive that award this weekend. And Gabby Giffords is inarguably one of the most powerful and effective political leaders today. For someone who should tire easily, Giffords has been tireless in her efforts to get a gun safety bill through Congress. She hasn`t sat on the sidelines. She sat in senator`s offices. She`s literally confronted them where they work on Capitol Hill. Do you remember this from last year`s State of the Union address? This was one of the most powerful and emotional moments from any presidential address ever. Then-Democratic Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was about to leave Congress. Just a prior, she was shot in the head in a mass shooting that killed six people. Giffords was at that State of the Union and she sat with her friend and fellow Arizona, Republican Jeff Flake, at the time he was in the House and now, he`s in the Senate. Because Giffords was still relatively weak, still in the early stages of her recovery, Congressman Flake had to help her to stand every time she wanted to join her fellow Democrats giving the president a standing ovation. Mr. Flake was often the only Republican because he was standing with her. That was last year. This year, Giffords again found herself holding onto her friend, Jeff Flake, again, one of those emotionally powerful moments when you hear about it you will never forget it. Remember Gabby Giffords and Jeff Flake really have been friends for years. And here`s how the "New York Times" described their most recent public encounter. When Gabby Giffords was trying desperately to get Republicans like Senator Jeff Flake to vote for a background check in Congress, quote, "Ms. Giffords, who still has trouble speaking because of the damage what a bullet did to her brain, grabbed Mr. Flake`s arm and tried furiously and with difficulty to say that she needed his vote. The best she could get out was the word need. Mr. Flake looked at the ground. `I said I was sorry,` Mr. Flake recalled Thursday, looking despondent. `I didn`t know what else to say. It`s very hard.`" Profile in courage indeed. Gabby Giffords` lobbying on gun safety has been amazing, to say the least. But her approach, her tactics, they`re not unique. This is what the pro-gun safety activism has looked like ever since the horrific massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary. Victims of gun violence, their families, and the families of people who have been killed by guns, they have conducted this one-on-one approach to applying political pressure. They have pushed hard to meet with members of Congress directly, not with their staffs, in order to tell their personal stories. With specific tales of tragedy and loss and violence have been at the very core of the movement, and yet despite all the political power that these victims and their families really do possess, the one gun safety bill that seemed to have at least a chance of passing this year failed. Republicans in the Senate and a handful of Democrats blocked the bipartisan background checks bill sponsored by Senator Joe Manchin, a Democrat, and Senator Pat Toomey, a Republican. Yes, it is true the bill did not pass. But no, it is not true the activism behind it ceased to exist. Just one of the Republican senators who voted against the bill needs to be asked that question. New Hampshire`s Kelly Ayotte held her first town hall this week, well, let`s just say her vote against the background checks bill has been the other elephant in the room. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a question but it`s based upon something that was said during the conversation and I`d like to be recognized to make my point. Thank you. SEN. KELLY AYOTTE (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Let me say this, I do every town hall meeting this way. I have a process and we will get to as many questions as we can. So -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You like to regulate that. You don`t want to regulate guns. (APPLAUSE) (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: That was on Tuesday. Also on Tuesday, same day, different town hall, this happens. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ERICA LAFFERTY, SANDY HOOK MASSACRE VICTIM`S DAUGHTER: I`m just wondering why the burden of my mother being gunned down in the hall of an elementary school isn`t as important enough. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: That woman, that was Erica Lafferty. Her mother was the principle at Sandy Hook Elementary School. She was killed in the massacre there in December. And Erica Lafferty wasn`t the only one who showed up to ask Senator Ayotte some rather pointed questions this week about her gun vote. Regular folks, too, they showed up wanting to know why Senator Ayotte voted the way she did. At today`s town hall, it wasn`t the question that was most notable, her was the senator`s answer that`s getting all the attention. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I received your four-page letter regarding guns and background checks. I really don`t understand. It doesn`t make sense to me. What is wrong with universal background checks? AYOTTE: OK. Thank you, John. (APPLAUSE) AYOTTE: Thank you, John. You know, John, I know obviously we`ve known each other for a couple years. I have a lot of respect for you. And on this issue, my -- I`ve described it for you, but I will tell you, in terms of a universal background check, as it`s been framed, I have a lot of concerns about that leading to a registry that will create a privacy situation for lawful firearms owners. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Seriously, Senator. I have a lot of concerns that leading to a registry that will create a privacy situation. Translation, I bought into the conspiracy theory performing the same background checks we already run on some gun buyers, on all gun buyers, that will lead to a big scary national registry of all gun owners. OK. No. No. No. That is not true. Not only does current law ban a national registry, but the bill that you, Senator Ayotte, just voted against is doubly, triply banned. It ban as registry in so many ways, you could calculate it in scientific notation. And we know this, remember, Senator, remember after you voted against the bill, remember the president`s barn burner of a press conference? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The gun lobby and its allies willfully lied about the bill. They claimed that it would create some sort of big brother gun registry, even though the bill did the opposite. This legislation in fact outlawed any registry, plain and simple, right there in the text. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: What Senator Ayotte`s non-truth tells us politically speaking we are no longer in the land of needing to be convinced, we are no longer in the land of needing to be persuaded, this is straight up political calculus. So, where do we go from here? Joining us is Ladd Everitt, director of communications at the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. Lad, thanks for being here this evening. LADD EVERITT, COALITION TO STOP GUN VIOLENCE: Thank you for having me, Melissa. HARRIS-PERRY: So, here`s what worries me when elected officials are lying directly to their constituents, it makes me wonder -- is there any room for persuasion? I mean, when you see a senator just willing to say something that is not true. EVERITT: Well, look, Melissa, I think we need to play hardball politics here. You know, the persuasion basically appealing to their hearts and saying, please do the right thing on this, please stand with Gabby Giffords and these other survivors has not worked. I mean, what we need to do now is convince them voting for sensible gun legislation is good politics, that it won`t hurt you. And I think a lot of senators, like Jeff Flake, who you mentioned in the intro, are finding that out the hard way. You know, Jeff Flake is the one who in the other day, looked at his poll numbers and said, I`m now less popular than pond scum. And that`s how it`s going. The senators who voted no on background checks are seeing their poll numbers plummet and people like, let`s say, Kay Hagan and Mary Landrieu, who thought they were taking tough votes for us, are seeing their poll numbers rise and chances in the next election cycle improve. So, you know, I think that`s the sea change. The sea change is that voting for smart gun laws has now become a boon to your political career. HARRIS-PERRY: So, this is interesting. I was sitting next to each other. On the one hand, you`ve got Jeff Flake, who`s taken a hit, but is claiming that hit is artifice of the survey, right? So, he`s saying, look, it`s a push poll. In fact, people really aren`t that mad at me about it. But on the other hand, you have Senator Baucus saying, you know what, I`d be willing to reconsider my vote if I heard from my constituents. What do you think is the message that the senators who voted against this are taking home with them? EVERITT: Well, look, I mean, Jeff Flake`s claim was a little ridiculous. As I understand it the Public Policy Polling firm he was referring to predicted his election win when he became a senator more accurately than any other firm in the country. So, I`m not quite sure what he`s referring to. But I think what you are seeing happened and we saw this start with Pat Toomey, right, is that, you know, senators who are inclined or used to be inclined to basically side with the NRA in a kind of knee-jerk reaction are now understanding that there`s a political price to pay for doing that. Their understanding I think now that the Newtown effect is not going away. It`s not going to go away. HARRIS-PERRY: But let me -- I want to push you on that a little bit - - this idea that there`s a political effect for this. I think part of what seemed to make President Obama so angry in that press conference right after the bill failed was this sense that in fact members of the Senate apparently didn`t think they were going to lose their job. Is there someone who is going to lose their job as a result of this vote? EVERITT: Yes. Undoubtedly yes. Look, I look a lot at the immigration issue to see how this dynamic on guns is now working. I mean, if you go back just a few months, you would see Mitt Romney running for president and on the immigration issue on the right wing, saying things as radical as you can imagine. Then, they go into the 2012 elections in November and they get hammered and they lose the Latino vote overwhelmingly. Now, all of a sudden, you have Republicans across the country that are dying to work on immigration reform, right? I think the Republicans will change when basically they have that deer in the headlights thing going on, where they are looking at their political survival and understanding they can no longer take these radical pro-NRA positions and, number one, get their campaigns funded and, number two, get elected. HARRIS-PERRY: Fifteen seconds. There`s going to be a new president now of the NRA, as of this convention. Will that make any difference? EVERITT: Well, look, if you love Ted Nugent, you`re going to love the new incoming president for the NRA, Jim Porter. I mean, this guy could have walked out of a militia camp a few minutes ago. He called the civil war the war of northern aggression, says that Obama is a fake president and claims that the U.N. treaty to curb the trade and elicit small arms worldwide was a conspiracy to take away all individually held firearms across the world. So, you`re going to love Jim Porter. This is a gold mine, I think. HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, wow. Ladd Everitt, director of communications at the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence -- thanks for joining us this evening. EVERITT: Thank you. HARRIS-PERRY: And there`s lots more to come, including some big news from a little state about same sex marriage. And later, the new George W. Bush Library remembers hurricane Katrina. I`m serious. But, first, one more thing about the background vote check last month, Republican senator Kelly Ayotte was not the only senator to be held in account for her vote. Senator John McCain, who split with his party on this, who voted for background checks, he had a town hall meeting, too, and a former aide to Gabby Giffords wounded in the same mass shooting in Tucson that almost killed the congresswoman, she showed up directly to speak to Senator McCain. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PAM SIMON: I would like to thank you very much for your vote on Manchin/Toomey background checks. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: That was Pam Simon, former aide to Congresswoman Gabby Giffords and a gun violence survivor. Those Manchin/Toomey votes were not made unanimously. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: There is not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America, there has the United States of America. (APPLAUSE) The pundits -- the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue states. Red states for Republicans, blue states for Democrats. But I`ve got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the blue states and we don`t like federal agents poking around in our library in the red states. We coach little league in the blue states and yes, we have friends that are gay in the red states. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripe. All of us defending the United States of America. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: We all remember that moving speech that then Illinois state senator, a very young Barack Obama delivered at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. It was a speech that paved the way for his presidency. But since the 2012 election, the red/blue color divide has grown deeper. Red states seem to be getting redder and blue states bluer and compromise, well, it is harder to come by. We saw this firsthand just last month after the gun control bill died in the Senate. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: And a few minutes ago, 90 percent of Democrats in the Senate voted for that idea. But it`s not going to happen because 90 percent of Republicans in the Senate just voted against that idea. I have consistently said there are regional differences when it comes to guns, and that both sides have to listen to each other. We can do more if Congress gets its act together. And if this Congress refuses to listen to the American people and pass common sense gun legislation, then the real impact is going to have to come from the voters. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: In this country, if laws don`t pass on the federal level, movement often happens slowly on the state level. Voters lobby their state representatives to get the ball rolling. So, in a sense, states become training grounds or laboratories for legislation. Take for example Romneycare, it passed in Massachusetts and then we decided basically to implement it across the country. So, with this notion of states as laboratories, let`s look at two experiments that happened this week. For red laboratory, we have the great state of Alabama, a state with a Republican governor, Republican Senate and Republican House. And in this state earlier this week, the Alabama Senate passed legislation to nullify all federal gun laws in Albany. Meaning, any federal laws deemed contrary to the Second Amendment would be declared null and void. So, the Alabama state senate voted two days ago to nullify federal law. Should that bill become the law of that red piece of land, it is unclear if it would ever have its intended effect. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder sent a letter to Kansas Senator Sam Brownback last week, asserting Kansas new state law that says guns made in Kansas are immune from federal regulations is unconstitutional. Still, we know where certain red states are coming from regarding gun regulation. So, now, to a blue laboratory, to the great state of California, where we have a Democratic governor, Democratic Senate with a super majority, and a Democratic House. In this state earlier this week, California Governor Jerry Brown signed into a law a measure that allocates $24 million to confiscate illegal weapons owned by convicted criminals and individuals with mental illness. California is now the only state in the country with this type of program. Democrats fully in charge and extremely aggressive approach to the gun regulation, how that new law works and what effect it has remains to be seen. State Senator Obama was right. We are the United States. But there is no getting around the fact there are red laboratories and blue laboratories among us. And the divide between the two is growing deeper. While we do not know what all these experiments will amount to, it`s revealing to see what unfettered political parties on both sides will do to at least express their will. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: Have you ever been to Rhode Island? Let me rephrase that. Have you ever been to Rhode Island in summer? I`m talking about the fancy pants part of the state, along the seacoast around Newport. They are tall ships, lots of them. There`s a jazz festival, music and ships. There`s an air show, planes and ships. There are Kennedys, Kennedys and ships. There are weddings, Kennedys and weddings! Jack and Jackie got married in Newport in 1953. And more recently, the co-founder of Facebook got hitched in Newport last summer -- no, not Mark Zuckerberg. One of the other founders whose name you don`t actually know even after watching the social network. The state of Rhode Island markets itself as a destination wedding state. It tries to sell you on the idea that your Aunt Phyllis doesn`t need to schlep all the way to Aruba to watch you get married on the ocean. She can drive her Buick Encore right up I-95. Earlier tonight, the governor of Rhode Island saw to it that Rhode Island`s get married here industry extends to everyone, including same sex couples, because tonight, Governor Lincoln Chafee signed the state`s new marriage equality bill into law. He didn`t even wait for the bill to be delivered to his desk. He signed it on the steps of the statehouse only minutes after the final version of the legislation was approved. Which means that starting August 1st, Rhode Island becomes the 10th state in the country to have legal marriage for all couples. The very last state to do it in New England. Look at that sea of yellow in the Northeast. Delaware might be next. The bill authorizing same sex marriage has been sent to the state Senate there for vote next week, and more same sex marriage bills are waiting for consideration in Illinois and Minnesota. And New Mexico is being asked to come up with an opinion on the issue one way or the other. Every state in the country has a law either for or against same sex marriage except New Mexico. Two same sex couples denied marriage licenses in New Mexico have recently filed suit in an effort to force the state to decide. But, right now at this hour, same sex marriage has become law in the state of Rhode Island and it goes into effect August 1. Ten states now have marriage equality on the books plus the District of Columbia , fully 20 percent of these United States have expanded this very lovely loving right to all. And joining us now for the interview is Rhode Island`s independent governor, Lincoln Chafee. Thanks to being here, Governor. GOV. LINCOLN CHAFEE (I), RHODE ISLAND: My pleasure, Melissa. HARRIS-PERRY: So, there was a lot of celebration at the capitol today. What did the moment feel like for you? CHAFEE: Oh, it was a great celebration. Historic vote, 56-15. So overwhelming vote. And then as you said, we marched out and signed the bill. So, first, it passed the senate last week and today`s vote in the House, marched straight out and signed a big celebration still going on here in Providence. HARRIS-PERRY: Talk to me about the overwhelming nature of this vote, because this is the kind of sea change that we`ve seen on this issue. CHAFEE: Yes. And earlier, in your segment, you were talking about the gun issue and public opinion and how that`s shaping this debate politically. That`s very true on gay marriage. Rhode Island is one of the highest Roman Catholic states in the country if not the highest. And still, it was 56-15 in the House and 26-12 in the Senate. So, overwhelming votes. And I think that`s because public opinion is just changing, especially with young people. Young people very, very tolerant, accepting the diversity that comes with gay marriage and actually welcoming of it. That`s a big political dynamic. HARRIS-PERRY: So, I know you have made marriage equality arguments in this kind of very moral ethical sense. But the other kind of marriage equality argument you made is economic. Make that claim for me. CHAFEE: Absolutely. I do believe those studies that show there is a correlation between tolerance and economic prosperity. Richard Flora (ph) is an author that talks about tolerant, technology and tolerance being the foundations of a good economy. And tolerance aspect is very, very important. Young people, especially creative people, not only if they`re gay, but also, they just like that atmosphere -- younger people, creative people and that`s how you grow a good economy -- start-up companies, engineers, young people, that`s the roots of a good economy. There is a correlation. HARRIS-PERRY: So, we were talking about the states as laboratories around gun legislation, but the states have also been laboratories around this issue of marriage equality. How soon until we see this as a federal law? CHAFEE: Good question. I do think Republicans are changing. Believe it or not, in our state senate, the Republican caucus is not a big one here in Rhode Island, but the entire Republican caucus voted for same sex marriage. And it`s the first time either caucus in either party has voted in a block for gay marriage in any of the states, or any of the other nine states, plus the District of Columbia. So, our entire Republican delegation in the Senate voted for it. So, you can tell -- things are changing, even in the Republican Party. And that`s good. HARRIS-PERRY: Rhode Island Governor Lincoln Chafee, once a Republican, now independent, always an ally -- thank you very much for your signature tonight. CHAFEE: Thank you, Melissa. Have a good night. HARRIS-PERRY: And one brave state legislator made a life and death decision today. I`ll have that next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: The first person to ever be exonerated from death row due to DNA evidence was released in the state of Maryland. His name is Kirk Bloodsworth. And here he is on June 28th, 1993, the day he was released from prison after nearly nine years. Mr. Bloodsworth was sentenced to death for the rape and murder of a child and DNA evidence cleared him of that crime and helped identify the perpetrator. This is a picture of Mr. Bloodsworth today, holding one of the pens that the governor of Maryland used to sign that state`s repeal of the death penalty. This morning, Maryland Governor Martin O`Malley signed Senate bill 276, which abolished the death penalty in his state, making Maryland the 18th state in the country without the death penalty. Since his exoneration, Kirk Bloodsworth has been on a mission to repeal the death penalty by telling his own story. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KIRK BLOODSWORTH: At the time, I was married, and I was newly married. I was 22 years old. I have never been arrested before, discharged out of Marine, I went to a Christian high school. I don`t pretend to purport I was an angel, but I certainly knew what I wasn`t and that was a child killer. My mother passed away before the results. This was in January of 1993. And she died of a massive heart attack when I was in prison. I was allowed to see her for five minutes in handcuffs and shackles and I went back to prison. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: The DNA evidence that cleared Kirk back in the early 1990s was a scientific breakthrough. It changed the way we think of DNA evidence. DNA evidence made it clear that some like Kirk were not guilty of the crimes they had been sentenced to death. And that began to give many states pause. Another piece of evidence giving states reason to reconsider their execution practices is the racial equation of capital punishment. Back in 1999, then Maryland then-governor commissioned this study to figure out how race and jurisdiction factored into whether a defendant was sentenced to death and the study found a vicious racial alchemy determining life and death in Maryland. It was a combination of the race of the assailant and race of the victim that ended up making a big difference. When the defendant is black and the victim is white, the likelihood of getting death is significantly higher. But the last person to be executed in Maryland was this man, Wesley Eugene Baker. He died at the hands of the state on December 5th, 2005, more than seven years ago. The reason no one has been executed in Maryland for more than seven years before today`s official ban on capital punishment was signed into law? Because Maryland had a de facto ban on the death penalty that had nothing to do with DNA evidence or evidence from a big official study showing racial disparities in the way that death is being handed out. The reason for the state`s de facto ban on capital punishment was an obscure regulation. Prison officials in Maryland have come up with their own processes by which they put people to death and those processes were not signed off by the appropriate authorities. That is why Maryland had to stop executing people in 2006 unofficially. But when we talk about capital punishment in this country, we can talk about the science or we talk about the race, or we talk about guilt and innocence, maybe we talk about oversight. But rarely do we talk about whether or not we want to be a society that chooses to kill its own citizens for their crimes. Only China, Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia put more of their citizens to death than we do. Do we want to be in the company of those countries on this issue? If not, is Maryland`s repeal of the death penalty a promising sign that we could be moving the country in the right direction. Joining us now is Kirk Bloodsworth, the first American death row inmate exonerated by evidence. He is now advocacy director for Witness to Innocence, a non-profit organization dedicated to empowering exonerate death row survivors and ending the death penalty in the U.S. Kirk, it`s so nice to have you here tonight. BLOODSWORTH: Melissa, it`s a pleasure to be here. It`s a big day. HARRIS-PERRY: It is a big day, and your group, Witness to Innocence, has been working on this repeal, kind of across the U.S. Tell me how important the Maryland victory is. BLOODSWORTH: Well, you know, 28 years ago, I was sitting in a prison cell and waiting to die for a crime I didn`t commit. There`s been 142 Americans who have been found wrongfully convicted and Witness to Innocence has been showing these individuals for the last 10 years. Our anniversary is coming up this October. I have to say that, you know, since I got out in 1993, it`s just one right after another. And, honestly, we don`t need to be executing our citizens, like you say, because, in fact, they are innocent people. HARRIS-PERRY: So, it does feel to me like a lot of the argument, a lot of the momentum around abolishing the death penalty is about that, the idea of people like you for whom DNA evidence shows that they are not guilty of those crimes. Can we get to a point where we can make an argument that even if someone is guilty of the crime, we don`t believe the state should be putting them to death? BLOODSWORTH: I think so. I mean, we`ve come a long way in this thing. DNA has shown us that we have a ton of problems. You were talking about one of them earlier, the racial disparity in Maryland, it`s quite evident. I was on the commission as well. I sat there and was just flabbergasted by some of the stuff that I didn`t know. You know, the way we do forensic sciences. Racial disparity, jurisdictional disparity, you name it. It comes down to it, Melissa, that the death penalty is a failed policy. It hasn`t deterred anybody and certainly hasn`t detected a soul since it`s been enacted. I`m happy to see it go today. HARRIS-PERRY: And, Kirk, it`s also an expensive policy. I was just talking to the governor of Rhode Island about marriage equality and economic arguments around it. Is there an economic argument to be made to states abolishing the death penalty? BLOODSWORTH: Oh, absolutely. The state of California for example, you know, just spent -- had a 725 people on death row, billions of dollars in up front costs. Maryland, we found the same thing. You know, about $3 million more to execute a person and put him in prison for life or life without parole. I think, you know, we have found that this practice is expensive and for Witness to Innocence, and people like myself, the worst thing that could happen and the most pensive is the execution of an innocent person. HARRIS-PERRY: Absolutely. Kirk Bloodsworth, thank you so much for your advocacy and also for joining us tonight, and enjoy this night, which is a big win for you. BLOODSWORTH: I will indeed, Melissa. Thank you. HARRIS-PERRY: Absolutely. At the new George W. Bush Library in Dallas, we get this version, verse from the president about the response to hurricane Katrina. It is an incredible bit of self-written history, and it`s next. Did I mention I live in New Orleans? (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: So if knowledge is power, why do Republicans want less knowledge? That`s just ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: This handsome fellow is the Count. By his own account, the Count is called the Count because he loves to count. Who can blame him? Counting is fun and very useful. And so, the Count has been teaching children the fun and importance of counting for generations. I love the Count. Thanks to you, Count. Millions and millions of Americans get it that numbers matter. I mean, Cookie Monster is going to eat how ever many cookies you count. But in most areas of endeavor, how many is a super important thing. For instance, tomorrow is jobs day. That is the day we want the number to be high, the day in which we learn how many jobs the nation created the previous month and whether the unemployment rate went up or down. Knowing how we`re doing influences investment and public policy, so fingers crossed because numbers are powerful. Now, imagine if suddenly these numbers disappeared? What if the monthly jobs report didn`t exist and we were left to guess what the monthly unemployment was, getting better or worse. This completely untenable, unworkable, and damaging possibility could be reality if Congressman Jeff Duncan, a South Carolina Republican could pass a bill he`s pushing. It`s called the Congress Reform Act and Congressman Duncan and 10 of his House colleagues are all for it. If Jeff Duncan`s name sounds familiar, it`s because Rachel mentioned him just two weeks ago when the South Carolina Republican was one of four members of Congress pushing Glenn Beck`s conspiracy theories in the wake of the Boston bombings. But now, he`s waging a different kind of assault on reality. He`s sponsoring a bill that would tell the Census Bureau it would be allowed to continue to do that once a decade count of the populace, for which it`s famous, and that is all the Census Bureau would be allowed to do. Here`s the thing about that proposal, the Census Bureau also oversees an economic census, an agricultural census, a government census and on and on. It provides reliable, accurate information to all of us and it is information that helps us to live better lives. A business owner is wondering where to build a new factory. City planners need to know where to expand roadways. Investors want to know what the nation`s gross domestic product is. All of those job creators, well, they rely on data from the Census Bureau. Ken Prewitt, the former director of the U.S. Census, who is now a professor of public affairs at Columbia University, told "The Huffington Post" this week that if Duncan`s proposal became law, from now on, we won`t have an unemployment rate. Maurine Haver, a past president of the National Association of Business Economics added, "Do they understand that these data, that the Census Bureau collects, are fundamental to everything else that`s done?" The proposal to scrap a huge part of the Census Bureau`s work is unlikely to get anywhere, because Democrats and probably some Republicans will have none of it. It is important to note there are members of Congress, at least 11 of them, who do not care to be tethered by information for whom information appears to be a nuisance. Yes, there are Republicans in Congress who dare to defy the dauntless defender of data, the count. Seriously. You don`t want to listen to this guy? What`s next? A war on Big Bird? (COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS-PERRY: What are you doing this weekend? Got any big plans? If for some reason you happen to find yourself in or around Dallas, Texas, there is a brand spanking-new attraction that just popped up in your own backyard. Introducing the George W. Bush Presidential Library and Museum. Yesterday was the grand opening for the general public and this weekend marks the library`s long-anticipated inaugural weekend. And if you`re going to be in Dallas over the next few delays, I`m telling you, you just must check it out, if only for the shock value. Last night on this show, Rachel discussed the main attraction inside the new Bush Library, which is an exhibit called Decision Point Theater. It`s basically an interactive game where you can reenact the biggest decisions that George W. Bush had to make as president. Decisions like should we invade Iraq. The problem, as Rachel pointed out last night, when you try to say no, we should not invade! Please let`s do anything but invade Iraq -- President Bush pops up on the screen and starts making the case of all the overwhelming evidence against Saddam Hussein, evidence that has since been thoroughly discredited 10 years later in what`s supposed to be a library is being taught as fact that Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat who must be dealt with unilaterally if necessary? So there is a certain shock value to the new Bush Library. But if the Iraq war isn`t exactly your thing, if you want to relive the glory of another Bush decision, the George W. Bush Library gives you the opportunity to do that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a look at the list of scenarios in front of me. First, you will select which one you want to tackle. The majority of the theater chose hurricane Katrina. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Yes, hurricane Katrina. What is the decision point that the Bush Library asks you to confront when it comes to hurricane Katrina? A disaster in which nearly 2,000 Americans died, many in their own homes. What`s the decision point that`s laid before you at the Bush Library? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officials in New Orleans are overwhelmed. The president can send in troops, but those troops would serve in supporting roles and state efforts and would not have law enforcement powers unless the president invokes what`s called the Insurrection Act. President Bush had to make a choice. One, rely on the National Guard and local police. Two, send in federal troops in a supporting role with no law enforcement authority. Three, invoke the Insurrection Act and send in troops to restore order. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: Excuse me, restoring order was the problem when it came to hurricane Katrina? Seriously? The main dilemma faced by President Bush when it came to the government`s response to Hurricane Katrina was quelling disorder? The Bush Library takes you through this whole scenario about how to deal with the problem of looters and how to restore law and order in New Orleans. That is the decision point. No mention at all of, you know, search and rescue. Eight years later, the people of New Orleans who were basically left to starve and dehydrate and die in our city, mostly elderly people and children, eight years later, these people are memorialized at the Bush Library as public enemies, not as citizens who were in need of relief. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Americans are facing lawlessness and chaos. We need to send in federal troops (INAUDIBLE) the city in the state of insurrection, so our troops have the legal authority we need to restore order. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, federal troops aren`t trained police officers. There`s a danger that sending them in put them in harm`s way without the ability to defend themselves or the training necessary to apprehend criminals. GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: I decided that sending in federal troops would diminish authority was better than sending in no federal troops at all. It was what the crisis required, and the troops helped restore order in the city. (END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS-PERRY: OK. The legacy of hurricane Katrina that`s on display at the Bush Library is that order had to be restored to the lawless and violent city of New Orleans, and thank goodness President Bush was there to make the right call. Wow. This game at the Bush Library is supposed to make you feel the intense pressure of the presidency, the minute-by-minute decisions you have to make as developments unfold all around you. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most powerful hurricanes in several decades -- UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Levee broke yesterday, another levee broke today. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Water is rising so fast. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no food, no water, no electricity. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s going to be increasingly chaotic in New Orleans, the city`s Homeland Security chief says there are gangs of armed men moving around the city. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time`s up. It`s time to make a decision. (END VIDEO CLIP) PERRY: So it should be noted that the level of urgency that`s on display inside Decision Point Theater was not so much on display when it came to the decider himself. This was President Bush, the morning that Katrina made land fall, sharing a cake with John McCain in Arizona. This was after his administration had already been informed that levees in New Orleans had been breached. This was President Bush on day two of the disaster yakking it up with the country music star in southern California. That night as the situation was growing worse and worse in New Orleans, George W. Bush decided to return to his ranch in Crawford, Texas, to finish up his vacation. When he finally headed back to D.C. the next day, President Bush got an aerial view of the damage in Louisiana and Mississippi. But by Friday, five days into that disaster, his aides at the White House were putting together DVDs of news coverage to convince President Bush how bad things were in New Orleans. During those five days, President Bush was not on the edge of his seat as the Bush Library would like you to believe. He was basically checked out. That`s the real history. The truth is, the American people have already decided how they felt about President Bush`s leadership during Katrina and while his approval ratings before Katrina weren`t that impressive, they never recovered afterwards. Fifteen months after the failed response, Democrats took control of the House. They took control of the Senate. And they took a majority of gubernatorial seats across the country. The public has already decided, hey, here in Dallas this weekend, you`ve got some time? Go see how President Bush saved a city from disaster, restored a sense of calm in all of the disorder. Now, it`s time for "THE LAST WORD" with Lawrence O`Donnell. Have a good night. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END <Copy: Content and programming copyright 2013 MSNBC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2013 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.>