Show: THE LAST WORD WITH LAWRENCE O'DONNELL Date: July 16, 2018 Guest:
LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Come on, Rachel. Twenty seconds, come on. That's nothing. That's nothing.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST, "ALL IN": That's nothing for me, I know. Sorry.
O'DONNELL: Come on. So far, it's the best 20 seconds of my show.
So, we're left with this choice: is Donald Trump just lying when he says he doesn't think Russia did it, or he's not sure if Russia did it, or is he being just ridiculously gullible? Is he the most gullible person who's ever spoken to Vladimir Putin? And what's the difference between those two disastrous possibilities?
MADDOW: I mean, the difference now between all the other times when he said he didn't know if Russia did it or as a 400-pound guy or China or somebody on their bed and all these other things they said, the difference now is that not only of all the U.S. intelligence agencies come out and said they did it, but the bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee has come out and said they did it. And we've just had this incredibly detailed indictment about not just who did it, but how they did it, when, on which computers, and using which bitcoin.
I mean, the detail that we've got on this makes his unwillingness to accede to the facts here. It makes it something more than just lying. Like it's an attempt to defy the facts even when everybody has to know that's exactly what he's doing and that's a lie that you know you don't get away with, which makes it something new.
O'DONNELL: And to stand there on that stage today and try to get away with it, to try to get away with it, right in front of all of these reporters, each of whom on the American side anyway we're capable of dismantling it and making it kind of fall apart before our eyes.
MADDOW: Yes, I feel like it's he's it's almost insisting that he will get away with it. It's almost him it's almost sort of a bullying move in terms of the truth by -- I mean, there's no question that he is not telling the truth about something, and that we all know it, and that everybody in the room knows it. Nobody is persuaded by him asserting this contrary set of facts anymore and yet, he continues to insist and now further insists on it as if he's sort of daring us to let him get away with it or insisting that we must get away with it as a way of sort of breaking the idea of accountability at all.
And I think maybe that's the thing that people have proved to be so allergic to today with this. The national uproar over his behavior is as much a surprise to me as anything else that happened here at this summit, but it's heartening.
O'DONNELL: And surely, somewhere in Donald Trump's brain is the belief that he accomplished something today, something that we couldn't see I think.
MADDOW: Yes, who knows? Maybe he's a got -- maybe he got praised for doing a good job with his secret job that we don't know about. You never know. Yes.
O'DONNELL: We will never know. We'll never know what was said in that secret meeting.
MADDOW: Yes.
O'DONNELL: Thank you, Rachel.
MADDOW: Thanks, Lawrence.
O'DONNELL: Well, Donald Trump's press conference performance in Helsinki rises to and exceeds the threshold of high crimes and misdemeanors, it was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trumps comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin.
Now, none of those are my words. That is what former director of the CIA, John Brennan, said after the president's press conference today with Vladimir Putin. Donald Trump showed himself once again to be the weakest president who has ever had to confront a Russian leader or a Soviet leader.
In president Trump's opening remarks, this is all he had to say about the cyber war that Vladimir Putin launched against the United States to attempt to control the outcome of the presidential election here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I address directly with President Putin the issue of Russian interference in our elections. I felt this was a message best delivered in person, spent a great deal of time talking about it and President Putin may very well want to address it and very strongly because he feels very strongly about it and he has an interesting idea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: It is hard to imagine a weaker statement by a president of the United States in that situation. But things got much worse when the questioning started. Two Russian reporters were allowed to ask questions and two American reporters. The Russian reporters were as servile as we have come to expect from them. The American reporters got President Trump to repeatedly humiliate and disgrace himself, even with an easy softball first question like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, you tweeted this morning that it's U.S. foolishness, stupidity and the Mueller probe that is responsible for the decline in U.S. relations with Russia. Do you hold Russia at all accountable for anything in particular? And if so, what would you -- what would you consider them that they are responsible for?
TRUMP: Yes, I do. I hold both countries responsible. I think that the United States has been foolish. I think we've all been foolish. We should have had this dialogue a long time ago, a long time frankly before I got to office, and I think we're all to blame. But I do feel that we have both made some mistakes.
I think that the probe is a disaster for our country. I think it's kept us apart. It's kept us separated. There was no collusion at all. Everybody knows it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: And with that, Donald Trump became the first American president in history to condemn the United States in fealty to a Russian president standing there beside him. Donald Trump just said -- just heard him say I think that the United States has been foolish, but he would not dare then say the sentence I think Russia has been foolish. He would not dare say those words.
He would not dare say the sentence, I think President Putin has been foolish, wouldn't dare say that. And it got worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: President Putin, if I could follow up as well. Why should Americans and why should President Trump believe your statement that Russia did not intervene in the 2016 election, given the evidence that U.S. intelligence agencies have provided? And will you consider extraditing the 12 Russian officials that were indicted last week by a U.S. grand jury?
TRUMP: Well, I'm going to let the president answer the second part of that question but as you know --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: In the interest of time and your sanity, we will save you this imbecilic section of President Trump's comments. Suffice to say that it included his version of how he won the Electoral College and how impossibly difficult that is for a Republican candidate to do and it ended with him saying, we ran a brilliant campaign and that's why I'm president.
Vladimir Putin in turn talked about the extradition of the 12 Russian military officers who's special prosecutor Robert Mueller indicted on Friday, something President Trump did not even bring up in his private conversation with Vladimir Putin. According to President Trump's own summation of that private conversation, Vladimir Putin invited Robert Mueller to formally seek the extradition of those Russian military officers, but then, of course, Vladimir Putin attached an impossible condition to that extradition, saying that Robert Mueller would have to share all of his information with Russian investigators and allow Russian investigators to question members of the CIA and the FBI.
And that is exactly the kind of thing that can provoke a former CIA director like John Brennan to call the president's performance today, quote, nothing short of treasonous, the fact that Donald Trump publicly accepted that offer from Vladimir Putin, thought it was a great idea.
Vladimir Putin is much smoother, much more eloquent than Donald Trump who is, of course, the least eloquent president of a major power in the world. But Vladimir Putin is not nearly as smart as any of the smoother leaders of the G7 and other major countries in the world, and Vladimir Putin proved that when he admitted that he wanted Donald Trump to win the presidency, and he did indeed direct his government to help Donald Trump win the presidency.
Donald Trump said there wouldn't be a Perry Mason moment in his private meeting with Vladimir Putin and I'm sure there wasn't, but the Perry Mason moment as Donald Trump describes it did come today, when Vladimir Putin revealed in public the smoking gun in his hand in response to a question by Jeff Mason of "Reuters" in which the audio was a bit muted at first but it's all there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Did you want President Trump to win the election and did you direct any of your officials to help him do that?
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Yes, I did. Yes, I did, because he talked about bringing the U.S. -Russia relationship back to normal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: You just heard Vladimir Putin asked, did you want President Trump to win and did you direct any of your officials to help him win? And Vladimir Putin said yes, I did, yes, I did.
Yes to both of those things. Yes to I wanted Donald Trump to win the election and yes to I directed officials to help him do that. And that's exactly what Robert Mueller indicted 12 Russian military officers for on Friday.
There are very few foreign leaders who can be tricked into saying they had a preference in an American presidential election, but the former KGB agents, who probably believes his own press about how brilliant he is, made that simple mistake today. And standing beside the Russian president when he said that today was Putin's prize, Donald Trump, the man Putin wanted to be president of the United States, the man Putin did everything he could to help become president of the United States and how perfect a prize he was today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Just now, President Putin denied having anything to do with the election interference in 2016. Every U.S. intelligence agency has concluded that Russia did. What -- who my first question for you, sir, is, who do you believe? My second question is, would you now with the whole world watching tell President Putin, would you denounce what happened in and would you warn him to never do it again?
TRUMP: So, let me just say that we have two thoughts. You have groups that are wondering why the FBI never took the server. (AUDIO GAP) haven't they taken the server. Why was the FBI told to leave the office of the Democratic National Committee, I've been wondering that.
I've been asking that for a months and months, and I've been tweeting it out and calling it out on social media. Where is the server? I want to know where is the server and what is the server saying. With that being said, all I can do is ask the question.
My people came to me, Dan Coates came to me and some others, they said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia.
I will say this: I don't see any reason why it would be.
So, I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: With the whole world watching, would you denounce what happened in 2016 and would you want warn Putin not to do it again, and President Trump does not denounce what happened in 2016. He does not dare warn Putin not to do anything.
The Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats did not say that he thinks that Russia did it. He says he knows that Russia did it and last week, this is what Dan Coats said the president should say to Vladimir Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN COATS, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: My message would be, we know what you're doing and we know you know what you're doing and what we are doing. We know you run the shop. We know you're making the decisions.
You can't pass it off to oh that's some hacker down -- somewhere where we don't know. We know what you do and so, you make the choice. But if you want to stay in this tit-for-tat, we're going to beat you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Today, Donald Trump's talking points were the same as the Russian president's talking points, and that is how much Russia won in its cyber invasion of the United States in 2016. Russia won an American president, an American president who admires the Russian president and who echoes the Russian president.
The last question of the press conference made perfect sense and was inconceivable at any moment in history prior to the Trump presidency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Sir, do you, does the Russian government, have any compromising material on President Trump or his family?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: And Vladimir Putin gave an answer that was 220 words long and nowhere in that answer did Vladimir Putin say no. He never said, no, we do not have any compromising material on President Trump or his family. Instead, Vladimir Putin told a lie that he did not know who Donald Trump was when Donald Trump visited Moscow with his beauty pageant.
David Corn will join us later with details on that particular Putin lie.
And even though that last question was not directed at President Trump. President Trump desperately wanted to get the last word about any compromising material that Vladimir Putin might have on him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PUTIN (through translator): Well, please just disregard these issues and don't think this is anymore again.
TRUMP: And I have to say, if they had it, it would have been out long ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: And as you will hear later in this program, intelligence officials disagree with that. If Vladimir Putin had compromising information on Donald Trump or his family -- of course, he would keep it as his little secret with Donald Trump, so that he could control Donald Trump, especially in one-on-one meetings with Donald Trump.
And then President Trump threw in a last line today to end the press conference with a Trumpian dash of incoherence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And if anybody watched Peter Strzok testify over the last couple of days and I was in Brussels watching it, it was a disgrace to the FBI, it was a disgrace to our country, and you would say that was a total witch hunt. Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: And so, the final three words of the president's summit with Vladimir Putin were "total witch hunt".
Joining us now are: Wendy Sherman, former undersecretary of state in the Obama administration, she is an MSNBC global affairs contributor. Also with us, Larry Pfeiffer, former CIA chief of staff and a former director of the Obama White House Situation Room. He's currently director of the Hayden Center.
And, Ambassador Sherman, these are challenging nights for programs like this because we really are tonight the first draft of history and this was a historic day. With your experience, I simply want to give you an open opportunity to react to what you saw today?
AMB. WENDY SHERMAN, MSNBC GLOBAL AFFAIRS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think I felt as most have today, including Republicans and Fox News commentators, that this was an extraordinary and really devastating and in many ways disgraceful press conference. We learned what I think we've known but didn't know on a global stage and that is President Trump is not on America's team. He may not even be on Vladimir Putin's team. He's on his own team.
And he's either just incredibly incompetent, incredibly insecure about his legitimacy or on the hook to Vladimir Putin or all three, because we saw today a man who really could not get his act together was all over the place and made the United States the equivalent of Russia, an aggressor in the world and certainly an aggressor in Ukraine, in all parts of the world and of great concern to all of Europe and to our allies or what have been our allies in Europe for so long.
NATO is in part about Russian aggression and our concerns about it, protecting our largest trading partners.
Donald Trump is always about the money. There is known money in trade with Russia. So, if there's many money involved here, it's money laundering through real estate and that's the hook.
I have no idea. What I do know is that Americans need to stand up, speak out. I was glad to hear some voices that we haven't heard before, but we have to keep our country secure and as we go to the 2018 elections, I hope that the U.S. Congress will insist that someone be appointed to make sure that we have secure election machines and election voting processes, that we really understand that cyber warfare is now the weapon of choice of Russia, and that we put all of our weight behind it.
But it'll take citizens voices speaking up maybe in phone calls to their members of Congress, maybe in the streets, maybe on the press. But it's time to speak up and speak out.
O'DONNELL: Larry Pfeiffer, the president specifically mentioned Dan Coats today, and he misstated Dan Coats' position. He said that Dan Coats thinks that it's Russia, Dan Coats has made it very clear publicly that he knows that it's Russia and those are the words he used last week in terms of who actually did the attack on our electoral system.
And what -- Dan Coats actually then issued a statement after the president's comments today, saying, reiterating what he has said before. Where does this leave the president's national security advisors, in particular Dan Coats?
LARRY PFEIFFER, FORMER CIA CHIEF OF STAFF: Well, Lawrence, the situation with Dan Coats, while on the one hand I appreciate him coming out late this afternoon with a statement reemphasizing the findings of the intelligence community assessment, I believe that the Donald Trump's standing there next to our number-one adversary, the target of our counterintelligence investigation into Russian meddling in our election, Russian interference in our election, what was a complete repudiation of the very organization and the people that Dan Coates leads.
And so, earlier today, I called for Dan Coats to resign in protest. I believe we've reached a point where, you know, continuing to re-emphasize the validity of the I.C. assessment that as you indicate earlier today or early in your conversation has been almost proven with the indictments that came out last week, is just not enough, and I believe somebody with Dan Coats credibility, with his gravitas, with his reputation, if he were to resign or perhaps even threaten to resign, we could at least get a more focused, higher-level conversation going on this very topic.
At a minimum, it would force a confirmation hearing for a new individual that would be nominated, and I'm confident given some of the hearings we've had out of Congress in recent times that will be quite an illuminating, quite a controversial event.
O'DONNELL: Ambassador Sherman, I think many people surprised that there hasn't been a principled resignation from the Trump administration. At any point, there been a lot of firings but no principled resignations. And to Larry's point, would -- how would that advance the situation, meaning Dan Coats seems be making clear sense and seems to be willing to publicly makes statement that contradict the president on a day like today. Would a new person chosen by Donald Trump at this point of possibly be as solid or performer publicly at least as Dan Coats has been?
SHERMAN: I think this is a very tough call and I appreciate what Larry has suggested here. I am concerned however that whoever would come who would rubber stamp exactly what Donald Trump wants to hear, because that's the kind of nominee he was likely to put up to do this job. I agree that hearing might illuminate much to us, but we might find ourselves in a worse circumstance.
I understand that Dan Coats put out that statement this afternoon without regard to the White House. They didn't sign off on it. He didn't ask for permission, and I think he did the right thing, which is don't ask for permission. You may have to ask for forgiveness and maybe he was just testing to see whether the president would leave him his independence to tell it like it is.
O'DONNELL: Wendy Sherman and Larry Pfeiffer, thank you very much for starting us off on this important night. Really appreciate it.
SHERMAN: Thank you.
PFEIFFER: Thank you, Lawrence.
O'DONNELL: When we come back, Jon Meacham and Rick Stengel will try to help us place this day in history. Will this be the Trump presidency's day of infamy?
And David Corn and Malcolm Nance will join us to consider Vladimir Putin's offer to Robert Mueller today. And David Corn will dismantle Vladimir Putin's public lie today that he did not know that Donald Trump was in Moscow when he brought his beauty pageant to Moscow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'DONNELL: History was made today and many observers tried to place this moment in history, including Republicans. Newt Gingrich said today that Donald Trump made, quote, the most serious mistake of his presidency.
Republican Senator Ben Sasse said this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BEN SASSE (R), NEBRASKA: Let's not mince words. Today was a terrible day for the American brand, for the American people and for all of our allies. We did not negotiate from a position of strength. We acted from a position of weakness.
As a result, one of the world's worst despot walked away today from Helsinki with a win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Arizona's retiring Republican Senator Jeff Flake said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: I thought it was shameful and I never thought I'd see an American president throw the intelligence community under the bus like that, and agree with a dictator authoritarian like he did. So, it's not a good day for the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: But no Republican was more forceful in criticism of the president today than Senator John McCain who issued a written statement saying: Today's press conference in Helsinki was one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory. The damage inflicted by President Trump's naivete, egotism, false equivalence and sympathy for autocrats is difficult to calculate.
But it is clear that the summit in Helsinki was a tragic mistake. No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant.
Joining us now, Jon Meacham, presidential historian and author of the best- selling book "The Soul of America: The Battle for Our Better Angels". He is also an MSNBC contributor.
And Richard Stengel is with us. He's a former undersecretary of state in the Obama administration and a former managing editor of "Time" magazine where he once had the opportunity to interview Vladimir Putin. He is now an MSNBC political analyst.
And, Jon Meacham, placed this day in history for us. John McCain has issued language about it that is as forceful as what any as any condemning language that we've heard all day from anyone.
JON MEACHAM, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: The only thing I would have said to Senator McCain's statement is I don't think it's in memory. I think it might be in history. I think it goes far beyond the living memory of the country.
Just two points, looking -- one looking back, one looking forward. This is what many Americans feared in the 1790s, one of the great divisions in our as -- when we set out on the national experiment in the Constitution was that the federalists would be captives of Britain and the democratic republicans might be captives of France. And so, there was a fevered kind of conspiracism that shaped the first decade of our political history.
What's different now is that it may not be a conspiracy theory at this point, it's becoming evermore evident, that if the president is not an asset of a foreign power, then he really is -- the onus is now on him to explain why he continues to act this way. And so, sometimes when a duck quacks like a duck it's a duck.
The other point in looking forward is seems to me that the unfolding narrative here is one in which this day will be at an incredibly important moment on a timeline and that to me that's what's scariest, because what is it that Putin really wants from this relationship. And I don't think we've yet seen him try to cash the check that he clearly has in his pocket.
O'DONNELL: And, Rick, John McCain went on to say, coming close on the heels of President Trump's bombastic and erratic conduct towards our closest friends and allies in Brussels and Britain, today's press conference marks a recent low in the history of the American presidency.
RICHARD STENGEL, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I think we have a national security crisis going on as some people have said. You have an American president. The Constitution says he must take care that the laws are faithfully executed.
He went to Helsinki, stood next to a foreign dictator and sided with the dictator over our own intelligence establishment and law enforcement and Justice Department. Why is that? It's very strange.
What happens now to all those people? You're talking about Dan Coats before. The tens of thousands of men and women who were serving in these agencies in Washington. You have the titular head of it who has betrayed all of your interests for a reasons that nobody knows.
O'DONNELL: Just give us a quick insight into what it is like to be sitting in the room with Vladimir Putin. I think we have a photograph of you doing it. What is it that Donald Trump is falling for?
STENGEL: Well, I don't know that he's fallen for anything. I mean, he does -- he just seemed to admire autocrats. I mean, if you were Vladimir Putin, there will be a chill cold air coming and hitting you right now.
O'DONNELL: That's the way it felt when you (INAUDIBLE)?
STENGEL: Absolutely. I mean, Henry Kissinger said to me beforehand, you will be surprised how little he tries to charm you. There is no affect that he has at all.
O'DONNELL: John Meacham, I want to give you another line from John McCain because I think John McCain was trying to place this in our history. He said not only did President Trump fail to speak the truth about an adversary, but our President failed to defend all that makes us who we are, a republic of free people dedicated to the cause of liberty at home and abroad.
JOHN MEACHAM, AUTHOR, THE SOUL OF AMERICA: Well, that's the great American -- insofar as we are an exceptional country, that is where our exceptionalism has been. General Powell once said that we have gone a broad, we projected force and all we ever asked for is the ground on which to bury our dead.
And there is a lot to that. I'm not saying we're a blameless country. Far from it. But we have, in fact, defined ourselves as what Lincoln's called us the last best hope and President Reagan, who, Lord, God knows what he is thinking at this point, saying the last best home of man on earth.
And I think that we have reached a point where there is a significant -- it's not irreparable, but it is a hugely significant breach in our ongoing faith with the global community. And what worries me most is the known and unknown, as Don Rumsfeld might put it, of what happens next.
Let's say Putin -- just look at this whole week, about the last five, six days in total. What happens if Putin launches military action against, say, the Baltics? What is it that President Trump -- what about his comments at NATO suggested that he would follow an invocation of article five and actually project American force in defense of the values that not only do we have an intellectual and moral assent to, but a contractual one, a treaty one? I think that's a great question going forward.
O'DONNELL: John Meacham and Rick Stengel, we really appreciate your invaluable perspectives on this tonight. Thank you very much for joining us both. We really appreciate it.
And when we come back, Vladimir Putin made an offer that only Donald Trump could not refuse.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no extradition, but he's willing to let Robert Mueller's people go over there and bring a big investigation of those people, working together with Russian investigators.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: That was the President with Sean Hannity tonight.
The worst negotiator in the history of the presidency was thrilled by a proposal from Vladimir Putin today that luckily for the United States will never happen. Donald Trump did not demand the extradition of the 12 Russian military officers indicted by Robert Mueller last week. And the only reason extradition was discussed today was that Jeff Mason of Reuters asked about it and Vladimir Putin made an offer that only someone named Trump could think was a good deal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We can meet you halfway. We can make another step. We can actually permit representatives of the United States, including the members of this very commission headed by Mr. Mueller, we can let them into the country and they will be present for this questioning.
But in this case there is another condition. This kind of effort should be a mutual one. Then we would expect that the Americans would reciprocate and they would question officials, including the officers of law enforcement and intelligence services of the United States whom we believe are -- who have something to do with illegal actions on the territory of Russia, and we have to request the presence of our law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: And here is Donald Trump's reaction to that offer, a reaction that John Brennan found, as I said, imbecilic near treasonous.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: What he did was said an incredible offer. He offered to have the people working on the case come and work with their investigators with respect to the 12 people. I think that's an incredible offer. OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: Joining our discussion now David Corn, Washington bureau chief for "Mother Jones" and coauthor of the bestselling book "Russian Roulette." And he is an MSNBC political analyst. Also joining us Malcolm Nance, and MSNBC counterterrorism and intelligence analyst and the author of the book "the plot to destroy democracy."
And Malcolm Nance, Donald Trump thinks that that is, let me get the words correctly, an incredible offer.
MALCOLM NANCE, MSNBC TERRORISM EXPERT: He is absolutely right. That offer is incredible.
I mean, this guy has no clue when he is being played. And maybe he does. Maybe he enjoys the game and he thinks that he is, you know, in some high stakes poker game in which the credibility of U.S. intelligence and U.S. justice and U.S. law enforcement is an easy played chip and that he is just going to, you know, throw that out there and let's see what the critics say about it. This man absolutely supports Vladimir Putin and he is playing a game with our democracy.
O'DONNELL: Let's listen to what Vladimir Putin said about Donald Trump when he was asked if he had any compromising information on Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PUTIN (through translator): After all, I was an intelligence officer myself. And I do know how dossiers are made up. Yes, I did heard this rumors that we allegedly collected compromising material n Mr. Trump when he was visiting Moscow. Well, distinguished colleague, let me tell you this. When President Trump was in Moscow back then, I didn't even know that he was in Moscow. Please just disregard those issues and don't think about this anymore again.
TRUMP: And I have to say, if they had it, it would have been out long ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'DONNELL: David Corn, Vladimir Putin says when President Trump was in Moscow back then, I didn't even know he was in Moscow.
DAVID CORN, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, MOTHER JONES: You know, this whole day has been amazing. I don't know if Trump is a puppet, a dupe or a useful idiot or maybe of all three.
But you know, the whole issue of Putin not knowing Trump was in Moscow. Well, in the book I did with Mike Isikof, "Russian Roulette," we report that Trump was trying to get a meeting with Putin all through his time in Moscow back in November 2013. And he was in contact with Dimitri Pskov who is Putin's right hand man and chief spokesperson who he said they were trying to work it out but there was a scheduling issue at the very end of the time and it couldn't happen. But Putin then even sent Trump a gift later, small little black box with a sealed letter inside from Putin that we have never known. We have never been told what that letter to Trump said.
So why Putin would get out there and say, I didn't even know he was there when there was plenty of media coverage. Putin sent a high level emissary to the event. It is just another reason why you can't trust when he says that or you can't trust him when he says, listen, please disregard. Nothing to see about any information on Trump.
No. I mean, of course there is information on Trump that they have collected on Trump who has been going to Russia for almost 30 years now.
O'DONNELL: And Malcolm Nance, to this intelligence strategic issue where Donald Trump said if they had it would have been out long ago?
NANCE: That's a Donald Trump ploy that he always uses, right, where he tries to get ahead of an issue.
Look. Spies don't operate that way. Vladimir Putin, the KGB, they have never operated that way. The whole purpose of compromise is to use it as a sword of (INAUDIBLE) that is hanging over your head so that you are always in compliance. The third letter of the four letter acronym on how they recruit agents MICE, is always cooption or coercion. And if you don't go along with them, they have the ability to remind you.
You just realized just recently, (INAUDIBLE), the son of one of the Russian oligarchs who put together Ms. Universe put out a music video which sort of makes fun of the whole tape issue in Moscow. I actually think that was a message to Donald Trump.
O'DONNELL: Malcolm and David, thank you for helping us work our way through this amazing historic day. Really appreciate it.
When we come back, the justice department today chose today, today of all days, to arrest and charge another Russian. This time a Russian woman acting as an illegally -- as a Russian agent in the United States and she also wants publically asked Donald Trump a question during the Presidential campaign.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'DONNELL: On the same day that Donald Trump was publically accepting what he called Vladimir Putin's strong denial that Russia interfered if our Presidential election and continues to interfere in our politics, another Russian was indicted in Washington today for interfering in our politics, specifically conspiracy to act as an agent of a foreign government.
Here is that agent of a foreign government in action during the Presidential campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA BUTINA, RUSSIAN AGENT: If you would be elected as President, what would be your foreign politic especially in your relationships with my country? And do you want to continue the politics of sanctions (INAUDIBLE) economy or do you have any other ideas?
TRUMP: I know Putin. I'll tell you what, we get along with Putin. Putin has no respect for President Obama. Big problem. Big problem.
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O'DONNELL: That was Maria Butina who appeared in federal court today in Washington in an arraignment on her indictment, an indictment which says that Maria Butina and an unnamed Russian official quote "took steps to develop relationships with American politicians in order to establish private or as she called them back channel lines of communications. These lines could be used by the Russian federation to penetrate U.S. national decision-making apparatus to advance the agenda of the Russian federation.
The FBI say that Butina worked at the direction of an unnamed high level official in the Russian government. And after a break, we will consider the timing of this indictment today, which does not seem to be just a coincidence and why this indictment was not brought by Robert Mueller and how it fits into this day in the history of American and Russian relations?
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O'DONNELL: An FBI affidavit released today in the case accused Russian agent Maria Butina who was indicted today quotes her communication with an unnamed American political operative describing a group of Russians attending a meeting in Washington. People in the list are handpicked and are very influential in Russia. They are coming to establish a back channel of communication.
Joining our discussion now, Joyce Vance, a former federal prosecutor and an MSNBC legal analyst and David Corn is still with us.
Joyce, what is your reading of this indictment today? And why was Robert Mueller not involved in this indictment, do you think?
JOYCE VANCE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: So, she was actually charged by a complaint, which is a little bit difference than an indictment but still requires a probable cause showing. And the reason it's with the U.S. attorney and the District of Columbia could be that it is completely unrelated to the Mueller investigation or perhaps it is for convenience, much like the Cohen investigation is sitting with southern district of New York instead with Mueller.
O'DONNELL: And David, this could conceivably make it more complicated for the President to interfere with this part of the investigation given that these investigations are now are spread out across a few different federal prosecutors' offices.
But here it is on this historic day in the Trump administration history, they certainly knew in Washington, D.C. in the justice department what the President was doing today. They didn't wait until tomorrow to do this.
CORN: No, they didn't. And Robert Mueller didn't wait until next week to indict the 12 Russian military intelligence official that he indicted on Friday.
Now, we don't -- we have a political bent. We look at these things that way. There well could be other reasons. One, my reporting showed that one reason they wanted to arrest her sooner than later is that it seems he was finishing up her graduate studies in American University here in Washington D.C. And they were some thinking that maybe she would leave the country, in case it would be hard to arrest here.
But to me, the most interesting thing in the whole affidavit that was submitted is there is a line in the first page from the FBI agent in-charge of the case who says this affidavit is only a partial rendition of the information I have in this investigation. Just enough to show probable cause. So there may be a lot more about the connections between the NRA and these Russians and other conservative groups like CPAP who Maria Butina for years has been associating with.
O'DONNELL: Yes. She was heavily involved with the National Rifle Associational.
I want to listen to something that Donald Trump just said to Sean Hannity in the last hour about Vladimir Putin being strong. Let's listen to this.
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TRUMP: I guess he said as strongly as he can say it, they have no information on Trump. And one thing you know, if they had it, it would be out. I thought that President Putin was very, very strong.
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O'DONNELL: Joyce Vance, Donald Trump seems to be easily impressed, I guess with, what, tone of voice? I'm not sure what.
VANCE: Yes. It's hard to know what it is that impresses him. He is clearly more impressed with Putin than one would expect. But he is even more impressed with Bob Mueller one would think since he was willing to sit down with Putin, but still hasn't shown any willingness to sit down and have a one-on-one interview with Robert Mueller.
O'DONNELL: David, as the President is meeting with Vladimir Putin today, these prosecutors, the wheels are still turning. Donald Trump knows that. And that every day, there could be another revelation. And this was just today's revelation.
CORN: You know, it's one of my least favorite cliches that you only see the tip of the iceberg and 90 percent is below the water. I think that's true with Mueller's investigation. I think there is still a lot to come that we he have no clue of. And we don't know when it's going happen. And it just gets progressively worse for Trump.
And today was a clarifying moment. That press conference showed the world nothing that he hasn't said before but that he is enthralled by Putin. There's something going on between the two of them and he is scared. He is scared of the Mueller probe and it's not going get, I think, any better for him.
O'DONNELL: Joyce Vance and David Corn, thank you both for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it.
CORN: Thank you, Lawrence.
O'DONNELL: Tonight's LAST WORD is next.
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O'DONNELL: Today John McCain said President Trump proved not only unable but unwilling to stand up to Putin. Here is what it looks like when you stand up to Vladimir Putin.
There is one of the members of pussy riot yesterday in Moscow with Vladimir Putin watching as they protested at the world cup. Vladimir Putin looking down and watching that arrest take place. That is what happens when you stand up to Vladimir Putin in Moscow.
That is tonight's LAST WORD.
The 11TH HOUR WITH BRIAN WILLIAMS starts now.
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