Summary
President Trump goes all in on racism and xenophobia. Trump says, Democratic Representative Omar telling us how to run our country. Trump in 2016, I don't know anything about David Duke. Trump says, I don't know who the Proud Boys are. Contrary to Donald Trump's claims, the economy is not roaring back to life; more than 800,000 Americans filed first-time claims for unemployment benefits last week.
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: As always, thanks for watching THE BEAT with Ari Melber. We'll see you tomorrow at 6:00 P.M. Eastern. THE REIDOUT, with Joy Reid starts now.
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Well, at this point, Donald Trump's message is no longer anything about politics. It's just straight shot, no chaser, straight to the veins racism. And since he clearly can't actually denounce white supremacy, he has gone full demagogue, throwing in some xenophobia for good measure.
Last night Trump launched an attack on two of his favorite targets, his opponent, Joe Biden, and Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, an American citizen who came to the United States as a refugee from Somalia as a little kid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Another massive issue from Minnesota as the election of Joe Biden's plan to inundate your state with a historic flood of refugees.
What is going on with Omar? I've been reading these reports for two years about how corrupt and crooked she is.
How the hell -- then she tells us how to run our country. Can you believe it?
Biden will turn Minnesota into a refugee camp.
It's a disgrace what they have done to your state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Did I mention that she is a United States Congresswoman and telling us to run our country? Now, that sounds familiar somehow. You might be remembering 1968 George Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE WALLACE (I) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president of the United States, you could walk on the streets and any section of Washington, D.C., at any time, and I would make that possible if I had to bring 30,000 troops to Washington and put one every 30 feet with two-foot bayonet on the end of the.
When has it come to have racial overtones in this country to stand for law and order?
But the so-called civil rights legislation has really been an imposition on the property ownership system, the free enterprise system and local government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: It's almost like a mirror image.
Trump whipped up the crowd into racist frenzy in his latest COVID rally after refusing to denounce the violent nationalistic, Islamophobic Proud Boys. And by couching it in xenophobic and states' rights terms, it's actually the same argument that Wallace and later KKK and leader David Duke ran on and lost.
And don't take it from me, Duke himself acknowledge back in 2016 that Donald Trump adopted his message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID DUKE, WHITE SUPREMACIST: Everything that I made my chief campaign issues is now adopted by Trump.
Running against Donald Trump at this point is really treason to your heritage.
Donald Trump, we hope you keep all your promises. You've spoken like no other candidate in recent history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Did you get that? That's David Duke saying Donald Trump adopted his message, period. That's it.
Now, when called upon to denounce David Duke and repudiate his support back in 2016, here is how Trump handled that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: No, I don't think about David Duke, OK. I don't know anything about what you're even talk about with white supremacy or white supremacists. And so you're asking me a question that I'm supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you see as the biggest problem with the reform party now?
TRUMP: Well, you've got David Duke, just joined, a bigot, a racist, a problem. I mean, this is not exactly the people you want in your party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Surprise, video. Now that's sounds familiar, it's because you also heard it yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't know who the Proud Boys are. I mean, you'll have to give me a definition because I really don't know who they are. I can only say they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Oh, they are the people with your slogan as their logo, that's who they are.
Donald Trump's inability to denounce white supremacy has been met with tepid criticism from much of the Republican Party. They're clearly afraid that it will drag down the party's election hopes but not afraid enough to stand up to Boss Man Trump, who not only refuses to denounces white supremacy, his White House crew won't either.
Today, his press secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, wouldn't do it, a fact that frustrated even Fox News Reporter John Roberts, who asked her about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS REPORTER: It's a question that needs to be asked. And, clearly, the president's Republican colleagues a mile away from here are looking for an answer for it too. So stop deflecting, stop blaming the media. I'm tired of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Because, really, how hard is it to denounce white supremacy if you're not a white supremacist?
I'm joined now by Charlie Sykes, Editor-At-Large to Bulwark, Renee Graham, Opinion Columnist and Associate Editor of the Boston Globe, and the Reverend Al Sharpton, President of the National Action Network Host, of POLITICSNATION on MSNBC and Author of the great new book, Rise Up, Confronting a Country at the Crossroads.
Reverend, I'm going to start with you. You've known Donald Trump for a very long time. We showed you the before and after clip where he pretended that he had no idea who David Duke was. But back in the day, he was like, I can't join the reform party because dot, dot, dot, David Duke. Is this performative, in your view, this open George Wallace-style racism that Donald Trump is doing now or is this just the real him and everything before was just phony?
REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Clearly, it's the real him. He has been given every opportunity to denounce white supremacy from Charlottesville when he said there, well, fine people on both sides. And when you're talking about people that were marching with torches saying, the Jews will not replace us and he said they are fine people.
I mean, all throughout his presidency, I never thought I would live to do it but I'll quote David Duke. He said that he is representing everything that we believe in, and I hope he keeps his promises. Duke said that, Duke who you just played the tape that Donald Trump was well aware of, even though he denied it later, said he wasn't going to join the reform party because David Duke was a racist, but all of a sudden he was somebody he didn't know.
You are looking at a man that the other night when he -- during the debate, when he was universally attacked for not attacking the proud boys and not attacking and outright saying he was against outright supremacy. And he said, guess what, I'm not only a racist, look at this, I'll do some xenophobia for you. Will that make you feel better? He doubled down. That's who he is. That's who is the president. And he is saying the voters to vote for me is so endorse that kind of bigotry and bias.
REID: And just to double up on what, Reverend Sharpton is saying, let me play the full exchange. This is the exchange John Roberts had with Kayleigh McEnany today. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Yesterday, he was pointblank asked, do you denounce white supremacy, and he said I've always denounced any form of that.
He has condemn white supremacy more than any president in modern history.
ROBERTS: Just to clear it up this morning, can you, naming it, make a declarative statement that the president denounces it?
MCENANY: I just did. The president has denounced this repeatedly.
ROBERTS: You read quotes from the past.
MCENANY: The president was asked this. You're making, you're contriving a storyline and a narrative.
ROBERTS: No. I'm not. I'm just asking you to put this to rest.
MCENANY: He said -- I just did. I read you all of the quotes.
ROBERTS: You read the half quotes, can you do it further?
MCENANY: And if you need to see that in writing, I would put that in an email.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: You know, Charlie, what makes this -- what makes it clear that what Reverend Sharpton is saying is true, that this is just who Trump is, that it isn't some sort of strategery, is that it's actually is the opposite of working. It's not working.
Here is -- thanks to the great Steve Kornacki, we have some numbers on where Trump is slipping. He already didn't have black voters, a very few black voters and brown numbers that want anything to do with him. There is a small number, but not a lot. He's slipping among white voters. White college-educated voters went for Clinton by seven, they're going for Biden by 17. He's added 10 points, Joe Biden has. They say from his basement. But, apparently, wherever he is white voters are preferring him, white college educated voters.
And even white non-educated voters, who are overwhelmingly Trumpees. By 33 points, they were for Trump in 2016. Look at this, that's cut down to 24 points. It means that even among Trump's hardcore base, white non-educated voters, there are people who are waking up out of the fog and saying, I don't like him. Maybe it's COVID, or whatever it is. So it's not working electorally.
CHARLIE SYKES, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, BULWARK: No, but it also shows the contempt he has for his own base that he thinks this sort of things will work. And, look, this is actually not that complicated, because Donald Trump does not have a hard time being clear when he wants to be, right?
When he wants to denounce Mexicans or Muslims or protesters or NFL players who take a knee or Nancy Pelosi or the media or Joe Scarborough, or, you know, the Mueller investigation, he doesn't have any trouble expressing himself or making it crystal clear what he thinks.
The only time he gets tongue-tied is when it comes to, say, Russia and white supremacists. Now, maybe he thinks that because they support him so much that he can't break with them because this is part of his base. But, you know, this song and dance that we're doing here, and this is a replay of what happened in Charlottesville where he'll throw out sort of a boilerplate denunciation. He said sure the other night. But this is Donald Trump, who seldom lacks for words when he feels strongly about something.
So the media is the enemy of the people, but when it comes to the Proud Boys, when it comes to David Duke, he finds himself strangely reticent. And I think that people will have to see through that.
REID: Yes. And, I mean, he does and it's the actions on top of it. I mean, he's going through and eradicating the word, intersectionality, out of federal government. He sent -- this memo went out for the Trump administration, this edict you can't talk about -- you can't talk about racism, that's wrong. They are acting on it. So it's white supremacists through the whole mix.
I'm so glad that you're here, Renee Graham. I've seen you on other shows and (INAUDIBLE) to being to talk with you. So thank you very much for being here.
I want to show you a piece of video. Because you know, it's also not -- Donald Trump saying silly things is one thing but it's theater until somebody actually does something, right? I want to show you what the Proud Boys were up to. This is in 2018.
Let me first show you what Nancy Pelosi -- Speaker Pelosi faced these Proud Boys that love Donald Trump, the sort of hipster, Proud Boy guys. Here she is today talking about it.
We may not have the video, I'll read you what she said. She said, they came and pounded the doors. And they shook -- they scared us. I think she said. We sign up for this. These people don't, scaring everyone. And they had DeSantis on. This was back in 2018.
They were tasked by the Florida Republican Party to come and disrupt that meeting, which they did, in a violent way. Let's show a picture of it, I think we have video of it. And this was harassment of the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, by a group of these proud boys at the Broward polling locations. Let's play that video, right now. This is the harassment that took place.
OK. So I don't know that we have the video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have Nancy Pelosi right here. Look at this piece of (BLEEP) right here. Look at this (BLEEP) right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, open up. It's the Proud Boys in here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: There were actual three members of Congress, all women, who were harassed and shouted down by those guys. There are other photos of it. We're going show some still photos of it as well while I ask you for the connection between the call and the response and how much risk does Donald Trump put the rest of us in.
RENEE GRAHAM, OPINION COLUMNIST AND ASSOCIATE EDITOR, BOSTON GLOBE: I mean, I think he puts us all at risk. You know, the problem is Trump will never unequivocally condemn white supremacists because they are among some of his most ardent supporters.
So, really, at this point in the campaign, we're talking about a month from Election Day, he is willing to do anything that creates dissension, distraction, violence. You know, he would no more denounce white supremacist because it would be tantamount to denouncing himself.
And let's be clear. Donald Trump's racism has been on display throughout his entire public life. We're talking about going back 40, 50 years. And the issue is even if -- even the off chance that he actually decided to deliver real condemnation of white supremacists or white supremacy, would you believe him?
To paraphrase a quote by James Baldwin, well I don't believe what Trump says, because I see what he does. And he is always supported white supremacists. He was endorsed for David Duke. He was banked by white supremacist after not calling them out when Heather Heyer was murdered in Charlottesville. You know, this is who he is. He can pretend he doesn't know who the Proud Boys are but, of course he knows. But we're still -- they know who what he, who he is and may know what he wants.
REID: Yes. And, I guess, Reverend Sharpton, the question is, I mean, we've had racist presidents, Woodrow Wilson and Andrew Johnson. We could go on through on the tapes of Richard Nixon show a lot of the N- word dropping, or, you know, there have been racist presidents. What is the difference in degree with this one, in your mind?
SHARPTON: He is unapologetically touting that racists have a place and that they have the ear of this president. And we can say that maybe it's because they are supporters and he doesn't want to throw supporters under the bus. He has thrown his former attorney, his former aides under the bus. He lies about things. He won't even lie and say he's against white supremacy because there's something deep down inside of him that he cannot denounce this.
If you're not talking about a guy that always shoots straight, Donald Trump will say anything that helps Donald Trump unless there's something deep inside that is going to be violated by saying that. And there's something deep inside of him that he will not denounce white supremacy and he will not denounce those bigots and racists. And you can only conclude is that he knows deep down he believes them to be acting in a way that expresses who he really is and how he feels.
REID: Yes. And, you know, Charlie, Rev and you and myself are radio people. So you talk -- you have a long history of talking to folks on the radio. What percentage of white voters can stomach this, in your view? I mean, when you just talk, are there white voters who are like, I can stomach it as long as I like my 401(k), but at what point do some of these white voters just say it's too much, I don't want to be associated? I just wonder where that line is and how much more support could he lose.
SYKES: Well, I think that one of the disillusioning things we've discovered over the last four or five years is that a lot of people are willing, a lot of a voters are going to tolerate it. But there is a line there. And when it becomes so in your face, so, for example, when he started making the play for suburban -- white suburban housewives, they needed to vote for him, otherwise Cory Booker was going to come to your community. I think, well, whoa, the least scary figure you could have come up with but it's the unsubtlety of it.
So I do think that there's a certain vulgarity that turns people off. But also I think that there's something else here, is that he's calling for not just white supremacists but he is calling for the sort of the thuggish militia element of that. And we put it in context of other things that are happening, including saying that he wants people to show up on Election Day, that he might mobilize them if he thinks that the election was stolen.
This is where it becomes scary. Because I keep asking the easiest thing in the world is for him to denounce the Proud Boys. This is easy. That in every Republican is going why you are putting us in this position. Well, Donald Trump not only perhaps supports them and knows they support him, but I think he wants to use them.
REID: Yes.
SYKES: He wants to keep them revved up for something.
And I have to say that with every passing day, particularly after that debate the other night, I think people ought to be legitimately concerned about what this president is stoking, how much kerosene he's willing to throw on this fire and the role of people like the Proud Boys and other folks that come into states like mine in Kenosha with guns and end up killing people. I mean, this thing is no longer just theoretical, I mean, just seeing it here in Wisconsin.
REID: Absolutely. That is -- I'll give you the last word on this, Ms. Graham, because that is the thing that we have to worry about, that Donald Trump isn't running for president anymore. He just wants to thug it out and try to thug his way into staying in power. And now, he's got what he thinks is a little army that he thinks can show up and fight to keep him in power even when he loses.
GRAHAM: Well, think of how of this presidency -- he used to speak of my generals and my military. Now, he has his military. Now, he has his army who are ready to do his bidding. You know, this isn't a joke anymore. And we know that there's nothing Donald Trump won't try if he believes it will help keep him in office or create enough disarray that he can disrupt the election.
So, you know, concern people have about the Proud Boys, but whatever -- and let's don't call them militias, because militias sounds way too heroic. These are vigilantes. So, Donald Trump is determined to do whatever he needs to do to disrupt America. And if he has to do that in the bloodiest way possible, he will do it.
REID: Absolutely. And that is why voters are the bravest people out there right now. Don't let that fear stop you. Vote despite what they are trying to do.
Charlie Sykes, Renee Graham, Reverend Al Sharpton, thank you all very much.
And up next on THE REIDOUT, the biggest threat to the election turns out it isn't Russia or COVID, the danger is Donald Trump's himself, using all the levers of presidential power to circumvent the will of the people.
And how soon until more people die of COVID as a direct result of a Trump rally? He has two super-spreader events coming up in Wisconsin despite a major surge there.
And check this out. Kayleigh McEnany today casually inflating the resume of the Supreme Court nominee before getting called out by a reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCENANY: Judge Barrett is extremely well qualified. She graduated Summa Cum Laude from Notre Dame Law School, and she also is a Rhodes scholar.
REPORTER: And you said Judge Barrett was a Rhodes scholar, I'm not sure if that's true.
MCENANY: That's what I have written in here.
REPORTER: She attended Rhodes College.
MCENANY: She attended Rhodes College. So, my bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Rhode scholar, Rhode College, potato, potato, back with more of THE REDOUT after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully, because that's what has to happen. I am urging them to do it.
I am urging my people. I hope it's going to be a fair election. If it's a fair election...
CHRIS WALLACE, MODERATOR: You're urging them what?
TRUMP: ... I am 100 percent on board. But if I see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, I can't go along with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Well, what sure sounded like a call for voter intimidation, on a prime-time debate stage, no less, isn't just prompting response from Trump supporters at home.
Per "The New York Times," American intelligence and homeland security are worried Trump's rant about a fraudulent vote is a signal to outside powers, too, in particular -- you guessed it -- Russia.
Joining me is Peter Strzok, former FBI agent and author of the new book "Compromised: Counterintelligence and the Threat of Donald Trump."
And I'm really grateful to be able to talk to you today, Mr. Strzok. I have been following the news about what you have gone through with this administration.
I think it is fair to say that you are familiar with Donald Trump's thuggery, that he has a thuggish demeanor in the way that he goes about treating people. I can't think of another term to describe it. I won't put that on you. I'll just put that on myself.
But now what we're seeing is that all the chaos that he's creating turns out to be yet another gift, apparently, to Vladimir Putin. H.R. McMaster, who was a national security adviser to Donald Trump, did an interview earlier this week with my colleague Hallie Jackson, and said that Russia in the end doesn't really care who wins.
They just want chaos. They want us to not trust the election. They want us to be fighting about race and fighting in the streets. And Trump is giving that to them.
Can you think of any reason why an American president loyal to this country would want that?
PETER STRZOK, FORMER FBI COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AGENT: None.
And so, Joy, thanks for having me.
I mean, it's very clear that Trump's actions are specific, they're deliberate, and they're calculated to do exactly what they -- what their impact is. And that is to either get people to stay silent, or, through Trump's silence, to encourage continued behavior.
As you pointed out, Russia is actively engaged right now in trying to reelect Trump. And that's something that's been said by the current director of the FBI. That's something that's been said by the folks within the Director of National Intelligence.
So, on the one hand, you see his attempts to stifle any dissent. On the other hand, you see absolute silence when it comes to outside hostile powers who are actively interfering in our election.
REID: And I guess the question is, is Donald Trump's actions -- are Donald Trump's actions -- are Donald Trump's actions toward Russia that seem to aid and abet Russia and aid and abet them interfering in the election, are they just nakedly in pursuit of reelection?
Is this just because, well, that's another one of my supporters, so just like white nationalists, they support me, I support them? Or did you detect, as you were looking at what Donald Trump was doing, that there's something more to it? Is this a loyalty to Russia, in your view, and that he wants to put their aims forward, and that his own reelection is part of that?
Or do you think that he just wants the chaos for his own personal reelection?
STRZOK: I think there are a host of factors.
I mean, look, first and foremost, he wants to get reelected. I don't think there's any doubt that he would -- there's literally nothing that he would not do to try and regain the election.
But I do think there are a host of things that -- within him and his personality and his financial holdings, that aren't known, that are known to Russia, and that give Russia leverage over him.
And you can see that. I mean, he is self-interested in the results of the election. What he is not interested in, one way or the other, when it comes to him is the fate of our troops in Afghanistan who have bounties placed on their heads by the Russians. What he has no personal stake in are the lives of American soldiers in Syria who are rammed by Russians, and there's absolutely no response out of the White House.
So, certainly, when it comes to the election, he's got a personal interest, but yet there are all these other things, interestingly enough, so many which relate to Russia, that don't have any bearing on Donald Trump the man, but absolutely point to some other sort of leverage that I believe is held by the Russians over him.
REID: Yes, that is the thing that's weird. He takes on Russia's view of the Afghan war. He takes on their view of Montenegro, just random stuff.
And he's not, like, exactly a historian. He doesn't seem to know that much about American history. But he just takes on their view, even this attack on mail-in voting.
Adam Schiff, who runs the House Intel Committee, who chairs the House Intel Committee, he is now raising the concerns that it is also Russian disinformation to go after mail-in voting. Even that is Russian memes flowing into our election.
So, it is strange.
Let me also play you John Brennan, the former CIA director. And he talks about when he first met Donald Trump. Here he is.
Oh, it's an article. OK, I'm going to read it.
So he says: "Donald Trump showed no intellectual curiosity about what Russia had done and how it carried out its campaign to interfere in the election." This is -- he met him when he was just the president-elect. And he left that meeting with "a dark feeling that our country was entering what would be a very painful and dangerous chapter of its history," as if he wasn't 100 percent sure Donald Trump was a lot more loyal to this country than to Russia.
Do you have a sense that Donald Trump is loyal to the United States?
STRZOK: Well, I think it's certainly in question.
I mean, what Director Brennan said there, I think, was shared by many of us within the intelligence community, and the counterintelligence folks as well looking at his behaviors as he entered his presidency, and nothing has happened to make those concerns better.
REID: Yes.
STRZOK: In fact, they have gotten worse.
So, I do think that he is subject to outside forces that are held by Russia, and that those caused him to place his interests ahead of those of the nation.
REID: Let me ask you something that is more about domestic politics.
Since you do have that good law enforced background, I want to talk about this for a second. I know you're counterintel.
But federal law enforcement officials reportedly were directed to make public pronouncements sympathetic to Kyle Rittenhouse. That's the 17-year-old who's accused of shooting to protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
We don't know -- I have to say, NBC News has not confirmed whether these were actually done, whether these pronouncements were actually made. But just the fact that there was some sort of directive, these specific talking points were put out that were favorable to Kyle Rittenhouse, have you ever seen anything like that in your time working in government?
STRZOK: Joy, never. Over 20 years as an FBI agent, I work 100, if not hundreds of cases involving people that were arrested and pending trial.
And never once was I given talking points or encouraged to talk one way or the other. That's concerning for two reasons. Justice has to be by.
Law enforcement officers certainly of any rank anywhere in the system don't go making comments positively or negatively about somebody who's been charged with a crime. Justice is administered blindly, or it should be, because DHS has all these agents who rely on their appearance of objectivity when they go about doing their investigations, just like all federal law enforcement officers.
The second thing that's concerning about some of those talking points -- and I haven't read them -- I'm going off the media reporting that you have seen -- is this -- kind of the statements that he was responding to, protect small business owners.
That could be read very much as encouraging a sort of vigilante justice. I know one of your earlier folks who was speaking used that term. And I think that's exactly right.
And that sort of undertone or undercurrent of encouraging people to take up the law in their own hands is extraordinarily dangerous. I have worked with hundreds of local law enforcement departments all around this nation. They do their job well. They keep the peace well.
They don't need folks taking up arms and trying to do one thing or another to maintain the peace. And having talking points that encourages something other than that is extraordinarily dangerous.
REID: I want to thank you, Peter Strzok, for coming forward.
Not too many people have. And thank you. I appreciate you doing that. I think you're very brave to do so. And I hope that you do very well with your book.
It's called "Compromised: Counterintelligence and the Threat of Donald J. Trump."
I hope people will support you. Thank you, sir.
STRZOK: Great. Joy, thanks so much.
REID: Thank you.
And still ahead: Wisconsin's chief medical officer joins me on the COVID surge that is stressing hospital capacity there.
And guess who's holding super-spreader rallies there this weekend?
THE REIDOUT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Wisconsin is now the epicenter of a major Midwest surge of the coronavirus.
State health officials announced a record number of nearly 3,000 new cases and 21 more deaths today. This came after the state set a grim record, with 27 deaths yesterday. Only about 20 percent of the state's hospitals and ICU beds are now free.
Some Wisconsin hospitals are resorting to wait-listing patients or sending patients to other facilities. State health officials on Tuesday also acknowledged that Wisconsin is closer than ever to opening a state-run field hospital due to the surge in cases, even as they stressed they still hope the overflow facilities won't be needed.
Governor Tony Evers has been dogged by state Republicans, who have limited his ability to deploy an effective mitigation strategy. And Donald Trump is set to host two events in the state this weekend, despite his own task force's warning that certain parts of the state are in red zones, which represent the highest level of concern for community spread.
For the latest, I'm joined by Dr. Ryan Westergaard, chief medical officer and state epidemiologist for communicable diseases for the Wisconsin Department of Health Services.
On a scale of one to 10, 10 being catastrophically bad, and one being it'll be all right, where do you place the idea of having two rallies in Wisconsin this weekend?
DR. RYAN WESTERGAARD, WISCONSIN STATE EPIDEMIOLOGIST: That's a great question.
It's a scale I'm not familiar with as a scientist, but I would say that it's risky, very risky, to have gatherings of any size in an environment where we have high levels of community spread. The larger the gathering, the riskier it is.
And these -- the risk associated with gatherings can be lowered somewhat by face masks and social distancing, but they're imperfect. So, I think our recommendation has pretty consistently been to avoid gatherings of any significant size in Wisconsin at this time.
REID: Have you been able to sort of understand how this happened and sort of what was the source of this level of accumulated cases in the state?
WESTERGAARD: It did seem to take off rather abruptly at the beginning of September.
And the first signal we saw that we were going in clearly the wrong direction was an increase in cases among adults, young adults and adolescents, particularly ages 18 to 24. We also saw this in our larger and medium-sized cities that had college campuses.
So, initially, it seemed to be driven by that population. Since that time, however, the level of cases, the number of new cases among that age group has gone down. It's gone up in every other age group.
So, whatever the cause of the initial surge, it's now spreading quite widespread in a generalized fashion. And, really, the entire state is at a high level of spread.
REID: And, obviously, this is -- the concern is just for the health of human beings in this case, but there's also an election going on.
So, how would it add to the risk if people are nervous about putting their votes in the mail because of the way the post office has been just -- has been depleted and decide, you know what, I got to show up? How much risk is involved with this election happening?
WESTERGAARD: You know, we had to -- we had to address that issue quite a lot in the spring. We had a spring election. And there was a quite a bit of anxiety around voting in-person.
I think, for the most part, the polling places were kept pretty safe. A lot of preparations were under way. But it adds a significant amount of anxiety about getting out in public when transmission is this high.
REID: Yes, and very last question.
The governor of Wisconsin, Tony Evers, did want to have a mask order, but the Supreme Court overturned it, and basically said that he -- it said it exceeded his authority, and, therefore, he couldn't have it.
Do you think a mask order might have prevented Wisconsin from being where it is right now?
WESTERGAARD: Well, we do have a mask -- a statewide mask order right now.
The thing that was overturned was a stay-at-home order...
REID: OK.
WESTERGAARD: ... which, at this time in the epidemic, is probably the thing that we need.
So, right now, the ability of people to gather in significant numbers really adds fuel to the fire. So, a stay-at-home order or just broad agreement that everyone's staying home and keeping gatherings as small as possible is really how we're going to turn the corner.
But it's a big challenge.
REID: Yes.
Dr. Westergaard, thank you very much. I really appreciate your time. Stay safe. Really appreciate you.
WESTERGAARD: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
REID: Thank you.
And a new study, meanwhile, out of Cornell University found that Donald Trump is the single largest driver of misinformation about COVID.
Sarah Evanega, the study's lead author and the director of the Alliance -- the Cornell Alliance for Science, joins me now.
That's pretty stunning, for the president of the United States to be deemed the chief spreader of misinformation about COVID. Could you just walk us through your study of it?
SARAH EVANEGA, ALLIANCE FOR SCIENCE DIRECTOR, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: Yes, thanks so much for having me on, Joy. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about our study.
So, we basically are an Alliance for Science. We're a communications initiative that looks at a lot of science issues and the way that disinformation and misinformation affects different science issues.
I think we're most well-known for our work on GMOs and other biotechnologies.
But, in March, when we were really wrestling with how to deal with the pandemic, we decided to apply those tools and look at the misinformation landscape around COVID-19. So, we looked at 38 million articles in the English language media that essentially have -- that are talking about COVID-19.
And within that set of media, 1.1 million articles have some relationship with misinformation and COVID-19.
And so, we go and drill down and look at what those subcategories are, we see some interesting themes. We found that there is this sort of bucket of conspiracy theories that we all heard about over the last few months, whether you're talking about bath soap or 5G, but the really big sort of conspiracy theory bucket is around miracle cures. And you'll remember, there were conspiracy theories around hydroxychloroquine, around UV and also around disinfectants.
And so, that's the biggest pool out there. And that bucket of information it turns had a relationship with coverage of the president of the United States.
REID: Yes.
EVANEGA: Thirty-eight percent of the COVID misinformation coverage was in association with that name.
REID: And is it that the people who listen to Donald Trump and take that in, right, are just taking unsafe behaviors, or that they are becoming the source of spread because they are not protecting themselves?
EVANEGA: Certainly, I mean, we do look to our leadership to provide guidance and science-based information in a time of a pandemic, if not all the time. So I think it is really important that we have sources of good science-based information guiding us in everything that we do, just as your last guest so wisely did.
REID: Yes. A scary time when the president of the United States is the biggest source of misinformation about a pandemic. Pretty scary thing.
Thank you very much for being here. Really appreciate it. Sarah Evanega, thank you.
And up next, economic fallout from this pandemic is really getting worse. But Donald Trump doesn't care, as long as his name is added to the relief check.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Because of the pandemic, tens of millions of Americans face hardship, whether it's losing a job or facing eviction or not being able to put food on the table. The USDA says that it has distributed more than 100 million boxes of surplus food for families in need since May. According to "Politico", those boxes now have a little something extra included, a letter from Donald Trump claiming credit.
Yes, it's disgusting, but not all surprising, that Trump is using this to try to win votes a month before an election where by all counts he's losing. Remember, he's done this before, like the time when Congress actually did its job and provided stimulus checks for Americans, Trump demanded those stimulus checks sent out earlier this year include his giant magic marker signature, the first time the president's name has appeared on any IRS payments whether refund checks or other stimulus checks that have been mailed during past economic crisis.
And just recently, Trump's government took $300 million of your tax dollars to create a celeb-based ad campaign to, quote, boost confidence in the president's response to the pandemic. However, fewer celebrities agreed to take part. Surprise, surprise.
And while Donald Trump is using the power of the presidency to try to convince people to be thankful for the job he's done, remember this. The main reason that millions of Americans are facing such dire circumstances is Trump's negligent mismanagement of the COVID pandemic.
This week, close to 1 million more Americans were added to the unemployment roles while Congress has not agreed on a deal for a new relief package. And that is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Contrary to Donald Trump's claims, the economy is not roaring back to life. More than 800,000 Americans filed first-time claims for unemployment benefits last week.
That number remains seven times higher than it was before the pandemic and those numbers could continue to grow. Disney announced it will be laying off 28,000 workers. Insurer Allstate is cutting 3,800 jobs, nearly 8 percent of its workforce.
And as many as 50,000 airline workers could be out of a job starting today if Congress fails to reach a new relief deal that extends aid to the industry. It is well past the close of business and Mitch McConnell isn't even participating in the negotiations.
Joining me now is David Corn, Washington bureau chief for "Mother Jones".
And, David, the idea that the Senate can rush back to try to jam through a new Supreme Court justice, they just got to get back. They can't get back fast enough. But Mitch McConnell can't be bothered to negotiate, to even help out on a stimulus bill.
Let me show you what the difference is. He's left it to Mnuchin and the Democrats. And so, here's what they're looking at. Here's the difference in the bills.
They want to give a lot less money total, a lot less money for state and local. They want to give a lot less money to ordinary, hard working people who have lost their jobs and are unemployed. They want to give less money for education, even though they're forcing schools back in, and Donald Trump is demanding schools go back. The only thing they're even on is testing.
Let me play for you Donald Trump back in August about where he even thinks a relief bill is important. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Will something happen? Possibly. But I want to tell you the country is going very well right now. We can live very happily with it, without it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: OK. So, he doesn't care. Mitch McConnell says, oh, I'm wishing them well, as far as Mnuchin and Pelosi. We're trying to reportedly to get a bill, blah, blah. They don't care.
DAVID CORN, MOTHER JONES WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: They don't. And all you have to do is remember. I know people don't want to.
But think back to Tuesday night and the debate. How many times did Donald Trump talk about all he's doing to get new economic relief to people as we see these tremendous layoffs hitting the airlines industry and Disney and we see jobless claims going up? How many times did Trump talk about the economic pain caused by the pandemic and everything he's doing? How many times has he interrupted his visits to his golf courses because he's working day and night to make sure there's relief to people and there's assistance to schools, and that we get that $75 billion coronavirus testing program.
And, you know, you talk about Mitch McConnell. You saw the difference there, $1.6 trillion versus $2.2 trillion. Mitch McConnell and Republicans in the Senate, they're about a third of what Mnuchin is offering. So they're not bothering to put anything on the table that's within the realm of these negotiations.
So we don't see this as a high priority within the White House. The Democrats have come down from the $3.4 trillion that they passed. They passed a bill back in May.
REID: Yes.
CORN: Nancy Pelosi will you remind you every time you talk to her. And so, they're trying to work something with Mnuchin, but, you know, Trump seems, you know, on a completely different planet. He's just not engaged. He doesn't care.
REID: Yes. He's on the planet golf where he gets that sweet, sweet Secret Service golf rental money.
Here is the -- because I'll remind -- Nancy Pelosi -- Speaker Pelosi is not the only one who remind people because I will, too. Here it is, House in May a bill, the HEROES Act or how -- I think, does it even HEROES Act 1? They passed a bill before. Then HEROES ACT 1 passes in May. So, that was in May.
Then you have the Senate take a nice sweet break. August 14th to September 7th. They just go on vacation. It wasn't until September 10th that Mitch McConnell bothered to put anything on the floor. It failed because Republicans wouldn't support it.
Meanwhile, here's the new jobs report that's coming out. It's expected to show the U.S. adding roughly 800,000 jobs, with the unemployment rate dropping to 8.2 percent. Donald Trump will tout that as a victory, but it means half, only half of the more than 20 million jobs that were lost have come back -- less than half, far less than half.
CORN: Yes.
REID: So the reality is the recovery isn't happening. Donald Trump might be the first president to have a net jobs loss when he's done and he won't even push for a bill to get his big marker signature on the checks. It is odd.
CORN: Especially since it's an election time and he likes to play with other people's money. That's the essence of his business path. And so he can, you know, put out these checks, these stimulus checks, extra employment benefits. And he's not doing that.
I was looking at some numbers here. According to a Pew report, 104 Americans report trouble paying their bills. One out of three are using retirement savings. And that's everybody.
If you look at the black community, it's 43 percent are having trouble paying their bills, 33 percent have had to use a food bank. The numbers in the Latino community are close to that as well.
So there is a lot of pain. There's -- I mean, I see the food lines in my neighborhood here. There is a lot of anguish still going on.
And Trump, you know, isn't speaking with it. He's not acknowledging it. Biden is trying to when he can get a word in at the debate the other night. With these horrific numbers you see billionaires over the course of the pandemic, according to one estimate that came out this week, have added $900 billion, almost $900 billion, with a B, dollars to their network. And that's basically, you know, half the bill for the administration's small plan to deal with things.
So there is money out there. You could have a pandemic tax, a wealth tax. You could just borrow this money. Rates are low.
But the Trump administration, you know, isn't engaged. It's not a priority. So there is not much pressure, I think, on Mnuchin to reach a deal with Nancy Pelosi.
REID: Yes. And you have a piece out in "Mother Jones" right now talking about Jared Kushner being one of the people that you just mentioned, that's -- he's doing pretty well for himself in this pandemic.
CORN: Well, he has a $25 million to $50 million stake in a real estate company called Cadre, which is trying to, you know, make -- it was liking to make money by buying hotels in distress because of the pandemic. So here is a guy who is advising the president on supposedly what to do with the economic relief and other issues who stands to gain through the pandemic if things continue as they are and the hotel industry, which has been really slammed, doesn't get any relief.
REID: Yes.
CORN: I mean, it's an outright conflict of interest. But just one out of many that goes by without much scrutiny.
REID: Yes, the word "kleptocracy" comes to mind. Very quickly, the debate commission is deciding they are going to change up the rules. Source close to commission says they may do -- some mic cutoff, et cetera. Donald Trump says, they might not do that. I shall not allow it, as if he can stop them.
Your thoughts?
CORN: I agree with Donald Trump on this. I thought Tuesday night was a great night for America. We saw Donald Trump in his full glory for 90 minutes. I don't think a lot of Americans see that.
We watch each day, Joy, people who watch this show pay attention to this. But, you know, if you watch Trump for 5 or 10 minutes, you might think he's rough and tumble, and that's the type of guy you want.
You watch him do it for 90 minutes, it's an entirely different experience. So, I say, let the public see him. If he wants to not play by the rules, let them see him a bully and let the market decide how this is going to be.
REID: Yes.
CORN: So I wouldn't cutoff his mic. I'd give him as much time as he wants if he's going to behave that way.
REID: Even the Russian media who watched it, one of them said he looked like Putin's piglet and somebody internally in the United States said he looked like a crackhead. So, that was what people saw.
David Corn, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
And before we go, I want to tell you about the launch of my new podcast, "Kamala Next in Line", about Harris's rise from humble roots to become the first African-American woman to be the vice presidential nominee for a major party. First two episodes available on Monday. That's right before the debate for the VPs.
That is tonight's REIDOUT.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.
END
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