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Transcript: The ReidOut, January 13, 2021

Guests: Hakeem Jeffries, Joaquin Castro, Mazie Hirono, Pramila Jayapal, Rick Wilson


Trump has been impeached for the second time. Ten House Republicans voted with Democrats to impeach their own leader.


MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, MSNBC PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Later on, I talked to Carter and Ford and they told me they thought that they were the closest friends among ex-presidents in American history, and I was skeptical when I heard it, but I think that's probably true. That's the way America is supposed to operate.

NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: It sure is. Michael Beschloss, thank you for reminding us what normal looks like. And thank you for spending some time with us today.

BESCHLOSS: A pleasure always.

WALLACE: I think all of you for being along with us all day long. Our special coverage continues right now with my friend, Joy Reid, and THE REIDOUT. Hi, Joy.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Hi, Nicolle, excellent job. I have been glued to the screen or to SiriusXM when I was trying to type at work listening to it. This has been such a historic day. But I just want to ask you really quickly before I let you go, and I know you need to get some rest. What you were just talking about with Michael Beschloss, I wonder if you have thought through kind of how Republicans begin with somebody on my team called earlier today de-Ba'athification of the Republican Party?

And I wonder if Liz Cheney, her statement being the thing that Republicans used -- the Democrats used, sorry, to explain why they needed to impeach Donald Trump. Is there a little wing of the Republican Party that you think can do this sort of de-Ba'athification of the party and can it work at this point?

WALLACE: Look, I think the challenges is that the rot is from the grassroots all the way to the presidency, to the rot is at every layer. And you can call it rot because it's now criminal sedition, that there are people that supported it from the grassroots all the way up through to the White House.

I think what Liz Cheney may be is part of a party that may not always be called Republicans, or maybe that other part that's top to the bottom corrupted by Trumpism isn't always called Republicans, they can't coexist. And what became clear to me today is that whatever party Mitch McConnell and Liz Cheney think they're in isn't the same party Don Jr. is going to run under.

So I think you see the beginning of the end of one banner flying over Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump. That banner will not be the name of the party that describes both of them years from today.

REID: Yes. Well, that's great, because you get to send me into a wormhole about the wigs. I do love to talk about the wigs on my office.

WALLACE: Every time I'm making dinner, I have to get (INAUDIBLE) and then the wigs. I'm like, yes, we're going to have to pick this up tomorrow.

REID: We're talking wigs. We're doing that. That's happening. Okay, Nicolle, have a great evening, thank you so much.

WALLACE: Good night, my friend.

REID: Absolutely. Have a wonderful night. Nicolle is the best.

All right, well, today, as you just heard, is one of those days when you literally just have to step back and really just take in the fact that we are living right now, what kids are going to learn about in their high school history classes years and decades from now, Donald J. Trump, who has dragged this country through four long years of horror, from caged migrant children, Nazi coddling, open white nationalism and open corruption, who profited off the presidency, that he gained with foreign help and then humiliated himself and us before the ex-KGB agent who helped put him in the White House, and who fired the FBI director who caught him, who sat back and did absolutely nothing while more than 370,000 Americans died in a global pandemic, that guy has been impeached for the second time in a year.

No other president has been impeached twice. And none who has ever been impeached has ever been actually removed. And yet tonight, really, for the first time in our history, we stand on the brink of Donald Trump becoming the first president who can actually be convicted by the Senate, an outcome that is, by no means, clear as we go into this show tonight.

And Trump's fate was sealed by his role in yet another unprecedented event, the siege of the U.S. Capitol in an attempted coup sparked by Trump's defeat for re-election, an attempted coup incited by Trump himself. Trump's second impeachment for one count of inciting insurrection was not just swift, coming one week after the attempted MAGA coup, it was the most bipartisan impeachment of a president in U.S. history, with ten Republicans joining the Democrats' outrage.

And many of the Democrats were reciting the words of the third ranking House Republican, as we just talked about, Liz Cheney, who wrote, the president of the United States summoned this mob and lit the flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his doing. There has never been a greater betrayal by a president of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.

And with that, at 4:36 P.M., 232 House members voted to send just that one article of impeachment for incitement of insurrection. And less than an hour ago, Speaker Pelosi signed the single article and sent it to the Senate for consideration. The soon to be minority leader, Mitch McConnell, signaled that he was open to convicting Donald Trump while pushing back on a trial starting this week.

Now, throughout the day, with emotions still raw and bullet holes still visible in the Capitol, Democrats and Republicans took to the floor to make their case for impeachment.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We here in this House have a sacred obligation to stand for truth, to stand up for the Constitution, to stand as guardians of the republic.

REP. DAN NEWHOUSE (R-WA): Last week, there was a domestic threat at the door of the Capitol, and he did nothing to stop it. That is why, with a heavy heart and clear resolve, I will vote yes on these articles of impeachment.

REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): We have a mandate to legislate in defense of black lives. The first step in that process is to root out white supremacy starting with impeaching the white supremacist in chief.

REP. JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER (R-WA): I am not afraid of losing my job but I am afraid that my country will fail.

My vote to impeach our sitting president is not a fear-based decision. I am not choosing a side, I'm choosing truth. It's the only way to defeat fear.


REID: The remaining members of the Republican caucus came to the floor ignoring the magnitude of what happened last week and made disingenuous calls for unity and healing.


REP. ANDY BIGGS (R-AZ): It is with weariness and a certain unhealthy, morbid curiosity that I watched the beast attempt to devour President Donald J. Trump again.

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): The Democrats are going to impeach President Trump again. This doesn't unite the country.

REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): I call bull crap when I hear the Democrats demanding unity. Sadly, they are only unified in hate.

REP. TOM MCCLINTOCK (R-CA): President-elect Biden's promise to heal the nation becomes horrible mockery in the harsh reality of this unconstitutional act.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): All of us must resist the temptation of further polarization. Instead, we must unite once again as Americans.


REID: These calls for comity came from the same people who played prominent roles in egging on last week's assault. So take a good look at these folks, because they too are complicit in the coup.

Debate was conducted amid unprecedented security. Members head into the House floor under the watchful eye of nearly 20,000 National Guard members. Troops are photographed sleeping at the Capitol, a sight not seen since the Washington riot in 1968. It's a massive show of force one week before President-elect Joe Biden is sworn in as our 46th president.

And joining me now is Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York, chairman of the House Democratic Caucus. And thank you so much for being here, Representative Jeffries.

Your counterpart on the other side of the aisle, Liz Cheney, who is House Republican Caucus leader, the number three on the House Republican side, her words kind of became the rallying cry even for Democrats, who conducted this impeachment. Do you think that that signals that there might be a chance that when this case goes to trial in the Senate, even though Trump will already be gone, that perhaps he might be convicted?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It is certainly my hope that there's a real opportunity to convict this president for the incitement of a violent insurrection that he is responsible for, as Liz Cheney eloquently and courageously laid out. The fact that this is now the most bipartisan impeachment in American history and that Donald Trump has now been impeached twice, I think, lays a foundation to a real opportunity to finish the job in the United States Senate in a bipartisan way with rules that are put in place by the new Democratic majority that allows for a full and fair presentation of evidence and documents and witnesses which did not take place the last time.

REID: And, obviously, in a sense, I mean, you guys are witnesses, right. The actual members of the House and the United States Senate, you all are witnesses. You guys were in there experienced this assault. The assault was on you all. So it's interesting to me that the witnesses could wind up including members of Congress.

But I wanted to show you not only was this a bipartisan impeachment, it is all around the country, the Republicans who voted in favor of impeachment hail from as distant shores as Wyoming, Illinois, New York, Michigan, Washington State, South Carolina, Ohio and California. So these are Republicans from red states, from purple states, from blue states.

I am not naive enough to hope that that means there is some real change here. What do you make of their existence but at the same time you've got people who were named by the organizer of the so-called Stop the Steal rally, people like Representatives Gosar, Andy Biggs and Mo Brooks, and you've got people like Lauren Boebert, who is also QAnon, and another QAnon person, Marjorie Taylor Greene, on the other side.

What kind of caucus are you dealing with on the other side?

JEFFRIES: Well, it's unfortunate that most of the members of the House Republican conference remain part of team sedition as opposed to being part of team democracy. The overwhelming majority of the Republicans, of course, participated in the big lie that Donald Trump actually was the winner of this presidential election and that the presidency was stolen from him.

That was the foundation of the insurrection and the sedition and the violent attack on the U.S. Capitol that took place January 6th. And many of those members refused to acknowledge Joe Biden was the actual winner. So Trump may be gone sooner rather than later, Trumpism will still be with us.

REID: Very quickly, I know we're out of time, but do you think that the members who are implicated in helping to plan the January 6th event that then became a riot, do you think they should be expelled?

JEFFRIES: I think we need a full-on complete investigation and I think every single member should be held accountable. And the 14th Amendment, Section 3 is pretty clear that is you provide aid and comfort to an insurrection, you are no longer eligible to serve as a member of Congress. We're going to proceed to uncover all of the facts, apply the law and be guided by the Constitution.

REID: All right. Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, member of the Democratic House leadership, thank you very much.

JEFFRIES: Thank you, Joy.

REID: And during the debate today, Congressman Joaquin Castro of Texas, one of the nine House impeachment managers, asked his Republican counterparts a sobering question about last week's riot.


REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): Let me ask you a question, what do you think they would have done if they had gotten in? What do you think they would have done to you, and who do you think sent them here? The most dangerous man to ever occupy the Oval Office. If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?


REID: And Congressman Joaquin Castro joins me now. Congressman, thank you very much for being here.

That was such a passionate speech today. And I want to ask you based on what you said, what do you think they would have done if they had gotten through and the fact your lives were threatened and that we're now hearing that members of the Republican caucus in the House were leading tours of the Capitol, which could have given intel to these insurrectionists, that the organizer, who is in hiding, Ali Alexander, claimed in a video, he's the one who organized this, quote, Stop the Steal event, said he got assistance beforehand from Representatives Paul Gosar, Andy Biggs and Mo Brooks. And that when then you look at the two of the QAnon congresswomen, Lauren Boebert was tweeting that the speaker left the store after being asked not to discuss the location of the speaker.

Do you believe that members of the Republican caucus might have been involved in the insurrection themselves?

CASTRO: Well, I think that's a great question, and we absolutely have to get to the bottom of it. The reporting seems to suggest that that's quite possible. And I will say this, if they were found to have assisted these folks who then committed an insurrection and stormed the Capitol, then they should not only be expelled from Congress but they should also face criminal charges for doing so. And I look forward to that investigation being conducted.

REID: Do you feel safe around people like Congresswoman Lauren Boebert and Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene and the other -- I think it's up to 10, 11 members of the QAnon cult, who are members of Congress, some of whom brag about it. Madison Cawthorn is another that brags about carrying guns inside the House chamber. Do you feel safe with them around you?

CASTRO: Well, Joy, I served ten years in the state legislature in Texas, and I am now in my fifth term in the U.S. House of Representatives. And this is the first time for me where you certainly have a new class of people who are so far out there, Lauren Boebert, I think, the new representative from New York, I want to say, during -- while all of this was going on in the Capitol --

REID: From Colorado.

CASTRO: Colorado, I apologize. I believe that she tweeted or somehow communicated 1776 as though this was a revolution of some kind.

And so these folks who are -- who believe in a conspiracy theory of QAnon are just basically not tethered to reality, living in an alternative reality. And so, yes, that is dangerous.

REID: And, lastly, Tom Rice, who is a Republican who voted for -- one of the ten Republicans who voted in favor of impeachment, cited the president's inaction during the siege that -- as being the reason that he is going to support, and he supported, in fact, impeaching him, do you think that that might be laying a groundwork for conviction? When you go to make your case, it sounds like one argument that worked at least with this Republican who campaigned for Trump, who voted for Trump, said so in that tweet, said, yes, but the fact that he as president and commander-in-chief didn't take action to stop what was happening during the siege is a reason to convict him. Do you think that that is an argument that can work? And what are the arguments you're going to make?

CASTRO: Yes, I think that's an a important thing for Americans to realize. It was not only a matter of President Trump's words, he told a big lie that the election was being stolen if him, that he won in a landslide. He then asked his people and his supporters to march down to the Capitol. But after they stormed the Capitol, after there were injuries, after they were threatening members of Congress, after I think they had taken over the Senate chamber, he still was not willing to provide any help to stop what was going on at the U.S. Capitol.

So it was a matter of words that incited other people's actions, but he also, in his own actions, took part in this by refusing to help. So that is absolutely going to be front and center when we go to the Senate.

REID: We will all be watching this trial. It is truly historic. We are in some unprecedented times. Congressman Joaquin Castro of Texas, thank you very much for taking some time this evening.

And up next on THE REIDOUT, impeachment is now in Mitch McConnell's court. Will he try to drive a stake through the heart of Trumpism or protect his old partner in crime one more time?

Plus, new signs that the members of the Trump mob might have gotten inside help as they plotted their deadly insurrection.

THE REIDOUT continues after this.


REID: Donald Trump made history today by becoming the first American president to be impeached not once, but twice.

That doesn't mean he's removed from office or even barred from even running again. That will be up to the Senate, who will decide whether to convict Trump or acquit him for the second time in one year.

And joining me now is former Senator Claire McCaskill of Missouri.

And I hope that everyone who's been texting you, you have been memorizing all of what they have been telling you, because you talk with these senators.

I got to start, though, with -- Senator, at the -- temporarily at the top, Mitch McConnell, soon to be minority leader. Here's his statement on the schedule for impeaching Trump: "There is simply no chance that a fair or serious trial could conclude before president-elect Biden is sworn in next week. Even if the Senate process were to begin this week, and move promptly, no final verdict could be reached until after President Trump had left office. This is not a decision I'm making. It's a fact."

I am now staring at you in Amy Coney Barrett, because that was an eight-day operation. Is this believable or B.S.?

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it probably is believable because it's a trial. It's not just simply a hearing and a vote.

And that's essentially what a confirmation is. Now, did they rush Amy Coney Barrett? Of course they did. And could this go more quickly than maybe Mitch has in mind? What you're going to see now is a big Kabuki dance of negotiation over timing, Joy.

You're going to see Chuck Schumer -- and this is very weird, because there's a handoff here that's going to occur in the next couple of weeks.

REID: Yes.

MCCASKILL: And, all of a sudden, Chuck Schumer gets to decide whether they stay and work on weekends. Chuck Schumer gets to decide whether or not they adjourn at 10:00 at night.

So, you're going to see a negotiation. And also in these negotiations is going to be Joe Biden, because he doesn't want a trial to take up the whole day. He wants his confirmations to go forward.

REID: Yes.

MCCASKILL: So, there will be some give-and-take here. And I think Nancy Pelosi is going to hold off doing what she's doing until she gets some kind of signal about whether or not they can reach an agreement on how to go forward.

REID: So, here's the question I have.

This is a Senate sort of -- kind of almost a process question in a way, right, because we know that they can do more than one thing at the same time, clearly. So, in theory, they could be having the trial, right, and confirming Joe Biden's Cabinet nominees.

But is this a case of Mitch McConnell saying, so, which do you want? You want the FBI and the CIA directors in place, or do you want this trial? Do you want H.R.1, with all that voting rights goodies in it, or do you want a trial of Donald Trump?

Like, could he use, even as minority leader, that kind of a dance to try to push back the trial?

MCCASKILL: It depends on whether or not a unanimous consent is required for any of the things that Schumer wants to do.

Unanimous consent is something that's important to the Senate. It's how a lot of things move. That means Josh Hawley can stop the whole thing. And we obviously know he's inclined to do whatever he needs to do to get attention on this. So, you have got to really figure out how you can get around unanimous consent, how you can get an agreement.

And here's the thing. There's precedent. I did an impeachment trial of a judge that was done by committee. And then the entire Senate heard the evidence and deliberated and voted like in a day.

REID: Yes.

MCCASKILL: That would be unheard of for a president, although it's been done for judges.

So, I think there's going to be a lot of back-and-forth on this. I do think the trial will go forward. I do think that Chuck Schumer wants it to go forward as quickly as possible.

REID: Yes.

MCCASKILL: But he also wants to be cognizant that we have got a new president, and we need to get a national security team in place.

REID: And my team is going to kill me, but I have one more very quick question for you.

You know Mitch McConnell. He's exhibited sort of, I'm not sure, right, whether he wants Trump to be convicted. Isn't -- is my theory of Mitch McConnell correct that it's in his interests to convict, right? And these people who are on the fence, the Toomeys, the Sasses, the Romneys, the way to get to 17 is to say, look, do you want to face Donald Trump ever again on a presidential ticket, or do you want to be president?

Like, isn't there a political incentive now, even for the most cynical people, like your Ted Cruzes, to be like, yes, get out of here, let's get rid of him, so that we don't have to deal with him anymore?

MCCASKILL: First, there's an incentive because most of the Republicans in the Senate can't stand Donald Trump.

Second, there's an incentive because the only way they keep him off a ballot permanently is by first convicting him, because then that's the only time they can go to a vote that would prohibit him from ever holding office again.

REID: Yes. And Mitch already got his tax stuff and his judges, so he doesn't need him anymore either.


REID: Former Senator Claire McCaskill, thank you very much. Really appreciate you being here. Have a great night.


REID: And joining me now is Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii.

And I guess I have the same question for you, Senator.

When you look across the aisle at the Susan Collins of the world, who said after the first impeachment, I don't think we need to convict, I think, after all, he's gone through Donald Trump has learned his lesson -- oops. I guess that wasn't true, right?

People like that feel like they might be vulnerable to trying to save their own place in history by voting to convict. Do you get the sense that there are 17 potential people like that on the other side?



HIRONO: No, I don't see that happening.


HIRONO: But hope springs eternal all the time.

And this is unprecedented, of course, historic that a president gets impeached twice for -- and this time for inciting an insurrection, which all of us experienced right in front of our eyes.

There you go.

REID: Right.

HIRONO: He's telling us to believe our lying eyes, please.

REID: Right.

And I -- the thing about this particular trial will be that, in theory, senators and members of Congress could be the witnesses, because you all are the witnesses. This happened to you.


REID: And so I wonder if, because the insurrection happened to these senators -- put aside the really messed-up ones, like your Josh Hawleys and your Ted Cruzes.

If you're, let's say, Pat Toomey -- well, Pat Toomey is out. If you look at it Ben Sasse, right, who somehow wants to sort of redeem himself in history, the fact that he was victimized by this, do you think that that changes the way that they vote?

HIRONO: One would hope so, because it is really hard to turn away from what we all experienced. This is not some sort of an intellectual, investigatory situation.

All of this happened right before our ears and before our eyes. And so no amount of gaslighting by the president or the people who continue to support him can turn us away from the horrific sight that we saw and the people who died during this riot.

REID: Yes.

And, Senator, my final question would be, now that we have had these questions raised about police, potentially off-duty police, flying in to be a part of this riot, and questions about the leadership at the Capitol Police really leaving their people basically naked in the face of this insurrection and outmanned and outgunned, does this then make -- create more space to talk about police reform on a broader scale?

I mean, Capitol Police report to you all. They report to Congress. So, you all could reform them if you needed to. Do you think that that means that we will now have a more serious question and take seriously the idea that we need police reform more broadly?

HIRONO: Oh, I certainly hope so, because we know that racism is rampant in our country, as far as I'm concerned, never far below the surface.

And, yes, it exists within police departments. And this is one of the reasons that we really need to talk about -- and not just talk about, but institute Justice in Policing Act. And we need to get into consent decrees with police departments that are deemed to be unequal in their policing methods.

REID: Yes.

HIRONO: So, yes, I hope that it's one of the outcomes of what we saw happening.

REID: And, actually, I do have one last question.

I do want to give you an opportunity to respond to Donald Trump's very belated sudden, sort of -- I guess he's coming out for peace now, made a video where he said, hey, let's all be peaceful.

Do you have any response to his little video?

HIRONO: Well, four years of lying, chaos, mindless cruelty does not get wiped up away because of one staged video, no.

And then for him to say, none of my people would ever engage in violence, excuse me? What were all those people doing with their MAGA hats and their Trump banners?

So, once again, we are treated to an unbelievably insincere, lying, as far as I'm concerned, performance by Trump. Nobody should be taken from this -- by this.

REID: Senator Mazie Hirono making it very plain.

Thank you very much, Senator. Really appreciate you being here tonight.

HIRONO: Aloha.

REID: And -- cheers. Aloha.

And up next: new questions about whether the MAGA mob got inside assistance from Republican members of Congress. That's a big one.

Stay with us.



REP. VAL DEMINGS (D-FL): I do believe there was some inside assistance.

We know that there are officers who are being investigated and others. We will see how those investigations turn out.

If any members of Congress participated, helped to organize, orchestrate the attack on the U.S. Capitol and, quite frankly, the attack on us and the American people last Wednesday, they need to be held accountable.


REID: That was Congresswoman Val Demings of Florida suggesting that people inside the Capitol, including perhaps members of Congress, may have aided and abetted the Trump insurrection last week.

Now, the idea that any part of that deadly assault was an inside job is a chilling prospect, but there's new evidence to support it.

In a bombshell allegation last night, Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey said that she witnessed a number of lawmakers giving reconnaissance tours inside the Capitol a day before the attack.

In a letter to the sergeant at arms, she and more than 30 other House Democrats are demanding answers, noting that the visitors appeared to be associated with the rally at the White House the following day.

Now, that's not the only news that's raising suspicions today. The chief of staff to Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley also told "The Boston Globe" that, during the siege, she looked for the special panic buttons inside the office, but she found that: "Every panic button in my office had been torn out, the whole unit," she said, "though they could come up with no rationale as to why."

Then there's the public admission from the pro-Trump organizer of the Stop the Steal rally, Ali Alexander, who's now in hiding. As The Daily Beast reported yesterday, Alexander claimed in a video that he had some organizing assistance from pro-Trump Congressmen Paul Gosar, Andy Biggs, and Mo Brooks.

Biggs and Brooks were among a dozen Trump loyalists at a December 21 meeting with Trump at the White House, where they strategized over a last-ditch effort to overturn the election results.

And joining me now is Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington state, a member of the Judiciary Committee.

And, Congresswoman, first, thanks -- thank you for being here.

Before I asked you about this -- really this bombshell potential development in the attempted coup at the Capitol, I have to first ask you how you're feeling, because I know that you are recovering from COVID.


I am OK. I cycle in and out of my symptoms, fever, chills, headache. It's sort of moved up into my head today. And I'm sorry to say that these Republicans have not only given me COVID by not wearing their masks, but they have also given it to my husband now, who just tested positive.

So, this is the world we live in. But I will get through this. I know I will. And I appreciate everyone's good wishes.

REID: That is just one of the many sickening developments.

We know that Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley put out a press release as well regarding her husband. And it is monstrous -- I will just put it that way -- that members of the United States Congress and the United States Senate would sicken other members and not think twice about it. It's disgusting.

But let's go on to this other...


JAYAPAL: ... 3,200 Americans every day -- 3,200 Americans every day are dying of COVID, just...

REID: Yes.

JAYAPAL: ... the tragedy across the country.

And these Republicans are not showing exactly what we need to do to prevent this spread of this virus.

REID: Well, absolutely. I mean, I think they're -- those are two ways in which, in a sense, members of the Senate and the House might have been attacked by their own members, right?

You have now, in addition to the fact that we now believe that some Republicans were sickening other members and other members of the Senate, you have this Ali Alexander character saying that he had assistance from House members. We have these tours that are going through the Capitol.

We have -- it seems to me that it is not coincidental. You do have Clyburn, Representative Clyburn, Leader Clyburn, saying he's trying to still figure out how some of these attackers knew where his sort of private office was.

Do you -- are you worried that the attackers might have gotten help from members of Congress?

JAYAPAL: Yes. I think the stories that are coming out are damning.

Frankly, I said this the day of the attack, because it's inconceivable to me that such an attack could happen so quickly. It was planned. Remember, there were the bombs that were planted at the DNC and the RNC that happened to be timed in such a way that people were pulled off, some of the Capitol Police were pulled off of the Capitol to go and investigate those bombs.

And, of course, we had none of the things we should have had to prevent the insurrectionists from getting into the Capitol. So, I believe that this was very planned, and everybody knew where they were going, what they were doing.

And these reports of Republican members of Congress who were working with the leaders of the insurrection in the riots were -- were proud of it. They were talking about it even the day of.

So, I just think this is a -- this is a very difficult time, with people that we cannot trust within Congress.

REID: And the House Judiciary Committee, I believe that you all have supervisory -- sort of you work -- supervisory roles with the Capitol Police.

Are there going to be hearings on this, and potentially hearings that involve questioning whether members of Congress were a part of it?

JAYAPAL: Absolutely.

We are going to find every single person, including members of Congress, who were part of this, and we are going to hold them accountable. And no member of Congress can be allowed to be in Congress if they aided, abetted, fueled, worked with these insurrectionists, period.

REID: Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, wishing you and your husband a speedy recovery. Thank you very much for taking time with us this evening. Be well.

JAYAPAL: Thanks.

REID: Thank you.

And I want now to turn to NBC News reporter Ben Collins and Clint Watts, MSNBC national security analyst who worked with the FBI's counterterrorism division.

You both heard what the congresswoman had to say.

And I'll start with you, Clint. You know, the possibility that you had members of Congress who were walking people who later turned out to be among the insurrectionists ransacking the capitol, walking them on tours in which they could have gotten recon to know where to go, there's a video that is circulating a lot of people are talking about that looks like people really seemed to know where they were going.

Are you concerned members of Congress might have been a part of this? And might the FBI already be talking to them?

CLINT WATTS, MSNBC NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yeah, Joy, I think the FBI is probably already looking into that. Remember, the FBI has got thousands of leads now. They're running down hundreds of people across the country.

So this later stage of motive, who was connected as a broader network, who helped plot and plan, that should also come from the arrest of the individuals they already picked up and notes that essentially came out of the interviews. I think it's remarkable though when you look at how these individuals descended on the Capitol, they had very specific places they wanted to go.

Whose office did they sit in? Nancy Pelosi. Which videos do you see online, threats against Nancy Pelosi. So, I think what the big problem is going to be, whether state elected officials or federal elected officials, when there's law enforcement or former military members or current military members, this is going to show the pervasiveness of the Trump movement, really, in terms of radicalizing and bringing the people to the forefront and this will not just correct itself after the inauguration.

REID: Ben, let's get into some of these characters. Before I play -- before I ask you about Ali Alexander who's now in hiding, this is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez talking about what she's called her brush with death. Take a listen.


REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I can tell you that I had a very close encounter where I thought I was going to die. I want to cut straight to the chase. One, it was an extremely traumatizing event. And it is not an exaggeration to say that many, many members of the House were nearly assassinated. It's just not an exaggeration to say that at all.


REID: And, you know, Ben, that is not exaggeration. We've now seen -- we now know Representative McGovern is the guy walking in the hallway on the other side of that video where all of those riots were banging to try to get through and then the one went through -- went through the glass and was shot. On the other side of that were Representative McGovern and other members of Congress. Had they gotten through, God knows what they would have done to them. Likely someone would have died.

Ayanna Presley saying, her chief of staff saying the panic buttons were ripped off. On the other side saying members of Congress could have been killed. And here's what Ali Alexander who helped organizers had said, he said this before. He said on December 30th, everyone can guess what me and 500,000 others will do to that building. 1776 is always an option.

Who is this guy? How dangerous is he?

BEN COLLINS, NBC NEWS REPORTER: I want to back up first and just echo what Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said. She's correct. We were very close to a very dark and bad thing here.

There's a separate video that is going around of people signed the inside the building talking to people outside the building in a megaphone. In the video a person says, I was just in this other room. If we're going to take this building, we have to coordinate. And then they start planning from inside the Capitol. That is where we were at, we were that close.

And the people in that space were two kinds of people, they were militia members who have for decades now tried to overthrow the United States government. And then there were QAnon people who believe in a specific judgment day, a doomsday. This is the very point of QAnon, where all of members of Congress are rounded up, taken to a place and hung at a gallows or just summarily executed. That's called the storm. It is the big event in QAnon.

Everyone who follows QAnon knows about it. And we were inside the Capitol. We were close to something very, very dark that day.

REID: And that means, Clint Watts, we're still in the middle of something dark because the people in Congress who are said to have perhaps conspired with this person Ali Alexander, they're still members, they got to vote today on the impeachment.

How do you investigate a crime that perhaps members of Congress were complicit in?

WATTS: Well, I think it will be very meticulous, and I think one of the things we've seen is the FBI said very careful. We saw in the conference yesterday with secretary of WFO and U.S. attorney. They were very careful in terms of the language they chose about elected officials. They did not take anything off the table per se.

I think what will ultimately end up happening is they will trace all these leads out and they will go after the people that are really the ring leaders of this, that were talking about overthrowing the government. There's plenty of evidence, as Ben said, there's plenty of evidence online that shows what they intended to do. You can see it even in the weeks before.

My even larger fear is, aside from this group that made it to Washington, D.C., there were people that supported this movement that did not make it to Washington, D.C. They could not be there last week. But they're close to their hometowns and close to elected officials.

We saw a very violent plot disrupted by the FBI targeting Governor Whitmer. These people even talking about kidnapping elected officials, you know, murdering them, beheading them. These things online are common discussions. So, you know, the public when they see this, I hope they do not brush it aside because it could very much be in their hometown in just a couple of months.

REID: And I hope that police, despite what their unions may say, need to understand that these people are not their friends. So I hope police out there, look sharp, these are not your friends. They're not on your side. The Boogaloo people already killed police. They ain't your friend, y'all.

So, Ben Collins, Clint Watts, thank you very much. Really appreciate you both.

And up next -- what does the future of the Republican Party look like now that they're dear leader has been impeached twice?

Stay with us.


REID: Almost exactly a year ago, the Republican Party stood united in support of Donald Trump in the face of his first impeachment. That support is no longer as resolute as ten House Republicans voted with Democrats to impeach their own leader.

While these members are sure to face a backlash from their voters, they're saying, refreshingly, that what matters is the truth.


REP. JAIME HERRERA BEUTLER (R-WA): My vote to impeach our sitting president is not a fear-based decision, I am not choosing a side. I'm choosing truth. It's the only way to defeat fear.


REID: Joining me now is Rick Wilson, co-founder of the Lincoln Project.

And, Rick, great to see you as always. Let's talk about sort of the decisions that people are making. Jason Crow, Representative Jason Crow came on. He's on Chuck Todd earlier. He said, look, some of these members are scared they're going to get killed, they're afraid for their families lives.

Are we at this point where Republicans simply fear their voters?

RICK WILSON, CO-FOUNDER, THE LINCOLON PROJECT: I spoke to two members of Congress today who told me that -- one of them said flat out, if I vote against it, I will never know when they'll kill my wife or my kids or me. Okay?

They are terrified of the mob. And that's what the mob did. The purpose of terrorism is to terrorize.

Donald Trump is the leader of a terrorist faction of a terrorist group that terrorized the Congress. They accomplished their mission. When it came to the Republicans, the ones who really believe in Trumpism, it's a handful, it's, you know, 25, 30 of those idiots, the Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan types.

A lot of the rest of them are living in stark terror that Donald Trump's mob will come and kill them. That's not a country that we thought we lived in where the warlord will send his minions at you if you don't agree with everything he says. So, it is -- it is a dark moment for the Republican Party.

REID: Absolutely. Because what you get, you mentioned Matt Gaetz. He's in performance along with Representative Ken Buck.


REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): Before the rioters tore through that glass, Speaker Pelosi stood at that rostrum and tore through the president's State of the Union speech, inciting anger, resentment, division.

REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): Then the socialists in Hollywood joined their allies in congress. Robert de Niro said that he wanted to punch the president in the face. Madonna thought about blowing up the White House. Kathy Griffin held up a likeness of the president's beheaded head.


REID: So, Hollywood is the same thing as Donald Trump inciting an actual riot and a coup and tearing up Donald Trump's -- the weird equivalence, you have Marjorie Taylor Greene literally on the House floor saying she's being silenced while she's on the House floor also on TV. Like, they're sort of what's left in the party is the ridiculous.

WILSON: This whiny bitch victimhood from Matt Gaetz, and Ken Buck and Jim Jordan and Marjorie Taylor cuckoo QAnon Greene and all these other people, it is the most pathetic example of special pleading I've ever seen. They act as if they've been oppressed somehow, that the world is against them somehow.

Well, guess what? Twitter and Facebook aren't banning you because you're a conservative. They're banning you because you suck. They're banning you because you say evil shit. They're banning you because you support a revolution against the government of this country and a free and fair election.

This is the most remarkable thing about this to me is all of these tough guys swagger monkeys who act like they're big, you know, alpha males, they're whining and bitching and moaning about Kathy Griffin holding up a mannequin head, or Nancy Pelosi tearing up a piece of paper, come on, guys, toughen up.

REID: You know, the thing is, I feel like, Rick, that this is one of those examples of when you open the door to the crazy and to the lunatics. They all come in and after a while the first minute that you let in --


REID: -- they seem fairly normal, because I remember when the Tea Party started and were hanging Barack Obama in effigy and bringing monkey dolls to their rallies and Sarah Palin had rallies where people were screaming "kill him" about Barack Obama, Republicans reacted to that by letting them in the party and joining their caucus.

I mean, Marco Rubio, you and I both know that Marco Rubio ain't a tea partier, but he was like, sure I am.

WILSON: Right.

REID: Like they all start to mimic the extreme people. So, do you feel -- I mean, here's some of people who organized this 1/6 rally. It includes a tea party patriot. We're going to put the list up.


REID: Tea Party patriot, the Phyllis Schlafly Eagles, the Phyllis Schlafly Eagles? I mean, isn't this an example of the party making itself crazy like ten years ago and paying for it now?

WILSON: Look, this -- when we look back at the inflection points of the Tea Party movement, it was a legitimate thing for about a hot minute and then it became a vector for the crazy. It became a vector for the people back then who were talking about Agenda 21 and, you know, the world government and the U.N. invading Georgia, all this craziness.

But let me tell you, Joy, next cycle, there will be more QAnon candidates than there are this cycle. Next cycle it will be more --

REID: Yes, 100 percent.

WILSON: And by four or five years from now, if they don't purge it this, country is going to think there's a child cannibal sex ring under a pizza restaurant running the world.

REID: Yeah, I can't argue with that.

Rick Wilson, thank you very much. Really appreciate you being here.

And we'll be right back.

WILSON: Thanks, Joy.


REID: On next Tuesday, Inauguration Eve, Speaker Nancy Pelosi joins me for an exclusive interview to discuss the attack on your democracy, impeachment, and the road ahead. That is next Tuesday at 10:00 p.m.

And that is tonight's REIDOUT.

"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.



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