Summary
Florida governor opposes all COVID precautions. GOP governors are putting lives at risk with anti-mask policies. South Dakota governor opposes mask use. Florida tops 10,000 new cases for second straight day. All eye on Georgia head of crucial Senate runoff. Senator David Perdue's prolific stock trades are under scrutiny. America is facing some of the most severe crisis in our history and all Donald Trump wants to talk about is his phony election scandal; but what's really appalling is the lack of urgency from politicians who claim that they do care about America.
Transcript
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: The country will be rid of Donald Trump and his absentee stewardship of the pandemic in 47 days, which frankly, can't come soon enough. But what will remain, as the pandemic rages on with the darkest winter in American history on the horizon, will be America's other virus, the virus of trumpism that is deeply embodied in the cadre of this President's cult lieutenants at the state level.
Republican governors so eager to claw their way to the top of the trumpian food chain, they've happily picked up his war against science and his lack of respect or reverence for life itself.
Leading the charge is none other than Florida Governor Ron DeSantis who ran for office showing off his toddler in a Trump onesie, and it was earned the nickname DeathSantis for his awful handling of the pandemic. On Monday, he reaffirmed his commitment to doing virtually nothing to blunt the coronavirus as it rampages through his state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): No lock downs, no fines, no school closures. No one's losing their job because of a government dictate. Nobody's losing their livelihood, their business that is totally off the table.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you considered, or reconsidered, a statewide mask mandate?
DESANTIS: I'm opposed to mandates period. I don't think they work. People in Florida where and when you go out I mean, they don't have to be strung up by a bayonet to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: DeSantis also called critics of his school policies, flat earthers and told the lie that mandates don't work in states that have them. The very next day, Florida surpassed 1 million cases of COVID. The Florida SunSentinel notes his pattern of secrecy and spin in an investigation into how he's misled Floridians about the pandemic, noting that the DeSantis' administration suppressed unfavorable facts, dispensed dangerous misinformation, dismissed public health professionals and promoted the views of scientific dissenters.
Also riding Trump's coattails equally obstinate Republican governors like South Dakota's Kristi Noem, who has spent months infamously, screaming freedom as cases have exploded there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): Let me tell you, my people are happy. They're happy because they're free. The governor in Nebraska, Pete Ricketts, Kim Reynolds in Iowa and I have been making decisions to protect our people and let them use personal responsibility to protect their way of life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Noem mentioned Iowa Republican Kim Reynolds. The Atlantic describes her state as an example of what happens when government does nothing. Writing, "To visit Iowa right now is to travel back in time to the early days of the coronavirus pandemic, in places such as New York City and Lombardy and Seattle."
These Republican governors telling their citizens to essentially dance in the Petri dish of COVID all the way to the E.R. and maybe to the morgue, isn't just leading to needless death on a large scale. It will also have a major impact on how the country as a whole recovers from this devastating crisis.
As Axios notes, the Trump administration is leaving it up to Governor's to decide who gets the vaccine and when? It's an ultimate test of federalism and of each state's executive's ability to act decisively at warp speed as the deaths pile up and struggling businesses face desperate circumstances.
And joining me now are former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman, Fernand Amandi democratic pollster, and Dr. Lipi Roy, Internal Medicine Physician.
Thank you all for being here. And, you know, Governor Whitman, I want to start with you because, you know, I understand why Kristi Noem sees it as good politics to let people live their lives, party hardy into the pandemic. If you die, you die, but go ahead and have fun now. It's short term. It's sort of short-term fun for long term pain, right? So Governor, I want to show you the opposite of that. The hard way to do it is the way that the governor of New York has done it, which is to say, nope, you can't party hard into the pandemic. You have to actually make some sacrifices. Here's the reaction in Staten Island at one bar in Staten Island that declared itself an autonomous zone from state compliance.
Oh, OK. So we don't we have sound over it. But basically, this is Macs Public House. And they went against the COVID restrictions, they were shut down, the owner was arrested, you can see the size of this protest. And people without mask screaming open the bar, open up New York, demanding that the restrictions end. That's the unpopular route. But New York is actually seeing the benefit of doing the unpopular thing by seeing the death rate go down. If you were still in charge of a state, in the state of New Jersey and things like that were happening. How do you balance that out? People want their businesses open. They want their gym open. They've worked hard to build this bar. They want it to be open, but letting people do what they want leads to people being dead.
CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN (R), FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: Absolutely. And you know, the tragedy here is, if the President had taken this virus seriously at the beginning, and laid out the basics that need to happen in order to get it under control, or to try to flatten that curve, we would be far ahead of where we are now. He didn't and it makes it extremely difficult for governors, like Governor Cuomo to shut things down, because you've got the president saying, "Don't do it." And you've got, as you pointed out, the other Republican acolyte governors, they're not all Republican governors are doing it. Larry Hogan in Maryland is very strong on trying to protect his people. It's mindless, I mean, yes, you can have your freedom or run around without a mask, but you'd risk not only getting yourself sick, but getting other sick. It's a kind of lack of acknowledgement that you have a responsibility to others. And that's what's so sad about this.
But looking forward to when Joe Biden takes the oath of office, and he's going to ask all of us to wear masks for 100 days, not forever 100 days. There are still going to be people who aren't going to do it, but it needs to be enforced.
REID: But Governor Whitman, when you run for governor, when you're a governor of a state, you have a fiduciary duty, don't you to your constituents to keep them alive? Does that duty, is that duty outweighed by the desire to keep them happy, which is the bigger duty?
WHITMAN: To keep them alive? There's no question about it. Because the other half of that is that if you take the actions early enough on and if we have had a consistent message from the White House, we could have kept businesses open. We didn't have to go through what we're going through now. And perhaps the worst thing for a particularly a small business is to open only to be told they have to close again when they stock up, and they get things in expecting to be able to sell these things, and then they have to close down again.
So it's put us in a very difficult position where people are neither enjoying themselves because they're losing their jobs and their homes and they're scared about the future, nor are they staying healthy. It's the worst of both worlds right now.
REID: Yeah, and Fernand, you know, as a former Floridian I'm horrified and scared for all of you and all of my friends like yourself who still live in the state of Florida, because you kind of the worst of both worlds. Like we know that there's this culture that's developed in the Republican Party around standing up and sort of this macho thing, where we don't wear masks. We don't lock down, we just show up at the bar to just own the lives.
You have these young Republicans staging secret gala, just to celebrate that they're going to match up against the COVID that, you know, coronavirus, and then they ended up in the E.R. and are demanding to be the first one to get a ventilator, right?
You have governor, the governor of Florida fighting mayors. You have the mayor of Miami Beach, Dan Gilbert, write a letter to the DeSantis that was published on November 18, saying this isn't working. It's unmistakably clear that Florida's approach to managing this pandemic is failing horribly. I believe your approach is neither saving lives, nor livelihoods. While DeSantis rather than worry about his people staying alive, is telling Donald Trump fight on against the election to try to, you know, urging him to keep fighting about the election. It's like he doesn't care whether his people live or die. As long as Disney World stays open. I don't get it. How is -- how are Floridians reacting to this governor's attitude toward them?
FERNAND AMANDI, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Well, Joy, I mean the same Floridians are horrified, you know the mind reels at seeing this behavior. And I wish it were just limited to Florida. I mean, if it was just a Florida GOP problem, we can go to some of the other states. But this is just endemic of a party that over the last four years proved to be openly hostile to American democracy, but they are now openly hostile to American life.
I mean, if you had -- if this were a relationship, for example, if you were involved in a relationship with the Republican Party, you know, a judge would issue a restraining order. And the police would probably file charges for attempted murder, if not manslaughter because we're seeing people pay the price with their lives. And one also has to ask themselves, what sort of precedent are we creating here with this no common good, no mask policy?
Can people all of a sudden walk into restaurants in Florida and decide for the hell of it, they're going to start smoking, despite regulations that say you can't smoke in public restaurants because personal freedom own the lives. What message is this communicating not only to Floridians who have to bear the brunt of this, but around the world? It's horrifying joy. And I remember, you know, saying on your former show, Joy, when talking about this, it sounded hyperbolic at the time. But I said the Republican Party is akin to a domestic terror organization and how they're acting in the conduct of their policies, and how those that conduct of its policies impact lives, their people paying for their lives. Now, how is this not the actions of a group that is hostile to American life? It's horrifying. And unfortunately, for another 47 days, I'm not sure what the solution is, except stay alive.
REID: That's how I feel too, that literally, it says if Dr. Roy, Republican governors are conducting in real time, what Scott Atlas was just talking about, they're conducting an experiment to see if they can just develop herd immunity in their own states. They're saying the most important thing is that people's bars and restaurants get to be open. All the kids must go to school, not can go to school, but must go to school.
And also their parents must be able to go and eat indoors in a restaurant. So you're just piling up the threat level. And when you sort of go and sort of lurk on to conservative, you know, Twitter, those who are not on parlor, who are still on Twitter, they'll say, well, Sweden did it. Sweden did it that way. Sweden didn't have locked down. Sweden doesn't have mass borders. And look, Sweden got away with it. But Sweden right now is in the midst of a COVID crisis. They're having like an actual catastrophic crisis, because they did that. So we've seen that open the state, open the country thing happened in real time, and it's a disaster. How do you talk people out of it when they believe in their head that if you just let everybody gets sick, everyone will be OK?
DR. LIPI ROY, INTERNAL MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: Good evening, Joy. So good to see you and I'm honored to be on this panel. This is why data matters. This is why information matters. And speaking clearly and honestly matters. Our leaders really need to take on the role of being leaders.
You know, it's kind of like when you're a parent you want -- if you want to be the fun parent and let your kid just eat candy and chocolate and doughnuts all day. Yeah, the kids going to figure that you're the best friend, right? But a parent's job is not to be their child's best friend, that, you know, if you want to actually have your child thrive and survive and do well. You want to -- you have to be disciplined.
These leaders, particularly Governor DeSantis, Governor Noem, they are not following the evidence based guidelines, recommendations that are going to keep people safe. We have more than enough data now, Joy, to show that this simple little mask can actually save lives. We have data showing that states that have mandated masks have far fewer cases.
I'm graduated New York State, Joy. So I've been living in New York City since the start of the pandemic. I was here during that hellish period in March in April, actually, when we had 1000, over 1000 people die in 124 hour period. And Governor Cuomo made the very difficult decision to shut down.
I mean, in New York City, New York state where there's Broadway restaurants, museums, Yankee state, I mean, so much shut down. People, yes, lost their jobs. It was very difficult. But, you know what, it happened because it was the one thing to do in order to save lives. When you're in the midst of an infectious disease outbreak, we have decades, actually centuries of data showing that locked down is what saves lives. Again, we're thankful now opening up but that's but he followed public health measures. That's what needs to happen, Joy.
REID: And, you know, Fernand, I can see Ron DeSantis and Kristi Noem running as a ticket in 2024 on this because it's clear that the public is teaching Republican leaders that it's OK to sit on 250,000, 270,000 bodies and people don't care or they just don't believe the bodies are real. I worried that this is becoming the new politics of the Republican Party.
AMANDI: Joy, you know, this is the most horrifying thing of all, you just touched on it. I mean, if there were no constituency for this madness, you know, we'd at least be able to trust in our fellow Americans, I'm afraid deathly afraid that the weaponization of these policies and how they become politically tribal issues might mean that they have support. You know, I think unfortunately, Ron DeSantis were on the ballot this past November here in our State of Florida inexplicably, despite the fact that he's overseen this malevolent response, where tens of thousands of Floridians have caught in the virus unnecessarily and perished from it. He would have won reelection. So we get the government we deserve, this as much an American populace problem as an American leadership problem.
REID: It absolutely is. It's terrifying Governor Christine Todd Whitman, Fernand Amandi, Dr. Lipi Roy, say thank you all very much.
Up next on the ReidOut, the two parties bring out their biggest stars to try and sway Georgia voters with the runoff election now just a month away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, (D) FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The promise of the Biden presidency and the Harris vice presidency rests in part on their ability to have a cooperative posture with Congress. And to do that, we have to have the two gentlemen who are running for Senate in Georgia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: And one of those two gentlemen, Jon Ossoff joins me next. And where is the outrage? Nearly 3000 deaths a day nearly 9 million more people out of work compared to a year ago. And what are Republicans focused on? Election conspiracy fantasies. Larry Wilmore will be here to talk about that and much more. The ReidOut continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: As the coronavirus continues its unmitigated surge throughout the country destroying lives and the economy. Senate Republicans are whistling past the graveyard. Senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, led by Mitch McConnell, the Pied Piper of doom, have spent more time stuffing their pockets in the courts than they have approving aid for the American people.
On January 5, the people of Georgia get to decide if they want more of that. Democrats Jon Ossoff, and Reverend Raphael Warnock will face off against the current senators in an extraordinary dual runoff that will decide who controls the levers of power in the Senate. Today, President Barack Obama joined the Democratic candidates virtually.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If the Senate is controlled by Republicans who are interested in obstruction and gridlock rather than progress and helping people, they can block just about anything. The Senate really matters, the promise of the Biden presidency, and the Harris vice presidency rests, in part, on their ability to have a cooperative posture with Congress. And to do that, we have to have the two gentlemen who are running for Senate in Georgia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: He ought to know, meanwhile, in Savannah, soon to be former Vice President Mike Pence was trying to convince Republicans to go the extra mile for Loeffler and Perdue.
President-elect Joe Biden told reporters he too will travel to Georgia. For more I'm joined now by NBC News Correspondent, Blayne Alexander in Atlanta. Blaine, what is the latest?
BLAYNE ALEXANDER, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Joy, you know, as we look ahead to President Trump's visit tomorrow, Republicans are really in a very unusual and a very rare position of not knowing whether this visit is going to be helpful or hurtful as they go into this all important Senate pair of Senate run offs in January.
So remember, President Trump for the better part of the last two weeks or so has really launched repeated attacks at the validity of the Georgia election unfounded attacks, and also launched personal attacks at the Republican governor here in Georgia, Governor Brian Kemp and the Republican Secretary of State.
So, you know, when I've spoken with Republicans, they say that yes, of course, President Trump does have a lot of pool in the state of Georgia. But what Republicans are really hoping to hear from the President is more about a senator as Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, and less about the airing of his own grievances. Because as of right now, Joy, Republicans are in a very interesting position where yes, they're trying to focus all of their energy, all of their movement on getting out the vote for their two candidates. But they're also saddled with this additional burden of trying to kind of walk this line around the President's false claims around the election. And they're concerned that those could actually dissuade the very voters that they need to turn out.
So while they are saying, hey, come out and vote, they're also reassuring people that yes, your vote is going to count.
Now, always offering Vice President Pence today was a little bit of both of that. He did kind of repeat the President's unfounded claims of voter fraud. But he said, despite all of our doubts, as he put it about the election, "If we don't vote, they will win."
Now, on the Democratic side, I've spoken with one source who kind of sums it up like this, essentially saying that all of this infighting all of this issue between Republicans is, nothing but helpful as they go forward and get ready for these pair of run offs in January, Joy.
REID: Wow, Blayne Alexander, thank you very much for that reporting. To bed, everyday as festivus, I don't think they're supposed to be happy. But thank you very much. I appreciate it.
And according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Senator David Perdue has tried to pull off a balancing act by mostly avoiding questions from Atlanta reporters ducking the soul debate of the runoff and talking largely exclusively to friendly outlets outside the metro Atlanta area. So we're not surprised that he appeared on Fox News last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DAVID PERDUE, (R) GEORGIA: President Trump's very frustrated, I'm very frustrated, we're going to do everything we possibly can to make sure that whatever anomalies are uncovered in November, don't happen in January. But this is illogical for any republican to think that Oh, I'm just going to sit down and not vote and, Hanna, as you say, the keys over the Democrats. We know what's at stake. This is the last line of defense against their radical liberal agenda, that once they do this, we won't get it back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Yes, yes, yes. Joining me now is Democratic Senate candidate Jon Ossoff. And, Mr. Ossoff, thank you so much for being here. Whatever anomalies is the thing that I noted in that interview on Fox News, apparently, Mr. Perdue, Senator Perdue has sort of tacitly acknowledged though that the election is over. He did speak with the Republican Jewish Coalition and acknowledge that Joe Biden will be president. So he doesn't really think there are anomalies he's just saying it.
Meanwhile, the Trump campaign has filed yet another lawsuit to try to overturn the results in Georgia. How is all of this madness and refusal to admit reality on the Republican side? Is that in any way impacting your campaign?
JON OSSOFF, (D-GA) U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE: It's mind blowing. I mean, folks are losing their jobs. Families can't make the house payment, the car payment. We got more than 3000 Americans dying in a single day. And my opponent's principal concern is how he can avoid getting tweeted on by Donald Trump talking out of both sides of his mouth behind closed doors, blaming Trump for republican underperformance here and public acting like Trump actually won. They are so out of touch with the daily suffering of working people in this state. He should be in Washington right now passing COVID relief.
REID: Yeah. And on that very point, a couple of things, number one, yes, on the COVID relief thing, and I'm going to come to that in just one second, put a slight pit in that. But you're running against a man who's made really what 3000, how many stock trades, you do 2596 trades in just one term. He was already rich. He seems to be spending a lot of time when he's not pretending that the election wasn't over making money as a senator. And I'm wondering how direct you're going at that in your case against him? Because you're right, you have a lot of Georgians who cannot pay their rent this month, who are going to run out of any relief that they had. It's expiring left and right. And this guy hasn't done anything for them. But how much are you playing up the fact that he's also making a lot of money being a senator?
OSSOFF: David Perdue is like the cartoon version of a corrupt oligarch profiting from tragedy, while opposing help for ordinary people. This is a guy who lives on a private island, hadn't held a single town hall meeting in six years, openly sells meetings to lobbyists for corporate PAC checks, votes to throw people off their health care, opposed even the first round of $12,000 stimulus checks. And he treats his Senate office like it's an E-trade account, sitting on the banking committee trading banking stocks, buying up shares in the defense contractor right before the committee he controls, sends taxpayer dollars to it then cashing out at a profit, buying stock and manufacturers of vaccines and medical equipment while he's dumping his casino shares, getting classified briefings on COVID-19 and telling the rest of us it's no deadlier than the flu. All the while opposing help for regular people. He has got to go and how directly are we taking it on? Absolutely directly. The people of Georgia need to know that David Perdue is a crook. And we're making sure that they know it.
REID: And yet, you know, Rachel (inaudible) has been tweeting a lot that, you know, the sort of sort of raiser message in Georgia would be to say, if you want relief, right, if you want a relief bill to pass the United States Senate that's going to be robust and really give you real benefits. You have to vote for the Democrats. That would be the opposite razor message, but that the people who pick that up would be Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, that they're actually running ads saying the only way the economy is going to be good. And the only way you're going to have a job is if you vote for Perdue and Loeffler. Have they picked up that message in a stronger manner then you guys have?
OSSOFF: No, Perdue and Ossoff are just running garden variety fear mongering ads, you know, cooked up in Washington, all of the normal stuff you see in every Senate race. And the message is very, very clear, Mitch McConnell will try to do to Joe and Kamala just like he tried to do to President Obama, it will be gridlock and obstruction and government shutdowns and paralysis during a crisis like this is totally untenable.
If we're going to get resources to the CDC and hospital systems across the country, and nursing homes and clinics and doctors and scientists across the country, if we're going to get direct financial relief to people who need it right now, who needed it four months ago who needed it six months ago, if we're going to invest in a long term economic recovery with the infrastructure and jobs program that we need, we have to win these two Senate races. And there's a bigger picture here too. If we're going to pass a new Civil Rights Act and advanced comprehensive criminal justice reform, if we're going to solve this environmental crisis, if we're going to make sure every single American has the health care and health insurance they need, we have to win these two U.S. Senate races.
We're not pretending that the stakes are not astronomical, and the national. The stakes for the people of Georgia are extremely high. The stakes for the nation are extremely high. And we're speaking very candidly about that here in Georgia.
REID: Let's talk a little bit about the compromise what we know of it so far this $900 billion bill which ironically, is sort of getting back to where Mitch McConnell wanted it to be numbers wise, not the 3 trillion Democrats wanted. There's a few things in it that seems to be rather light, childcare is only $10 billion. Broadband, we know kids can't -- who don't have means, can't afford to work from home and do school, I mean do school from home because they just can't, a small amount to states.
But I noticed in here that liability protection got in. This was Mitch McConnell's must-have, that businesses, big businesses, meatpacking companies, et cetera, can make their workers come back to work during COVID, risk their lives, maybe die, and they can't be sued. That's in this compromise.
If you were in the Senate right now, would you support this compromise?
OSSOFF: If I were in the Senate right now, what I would be supporting is a legislative package that delivers immediate direct stimulus checks to the American people, immediate small business relief, immediate funding for local school districts and state and local governments who right now are seeing collapsing tax revenue, and are having a really tough time adapting to this new environment, immediate resources for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and hospital systems and clinics across the country to augment the public health response.
And, look, I applaud the bipartisan spirit, that there are actually people coming together. And the truth of the matter is that, in a crisis like this, when they're already eight months late with help, speed matters as much as the details in so many ways.
But we need to get direct relief to the people. We needed to get direct relief to the people eight months ago. And there is no excuse for holding it up any longer.
REID: Jon Ossoff, good luck in your race, yourself and Mr. Warnock.
Thank you very much. Appreciate your time.
OSSOFF: Thank you. Appreciate it.
REID: And still ahead, just how -- cheers. Cheers.
Just how much more damage can Trump do in the 47 days that he has left?
Mary Trump joins us with insight on what her uncle Donald is capable of. And that is next on THE REIDOUT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: Donald Trump is fighting so hard to keep a job he's not even doing.
Instead of leading on the coronavirus, he's spending all of his time raising money, scamming more than $200 million from his supporters to challenge an election he cannot overturn. He's also reportedly sitting around making lists of people he can preemptively pardon, considering up to 20 people, according to Politico.
Those up for clemency include everyone from Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, to several members of his family, all people who haven't even been charged with a crime. Weighing on Trump's mind is whether these pardons would look like an admission of guilt.
You think?
I'm joined now by Mary Trump, niece of President Donald Trump and author of "Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man."
And, Mary, it's always good to talk with you.
The pardons. I wonder how serious this is in terms of pardons, or whether or not this is just talk, or whether or not Donald Trump is really genuinely worried that it'll make these people look guilty.
Item. The Senate -- the Senate committee -- there's a Senate Justice Committee -- Justice Department -- I'm sorry -- the United States Senate sent to the Justice Department a sort of docket of potential suspicions that Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and others had pre-election meetings with a Russian lawyer, and then contradicted Rick Gates on those meetings.
So, this has already happened. This was the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Is that the source, do you think, of Donald Trump's concerns, that maybe Jared and Donald Trump Jr. could actually literally be indicted?
MARY TRUMP, AUTHOR, "TOO MUCH AND NEVER ENOUGH: HOW MY FAMILY CREATED THE WORLD'S MOST DANGEROUS MAN": Yes, I think he has every reason to be concerned.
And I think it's working on two different levels, though. There's also the benefit of using the pardons as a preemptive strike against the deep state witch-hunt that will inevitably come for him. So, it's just a way to muddy the waters for his followers.
But, on the other hand, of course, he wouldn't be doing that if there weren't a there there.
REID: You -- and you have written in your first book -- and I know you're working on a second book now, but, in your first book, you really sort of intimate that the one child he may actually care what happens to is Ivanka Trump, right?
And she does face some very real potential jeopardy on this inaugural fund, and the fact that they were overcharging and upcharging people or upcharging the inauguration to use the Trump Hotel.
You now also have her being deposed. D.C. is suing the Trump inaugural committee, saying it was really, not just overpaying, but grossly overpaying. You have got a lot going on.
You have got also some tenants that are now scheming -- or suing Donald Trump over a scheme that drove their rents up. So there's a lot there that Ivanka might -- that might touch Ivanka. Do you think that she's somebody who may get a pardon, or would that also just be atmospherics to get his followers excited?
TRUMP: Again, I think -- I think it operates on both levels.
What I find really interesting is that, if he does pardon -- try to pardon himself, pardons his adult children, then that, I would think, would prompt, whoever the next A.G. is to look into why that might have been the case, because it is a bit of a red flag.
On the other hand, the pardons may serve the purpose of, as I said, muddying the waters for his followers by making it seem like it's a deep state hoax out to get him.
But it doesn't help him at all with the potential state level charges that he is almost certainly going to be facing, at least in New York.
REID: Right. Yes.
Do you think that your uncle is genuinely afraid of going to prison and thinks he might?
TRUMP: He's certainly acting that way.
He is so desperate right now. I think part of it is driven by the fact that he cannot accept this loss. Literally, psychologically, it is an impossible task for him to come to terms with it.
On the other hand, though, he's a deeply paranoid person, who also knows what he's done. So, it wouldn't surprise me at all. And, quite honestly, I hope that's the case, because he should be held accountable for something at least. And if it's state charges that have to do with tax fraud and money laundering, so be it.
But what he really should be held accountable for is the fact that, because of his willful, malignant inaction, 3,000 Americans are now dying every day. And it's absolutely despicable.
REID: Yes, one every 30 seconds.
Your next book, which is called "The Reckoning," is going to examine America's national trauma rooted in our history, but dramatically exacerbated by the impact of current events and the Trump administration's corrupted immoral policies. That's what you're writing about now.
But, in terms of the trauma that's being inflicted that you just mentioned right now, all of the death, the thing I think that shocks and dismays me the most is how numb, not only Donald Trump is to it, but his whole party seems to be to it, that they don't seem to care. It doesn't seem to bother them.
We talked about Ron DeSantis earlier. They seem to sort of revel in the fact that they can just let these people die, and there's no consequences. That, I do not understand. Do you?
TRUMP: It is -- it's really hard to grasp, because they're just as at risk as everybody else. I mean, their families are just -- in fact, their families might be more at risk, because they're not taking any precautions.
REID: Right.
TRUMP: Republicans continue to gather maskless, not social distance indoors. Mike Pompeo is planning on having a party for 900 people inside.
So, it's really difficult to understand. Like, if it were other people, that would make more sense, because I think they kind of have a God complex or something. But maybe they just buy into the insanity that drives Donald that wearing a mask makes you a lightweight somehow. Being afraid of a virus that has killed over 300,000 Americans makes you weak.
So, it's going to be fascinating -- and I don't mean that in a good way -- to see how all of this...
REID: Yes.
TRUMP: ... unravels in the next few months.
REID: Mary Trump, who has been one of the most valuable voices, I have to say, over the last year, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate you spending some time with us this evening.
TRUMP: Thank you, Joy.
REID: And up next: America is -- thank you.
America is facing some of the most severe crises in our history, and all Donald Trump wants to talk about is his voting election scandal. But what's really appalling is what we just talked about, the lack of urgency from politicians who claim that they do care about America.
Stay with us.
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REID: On 9/11, 2,977 people were killed. That carnage horrified virtually every human being in our country.
The outcry from politicians and the public alike spurred quick congressional action, like the creation of an entirely new Cabinet department, Homeland Security. New and, frankly, onerous surveillance laws were passed, in the name of keeping us safe. At airports, we agree to take off our shoes and our coats and our belts and submit to further screenings for the greater good.
And, today, we are losing nearly the same number of Americans as on 9/11 every day from COVID. And, according to our leading medical experts, like Dr. Fauci, it's only going to get worse.
So, where is the outrage? We have lost more than 277,000 of our family members, friends and neighbors. And, this week, COVID-19 became the leading cause of death in the United States, surpassing heart disease and cancer. Think about that.
And the person who swore to protect and defend this country as president of the United States, Donald Trump, is not only not doing a damn thing to try and protect you and your family. He isn't even talking about it. He doesn't say a word to acknowledge the reality that we are all facing, not one word.
Even on his favorite thing, Twitter, he's all but silent on the coronavirus. His 150-plus tweets in the past week have almost exclusively focused on conspiracy theories and excuses for why he lost the election.
Perhaps if he had put the same energy into fighting COVID and caring for anyone other than himself, the election might have turned out differently.
But Trump, Trump is not alone. Where's the outrage from the other Republican elected officials? I mean, it's great that there are now new talks about getting Americans more relief, and I certainly hope they do that. But it's been 224 days since the last relief bill passed by Congress and was signed by Trump.
How many more Americans have to lose their jobs, their businesses, their homes, their lives before Congress actually acts? Where is the outrage?
I will talk with Larry Wilmore about that next.
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REID: I will tell you what. January 20 cannot come soon enough.
Unlike the current occupant of the White House, president-elect Joe Biden is using his megaphone to implore our elected leaders to actually do their jobs and help the American people in this incredibly dire time of need.
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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: The folks out there aren't looking for a handout. They just need help. They are in trouble through no fault of their own.
If Congress and President Trump fail to act by the end of December, 12 million Americans will lose their unemployment benefits they rely on.
Merry Christmas.
Put yourself in that position, anybody listening, laying awake at night wondering, what is going to happen tomorrow?
If we don't act now, the future will be very bleak. Americans need help. And they need it now.
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REID: Joining me now is Larry Wilmore, comedian and host of the great show "Wilmore" on Peacock.
And, Larry, it's always great to talk with you.
LARRY WILMORE, HOST, "WILMORE": Good to see you.
REID: And we were talking earlier on our show call about -- yes, thank you very much -- about the fact that we see these numbers, 274,000 people dead, and it traumatizes me, I will admit.
WILMORE: Right.
REID: I am traumatized by this number of dead.
WILMORE: Me too.
REID: But that if you're encased in like right-wing media world, and you only get your news from right-wing media world...
WILMORE: Yes.
REID: ... there are a lot of people who just don't believe the number is real. They're like, oh, you're just reporting real flu deaths, and you're faking and lying that they're COVID, but they're not COVID.
WILMORE: Yes.
REID: They're just people who are elderly and dying anyway. Like, in their heads, they don't believe it.
But there are things that you cannot not believe, right?
WILMORE: Right.
REID: In 2019, 158.5 million people had jobs. In 2020, 149.7 million people have jobs. That is 8.8 million fewer people having jobs. It's just an actual raw fact that doesn't take -- there's -- you can't fake that.
The food lines. When you see people standing line for food, in their cars, waiting to get food from food banks, that's a real thing.
WILMORE: Yes.
REID: It's not fake.
So, I wonder how you think people have become so numb to this crisis, when the things you can't fake are right there in your face?
WILMORE: You know, I think Trump put it best. It's herd mentality is what it is.
(LAUGHTER)
WILMORE: It's the phrase that he used.
It's people getting in line because -- it's like confirmation bias, how that works, Joy, right, where you form an opinion about something, and then all the evidence has to fit that opinion.
REID: Right.
WILMORE: So, somehow, they have to twist and contort the evidence to form the opinion that they already have.
I mean, think about it. Remember when Obama was doing Obamacare, and they were -- they were warning us about these death panels, where we're going to kill off grandma?
REID: Yes.
WILMORE: Now, apparently, killing grandma is a patriotic act, according to them.
(LAUGHTER)
WILMORE: Remember, they said, people need to die.
REID: You're right.
WILMORE: It's the best thing grandma could do, is offer her life.
It's like, what are you talking about?
REID: It is absolutely bananas. You're right. It is.
But, I mean, speaking of, like, herd mentality, so the herd you actually are going to need is when the vaccine comes out, right?
WILMORE: Yes.
REID: Then you're going to need people to, like, kind of be a herd, and say, we're all going to go out.
WILMORE: Yes.
REID: We're all going to get this vaccine for the greater good.
But if you can't get people to just wear a mask, which is literally nothing...
WILMORE: I know.
REID: ... and then they're acting like, you are destroying my life if you make me put a mask on, and then you add to that the legitimate concerns, I mean, I -- listen, I know a lot of black people that I'm related to and that I'm not related to.
(LAUGHTER)
WILMORE: Yes, right.
REID: And a lot of them go, I'm not taking a vaccine. I don't trust Trump, Trump had anything to do with it. No, no, no.
WILMORE: Right.
REID: Do you -- are you concerned that a lot of particularly African-Americans, but also people on the right, will say no to this vaccine?
WILMORE: I am concerned.
I mean, black people, even if they don't know about Tuskegee, they kind of have that Akashic memory of it, you know, where it's the thing that you described.
(LAUGHTER)
WILMORE: Plus, I don't feel like they're doing enough to make it palatable.
Like, they're saying Operation Warp Speed. Excuse me, but wasn't the black guy in the red shirt the first one to die on "Star Trek"? Why are you calling it Warp Speed?
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(CROSSTALK)
WILMORE: That's not the way to pull us in.
REID: No. Nope. Nope. Nope.
WILMORE: Call -- call it...
REID: And they always kill the black person first in the horror movie too. So, we...
WILMORE: Call it Operation I Have a Dream or something, but not Warp Speed.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: No, it's true, because we know, every horror movie, they kill the black person off first.
WILMORE: Exactly.
REID: So we're like, we're not going to be the black person in the horror movie. We're not going to do it, right?
WILMORE: Yes. And then the white people come in, and everything looks safe now. So...
(LAUGHTER)
WILMORE: But, Joy, the other thing is, too, I mean, this is coming from a president who blamed black people for stealing the election.
Do you think we want to get a vaccine from somebody who thinks we stole something from him?
(LAUGHTER)
WILMORE: I mean, right there, you are getting to be a little suspicious, you know?
REID: And Geraldo Rivera is like, the answer is to call the vaccine the Trump vaccine. Then you're going to make sure no black people get it. Nobody black is going to get a vaccine. Maybe Kanye, but nobody else.
WILMORE: Except rappers. Except the rappers.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Going to get it, but not Snoop Dogg.
WILMORE: Maybe it's part of the...
REID: Snoop is down.
(LAUGHTER)
WILMORE: It could be part of the Platinum Plan to just vaccinate the rappers first, you know, and then everybody will follow, Joy.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
WILMORE: That's probably what the Platinum Plan is.
I haven't read it all, so I really don't know. I can't say for sure.
REID: Apparently, you could read it all like during this segment, because it's like a page long. So, apparently, it doesn't have much in it.
WILMORE: Yes. Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: Let's talk about this apparent deal that's happening.
Are you concerned? Because there is a bit of a debate that some progressives -- I think Bernie Sanders and AOC are now sort of on the other sides of this of saying, pass something small, or say no, demand something real, right, something bigger, the $3 billion -- $3 trillion, like they first started out saying, give everybody that $1,200 back.
WILMORE: Yes.
REID: Like, do you think Democrats should hold out or say, let's take what we can get?
WILMORE: Well, they always say politics is the art of the possible, right?
And beyond that, people are hurting right now, Joy. And we can't play political games with it. People have lost their jobs. They have lost family members. They're not working now. You just showed the people lined up in food banks. As you say, that's real.
Not the time to be holding out to get rid of the good for the perfect. There's a time for that. Let's help people immediately in the best way that we can.
But, Joy, it doesn't have to end there. We can keep the help coming. It's not like it has to be the end-all/be-all perfect.
REID: Yes. Yes.
WILMORE: Let's help people now and keep helping them.
It's -- it is a shame that it's taken this long just to get this done. This should have been done like two months ago.
REID: Yes, a long time ago.
OK, tell us what you're going to have on the show tonight. Give us a preview.
WILMORE: Oh, tonight is so much fun. It's our last episode.
We had a special series that covered 11 weeks. We had the great Joy Reid on, who was fantastic, of course.
Tonight, we have with Kerry Washington and Sue Bird. And they're fantastic. I have them kind of looking forward, looking back a little bit, giving us some of their hopes and that type of thing. Sue, of course, was involved with the WNBA's protests of Loeffler and all that stuff.
REID: Yes.
WILMORE: And the branding they did was fantastic.
And then Gina Yashere, who is this fantastic comedian from London. Her show on CBS, "Bob Hearts Abishola," is -- joins me for a really fun lightning round.
So, it's really a fun episode. And thank you so much for bringing it up.
REID: Of course. And your show is great. It's a lot of fun.
Larry Wilmore, I always love talking with you. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you. Have a great weekend. Have a great show tonight, OK?
And the final episode of Larry's limited series "Wilmore" airs tonight on Peacock. Do not miss it.
And before we go, I want to end this week with "A Moment of Joy"
Retired orchestra teacher Grover Wilhelmsen, a COVID patient at a Utah hospital, wanted to thank his nurses and doctors for taking care of him. Now, since he was intubated and couldn't speak, he showed his appreciation in a very different way, by playing his violin.
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(MUSIC)
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REID: That's amazing.
That is tonight's REIDOUT.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.END
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