Transcript
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: So he`s amazing, so congrats on that.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Thank you. I didn`t mean to cut you off-guard. It is your time, you know?
REID: I mean, it`s -- that`s fair, firm but fair. I need to be ready for it. All right, thank you very much, man. Have a good evening.
MELBER: Peace.
REID: Good night.
All right, good evening. We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with a political party that is so nihilistic they`re literally willing to destroy the U.S. economy just to own the libs. Republicans are refusing to vote to increase the debt ceiling which could have catastrophic results. According to a report from Moody`s, a prolonged debt ceiling breach could cost up to 6 million jobs, wipe out $15 trillion in household wealth and surge the unemployment rate to 9 percent. It is so bad that six former treasury secretaries wrote a letter imploring Congress to extend the limit, saying that allowing an unprecedented default could cause serious economic harm.
Confronted with that reality Republicans say that, of course, the U.S. can`t default on its loans. But they refuse to help Democrats in any way.
Now, just two years ago, Mitch McConnell made it clear that the consequences of default would be dire, but now he`s saying, well, Republicans actually have no role to play in seeing the country stay afloat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you are expecting then to raise the debt ceiling one again?
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Of course. We will never have America default.
We will raise the debt ceiling because America can`t default. I mean, that would be a disaster.
The facts are indisputable. This is a totally Democratic government. They have an obligation to raise the debt ceiling and they will do it. Don`t play Russian roulette with our economy. Step up and raise the debt ceiling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Well, it`s clear it`s a straight up dereliction of duty. The thing is Mitch McConnell doesn`t actually care what happens to Americans. He sees an opportunity here for Democrats to be force to go it alone on increasing the debt limits so that he can run ads against them and get that Senate majority leader gavel back. That is really all that he cares about.
We already saw the beginning of it today with Republicans saying that this was a consequence of a liberal spending spree. Well, that`s a flat-out lie by the way. Part of the reason that Congress needs to raise the debt ceiling is to pay for the previous bipartisan COVID relief bill passed when Donald Trump was president, not to mention the fact that Democrats helped Republicans to raise the debt ceiling under Trump.
In fact, Republicans` dear leader increased the debt by 7.8 trillion with a T dollars including by jamming through a $1.5 trillion with a T tax cut for the rich. And right on cue, America`s most embarrassing retiree emerged from greens of whatever mediocre golf course he`s at right now to egg on Republicans to negotiate with the debt ceiling and force Democrats to, quote, concede all the horror they are trying to inflict upon the future of the U.S. I mean, I`m pretty sure Americans are still recovering from the horror that was the Trump presidency. As usual it`s an hypocritical statement. Trump once suggested getting rid of the debt ceiling entirely.
Republicans` argument that Democrats just go it alone may actually be impossible. The House Budget chair is saying there is not enough time to either write a standalone bill or to add a debt ceiling increase to reconciliation before October 1st, which is when the government will shut down if Republicans don`t pass the combined continuing resolution/debt ceiling bill that passed the House last night.
The treasury bill -- I mean, the treasury will reach its borrowing limit in mid-October without a debt ceiling increase. This comes as Democrats are confronting divisions within their party. President Biden spent his entire afternoon in meeting with Democratic leadership, moderates and progressives, to try to come up with an agreement on his major spending bill. Progressives are clear that they will not vote for the bipartisan infrastructure bill until their spending bill passes the Senate, while moderates are balking at the price tag and some of the provisions in the bill, including drug price reforms and tax increases on the rich and climate action. We are still waiting to hear what exactly came out of those discussions today.
Joining me now is NBC News Capitol Hill Correspondent Leigh Ann Caldwell, Jason Johnson, Professor of Politics and Journalist at Morgan State University, and Jennifer Rubin, Washington Post Opinion Columnist and author of the new book, Resistance, How Women Saved Democracy from Donald Trump.
Leigh Ann, I want to go to you first. What is the status of just the Democrat side of trying to decide what they can get done by October 1st?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, NBC NEWS CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Joy, this is -- I`ve been covering the Hill for a long time and this is one of the most complicated trapeze acts that Speaker Pelosi and Leader Schumer are trying to navigate. They have President Biden of their side, of course. So, by October 1st, they`re trying pass a bipartisan traditional infrastructure bill, a $3.5 trillion human infrastructure bill, keep the government open and lift the debt limit or at least suspend the debt limit.
[19:05:14]
Now, all of these things are colliding into each other and how they get out of it, it`s not completely clear. As you mentioned, a lot of lawmakers are at the White House today talking to President Biden, who is finally engaged in these discussions and the little readout we`ve received so far mostly from Speaker Pelosi and Leader Schumer and then separately also some of the moderates, there hasn`t been a lot of consensus that has been agreed to, including what the top line number is going to be of this reconciliation bill, if it`s going to be 3.5 trillion or if it`s going to be less.
And he`s meeting with the progressives right now and that`s going to be a critical meeting because they are taking a very stark stand in their opposition to this bipartisan bill until they get a vote on this human infrastructure bill. And I don`t see how -- Speaker Pelosi is good at her job but this is probably one of her most difficult task yet.
REID: Leigh Ann Caldwell, thank you very much, I really appreciate that. It is a trapeze act but if there is one person we know is good at the old trapeze, it`s Speaker Pelosi. So, thank you very much, I really appreciate that reporting.
All right, let me go to you first on this, Jason, because it is a trapeze act that Democrats have to pull off. And let`s just be clear. We`re only talking about one party doing this because there is only one governing party left in the country. Republicans have made it clear not just to their base, to the lunatic fringe that worships Donald Trump, but, by the way, also to their own donors, to Wall Street, to the business community, to the Chamber of Commerce, whoever is wide awake understands that Republicans are a completely irresponsible when it comes to the economy. The fact that they would even play games with not raising the debt limit means they are off the table as responsible grownups, period. So this isn`t about Democrats.
The Democrats have to try to figure out this $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. We`ll put it up on the screen. Again, it`s Medicare expansion, paid family leave, universal pre-K, free community college, extended child tax credit, child care, et cetera, pathway for undocumented immigrants, all of that stuff. While at the same time, as Adam Jentleson points out, you`ve got some moderates some of whom get that good, good drug company money who are like, no, we don`t want to do that. They`re trying to derail this big bill, which could include everything, in theory, including maybe everything could go in that bill, but they`re like, no, we don`t like it, while it progressives who are saying we`re willing to play ball with the president. How do you see this all playing out?
JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC HOST: So this is -- we can`t state enough how important this is. It`s nice to hear that President Biden is actually sitting down and having meetings with people, but this all goes back to the fact that, one, yes, as you said, there is really only one governing coalition, because if any Republicans in the Senate said they would get along with this, you can get the debt ceiling passed, you get most of these things passed if Republicans weren`t just going to be in lockstep with Mitch McConnell.
The other problem that you have on the Democratic side though is that you essentially have three factions. You have your sort of moderate Republicans. You have your progressive Republicans. You have your moderate Democrats, you have your progressive Democrats in the House and then you have your conservative Democrats, like Joe Manchin. Now, he gets along better with his friends who are seemingly Republicans when it comes to issues like the $3.5 trillion that we need for human infrastructure, but if he can`t come to an agreement or he can`t be used as a way to sort of convince the other conservative Democrats behind him who are hiding, none of this stuff gets done.
And I also want to point out in the midst of this Joy, that also we saw the end of police reform happened today. There are a lot of very important legislative things that have to be accomplished in the next two weeks or this could basically -- you can`t doom a presidency, but, legislatively, if they don`t get it done now, they`re not going to get it done next year or during a midterm election.
REID: The difference between now, Jennifer, and all the times that I have been observing politics and probably that you have as well, is that we are now no longer talking about two parties negotiating how to govern the country. We`re literally having a conversation about a sort of unicameral government with some sort of a lunatic sort of cult near it that looks like it`s in the government and it`s dressed up like it`s in the government and it gets a salary from the taxpayers like it`s part of the government but it ain`t the government.
You now have House leadership whipping against -- they`re whipping against not the $3.5 trillion. Let`s put that aside. That`s off the table. That`s reconciliation. They`re whipping against the regular old bipartisan Senate infrastructure bill. They`re whipping against bridges and roads for their own districts, Jennifer.
JENNIFER RUBIN, OPINION WRITER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, you are right. This is nihilism on steroids.
[19:10:00]
These people don`t give a fig about the country. They think that this is all about owning the libs, embarrassing the libs and crashing the country, of course.
But you said there is something interesting. You said there`s one party that`s governing. The problem is that party can`t really govern when you have the filibuster. So if Republicans are going to declare themselves totally responsible, not going to even vote on the debt ceiling, not going to do the basic functions, then why give then the filibuster? The filibuster is supposed to promote debate, compromise. They`re making the best argument I could make, probably better that I could, that they are totally irresponsible and it`s insanity to give them a veto power over a party that is legitimately trying to govern when they don`t have a plan for governance and their idea is crash the economy, crash democracy and just say no to everything.
So, I think if Democrats can finally get Mr. Manchin to acknowledge that he is not dealing with the 1950s version of the Republican Party or even the 1990s version Republican Party, that he is dealing with people who are on a mission to destroy America, maybe that would finally make an impact on him when they`re talking about getting rid of the filibuster. They are simply trying to, as you say, own the libs and they take the country down the tube, oh, well, that`s the cost of doing business.
REID: Well, I mean -- and you know what, I`ll make you an even finer point of it, Jason. I will correct myself. It isn`t one party governing. It is one part of the government, that means the House of Representatives, which is passing bills like a normal branch of government, which is passing reforms that are supported by the majority of Americans, whether it`s climate, police reform. They`ve already passed all of this, voting reform. It`s just one piece of the government that`s functioning.
The Senate ain`t functioning because within that body, you have Democrats that seem more married to allowing Republicans to wreck the car than pulling the damn car over. I`ve never seen anything like this. There is a faction in the Democratic Party, the Manchin, Sinema, and whoever is with faction, that seems more interested in standing back and forcing the rest of their party to allow Republicans to wreck the economy, to let them ruin the country, to let them end democracy. I don`t get it.
JOHNSON: Joy, no matter how much push back Trent Lott occasionally gave to George Bush, no matter how much John McCain was occasionally a thorn on the side of Donald Trump, we have never seen the kind of internal obstructionusm to a president of the same party as we`ve seen between Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema and what is happening with Joe Biden right now.
What we are seeing between the House and Senate, which are both controlled by Democrats, as we keep pointing out, and the presidency, which is controlled by Democrats, it`s like the worst high school group project ever where you have one side that did all the assignment and they`re ready to go and the other side is like, I don`t like the font and they`re just not going to let anything happen, and that`s the problem.
Now, whether or not Joe Biden can come in and sort of whip everybody into accomplishing their job, it speaks to a larger issue here, which is you have one party that understands power, which is the Republicans. They recognize they have power to obstruct and they have the power to do nothing and the Democrats can`t seem to figure out what power is or how to use it.
REID: Or how to use it. And they don`t seem to want to, Jennifer. They don`t seem to want to use power and, again, it`s not the House. Pelosi`s team is ready to work. They`re working. They`re passing bill after bill after bill, but the United States Senate is now -- it`s been captured by people like Manchin and Sinema, who I can`t figure out their strategy other than let the Republicans wreck the country, and I don`t understand why that that is what they seem to prefer.
RUBIN: They have convinced themselves that the way they survive in their states is by allowing Republicans to wreck the country. This makes no sense. If Republicans were negotiating for, say, less than $3.5 trillion or they are negotiating maybe we modify the prescription drug provision, that would be one thing. That should be showing their constituents back home, that they`re going to be fiscally responsible, that they`re not simply going to rubber stamp those liberal progressive leaders.
But that`s not what is going on. What they`re doing is that they`re conspiring with Republicans so that they would have nothing, that the things that even they have run on that they want to get done would not get done. So maybe this is some super duper sleight of hand to Manchin the final say on what`s in the bill but I don`t see it right now. I see him being a spoiler and a presidency, a democracy unfortunately rests in the balance.
REID: And when Republicans, if this helps them take back over, Manchin and Sinema need to understand all that Mitch McConnell wants are more far right wing judges, more Hand Maid`s Tale judges, and that is all he`s going to do, it`s all he ever wanted in that gavel.
[19:15:10]
Jason Johnson and Jennifer Rubin, thank you very much. And you all check out, Resistance, How Women Save Democracy from Donald Trump. That`s Jennifer`s new book.
Up next on THE REIDOUT, what kind of person sues his own niece for telling the truth? Oh, well, you already know the answer to that one. But is his desperate lawsuit a tacit admission that he cheated on his taxes?
Plus, the latest from the death cult, as Ron DeSantis picks an anti-mask, anti-vaxist doctor to be his surgeon general.
Also, the police reform legislation named for George Floyd will not become law. The behind the scenes sabotage that brought it down.
And a few hints on tonight`s absolute worst, pizza, COVID and crocodiles.
THE REIDOUT continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
REID: NBC News confirms that Donald Trump has sued "The New York Times," as well as his own niece, Mary Trump, over a 2018 report that shattered the illusion of him as a self-made billionaire.
[19:20:09]
With just a touch of hyperbole, Trump accuses them of engaging in an insidious plot to obtain confidential, highly sensitive records which they exploited for their own benefit.
He alleges that by leaking his tax records, Mary Trump, and, by extension, "The Times" broke a two-decades-old confidentiality agreement. And he`s claiming that -- he`s claiming a preposterous sum in damages of no less than $100 million.
But that so-called insidious plot that Trump alleges, that`s called journalism. And by suing "The Times," Trump has essentially confirmed their reporting.
Now, keep in mind that the story exposed Trump as a tax cheat who inherited as well through fraud, which, of course, he denied and called fake news. But if the reporting wasn`t true, he`d have sued for defamation, right, which he notably did not do.
Responding to a suit in an interview with The Daily Beast, Mary Trump called her uncle a -- quote -- "F`ing loser," saying: "He`s going to throw anything against the wall he can. It`s desperation."
Legal experts also say that Trump should be careful what he wishes for. He`s staking his claim on a nondisclosure agreement that may not hold up under scrutiny. And that scrutiny is sure to entail multiple depositions, under oath, which he might want to avoid.
Joining me now, Tristan Snell, former New York assistant attorney general who helped lead the prosecution of Trump University, and David Cay Johnston, who has written extensively on Trump and is co-founder of DCReport.org.
David, Mary Trump`s lawyer today said the following: "This is the latest in a long line of frivolous lawsuits by Donald Trump that target truthful speech and important journalism on issues of public concern. It`s doomed to failure, like the rest of his baseless efforts to chill freedom of speech and of the press."
I feel like this is a giant tell by Trump that he`s really, really angry that he was exposed for the broke-ness that really engulfs him.
(LAUGHTER)
DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, AUTHOR, "THE MAKING OF DONALD TRUMP": Yes.
REID: Your thoughts.
JOHNSTON: Well, this is another gambit by Donald to stay in front of his dwindling supporters.
They haven`t dwindled a lot, but they are starting to dwindle. He needs to raise money. He`s become America`s beggar in chief. And there is no case here against "The Times." And my law school students are going to examine this case, I assure, in the spring semester.
But he has exposed himself to two big problems. One is, of course, discovery and being questioned or oath. But the second one is, the courts have already held basically that Mary Trump can`t be stopped by the nondisclosure agreement. She may suffer some civil penalties, if Donald wants to sue her over it.
But we could end up with a court decision that says all your NDAs are worthless.
REID: That would be interesting.
Tristan, let me let you listen to Donald Trump, because here`s the thing that`s weird. He`s saying that he was injured to the tune of $100 million because his tax returns got out. But here`s what he previously said about his tax returns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Are you going to release your tax returns?
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At the appropriate time, I will release them.
I will absolutely give my returns, but I`m being audited now. I will release them when the audit is completed. When the audit is complete, I will do it. But I would love to give the tax returns. I would love to give them. But I`m not going to do it while I`m under audit. It`s very simple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Mr. Snell, I am not a lawyer, nor am I a former assistant attorney general, but can you sue somebody for doing something that you said you were going to do yourself?
TRISTAN SNELL, FORMER NEW YORK ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well...
(LAUGHTER)
SNELL: ... it just makes him -- it makes him look foolish.
You can sue them, but it doesn`t mean you`re going to win. I think the real issue here is going to be that you can trot a nondisclosure provision out there. But if that provision was obtained by fraud, then it`s no good. You can avoid it. And that, I think, is going to be what a lot of this hinges on, is this reopens this huge Pandora`s box of what happened 20 years ago with the estate of Fred Trump, and what was said to whom.
And then that opens up all sorts of issues with discovery and depositions, like you were saying.
REID: And, I mean, David, the story on Trump -- and we have talked about this a lot on my previous show and when I have had one before -- is that the whole myth of him as being this self-made billionaire wasn`t true.
It`s not even clear he ever was a billionaire, that he ever made it to the billion status, but that isn`t the risk here that the more he talks and the more discovery that happens, the more he sues, the more that story is unraveled, and it just turns out he inherited $300 million and lost it, and that`s just the story, and then he got a TV show?
JOHNSTON: Well, that`s how you and I and rational people will see this.
But people who have bought into Donald Trump, what a better tactic than to go after the evil "New York Times."
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSTON: What a horrible anti-American instance, because it deals in verifiable facts.
[19:25:04]
And he will use this to raise money, which he desperately needs to do. And I got to tell you, I hope his lawyers got big fees up front. These are not his regular lawyers, if Donald has the regular lawyers anymore, because Donald is notorious for not paying his lawyers.
REID: He`s not going to pay them.
JOHNSTON: Just ask Rudy.
REID: Yes, he`s not going to pay them.
They need to understand. I hope -- when they do this, I hope they`re doing it for publicity and for the fame, because they are not going to get paid. They just need to understand that.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: No.
The Daily Beast has a story for you, Tristan. Prosecutors have discovered a tranche of evidence in the basement of a co-conspirator in the Trump Organization tax fraud case, a defense lawyer for indicted CFO Allen Weisselberg revealed in court on Monday.
And here`s a quote here. He said: "We have strong reason to believe there could be other indictments."
From your point of view, does it look like there might be more indictments stemming from this Weisselberg case?
SNELL: Oh, yes, for sure.
Again, that was just the tip of a much larger iceberg. Weisselberg is going to get indicted more. It`s not just indictments against other people. It`s more indictments. It`s what`s called a superseding indictment. You do another indictment on top of the old one, and you charge them with a whole bunch more stuff.
Weisselberg is going to get charged with more stuff. So is the Trump Organization, and then there`s going to be other additional defendants. That`s all just a matter of time.
REID: And, David, I have been of the unpopular opinion that I do not believe Donald Trump would run for president again, unless he can be guaranteed that he would win, right, if the Republicans fix all of the mechanisms, from local all the way up to the federal system to make it so that he cannot lose. He doesn`t want to be a loser again, right?
But my question is, let`s say that for people who do think he`s going to run, do you think, based on having covered him a long time, is -- would he run for president again with all of this hanging on him, the indictments of his businesses, potential legal trouble out of Georgia for his own interference in the election?
With all the legal issues he has, is he more likely to try to run for president to indemnify himself using the presidency, or to really focus on his money problems?
JOHNSTON: Well, I will not be the least bit surprised if Donald runs again. And he may even get the Republicans to nominate him again, because they blew their opportunity on January 6 to separate themselves from him.
But between now and the 2024 election, he`s going to be indicted, probably more than once. New York state`s almost certainly going to bring a racketeering charge, an Article 460 case, against him under New York state law. And he`s going to have lots of other problems.
But in Donald`s mind, he`s done nothing wrong. Remember, he once was asked, well, since you say you`re such a devout Christian and reads the Bible more than anyone else, when did you ask God for forgiveness? And Donald said, ask God for forgiveness?
REID: Yes.
JOHNSTON: I have never done anything that would require asking for forgiveness.
He lives in this world of invented reality. He`s deeply mentally ill and delusional. And we`re seeing his delusions play out.
REID: He thinks 2 Corinthians is the thing. What, is he going to run from Rikers?
(LAUGHTER)
REID: We will see. Maybe. Maybe he can run from Rikers. His people would probably love that.
Tristan Snell and David Cay Johnston, thank you both very much.
SNELL: Thank you.
REID: All right, still ahead: Florida`s new surgeon general is openly hostile to the vaccine and to mask mandates, which makes him the obvious choice in a state led by Governor Ron DeSantis.
THE REIDOUT continues after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:32:09]
REID: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has made it clear just how uninvested he is in ending the pandemic in his state, appointing a new top health -- a top health official whose ideas are right out of the DeSantis playbook titled how to not stop COVID.
DeSantis named Dr. Joseph Ladapo Florida`s new surgeon general. And the doctor said -- quote -- "Florida will completely reject fear when it comes to COVID policies."
Dr. Ladapo, who, like old killer Ron, opposes mask and vaccine mandates, says there`s too much emphasis on vaccination -- quote -- "hit`s been treated almost like a religion. And that`s just senseless," he said.
The Sunshine State`s new top doctor already issued a rule ending the state`s required school quarantine after COVID exposure, saying it`s up to parents to decide. In a series of op-eds, Dr. Ladapo argued against vaccine mandates, questioned the vaccine in general, and called society`s response an overreaction.
It`s no surprise Ron found a doctor who will tell him exactly what he wants to hear, since this particular doctor has been affiliated with a group of DeSantis BFFs that the most infamous Florida retiree was also infatuated with.
America`s front-line doctors, who held an event last summer touting the former president`s bogus miracle cure hydroxychloroquine, he and his failson Don Jr. sent it viral.
The video was scrubbed from social media sites for misinformation, and we`re only showing part of it because Florida`s new surgeon general was a speaker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JOSEPH LADAPO, FLORIDA SURGEON GENERAL: The perspective most people have been hearing is that hydroxychloroquine doesn`t work, right?
I believed that perspective too, until I started talking to doctors who would look more closely -- some of the physicians behind me here, who would look more closely at the data and at the studies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: If you have forgotten why that little presser was so famous, or really infamous, aside from the misinformation, one of those doctors behind him, Dr. Stella Immanuel, has made claims that alien DNA is being used in medical treatment, and certain gynecologic issues stem from people being exposed to demon sperm while having relations with the beasties during their dreams.
Really?
Joining me now, Dr. Uche Blackstock, physician and CEO of Advancing Health Equity, and Fernand Amandi -- you can`t make it up -- Democratic pollster and executive vice president of Bendixen & Amandi International in La Florida.
Uche Blackstock, Dr. Blackstock you know this Dr. Ladapo. I don`t know if he`s a clinician who actually treats patients. He is a researcher at UCLA specializing in heart disease, not in infectious diseases.
Your thoughts on him and his qualifications and the things that he says and believes.
DR. UCHE BLACKSTOCK, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Joy, I will say that when I saw the article listing him as the new surgeon general for Florida, I was just absolutely shocked.
[19:35:05]
And after I was shocked, I was incredibly upset. I mean, I have known him since medical school. He is -- as you can see that in video, he`s a nice guy. He`s actually quite, quite smart. And he has the educational pedigree.
However, he is delivering misinformation the same way other folks are. But the danger is that now he is in a government position. And he`s in a position to actually recommend policies and to help enforce policies. And we knew that Governor DeSantis would choose someone like him.
And I think he`s the perfect person for Governor DeSantis, because he`s Harvard-educated. People can say, look at -- oh, look at his pedigree. And he`s a black man.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: He`s giving me Harvard shame, by the way. Yes, he`s giving me Harvard shame, because -- but here`s the thing.
(CROSSTALK)
REID: Go on.
BLACKSTOCK: No, no, go ahead. Go ahead.
REID: Well, what I was going to say is that you said -- mentioned him being a black man.
That actually is what frightens me all the more, because Florida already has some discrepancy problems when it comes to African-Americans getting vaccinated and also dying from COVID.
BLACKSTOCK: Right.
REID: You already have in the case -- in the reelect for the Florida -- the -- I`m sorry -- one of the Florida special elections that`s coming up right now, that`s coming up, is going to actually have vaccinations at it, because they`re trying to encourage African-Americans to get vaccinated, because black folks are actually dying disproportionately from COVID in Florida.
BLACKSTOCK: Right.
REID: So, to me having a black man, a black doctor be the face of anti- vaccine and anti-mask is actually more dangerous.
BLACKSTOCK: Right.
REID: So, sorry, your thoughts?
BLACKSTOCK: Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely.
I mean, especially in rural Florida, we have huge discrepancies in terms of who is receiving vaccines. And we know that not enough black Floridians are getting vaccinated. And so now we have a black physician as surgeon general giving out misinformation, discouraging vaccinations.
And so -- which is even more dangerous and incredibly more harmful to our community. And the fact is, is that Dr. Ladapo actually believes in this idea that we should just abandon all mitigation measures and let the virus spread. And when that happens, who is the most affected by that?
Those are the most vulnerable and the most marginalized.
REID: Yes.
BLACKSTOCK: It`s people that look like you and me.
REID: Absolutely.
And, Fernand, we just put up the numbers there. I mean, only 32, 35, 33 percent of black Floridians are vaccinated; 49 percent of white residents over 12 are vaccinated. So it`s going to hurt -- black residents are already hurting more.
I want to just ask you about, this American Frontline Doctors. This is a group. This is what "TIME" magazine wrote about them: "The American Frontline Doctors have been a leading promoter of ivermectin, a medication typically used to treat parasitic worms in livestock, since its founding last year by a Los Angeles physician who was arrested during the January 6 attack on the Capitol."
This is a woman, Dr. Simone Gold.
"America`s Frontline Doctors has nurtured medical conspiracies in right- wing circles."
So they`re pitching the -- and they`re also -- I mean, I worry about this one political point of view. And I wonder what you think as well.
FERNAND AMANDI, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER AND STRATEGIST: I mean, there`s certainly a reason for worry.
But one thing I want to make sure that everybody understands, Governor Ron DeSantis is vaccinated, right? Everyone on his staff is vaccinated. I`d like to know if this new surgeon general of Florida is vaccinated.
(CROSSTALK)
AMANDI: And I think it speaks to the fact that, A, the con is still very much on in Florida.
But more importantly, Joy, I think this almost goes a little bit even beyond the trolling that they`re doing here and maybe even more than the MAGA death cult stuff that we can laugh about here with the demon seed and the ivermectin.
Understand also as well, one of Ron DeSantis` largest donors is pushing a for-profit alternative to the vaccine.
REID: Yes.
AMANDI: So there`s that performative element going on here.
I think another thing is happening now. And you have to take into consideration the calendar. This is really now a pandemic of the unvaccinated, right? You mentioned some of them overindex with African- Americans and poor. And that`s sad.
But remember also this is sort of an announcement that is kind of like a MAGA bat signal. You also have Ron DeSantis saying for people, whether he`s going to be on the ballot a year-and-a-half from now in the election in Florida or three years from now, when he runs for president, hey, Florida is where you want to come.
REID: Right.
AMANDI: Florida`s a place that you want to, in essence, recolonize.
So, yes, there`s some politics going on here. There`s also some political calculation. Don`t forget the calendar as well. With the announcement that children`s vaccines will now be available in October, I think DeSantis is betting the Delta variant is behind him, he can kind of loosen the reins, play politics here a little bit.
And that`s what you see with this very cynical choice of this very cynical surgeon general, who I -- again, I think he`s probably as vaccinated as Ron DeSantis and is still putting out this junk science as fact.
REID: Fernand, to stay with you just for a moment, because you mentioned -- and I have been looking -- we have been looking a lot into this story as well.
[19:40:00]
Does it feel like Ron DeSantis` strategy -- I mean, the fact that he`s going to say that parents can make the decision to send their children to school, even if they have been exposed to COVID, meaning they could get a lot of other children sick -- and I know you, as a parent, that`s got to be alarming and send up alarms.
But he does seem to be pushing -- and hiring this guy feels like he`s pushing maximum infection, and then pushing people to get this treatment that happens to be what his largest donor makes money from.
That is very suspicious to me. I don`t know if it is to you.
AMANDI: Well, I mean, always with this MAGA criminal syndicate, you got to follow the money.
And the money trail, I think, is crystal clear. Joy, there`s another element, though. People say, why on earth would Ron DeSantis be engaging in this desperately bad politics? I mean, he`s obviously taken a little bit of a hit in the polls, even in Florida.
And, again, the other element here is, I think he`s playing for time. He hasn`t really been held accountable for the surge. Remember, Florida now is the number one state in the United States with deaths from COVID.
REID: Yes.
AMANDI: More Floridians have died from COVID than all Americans did during the Vietnam War. I mean, think about that for a second.
And yet DeSantis hasn`t really been held accountable, in the same way that Trump really hasn`t been held accountable or the Republican Party for the events of January 6. So there is a sense of impunity here as well, and pushing all of their chips on the table and just playing these base politics, because, right now, they`re not being held to account.
Let`s be honest.
REID: And -- but -- and people are dying as a result. It`s a hell of a game to play with people`s lives. It`s terrifying.
Dr. Uche Blackstock, Fernand Amandi, thank you both very much.
All right, tonight`s "Absolute Worst" is still ahead, as a foreign leader brings his COVID-loving ways to the big Apple.
But, first, it`s looking like bipartisan talks about a police reform bill have completely collapsed, with no plan C waiting in the wings.
More after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:01]
REID: It took convicted murderer Derek Chauvin nine minutes and 29 seconds to press his knee into George Floyd`s neck.
The video of that horrific moment sparked a racial reckoning. But even that wasn`t enough to motivate Senate Republicans. Today, Democratic Senator Cory Booker called his Republican, counterpart South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, and told him that Democrats were done with negotiating on the police reform bill.
Scott refused to accept the Democrats` final offer on the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act. Here`s Senator Booker earlier today.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): It was clear that we were not making the progress that we needed to make to give America what I think the largest civil rights protests we have had in our country`s history demands for substantive, meaningful reform.
There were still things I was hoping to do. But when I couldn`t get to a point where I could meet with families and tell them that we were going to address the specific issues that were putting -- that put your family member in harm`s way. This is not -- this pathway now seems to be closed.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
REID: Democrats have been negotiating with Senator Scott in good faith for months.
The key sticking point was qualified immunity, which shields police officers from civil liability for professional misconduct. The most recent version of the bill was a slimmed-down version that did not include qualified immunity reform, the criminalization of excessive use of force and no-knock warrants.
Lawyers for the Floyd family called the decision extremely disappointing and urged Democrats to bring the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act to the floor for a vote, so Americans can see who is looking out for their communities` best interests.
It`s been more than a year since Floyd`s murder changed the dynamic around conversations about policing in America. Today, that conversation came to a sad and uneventful end, at least for now.
For more, I`m joined by the Reverend Al Sharpton, host of MSNBC`s "POLITICS NATION" and president of the National Action Network.
And, Rev., Senator Tim Scott is blaming Democrats for this. He`s blaming them for walking away and throwing around a lot of language about Democrats wanting to defund the police, which was not a part of this bill at all.
But I wonder what you make of it, as somebody who was at the table during a lot of this process. There are all of these different police agencies that all have to be negotiated with. NBC did a piece talking about it. You have got the national police unions. You have got the national sheriff`s associations. You have got to separate chief of police organizations.
And instead of all unifying around the negotiations and all deciding what they wanted to do, they all have sort of taken different tacks on what they want. I don`t know if you have this perception, but it feels like Tim Scott was sort of negotiating with Lindsey Graham over whether they could get the sheriffs to go along with one thing, while Cory Booker was negotiating with the chiefs of police on another thing.
It seems like this might have been doomed from the start.
REV. AL SHARPTON, HOST, "POLITICS NATION": Many of us felt that it was doomed.
But we gave them the time to deal with this. And we see the results of that particular path, which is why we called on them to call the vote. We want them to have on the record who is supporting real substantive police reform.
Let`s not forget, most Americans polled, after seeing the video of Chauvin`s knee on George Floyd`s neck, nine minutes and 29 seconds, say something must be done. And the courts did what they are supposed to do. They convicted Chauvin of murder "two, murder three and manslaughter.
The Senate is saying let it go the way it is, the Senate Republicans, . We need to have a roll call on what the Democrats say. It is unbelievable to us, when you saw blacks and whites, people of all backgrounds, marching all over the world.
We ended the summer last year, 200,000 people marched with Martin Luther King III and I in Washington on this bill and on police reform. And they are going to turn around and negotiate with just police unions and the national sergeants and have them veto qualified immunity?
[19:50:04]
So, in other words, we want to protect you. But who`s going to protect the people? That is unacceptable. And we`re going to keep driving this and force this to a vote. We want to know who`s on the side of protecting the American people.
We`re not against all police, but, apparently, they`re against all levels of accountability.
REID: You know, I kind of feel like Senator Tim Scott was sort of in the Joe Manchin seat on this, because he was sort of making it sound like he could deliver, because what had to be delivered, since this is not going to fall under the reconciliation rules, because of Joe Manchin, he would have had to deliver 10 Republicans.
And he was sort of making it sound like he could. But if he couldn`t even get Lindsey Graham to back him up with the sheriffs and felt like he was undercut by his fellow South Carolina senator, if he couldn`t get Lindsey Graham to go along with the ideas, I wonder if he was the right guy to be negotiating with.
And do you think we need to also start having that reconciliation conversation about police reform that we`re having about voting rights?
SHARPTON: I think we must have that conversation about reconciliation.
And reconciliation and carve-outs really depend on how it deals with budgets. Well, policemen deal with budgets.
REID: Yes.
SHARPTON: We`re paying billions of dollars a year for law enforcement, and we have no accountability. We cannot redress any of what they`re doing.
That affects the budgets. And it`s not about defunding the police. It`s about funding police abuse and saying they`re not going to be accountable. No one, I believe, can say with a straight face that what they saw happen with Chauvin was right.
But it happened with Eric Garner in New York, same thing, a choke hold. One was a knee. The other was a man`s armpit. But the results were the same, and countless other acts. So it`s time for us to know who is in the Senate and be able to hold them accountable at the polls, which is why the voting rights movement that we`re engaged in is so important.
But clearly, today, we lost a round, but the fight is far from over.
REID: Do you know what the family`s sort of state of mind is? Are they ready to start a whole `nother round of this?
SHARPTON: I believe that, from my talking to family members, they are absolutely committed to it.
And as Philonise Floyd said from the beginning, that there must be qualified immunity.
REID: Yes.
SHARPTON: Unless policemen know that they are at risk, just as citizens are at risk -- they lost their brother, their uncle, their father, and that you`re going to tell me a policeman has no risk to do whatever they want, which has now been convicted in a state of law?
REID: Yes, indeed.
Reverend Al Sharpton, always appreciate you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate you being here this evening.
SHARPTON: Thank you.
REID: Thank you.
All right, tonight`s "Absolute Worst" is next, but, first, a quick update on the Haitian refugees seeking asylum at our Southern border.
The White House confirmed today that the border agents seen herding migrants like cattle have been placed on administrative leave while the incident is being investigated.
We`re also learning that, while many of those migrants are being sent back to Haiti, thousands more are being allowed to seek asylum here in the U.S.
We`re going to have much more on this important story tomorrow night. Do not miss it.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:20]
REID: Remember Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro? We have mentioned him on the show before, the far right populist who touts unproven COVID treatments, who says COVID is just like a little flu. And, oh, yes, he`s a climate denier who has permitted the widespread burning of the Amazon rain forest, the Trump of the Tropics, indeed.
Needless to say, he is not vaccinated. He says he doesn`t need it because he recovered from a mild case of COVID last year, which, for the record, is a false claim, along with his warning that the vaccine can turn you into a crocodile. That`s right, a crocodile. Google it.
This week, he -- we saw proof that New York`s ban on unvaccinated indoor diners also applies to heads of state. Without the jab, Bolsonaro was forced to eat pizza while standing on a sidewalk. Talk about your real-life pizza rat, because Bolsonaro, while in New York for the U.N. General Assembly, defied the rule that those entering the U.N. be fully vaccinated under an honor system.
Oh, it doesn`t stop there. Far from it. On Tuesday, Brazil`s health minister became the second member of Brazil`s delegation to test positive for COVID. This was hours after escorting Bolsonaro to the General Assembly, where, as you can see, the Brazilian president spoke, unmasked.
Bolsonaro also met with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who urged the vaccine denier to, you know, just get the damn vaccine. The two shake hands, because, apparently, we`re still doing that, before Johnson left to meet President Biden at the White House.
Now, here`s the thing. Many of us, we take seriously the issue of people like you, Bolsonaro, potentially risking the lives of world leaders and their staffers, many of whom attended that very U.N. meeting to help eradicate COVID, while you spread misinformation on the world stage.
It isn`t just COVID. It`s the misinformation that kills. Brazil has the second highest COVID death toll in the world, behind only, you know, the United States, because we too are grappling with a major political party peddling horse paste and death. Horse paste. Crocodiles. What the heck is going on here?
This is why bad COVID leadership fueled by misinformation remains the "Absolute Worst."
Bolsonaro is back home in COVID isolation. Hope you enjoyed your sidewalk pizza, dude. Now, please stay home and don`t come back soon.
And that`s tonight`s REIDOUT.
Be sure to check out THE REIDOUT blog for Ja`han`s absolute dishonorable mentions, the "Absolute Worst" dishonorable mentions, and his reasons why you should delete your Facebook account now.
"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" -- oh, my God -- starts now.
(LAUGHTER)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST: Tonight on ALL IN:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If only one comes to me, I`m not -- if this is the only thing that comes to me, I`m not signing it. It`s in tandem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The all-out battle for the Biden agenda, the Republicans trying to kill the whole thing, and the Democrats holding one of the most popular parts hostage.