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Transcript: The ReidOut, 8/2/21

Guests: Peter Hotez, Nikki Fried, Tim Ryan, Alex Padilla, William Barber

Summary

As officials explore their options to try to limit recent increases in coronavirus cases, some business owners are taking matters into their own hands, requiring customers to wear masks or even requiring proof of vaccination for their employees. The guidelines also call on all schools to require masks for students, teachers and visitors, and districts around the country tried to navigate the latest advice. Former Trump White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows told Newsmax that the former president has been holding meetings with his "cabinet" despite not being president. Sen. Alex Padilla of California is interviewed.

Transcript

JONATHAN CAPEHART, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, everyone. I`m Jonathan Capehart in for Joy Reid.

We begin to read out tonight with new urgency in the fight against COVID with the U.S. crossing the 35 million COVID-19 Kate`s milestone late Sunday. Today, the White House said 70% of all U.S. adults have had at least one vaccine dose. Almost a month after President Biden`s original goal of reaching that mark by July 4th. One of those vaccines went to Senator Lindsey Graham who announced today that he tested positive for COVID. The Senator added he is quote very glad he was vaccinated saying his symptoms would otherwise be far worse. It`s a message the public health community is desperate to get out that the vaccine is highly effective, despite the fact that breakthrough infections can happen. They are for one very rare.

According to data collected by NBC News breakthrough infections in 38. States represent and listen to this number less than .08% of the 164 million plus people who`ve been fully vaccinated. And the number of cases - - the number of cases and deaths among the vaccinated is very small compared to the number among the unvaccinated with the former Biden advisor on COVID-19 estimating that 98 to 99% of deaths are among the unvaccinated.

The Delta variant, however, is much more transmission -- transmissible and extremely dangerous, especially for the unvaccinated which is why we are seeing those mask mandates pop up again. The San Francisco Bay area has reinstated an indoor mask mandate. And Louisiana a state that is running out of ICU beds as COVID cases surge will be back under a statewide mask mandate starting Wednesday.

The nation`s leading infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci doesn`t think we`ll see a repeat of 2020. But he did share that things look grim in the months ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NIAID: I don`t think we`re going to see lock downs. I think we have enough of the percentage of people in the country not enough to crush the outbreak. But I believe enough to not allow us to get into the situation we were in last winter. But things are going to get worse.

We`re looking to some pain and suffering in the future because we`re seeing the cases go up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAPEHART: Joining me now is Dr. Kavita Patel, a physician and a former Obama White House Health Policy Director, and Dr. Peter Hotez infectious disease specialists and co-director of the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children`s Hospital. Thank you both very much for being here.

Dr. Patel, I`ll start with you. And just to get your thoughts on the mask mandates that are popping back up. We just talked about San Francisco, the state of Louisiana. The CDC recommending people wear masks indoors. Your thoughts on that?

KAVITA PATEL, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Jonathan, good to be with you tonight. I fully support these and not even mandate, I would just say to me, it`s, I would say universally, I know the CDC has really recommended indoor masking for places with substantial or high transmission. Jonathan, it`s very hard to know to how to look up where you are and what your caseload is in your county. And it`s just simpler to say, while we are all kind of going through this surge. And if you`re in a place like Florida, Jonathan, it`s the worst it`s ever been than the first two waves. Not as bad as the winter wave yet.

So, I`m fully supportive of it. What I`m scared of are the states like Florida like Texas, that have gone out of their way to not allow for even school --

CAPEHART: Right.

PATEL: -- to put in mask requirements.

CAPEHART: And right, Dr. Hotez, your thoughts on mask mandates, but also what Dr. Patel is talking about what`s happening in states like Florida, where the governor is going out of his way to prevent local officials from doing what they see is in the best interests of the people who live in their cities and towns.

PETER HOTEZ, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: Yes, yes, that`s absolutely right Jonathan, this is the scary part. Now we are seeing a very worrisome surge across the southern states and it`s going into giant shape of a U going starting in Missouri down the Arkansas and Louisiana cutting across East into Florida then give going up into the Carolinas. And it has a different flavor from the surge that we saw last summer. It`s true that we have a lot more older Americans who are vaccinated so the deaths are nothing like what we saw before. But what we`re seeing in its place is lots and lots of young people getting sick and lots of hospitalizations for young people and we`re -- are even starting to see now a pediatric intensive care unit admissions.

[19:05:13]

I don`t think this virus is selectively targeting kids. I just think pretty much anyone is not vaccinated is getting swept up in this. And the big worry is in August here in the south school start early. They started early --

CAPEHART: Right.

HOTEZ: -- than they do up in the north, and it`s going to, I think this is really going to act as an accelerant for this epidemic. And what I`m holding my breath about, given the fact that except for Louisiana, we don`t have masked mandates. We certainly don`t have vaccination mandates for COVID-19 vaccines. We have a very low number of adolescents vaccinated the lowest in the country, fewer than 20% of adolescents are vaccinated in most southern states. This is a powder keg and so I`m worried we`re going to start seeing lots of pediatric hospitalizations and pediatric ICU admissions. And so that really worries me.

CAPEHART: And yet we are seeing there`s a 70% increase in vaccinations. I think this comes from Jeffrey Zients to the White House COVID-19 response coordinator who said that this was a 70% increase in the last week, the average number of people getting vaccinated against COVID-19 after weeks of pleading with people to get vaccinated because the level of vaccination had sort of leveled out. Now we`re seeing this spike in people getting vaccinated.

Dr. Patel, is that because of people taking seriously all the reports of this, this surge because of the Delta variant?

PATEL: Well, yes, I think Jonathan, almost everyone I`ve talked to has kind of come into my clinic recently to get vaccinated. They`ve all said, look, I know someone who was young and healthy and got COVID and is sick. They`ve all been kind of touched personally by it to Dr. Hotez`s point. There`s just very little places for the virus to go except the unvaccinated and it`s going to be very smart and efficient at replicating in the unvaccinated. We`re also seeing some of these breakthrough infections, which are catching people`s attention. It`s not undermining vaccine competence. But even Senator Graham`s experience, it could have been far worse if you were not vaccinated.

And so, I do think we have an opportunity. Unfortunately, getting vaccinated today does not help with the, you know, straight upward slope that we`re seeing of increases in cases. It`ll save your life. But it`s not going to prevent what is this kind of roller coaster of an epidemic and pandemic we`re seeing throughout the state.

CAPEHART: And Dr. Hotez, there`s a report out that Germany from Reuters today Germany will in September just start to offer a booster shot against COVID-19. Do you think that that is something that is going to a decision that will be made here in the United States that we -- the folks who have been vaccinated will need to get a booster shot?

HOTEZ: I think there`s a high likelihood, it may not be a universal recommendation and may start out with certain groups, we`re already seeing some data, although they`re small studies on those on immunosuppressive therapy, bring up their levels of virus neutralizing antibody, if they get a third immunization. Israel is now giving 30 immunizations to those over the age of 60. So I could imagine a scenario where we move forward with that. And later on as other variants circulate, because we`re doing a terrible job of vaccinating Africa, Latin America and Southeast Asia, that could build more resilience also through a third immunization. So I think we`ll eventually get there. It may come in stages.

CAPEHART: You know, I know I mentioned before sort of triumphantly, you know, we`re seeing an incredible spike in the number of people getting vaccinated. But then the dark side of this comes from that story in the New York Times on Sunday, where a survey of data from 10 states shows that about 1 million doses have gone to waste since the nation began administering COVID-19 vaccines in December, much of the loss comes as demand for inoculations plummeted.

Dr. Patel, should we be worried that as people start to take getting vaccinated seriously and go out to get the vaccine that we could end up seeing shortages because of the number of vaccines that had -- that have to be thrown out? Because they do have expiration dates?

PATEL: Yes, Jonathan, nothing kills me more. I`ve had to throw away some of those doses. And it literally breaks my heart every time that happens, because as Dr. Hotez knows this could save a life everywhere here and in any other country. I`m not worried whether or not it`s just the word gluttonous. Or you could argue that we were really, really prepared with Operation Warp Speed to have these contracts and manufacturing arrangements in line. I`m actually not worried about running out a vaccine, but I am worried about is that the American public is probably going to have to deal with COVID for a while. And when I say a while I don`t mean days or weeks or months. It might be several years and it`s because we need to vaccinate the whole world.

[19:10:00]

And I don`t know how we can all adjust our lives to that and we`re going to have to do it but we have to do it by getting vaccinated as quickly as possible. And then I do think we`re going to have whether they`re boosters or a new set of series of vaccines in our future. That`s what we`re going to be dealing with. But it is our only way out of this.

CAPEHART: The message in all of this is get vaccinated. Dr. Kavita Patel, Dr. Peter Hotez, as always, thank you very much.

As New York`s governor urges businesses to turn away unvaccinated customers. Florida`s governor is barring schools from mandating that children wear masks. This comes as the Sunshine State is grappling with a surge in cases in hospitalized COVID patients.

Joining me now is Nikki Fried, Florida`s Commissioner of Agriculture and Consumer Services, who is running against incumbent Ron DeSantis for governor.

Commissioner Fried thank you very much for coming to the "Reidout."

Let me read a tweet that you put out if I can find it here on my sheet. Yes. You put it out today, what are you waiting for? Nikki Fried says governor, Governor DeSantis needs to issue an emergency order for COVID-19. Talk more about that what would this emergency order do?

NIKKI FRIED (D-FL) CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR: The emergency order would allow us to pull down additional funds from the federal government to increase our testing back here in the state of Florida as well as more vaccination locations. Because right now we`re seeing a surge as you your guests were just talking about in the earlier part of your show. And so right now that the problem is, is that our governor has put his head in the sand and has left the state of Florida has abandoned us.

And so we need him to start taking this very seriously. He stopped almost two months ago giving daily reporting numbers to the people of our state of where we are on the number of cases the hospitalization. So this executive order would say Floridians take this seriously, please go out and get the vaccines. Here are the locations for the testing sites. Here`s increased locations for the vaccinations. But unfortunately, this governor is more preoccupied with running for President 2024 and not taking this seriously.

CAPEHART: Well, Commissioner Fried, I mean the thing that I find most outrageous is that the governor is making it impossible, impossible for localities to impose or institute mask mandates in order to protect their own -- their own citizens. Is he basing that just on pure politics or on some on some science that we don`t know about?

FRIED: You know, I think that the question that it should be addressed like this, you know, it shouldn`t be about mandating mask or not mandating mask. You know, last year, we didn`t have the tool in our shed of the vaccinations. We have it now. We need to be having bipartisan support of people across our state across our country coming together, Democrats, Republicans, independents, emphasizing how important it is to get the vaccines and to get it now.

And so, when he does things like this, and flirts with anti-vaxxers and anti maskers, what he`s doing is he`s signaling to the people of our state, don`t take this seriously. Don`t follow the science don`t follow the experts. And that`s the conversation that we need to be having. It`s how we come together re-message, what needs to be going on right now here in the state of Florida, to protect our kids. We know the numbers are increasing when it comes to hospitalization, not just for 18 and above, but other under 18.

And we also know this, that last year, it was our local governments and our local different businesses and corporations and small businesses across the state that stood up in lead when he had a hands off approach. He flipped out during crisises. And so now he`s handcuffed them. To not be able to do what is right for their communities. Communities and counties all across the state and across the country are different. And that`s why they have local elected officials to know what`s right for their own specific community. And he`s handcuff them to not be able to protect their own communities.

CAPEHART: Commission Fried, we have less than a minute left. But what would you say to people in Florida who are hesitant to get the vaccine? What would you say to them to convince them or at least get them a little step closer to getting the vaccine?

FRIED: Well, first of all, I would plead with them. We know that vaccines work, we know that it`s stopping the spread of the virus across the entire world. And so, what I say to them is not just do it for yourself, do for your children, do it for your parents, do it for your grandparents, do it for our economy, do it for the nurses and our first responders that are on the front lines that are putting their lives at risk every single day because you`re not getting vaccinated.

We know that 95% of the hospitalizations are by those that are not vaccinated. Please put yourself into the shoes of those parents that are trying to put their kids back into school. Do right by your neighbors do right by your community. Go get vaccinated.

CAPEHART: Great message to end this conversation on. Nikki Fried, thank you very much for coming to the "Reidout."

Up next, Trump`s right hand man suggests the former president is leading a government in exile with the Shadow Cabinet. It`s all fodder for his conspiratorial followers who think he`s going to be reinstalled, which is not a thing to be clear.

[19:15:08]

Plus, House Minority leader Kevin McCarthy jokes about hitting Speaker Pelosi. It`s just the latest example of the dangerous rhetoric flowing from the right.

And the belated efforts to prevent the eviction of millions of Americans. There`s a lot of talk but what`s really getting done?

The "ReidOut" continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAPEHART: The big lie is alive and well among Trump`s closest advisors who continue to fuel the delusion that he won the 2020 election, which he didn`t. After meeting with the ex-President and others on Friday, Trump`s former chief of staff Mark Meadows spoke of him as if he was still in office, referring to it as a quote, cabinet meeting like some sort of government in exile.

[19:20:01]

But it`s not just providing new fodder to Trump`s conspiratorial base. He`s also teasing Trump`s plan to regain power in 2024

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, FMR TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I wanted to join you to talk about really a president that is fully engaged, highly focused --

STEVE CORTES, NEWSMAX HOST: Sure.

MEADOWS: -- and remaining on task.

CORTES: Chief, do you want to break any news from your meetings with President Trump?

MEADOWS: Well, we met with some of our cabinet members tonight.

We`re looking at what does come next. I`m not authorized to speak on behalf of the President.

CORTES: OK.

MEADOWS: But I but I can tell you this, Steve, we wouldn`t be meeting tonight if we weren`t making plans to move forward in a real way. And with --

CORTES: OK.

MEADOWS: -- President Trump at the head of that ticket.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAPEHART: For real people, given that Trump has yet to be held accountable for inspiring a failed coup to hold on to power, it`s no surprise that he`s now plotting a second act. In fact, the big lie is so insidious within the GOP that it`s helped to make Trump the Republican Party`s most dominant fundraiser in the first half of 2021. As the New York Times reports, he ended June with a war chest of more than $100 million. It`s a reminder that Trump and his party remain a serious threat to our democracy.

Joining me now Democratic strategist Juanita Tolliver and Tim Miller is writer-at-large at the Bulwark, both our MSNBC political analyst.

Juanita, OK, the idea of Mark Meadows talking about Trump as President Trump and our cabinet and I`m not going to talk about my conversations with the President. What?

JUANITA TOLLIVER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Hello Jonathan. I just want to shout out the producer who writes (INAUDIBLE) emphasizing pretend Trump is pretending right now, Meadow is pretending right now. And I appreciate you mentioning that this is just delusional behavior, feeding into that conspiracy theory that Trump has lied to his supporters and said he`s coming back to the White House this month. Right? We know that`s a lie.

But here`s where the delusion is dangerous. Because we know the last time Trump told his supporters to act based on one of his lies, they stormed the U.S. Capitol, they killed police officers, they threaten the lives of Pelosi, pen staffers and every employee in that building. And so, that`s where the delusion is dangerous. But these folks have truly made like an Olympic sport at this point. Because they`re not going to stop. And I don`t, and I want to know that this interview happened on Newsmax. So we know who this was for. This was for the base that as you mentioned, keeps funneling more and more cash into Trump so that not only can Trump go into 2024 campaign with a strong position, but he`s also going to hold this over the GOPs head as to why they can`t live without him and why they absolutely need access to his base.

CAPEHART: And Tim, I would love for you to react to what Juanita just said, but also on Mark Meadows. Come on. He`s a former member of Congress, North Carolina, he -- one, he should know better. And two, the fact that he knows better and still does these things, says these things. What does that say about him?

TIM MILLER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, now much good, Jonathan. I mean, at this point, he`s about one step removed from those, you know, Confederate coast flyers that put on the tri corner hats and like, got into the woods in Virginia with fake rifles and pretend like it`s the Civil War.

Look, I don`t know what happened to Mark Meadows.

TOLLIVER: Oh my god.

MILLER: I mean, look he was never a moderate Republican, but --

CAPEHART: That`s right.

MILLER: -- he`s been seem to be a person who was based in reality, before he went into the White House. And I think that there`s just this intoxicating notion about being close to power as absurd as that might seem to us. I, you know, I`d rather you know, rip off my toenails and have to do dinner with the Trump family. But for some of these people, they love this. They love it.

CAPEHART: Yes.

MILLER: And so, so they go along with all this nonsense in order to do it. It has real just, I mean, this is ridiculous what Meadows is doing, but it does have real political impact. If you look at the Virginia governor`s race just today in the Bulwark, we just put this up Glenn Youngkin, who`s the Republican who in another era might be like a Mitt Romney style Republican gets asked about this stuff. And you know, about Trump getting reinstated in August and he says, well, you know, that`s going through the courts and the courts got to deal with it. So, it`s not just Meadows playing pretend that --

TOLLIVER: My god.

MILLER: -- Bedminster (ph). It`s people who are running for serious office that have to do it as well.

CAPEHART: And, you know Juanita, this is all playing. This is all playing out. While the Republican Party and members of the Republican Party are trying to make us believe this counter narrative about January 6, about trying to turn Ashli Babbitt not turned her from being the person who was shot because she was trying to gain entry into the speaker`s lobby while members of Congress were being evacuated, but turning her into some kind of patriot, she`s not patriot.

[19:25:02]

TOLLIVER: Trying to make her a martyr. I think this also goes into the argument that they tried to roll out the day of the first select committee hearing that this is all Pelosi`s fault. Somehow, some way it`s all Pelosi`s fault, right? And we know that this week disjointed narrative that they`re putting out is only again, for a party of one, Donald Trump, right. They are still trying to make sure that they stay on their good side, even if what they`re saying makes zero sense. Even if it lacks logic, even if it lacks judgment, they are still trying to cater to Trump. And that`s something that I think we`re going to hear more of right, they`re going to continue to beat that drum of lies throughout the rest of the hearings is that the select committee undertake even when they`re printed -- even when their own names are going to potentially be called to be subpoenaed to testify in front of that Select Committee.

CAPEHART: And so, that was a story in the New York Times in the Washington Post. Tim, they have another sort of outrageous thing. This is from Senator Ron Johnson, who suggests that the FBI knew more than it said basically using the attempt to kidnap -- the kidnapping plot against Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, as some sort of way of saying, well, the average -- the FBI should have known about that, therefore, they should have known about January 6.

What I`m not even going to ask what happened to Ron Johnson that never mind. Why is he still playing court jester on all of this stuff?

MILLER: You know, look, Ron Johnson just another one of these cases of all, you know, always crazy or, you know, did something happen on the last few years? Look at that isn`t even the most insane thing he`s put out over the last 24 hours. You know, just today he tweeted also that he wants people to follow Alex Berenson`s Substack. This is one of the, you know, most prolific misinformation disinformation provocateurs when it comes to COVID.

On the FBI, Johnson`s been like this from the start, you know, he says that he doesn`t understand -- that he doesn`t believe I think what it comes down to is he doesn`t believe and it`s hard that his people that Trump`s people could do something like this. And that`s just it. He said that directly. He believes that Trump`s people love America and Bernie Sanders, people don`t love America. He believes that at its core, and now he`s just trying to backfill that belief with any conspiracy, any facts that might support it. And I -- you know, without putting them on the couch, you know, I think that`s my best explanation for what`s happening and then, you know, it`s crazier and crazier down the rabbit hole (INAUDIBLE).

CAPEHART: Yes, Tim, there`s no catch big enough to explain him. But in the time that we have left, let`s talk about what CongressmanAdam Kinzinger said yesterday, where he said that he expects, quote, a significant number of subpoenas from the House Select Committee, including possibly House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, and (INAUDIBLE) Jim Jordan. How likely is that do you think, Juanita?

TOLLIVER: Look, I think it is likely subpoenas are going to be issued and I think is also going to continue to grow the rage within the GOP that Kinzinger and Cheney are serving on a select committee. And that Kinzinger is out here saying with this whole chess award coming for you, if you had anything to do this, we`re coming for you to get the answers that we know Americans want. We`re coming for you to get to the truth.

And so, I think it`s likely the subpoenas will be issued, Jonathan. What I`m not sure is likely is that these folks will actually appear before the select committee to testify, because we know they`re going to fight tooth and nail to avoid going up there and having to either plead the fifth or just obfuscate the entire time.

And so, what we know is likely going to happen is the subpoenas are definitely going to be issued. And Kinzinger is asking the question, what are you afraid of? Either you said that this was a normal day at the office and tours --

CAPEHART: Right.

TOLLIVER: -- for visiting the Capitol, or you had something to do with this. So you have some culpability that we`ll be finding out.

CAPEHART: You know, every time I hear plead the fif, I think of that Dave Chappelle skit. Just --

TOLLIVER: Yes.

CAPEHART: -- Google Dave Chappelle fif, F-I-F.

Juanita Tolliver, Tim Miller, thank you very much for coming to the "Reidout."

Still ahead, Republican House leader Kevin McCarthy jokes about hitting speaker Nancy Pelosi with the gavel, just a joke, right? Not funny.

Maybe it was coming a few short months after bloodthirsty insurrectionists stormed the Capitol funny then are still not funny. Ain`t it funny? We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:00]

But he`s not just providing new fodder to Trump`s conspiratorial base. He`s also teasing Trump`s plan to regain power in 2024.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MEADOWS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I wanted to join you to talk about really a president that is fully engaged, highly focused, and remaining on task.

QUESTION: Sure.

Chief, do you want to break any news from your meetings with President Trump?

(LAUGHTER)

MEADOWS: Well, we met with some of our Cabinet members tonight. We`re looking at what does come next. I`m not authorized to speak on behalf of the president.

QUESTION: OK.

MEADOWS: But I can tell you this, Steve. We wouldn`t be meeting tonight if we weren`t making plans to move forward in a real way, and with President Trump at the head of that ticket.

QUESTION: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

CAPEHART: For real, people?

Given that Trump has yet to be held accountable for inspiring a failed coup to hold onto power, it`s no surprise that he`s now plotting a second act. In fact, the big lie is so insidious within the GOP that it`s helped to make Trump the Republican Party`s most dominant fund-raiser in the first half of 2021.

As "The New York Times" reports, he ended June with a war chest of more than $100 million. It`s a reminder that Trump and his party remain a serious threat to our democracy.

Joining me now, Democratic strategist Juanita Tolliver, and Tim Miller is writer at large at The Bulwark. Both are MSNBC political analysts.

Juanita, OK, the idea of Mark Meadows talking about Trump as President Trump and our Cabinet and I`m not going to talk about my conversations with the president, what?

JUANITA TOLLIVER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, Jonathan, I just want to shout out the producer who writes your Chyron, emphasizing pretend.

CAPEHART: Pretend.

(LAUGHTER)

TOLLIVER: Trump is pretending right now. Meadows is pretending right now.

And I appreciate you mentioning that this is just delusional behavior, feeding into that conspiracy theory that Trump has lied to his supporters and said he`s coming back to the White House this month, right? We know that`s a lie.

But here`s where the delusion is dangerous, because we know the last time Trump told his supporters to act based on one of his lies, they stormed the U.S. Capitol, they killed police officers, they threatened the lives of Pelosi, Pence, staffers and every employee in that building.

And so that`s where the delusion is dangerous. But these folks have truly made lying an Olympic sport at this point.

(LAUGHTER)

TOLLIVER: Because they`re not going to stop.

CAPEHART: Right.

TOLLIVER: And I don`t -- and I want to note that this interview happened on Newsmax.

So we know who this was for. This was for the base that, as you mentioned, keeps funneling more and more cash into Trump, so that not only can Trump go into the 2024 campaign with a strong position, but he`s also going to hold this over the GOP`s head as to why they can`t live without him and why they absolutely need access to his base.

CAPEHART: And, Tim, I would love for you to react to Juanita just said.

But also, on Mark Meadows, come on. He`s a former member of Congress, North Carolina. He -- one, he should know better. And, two, the fact that he knows better and still does these things, says these things, what does that say about him?

TIM MILLER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, not much good, Jonathan.

I mean, at this point, he`s about one step removed from those Confederate cosplayers that put on the tricorner hats and like go out into the woods in Virginia with the fake rifles and pretend like it`s the Civil War.

TOLLIVER: Oh, my gosh.

MILLER: Look, I don`t know what happened to Mark Meadows.

I mean, look, he was never a moderate Republican.

CAPEHART: That`s right.

MILLER: But he seem to be a person who was based in reality, before he went into the White House.

And I think that there`s just this intoxicating notion about being close to power, as absurd as that might seem to us. I`d rather rip off my toenails than have to do dinner with the Trump family.

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: But, for some of these people, they love this. They love it.

CAPEHART: Yes.

MILLER: And so they go along with all this nonsense in order to do it.

And it has real just -- I mean, this is ridiculous, what Meadows is doing, but it does have real political impact. If you look at the Virginia governor`s race just today in The Bulwark, if we can just put this up, Glenn Youngkin, who`s the Republican...

CAPEHART: Right.

MILLER: ... who, in another era, might be like a Mitt Romney-style Republican, gets asked about this stuff and about Trump getting reinstated in August. And he says, well that`s going through the courts, and the courts have got to deal with it.

(CROSSTALK)

MILLER: So, it`s not just Meadows playing pretend at Bedminster.

It`s people who are running for serious office that have to do it as well.

CAPEHART: And, Juanita, this is all playing -- this is all playing out while the Republican Party and members of the Republican Party are trying to make us believe this counternarrative about January 6, about trying to turn Ashli Babbitt, not turn her from being the person who was shot because she was trying to gain entry into the speaker`s lobby while members of Congress were being evacuated, but turning her into some kind of patriot?

She`s no patriot.

[19:25:02]

TOLLIVER: Trying to make her a martyr.

I think this also goes into the argument that they tried to roll out the day of the first select committee hearing, that this is all Pelosi`s fault. Somehow, some way, it`s all Pelosi fault, right? And we know that this weak, disjointed narrative that they`re putting out is only, again, for a party of one, Donald Trump, right?

They are still trying to make sure that they stay on their good side, even if what they`re saying makes zero sense, even if it lacks logic, even if it lacks judgment. They are still trying to cater to Trump. And that`s something that I think we`re going to hear more of, right?

They`re going to continue to beat that drum of lies throughout the rest of the hearings that the select committee undertakes, even when their -- even when their own names are going to potentially be called to be subpoenaed to testify in front of that select committee.

CAPEHART: So, that was a story in "The New York Times."

In "The Washington Post," Tim, they have another sort of outrageous thing. This is from Senator Ron Johnson, who suggests that the FBI knew more than it said, basically using the attempt to kidnap -- the kidnapping plot against Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer as some sort of way of saying, well, the FBI should have known about that. Therefore, they should have known about January 6?

What -- I`m not even going to ask what happened to Ron Johnson. Never mind.

(LAUGHTER)

TOLLIVER: Just why is he still playing court jester on all of this stuff?

MILLER: Yes, look, Ron Johnson is just another one of these cases of always crazy, or did something happen over the last few years?

Look, that isn`t even the most insane thing he`s put out over the last 24 hours.

CAPEHART: Yes.

MILLER: Just today, he tweeted also that he wants people to follow Alex Berenson`s Substack. This is one of the most prolific misinformation -- disinformation provocateurs when it comes to COVID.

On the FBI, Johnson`s been like this from the start. He says that he doesn`t understand, he doesn`t believe -- I think what it comes down to is he doesn`t believe, at its heart, that his people, that Trump`s people could do something like this. And that`s just it.

He said that directly. He believes that Trump`s people love America and Bernie Sanders` people don`t love America. He believes that at its core. And now he`s just trying to backfill that belief with any conspiracy, any facts that might support it.

And without putting him on the couch, I think that`s my best explanation for what`s happening.

(LAUGHTER)

CAPEHART: Yes, there`s no...

MILLER: And he`s going crazier and crazier down the rabbit hole to do it.

CAPEHART: Yes, Tim, there`s no couch big enough to explain him.

(LAUGHTER)

CAPEHART: But in the time that we have left, let`s talk about what Congressman Adam Kinzinger said yesterday, where he said that he expects -- quote -- "a significant number of subpoenas" from the House select committee, including possibly House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and homina, homina, homina Jim Jordan.

How likely is that, do you think, Juanita?

TOLLIVER: Look, I think it is likely subpoenas are going to be issued.

And I think it`s also going to continue to grow the rage within the GOP that Kinzinger and Cheney are serving on the select committee, and that Kinzinger is out here saying with his whole chest, we`re coming for you if you had anything to do this. We`re coming for you to get the answers that we know Americans want. We`re coming for you to get to the truth.

And so I think it`s likely the subpoenas will be issued, Jonathan. What I`m not sure is likely is that these folks will actually appear before the select committee to testify, because we know they`re going to fight tooth and nail to avoid going up there and having to either plead the Fifth or just obfuscate the entire time.

And so what we know is likely going to happen is, these subpoenas are definitely going to be issued, and Kinzinger is asking the question, what are you afraid of? Either you said that this was a normal day at the office and tourists were visiting the Capitol...

CAPEHART: Right. Right.

TOLLIVER: ... or you had something to do with this and you have some culpability that we will be finding out.

CAPEHART: Every time I hear plead the Fifth, I think of that Dave Chappelle skit.

TOLLIVER: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

CAPEHART: Just Google "Dave Chappelle FiF," F-I-F.

Juanita Tolliver, Tim Miller, thank you very much for coming to THE REIDOUT.

Still ahead: Republican House Leader Kevin McCarthy jokes about hitting Speaker Nancy Pelosi with the gavel. Just a joke, right? Not funny. Maybe it was coming a few short months after bloodthirsty insurrectionists stormed the Capitol. Funny then, or still not funny?

It ain`t funny.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:33:39]

CAPEHART: House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is so desperate to become speaker of the House that he will stoop to any low to fire up Trump`s base.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I want you to watch Nancy Pelosi hand me that gavel.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

MCCARTHY: It will be hard not to hit her with it.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAPEHART: A spokesman for McCarthy said he was -- quote -- "obviously joking."

Because it`s funny to incite violence against someone who`s already a right-wing target. As NBC-4 reporter Scott MacFarlane points out, there are dozens of U.S. Capitol insurrection cases so far in which defendants mention or appear to threaten Nancy Pelosi.

The threats, many using misogynistic language, include a call to -- quote - - "hang Pelosi," a warning that the crowd is -- quote -- "coming for her" and a declaration that she is -- quote -- "a traitor."

I`m joined now by Ohio Democratic Congressman and Senate candidate Tim Ryan of Ohio.

Congressman Ryan, thank you very much for coming to THE REIDOUT.

So, was Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy joking?

REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): Well, he`s not a very funny guy. I think that`s pretty obvious.

Any time you`re trying to talk about hitting the speaker of the House with a gavel, you`re in the wrong.

[19:35:05]

But he`s just -- he`s not a funny guy. I think he tried to make a joke. He`s not very funny. And they`re searching for issues to try to incite their base, Dr. Seuss, you know, what he`s saying here at that dinner.

They got to get the focus back on the real issues of what the vast majority of Americans are focused on. That`s, how do we get wages up? How do we have some economic security for those people who are doing everything right? How do we have retirement security? How do we start really dealing with this economic threat coming out of China and making sure we dominate these industries of the future?

Jonathan, they don`t want to talk about any of that stuff. They want to talk about all this other nonsense. And I think that`s what you -- that`s what you saw the other day.

CAPEHART: Right, because, Congressman Ryan, I`m just wondering, what does it say about the tenor and tone of the -- of your workplace when you have got the leader of the other party joking -- he`s not joking -- talking about hitting the speaker with a gavel?

I mean, is -- since January 6, I have heard many of your colleagues talk about just sort of the fear they have about their Republican colleagues. Does what Leader McCarthy say fit in to that atmosphere of menace that appears to be there in the Capitol?

RYAN: Oh, there`s no doubt.

I mean, you look at the January 6 testimony from last week, you see that they`re completely ignoring the insurrection to the Capitol. They`re completely ignoring what happened to members of Congress, what happened to the Capitol Police, what happened to the Washington Metro. They`re looking the other way on all of these issues.

And they`re so disconnected from reality that jokes like that happen that aren`t funny and play into these greater threats that we`re seeing from -- against not just Nancy Pelosi, but many other members of the Democratic Caucus.

And he does. He just feeds into it. But what you`re seeing here is a Republican Party that is rudderless. They are searching for issues. They`re searching for topics to start culture wars on Dr. Seuss or any -- masks or whatever they could get their hands on.

So what you`re seeing is a level of desperation, because they`re not talking about what`s in the best interests of workers or the American people.

CAPEHART: So, then, Congressman Ryan, then, they might be searching for issues to keep them from talking about real issues.

But then -- but you have got members of Congress going out of their way to pal around with far right extremists. We have got Congressman Paul Gosar, who has been associated with the white nationalist Nick Fuentes, which is, according to "The New York Times," the most vivid example of the Republican Party`s growing acceptance of extremism.

How should we -- how worried should we be as Americans that the Republican Party, it`s not the Republican Party anymore; it`s an extremist party that`s perfectly comfortable embracing domestic terrorists?

RYAN: I mean, it`s something we all should be worried about.

I think this is a great threat to our democracy, when you have an insurrection, people scaling walls, hitting cops with lead pipes across the side of the head, and the -- almost the entire Republican Party has looked the other way for that.

And I just saw where Congressman Gaetz and others were calling down to make sure that the insurrectionists were properly treated at the jail they were in.

I mean, are you kidding me?

(LAUGHTER)

RYAN: This is the issue that`s most important to you, with all of the income inequality, with all of the economic insecurity, high levels of addiction, deaths of despair, people losing their shirts?

People still aren`t getting vaccinated, so we can get the economy back up and running. And you`re taking time out of your day to call and make sure that the insurrectionists are getting treated properly. I mean, give me a break. That just shows you how disconnected they are, Jonathan.

CAPEHART: Yes.

And to your point about them visiting insurrectionists, we have gotten a report, a very sad report today, here from CNBC, third police officer, Gunther Hashida, dies from suicide after defending Capitol during riot by pro-Trump mob. Just fix that headline, by domestic terrorists.

I will give you the last word on this.

RYAN: Heartbreaking.

I mean, I just -- I chair the committee that funds the Capitol Police. And we went out of our way to make sure we`re trying to take care of those people who have taken care of us.

[19:40:01]

We sent, you know, billions of dollars to local communities to make sure that they`re funded so that, you know, those people that provide the security in our communities have what they need. And these guys are looking the other way.

This speaks to the mental health issues around the country too, I think. The addiction issues around the country.

And look, this person put their lives on the line for us, to protect the democracy, not just members of Congress. And the Republican Party is completely looking the other way. I hope we can get past this. I hope they can get back into reality. And then we can start talking about how we take care of these police officers and then how we start working again to get the economy going for all of these people in the country. That`s what this country wants us to do.

JONATHAN CAPEHART, MSNBC HOST: Yeah, and our thoughts and prayers go out to Officer Hashida`s family.

Congressman Tim Ryan, thank you very much for coming to THE REIDOUT.

Still ahead, as the Senate races to pass its $1 trillion bipartisan infrastructure deal, the clock may be running out on millions of Americans facing eviction.

Plus, the latest from Tokyo with Simone Biles just hours away from her highly anticipated return to Olympic competition.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:45:29]

CAPEHART: It`s a busy week of unfinished business here in Washington. The federal ban on evictions expired Saturday. Today, President Biden called on state and local governments to put in place moratoriums for at least another two months.

This comes as House Democratic leaders called on the president to extend the moratorium and as anger is still palpable among progressive Democrats like Missouri Congresswoman Cori Bush who slept outside on the Capitol steps in protest each of the past three nights. She tweeted that she met with Vice President Harris this afternoon about the need for a federal eviction moratorium.

Now, the House is on a seven-week August recess, but members are on notice to return after passage of a long-awaited infrastructure bill in the senate. That package includes $550 billion in new spending for roads, bridges and rail among other things.

Now the race is on to pass it before senators leave town. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, he urged senators to get moving, while the self-proclaimed grim reaper of legislation, Mitch McConnell, says he`s in no rush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: Let`s start voting on amendments. The longer it takes to finish the bill, the longer we`ll be here.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Our full consideration of this bill must not be choked off by any artificial timetable that our Democratic colleagues may have penciled out for political purposes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAPEHART: Joining me now Senator Alex Padilla of California.

Senator Padilla, great to see you again. Welcome to THE REIDOUT.

My question is simple, which is going to be easier for you and your colleagues to pass, this bipartisan infrastructure bill or the reconciliation bill that will require all of the Democrats to vote in favor of it, plus the vote of the vice president to pass it?

SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): Well, good to see you again, Jonathan.

And here`s the bottom line: it`s not an either/or. (INAUDIBLE) part of this bipartisan deal, as you mentioned, plenty of money in there not just for roads, and bridges and tunnels but for the electric grid. I know in California, every time it`s wildfire season, we wonder if we can keep the lights on because of the status of the electrical grid.

There`s money in there for broadband employment, to upgrade areas with slow speeds and expand Internet service in areas that are currently underserved.

But we know as big and historic as this bipartisan package is, it`s not enough. If you need money for housing, for child care, for health care, my God, and so much more, we will follow it up with a reconciliation package even if it has to be on a partisan basis.

CAPEHART: Let`s talk about -- you mentioned housing, so let`s talk about eviction.

You have Congresswoman Cori Bush sleeping on the steps of the Capitol. Congress -- the House left town without doing anything about extending the moratorium on evictions.

Is there anything Congress can do in time to protect American families?

PADILLA: Yeah, look, I think applying pressure in all the right places, right? We acted earlier this year to provide state and local governments enough funding to cover these eviction moratoriums. In California, it`s been extended until September. We certainly hope we`re in a better place when it comes to the pandemic, when it comes to the economy by then but at least Californians have that comfort level. I think people across the country should enjoy the same protections.

And if it means the CDC has to act -- look, the public health professionals at the CDC, you know, I listen to every doctor when they take their oath becoming a medical professional, the first rule is do no harm.

CAPEHART: Uh-huh.

PADILLA: So that means during a pandemic, do not kick people out of their homes and do not put them on the streets.

CAPEHART: Last issue for you, cramming in a lot of news with you, Senator Padilla, and you seem to be the hub of all of these things.

Voting rights. You are a part of this crew of senators who are working on a pared down version of a voting rights bill that you hope can get passed out of the Senate. Can you give us any more details on what`s in it and when you`re going to drop it?

PADILLA: Yeah, look, ideally, we unveiled some new language this week. We`re still fine tuning the newest proposal, as we`re trying to finalize this infrastructure package. The For the People Act, which I`m absolutely supportive of, was tough to get through just to open up debate and discussion.

[19:50:01]

So if we were able to focus on just some more important pieces of voting rights, access to the ballots, and we already start with the united Democratic caucus, then I think we`re one step closer to either getting the votes necessary on the floor or maybe finally rattling filibuster rule to get this done for the sake of our democracy. The 2022 election is right around the corner.

CAPEHART: Uh-huh. Senator Alex Padilla of California, thank you as always for coming to THE REIDOUT.

Just days before the 56th anniversary of the Voting Rights Act being signed into law, protestors gathered in front of the Hart Senate Office Building earlier today, calling for protection of voting rights and the abolition of the filibuster.

Now, while the protest was peaceful, more than 200 were arrested, including my next guest, Bishop William Barber, co-chair of the poor people`s campaign, which organized today`s protest.

Bishop Barber, great to see you.

I talked to you on Saturday, when you were in Austin, Texas. Today, you are here, in Washington, still, fighting for voting rights.

Do you think Washington has the -- has the same level of urgency, as you do, when it comes to protecting voting rights?

REP. WILLIAM BARBER, CO-CHAIR, THE POOR PEOPLE`S CAMPAIGN: Well, not yet, they don`t, Jonathan. But the pressure is showing that they are moving. They weren`t moving at all. We marched on Manchin. He came out with the compromise.

We`re moving, now. We had poor and low-wage workers from 47 states, plus religious leaders. That`s who was marching today. The essential workers and religious leaders, moral leaders, because this is a moral issue, a constitutional issue, not just -- and it wasn`t just about the Voting Rights Act. It was about end the filibuster. Pass the provisions of the For the Peoples Act.

We don`t need a narrowed down the provisions for the Chamber of Commerce. We need to pass the Voting Rights Act Restoration. When it`s ready, we need to pass $15 living wage for the 32 million people who live every day, essential workers who saved this economy, of -- of restaurant workers who make $2.13 an hour. That`s -- that`s ridiculous. We need to protect our immigrants, and we need to ensure that people are not evicted. We`ve got -- trying to evict the vote and evict people.

So we have got to change this dynamic. They don`t do it by the 6th, we are going to intensify even more but we are not going anywhere, Jonathan.

CAPEHART: So, Bishop Barber, we just had Senator Alex Padilla of California on. He is part of the working group that is going to unveil a -- a new voting rights legislation. It, most likely, won`t have all the things that were in the voting -- the For the People Act.

All of the things that you want.

Are you saying that, if that bill doesn`t have all of the things that you want, you won`t support it?

BARBER: Well, let`s talk about all the things that John Lewis wanted. Let -- let`s see, what are you going to cut out of it? Are you going to cut out ballot access? That`s in there. Are you going to cut out of getting rid of dark money? That`s in there. Are you going to cut out dealing with gerrymandering? That`s in there. Are you going to cut out ethics?

You see, what happening is Manchin is being allowed to negotiate the bill down. What senators should be saying is, Manchin, there are things you want in this infrastructure bill, 79 percent of the people in West Virginia, particularly, agree with the for the peoples act as John Lewis wrote it so we are not going to move on infrastructure, until that.

The president should go to Arizona. Should go to Texas. Should go to -- to West Virginia. The president needs to meet with, as he promised, with a group of religious leaders that are very diverse, poor, low-wealth workers, economists, and voting rights lawyers, all in the same room.

His staff has been blocking this. They have been saying, well, we got to wait till infrastructure. But the president said to us, he wanted to work with us. Let`s put pressure on first but don`t negotiate away what`s promised in the 15th Amendment of the Constitution.

Why is it that poor and low-wealth people and people needing their voting rights and living wages have to have things negotiated away? But when a corporation comes, they get everything. They -- they ask for trillions and they get trillions.

So, we got to change the moral mindset, Jonathan, of our -- of our whole way of working. We ask the people who give the most to compromise the most. And the folk who give the least get the most. That`s ridiculous.

So we`re going -- we haven`t seen the language. Let`s look at it. But I can tell you, what four parts are you going to take out? Access to the ballot? Ethics. Dealing with gerrymandering. And addressing this issue of dark money, which treats corporations like people and people like things.

I don`t know which part of it you can take it and it be what John Lewis really wanted. He wrote it. That`s what people should be trying to keep in, what he wrote.

CAPEHART: And with that, we`re going to leave it right there.

Bishop William Barber, thank you very much, as always, for coming to THE REIDOUT.

Up next, Olympian Simone Biles will be back on the balance beam after missing most of her Olympic events. That`s next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAPEHART: The second week of the Summer Olympics is underway in Tokyo. U.S. superstar gymnast Simone Biles will make her return to competition, tomorrow, in the balance beam final after withdrawing from her other events to focus on her mental health.

And today, New Zealand weight lifter, Laurel Hubbard, made history as the first out transgender woman to compete in the games. Meanwhile, the weekend brought some of the first demonstrations of the games. Members of the U.S. men`s fencing team wore pink masks in support of sexual-assault victims, protesting a teammate accused of sexual misconduct.

And on Sunday, Raven Saunders raised her hands in an X formation above her head as she took the silver in the women`s shot put. She later explained the gesture represented unity with oppressed people.

U.S. Olympic Committee issued a statement of support for Saunders saying her gesture was respectful and did not violate its rules on demonstrations.

And that`s THE REIDOUT tonight.

Stay with MSNBC tonight. Retired Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, who testified in the first impeachment trial against former President Donald Trump about his phone call with the president of Ukraine, joins "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" live at 9:00 p.m. Eastern tonight on MSNBC.

But first, "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.