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Transcript: The ReidOut, 7/9/21

Guests: Juvenile, Madeleine Dean, Robert Jones, Josh Shapiro, Timothy Snyder, Tim Miller

Summary

DOJ releases harrowing new January 6 bodycam video; 1/6 committee to hold first hearing this month; 1/6 committee chair says hearing will go forward regardless whether McCarthy appoints Republicans to committee; Representative McCarthy claims 1/6 committee isn`t bipartisan after he rejected bipartisan commission; Court docs cite Trump`s ongoing false claims as evidence of ongoing incitement after January 6; Insurrectionists said prayer during siege; Poll shows 22 percent of white evangelicals are QAnon believers.

Transcript

JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC HOST: Have a great weekend. THE REIDOUT with Joy Reid is up next. Joy, we`ve brought you Juvenile so that you can get the hand off.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: I know. I know. I see. I appreciate you all giving me a few minutes with Juvenile. I`m a fan. I want to big up Mannie Fresh as well. I want to big up Mia X. I do want to know who Scott is, because everybody want to smash with him to get a shot. I don`t know who Scott is, but he`s a very popular man, whoever Scott is.

JUVENILE, RAPPER: Yes.

REID: He`s important to the culture.

JUVENILE: I don`t know who Scott is either. You`ve got ask me (INAUDIBLE).

REID: Can you ask him for me, Juvenile? Can you do -- I just want to know who he -- I just want to see a picture of him.

JOHNSON: If you want to smash Scott, get your vax up.

REID: He`s the motivation and inspiration. Get vax that thing up. Thank you for doing what you do.

JUVENILE: Vax that thing, do your back (INAUDIBLE). I appreciate the love. Thank you.

REID: I appreciate you. All right, you all, thank you very much. Cheers. All right, you guys, have a great with you.

Look at that, I was on with Juvenile. See, that don`t happen every day.

All right, good evening, everyone. Happy Friday. We have a lot, a lot, a lot to get to in the next hour. You are going to want to get a full cup of coffee or maybe a cocktail, if that`s your preference, on this Friday.

CPAC, CPAC kicked off today with intellectual heavyweights Madison Cawthorn and Donald Trump Jr., and it pretty much went downhill from there. And Rhodesia cosplayer Stephen Miller delivered a truly astonishing and shameless rewrite of history that you have got to hear to believe, and then you still won`t believe it.

Plus, how low will they go? And anti-history activist objects to schools teaching the memoir of Ruby Bridges, seriously, this brave six-year-old girl who faced mobs of white protesters to integrate her school in 1950s.

But I promise you before the end of this hour, you have a smile on your face because we have a moment of joy for you that is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.

But, unfortunately, we have to begin THE REIDOUT tonight with something much darker. And I should warn you, it`s really disturbing to watch.

This is newly released video evidence from the Capitol insurrection showing a police officer being dragged into the raging MAGA mob as they engage in literal hand-to-hand combat. It`s among several new videos released from government today at request of NBC News and other outlets. They include videos like this one in which you can hear a member of the mob tell police, quote, you`re going to die tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to die tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Needless to say, this is a fresh reminder of why the select committee on January 6th has got to get to bottom of what motivated that unprecedented attack on American democracy. And now, the chairman of the committee says that the probe is officially getting under way.

Congressman Bennie Thompson told MSNBC today that the first hearing will be held this month, July 21st or 22nd.

But after having appointed eight members to that committee more than a week ago, including Republican Liz Cheney, Speaker Nancy Pelosi is still waiting on House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy to propose five more Republicans to fill the remaining slots.

And the clock is ticking. As Chairman Thompson said today, his committee is moving forward with or without McCarthy`s input.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that hearing happening whether there are McCarthy`s selected Republicans on that panel or not?

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Absolutely. With hope that Kevin McCarthy gives us his five recommendations so we can fully populate the committee. But if he chooses not to, we will still do our work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: For his part, however, Kevin is now whining that the select committee is unfair. Here`s Crybaby Kevin last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): This is the least bipartisan committee you can find. Think about the structure. It`s not an equal number of Republicans or Democrats. She appointed Adam Schiff and Raskin. This is impeachment committee, only the Democrats have subpoena power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Okay, did you catch that? McCarthy is throwing a little temper tantrum over a problem that`s entirely of his own creation. The only reason the select committee was even necessary is because he and his party rejected a bipartisan commission to carry out this exact same investigation. If McCarthy really wanted an even split of Republicans and Democrats, he would have supported the commission that would have given each party equal representation.

And if really he wanted subpoena power, he would have supported the commission that shared that power among members of both parties. In fact, McCarthy negotiated the terms of that commission through his handpicked emissary, John Katko of New York. And even then, he still whipped the Republican House vote against it, so here we are. In other words, in this late stage of the game, McCarthy needs to either put up or shut up.

[19:05:00]

Joining me now is Congresswoman Madeleine Dean of Pennsylvania. She was an impeachment manager earlier this year.

And, Congresswoman, it is amazing to me, the chutzpah of Kevin McCarthy, complaining that he didn`t get the commission he negotiated and rejected. Your thoughts?

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): I agree with you completely. But what we have to remember is that Mr. McCarthy, like his counterpart in the Senate, Mr. McConnell, has lost all credibility. They have both spoken out of both sides of their mouths, but more important than their fake words, and they`re whining and complaining like school children is their actions.

You set it up exactly right. This was six months ago. Look at that video. It`s disturbing to me every time I see any portion of it. The disrespect for our police, for our Capitol Police, you would have thought that these Republicans leaders would have said we have to urgently get to bottom of this, we have to fully understand the facts and circumstances that led to insurrection where people died, where Capitol Police saved their very life, my very life, journalist and staff lives.

So, Mr. McCarthy just simply has no credibility. I have every confidence that Chairman Bennie Thompson, and this terrific, already partly populated select committee will do the work that needs to be done. Too bad it wasn`t the independent commission. We still have the opportunity to do that if these leaders would stand up and actually lead.

But in the meantime, our select committee will move forward with really talented investigators, Frankly, and legislators who want to make sure this never happens again.

REID: And I can sort of see -- Republicans a very good at showmanship. They`re not very good at governing and like their jobs, but they`re good at showmanship. And if he decides to have like six empty seats on one side of the commission, I mean, reality is the commission will still be bipartisan because Liz Cheney is there, she`s a Republican. If he chooses to fill the seats, there only be one more Democrat than Republicans, because Speaker Pelosi actually gave up one seat that could have been a Democrat to give it to Liz Cheney.

I wonder if you think that the argument of partisan or bipartisanship is moot because of that?

DEAN: I think it is, and because again of their actions. This is Mr. McCarthy who deputized Representative Katko to set up and negotiate with Bennie Thompson the independent commission. And you couldn`t have had a more independent commission. It was going to be equally populated by both parties, equal subpoena power, everything was set in place. And then Mr. McCarthy pulled the rug out from that negotiation and that agreement.

I also want to talk about the timing. Here we are when there is an urgent need to fund the Capitol Police. As Senator Leahy has warned, by August, they will not be able to pay salaries. We had a short brief commission by General Honore who gave important recommendations. And we, in the House, passed a $1.9 trillion supplemental to support the Capitol Police who saved our lives. And what has the Senate done? A settlement.

As I was literally preparing for this conversation with you, I see that Representative -- excuse me, Senator Shelby, just in the last hour, has said, as the fencing is coming down, yes, we better come up with supplemental support for Capitol Police and the National Guard. Did it have to take fences coming down to say maybe we need to fund our Capitol Police who saved our lives?

REID: It sounds as if they are defunding the police. They`re refusing -- there you can see the fences coming down. Do you feel safe in the Capitol in this moment given the fact that you still have insurrectionists on trial in which the judges are saying they can`t be released because they still could be subject to Donald Trump`s influence, that he`s still a danger because he`s still out there talking?

With those fences coming down and Capitol Police not fully funded and having manpower shortages, is the Capitol safe right now?

DEAN: I think it is less safe. And I have tell you, I take this personally, because these Capitol Police saved my life. They protected me when I was impeachment manager with such loyalty and devotion and selflessness.

You`re absolutely right, that false notion that Democrats somehow want to defund the police. You have nothing more to look to than House and Senate Republicans. It was we who got the money for state and local police in the American rescue plan. Not a single Republican supported the police or municipalities or local governments. They are the defunders of police. They are the ones who voted not to offer -- 21 Republicans voted not to offer gold medal recognition to the Capitol Police for January 6. They are the party of defund the police. They are the party of actually disrespect the police.

[19:10:00]

So, Mr. McCarthy and McConnell, it`s time they step up or they step aside.

REID: And the people on their side were literally beating and dragging and harming and injuring police. Congresswoman Madeleine Dean, thank you very much for being with us this evening.

And joining me now is Robert P. Jones, CEO and Founder of the Public Relation Research Institute, and the author of White Too Long, the Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity, which is available on Paperback, July 13th, with a new afterward on the January insurrection. And Robby, it`s always great to talk to you. Thank you so much for being here this evening.

I want to show you a clip of something that happened once the insurrectionists broke inside the Senate chamber on January 6th. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus Christ, we invoke your name. Amen.

CROWD: Amen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patriots that love Christ, thank you for allowing the United States of America to be reborn. Thank you for allowing us to get rid of the communists, traitors of the federal government. We love you and we thank you, in Christ`s holy name we pray.

CROWD: Amen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Robby, you`re my numbers guy. Explain to us given the data that you`ve put together and book you`ve written, does it make sense to you to see those people inside committing insurrection and praying?

ROBERT P. JONES, CEO AND FOUNDER, PRRI: Well, you know, I think what we`re seeing right in front of us, if we`re willing to take it in, is a demonstration of this historical entanglement in many ways of white supremacy and extremism with American Christianity. And if we look at the - - when you pull out and then if you look at the broader sweep of those pictures from that day.

What we saw, of course, was Trump signs, white supremacist signs, a confederate flag, Camp Auschwitz hoodies and those kind of anti-Semitic symbols. But what gotten not enough attention, I think, is that the giant crosses that we saw and other kinds of Christians, some of those Jesus flags that looked like Trump 2020 flag. And I think one of the most striking ones is actually the Christian flag being marched into the breached Congressional chamber along with the confederate flag, and that`s a flag that I saw behind the pulpit growing up going to church. I mean, it is a very mainstream Christian symbol.

And I think we really want to understand this insurrection and what happened to our Capitol and our country, we really do have to understand all of the animating forces that went underway (ph). It`s not just political extremism and white supremacy but it is a version of white Christianity that really animated along that, and those people were going side by side on that day.

REID: And we`ve seen -- your data has shown a lot of the sort of Venn diagram that`s starting to form between QAnon and the far-right, and the insurrection. And there were QAnon people there, the QAnon shaman actually leading that prayer, the guy who calls himself the QAnon shaman. Can you explain that? Because it feels in a sense like QAnon is about worshipping Donald Trump, in a sense, as god. Is that what`s happening here? Is Donald Trump sort of -- is this sort of a Baalification of the Christian church sort of worshipping the golden calf and that calf being Trump, or what is that about?

JONES: Well, it`s worth noting, reporting from the ground that day, people in the crowd shouting it`s all in the bible, Trump`s in the bible. And give it up for Jesus, big cheers, let`s give it up for Trump, big cheers, right? This was kind of part of the rhetoric of that day. And even in our survey, we found, yes, that a little bit more than a fifth were white evangelicals or QAnon believers.

But when we asked about violence in particular, it was actually 24 percent, nearly a quarter of white evangelicals in their survey say that because things have gotten so off track in the country, we may have to resort to violence, the true American patriots may have to resort to violence. That`s a quarter of the very mainstream religion in the country that voted 84 percent for President Trump in the last election.

REID: And is there a knowledge and understanding of that at the leadership level of the white evangelical movement or are they in on it?

JONES: I think for a large extent, we didn`t hear -- like in 2016, there was a -- if you looked at the elite leaders, there was a lot more dissent between the never Trump people, like Russell Moore at SBC, and others. And this last election cycle, we did not see that big struggle. I mean, they were pretty much all in for Trump in the election. In fact, they voted slightly higher in 2020 when in (INAUDIBLE) did for Trump, than they did in 2016.

But I think the important thing to remember is that the root of all of this, right, the root of Make America Great Again, the root of QAnon, is this fundamental belief that America was designed and given by God to white European Christians as their private promised land.

[19:15:02]

I mean, that really is the animating force.

And as the country is changing around them, and as those claims seem to be -- are no longer plausible, this is the reason why we see the fights -- I mean, this insurrection committee is about making sense of our history in real-time, right? So the fights around critical race theory, they fights -- it`s all about telling myth of a white Christian America.

And when that falls apart, that`s a fundamental piece of the world view. And I think this group does become very susceptible to delusional believes that prop this up.

REID: Wow. It is fascinating. I definitely have to have you back. Robert Jones, you`re my numbers guy. I love talking with you about this stuff. Thank you so much, have a great weekend and we`ll definitely have you back.

All right, up next on THE REIDOUT, pretty scary stuff. Eight months after the election and Republican sore losers still can`t give up the big lie. Now, Pennsylvania could be getting its own phony ballot audit.

Plus, a parents group in Tennessee, get this, wants to ban a book about civil rights icon Ruby Bridges, because it doesn`t have enough white heroes in it. You see, right just doesn`t want to whitewash history, it wants to erase parts of it completely, just likely the memory loss in Russia.

And raise the big top, Dallas, the CPAC circus has come to town, featuring a laundry list of whiney conservatives grievances that have never been more unhinged, and Little Donny Jr. too.

THE REIDOUT continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:00]

REID: Faced with mounting pressure to do more to protect voting rights amid an onslaught of voter suppression legislation across the country, the White House announced that President Biden will deliver a major speech on voting rights next week in Philadelphia.

The announcement comes one day after leaders of civil rights groups met with the president, calling on him to take a stronger stance on federal voting rights legislation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERRILYN IFILL, PRESIDENT, NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATIONAL FUND: What we emphasized to the president is that our backs are against the wall. This is the moment. There is no more time. We must have legislation.

We must have the president use his voice, use his influence, use his power, and use what he clearly understands about this moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: In Texas, Republicans are full speed ahead in their effort that they -- in their effort.

They introduced two new far-reaching voter suppression bills on the first day of their special suppression session yesterday. They will hold the public hearings on the bills tomorrow.

It should come as no surprise that Republicans in a state that`s already one of the hardest to vote in are trying to make it even harder. On Wednesday, before the session started, Republican Attorney General Ken Paxton`s office arrested Houston voter Hervis Rogers. Paxton is prosecuting Rogers on illegal voting charges for casting a ballot in 2018 and again in March of 2020, after he waited in line for nearly seven hours.

Under Texas law, the formerly incarcerated are prohibited from voting while still on parole. Rogers` parole wasn`t set to end until June 2020. Now, of course, this isn`t the first time a black Texan has been prosecuted under similar circumstances.

Crystal Mason is still fighting a five-year sentence after she was convicted of casting an illegal provisional ballot while on probation in 2016, a vote that was never even counted.

Meanwhile, by giving his voting rights speech in Philadelphia, President Biden is going straight to Republicans` newest front in continuing to further the disgraced former president`s big lie. The Pennsylvania state senator who participated in pro-Trump events in D.C. before the siege on the Capitol is demanding binders full of ballots be delivered to him personally, as he tries to push a partisan audit similar to Arizona`s fraudit in his state.

Joining me now is Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro.

And let`s talk about that. This is the state senator named Doug Mastriano, who wants something like 900,000 audit -- do an audit on something like 900,000 ballots, and I`m assuming in places where people of color vote, right, where the black people vote.

JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Oh, yes.

REID: So that he can sample the paper, sample the ballots.

Can this be stopped? Or are you guys going to be the next Arizona?

SHAPIRO: Well, it will be stopped.

And just examine my track record of stopping efforts to try and disenfranchise are black and brown communities here in Pennsylvania. Look, this is one insurrectionist state senator who is being enabled by the modern-day Republican Party, which is beholden to Donald Trump, who is demanding the private voting information of 997,000 Pennsylvanians in an audit, if he were able to pull it off, which he won`t be, that would cost the taxpayers of just those three counties alone over $30 million.

So he`s not only taking advantage of the taxpayers, to the tune of 30 million bucks, but what he`s also doing is compromising their personal information. He will not get away with it.

REID: And, Attorney Shapiro, I think what scares a lot of us out here in the world is that, in each of these states where Republican insurrectionists are trying to mess with the faith in the last election, and to essentially put in place the tools to steal the next election, is that it all depends on everybody having a Josh Shapiro.

It depends on having enough people in the state that are willing to fight it and that are in a position to fight it. In Arizona, they have disempowered the top elections official to make it harder for her to fight it. There`s a governor there who`s a kiss-up to Trump as well.

It`s scary, because it all depends on the individual morality of public officials.

SHAPIRO: Yes.

REID: Can this go on? Or don`t we need to do this at the federal level?

SHAPIRO: I think we have to do it at all levels.

And, look, sadly, I think Congress seems unable to do it. I think, right now, we all have a responsibility to fight like hell to defend our democracy, whether you`re an attorney general, a secretary of state, a member of Congress, or any average citizen who just cares about the future.

We have to defend the right to vote, defend the right for everyone to be heard, so that we can then work on perfecting our union, make it more inclusive, tackle the big challenges we have.

[19:25:00]

And every single day that insurrectionist state senators like the one here in Pennsylvania focus on disenfranchising people, it`s another day that they`re not fighting for the good people of Pennsylvania and the real challenges that we face.

REID: You know, in a lot of Southern states after the Civil War, of course, these black codes were passed that essentially created enough felonies to keep a lot of black people from voting, because they had these rules that, if you had a felony, you couldn`t vote.

It was a very convenient way of removing black folks from the rolls. Texas is still one of those states. The guy who was prosecuted there, he was on parole. His parole was about to end. I think he believed he could have voted.

SHAPIRO: Yes.

REID: Crystal Mason, she did not know she was not able to vote.

In Pennsylvania, in your state, there was a guy who literally used his mom`s, who died, voting information to vote to get Trump an additional vote.

SHAPIRO: Right.

REID: He got five years probation.

It feels -- I know that the other side doesn`t like to think anything is racial, but the white guy who voted for Trump illegally gets five years probation. And the black guys and the black man and the black woman get the book thrown at them.

SHAPIRO: Yes.

REID: Do you see a disparity there?

SHAPIRO: Absolutely.

Look, what`s happening in Texas is horrible. And, look, there`s some people who are trying to do the same thing here in Pennsylvania. Here`s what I will say in general. Obviously, that`s not my case in Texas.

REID: Sure.

SHAPIRO: But, in general, look, voter fraud is a serious crime. I have prosecuted it. And I think people should be held accountable, including the three people here in Pennsylvania in 2020 who committed voter fraud when they tried to add an extra vote for Donald Trump.

But when it comes to Ken Paxton -- he`s the attorney general of Texas -- let me be very clear. And I know Ken. And I know what goes on in Texas. He cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the people. He was the one who filed the seditious lawsuit trying to disenfranchise millions of Pennsylvania voters...

REID: Right.

SHAPIRO: ... to suck up to Donald Trump and I guess try and get himself a pardon for something.

Here`s the reality, that we all need to be focused on standing up to these attacks on our black and brown communities, whether it`s holding them to a different legal standard, or trying to make it harder for them to vote. That`s the work I do as attorney general. It`s happening here in Pennsylvania. And it sure as hell isn`t happening in Texas.

REID: Yes, I will note that Mr. Paxton does seem to have a negative obsession with your state, with the state of Pennsylvania. And 72 percent of the people he`s prosecuted for voter fraud have been people of color.

I think we will just note that and leave it there.

Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro, thank you very much. Have a great weekend.

OK, and up next: the Republican pearl-clutching over teaching history has escalated to disturbing heights, or is it lows, this time over a children`s book, a children`s book written by one of the faces of the civil rights movement.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:30:00]

REID: One of the most iconic and powerful images of the American civil rights movement is this, this photograph of Ruby Bridges, age 6, who, on November 14, 1960, became the first black child to desegregate a public elementary school in New Orleans.

As she walked into school, escorted by four U.S. Marshals and her mom, Ruby was met with angry mobs of white protesters, including local parents. They screamed racial slurs. They threw objects and spit and yelled. It was a moment so crucial to America`s desegregation journey that young Ruby was depicted in a painting by the Norman Rockwell, a painting later loaned to the Obama White House.

When Ruby Bridges was invited to see it there, President Obama told her: "I think it`s fair to say that, if it wasn`t for you guys, I wouldn`t be here today."

Ruby Bridges is indeed a civil rights icon. But not everyone thinks so. A vocal Tennessee chapter of the group Moms For Liberty wants her story out, out of the classroom, fighting to ban the children`s book "Ruby Bridges Goes to School" written by grown up Ruby Bridges herself.

"The Tennessean" reports the group claims the children`s book is harmful because the -- quote -- "large crowd of angry white people who didn`t want black children in a white school too harshly delineated between black and white people" and that the book didn`t offer redemption at its end.

You see this footage? Those mobs of angry white people who terrorized black children for simply wanting to go to school, they were real. Parents even carried tiny coffins with black dolls inside. Ruby had to pass coffins like these to get inside her school building.

A lot of things don`t feel good about history, war, slavery, genocide, just to name a few. But these things did indeed happen. And only by facing them with the boldness of Ruby Bridges on that first day of school can we understand how we even got here. That`s what separates history from, say, a fairy tale.

The scary part is, history has been ambushed by this fairy tale before. The United Daughters of the Confederacy, which called itself a women`s patriotic society, but really was just a white supremacist ladies club, infamously targeted textbooks that they deemed unjust to the South, including books that spoke of the slaveholder as cruel and unjust to his slaves.

Yes, that`s right. Slaves were to be depicted as happy and well cared for, or else.

This scrubbing, sanitizing and systematic whitewashing of our history also has roots someplace else, namely, Soviet Russia.

And that story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:35:00]

REID: The right`s obsession with rewriting history when it comes to slavery and racism has a disturbing precedent in authoritarianism.

In "The New York Times, " historian Timothy Snyder notes that Republicans banning critical race theory in various states takes a page from Russia`s playbook of using memory laws to rewrite the past.

He writes that: "The memory laws arise in a moment of cultural panic, when national politicians are suddenly railing against revisionist teachings. In Russia, the supposed revisionists are people who write critically about Stalin or honestly about the Second World War. In the United States, the revisionists are people who write about race.

"In both cases, revisionism tends to mean the parts of history that challenge leaders` sense of righteousness or make their supporters uncomfortable. Authoritarianism is infantilizing. We shouldn`t have to feel any negative emotions, and difficult subjects should be kept from us."

Timothy Snyder, the author of that essay and professor of history at Yale University, joins me now.

[19:40:00]

I`m so geeked out and excited that we have managed to book you. I saw Nikole Hannah-Jones tweet out your essay. I then read it twice. It was so good and so fascinating.

So, I want you to just explain to us -- and I think it`s the perfect name for what we`re seeing -- what our memory laws?

TIMOTHY SNYDER, PROFESSOR, YALE UNIVERSITY: I`m so glad to be talking to you.

And I`m so glad I have a chance to talk about this, because I`m an American, I`m a historian, but I don`t -- I work most on other countries. And when I saw these laws passed in the United States and these laws discussed, I was reminded, as you said, of things we have seen in Eastern Europe, and particularly in Russia.

The basic idea of a memory law is to make governing very easy for an authoritarian regime, because it puts everything into the past and it caters to the emotions of a majority.

So, you teach the population and you raise the children to think that the past is just there to make you feel good. And then the future goes away. And then everyone lacks the facts that they need to become aware citizens. Citizenship becomes impossible, because you can only be a good citizen if you know the truths, especially the difficult truths, about your own country.

And you can only raise people to be citizens if you educate them in such a way that they`re looking for those difficult truths, so that, when they grow up, they will know how to challenge power. That`s the way democracy has to work.

REID: And in the past, our memory laws weren`t really laws. They were more bullying.

I mean, the Daughters of the Confederacy enforced that the stories of the Civil War and slavery be told from the Confederate point of view. And they enforce that for decades and decades. Now you`re actually seeing these laws put in that, as you said -- and you talk about this idea of discomfort shouldn`t be there.

These critical -- sort of -- quote, unquote -- "critical race theory bills, " which don`t have anything to do with real critical race theory, it`s -- they all have the same language, in Arizona, Iowa, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Texas.

And this is the language: "An individual should not -- should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or other forms of psychological distress solely because the individual`s race."

So, it bars any teaching that would cause an individual to feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or other form of psychological distress because of their race, meaning you can`t teach, let`s say, about Jim Crow or about Ruby Bridges in a way that says, well, those white people were screaming at Ruby Bridges, because that will make the white kids feel uncomfortable.

You can`t say Jim Crow was done by white people because it would make white kids feel uncomfortable. Those are memory laws, right?

SNYDER: Yes.

And, again, I mean, if it helps, we can look away from our own country for a minute to look at other countries, and we can see what two authoritarian patterns are here. One authoritarian pattern is that, if you put these kind of censorship laws over the heads of teachers, then teachers are going to have to self-censor, right?

So I`m a teacher myself. I teach history. I`m making up my lesson plans, just like thousands of teachers are, in July for September. And I know that those teachers across the country are thinking about these laws. They`re thinking about what they can and can`t teach. And they`re going to be very conservative this fall, and they`re going to teach worse, and the students are going to suffer as a result of it.

That`s one way authoritarianism works, is self-censorship.

The second way it works is denunciation. So, the state lays down the law. The state gives a clear signal of what it doesn`t want to happen, and what should happen, what shouldn`t happen, and then it expects people to rise up and respond. And that`s exactly what`s happening, teachers fired in Tennessee, courses canceled in Oklahoma, because now, suddenly, people feel authorized to enforce their own views about what should be taught in the classroom.

We`re -- unfortunately, Americans respond to that just like everybody else does.

REID: Do we have to start thinking about teachers being arrested, about students who, let`s say, don`t like their history teacher naming them and saying they were teaching things that made me uncomfortable as a white student?

Are we talking about, like, arrests? Like, what should we be really, realistically, being worried about?

SNYDER: Yes, and that`s one of the funny things about these laws is that these laws prove that critical race theory is true.

(LAUGHTER)

SNYDER: If you were on the fence about whether it was true or not, like, these laws prove that it`s true, because the people who are passing these laws are saying, no, we`re not racist, this is really neutral, but, obviously, they`re aiming at a concept of racism which only makes sense to white people, which is that racism is just about feeling discomfort, right?

And I`m sad to say this, but that`s not a concept of racism that can make any sense to anybody who`s not white in this country.

REID: Yes.

SNYDER: And then they`re authorizing folks, as you say, to say, well look, talking about lynching makes me feel uncomfortable. Talking about voter suppression makes me feel guilty.

And those very concepts, guilt and shame, right, we should feel guilty about lynching. We should feel shamed about voter suppression, right? Those are normal human emotions that are part of growing up. Those are normal human emotions that are part of teaching.

I mean, I teach difficult things, and my students have to go through some difficult moments in order to learn.

REID: Yes.

SNYDER: And that`s perfectly natural.

[19:45:00]

These laws, as you say, put teachers in the position of being denounced by students and by parents. And that, frankly, as anybody who has studied the history of this kind of thing knows, is the purpose. That is the point.

REID: Yes.

SNYDER: That it what is now supposed to happen.

REID: I have taught lynching to white students, to predominantly white students. And it`s uncomfortable to talk about it. They faced it like better adults than a lot of these adults.

And you know who feels really uncomfortable seeing the bodies of lynched black people? Black kids, knowing that that is somebody who looked like them that I don`t think that any of these so-called fake critical race theory people ever think about.

Timothy Snyder, you are great. I hope everyone will read your piece. I`m going to put it again on my social media.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

OK, and up next on THE REIDOUT: The conservative freak show arrives in none other than the suppression state itself, Texas, to praise their orange Florida godhead.

Meanwhile, one right-wing snowflake is urging conservatives to pack up their belongings and move.

My Friday political panel and I will discuss how quickly we can help them get their bags packed next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:00]

REID: This weekend, thousands of highly triggered conservatives are in Texas, the suppression state, to whine about how their guy lost and to rail against cancel culture by pushing to cancel people and things.

Don`t expect much talk about how they lost the Senate, House and the White House in the span of one presidential term under their mango Mussolini. This weekend`s tent revival is a veritable who`s-who of conservative snowflakes, like rotting tree puncher and part-time North Carolina Congressman Madison Cawthorn, Colorado gun Zoom background enthusiastic and Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, and Texas Congressman Ronny Jackson, who, after an investigation, was found to have run a hostile and booze-laden work environment when he was the White House physician, which he denies.

Donald Trump Jr., the perpetual man child desperate for daddy`s attention and the love Donald Sr. will never give him, was the featured speaker today.

But, much like his name, he`s second fiddle to his orange-hued papa, who is set to speak on Sunday afternoon.

I would play you a clip, but it was a lot of incoherent and nonsensical squealing strung together in a Mad Libs of conservative trigger words.

Today`s CPAC is a far cry from the original gathering of Republican, libertarian, social conservatives, and foreign policy hawks headlined by Ronald Reagan. It`s now become a rally for Trumpian extremism, complete with a golden calf -- I mean, statue -- to the one-term, twice-impeached former Queens resident.

Joining me now is Juanita Tolliver, Democratic strategist and MSNBC political analyst, and Tim Miller, writer at large for The Bulwark.

Oh, Tim, how far CPAC has fallen. Where is its dignity, Tim?

TIM MILLER, THE BULWARK: Well, first, Joy, in case any of your viewers are also having this experience, I swore we just did this.

Like, I had to Google it earlier this week when I got an e-mail. I was like, didn`t we just have this? And if you were a soulless, money-grubbing grifter, you would want to be reanimated as Matt Schlapp...

(LAUGHTER)

MILLER: ... because he has apparently found a way to make CPAC happen more than once a year now.

It`s all -- it`s like literally. It`s unbelievable.

REID: And -- yes.

MILLER: So, yes, look, it is a big change.

There are -- yes, there are just -- they`re three issues on the table down in Texas today. It is making sure that Nazis have free speech online, making sure that woke teachers do not have free speech in the classroom, and imaginary voter fraud.

That`s it.

REID: Yes.

MILLER: That`s it.

REID: That`s pretty much it.

MILLER: You talked about the old three-legged stool. Obviously, there can be disagreements on the policy back in the day on social conservatism, national security, economic conservatism.

REID: It`s gone.

MILLER: But we certainly are a far cry from that.

REID: Yes, every day is CPAC. I don`t know if anybody told you, Tim, but it`s like we`re in hell.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: Every day is CPAC forever for the rest of our lives. Yes, that`s right.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: So, Juanita, let me bring you in here, because the Democrats are dealing with it as well.

But before we get to the Democrats, they`re dealing with their own issues, but I got to get to Dan Bongino. And I want to just ask you, as a woman of power and authority, how can we help him move? Let`s strategize for him. You`re a strategist.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: Dan Bongino has said that we need to get away from these liberals, like you, get away from these people. "We have to evacuate these liberal states and shrink the federal government to the point where we can live in our own freedom and liberty-loving enclave."

As a Democratic strategist, how can we pack him up and his friends and get them the hell on?

JUANITA TOLLIVER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Joy, as my grandma would say, don`t let the door hit you.

Like, do this. Get gone now, literally. This is some -- this is the ultimate reversal of woe is me. And even in his diatribe that he delivered on his radio show, he literally went from aggressively attacking progressives and calling us thugs and liars to saying, OK, I need a safe space now.

(LAUGHTER)

TOLLIVER: And I`m just like, my head is spinning even trying to listen to the incoherent thoughts that he was spewing.

But correct me if I`m wrong, Joy, but this is a commentator who spews hate and lies on a regular basis, almost daily basis, now claiming that he needs a safe space, after calling that, even questioning that concept for years and laughing at the concept. Now he`s so fragile. Now he needs to run and hide and he needs protection, when the reality is, I`m ready to be done with you.

REID: Just go.

TOLLIVER: Move as far away as you can.

REID: Right.

TOLLIVER: Move. Go. Bye.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: Nobody`s saying stay, brother. Nobody`s like, oh, won`t you please stay?

We`re like, go. Go wherever you`re going. Just make it fast. Go. Let Ted Cruz help you. He knows how to get to Mexico.

All right, let`s go on to Stephen Miller.

TOLLIVER: Ted Cruz definitely can help him book a flight.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: He can help him. We had a Tumi bag and everything. He could pack him right up.

Let`s talk about Stephen Miller, speaking of creepy and weird people.

So, Stephen Miller has crawled back out of the crypt. And his new thing is to go on and brag about the great hand that Donald Trump left to Joe Biden. He said: "No president history has been dealt a better hand on day one than President Biden. Think about what Trump left him and what it`s become."

[19:55:00]

I`m going to put it up here, as you comment on that. Trump inherited 75 straight months of job growth, 4.7 percent unemployment, six straight years of GDP growth, and the lowest uninsured rate on record. And Biden inherited the opposite.

Your thoughts, Tim?

MILLER: You know, look, I mean, obviously, there`s no reason to argue with this on the merits.

But I think that it`s an important reflection of the alternate universe that they`re living in, right? There is a completely alternate -- alternate information universe that`s hermetically sealed from reality. Like, no real information is coming in or going out.

And it`s dangerous. I mean, this is -- we can`t -- you can tie everything back to 1/6, right? I mean, this is how you get people believing that the election that they lost, they actually won, that climate change isn`t happening.

This is -- it`s part of the new information kind of ecosystem. And it`s actually really incumbent on us to try to pop that bubble in different ways possible. And it`s -- and that`s going to be important, both for our polity, just our nation, but also for the Democrats strategically, because he can say that stuff because they believe it, right?

REID: Yes.

MILLER: Because that -- they`re just living in a world where that is true for them. Things were so great for Donald Trump, and he left Joe Biden this amazing -- this amazing economy.

He can get away from -- saying that because they`re not -- they`re not listening or looking at the stats or getting other news information into their bubble.

REID: Yes, and they`re soon going to be getting their weather from FOX News.

MILLER: Right.

REID: They`re going to be going outside with no raincoats in storms and stuff, because they`re -- they`re just going to believe, that ain`t real rain. That`s like a lie from the right -- a lie from the libs.

Let`s talk about the Supreme Court, Juanita, because this is the challenge the Democrats are having, is that I don`t think any of them really understand what`s happening that are -- that work in Washington. I think they think that everything`s fine and that, like, these Republicans are basically just iterations of Ronald Reagan. They don`t understand fascism is real.

And so there`s now a dear colleague letter that was written by Chuck Schumer, Majority Leader Schumer, just sort of inching Breyer out the door. It doesn`t seem like Breyer is in a hurry. He`s probably like, no, I`m good here. And if anything happens to me, you guys will just get a 7-2 court.

Your thoughts?

TOLLIVER: That`s exactly right. That`s exactly right, Joy.

I feel like -- I feel the pressure. I`m surprised at the lack of discretion here from Schumer. But I definitely see the pressure. I`m not sure Breyer is going to take it. He is fine. He is comfortable. He is healthy, more than anything.

So he`s probably like, I`m just going to ride this out. But we know that pressure is growing. We know that progressive groups, even last month, released an ad from Demand Justice saying, hey, Breyer, make room so that we can have the first black woman to send to the Supreme Court while Democrats have -- while Democrats have control of the Senate.

And so Democrats are right to feel the pressure. Schumer is right to feel the pressure. But I`m surprised at the lack of discretion on display here, Joy. I feel like this is -- this is the most explicit, hey, sir, your time`s up. Come on. Come on out.

(LAUGHTER)

REID: Yes.

TOLLIVER: We have the majority.

And I feel like Schumer is definitely looking at the clock to 2020, realizing that the clock is ticking on what Democratic control of the Senate could look like.

REID: I hope that he is looking at the clock, Tim, because the thing that scares me about Democrats right now is the -- what I feel like is a lack of urgency.

And I don`t know if you feel the same way watching them.

MILLER: Well, look, I think that that`s certainly true on Breyer, just really quick on that.

I mean, Mitch McConnell said that, even in 2023, he wouldn`t promise to fill the seats, right?

REID: Right.

MILLER: And so I think that the Democrats -- actually, the Senate maps better for them than the House. Chuck Schumer could -- could keep control of the Senate. And, at that point, it would be moot. But time is ticking to January 2023.

I think, as a general matter on their urgency, this -- the thing that I`m missing is, where is the strategic approach to say, what are things that Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema can get on board with and let`s get those things passed, and then deal with everything else, right?

REID: Yes.

MILLER: I mean, I do think that, like, there is a lot of, oh, we`re blaming Manchin, oh, we -- he can`t do this, and so now we`re just going to negotiate, negotiate, try to find 10 Republicans, never going to happen, rather than saying, hey, maybe we can get not everything that we want, but at least get some points on the scoreboard here...

REID: Yes.

MILLER: ... while we know we have control of all three branches.

I`m surprised we haven`t seen that. Maybe that`s what they move to in the fall. But time is ticking on that.

REID: I think he wants his Koch brothers Junior Birdman badge. I think that`s what he`s looking for.

Juanita Tolliver and Tim Miller, thank you all very much.

And a ticket to CPAC.

Before we go tonight, our "Moment of Joy."

Fourteen-year-olds Zaila Avant-garde became the first African-American to win the Scripps Spelling Bee last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZAILA AVANT-GARDE, SCRIPPS NATIONAL SPELLING BEE WINNER: M-U-R-R-A-Y-A.

WOMAN: That is correct.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: I love it.

Zaila has many other talents besides spelling. She holds three, three Guinness World Records for juggling basketballs, and has some really impressive goals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AVANT-GARDE: I definitely...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at this.

(CROSSTALK)

AVANT-GARDE: ... something like going to Har -- yes, going to Harvard to play basketball, and then maybe going to the WNBA or overseas or something, before I, like, go into my next thing of, like, working with NASA or something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Oh, she`s so cute.

That is tonight`s REIDOUT.

"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.