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Transcript: The ReidOut, 7/26/21

Guests: Pete Aguilar, Christina Greer, Olivia Troye, Charlie Crist, Chris Pernell, Adrian Perkins

Summary

Schiff says the January 6 hearing will include new insurrection video. Officer will testify tomorrow on January 6 trauma. Rep. McCarthy calls Representatives Cheney and Kinzinger Pelosi Republicans. Democratic activists are raising the alarm about the impact of a raft of voter suppression laws on future elections in battleground states and really everywhere. Civil rights icon Bob Moses dies at 86. A massive heat wave has descended upon the United States with nearly 30 million people likely to see temperatures reach or exceed 100 degrees by the end of the week.

Transcript

ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: You can go watch the video yourself and takes on a lot of different issues and layers but it also raises some money for the bail project, a none profit, it`s tries to end on - systems. And the song featured Jack Harlow, What`s poppin`? That does it for us. "THE REIDOUT" starts now, Tiffany Cross in for Joy.

Hi, Tiffany.

TIFFANY CROSS, MSNBC HOST: Hey, Ari. What`s Poppin`? I love being tossed by you, because I always going to bop right before we go on air. So, thanks so much, my friend.

MELBER: You`ll get a bop right on your way.

CROSS: Exactly. Thanks, Ari, have a good night. And good evening to you at home everybody, I`m Tiffany Cross in for Joy Reid.

And we begin THE REIDOUT tonight just hours away from the first hearing of the House select committee to investigate the January 6th attack where, according to committee member Adam Schiff, there will be video, the public has not yet seen. We`ll hear from four members of the Capitol Police who will detail the trauma they experienced when a mob of Trump supporters, some even carrying flags supporting the police, stormed their way into the Capitol.

Now, here`s some of what we`ll likely hear tomorrow from the officers who will be testifying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. AGUILINO GONELL, CAPITOL POLLCE: For the some people, January 6 just happened in one day. For me, for every responding officer, it is nonstop.

HARRY DUNN, CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER: While the fight was happening, I didn`t process it while it was happening. So once you, it`s all over and you`re attempting to put together in your mind what happened.

DANIEL HODGES, METRO PD OFFICER: I got pinned to the doorway. They ripped my mask off, stole my equipment, beat me up, spray me everything.

MICHAEL FANONE, METRO PD OFFICER: I do grapple with PTSD as a result of that day. It really like cannibalizes you. It just eats you alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROSS: Now, according to Capitol Police, 140 officers were injured during the insurrection, the irony of the blue eyes matter crowd. And the DOJ says that more than 165 individuals have been charged with assaulting or impeding law enforcement.

In a statement announcing tomorrow`s hearing, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that, quote, we have the duty to the Constitution and the country to find the truth of the January 6 insurrection and to ensure that such an assault on our democracy cannot happen again.

Now, this week, Speaker Pelosi announced that Illinois Republican Adam Kinzinger would join a select committee. Now, Kinzinger, you remember have voted to impeached Trump earlier this year and is the second Republican on the committee alongside Congresswoman Liz Cheney.

Now this came after Republican Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy pulled of his picks from the committee after Pelosi rejected Congressman Jim Banks and Jim Jordan who vote for fuse to certify the election. In a statement, Kinzinger said, I`m a Republican dedicated to conservative values, but I swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. And while this is not the position I expected to be in, or sought out, when duty calls, I will always answer.

Now, here is how McCarthy reacted to that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Some Republicans have been saying that the GOP should play ball on this committee.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Who was that, Adam and Liz?

REPORTER: Well.

MCCARTHY: Aren`t they kind of like Pelosi Republicans?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROSS: Pelosi Republicans. Now, Liz Cheney, who will give opening remarks tomorrow after a Democratic Chair Bennie Thompson, she had this response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (D-WY): Look, we`re about -- it`s a very serious business. We have something important work to do and I think that`s a great job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROSS: All right. Let`s get into it.

Joining me now is Congressman Pete Aguilar of California. He`s a member of the committee we`ve been talking about the select committee to investigate January 6th, Christina Greer, Associate Professor of Political Science at Fordham University, and Olivia Troye, she was a former Senior Aide to White House Coronavirus Task Force and Director of the Republican Accountability Project.

Congressman Aguilar, I`m very happy to have you join the program tonight ahead of a big day that you have tomorrow. Look, I know we`re going to hear from the police officers tomorrow. I think everybody is very eager to hear the testimony of some of the folks that the committee will call.

So, aside from the police officers, who is on your list of people who we`ll hear from?

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): Well, tomorrow is about those police officers that you mentioned. And so that`s what we`re going to do first. That`s going to lay the groundwork and set the frame for the conversation that we`re going to have about the January 6 commission.

But it is so important that the public gets to hear directly from these four officers who were the last line of defense protecting our democracy, protecting this Capitol building and protecting us from all these insurrectionists.

And so it`s going to be important to hear them out. We want to hear their stories. We want them to share their perspectives. There will be plenty of time for us to get to the next steps. But right now, it`s about these four officers and their experiences and what they went through on January 6 and continue to deal with.

[19:05:01]

CROSS: Well, I want to stick with you for a second because we`ll all be riveted, I`m sure, from their testimony. We`ll certainly be talking about it tomorrow on THE REIDOUT. But I am curious for the -- when you subpoena other people, how exactly will you enforce subpoenas? Because once the police officers testify, there is a lot of leftover questions, you know, Don Jr. spoke at that rally, kim Guilfoyle spoke at that rally, Donald Trump himself, the conversation with Kevin McCarthy. So for the people who testify, I want to share that information now, how will you ensure that they show up to testify before this committee?

AGUILAR: Well, there are tools the committee has in our tool belt. We hope it won`t come to that, but we`ll be prepared to exhaust every scenario in order to compel people to share what happened. Our goal, our charge, our mission is to tell the story about January 6, what led up to the 6th, who funded it, and how we make sure this never happens again.

And so we`re going to exhaust every avenue available, and if that means using the courts to enforce things, then we will. But we hope it doesn`t come to that. But there are tools that the committee has in our tool belt. I`ll follow the lead of our chairman and make sure that we are exercising every possible way that we can compel people to come before us.

CROSS: All right. Well, it took Don McGahn two years to battle a court battle to finally testify, so hopefully it won`t take that long.

Christina, let me turn to you, here, because one thing that I think a lit bit frustrating with the American public is why exactly does this committee have to be so bipartisan, you know? It`s like if you were prosecuting Dave Koresh, you`re not ever thinking we should get the Branch Davidians on the committee too, so to get their perspective. What do you think the intention of having a bipartisan committee is?

CHRISTINA GREER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Well, I mean the intent should be that all Americans should be all concerned, and disgusted and a aggrieved by what happened on January 6. Sadly, it`s primarily Democrats who view the insurrectionist of what happened on January 6 as real assault not just on the Capitol but on American democracy at large. Republican have yet to most -- have yet to fully acknowledge it. We know the back track. They have tried to rewrite history. They say it`s just a few tourists who got turned around. Oh, with a march that was, you know, just a little bit unsavory, but it`s not that big of a deal.

And we`ve seen not just the deaths but obviously the aftermath for police officers to say nothing of the staff that was in that building, especially immigrants of color, immigrants who knew they were definitely in such a dangerous position. So it really has to be Democrats pushing their Republican colleagues to acknowledge the truth and facts. With this idea that we`re even divided as to what happened on January 6 when we see it with our own eyes is really something where I think that`s the images behind Nancy Pelosi to say if this affected the entire American populace, we need to have both sides at the table, but we see the reticence of Republican to even acknowledge what happen on that day that is so well documented in so many different ways.

CROSS: It`s so well documented, and we said in the open, Olivia, that there`s going to be footage that we still have not seen even after all the new footage that has come out. I mean, is this really a political win for Kevin McCarthy? I mean, there has to be some level of sensible Republicans who see with their own eyes and ears what happened and they hear Republicans right before them try to rewrite history and say, don`t believe your lying eyes, this didn`t happen. Is this going to work?

OLIVIA TROYE, DIRECTOR, REPUBLICAN ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT: I don`t think it`s a political win, but what it does do, it is going to gives them the opportunity to create more disinformation, is what I fear, and they will spin this and do their own charades on the side, and I think that`s partially why it`s so important to have Republicans sitting on the committee, because you can`t call this nonpartisan right now.

I mean, like they tried. we tried that route, they tried that route, Congress tried that route, they tried to do a bipartisan commission and all these people voted against it. So it is important that the truth come out. Tomorrow morning, I think, will be an emotionally, very raw hearing. But I think Americans, the average American citizen needs to hear it from these officers.

Let`s remember the Republican Party touted the blue lives matter movement. And so blue lives matter and we`re going to hear about these courageous officers, what they face and had what they saw, and that truth needs to be on the record.

CROSS: So, Olivia, I want to stick with you here because you left the Trump White House in August of 2020. Now, the White House records from November 3rd to January 20th have yet to be subpoenaed. Because you were there so close to that time, what might those White House records reveal?

TROYE: Well, I think you need to look back on what happened last summer. I think you need to look at the (INAUDIBLE). I think that those records will show what happened in the dereliction of duty across the cabinet, where were people at the time, what was communicated and what wasn`t.

And what really happened in the Oval Office. -- Who was in the Oval Office, who was communicating and who actually expressed concerns and raised these concerns, because those are the people that really need to come forward and really state the facts so that we don`t allow this to happen again in the future

(19:1019:) You know, we have upcoming elections. I have no doubted that we will see more attacks on our democracy as state Capitols are on the Hill. I hope not, but this hearing, this committee, all of these investigations and these facts will help us prevent that in future. That`s why it`s so critical of this investigation matters so much.

CROSS: Yes. Well, so my last question to you, Olivia, you were an aide to Mike Pence, and I`m very careful not to completely sanitize him here because he did stand by Trump during a lot of horrific things, but because you worked for him and know him, do you think that he would be cooperative with this committee -- if should he be subpoenaed? Will he show up and testify?

TROYE: I would hope that he would. And I would hope that he would tell the truth. Because he himself lived it, firsthand, his life was threatened, the life of his family.

And, look, I hope his Chief of Staff comes forward. But I will be very honest about this. I lived when the impeachment firsthand inside the White House, and I know what they`re capable of, and I just hope in this situation in terms of national security and our democracy at stake that the truth will prevail and people will do the right thing. It`s the right thing for our country. Republicans, Democrats, whatever party you are.

CROSS: Congressman Aguilar, what are we going to hear tomorrow that we have not heard before?

AGUILAR: What you`re going to hear these officers and their own words. And you`re going to hear them not just in a sound bite, not in 30 seconds, they`re going to have some time to answer the questions but also to give their own testimony. They submitted written testimony so far, and I think it`s going to be incredibly compelling.

And I think you can also expect to see some videos and some still images as well as members question these officers about their experiences. And I think it will be important, I think it will be emotional, and I think it`s going to be an important process as a building block to our further conversations about what happened on January 6.

CROSS: Krissie, this is one thing that I`m very concern about. You know, we saw what happened on January 6. And my question that I think will likely live in perpetuity at this point, is will this wing of the party, the Republican Party, the MAGA sycophants, will they ever accept elections results that they don`t like? We have midterms coming up.

So let`s say by an oracle the Democrats keep the House and the Senate, well do we have to worry about another insurrection the 0ph. Trump may disappear, Trumpism is here. Do we have to worry about violent as state legislature? I mean, what is that look like from now on until this political violence that we`ve seen?

GREER: I think we do, Tiffany. I mean, we can`t forget, you know the life of Gretchen Whitmer, the Governor of Michigan.

CROSS: Yes.

GREER: I mean we saw that there was an entire plot, not just to kidnap her. But Democrat in the state house in the state of Michigan. You know I think one of the most insidious and dangerous things for Donald Trump has done is to call in question truth and facts. So that type of ethos has lasted long after his presidency and I feared it will. You have one-third of say, the Republican Party that are the MAGA-ites, but sadly the other two-thirds go along with what the MAGA-ites say.

CROSS: Right.

GREER: And so to me that`s just as bad. If you have a sort of jelly spined Republicans who refuse to stand up and do what is right, as Olivia has mention, then they might as well wear the red hats and essentially stand up with the insurrection if they`re not going to stand up and do what`s right for this country. So that`s a great concern Tiffany, because we know in 2022 we`ll have contentious elections.

We know that we have got governorships. We know that we have two-thirds of the Senate. We got the entire House coming up for re-election, and if Republicans aren`t happy with the results, then they just say that it`s false. That`s a very Donald Trumpian claim that Republicans have embraced and Democrats quite honestly haven`t been firm enough in passing voting rights legislation and protections. Not just on federal level but in state house all across the country to make sure that we are all protected. This isn`t just about protecting Democrats to make sure Democrats stay into office, this is about protecting all Americans so that they have equal rights at the ballot. We saw this in Georgia in 2018, when Brian Kemp did what his genetic - in the Republican primary. And - Republicans realizing that this was not fair. But then again it`s working out in their favor when Brian Kemp essentially stole the election to Stacey Abrams. We cannot have that as far as our democracy, not just domestically but internationally as well that weaken us.

CROSS: Right globally Congressman Aguilar, I asked all members, I interview this question and I`m curious of your perspective here. I know you`re on the committee, so it`s a tough question to answer before the hearings kick off. We`ve seen that some members of Congress fraternize with some of the insurrectionists. You work at the crime scene, essentially. Do you feel safe working at Capitol Hill, and do you suspect some of your colleagues may have intentionally or unintentionally aided of these insurrectionists?

AGUILAR: I knew that there are Capitol Police officers who are protecting us day in and day out, just like the four who were going to testify, the two Capitol police officers and two Metro D.C. Police officers who will testify tomorrow. But Member herish is something that is incredibly real and it is something that we think about very often here. And you know, I don`t know what my colleagues and what some of them, who they talk to. We saw one of these members, Mr. Banks, travel to the border with someone who was here on the Capitol grounds on January 6.

I mean, that`s ridiculous. And so I think that members continue to have issues, and I think that that`s somlething that hopefully this committee will get to the bottom of. But if members have nothing to hide, then they should be fine, and they should be willing to share their perspectives. But my suspicion is that some of them may not be as forthcoming as they should be.

CROSS: All right. Well, we will certainly be tuned in tomorrow and we`ll have that coverage live and we`ll also be talking about it tomorrow night on THE REIDOUT. So thank you so much Congressman Pete Aguilar, Christina Greer and Olivia Troye.

And up next on THE REIDOUT, for the first time, a federal agent issues a vaccine mandate as Republicans belatedly try to undo the vaccine intolerance that they themselves are responsible for.

And, is it time to masked up again. I think that question may have already been answer.

Plus, the passing of civil rights leader and educator Bob Moses and what we can learn from the voting rights battles he fought decades ago. THE REIDOUT continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:58]

CROSS: All right, the pandemic is spiraling out of control yet again, with hospital beds filling up, some of the sick even turned away. And those devastating stories of loss and so much death are back.

And, still, none of this seems to be swaying the millions who refuse to get vaccinated or even wear a mask, which is why some state governments and agencies are stepping up the mandates.

Today, California announced it will require all state employees and health care workers to be vaccinated or face regular frequent testing. That`s almost 250,000 employees. And the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs will require its 115,000 front-line health care workers to take the job, making it the first federal agency to mandate that employees be inoculated.

Elected Republicans who have sowed vaccine hostility for political gain are fighting these mask mandates or ignoring the problem altogether. Florida now accounts for 20 percent of all cases in the U.S., but it`s governor, Florida man Ron DeSantis, is more focused on his presidential ambitions, rather than addressing the catastrophe at home.

One of the many reasons Democratic Congressman Charlie Crist is now running for governor of Florida. He joins me now, along with health physician Dr. Chris Pernell

So happy to have you both here.

And, Congressman, I have got to start with you.

This news about the VA mandating vaccines is quite striking. I mean, it`s very interesting to see a federal agency take this stand. Should more federal agencies or even state and local government agencies make it a mandate? And do you think we will see more of that?

REP. CHARLIE CRIST (D-FL): I do think there will be more of that. And I think it probably is appropriate.

As we always say, you need to rely upon the experts, like the gentleman I`m on with today with you. But physicians, health care workers, they should be the ones that make these kinds of calls. But as it continues to increase, particularly in my Florida -- we`re leading the nation in this outbreak right now with the Delta variant -- it`s heartbreaking.

And, sadly, the governor is playing Russian roulette with this issue. And in the meantime, he`s going to Texas and campaigning for president. He goes to Aspen and Pennsylvania and all around the country. The job of being the governor of Florida is an important job. I used to have it, and it matters and it makes a difference in people`s lives.

And if he would simply advocate for people to wear masks and get the vaccine, he can have a major impact in making Florida healthier, because, in the meantime, my fellow Floridians, many of them, sadly, are losing their life.

CROSS: I mean, it`s striking that all these cases are coming out of Florida.

Dr. Pernell, let me just say the congressman`s on Capitol Hill, so he can`t see you.

But I`m curious, from you, over four million people have died from COVID. How many people have died from taking the vaccine?

DR. CHRIS PERNELL, PUBLIC HEALTH PHYSICIAN: Well, over 610,000 approximately have died from COVID. Over 34 million have had cases.

Those who have died from the vaccine, that would be a number that we need to drill down on specifically, Tiffany. And I want to say this and make it very clear, we don`t have any evidence that there are direct links between the COVID-19 vaccines and death. We have people who have died who have also been vaccinated, and that`s being investigated. That`s being analyzed.

We`re looking to see if there is a causation or -- meaning causality, or there`s just a correlation. Bottom line, these vaccines are safe. Bottom line, these vaccines are effective. And politicians, unfortunately, are manipulating and playing on the fears of the public, and really are fueling disinformation and misinformation.

And that really has to stop.

CROSS: Right. And over four million have died worldwide, over 600,000 right here in the United States.

Let me ask you a quick question, Dr. Pernell. This Delta variant in Florida, I`m really curious because, from your medical expertise -- this is me talking as a layperson -- I would think, in Florida, the weather`s warmer, people are outside more, which, allegedly, that has a lower transfusion rate.

[19:25:06]

Why is it so rampant in Florida?

PERNELL: I think it`s rampant in Florida because politics has gotten in the way of science and politics has gotten in the way of our -- and data.

And what do I mean by that? We don`t politicize wearing a seat belt. We don`t politicize wearing a helmet on your bike. We don`t politicize the size to have childhood immunizations in order to go to school.

But we have politicized mask-wearing. We have politicized getting a vaccine. And those are things that we know are bread-and-butter staples in preventive medicine.

But we do have politicians who are standing up. We do have those saying, look, we need to stop with the Russian roulette, as the congressman just said. Think about Senator Menendez and Senator Collins, the bill that they have before both houses in Congress looking to establish a 9/11-style commission to look at what happened during this COVID-19 response and to help paint a blueprint for how we should respond to public health emergencies.

We need to see more of that.

CROSS: Yes, you raise an interesting point. People weren`t saying, I refuse to get this polio vaccine, or I don`t want that tuberculosis vaccine. I mean, it`s very weird to see this become a political debate.

Congressman, I want you to listen to Missouri`s Attorney General Eric Schmitt. He was on FOX News today. And I will get your reaction on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC SCHMITT, MISSOURI ATTORNEY GENERAL: You have raging violent crime, and their solution for public safety is defunding the police and requiring masks for those who are vaccinated and kids.

It`s a complete failure. It`s about control. And people have had enough. And I`m going to stick up for the people in my state who`ve had enough. And that`s why we`re going to file a lawsuit today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROSS: This is insane.

I mean, even if you want to follow this crazy, alleged "they`re trying to control me" mentality, at some point, doesn`t self-preservation kick in? Don`t you want to live? Don`t you want your children to live? How do you explain this kind of ridiculous outlook?

CRIST: I can`t. That`s inexplicable.

To say that people want control, and that`s why they are advising people to wear a mask or get a vaccine is one of the most absurd things. People want to try to help people save their life. That`s what`s going on. It`s like Dr. Fauci says. One of the most basic things we can do, just get the vaccine, wear a mask when you`re in public.

And I think the reason it`s spiking in Florida, in addition to not having good leadership from our governor, and he`s out gallivanting around the country, is the fact that it is warm. I agree with the doctor. So a lot of people are inside in air conditioning. That`s why Florida kind of boomed.

We got rid of mosquitoes, and we got rid of hot temperatures. But the real point here is that we have a governor that`s not leading.

CROSS: Right.

CRIST: And it breaks my heart to say that, but he -- all he needs to do is stand up and say, listen, maybe my party doesn`t like me saying that you ought to wear a mask or you ought to get vaccine, but, as the governor of the state of Florida, I`m telling you, you need to do it to save your life.

That would be the right thing to do. He needs to have the moral courage to do it.

CROSS: Well, he has kind of said get the vaccine, but it`s a mixed message, right, because he`s also promised to use his power to invalidate local emergency measures.

He sued the CDC, trying to prevent them from having cruise lines require passengers to be vaccinated. He stepped up his personal animosity towards Dr. Fauci for some reason.

I mean, who is the countervoice to him? I understand that you`re running for governor and you have a platform as well. But who are the community validators saying, yes, this guy is nuts and you guys need to get vaccinated?

CRIST: Any health care expert in this in the state of Florida is saying that.

And I`m saying that, so I guess I`m the countervoice right now with you, Tiffany. And it`s sad that has to occur. When I was governor, I understood that working across the aisle, working for the betterment of the people, when you get elected governor, as a Republican or a Democrat, you don`t get elected the governor of the Republicans of Florida. You don`t get elected the governor of the Democrats of Florida.

You get elected governor of the people of Florida. And you`re supposed to work for them all. And if it`s a little counter to his politics to tell people that wearing a mask is a good idea, or being vaccinated is really lifesaving, then maybe he should go out of politics and get into another profession, because what he`s doing is wrong, and it`s costing lives.

CROSS: Yes, his ambition is outpacing his good sense, I`d imagine.

Thank you so much, Congressman Charlie Crist, for being here and, of course, as always, Dr. Chris Pernell.

And don`t go anywhere at home, because, still ahead: A handful of grifters are earning big bucks by spreading vaccine misinformation that is straight up killing people. I mean, honestly, how can this even be legal?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:34:04]

CROSS: All right, with the country now facing a pandemic of the unvaccinated, health officials in areas where COVID is surging are also contending with the underlying cause.

The top public health official in Northwestern Louisiana, Dr. Martha Whyte, told "The New York Times" they are stuck. "The Times" notes that: "Facing deep mistrust stoked by conservative news outlets and lawmakers and by rampant misinformation online, local health officials like Dr. Whyte are fighting for influence."

The Biden administration has pointed the finger at tech companies for enabling vaccine misinformation online. And "The Times" reports one source, Florida osteopathic Dr. Joseph Mercola, the most influential spreader of misinformation.

Now, this guy has published more than 600 articles on Facebook casting doubt on the vaccines. And his audience is substantial. He has 2.7 million combined followers on his English and Spanish-language pages. He`s at the top of a very short list of just 12 people, the Disinformation Dozen, as they`re known, that produces 65 percent of anti-vaccine information on social media.

[19:35:12]

I`m joined now by Mayor Adrian Perkins of Shreveport, Louisiana, and Ben Collins, NBC News senior reporter.

Ben, I got to start with you here.

This is so insane that this kind of rampant disinformation is having this big of an impact. And I have to tell you, I am not excluded from it. It reaches my text chats. It reaches my D.M.s It reaches my e-mail inbox.

I`m curious, since you have been following this, is there one specific platform that traffics in more disinformation than the other? Or is this stuff spreading like wildfire?

BEN COLLINS, NBC NEWS SENIOR REPORTER: It`s different kinds of platforms.

So, on Telegram, that`s where it`s sort of unregulated. It`s the Wild West there. And with Telegram, people operate without code words or anything like that. On Facebook, they have to sort of like get through the censors to talk about anti-vaccine information.

But on Telegram, it`s a Wild West, and they use that sort of as an ammo dump to go to Facebook to try to convince what they call normies, normal people, to not take the vaccine.

And what you see with that Disinformation Dozen is, you see a lot of people who are reputation laundering. They`re taking -- they have a doctor title in front of their name. And a lot of people say, hey, look, look at this paper from this doctor. This doctor says, don`t take the vaccine, it`s not safe.

Now, there`s a lot of reasons why that guy behaves that way. But they`re -- that`s the big thing they do, is they share around these, like, edge cases and these extreme, like faraway blogs onto Facebook and Telegram.

And that`s how it gets pushed out to regular people in real life.

CROSS: Which is so scary. I mean, the virus is not killing us as fast as ignorance, right?

Mr. Mayor, let me ask you, because, look, I think there are two different buckets of people, right? You have some, I would call them the MAGA crowd, who I always try to make this point. They have never known actual oppression, so they assume things like mask mandates are oppression.

And then you have a different bucket of people. You have people of color who are very distrustful of government and the health care industry, for reasons that are deeply rooted in historical fact and data.

I think these two groups of people need different messaging and different messengers. In your area of Louisiana, do you have an equal amount of these people who are both, quite frankly, in danger at this point? And how do you message to those very different groups?

ADRIAN PERKINS (D), MAYOR OF SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA: Yes, Tiffany, you`re absolutely right.

That`s what the city of Shreveport, we`re primarily composed of, very conservative Republicans. So you have those political winds pushing against us. And then we have a majority population of African-Americans as well. And we know the historical faults and mistrust with African-Americans in our public health system.

So we have been fighting that from day one here. And that`s the reason why we find ourselves as one of the lowest vaccination places in the country right now.

And the way that we kind of beat back against that is really what we`re seeing at this point is very incrementally and with relationships, I mean, talking to our family members, talking to the people that are at our churches, and using our personal relationships, our relationships that we have catered for a lifetime, to really -- that`s what it takes to overcome all the misinformation that is out there that is literally killing people in my community.

CROSS: Literally.

And, look, I have people in my family who were distrustful, but I have to say a lot of people have since come around. So it`s very scary.

Ben, I`m curious why these platforms aren`t kicking folks off. Like, this doctor we talked about in the open, how is it he`s allowed to stay on the platform? I mean, Donald Trump finally got kicked off. When they see people with this huge a reach spreading disinformation, how are they allowed to persist?

COLLINS: Specifically, with the anti-vax community, they have been at this for years, skirting bans and making themselves look as presentable as possible.

They know the rules better than anybody else. They know the rules better than the people applying the rules at Facebook. That`s why, with most normal people, they have to change -- like, last week, we reported on a bunch of groups that changed their name from anti-vaccine groups to dance party and change the name vaccine to dance when they -- when they`re talking about it on Facebook to skirt, those bans.

People who`ve been in the anti-vaccine community have been up to this for decades. When COVID came along, that was a godsend to them. That was -- that was the best thing that could happen to them, because it gave them a thing that everyone had to confront. Everyone had to get a vaccine or not. It was a decision for every single person.

So, when all of that happened, we were all locked down, people were locked down reading Instagram, reading YouTube, and they got a much larger audience than they have ever had before.

CROSS: I think that`s part of the problem, right? A lot of these social media campaigns have democratized who`s a reputable voice, and someone can call themselves a journalist, but that doesn`t necessarily mean they are, and they present that way, which is quite scary.

I`m curious, for you, Mr. Mayor, when folks in your community consume news, when -- are they looking at the local news? Are they reading national papers? Where -- like, who are the trusted resources, other than community members, where folks are getting their information from about COVID?

MAYOR ADRIAN PERKINS (D), SHREVEPORT, LA: You know, honestly, I have to commend our local news stations here for doing a pretty good job of not spreading misinformation. There are a few radio stations that has dabbled with it, but primarily, it`s from social media. We`re getting bombarded on all social media platforms, that misinformation and it tumbles out of control and it plays out in the rooms that we were in.

Just last week, we were at a city council meeting and we had a citizen stand up and talk -- use her three minutes at city council to just spread all misinformation. And, luckily, we had Dr. White who is over this region for the Louisiana Department of Health, and the audience to stand up afterwards and correct a lot of the misinformation she put out.

It`s primarily coming from social media platforms but it`s having a damaging impact, nonetheless.

CROSS: A fatally damaging impact.

And for the folks watching at home, please share responsibly. If you have questions about something, go to the CDC website as a trusted medical physician, your doctor, because what you see on social media is not always accurate.

So, thank you, both. Thank you, Shreveport Mayor Adrian Perkins and Ben Collins for adding some truth to this conversation.

And still ahead, we honor the life of Bob Moses, a pioneer of the civil rights movement. This happens as Republicans systematically try to undo his legacy.

THE REIDOUT continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:45:33]

CROSS: As you guys have seen, Democratic activists are raising the alarm about the impact of a raft of voter suppression laws on future elections in battleground states and really everywhere.

The CEO of the Stacey Abram founded New Georgia Project told "Politico" that if there isn`t a way for us to not repeat what happened in November 2020, we`re -- the F word. So, Republican controlled states are passing laws make day on voting, early voting, and absentee voting harder. In my neck of the woods, Georgia Republican lawmakers can now intervene in local elections if they don`t like the results.

"The Atlanta Journal Constitution is reporting that Republican legislators have already started building the case against Fulton County election officials. Now, the goal, of course, is stripping them of their duties and future elections. Why? Because Fulton county has a large number of black, brown and Asian-American voters.

Fighting that kind of voter suppression was a major part of Bob Moses` life. Moses died Sunday at the age of 86.

In 1960, Moses left his job as a high schoolteacher at a private school in the Bronx to help organize poor, illiterate and rural black Americans in Mississippi. He later became the Mississippi field director of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee or SNICC, as you guys know.

His work, registering voters in the South, was central to the 1964 Freedom Summer.

Sadly, today`s voter activists are still having to fight the same fight.

For more, I`m joined by none other than Reverend Al Sharpton, my big brother, president of the National Action Network and host of "POLITICS NATION" on MSNBC.

Rev, I`m so happy to have you with me tonight. And I couldn`t think of any better to have this conversation with.

You`ve been fighting this fight for decades. You`ve been in this battle for a long time. So I recognize that we don`t have the right to feel tired. But for those of us who do feel tired, what are your words and thoughts on this entire situation tonight?

REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST, "POLITICS NATION": My words are if we`re tired, we have to fight even through our weariness. When you look at Bob Moses, John Lewis and others that fought despite being weary, they were able to change this society and transform the body politics to the degree that we were able to secure a black president, 60 blacks in Congress today, that are now under existential threat, the whole democracy under threat.

And that is why we`re mobilizing all over the country. We`re having a national march on voting rights on August 28th. The 66th anniversary of Emmett Till`s death, the 50th anniversary of "I Have a Dream" speech by Dr. King, Martin Luther King III, Andrea King, myself and others working with the SEIU for that march.

In Wednesday, we are going to the Hill and meet with some of the senators, Senator Graham and Senator Manchin as well as Speaker Pelosi. And we`re going to the Martin Luther King Monument with some of those Texas legislators who were in Washington because they want to make sure Texas doesn`t get a quorum to continue these battles that they`re waging to suppress our vote.

So we can`t stop. We must, in many ways, pick up that baton and keep fighting. Yes, we`re tired. But as Fannie Lou Hamer said, "I`m sick and tired of being sick and tired, so I`m going to keep fighting."

CROSS: Absolutely. And, look, let me -- let me just give our viewers some background on what Bob Moses went through as a voting rights activist.

When he was organizing in Mississippi, a sheriff`s cousin bashed him in the head with a knife handle. But bleeding, this man kept going, staggering up the steps of a courthouse to continue to register black voters. He was riding in a car with someone and the Klan shot through the window. He had to cradle the driver while the car was still moving just to get it on the right road.

So, Rev, I have to ask you, when we see violence like that, and then we see in some of these red states that they`re giving partisan poll watchers increased power in open carry states, could we see this level of violence again? One.

And two, do you think senators Manchin and Sinema and the White House who thinks black voters can just out-organize this kind of voter suppression, do you think they realize that is the fear we carry with us, that is the strength we carry with us and that is the passion we use to fight these kind of -- these draconian tactics?

[19:50:07]

SHARPTON: Well, I don`t know what they realized, but I know what we realized and that is that we must have that passion, we must have that determination.

Do I -- am I concerned about violence could happen against us? Yes, some of us that had violence. I have been in -- in marches where I was stabbed.

CROSS: That`s right.

SHARPTON: But we kept going. And I think that, what we must do is, we must glean, from those that laid the path like Bob Moses that suffered violence. One of the great honors of having "POLITICS NATION" here on MSNBC was Bob Moses came on the show, and talked about some of that as well as his algebra project.

And knowing John Lewis and having him on, and talking and marching with him. We, in many ways, make mockery of their sacrifice if we let these new Jim Crow-type laws going to effect to many ways, suppress and eliminate our vote and not only our vote. It is a threat to democracy, period.

Everyone watching us is under threat. If they can get away with it in majority black and brown districts, they will do it to anyone that opposes their draconian attempts to reverse democratic process in this country.

CROSS: Absolutely. I mean, that`s the thing I think people have to realize. Voting rights is just the first step. Then, comes the policy ran through. This is when they revoke abortion rights. They roll back some of the criminal justice reforms that we have seen. So, it`s very scary.

You talked about Emmett Till. And I just -- he would have turned 80 this weekend and just to put in context, President Joe Biden is 79. So this shows that this history was not that distant.

You know, grown men snatched this teenaged boy out of his house and beat him, mutilated him, shot him in the head, and threw him in a river. And it`s almost hard to believe, except when you think about Tamir Rice and Trayvon Martin and Ronald Greene and Daunte Wright and Stephon Clark and on and on and on we could go.

The one thing I found interesting, Rev, is that the woman who made these accusations, Carolyn Bryant Dunham, admitted later that she lied.

So, when you still think about the birdwatcher, Amy Cooper, the Victoria`s Secret Karen -- you know, seeing this, what is your thought on how we navigate this history that keeps repeating itself?

SHARPTON: We must keep bringing it up. We must raise it up. Mamie Till Mobley, the mother of Emmett Till, opened his casket so the world would see what they did to her son and that energized a civil rights movement in the `50s. I was just 1 years old when it happened but I grew up hearing from my mother, the story of Emmett Till. I wasn`t old enough to protest but I was old enough, by the time we got to Howard Beach and, certainly, old enough when we got to Trayvon Martin and some of the things that I have been involved in, including George Floyd.

So, we`ve seen a litany of pain but we have had power, over pain. We`re survivors and that is why we`re going to make sure we secure our voting rights. So we put people in power, that will take care of upholding the principles of what is right and righteous.

CROSS: Well, Reverend Sharpton, you don`t get thanked enough for the work that you do for the community and certainly, I thank you for everything you have done for me. So thank you so much for sharing the screen with me, tonight.

And don`t go anywhere, at home, because up next, intensifying wildfires across the western states are taking us into unchartered territory, as thousands of homes and businesses literally go up in smoke. And you know what? There`s no end in sight.

You don`t want to miss this special report we have. We`ll be right back.

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[19:57:45]

CROSS: Okay. A massive heat wave has descended upon the United States with nearly 30 million people likely to see temperatures reach or exceed 100 degrees by the end of the week. Now, temperatures are expected to help fuel western wildfires. And experts warn that the weather pattern will send dangerous ribbons of smoke, as far as the East Coast and of the Mid- Atlantic States. I saw it on my own neck of the woods right here in D.C.

Joining me from Salt Lake City with more is NBC News correspondent, Cal Perry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAL PERRY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Tiffany, this is the second year, in a row, that the American West has seen historic-fire conditions. We are talking about 88 fires in 13 states, some 20,000 firefighters trying to suppress the situation.

But the reality is these are now climate fires. It is almost year-round. They are moving and acting differently. Firefighters are telling us they don`t usually see these conditions until September and October, which is frightening. 1.3 million acres burned, so far, this season. And it is kicking up smoke and bad air, all over the United States.

You can see here, on this map -- this is a map that the CDC puts together - - how far that smoke is reaching today, into the United States. Heavy smoke as far to the east as St. Louis, reaching Washington and New York. We saw this last week.

It is a concern from a health perspective. The CDC and doctors are growing more and more concerned.

I had a chance to speak to an air-quality expert a short time ago. Take a listen.

DR. KERRY KELLY, UNIVERSITY OF UTAH: You can see increased incidence of hospital admissions sort of all cause. You can see increased death rates for all causes. You can see asthma exacerbations. You can also see increase use in asthma medications.

And then, when you put it all together, wildfire smoke is responsible for billions of dollars in increased healthcare cost.

PERRY: If you look at some of the cities that are worse off today, you`ll see an air quality rating in the 400s. That is four times what the federal government says is a healthy level and this unfortunately, and we have had this conversation before, is the new reality when it comes to climate.

Climate scientists will tell us this, unfortunately, is as good as it`s going to get. These fires are going to be year round. The temperatures are only going to rise.

Last June in America was the hottest June ever recorded.

So that is the concern. That the air quality is only going to get worse. People really when they check the weather report need to start looking at that air quality because it could dictate whether or not you can go outside -- Tiffany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROSS: Thank you, Cal, and please, be safe.

And that`s THE REIDOUT for tonight.

And "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.