IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

Transcript: The ReidOut, 7/19/21

Guests: Stacey Abrams, Glenn Kirschner, Uche Blackstone, Tim Miller, Liz Theoharis


Senate Rules Committee holds rare field hearing on voting. Senator Klobuchar and Stacey Abrams hold voting roundtable. Activists step up fight for voting rights. Senator Sinema calls the late John Lewis her hero despite blocking voting rights bill. Trump supporters protest 1/6 arrests. Corporate overlords over at Fox News have mandated vaccines for all of their employees who want to come to work. Today, a far more diverse group of women marched from the Supreme Court to the United States Capitol to demand an end to the filibuster, passage of the For the People Act, a restoration of the Voting Rights Act, and an increase in the federal- minimum wage, to $15 an hour.



And also you can always find me online @arimelber or arimelber.COM on social media. Indeed, we will be sending out that piece on our socials tomorrow as well in addition to our regular BEAT broadcast.

"THE REIDOUT" with Joy Reid starts now. Hi, Joy.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: How are you doing, Ari? And happy 25th birthday to MSNBC.

MELBER: And to you.

REID: Cheers. Thank you very much. All right good evening everyone. We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with good trouble in the fight against voter suppression. Just days after the one-year anniversary of the death of the late, great John Lewis, a civil rights icon who spent his entire life fighting for human and civil rights, beaten as a young man marching for the rights of black Americans across the south and across the country to vote and have that vote counted.

Now, Lewis`s home state, Georgia, is at the epicenter of the Republican assault on voting rights, home to one of the nation`s most draconian voter suppression laws, implemented after black and brown voters in Georgia gave Joe Biden the presidency and Democrats control of the United States Senate.

A lot of people were hailing Lewis on this anniversary including Arizona Conservative Democratic Senator Kyrsten Sinema, who got quite a bit of blowback for calling Lewis her dear friend and, quote, personal hero, since Sinema and West Virginia`s Joe Manchin stands in opposition to ending the legislative filibuster, guaranteeing that voting rights legislation will fail in the face of Republican obstruction.

Meanwhile, other Democrats were making good trouble in Atlanta today. For the first time in 20 years, the Senate Rules Committee held a field hearing, starting with impassioned remarks from Georgia Senator, the Reverend Raphael Warnock, John Lewis` pastor at Ebenezer Baptist Church.


SEN. REV. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Sadly, what we`re seeing in Georgia is an attempt to deny certain people the ability to have their voices heard in our democracy. As I have said time and time again, some people don`t want some people to vote.

Congress must take action on voting rights. And we have no time to spare. There is nothing more important for us to do this Congress.

We Americans live in a great house that democracy built. And right now, that house is on fire.

REID: Not a single Republican senator participated in today`s field hearing. Minority Leader McConnell poked his head out of his shell long enough, however, to call the proceeding a, quote, silly stunt. On Sunday, Rules Committee Chair Woman Amy Klobuchar held a round table with Stacey Abrams, hearing from voters about obstacles to the ballot.

Speaking to NBC`s Garrett Haake before today`s hearing, Klobuchar took aim at Republicans` ongoing complicity with the big lie.


SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): I believe this is an even a bigger deal than just party versus party. This is literally a quest to save our democracy. Because once you start disenfranchising people, then people lose faith.


REID: For her part, Stacey Abrams` voting rights organization, Fair Fight Action, is launching version 2.0 of its hot call summer campaign, asking supporters to call their senators every day until they take action to pass the For the People Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Restoration Act.

And joining me now is Stacey Abrams, founder of Fair Fight Action and Author of Our Time is Now, which is available now in Paperback. And, Stacey, it is always great to talk with you.

Let`s talk about what the field hearing that took place today means in practical terms.

STACEY ABRAMS, FOUNDER, FAIR FIGHT ACTION: Well, first and foremost it is an opportunity to once again set the record straight. There has been an attempt by opponents of S-1 to be, you know, either intentionally reductive or intentionally obtuse. This is not a question of a simple change to the law. This is about a series of laws being passed across the country starting in Georgia to reduce access to the right to vote for inconvenient voters, voters of color, young people, disabled voters, elderly voters, poor voters, but largely targeting communities of color that outperformed in the 2020 and 2021 run-offs here in Georgia.

REID: And, you know, everyone seems to understand that, we think, in the Democratic Party, which is the party that, you know, that is the preferred choice of the majority of voters of color. And yet, despite the fact that you have fellow Democratic senators in Georgia doing a field hearing today, you know, Kyrsten Sinema is tweeting about how much she loves and respects John Lewis.

I mean, I will echo, Michael Harriot, who said, it is a funny way of showing that he is your hero by not reflecting any of the things that he believes in. And Bishop Barber said the same thing, called it shameful to claim you honor John Lewis while you block the work that he`s trying to do. And Harriot also pointed out it was difficult to find in Googling Ms. Sinema`s background any note of her having revered John Lewis.

What do you make of the Democrats who love to quote John Lewis, the way people quote Dr. King but are literally doing absolutely nothing because S- 1 ain`t going pass as long as Sinema and Manchin refuse to change the filibuster?

ABRAMS: Well, I think that we have to recognize there are two layers to this challenge.


The first layer and the successful layer was getting 50 Democratic senators on the record supporting a version of the For the People Act that can affect these laws and can save tour democracy. The second step then is what do we do mechanically to make it happen. I believe that the first step is either a carve-out to the filibuster or a reduction in the threshold or returning it to its original form, which is the talking filibuster.

And so I do call on every single senator, both those who have declared out loud that they oppose the -- that they want to support the filibuster and those who are being quiet about it, that this is a time for action, that, yes, we appreciate your reverence for and your respect for John Lewis and the work of saving democracy, but now is the urgent time for action.

What happened in Texas, what is happening right now, what will happen in Ohio, what will happen in North Carolina, what will happen in Pennsylvania is not endemic to the south. It is endemic to authoritarians who do not want to see inconvenient voters cast their ballots and speak their minds. And that has to be the call to arms.

This is not simply about one moment. This is about the foundations of our democracy, and they are in peril. And it is time now for every single member of the U.S. Senate, Democrats and Republicans and Independents, to declare their allegiance to our democracy as opposed to their parties.

REID: And thank you for pointing that out. The only difference between the south -- in the south is that it is where half of African-Americans are and where there are big concentrations of black voters and it is controlled by Republicans for the most part.

For people who want to participate in hot call summer, I had this question asked to me a lot. I think it is really important to do it. Explain to them, because the John Lewis act and the S-1 are very different things. Can you just sort of layout for us what are the differences? What should people understand about how these two bills are different?

ABRAMS: First of all, we want to thank the 40,000 calls that were made during the first phase of hot call summer and we encourage folks to dial again, 888-453-3211. But here is the difference. The John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act is designed to say that for new bills that would be proposed after its passage, those bills cannot take effect without being pre-cleared by the Justice Department if you are in one of the states that`s covered by the Voting Rights Advancement Act. That`s an important piece.

But before we get there, we have to undo all of the bad that`s already been done. So the Voting Rights Advancement Act will stop new bad from happening once it passes, but we still have to clean up all of the terrible bills, the 28 bills that have already passed and any that pass in the interim, and that`s what the For The People Act does. It says that no matter where you live in the United States, you live in Georgia, which has good laws but terribly rules and has now new laws that negate the effectiveness of our good rules, or you live in a state that`s been allowed to suppress your vote for years, that we all have a level playing field.

So we want the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act to stop new bad, but we have to clean up the old bad, we have to clean up the current attack on our votes by making certain we pass the For the People Act, and that means hot call summer, that means calling every U.S. senator, no matter their party, because they work for you and they need to hear from you.

REID: That is so important.

ABRAMS: 888-453-3211.

REID: Thank you. I didn`t mean the phone. I will let you give the phone number again before we go, because it is the key thing, is that people need to understand that these are two very separate things, but that John Lewis` is sort of retroactive, it`s sort of -- or its proactive for the future.

But it wouldn`t actually -- because there does feel like, and I don`t know if maybe this is just my perception, that there is a bit of a bait-and- switch-ish kind of thing going on for a lot of Democrats they`re worried that Democrats are going to go ahead and use, you know, the sort of simple 50 votes to push through things that are long held desires of Democrats, which are all good things, you know, passing things like the child tax credit and infrastructure that gives child care and changing Medicare, and doing all of these really great things that are going to help a lot of people. But that in the meantime, they`re just going to give the promise of a future John Lewis Act as the thing they do for voting rights and leave S- 1 behind.

Are you concerned that in the whole bargain that`s happening in Washington the John Lewis Act gets to be a future thing that they`ll do down the road maybe, you know, if Manchin will let them, but that S-1, which is the bill, as you said, that actually fixes the bad laws gets left on the table?

ABRAMS: Well, I think it is important to recognize that the first 300 pages of the For the People Act were written by John Lewis. And so the fact that his name is not attached as the title does not diminish his work on the bill. And we also have to remember that the For the People Act is a very large act, and there are going to be pieces that may be married to the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act in conversation, but we have got to remember the two separate purposes. And I think it is remembering that and calling that out and calling attention to it.

Because the fundamental challenge is that we have to have a U.S. Senate that recognizes that nothing else passed will hold and nothing new will happen if we lose the right to participate in our elections in `22 and `24, because that path we`re on (INAUDIBLE).


This is not hyperbolic, this is an actual crisis. And we have seen precursors of this in 2018 here in Georgia and around the country, we saw it in 2016 and we will see it on steroids in 2022 if we do not act.

REID: The Texas Democrats who are in Washington D.C., some whom have actually contracted COVID while they were -- for their trouble, that fight, that sort of demonstrating the will to fight, is that significant, in your view, the activism that we are seeing people are in the streets? I mean, this is going to be a summer of activism around voting very clearly from lots of different groups. In the end, do you think that winds up moving votes and getting the 50 or, if not, what is the point of it? What is the purpose in the end?

ABRAMS: The purpose of activism, the purpose of protest is to signal to leaders the demands of the people for action. And so it is absolutely essential, especially when it is the leaders who are taking that step. Going from Texas to D.C. was not purely symbolic. It was an active declaration that they need help, that we need help. The same help has to come from average citizens, making those phone calls, from young people who transformed our elections. Regardless of their race, those young people changed the outcome of the future in the United States by participating in record rates, and they are also under attack.

And so we have to remember that this call to action this summer, this hot call summer is about making sure that this conversation about democracy doesn`t get pushed aside as rhetorical. We have to see it as an urgent call to action, as urgent as anything we have ever seen. Because if you want to see action on police brutality, on climate change, on poverty, on women`s reproductive choice, no matter your issue is, if you don`t have the right to vote and participate in elections, it is irrelevant.

REID: Amen. One more time for the people in the back, if you guys care about all of the other things, police reform, everything else you care about, if you -- if they lock you out of the voting booth, you get none of it. Just understand that. It is the most important right. That`s what John Lewis fought and bled for it. Stacey Abrams, you are the best. Thank you very much. Really appreciate everything that you are doing for this country and our democracy.

All right, up next on THE REIDOUT, the first felony sentencing on the January 6th attack on our Capitol and what it could mean for the other insurrectionists. Stay right there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joy, congratulations on the one-year anniversary of your show. You are a truth teller and a voice for freedom, racial and social justice, and I`m looking forward to joining you on THE REIDOUT soon and watching more of those lovely Lislie Jones/Joy Reid hype videos.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is up? Joy, Joy, Joy, Joy down in my heart, yes, one year anniversary. Happy anniversary, Joy. I love you. I love your show.




REID: The hundreds of insurrection cases, which are still making their way to the courts, have provided some key insights into the kind of people that made up Trump`s MAGA army on January 6th. While all of those suffered from the mass delusion that is the big lie, some of them still seem to have some trouble telling fact from fiction.

For instance, defendant Landon Copeland who told the judge in his case last month, quote, you`re a robot to me. You can`t come get me if I don`t want you to. Another defendant, Pauline Bauers, is claiming she is a sovereign citizen and therefore not subject to United States laws. She represented herself in court today and repeatedly interrupted the judge presiding over her case, but her latest court filing tells you everything you need to know.

Here is an excerpt, quote, now this, I, me, Pauline Bauer, the living sole as one of we the people hereby motion the court to drop all charges against my vessel, Pauline Bauer, and dismiss the case. I did not make that up. That`s a direct quote.

Yet, as we`ve seen Donald Trump is holding these people up as model citizens, even patriots, in fact, about 100 of his supporters gathered for a demonstration outside the D.C. jail Saturday to protest the arrest and detention of the accused insurrections who they say should be set free.


REPORTER: What are you out here protesting today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The injustice of the political prisoners of Joe Biden. We`re here to help free the D.C. POB, Prisoners of Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole bunch of those people are guilty as what I -- phony legal term, aggravated to tourism.

REPORTER: Was the insurrection real?


REPORTER: It wasn`t real?



REID: Aggravated tourism law, where you defecate all over the walls. Perfect.

Meanwhile, defendant Paul Hodgkins became the first Capitol insurrectionist to sentence of felony charges today. After pleading guilty to one count of obstructing and official proceeding, he received eight months in prison, far short of the 18 months have prosecutors have sought.

Joining me now is Scott Macfarlane, NBC 4 Washington Investigative reporter, and Glenn Kirschner, former Federal Prosecutor and an MSNBC Columnist.

And, Scott, I want o start with you. Give us the sort of read out from inside that court room. Because I think for a lot of people, eight months seems like a light sentence. What did the judge say? What was the sort of explanation for what kind of sentence he received?

SCOTT MACFARLANE, NBC 4 WASHINGTON INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, the judge was ramping up, Joy, towards the sentencing, saying that what Hodgkins was part of January 6th was quite serious, forcing the evacuation of Congress from the Capitol. And the prosecutors pulled out this big bazooka saying that Hodgkins was part of a domestic terror incident.

It was clear the judge was going to sentence Hodgkins to some prison time, but there he is going ten months below what the federal prosecutors recommended.

And the question is, Joy, what message does that send to the other defendants? That it is wise for them to step forward, say you`re sorry, plead guilty and seek leniency, or does it show that if you challenge the prosecutors, sometimes the judge does not go along with what the prosecutors want?


REID: It is stunning to me, Glenn, in a country where Hervis Rogers, a 60 something-year-old man, is facing decades behind bars for voting a couple of months before his parole ran out, decades, like 20-something years in prison, while this person, who participated in attacking our Capitol, in which the lynch mob shouted -- chanted "Hang Mike Pence" and brought a noose to do it with, somebody who participated in attacking our government gets eight months in prison?


GLENN KIRSCHNER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, Joy, there are some pros and some cons regarding the way the Hodgkins case finished up.

The one pro is that he pleaded guilty to obstructing a congressional proceeding, and that proceeding was the certification of the results of the presidential election. Why that`s so important is because this defendant did precisely what Donald Trump told him to do at Donald Trump`s pep rally.

He said, go down to the Capitol and stop -- Donald Trump used the word steel, but he was signaling stop the certification of the election, because there was no steal going on in the Capitol. This defendant now, Hodgkins, will now go to prison for doing precisely what Donald Trump told him to do.

But there`s a significant con here. The significant con is that the lowest guideline sentence this insurrectionist should have received was 15 months; 15 to 21 months is what the federal guidelines said is the appropriate sentencing range. This judge inexplicably went seven months lower, even though this is about as upsetting an obstruction of a congressional proceeding as we have ever seen.

That, I predict, will inspire 500-plus other insurrectionists to say, maybe I should take my chances. Maybe I shouldn`t plead guilty. Maybe I shouldn`t cooperate and assist the prosecutors in going after other insurrectionists.

Look at how lenient this judge just was on defendant Hodgkins. This sends the wrong message, in my estimation.

REID: I feel like the message that`s being sent overall, to come back to you, Scott, is odd for a country that just experienced an American version of the beer market putsch.

And you`re now seeing this sort of what seems to me like a quite light sentence. We have, of the -- apparently, now House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has picked his members of the January 6 commission.

And of the five people, one, two, three, four, five people that he`s put forward, three of them, three of them, Jim Banks, who`s going to be the ranking member, Jim Jordan of Ohio, and a freshman named representative Troy Nehls, all voted to not certify the election, meaning they voted for the insurrection.

They are insurrectionists. And they`re on the committee. I wonder if -- what is the mood sort of among those on Capitol Hill looking at these sentences, and just in terms of your reporting, because it does feel like leniency is sort of going all around.

MACFARLANE: Well, we`re not surprised to see Congressman Davis, who is the top Republican on the House Administration Committee, or Congressman Jordan, who also chairs a relevant committee, be part of this to be the Republican selections. They have some type of jurisdiction here.

But I have talked to several members of Congress today who were asking me questions about the Hodgkins sentencing. And a couple things stood out. They asked me, what struck you most about what Mr. Hodgkins said in court?

A couple things. First of all, he made clear what he did was foolish, that it wasn`t a politician`s fault, that it was his fault. But then, Joy, he made explicit in his words that Joseph R. Biden Jr. is the rightful president of the United States. He felt empowered or he felt it relevant to say that.

I`m not sure what message that sends the other defendants. Will there be a queue of other defendants who have to say just that in seeking leniency? It`s just a strange time.

REID: Yes.

MACFARLANE: But that`s reality.

REID: If you were a prosecutor in this case, Glenn, would you feel like this was in a sense a failure in terms of the prosecution?

Because it -- to me, it is not sending a super strong message, as you sort of explained before, the book not being thrown at somebody who was a part of an insurrection. And now the question becomes, if you`re prosecuting the next guy that`s coming down, it almost is like everyone should just plead out. They`re -- you`re only going to get six, seven months. What`s the big deal?

KIRSCHNER: You know, Joy, I don`t always want to just leap to the defense of prosecutors, my colleagues, my friends at the U.S. attorney`s office.

I don`t see this, however, as a failure of the prosecutors, because they pleaded him guilty to the most appropriate building block charge that they will now be able to use to work their way up the criminal ladder to the funders, the organizers, and the inciters.

And most importantly, Joy, they were banking on the federal sentencing guidelines of 15 to 21 months. And they requested, very reasonably and appropriately, that Hodgkins go to prison for a year-and-a-half. They were banking on the very system that the judges ordinarily use to impose sentence.


And when this judge, Judge Moss, went well below the lowest end of the guideline range, I think that was a shock to prosecutors.

REID: Yes.

KIRSCHNER: I don`t see this as a prosecutorial failure. I see it as a bit of a failure on the judge`s part.

REID: I think a lot of people who are watching this are going to agree with you on that.

Scott MacFarlane, thank you very much. Keep us updated on the next cases. And, Glenn Kirschner, always appreciate you as well.

And up next: How can you trust a news network that deliberately puts the lives of its own viewers at risk? Tonight, the absolute worst is straight ahead.


JONATHAN CAPEHART, HOST,"THE SUNDAY SHOW": Congratulations on one hell of a year. And I look forward to many more years of your passion and your truth-telling, as you try to save the republic one fiery segment at a time.

NICOLLE WALLACE, HOST,"DEADLINE: WHITE HOUSE": My forever memory of your brilliant and contagious talent will be your shuffle from the set of THE REIDOUT to the Maddow-helmed, socially distanced anchor desk for the debates and the conventions and other big nights.

How I enjoy watching you weave your reporting and your blunt analysis into bursts of brilliance from just a few feet away.

TIFFANY CROSS, HOST,"THE CROSS CONNECTION": I just don`t know where my life would be without you in it. I don`t know where the viewers would be without you informing us. You have more than earned your seat at the prime- time table, my friend.

Happy anniversary, Joy. I love you more than words can say.




REID: We spend a lot of time putting our health and even our lives into other people`s hands. It`s a matter of trust.

We trust that those handling our food are washing their hands. We trust that airline pilots know what they`re doing and they aren`t high or drunk. Trust is a big part of how our economy works. In fact, it might be the key to making capitalism function.

But what happens when we can no longer trust the people we need to in order to do commerce?

Enter Mary Mallon, a professional cook who was born in Ireland in 1869. Mary emigrated to the U.S. and then found her way into the kitchens of New York`s affluent families, including that of Charles Henry Warren, a New York banker who rented an Oyster Bay on the North Coast of Long Island for the summer.

One summer, people in the Warren household contracted typhoid fever. Now, this was a cause for alarm. Typhoid was associated with poor, unsanitary conditions, not the rich and famous playground of Oyster Bay, home to Theodore Roosevelt`s Summer White House.

George Soper, a sanitary engineer, was hired to investigate and discovered the cause. It wasn`t the area`s freshwater clams, as he first thought. It was Mary Mallon, the cook who had worked for the wealthy Warren family weeks before the outbreak.

He also found that seven families that she had cooked for had reported cases of typhoid fever as well, which had resulted in the infection of 22 people and the death of one girl.

Mary Mallon would soon be known as the first asymptomatic carrier of the typhoid infection ever recorded, a carrier so deadly, in part due to a failure to properly wash her hands after going to the bathroom -- yuck -- but also because, despite being warned that she could be the carrier, she just kept right on cooking for other people.

In 1907, about 3,000 New Yorkers had been infected by salmonella typhi, with Mary seen as the main reason for the outbreak. Immunization and antibiotic treatment were not yet available, so it was Mr. Soper, that investigator, who convinced the New York Department of Health to take action. Either Mary had to stop cooking or try an experimental treatment to remove her gallbladder.

Otherwise, she would have to be detained and isolated. Mary refused, even filing a lawsuit insisting she was never sick. And that stubbornness is what turned Mary Mallon in the popular culture into the villain known as Typhoid Mary.

It wasn`t her illness that brought on her denunciation and the raw hatred that rained down upon her, from mean cartoons and furious op-eds. It was her stubborn refusal to take any action whatsoever to stop making people sick.

Eventually, Mary was transferred to Riverside Hospital in North Brother Island, where she was quarantined in this cottage. She would ultimately spend 26 years basically locked up. She was briefly released with a promise not to go back to cooking for rich families, but did so anyway under an assumed name, contaminating at least 25 doctors, nurses and staff at Sloan Maternity Hospital in Manhattan, two of whom died.

Mary Mallon died in 1938, after decades of forced lockdown. As the first known case of a healthy carrier in the United States, she was thought to be responsible for the contamination of at least 122 people, including five who died.

And while there are huge ethical questions about the way that Typhoid Mary was treated by the state of New York -- I mean, forced confinement -- gah - - the idea that someone would deliberately risk other people`s lives before we had workable vaccines remains a chilling prospect, #washyourhands.

Typhoid Mary left behind a trail of death, but also scandal. Her ignorance or selfishness, whatever it was that allowed her to dismiss her threat to public safety, we`re seeing a lot of that today, people who are refusing to take the simple action of getting a free vaccine or just wear masks to keep from sickening or even killing people with COVID.

And so the people who are casting doubt and spreading mistruths by acting like modern day Typhoid Marys -- I`m looking at you, Tuckums, and FOX News -- are tonight`s absolute worst.

And we will talk more about that next.



Congratulations on your first year of your show. You`re doing a great job. We need you. You`re just doing a wonderful, wonderful job. Lots of love.


REID: Oh, my God.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s nothing better than seeing your face every day. So, let`s do it again and again and again for 50 years and more. I dare you.

Love you, girl.

ROB REINER, DIRECTOR: I have three things to say to you.

First, congratulations on the one year anniversary of THE REIDOUT. Second, I love you. And, third, keep pounding away at voting rights. And I love you.


I know that`s four, but I feel like I love you deserves a second mention.



REID: Dr. Francis Collins, the director of the National Institutes of Health, tells "The Washington Post" that America is in the midst of not one, but two pandemics, or epidemics, a biological epidemic caused by a terrible virus, and the other is an epidemic of misinformation.

On Friday, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, warned that this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated. It should come as no surprise that many COVID cases are people who watch FOX News hosts and who downplayed the pandemic.

According to Media Matters, between June 28 and July 11, FOX personalities and guests made a total of 216 claims undermining or downplaying vaccines.

Here`s just a taste of the steady and unrelenting stream of lies.


BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX NEWS: Listen, if you didn`t get a vaccination, that`s your choice. And if you did, like I did and they did and maybe you did, then you should not wear a mask. And if you did and you want to go cliff diving this weekend, you don`t have to check with me.

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS HOST: Ninety-nine percent of the people who are dying from COVID are unvaccinated.

KILMEADE: That`s their choice.

LARA TRUMP, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: This has never, Sean, been about following the science. It has never been about following the facts and truth. It`s been about control from day one.

DR. PETER MCCULLOUGH, CARDIOLOGIST: There`s no right now, no clinical reason to go get vaccinated.


REID: Wow. Their current argument is literally people should have the right to kill themselves, just to own the libs? Thoughtful watching.

But here`s a nasty little secret: the corporate overlords over at Fox News have mandated vaccines for all of their employees who want to come to work. They`ve mandated vaccines for those who want to work there, and they`ve implemented even their own vaccine passport of sorts.

All of this makes you wonder what the political advantages of killing off supporters of Fox News, the GQP, and other right wing outlets.

Joining me now is Dr. Uche Blackstock, founder and CEO of Advancing Health Equity, and Tim Miller, writer at large for "The Bulwark."

And, Dr. Blackstock, I have to say I tweeted it this weekend and I will say it again, you know, for -- let`s compartmentalize the Republicans for just a moment. I have a lot of friends who have got, you know, black cousins and uncles and friends who are also refusing to get vaccinated and who believe all of the conspiracy theories, that they will turn into a magnet, that they will become infertile, they believe all of it.

And I tweeted this weekend, these people would never believe anything else these MAGA people said. These MAGA people don`t want you to vote, they don`t want you to learn your history, they want to erase you from the history books and say slavery was like a picnic.

But when they tell you, you know, the people who think there`s chicken poop ballot -- you know, hidden -- ballots hidden in the chicken poop tell you that you are going to believe in a manage net, why do you suddenly believe them? Can you get to the bottom of why people of color are listening to these lies?

DR. UCHE BLACKSTOCK, ADVANCING HEALTH EQUITY FOUNDER & CEO: Yeah. Well, thank you, Joy. I did see that tweet.

You know, what I would say is that people who have not been vaccinated, as you mentioned, have multiple reasons. It is safety issues, they`re concerned about fertility. They`re concerned about cost. There are still access issues they`re concerned about.

But I think that they`re traumatized. I think people of color, black people in particular, in this country have been traumatized by racism. I think even when you present us with facts, the clinical data from the trials saying that these vaccines are safe and effective, you know, these institutions have not been trustworthy towards us. So we have no reason to trust them.

Add on the misinformation that is specifically being directed towards our communities, and it is being done so in a very insidious way. It is being characterized even as medical racism.

So it is very hard for people to even distinguish that from actual facts. I think that`s a problem we are seeing. Black communities, communities of color are specifically being targeted these days.

REID: And they`re being targeted in a lot of ways on Facebook, the same way, Tim Miller. It`s -- there`s a Venn diagram between the three groups of people aggressively targeted, particularly using Facebook, to dissuade them from taking vaccines and the people who are targeted in the last two presidential elections. It`s the same three groups of people and the same sort of conspiracy hell hole of Russian-aided disinformation.

But let`s take the pinhole out of Republicans for a moment. There`s a couple of pieces of data. There`s a YouGov/Economist poll that shows among unvaccinated people, 90 percent reject the vaccine for fear of side effects, 16 percent believe the spread of COVID occurs among the unvaccinated. One in five believe the U.S. government is using vaccines to microchip the population.

Another one, Gallup shows among Republicans, the faith in science itself has plummeted from 72 percent back in 1975 to just 45 percent now -- on the Republican side.

Is it a matter of disinformation or is it a matter of pure politics?

TIM MILLER, WRITER-AT-LARGE, THE BULWARK: Look, I think a little bit of both, joy. I mean David Frum was on "The Bulwark" podcast this morning, and he gave a, I think, comparison that was really illustrative. He`s up there in Canada. They get Facebook in Canada, too.

REID: Uh-huh.

MILLER: You know, misinformation doesn`t stop at the border, right? But Canada, who started vaccinating much after us because, you know, the companies there didn`t do what Pfizer, the companies here did obviously, so the U.S. got a head start. Canada has gone from behind us to ahead of us in percent of the population vaccinated. Some of that is what you and the doctor were talking about, about marginalized communities and disinformation. Of course, obviously, a higher Black and Latino population here than in Canada.

But a big part of that is these voters you are talking about, the 20 percent that think there`s a microchip in the data, those voters are targeted specifically by Donald Trump, by Fox News and Newsmax and OAN. That is a unique-to-America problem.


REID: Yeah.

MILLER: That they don`t have that in Canada. There`s no Fox News in Canada, right.

REID: Can I ask you, Tim --

MILLER: They have conservative politicians, right?

REID: They do.

MILLER: So, that is the difference.

REID: Can I ask you this from your point of view as a conservative? What is in it for Fox to kill their own viewers? What would they get out of killing their own people? I don`t get it.

MILLER: This is bottom-up, Joy. It is a ratings thing. At the very start, Fox didn`t like Trump either. It is what the people watching demanded, right? And so, if you are going to give the people what they want, if there`s a conspiratorial strain running through conservatism, I think there is, if there`s a "don`t tread on me" strain that obviously goes through conservatism, Fox rather than being responsible, leaders being responsible and saying, OK, I understand your concerns about that, but here is X, Y and Z, the facts, here`s the truth, here is why you have to get vaccinated, they`re enabling it, right?

So, they`re not thinking long term about, is this people going to be alive to be in my ratings in 2040? They`re thinking about ratings today.

REID: Yeah.

MILLER: And the person doing the best is the person who`s driving the most disinformation, Tucker.

REID: Who is vaccinated. He won`t admit it but they`re all vaccinated. They`re required to be vaccinated to work there. They`re the strictest of all cable companies in terms of making them get back. Trust and believe -- all the Fox people don`t watch this -- but if you did, if somebody says it to you, all of those people who are telling you not to get vaccinated are vaccinated, all of them.

Dr. Blackstock, let`s go to this one. Geraldo, who I don`t usually agree with, says something that I think is very true. He tweeted, you know, hearing crazy talk on cable TV right now about folks having the constitutional right not to get vaccinated. He`s like, that`s true, they may be dopey, but they do have that right. That`s true. We too have rights to deny the unvaccinated access to our home, school or business.

Is the way to get people to get vaccinated, the way that France did it, said, fine, if you don`t want to get vaccinated, you can`t go to public events, you can`t go on a cruise, you can`t come to this business, you can`t come to the party. Is that the way to do it in your view?

BLACKSTOCK: You know what? I think so. I think the Biden administration has not wanted to wade into those legal waters, but I think they need to put the pressure on employers, on health care facilities to mandate vaccine. And we actually know when we survey the unvaccinated, there is a significant proportion of them who say they will take the vaccine if it is mandated by their employer or if it influences whether or not they`re able to go on a sporting event or on a flight.

And so, we know it is going to make a difference. So, no pun intend it, but I think vaccine mandates are going to move the needle for us.

REID: And you know who is doing that because we know it is true? Because Fox is doing it! Because Fox is literally doing the exact thing. You can`t work there unless your behind is vaccinated, at Fox.

I`m going to leave it there.

Dr. Uche Blackstock and Tim Miller, thank you both very much.

Everyone, get vaccinated.

Up next, women march for justice in our nation`s capital. We`ll be right back.


PETE BUTTIEGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: Joy, congratulations on one year. You are doing such important work at such an important time. Best of luck to you on the road ahead.


REID: Cool.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: During these challenging times, you`ve been a strong, direct and reassuring voice helping Americans stay safe and informed.

And you have inspired so many, particularly young women of color who see your success as opening the doors of opportunity. Congratulations again to you and your team.

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): Hello, everyone. Happy one-year anniversary to my friend, Joy Reid, and THE REIDOUT. I`m so proud of you, Joy. Congratulations.





UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am here carrying the torch for so many women that have come before us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are building the movement that will give our children and the next generations the life that they deserve.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this time, when our voting rights are under attack, and economic justice is being denied. We must, and so we are, calling out the immoral obstructionism of Congress.


REID: One hundred and seventy-three years ago, today, in Seneca Falls, New York, a group of women held a convention that was the catalyst for the Women`s Right Movement, particularly the right to vote.

Today, a far more diverse group of women marched from the Supreme Court to the United States Capitol to demand an end to the filibuster, passage of the For the People Act, a restoration of the Voting Rights Act, and an increase in the federal-minimum wage, to $15 an hour.

According to the Poor People`s Campaign which organized the march, about 100 women were arrested once they reached the Capitol. One of those arrested, the co-chair of the Poor People`s Campaign, Reverend Liz Theoharis joins me now. She`s also the director of the Cairo Center for Religious Rights, and social justice at union theological seminary, along with Errin Haines, the editor at large of "The 19th."

Thank you, both, for being here.

And, Reverend Theoharis, let me start with you. You were arrested today, marching not just for voting rights. Talk about why that you made it a broader spectrum to include the minimum wage.

REV. LIZ THEOHARIS, NATIONAL POOR PEOPLE`S CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIR: Well, we are living, today, in -- in a nation, that is the richest nation in the world, and yet, 140 million people, 70 million women, are poor or one emergency away. And so, we want to connect the -- the attack, the very dire attack, on voting rights right now, with larger issues of racial and economic justice.

And so, our demands are for, one, is to end the filibuster. Two is to pass all the provisions of the for the people act. Three is to restore the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and four is to raise the minimum wage to a $15- an-hour wage, immediately. And we are calling for this to happen by August 6th which is the 56th anniversary of the passage of the Voting Rights Act. And yet, we have fewer voting rights today that impacts poor and low-income people, by far, the most women, poor women of color, the most.

In -- in this day and age. And -- and it doesn`t have to be this way. And so, we`re organizing. And -- and mobilizing to -- to make a change.

REID: You know, and Erin, it strikes me from the Seneca Falls, you know, convention. All the way to the passage of the right of women at least white women to vote in this country was all the way from 1848 to 1919. And so, the sort of idea that it`s going to take years and years of activism to restore something that a lot of people thought was passed in 1965 seems rather depressing.

What do you make of the fact that it`s back to the streets? Because nothing seems to be happening in the suites of Washington.

ERRIN HAINES, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "THE 19TH": Well, listen. Absolutely. I -- you know, Joy, I want to talk about this. We have a newsroom that is named for (AUDIO GAP) but with an asterisk because we know that it was white women who got the right to vote when the 19th Amendment was ratified 100 years ago last year but look. That was a long fight for white women to get their right to vote but it was an even longer fight for marginalized women, women of color, who would have to wait until their voting rights of 1965 until their voting rights were expanded and frankly, their voting rights have been fragile since then even. They have had to defend their right to vote. You know, even in -- in the wake of the voting rights act of 1965 and those rights are more fragile than ever, before.

And so, you see women continuing to operate with a sense of urgency, willing to put it all on the line, willing to get arrested as the reverend and dozens of other women were arrested today. You have had other women, you know, being arrested, women of color being arrested, in recent weeks, because they are trying to keep the spotlight on this issue. They know that women the majority of the electorate, frankly, you know, have -- you know, their voting rights are uncertain, now.

Even as we know (AUDIO GAP) in this last election. And they are seeing those voting rights being threatened, as a result of that, in many ways.

And Reverend Theoharis is exactly right. These issues are related. The people who voted in record numbers, the women who voted in record numbers were voting for change, were voting for an end to poverty, were voting for a different life for themselves and their families so if the right to vote is in jeopardy for them. Then all of the things that they want to see happen. All of the issues, which are women`s issues, are -- are under threat if -- if the right to vote is under threat.

REID: You know, and to that very point, Reverend Theoharis, I mean, you know, women are the majority of low-wage workers. The majority of sort of working class workers are suffering all these sort of pandemics, social pandemics, all, at the same time. What is the significance of having women leading this movement?

THEOHARIS: Well, I think when we look at change in history, when we look at transformative mission -- transformative movements, it`s always those that are most impacted by the injustice that need to and do take the lead in abolishing that injustice not just for them but for the whole society. And I think that is exactly what`s happening today, when -- when a multiracial-fusion group of women from 35 states across the country, from dozens of partner organizations, put themselves out there, are willing to risk arrest making sure that we see the connections between the fact that - - that you`re exactly right. That the vast majority of the people that we`re now calling essential workers but who are, still, not being paid enough to afford all the essentials of life are women and, especially poor women of color.

And -- and -- and folks have caring burdens, education burdens, and we`re already dealing with the pandemics of racism, the pandemics of poverty that preceded this COVID pandemic. And -- and are -- and have all the more to deal with now, and are leading the way into -- into a transformative movement for change for everyone.

REID: And let me ask you, Erin, about sort of the -- the kind of strategery. This is Amy Klobuchar very quickly. She was on the Sunday show talking about what she called election infrastructure. Take a listen.


SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): We have the infrastructure packages, the Build Back Better packages. The second one will most likely, of course, be a democratic process through another process called reconciliation. We can also put election infrastructure funding, along with housing, and childcare, and the like. And do what we can to incentivize mail-in balloting. That is no, no substitution for the For the People Act, John Lewis Act. But it`s just another vehicle, where I can push these provisions.


REID: Are you hearing anything about that? Talking with people on Capitol Hill, Errin. This idea of doing election infrastructure and, maybe, pushing that through with the reconciliation infrastructure bill?

HAINES: Well, Joy, I think you are increasingly hearing voting rights, as -- as being framed as part of this country`s infrastructure, as part of democracy`s infrastructure. Frankly, if voting rights is not secure, then - - then our democracy is -- is less stable. And so, those are the terms that you`re now hearing that (INAUDIBLE) did. Obviously, you know this administration has been working to kind of redefine what infrastructure can mean for this country.

Senator Klobuchar down there making the case in my hometown of Atlanta, today, at the National Civil and Human Rights Center. Having, you know, that hearing, first in two decades, to try to lay out the case for why voting is such an important part of this country`s infrastructure.

So I think that`s probably a drumbeat and messaging we are going to continue to hear from Democrats.

REID: I am certainly sure of that. Reverend Liz Theoharis, Errin Haines, thank you both very much.

And, by the way, for those of us staying up late, I will be a guest tonight on "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" which is very cool.

That is all for the REIDOUT tonight.