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Transcript: The ReidOut, 4/21/21

Guests: Philonise Floyd, Benjamin Crump, Cheryl Orange, Chesa Boudin, Karen Bass, Kurt Bardella, Angela Rye


Chauvin verdict sparks hope for racial justice. DOJ launches civil rights probe of Minneapolis P.D. Floyd family & friends react to jury verdict. Teen who recorded Floyd killing reacts to verdict. Justice has been served. Three of Chauvin`s fellow officers are still awaiting trial. Chauvin sentencing is scheduled for June 16. Right wing says Chauvin jury was bullied into guilty verdict.


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Thanks for spending time with us here on THE BEAT with Ari Melber, during this momentous time. So I`ll see you at 6:00 P.M. eastern tomorrow. Up next is "THE REIDOUT" with Joy Reid.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, everyone. We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with the question of justice. What does it mean for George Floyd`s family? It means -- well, it feels like some measure of justice happened yesterday, at least. When after three weeks of devastating and emotional testimony, Derek Chauvin was convicted on all counts, allowing them and us to officially state that the former Minneapolis Police officer murdered George Floyd.

The bigger picture, what does justice mean. George Floyd isn`t coming back. He`s not home. His children and his loved ones no longer have their father, their sibling, his friends are without him. Derek Chauvin`s loved ones, well, they can still see him even if just in prison.

And as a society, we are still fundamentally broken in so many ways, our policing system, broken. Socially and politically, we`re still reeling despite the profound relief that so many people felt maybe even just for an hour yesterday, as people not just in Minneapolis but coast to coast took in the news of Chauvin`s conviction with tears of joy, and relief, taking to the streets and reflecting on what comes next.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is something beautiful. This is something different. Finally, some little piece of justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cried tears of joy, tears of joy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was such a moment of vindication of the community getting what it needs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m glad that it was a guilty verdict on all counts. It doesn`t bring George Floyd back. It doesn`t change the outcomes or the way that the system is built and operates.


REID: Because the fact remains this guilty verdict is just one truly rare example of accountability for a police officer in the eyes of justice. As was this, the now convicted murderer, Derek Chauvin, being led out of court in handcuffs, and he is indeed now a murderer and seen as such in the full light of day, as President Biden noted last night.

But true justice requires more than that, right? It requires that going forward, black and other nonwhite people be treated as human beings by law enforcement, as Vice President Harris made clear in her statement yesterday.

And today, the Biden administration took a major step towards real systemic change. The Justice Department launched a investigation of the Minneapolis Police Department, examining its pattern and practice of policing. Attorney General Merrick Garland said, that moving, forward the department would be unwavering in its pursuit of equal justice under law.


MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The challenges we face are deeply woven into our history. They did not arise today or last year. Building trust between community and law enforcement will take time and effort by all of us. But we undertake this task with determination and urgency knowing that change cannot wait.


REID: The announcement also comes with amid renewed calls to pass real intangible police reform in Congress, namely the bill passed in George Floyd`s name, the Justice in Policing Act, to make good on a pledge from President Biden to the Floyd family last night.

And with me now our Philonise Floyd, George Floyd`s brother and Ben Crump, Attorney for the Floyd family. Thank you both so much for being here.

And I want to start with you, Philonise. There are some really moving, great pictures that I saw on Rev Sharpton`s Instagram of the family celebrating together when you all first heard the verdict, guilty read three times by the judge. Can you just give us a sense of how you felt in those moments watching that verdict being read, if you don`t mind?

PHILONISE FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD BROTHER: It was -- I was nervous the entire time. I was pacing back and forth over and over. (INAUDIBLE) they`re telling me, hey, look, whatever you have to do to be comfortable, just do it. If you have to pace yourself back and forth, do it. And that`s what I did. But when it was time for me to go into that courtroom, I had to take that lonely seat in the corner where only one family member could be there. Nobody other could to consult.

And I prayed the entire time. For 30 minutes, it took the jury and the judge 30 minutes to enter the room. And when the judge started reading, and I heard guilty and then I heard guilty and then I heard guilty one more time, I wanted to jump up and down. But I was given the judge respect. But I was excited. I was ecstatic about everything. And it felt like -- joy, I said it`s feels like we won a championship. And my wife said we`re bringing the W-back to H-town, that Houston, Texas.

REID: Yes, you know, Ben, my friend, we`ve been friends since 2006, is when we first met. And we met on a case that also seemed like a slam dunk, also had video. The victim was a 14-year-old little boy. It didn`t go the way that most people thought it should go. We can go through all of the cases, my friend, that you have been involved in.

And so many times, you have been able to at least get some sort of remuneration for the family, get the city to do something for the family. But it is so hard, as you know better than anybody, to get a verdict of guilty when it`s a police officer and a victim is black. So I have to ask you, you were in that room too, how did you feel?

BENJAMIN CRUMP, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, you know, Joy, I told Philonise and the family we were going to get a verdict on Tuesday. And even though, I get it, history has always been very unkind to families that expect police to be forgiven for killing black people. But what I thought different about this, Joy Reid, was the video was a pivotal piece.

But then when I heard that the nine-year-old little girl testify court, I have an 8-year-old named Brooklyn, then what she said, and they asked him nicely to take his knee off his neck but he still didn`t do it. I said, if that jury is made up of parents, they are not going to send the message to their children that that barbaric conduct is acceptable.

And that`s why I had confidence that this jury is going to say, no, we`re not going to send this message to the world. More importantly, we`re not going to send it to the children. And that`s why this verdict, I believe, is so historic and hopefully it will set a precedent.

REID: And I want to show the video of the former police officer, Derek Chauvin, being led out in handcuffs. This is something you just really don`t see. Americans don`t really see this. While I ask you, Philonise, about someone else, you know, that nine-year-old has a cousin named Darnella Frazier who was taking her to buy treats at that store where your brother had also just shopped and we have seen video of him happy, shopping before what happened to him. And her name is Darnella Frazier.

I just want to read you what she said, her reaction to the verdict. She said, I just cried so hard. The last hour my heart was beating so fast. I was anxious, anxiety, bussing through the roof. But to know guilty on all three charged, thank God. Thank you, thank you, thank you. George Floyd, we did it. Justice has been served.

And she was so emotional throughout her testimony literally saying she was so sorry that she couldn`t save him as if she was -- she was just a child, she couldn`t have done anything. Do you have a message for Darnella?

FLOYD: You know, there`s no way that I can repay her but I can honestly tell her that she changed the world, just like Gianna said, her father was going to change the world. God put people in place at certain times to sit there and do the duty that he wanted them to do. And she was the one who recorded motion cinema picture who set the world on fire. People protest because of that video.

They see that officers need to be held accountable and now you have a George Floyd Policing Act that we`re trying to push forward for people like Darnella and her little cousin, a nine-year-old child. They were minors at the time. They both, and I hope not, but I know they may suffer from PTSD now because that`s seared in their mind for life. They watched a grown man being tortured to death.

And she said that could have been my father, that could have been my brother, that could have been my uncle, that could have been my cousin or any one of my friends. And that was devastating to America to see two minors having to go through those type things.

REID: Yes. And, Philonise, you know, first of all, you look so much like George, your brother, that just seeing you, it almost feels like we can talk to him in a way. I think he`s talking through you because you all look so much alike. I mean, you could have been twins.

But I want to give you the opportunity since you have the camera now. We`re going to have a member of Congress on who spearheading getting the George Floyd act passed. To any Republicans or any even Democrats who may doubt getting on the bill in the United States Senate, you have a message for them?

FLOYD: Hey, we all have to stand with each other. We all have to work together. Because it doesn`t matter if you`re a Republican or a Democrat, I tell you one thing. I`ve been black my entire life. And I`ve been pulled over before.

And the difference is my father told me a long time ago, son, make sure you let all the windows down. Don`t matter if you`re a Republican or if you`re a Democrat. Those are the rules that they are made for you. Because Caucasian people don`t have to do anything like that. They don`t have to talk to their kids about that. They can tell them, hey, can you go outside, you can do whatever you want, but we can`t do those type of things.

So accountability for it for what happened is big to the African-American community, people of color, period. Justice will be served and accountability has been served on a platter.

REID: Yes. and you know, Ben, there are three more cases the world has to go through. There are three more officers that were involved. It wasn`t just Derek Chauvin. Are you ready for this? Is the family ready to go another round here in August?

CRUMP: The family is steadfast, Joy. And I believe they may possibly be some clear (INAUDIBLE) because they saw what just happened to Derek Chauvin. But we hope this is just as important as Chauvin`s trial because it sends the message to police that you can`t witness injustice and think that you will have your hands washed off the blood.

So they should have those officers held accountable to send a message to others. How often, Joy, have they told people in our community, when you see a crime, when you see something unjust happen, then we want you to tell us, we want you to talk? Well, police, you all come back before the blue wall of silence. That shows us how it`s done. You tell the truth when you see officers do bad things to black people. Wouldn`t that be a great example for America?

REID: Yes. And, Philonise, you know, one of the things about the trial, and you sat in that room every day, was just how -- you know, we can`t get inside someone`s head or inside their heart, but how sort of icy Derek Chauvin was, just icy as his face looked on that horrifying nine-minute and29-second -- or, you know, we saw eight minutes and 46 seconds of that video of him killing your brother.

Do you expect that when he is sentenced that he`ll finally say something to your family? Because I don`t know if he -- if there has been any message from him to your family, yet, any message of regret, anything. Do you expect to hear that at some point, or do you want to hear it?

FLOYD: You know, I can forgive anybody for anything. But what is going on is he had no remorse, he never apologized. The time that he had his knee on my brother`s neck for nine minutes, 29 seconds, he looked kind of demonic to me, the way he had his hands in his pocket with the smirk on his face. Anybody that can do something like that seriously has to have mental problems. Something is going on upstairs.

Look, life is precious. He was sworn in to serve and protect. But instead he killed an individual who could have been home with me today, home with his daughter, speaking to her and playing with her. She has to live without her father for the rest of her life. This is --

REID: Are you are going to -- are you planning on going to the sentencing, attending it? Both of you?

FLOYD: Yes, ma`am.

CRUMP: Yes, ma`am.

REID: And what do you think -- what do you think the sentence will look like? What are you hoping for here?

CRUMP: Well, obviously, you know, he was a first time offender because he was a police officer, never committed a crime. So they`re going to try to slap him on the wrist. But Keith Ellison, the first African-American attorney general for the state of Minnesota, has talked to us continuously. He is going to say there should be an (INAUDIBLE) departure because of extenuating circumstances. One, the crime was committed in front of children, two, he had a duty to provide service, three, he was a public official engaged in a criminal activity, so all those are enhancers. I believe he`s going to get 20-plus years.

REID: We will see. We will be following this and the remaining trials, if there are trials. I should say that there might be, please. We never know. We never know whate is going to happen.

Philonise Floyd, thank you so much for being here. We love to see you because it does give us a sense of what George Floyd might have been like, because I tell you, you guys, you really could have been twins. I love to see you. And I`m glad to see that you had a moment when at least you could feel some measure of justice. Please tell his daughter that there are a lot of people thinking about her, a lot of people care about her. And so you guys have an extended family here at any time.

And, Ben, you know you`re already family, so I appreciate both of you. Thank you.

CRUMP: Thank you, Joy. Wasn`t last night special? Wasn`t last night special? Then you hugged your children a little tighter last night.

REID: I hugged them -- ever since this is happened, my friend. You know, I have always been a little bit paranoid. And you know, I`ll be honest, look, I`m a person that fears police myself, you know. As much as I`ve been able to accomplish in the world, I`m afraid of them. I have family that are police, I am afraid.

So I think last night was the first time that we could not hold our breath for just a little while. And so, it was, I think for everybody, people felt that way. It was a lot of tears, rears of relief, tears of joy. I don`t know what it was, but it was tears. So thank you very much for being here and sharing this with us this evening. Thank you all both.

Okay, up next on THE REIDOUT, police violence, it`s not just a few bad apples. There is something deeply wrong with the amount of deadly force being used by police in America. But do lawmakers have the courage to do something about it?

Plus, tonight`s absolute worst, the right-wing freak out over the Chauvin verdict, questioning the motive of the jury who did their civic duty and calling it mob justice.

And be sure to join us tomorrow on THE REIDOUT. Stacey Abrams will be here. She joins me after taking her fight against voter suppression right to the Senate Judiciary Committee this week.

THE REIDOUT continue after this.


REID: This is Ma`Khia Bryant, just 16 years old looking, very much like 16-year-olds do, doing her hair in the tutorials she once posted on TikTok, like this one, that is set to Bryson Tiller`s "Just Another Interlude," looking adorable, exhibiting youth and joy.

And we wish her TikToks were a reason why Ma`Khia has risen to prominence, but, instead, it`s the other video that we`re about to show you, the body camera video showing her shot and killed by a police officer in Columbus, Ohio, minutes before a guilty verdict was announced in the murder trial of Derek Chauvin.

Now, a warning: It is disturbing. We`re going to freeze the video before the shots are fired. Here it is.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s going on?

Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Get down! Get down! Get down! Get down!



REID: The Columbus police held a news conference today, where they played to 911 calls. They do not share who made those calls.

Police say Bryant threatened two girls with a knife. The police chief was then asked about one of the underlying issues of police reform, the use of deadly force.


QUESTION: To what degree should an officer opt to use a Taser, rather than his service weapon?

MICHAEL WOODS, INTERIM COLUMBUS, OHIO, POLICE CHIEF: I cannot respond specifically to this specific incident.

But what I can say is, when officers are faced with someone employing deadly force, deadly force can be the response the officer gives. If there`s not deadly force being perpetrated on someone else at that time, an officer may have the opportunity to have cover, distance and time to use a Taser. But if those things aren`t present, and there is an active assault going on, in which someone could lose their life, the officer can use their firearm to protect that third person.


REID: I`m joined now by San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin and Lieutenant Cheryl Orange of the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department and a member of the Ethical Society of Police.

Thank you both for being here.

And I want to start with you, Lieutenant Orange, because my assumption is that this officer is going to be cleared, right? I mean, this is the way -- this is going to go down the way most of these shooting cases go down, because police have tremendous latitude to use deadly force. Fine.

But the problem is, at this point, everything police say to me is just a claim that needs to be proven, even if there`s a -- unless they`re full accounting. They won`t tell us who made the 911 call. Neighbors say that the little girl, that Ma`Khia made the 911 call. They aren`t telling us that. They aren`t being fully transparent here.

That`s why it`s very difficult to trust what they`re saying.

So, as you look at the circumstances of this, can you just walk us through how police should act in a case like this? Because I was saying on my Instagram earlier, I remember fights in even high school or even younger than that where a kid brought a pen knife or something to school, and teachers were able to defuse, and they didn`t have guns.

So what do you make of the, what, 10, 20 seconds this officer took before he opened fire on this little girl?


Well, first of all, the most important thing that we got to recognize is that a 15-year-old girl lost her life. And that is very tragic.

One of the things that, as police officers, that we must have is -- number one, is empathy and compassion. And to do that, you have to understand, first of all, what you`re dealing with.

And hearing -- I guess that was the police chief, who said that, in many cases, when you have deadly force, that, as law enforcement officers, we can legally use deadly force.

But we`re talking about a child here that was involved in the altercation with someone else. And, yes, I believe there was a weapon. Now, I could not see how the young lady was using the weapon. I can`t really speak to that.

But the main thing is, is that, as law enforcement officers, it`s our job to make an assessment and then make a decision. But, at the end of the day, we are talking about a 15-year-old girl that has lost her life tragically.

Now, could something else be done? It`s a possibility. But it`s -- that death speaks to each individual officer and how they assess that situation.

REID: And, very quickly, before I bring into the DA -- and this is going to -- I`m sorry -- this is one I want to use, for my team.

Somebody -- one of the officers who responded to the scene had on a Blue Lives Matter face mask. Social media has shown videos of people yelling at somebody who yells "Blue lives matter." We don`t know whether it was one of the police.

But if people -- if cops are showing up to the scene of a shooting of somebody, and there`s people in pink jumpsuits running around and girls, teenage girls running around, and your response to that, given the sensitivities we`re in right now, on the day of the George Floyd verdict, is to self in a Blue Lives Matter mask, what message do you think that is sending to the community and to black people in general about your value for human life?

ORANGE: Well, yes, ma`am.

I think that is -- me personally -- is very disrespectful and unprofessional, because you need to be -- again, like I said earlier, you need to show some kind of empathy. And to actually use empathy, you got to have understanding.

You have to have some knowledge base. And, to me, that will be just really insensitive, because it`s like right out in your face: Yes, you talk about black lives matter, but blue lives matter also. But what about people like myself, who both black and blue?

REID: Right, right. And that`s a very good point.

OK, so I want to bring you in. Thank you for being here, Mr. Boudin, because you are doing some things that are a bit different in the way that you`re trying to sort of -- sort of operate the sort of police/justice that does work in tandem.

First thing I want to talk about is the fact that, when police shootings happen, journalists generally tend to rely on the statements that come out of police departments.

But we have seen in multiple cases that that is not a good idea, because we`re not necessarily getting the truth. In the Walter Scott case -- this was in South Carolina -- police alleged that there was a struggle, that the man -- that the man gained control of the Taser, tried to use it against the officer, the officer then resorted use his service weapon.

That was a lie. It turns out that, because there was person that had a camera that showed on video, that, actually, that was not true.

We saw the same thing happened with George Floyd. Police put out an official statement: The suspect needed to get in handcuffs and he had a medical distress situation.


We have now seen that happen multiple times, that we cannot necessarily trust the statements that come out of law enforcement when we see these incidents happen. There`s that.

And then when people like yourself try to sort of change the way we`re doing it and say, OK, we will take police out of these situations, we won`t have them arrest people for having weed, we won`t have people arrest -- arrest people for prostitution and other crimes, let me show you a couple of headlines about you.

A thing called Law Enforcement Today called you the son of cop killers, and went after you in really nasty terms, simply because you had eased a policy on police stops. So, they`re mad at you and put out this to law enforcement that they`re reading about it.

So, like, there`s a -- there`s a not being honest with the public piece, and then there`s a being hostile to people like you who try to change things piece.

So, what do we do about that?

CHESA BOUDIN, SAN FRANCISCO DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, Joy, thanks for having me on. And thanks for covering such critical issues to public safety and public trust in law enforcement.

In San Francisco, we`re working every day to restore the trust that communities, especially communities of color, have in law enforcement. We know we can`t build public safety if we continue to have unnecessary loss of life at the hands of police.

And so I`m really proud of the work we`re doing in San Francisco. I have a dedicated unit that shows up to the scene of any officer-involved shooting. And we take the lead on investigating what happened and whether or not we should file criminal charges.

Last year, I implemented a policy treating victims of police violence like victims of any other violent crime. We provide them with the same services and the same benefits. And I`m proud that we also sponsored a state law that would make my local policy effective all across the state of California.

We have a long way to go. And the verdict yesterday in the George Floyd trial, that was one case. That was an aberration. That was an anomaly. We have these kinds of cases happening all day, every day. And it is really rare that there is the political courage or the evidence or the expertise or a police chief willing to get on the stand and testify against one of his own.

We need to remember that, since George Floyd`s trial started, since the evidence was first presented to that jury, we have had more than 60 people across the country killed at the hands of law enforcement.

REID: Yes.

BOUDIN: Most of those cases will never result in a criminal charge or a trial.

And we have got to do a lot of work to change the culture.

REID: Very quickly, before I let you go, Mr. Boudin, my last question to you.

Do you think part of the issue is that police are essentially gaining revenue for cities by pulling people over, and so they`re targeting communities that basically can`t fight back, poorer communities, communities of color, and that police maybe shouldn`t be doing that kind of policing that generates money for the city?

Is that part of the issue, do you think?

BOUDIN: There`s definitely a financial interest. You look at the role police unions play in a lot of these policies and protecting a lot of bad actors.

This is an issue that I know the Ethical Society of Policing is really proactive on, right? We need to speak out and denounce misconduct and criminal activity, even if it`s amongst our own colleagues or within our ranks.

REID: Yes.

BOUDIN: It is essential to the well-being and safety of all the officers doing a good job that we hold those accountable who violate our trust.

REID: Indeed.

We will have you guys back. We want to have more of a discussion on this.

Chesa Boudin, as well as Lieutenant Cheryl Orange, thank you both very much.

Still ahead: a moment of truth on Capitol Hill. Can Democrats use the Chauvin verdict to build support for the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act? Or will conservatives use it as an argument against meaningful reform?

We will be back after this.


REID: Seven weeks ago, the House passed the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, a police reform bill that would ban choke holds, no-knock warrants in certain cases, and revisit so-called qualified immunity for law enforcement.

The bill would also mandate data collection on police encounters, prohibit racial and religious profiling, and redirect funding to community-based policing programs. It faces an uphill battle in the Senate, where Republicans are averse to doing basically anything, except virtue signaling to their base.

One senator has shown interest, however, Tim Scott of South Carolina. The lone black Republican senator has been open to reintroducing a competing hearing piece of legislation, which, among other things, would encourage police departments to end choke holds and no-knock warrants, but would not outright ban them.

Scott has been negotiating with California Congresswoman Karen Bass, the original author of the House bill. In the wake of the verdict, Senator Scott sounds in a public note of optimism.


SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): I think we are on the verge of wrapping this up in the next week or two, depending on how quickly they respond to our suggestions.


REID: Privately, senior Democratic and Republican aides are telling Axios that the Chauvin verdict reduces pressure on Congress to deliver on police reform.

With me now is Congresswoman Karen Bass of California.

That`s my first question for you, Congresswoman.

Thank you for being here.

Is that true, that the fact that there was a guilty verdict makes it less likely that these reform bills will get through?

REP. KAREN BASS (D-CA): That`s absolutely false. It is the exact opposite. Yesterday was a hopeful day. But, Joy, as you know, it was an important first step. We have to have the sentencing now.

No, I think it has created tremendous energy and hope and momentum. And I do agree with Senator Scott. We need to wrap this up.

REID: And you`re working with Senator Scott, who he has his own interesting story. I remember going to a talk that he did with E.J. Dionne at Georgetown, where he talked about being stopped by police as a black man, that he`s been through this himself as a black man. He would know.

How sincere do you think he is in not only being -- wanting this bill to get through, but also in being able to deliver the 10 Republican votes that he would need?

The last time, his version of the bill failed to get cloture. It went down 55 to 45. Do you think he can deliver the 10 votes?

BASS: Well, I do.

I mean, I think that he`s been an honest broker throughout this process. I think he`s very sincere. And, yes, he does have his own personal story. I don`t know too many black people, men or women, who don`t have their own personal story.

But I will tell you, one part of his personal story was just recently being stopped by the Capitol Police. He had his Senate pin on. They asked for his driver`s license. And that wasn`t that long ago. And so everybody has their personal stories. For me, this is very personal. And I think all of that is going to help us get it across the finish line.

REID: But let`s talk about the differences in the bills, because I think the fear that a lot of people have is that a compromise bill won`t really do much, right, that the original bill that passed through the House would ban choke holds, it would ban no-knock warrants. It did a lot of stuff that is really important to people.

BASS: Right.

REID: Are you -- are we looking at having to give that up and still allow police to be able to do what they did to Breonna Taylor, to do no-knock warrants...


REID: ... to choke people out, like they did with George Floyd?


I think it`s really critical. We`re not talking about window dressing or smoke and mirrors. We are talking about substantive legislation. I think it`s accurate to say that we have discussions. We do not have formal negotiations, which would have to be designated and appointed by leadership. But I do think that there`s enough common ground.

So, when we`re talking about a bill, we`re not talking about the JUSTICE Act, which was Senator Scott`s bill.

REID: Yes.

BASS: There are elements in that bill that you know were similar.

But we are talking about legislation that has a teeth -- has teeth in it. And holding police accountable is absolutely critical. I mean, Derek Chauvin didn`t think anybody was going to hold him accountable. That`s why he was looking at the camera and doing what he was doing.

And that has to end.

REID: And so I don`t know if you have had conversations with the Floyd family.

Philonise Floyd was on earlier on, on the show. And he`s very much interested in being a part of the advocacy for this bill. Have you guys had conversations with the family?

BASS: I have not had direct conversations, not recently.

To me, it`s just -- I haven`t really wanted to talk to them about the bill, because I feel like the centerpiece was the trial, and then just their grieving process.

REID: Yes.

BASS: But I am absolutely ready, willing, and able to involve them in every kind of way.

REID: You know, we never get to do good news on this show.


REID: So I want you to, maybe, if you have it, give me some. Do you think that we could, in theory, have a George Floyd Policing Act, a justice bill, before the anniversary of his murder?

BASS: Yes. There is no reason for us not to. We introduced this bill almost a year ago. And so it`s time to act. And how much more do we need?

And what I`m worried about, Joy, because you know the way this works. The energy is there now.

REID: Yes.

BASS: There could be a hurricane or something tomorrow that completely shifts the agenda.

And so we absolutely have to act now. I think people demanded it.

REID: Yes.

BASS: I think that`s why people voted for us.

REID: Yes.

BASS: And so we have to deliver.

REID: I got to ask you about the confirmation of Vanita Gupta for Justice Department`s number three...

BASS: Yes.

REID: ... despite a lot of opposition, also Kristen Clarke, who is phenomenal as well.

What will be the change here? It was a 51-49 vote. It was very close. Senator Lisa Murkowski actually crossed over and did vote for her.

What do you think they will be able to accomplish and change at Justice that`s important?

BASS: Well, I think it`s just going to be amazing.

I have worked with these two women, who I believe are phenomenal. And they are going to make a big difference. Between them and -- the number one thing that needs to be -- needs to happen is the rebuilding of the Department of Justice, so that it is a Justice Department that works for America and not a Justice Department that works for an individual.

And I think they will lead the way. They will restore the civil rights teeth in the Department of Justice.

REID: Congresswoman Karen Bass, can you keep us up to date, please, on what`s going on with this bill?

BASS: I will.

REID: A lot of interest here. So, we really want to know. So, yes, please keep in touch with the show. Thank you very much.

BASS: Absolutely.

REID: All right. Have a great evening.

And up next, I`m shocked. Just shocked, I say, to find the right-wing freaking out over the Chauvin verdict. No, really, totally astounded. Completely downright flabbergasted.

Tonight`s "Absolute Worst" is next.

Stay with us.


REID: The reaction from the right to yesterday`s guilty verdict in the Chauvin murder trial was both stunning and remarkable. We saw QAnon Congresswoman Marjorie Green paint a dark and foreboding picture of Washington, D.C. in, wake of the verdict, saying, D.C. is completely dead tonight. People stayed in and were scared to go out, because of fear of riots. Police are everywhere. Have riot gear. BLM is the strongest terrorist threat to our country.

Thankfully, the actual residents of Washington, D.C., called her out for her deception, including journalists who accurately reported it was a completely normal night. People were walking dogs, parks were full and restaurants were busy.

Then there was former Trump Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany, who criticized Joe Biden for the comments he made about the trial after the jury had already been sequestered.

Here was her unsolicited advice to the president yesterday.


KAYLEIGH MCENANY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There is so much hurt, so much pain and I think it`s the role of the president of the United States to stay back, to not enflame the tension. It`s such a tinder box moment, and I think he should have just reserved comment and said he`s praying for the family.


REID: Reserved comment? Her former boss literally gave a running commentary on active cases and investigations, attacking judges, jurors, and prosecutors and tried to intervene in the criminal proceedings against his friends. In fact, he interfered so much with the Justice Department that his own attorney general effectively told him to shut up.

But the worst reaction came from Tucker Carlson who suggested that the only reason the jury rendered a guilty verdict is because they were too intimidated to do otherwise.


TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: The jury in the Derek Chauvin trial came to a unanimous and unequivocal verdict this afternoon. Please don`t hurt us. The jury spoke for many in this country. Everyone understood perfectly well the consequences of an acquittal in this case after a nearly year of burning, and looting and murder by BLM, that was never in doubt.


REID: That (ph) microwave meal is not only insulting the intelligence of the jury, he is propagating the myth that racial justice is something to be terrified of. And the Black Lives Matter protests, by the way, have been overwhelmingly nonviolent. A study by the Harvard Radcliffe Institute found that overall levels of violence and property destruction were law at these protests and most of the violence that did take place, in fact, was directed against the BLM protester.

That would include the victims of Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenage militia member who shot and killed two members in Kenosha, Washing -- Wisconsin. But that wasn`t always we saw from Tucker last night. Just wait until the way he shut down a guest that dared to say that excessive force was used against George Floyd.

And that is coming up next.


REID: The sheer outrage among many Republicans in the wake of the Chauvin verdict reveals a lot about the current day GOP. Their narrative as we saw from microwave guy Tucker Carlson is that jury was bullied into convicting Derek Chauvin despite all that evidence.

And when a former New York deputy sheriff challenged that ridiculous narrative, saying Chauvin was rightfully convicted, that`s like ten cops testified against him, Tucker just lost it.


ED GAVIN, FORMER NYC CORRECTINS OFFICIAL: It was an open and shut case. But moving forward, we need to do in my opinion, as we need to have --

CARLSON: How about enforce the law, Ed? Do we need to do that? So, hold on. Wait. Slow down.

Do we enforce the law? Like let`s say people are going through the windows in Macy`s and cops are standing there. When the do they start doing something about it and protecting everyone else, not just George Floyd?

GAVIN: No. I want -- I want people to protect -- I want the police to protect people. But when specifically what we`re dealing with here, we`re dealing with a person in custody who was handcuffed and he was subdued. I just think that it was excessive.

CARLSON: Yeah, well, it happened.

GAVIN: What I`d like to do --


CARLSON: The guy who did it looks like he`s going to spend the rest of his life in prison. So, I`m kind of more worried about the rest of the country which, thanks to police inaction, in case you haven`t noticed, has like boarded up.

That`s more my concern. But I appreciate you coming on. Ed Gavin, thank you.

Nope. Done. Thank you.


REID: Joining me now is Kurt Bardella, former House Oversight Committee spokesman, Angela Rye, former executive director and counsel of the Congressional Black Caucus.

First of all, my first question, is Tucker okay? He sounded like the joker. He just did a joker laugh, like he`s a maniac, like maybe we should like hide your kids, hide your wife, be careful if Tucker is in your neighborhood.

My first question to you -- Kurt Bardella, Florida Republican Congressman Joe Walsh tweeted on Tucker, who literally laugh the Joker last night after a murder conviction, he says I have a million followers on Facebook, most are GOP base voters, Trump supporters. Virtually all of them last night and this morning echoed Tucker Carlson`s take that the jury was bullied into making that verdict. It was mob justice. Virtually all of them believe that.

What is going on in your former party, Kurt?

KURT BARDELLA, FORMER HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE SPOKESPERSON: Well, Joy, we`re seeing once again it`s almost a wash, rinse, repeat of what we saw from January 6th. Rather than call it for what it is, let our eyes and ears and brains and judgment do the work. They`re rewriting history. They`re now inventing this scenario in which these jurors who are sequestered as you noted earlier are somehow intimidated into a unanimous guilty verdict.

It can`t possibly be that the jurors watched the 9 1/2 minutes there and came to the astute conclusion that this guy was murdered by a police officer. That can`t possibly be. No, it has to be that they`re afraid of all of us out here calling for equal justice.

And it`s exactly what they did with January 6th. It wasn`t Trump supporters. No, it was Black Lives Matter. It was Antifa. It was people disguised as Trump supporters.

The nonsense that people like Tucker Carlson or Ron Johnson spew every day, it`s a constant, ongoing effort to have their voters be completely detached from reality and not trust their senses. Not trust their eyes. Not trust the ears. And instead believe their alternate realities.

REID: I mean, the thing is, Angela, I mean, the Black Lives Matter, the violence that black lives matter protest has been against Black Lives Matter. Heather Heyer was a Black Lives Matter advocate run down by a car in Charlottesville. The two people that Kyle Rittenhouse killed were Black Lives Matter advocates, who happened to be white.

Let me play -- this is the governor of Florida basically saying what Tucker said in a way. Listen to him.


GOV. RON DESANTINS (R), FLORIDA: I don`t know what happened with this verdict. But if that`s something that can potentially happen where you basically have justice meted out because the jury is scared of what a mob may do -- again, I`m not saying that`s what happened here. But certainly to think that somehow that is going to influence how the rule of laws applied is -- it would be a total disaster if that idea takes hold.


REID: Now that`s a governor joining in that as well, Angela. Your thoughts?

ANGELA RYE, POLITICS & CULTURE COMMENTATOR: You know, Joy, I`m so tempted to engage in poking fun much these folks. But the platforms they have, the influence they have not just over public discourse, but over the law, over the minds of people if we talk about Tucker Carlson talking about the jury verdict was basically please don`t hurt us, the jury verdict is exactly that. But the please don`t hurt us is different from what he alleges, right? The please don`t hurt us is about everybody black body that has been taken at the hands of police violence year after year after year where there`s been no video.

I said earlier you have to wonder for all of the times that we have said I can`t breathe, why this one mattered. And to me, Joy, you know, I`ve just been thinking about it all day. Is it that nine minutes anything that exceeds nine minutes is all of a sudden brutal enough? Terrorist enough? Violent enough to deem us worthy of saving, right? Is that what it really takes?

And so what I would challenge Joe Walsh with, who`s already been challenged once by me, but I`ll challenge him again since he wants to duel, to think about what it means to have a sliding scale on how someone`s life matters and at what cost.

For Tucker Carlson, I challenge him to look at the facts as you pointed out just moments ago, Joy, about what Black Lives Matter actually stands for. So while they are pooh-poohing this verdict, you know as a black woman in this country, we can hardly celebrate the verdict because Makiyah Bryant was killed. Because -- and she is 16 years old with four shots in her chest, when she`s the one who needed saving, calling the police for salvation only to find salvation evaded once again.

You think about yesterday in Knox County. I`m sorry, Anthony Thompson Jr. has no charges filed against the officers who killed him inside of a school 17 years old. You think about ten days ago, Daunte Wright.

And so, I would ask you to think about why are you pooh-poohing this verdict. Is it even enough? Does it even address all of the pain that black people have experienced in this country for too long and other people of color?

Adam Toledo, right? Like what else needs to happen for us to not make fun of the fact that the justice system for once finally held an officer accountable? We have to be more responsible with our speech. We have to be more aware.

To see somebody like Kayleigh McEnany on TV talking about Joe Biden using his words irresponsibly, are you kidding me? I`m not going to cuss on MSNBC. But you are kidding me? Do you not know who you just worked for?

REID: Right?

RYE: We really have to be a lot more accountable. So, I`m trying to be more cautious, right, in what I`m saying, but I`m triggered sitting here, sir.

REID: Amen.

RYE: Like I don`t know what it`s going to take for folks to survive in this country.

REID: Exactly. I think everyone is so triggered at this point as well. I mean, literally you have somebody who hosts the most popular show on Fox right now in terms the ratings, Kurt, using his platform to laugh like a maniac in the face of a 9-1/2-minute murder. He thinks that`s hysterically funny and what he really wants to talk about is why can`t you police the black people harder?

You have in multiple states people like the governor of Florida passing laws to basically let police run protesters over with their cars, basically saying, let be more violent towards the protesters as well. Very quickly, are we going to get to the point where people on the right, Kurt, are lionizing? Is that what is going to happen? The way they did with George Zimmerman. Are they going to start lionizing Derek Chauvin? Is that what we need to brace ourselves for?

BARDELLA: I think that what we`ve seen, Joy, is that there is no low that`s too low for these people to go to. And that`s exactly what they`re going to continue to do.

REID: I hope that`s not what happens. We shall she.

Thank you, Kurt Bardella. Thank you, Angela Rye.

That is tonight`s REIDOUT.

"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts, well, right now.