IE 11 is not supported. For an optimal experience visit our site on another browser.

Transcript: The ReidOut, 4/12/21

Guests: Marilyn Mosby, Charles Booker, Cedric Alexander, Mara Gay


Minnesota Police say traffic stop shooting was accidental. It`s day 11 of testimony in Chauvin murder trial. Prosecution presents spark of life testimony. Stoughton says, Floyd presented no threat of harm or escape. It`s the second night of protests after fatal police shooting. Trump sycophants and Republican legislators across the country have introduced nearly 400 restrictive voting laws, predicated on that lie, weaponizing this delusional fantasy that Trump would have won the election were not for those dastardly fake voters in black and diverse precincts.


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: All important points, and a big interview. Ayman Mohyeldin, thank you. We`re out of time. I`m going to pass it off. "THE REIDOUT" with Joy Reid starts now.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, everyone. We begin THE REIDOUT tonight with a crisis in American policing. Communities in Minnesota are again in anguish, mourning the life of yet another black life taken by law enforcement. This time it is Daunte Wright, just 20 years old, who was shot and killed during a traffic stop after a Minnesota Police officer shouted taser but fired her handgun instead.

At this hour, we are monitoring a vigil for Mr. Wright at the site his car crashed after he was shot. After Minnesota`s governor announced a curfew for the counties surrounding Minneapolis beginning at the top of the hour.

Also, shocking new video has emerged of a second lieutenant in the U.S. Army Medical Corps who is black and Latino being held at gunpoint by two police officers in Virginia, during a traffic stop in December. He was pepper-sprayed and then threatened by an officer.

Both incidents are happening against the backdrop of day 11 in the murder trial of a former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin. The prosecution is expected to officially rest its case tomorrow after presenting nearly 40 witnesses, including today a cardiologist and a law professor who specializes in use of force, as well as one of the people that knew George Floyd the best, his brother, Philonise Floyd.


PHILONISE FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: George, he would always be upon our mom, he was a big momma`s boy. I cry a lot, but, George, he loved his mom.

Being around him, he showed us like how to treat our mom and how to respect our mom. He just loved her so dearly.

He just was like a person that everybody loved around the community. He just knew how to make people feel better.


REID: Today, was the second so-called sparked of life testimony, intended to portrayed George Floyd as a living person, a factor that sometimes gets lost in the legal analysis, the calls for reform and a reckoning, the tapes that we`re forced to endure again and again, and all the other details of the trial, the fact black that these black men and women and children were once people living people, that George Floyd was alive until he wasn`t.

The defense for Derek Chauvin, the ex-police officer who killed George Floyd, begins tomorrow.

Joining me now from Minneapolis, NBC News Correspondent Gabe Gutierrez. And, Gabe, you were inside the courtroom for part of the testimony today. Can you just give us a sense, and I know it is hard to tell obviously of sort of what the color was, was the jury attentive, in your view, sort what was the vibe inside the courtroom.

GABE GUTIERREZ, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Joy. I mean, today was very dry medical testimony, at least at the beginning of the day. And from what I saw, many of the jurors were very attentive, they were taking notes, even during some of those portions that were drier than the emotional testimony we had seen previously.

Now, Joy, to give you an idea, you have to go through heavy security here at the courthouse. There are very few pool reporters that get to go in each day. And I went in this morning, was actually there for the motions hearing before the testimony as well, and, Joy, that`s when Chauvin`s defense attorney actually made a motion to try and sequester the jury because of events that were unfolding just ten miles from here. The judge denied that motion.

But then the testimony started. You mention the first cardiologist, then in the afternoon, it was Philonise Floyd that gave the spark of life testimony. And actually in between breaks, Joy, I spoke with Philonise. And he said that he had woken up at 1:00 in the morning when he got a phone call. And he hadn`t been able to sleep. He had been up since 1:00 in the morning and he hadn`t actually heard about that other police shooting in Minneapolis suburb until later on in the morning.

But he said that he had been looking forward to giving his testimony. He actually broke down in tears a bit when speaking about his mother and George Floyd`s mother. And I spoke with him just a few moments ago actually when he was walking out of court with the rest of the family and the family attorney, Ben Crump, and he says that it was an extremely, extremely emotional day. Joy?

REID: Yes. One other quick question for you, because there has been sort of a question about whether or not Derek Chauvin has had anyone sitting on his side as obviously George Floyd`s side has usually had at least somebody in court. Was there anyone sitting on that side?

GUTIERREZ: Yes, there was. There wasn`t at the very beginning of the day during the motions hearing but it is a woman, we don`t know who it is though. And she didn`t make herself available for an interview. She and the defense team along with Derek Chauvin kind of rushed out the court in between the break, so you couldn`t actually ask who she was.

But from what I am told, she`s the same woman that had been there last week and, again, she was described I think to one reporter as a family friend, but it is unclear who she is.

Now, Joy, you remember for many days during the beginning of this trial, there was no one in that chair. And it`s a bit of a strange setup where you have one chair designated for the Derek Chauvin supporter or family member and then you have just a few feet away the chair designated for the Floyd family. In between, there`s a chair for a deputy who kind of stays there but no interaction between the two. Joy?

REID: Gabe Gutierrez, thank you very much. I really appreciate the reporting. Thank you.

And joining me now is the Reverend Al Sharpton, the civil rights leader who delivered a eulogy at George Floyd`s funeral, and Glenn Kirschner, MSNBC Legal Analyst and a former federal prosecutor.

And, Rev, I am so glad that you`re here tonight because you deal with this unfortunately far too often, having to be there for these families when they`ve lost someone and they`re suddenly thrust into the spotlight. Obviously, you delivered the eulogy for George Floyd at his funeral, as you have done for so many others. Can you just talk about that perspective? First of all, what did you make of watching Philonise Floyd on the stand today and what impact that had?

REVEREND AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: I talk with Philonise yesterday. We talk about everyday that I`m not down there. I`ve been down two or three times. And we talk about everyday and he was asking me what did I think he should be thinking about. I said think about your brother. I don`t want to tell you how to testify. Just think about your brother, relax and tell the truth.

And then about early this morning, he called me, and said he has been up all night, he got a call at 1:00 in the morning, couldn`t go back to sleep. But to show you the kind of person and he is in the family, he called me about an hour before his testimony and he said all right, Rev, lead us in prayer, and he turned the speaker on and his brothers and nephew Brandon and brother, Rudy, got around the phone and we had prayer. And we have been doing that many mornings that I wasn`t there. From there we do it in person.

This family prays every day for strength to go through this because I think people don`t realize, to me it is an issue. I head National Action Network, we fight civil rights issues. To people in media, it is a story. This is their brother, this is their uncle, this is their cousin. They watched him grow up. And to have to watch over and over again the video of him narrating his own death, the autopsy, was very traumatic for them. And they did not ask to be thrust into the spotlight.

And I think they`ve adjusted because they want justice for what happened to their brother. Other than that, they would not choose this life at all. They would much rather have their brother with them.

REID: Yes, absolutely. I can remember Trayvon Martin`s dad calling it the worst fraternity you never wanted to join, and suddenly you`re bonded to all of these other families who`ve lost people. Nobody wants this. And then suddenly you also have to be a public person. I can`t imagine going through it.

You know, and, Glenn, then you had the defense today try to use what happened to Daunte Wright to their advantage, which was curls to me, I have to be honest. It was sort of shocking that they try to sort to do a motion, I guess, to try to take advantage of the opportunity, you know, the sort of psychic pain that the community was in yet again for another shooting to try to get a favorable ruling on their side. What did you make of that and of the closing that the prosecution put forward today?

GLENN KIRSCHNER, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: So, Joy, not to be overly critical of the defense attorney, but I felt like he was making that motion knowing full well it would be denied by the court but preserving it as an appellate issue. Because every single motion that is denied by the judge you can bet in the event of conviction, we`re going to see it raised as an appellate issue.

It will fail as an appellate issue primarily because jurors are presumed to follow the instructions of judges. And when judges say do not listen to outside media accounts and if you inadvertently come into contact with some, tell me and then you have to assure me that you can put it out of your mind and continue to decide the case based only on the evidence you hear during the trial.

So it doesn`t surprise me that the defense makes what I view as some frivolous motions. Regarding the case that the prosecution sort of was finishing up today, you know, it got more and more powerful because now you have expert witnesses that are not only forensic pathologists, medical examiners, we saw a powerful pulmonologist in Dr. Tobin.

Today we saw a cardiologist, a guy who specializes in heart transplants, and they all say the same thing, which, in essence, cardiopulmonary arrest from low oxygen as a result of police restraint and it is asphyxiation. There`s no getting around that.

So I look forward to see how the defense thinks it`s going to be able to attack those findings in their case.

REID: They`ll be like just little bit -- this was a use of force expert, this is the use of force expert. He was Seth Stoughton, and he`s arguing that the continued use of force was not reasonable. Take a listen.


SETH STOUGHTON, LAW PROFESSOR & PLICE USE OF-FORCE EXPERT: It`s clear from the number of officers and Mr. Floyd`s position, the fact that he is handcuffed and he`s been searched, he doesn`t present threat of harm. His actions don`t indicate that he present any threat of escape.

Someone that doesn`t have a pulse does not present a threat in any way.


REID: So next week, to stay with you for just second, Glenn, the defense is going to be basically try to argue that George Floyd killed himself, that, you know, he had drugs in his system, he had a heart attack, basically, his own body killed him.

There`s a really great piece that was written in Rolling Stone this weekend that makes the point that the defense has tried pretty much every kind of racial stereotype and health stereotype of black man. Jamil Smith wrote this piece. They`ve tried every one of them. You know, he`s superman, he`s super strong, he`s super filled with drugs, he`s going to jump up and raise from the dead and kill the officers.

What I thought what was really effective is that the prosecution keeps showing the officers, they look casual, they look calm, they don`t look stressed out, they say they were terrified of the crowd, they don`t look terrified. They look fine. They`re goading -- sort of goading the crowd at a certain point. I wonder if you can sort of give us an idea what on earth he can possibly try to argue.

KIRSCHNER: Yes. So let me preview where I think the defense is going. They`re going to call an expert forensic pathologist by the name of Dr. David Fowler, the former chief medical examiner for state of Maryland for nearly two decades. And here is what -- and I`ve put Dr. Fowler on the stand as my expert witness in murder cases in Washington, D.C. He is a very accomplished forensic pathologist and he`s strong testifying witness.

And here is what he is going to do. He is going to say, you know what, Dr. Baker is the only one who actually performed the autopsy, who put hands on the body, so he is really the only opinion you should credit. And the interesting part about Dr. Baker`s testimony, he is the only one who didn`t say this was asphyxiation or a result of low level of oxygen. He was more general in his description of the cause of death. He left a little bit of wiggle room.

So, Dr. Fowler and the defense team will try to peel off all of those other experts and he`ll try to say, you know what, the drugs, the heart disease, the adrenaline surge all played a part, and we can`t apportion it all out. They`re going to try to sow confusion. I think they`re going to fail.

REID: Very quickly, before we go, Rev, what is Daunte Wright`s family in for? Because now they are facing the same hell that George Floyd`s family is.

SHARPTON: I talked to Daunte Wright`s father today and I prayed with him. The National Action Network is going to certainly work with them. They are in for a real different kind of life now. They`re going to have to bury a 20-year-old son who the police are saying, well, it was a mistake, and the community is saying these mistakes keep happening and they only happen on one side of town.

You have to remember, Joy, that in this period of time, in the last few hours, we have seen a 20-year-old kid killed because they say the tags on the back of the car had expired in a pandemic. We have seen a lieutenant in the Army, in Army fatigues, the film of him being pepper-sprayed and we see George Floyd and the reason he was even arrested, let alone killed, was they thought he bought a pack of cigarettes with a counter fit $20 bill. And you wonder why we say we need the country to understand black lives matter? You can go, you can die for having expired tags or for a phony $20 bill that you may not have even know was a phony $20 bill. It wouldn`t happen in any other community.

REID: Amen. The loosie, Eric Garner, we could go on and on, or playing with a toy gun, Tamir Rice, it is for nothing. There`s usually just impunity. It is infuriating. Always great to talk to with you. Reverend Al Sharpton and Glenn Kirschner, thank you both very much.

Up next on the REIDOUT, the Chauvin trial is just a symptom of a much, much bigger problem, as we`re discussing. Policing, let`s just be honest, it is broken. It`s broken at every level in America. And now, we`re being told that the latest killing of a black man by police just yesterday in Minnesota, as we just discussed, was an accident. Seriously, when you reach in your bag and pull out your house when you meant your car keys, there`s an accident. We`ll discuss the whoopsy defense, next.

And later, clearly, police training is not the solution. So what is? We`ll talk about what real reform looks like.

Plus, Stockholm syndrome in the GOP, the party has been hijacked by a grafter who trashes the party, drives them to defeat and then takes all their money. But they don`t have the guts to extricate themselves from the MAGA cult.

Meanwhile, Matt Gaetz is now reportedly so toxic, he can`t even get a meeting with his dear leader.

THE REIDOUT continues after this.


REID: We are continuing a vigil for 20-year-old Daunte Wright who was shot and killed on Sunday after police say he was stopped for a minor traffic violation and was found to have an outstanding arrest warrant. The governor has imposed a curfew on the Minneapolis area beginning at the top of the hour.

Twenty-year-old Daunte Wright, just 20, was shot and killed on Sunday after police say he was stopped for that minor traffic violation and found to have that outstanding warrant. The police chief today said that he believes the officer, described as a senior member of the force, reached for her Taser, but somehow managed to fire her handgun instead.


TIM GANNON, BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA, POLICE CHIEF: For informational purposes, we train with our handguns on our dominant side and out Taser on our weak side.

This is done purposefully and it`s trained.

As I watched the video and listened to the officer`s commands, it is my belief that the officer had the intention to deploy their Taser, but instead shot Mr. Wright with a single bullet.

This appears to me from what I viewed and the officer`s reaction and distress immediately after that this was an accidental discharge.


REID: Police also released body camera footage of the incident.

And we should warn you, it is graphic.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll Tase you! I`ll Tase you!

Taser! Taser! Taser!

Oh (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I just shot him.




REID: An autopsy report out tonight ruled that the manner of Wright`s death was homicide.

The officer has been placed on an administrative leave. Last night, large crowds massed in front of the police department in response to the killing. Police fired rubber bullets and chemical agents at protesters. Police said that some of them had thrown rocks and water bottles at officers.

Minnesota`s major sports teams all postponed tonight`s games out of respect for the community. Meanwhile, as Minneapolis reels over yet another tragic death of a black man at the hands of police, well, there`s another incident in Virginia.

New footage from last December was released over the weekend showing active-duty Afro-Latino army officer 2nd Lieutenant Caron Nazario, in uniform, no less, being pulled over by police in Windsor, Virginia, with guns drawn and then pepper-sprayed.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car!

2ND LT. CARON NAZARIO, U.S. ARMY: What`s going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car now!

NAZARIO: What`s going on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is going on is, you`re fixing to ride the lightning, son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You received an order. Obey it.

NAZARIO: I`m -- I`m honestly afraid to get out. Can I ask, what is going...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you should be. Get out!

NAZARIO: whoa, hold on. What is going -- hold on. Watch it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the car! Get out of the car now, or you`re going to get it again!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your seat belt off and get out of the car.


REID: The officer who pepper-sprayed and pointed a gun at Lieutenant Nazario and could be heard making that ride the lightning threat has been fired.

Lieutenant Nazario was ultimately not criminally charged or cited for any traffic violation. He`s filed a lawsuit against both officers involved, alleging they violated his Fourth Amendment rights.

The complaint also alleges the police officers threatened to destroy Nazario`s U.S. military career if he complained about the incident. And in body camera footage taken after first responders arrived, one of the officers questioned why the lieutenant hadn`t complied with the officer`s commands.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would be done by now.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Nazario, look, you want to stop in a well-lit area because you`re nervous.

NAZARIO: Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole BLM movement, you`re probably nervous and all that.

They feel the same way. They`re nervous for their jobs and their lives. I get where you`re coming from. They get where you`re coming from.

But let`s let this pepper spray kind of wear off and stuff, and then just have an intelligent conversation with them.


REID: Wow.

Joining me now, Marilyn Mosby, state`s attorney for Baltimore City, Charles Booker, former Kentucky state representative, and Cedric Alexander, former chief of police in Rochester, New York and DeKalb County, Georgia, and a former member of President Obama`s Task Force on 21st Century Policing.

There is a lot to unpack here.

Let me read really quickly the town of Windsor, Virginia`s, statement on the Virginia traffic stop: "The investigation of this event began immediately. At the conclusion of this investigation, it was determined that Windsor Police Department policy was not followed. This resulted in disciplinary action and the department-wide requirements for additional training were implemented beginning in January and continue to the present."

And then it notes that Officer Gutierrez was terminated.

It`s hard to even know where to begin here. But I`m going to go with you, Chief Alexander.

I don`t know how you train people not to just be authoritarian and overly aggressive, if that`s just who they are. This is not a training problem, right? I mean, this does not strike me as a problem with training. It strikes me as a problem with hiring people who don`t have the maturity to be police.

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, FORMER PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Well, first of all, both of these incidents are not a training issue.

But let`s take the incident with the army lieutenant to begin with. That whole scenario, that whole idea that that was a felony stop,that was not a felony stop. He called it in is that as that, but that was a lie.

And then, when he approached the vehicle the way that he did, he used no technical advantage. If that truly had a been a felony stop, how can you get a felony stop out of a tag that is not being displayed where police can see it? That`s not a felony stop.

So, there`s everything that is wrong with this. He was being belittled -- the officer was. He was disrespected. They showed and gave no consideration to the fact that he served his country. But, basically and more importantly than any of that, Joy, they didn`t even treat him like a decent human being.

That is what`s horribly sad. And when you ask the American public, whether it`s black or white, blue or gray, to find some decency in that, nobody that`s got a conscience about themselves can find any decency in it. It`s embarrassing to me as a 40-year veteran, because I`m not going to try to excuse it. I`m not going to try to rationalize it. It was wrong.

Poor policing. Poor selection of personnel. And that entire city government, all those elected officials in that Virginia town need to be held responsible for hiring characters and individuals who conduct themselves that way. Not just officers should be fired. All of them should be fired.

REID: And very quickly, do police officers get trained on the difference between a Taser and a Glock, if they`re carrying a Glock? Because, to me, they don`t seem to look all that similar.

ALEXANDER: Well, absolutely, they do.

And I don`t know what happened in this particular case there in Minnesota. But it is very, very strange. But if she was confused, she`s going to have to be able to articulate that to people other than ourselves. But that is just very tragic beyond belief.

I don`t know what was going through her head. But it is very hard in this climate or any other climate to get people to resonate with and understanding how you go from not being able to identify a yellow Taser to a steel black Glock. It is very difficult for people understand that, and not just in this climate that we`re in, but in general.

So I can`t explain it.

REID: Yes.

ALEXANDER: She`s got you have to be able to.

REID: You have to rack a gun. You`re telling me they just carry a bullet in the chamber ready to fire, and you literally cannot tell your Glock or tell your firearm, your service weapon from a Taser?

I`m not sure you should be a cop.

Let`s move on to Attorney Mosby, because the thing that kind of feels like it`s similar in so many of these cases is that the reason for the stop is minor. It`s the Freddie Gray case, which you very bravely, because it wasn`t very popular with a lot of law enforcement, prosecuted those officers. It wasn`t like he did any -- some super crime. Right?

You think about all of these issues are something that`s relatively minor. There was an air freshener in the back of Daunte Wright`s car. They pull him over for that minor thing, and then they start to run him for priors to see if they got something else on him to get a bigger crime going.

The stop of -- over a paper license tag in the back of the lieutenant`s truck. He had just bought the car. Is the issue here -- because I know you`re doing something about that in Baltimore City -- that there are too many stops over nothing over minor stuff, and police are getting too involved in that?


I think that we in this country have to think to start to reimagine what policing and public safety looks like, because, for black people in this country, these low-level offenses, this needless interaction with law enforcement can lead to a death sentence for black people.

And, as you have already indicated, it`s making eye contact in a high-crime neighborhood and ending up dead, right? Sandra Bland failed to put on a turn signal. George Floyd is alleged to have passed a $20 bill during a global pandemic for groceries.

And so, yes, we -- as an expectation, we have relied on the police to respond to every social ill of society, whether that`s mental health, whether that`s substance use disorder. It`s time to reevaluate that.

But, more importantly, Joy, it`s the culture of violent policing that has existed for black people in this country, that will continue to exist until there`s a recognition that there`s a problem.

REID: Yes.

MOSBY: It`s not until we had iPhones and social media and body-worn cameras that America would believe that a police officer would have the gall to put his knee on someone`s neck handcuffed for nine minutes and 30 seconds.

America has not been willing and wanted to believe that a black uniformed lieutenant in the United States Army can be subjected to the overly dominant policing and brutality that is inflicted on black people every single day in this country.

REID: Yes.

And, Charles Booker, the gall of trying to get this lieutenant to just let it go because they`re so afraid of Black Lives Matter, these police.

Blaming Black Lives Matter for the fact that police are brutal and cruel, and so you`re going to ride the lightning, and that`s because they`re so afraid of Black Lives Matter.

Your thoughts, because you were quite involved in the Breonna Taylor, Black Lives Matter movement? Your thoughts on that?

FMR. STATE REP. CHARLES BOOKER (D-KY): Well, Joy, first of all, thank you for having me.

And your point is absolutely right. I think this highlights a reality, that, if you look like me, you`re going to be seen as a deadly weapon before being seen as a human being. And we are traumatized. We are terrorized. And then we`re told to just let it go.

And when will this stop? For us here in Kentucky, it was Breonna Taylor`s door being busted in. It was David McAtee, the barbecue man, hashtag after hashtag of our loved ones being lost.

And it really does speak to the fact that we are not being treated as human beings. And we`re criminalizing folks because of the color of their skin or how much or how little money they have in their pocket, and we`re excusing it away, instead of doing something about it.

And now`s the time for us to say enough. That`s why I have stood up in my own right to say that I come from that struggle. I have had a firearm pulled out on me for a rolling stop. And, thankfully, I`m still here.

But a lot of our loved ones aren`t. And it won`t change unless we determine that structural racism is at the heart of it, and that we want this inequity to go away, and that we lead for it.

And so I want to commend Attorney Mosby before speaking into that and understanding that we are criminalizing poorer communities. And that is hurting our future. And I want us to lift up the work that we`re doing here in Kentucky to say that no-knock warrants should not be in place, that we need to address qualified immunity. That needs to go.

We need to uplift the humanity of people. And that includes in every office. It certainly includes the United States Senate, which I`m excited to talk to you about.

REID: Yes, absolutely. And we`re going to come to that very shortly.

Cedric Alexander, I want to -- this sort of idea -- and it does feel in some ways as if, internally, police are sort of told it`s you against them, it`s you against the public, the public are the enemy, every single person you run across is a threat, especially as we just heard from Charles Booker, if that person is black. Just assume that they`re threatening.

Police officer, it is a dangerous job in some senses. But there were 48 firearm-related fatalities in 2020, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, each of them tragic to their families.

But there were 264 fatalities in 2020 from COVID -- and the leading cause was COVID. COVID is actually much more dangerous, because officers are confronting people and getting close to them in a lot of cases; 145 officers died from COVID, right, and vs. 48 from firearms-related facilities.

Meanwhile, 1,021 people were shot and killed by on-duty police officers in 2020. Almost none of them will go to prison. Vox had a headline saying, police officers are prosecuted for murder in less than 2 percent of fatal shootings, 2 percent. It almost never happens.

And so what is happening within the communication between police, the unions, et cetera, and police? Are police beings essentially almost sort of -- sort of ramped up against the public, as if the public are just a threat by default?

ALEXANDER: Well, there`s a historical context we can go back to from the inception of policing in this country.

I don`t have to reiterate that. Everybody knows what that is. We knew how - - we know how policing stood up in this country. And what it has traditionally been, and even in the changes and the differences we have tried to make over the years, we`re still somewhat in the same place.

Any death is tragic. I have had to bury police officers, being a chief. I have had to talk to families of police officers who were involved in a shooting and killed a family member. It is tough. Either way it goes, it`s horrible. We don`t want to lose any life.

But to your question, to your question very specifically, policing is broken in this country. And we got to find a way to fix it, because every time we have an incident like this to occur, it`s not based on what the police think happens, as you heard that chief tried to rationalize what happened in that shooting: Well, it was accidental.

Maybe it was, but that`s not a conclusion for him to draw this early in an investigation.

REID: Right.

ALEXANDER: He needs to leave that up to the investigator, because it sounds defensive, and it`s not working for policing.

REID: Yes.

ALEXANDER: But, at the same time, it becomes very apparent to me, someone who knows the profession, who understand the difficulties, the job men and women have to do to go out there to serve and protect, because there are thousands of good police officers.

But those who are out here, offending the badge, who feel that they`re above the law, who cannot and do not want to connect with communities of color, regardless of where they are, they don`t have a place in this profession.

And people like ourselves, even myself, we have got to speak out against it.

REID: Yes.

ALEXANDER: Because it`s the good officers who want better. And it puts them in a very precarious situation that they don`t want to be in.

And I`m here to protect the good officers, not those who take it upon themselves treat people like trash.

REID: Yes.

ALEXANDER: Not acceptable.

REID: And, Attorney Mosby, it is -- as I said, there`s this conflict, right, between what a lot of people want, because, look, there is a -- there are a lot of people who want the movements of black bodies to be constantly policed and monitored.

They want enforcement of lower-level drug crimes, even though a lot of Silicon Valley boys are selling weed now. It`s popular for them to do it. But if they know that there`s weed being sold in Baltimore, they want those people prosecuted, right?

So, when you went out and said, I`m not going to do that anymore, what was the reaction? Because I know there are some people who are concerned that this will just unleash more crime. If you don`t go out and overpolice these minor crimes, there will just be an explosion of crime.

MOSBY: So, one of the things that I recognized, as a prosecutor, my ability to shape the criminal justice system, recognizing, as I stated, that these low-level offenses for black people in this country can lead to a death sentence.

So, what I came out and did, it was as a result of the COVID policies, global pandemic. I consulted with public health experts, and we moved to depopulate the jails and the prisons, and we had an experiment. So, for over a year, we basically came out and said, we`re not going to prosecute these low-level offenses, drug possession, prostitution, trespassing, urinating, defecating in public, open container, all of these low-level offenses that have nothing to do with public safety.

And what we found out through the data, we eliminated 1,400 warrants. We dismissed 1,400 cases. And based upon that data, I`m happy to say that what we were able to do was to showcase the drug arrests went down by 80 percent. The number of individuals going in and out of the jails went down by 39 percent.

The recidivism rate, only five of those 1,500 individuals actually recidivated. And our violent crime, unlike 63 of the 66 major municipalities in the country, our violent crime went down 20 percent. And our property crime went down 39 percent.

What we did see a spike in was non-fatal shootings and homicides. And what I have said, based upon the data, is the decline in crime wasn`t attributable to my policies. It was attributable to the leadership and stability in the police department.

But what that data suggests to me was that these low-level offenses -- we - - our crime didn`t go up. Those low-level offenses never had anything to do with public safety. And so we made those policies permanent going forward.

REID: Yes.

And that is a good thing, because I think less interaction for minor crimes, minor stuff would actually produce less death, because there`s just something wrong with policing where people are killing black folks of color -- people of color more.

President Biden issued a tweet tonight, saying: "Today, I`m thinking about Daunte Wright and his family and the pain, anger and trauma that black America experiences every day. While we await a full investigation, we want to know what we could do to move forward, rebuild trust and ensure accountability, as no one is above the law."

Let me quickly play Katie Wright. This is Daunte Wright`s mother on a phone call. She actually gave him the car that he was driving and still had -- and that was he was pulled over in. Take a listen.


KATIE WRIGHT, MOTHER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: He said they pulled him over because he had air fresheners hanging from his mirror.

When the police officer comes back to the window, put him on the phone, and I will give him the insurance.

Then I heard the police officer come to the window and say: "Put the phone down and get out of the car."

And Daunte said: "Why?"

And he said: "We will explain to you when we get out of the car."

Like, minute later, I called, and his girlfriend answered, which was the passenger in the car, and said that he had been shot.


REID: So, Charles Booker, a mother should not have to do that. And here we have another -- it`s happening again.

I understand that you are considering trying to -- you`re already a public official -- you`re already an elected official -- of maybe upgrading to D.C. to see if there`s more that you can do.

Tell me about your plans. Are you -- are you -- well, tell me about your plans.

BOOKER: Well, I listened to the account of what happened.

And all I can think about is my heart breaking for Daunte. His son, his little man, is going to turn 2 around the same time that I`m bringing another baby into the world. My wife and I are bringing a daughter. And her name is going to be Justice, because of the fight that we still have before us.

And when we think about the struggles that we`re facing, and the fact that these challenges are not only real, they`re structural, and they`re generational, and that we need healing right now, and we have to come together across racial divides, across geographical divides, across partisan divides to acknowledge that this is a fight for our future.

I`m committed to that here in Kentucky.

And that is why, today, I emphatically and urgently announced an exploratory committee for U.S. Senate to take a stand to build a movement to finally remove Rand Paul from office, so that we can have leaders in every level of government that give a damn about our lives and will fight for us, not against us, because we all deserve a chance to pursue our dreams and surpass them and to live gainful lives, to be okay in our cars with air freshener in the window, be okay at home at night as we drift to sleep. And know we don`t have to decide between putting food on the table or affording our insulin. We can do deeper work to heal and to actually speak to the changes we need.

And that`s what I want to do by example, committing my life to this work. I believe Kentucky is ready for change, just like this country is. I am going to do my part in it.

REID: Well, we wish you luck. Please keep us up to date on that run. We know the person you`ll be running against said I believe you would have opposed the Civil Rights Act, that would be a change of direction for Kentucky if they change direction politically.

Marilyn Mosby, congrats what you`re doing. I think it is important that public officials like those that have power use it for the good that you are doing. Charles Booker, you`re doing the same. Cedric Alexander, thank you for speaking to us with truth. And we appreciate all three of you.

So, ahead -- cheers -- Republican leaders` kneejerk reaction to Joe Biden`s infrastructure plan and leaves even fellow Republicans face-bombing in disbelief. Stay with us.


REID: With Congress back in session, President Biden is pushing his next big agenda item, a comprehensive infrastructure and jobs package that`s popular with the majority of the American public. Hosting an Oval Office meeting with lawmakers of both parties today, he made clear he would be willing to negotiate the cost of the package in order to win public Republican support. But it was telling that RNC chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel summarily dismissed any prospect of bipartisan cooperation before that meeting even took place.


RONNA MCDANIEL, RNC CHAIRWOMAN: This infrastructure bill is a debacle and Democrats want to ram it through without any cooperation with Republicans, without any discussion, without any compromise. It will decimate our country. It will do nothing to do with infrastructure. It is just a grab bag for Democrats.


REID: Hmm, I see. It is emblematic of the problem that former House Speaker John Boehner has described, that today`s Republican Party is more interested in making noise than passing bills.


JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: I`m a Republican actually, I`m a conservative Republican, but I`m not crazy and then they`ve got, I don`t know, these noisemakers I`ll call them. Ted Cruz, Jim Jordan, I could go down a long list of people more interested in making noise than they are in doing things on behalf of the country. Sometimes I get the idea they`d rather tear the whole system down and start over, because I`ve never seen anything that they were for. I know what they`re against, but I`ve never really seen what they`re for.


REID: Case in point, now former president who is still trolling the country and his party from the comfort of his Florida resort. Speech of the weekend to the RNC was short on policy proposals, long on personal grievance. According to "The Washington Post," he trashed Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell as a dumb SOB. He bad mouthed Dr. Anthony Fauci as being full of crap, and he complained that former vice president Mike Pence did not try to overturn the 2020 election, saying I was so disappointed. In other words, Trump is still spreading lies that led to the January 6th insurrection.

It comes as the "Associated Press" reports on the Pentagon timeline of that day, the timeline that lays bare the inaction by then-President Trump and how the void contributed to slowed response, specifically notes that Mike Pence had to order the military to clear the Capitol because Trump was missing in action.

None of that seems to matter in the GOP as they chart their course for the future, even though Republican donors panned the Trump`s weekend speech as horrible. The party`s leaders just do not have the courage to extricate themselves from his grasp.

And thanks to Trump, the GOP is staking the future of their party on draconian laws to disenfranchise voters like the law in Georgia that potentially criminalized the act of providing food or water to voters waiting in line for hours. Now, Georgia`s genius governor said he feels their pain. The solution, let them eat -- delivery?

That`s next.


REID: Adopting the big lie about the election has become foundational to the Republican Party. Trump sycophants and Republican legislators across the country have introduced nearly 400 restrictive voting laws, predicated on that lie, weaponizing this delusional fantasy that Trump would have won the election were not for those dastardly fake voters in black and diverse precincts. Networks like Fox News, OANN and Newsmax have been fertile breeding grounds for these lies and the people who depend them.

Just take a look at Georgia Governor Brian Kemp defending his state`s new oppressive voting law.


INTERVIEWER: A lot has been made specifically about serving water at polling centers which I think is just ridiculous. First of all, polling centers can still serve water in the state of Georgia. They can have refreshments in the polling centers. People can bring their own water, their own food.

That`s accurate, right?

GOV. BRIAN KEMP (R), GEORGIA: Yeah, absolutely. They can order a pizza. They can order Grub Hub or Uber Eats. The question too, though, that you need to ask, why are voters standing in line that long? Because it`s in Democratic-controlled counties, they need to do a better job of running their elections and moving people through the lines so they`re not standing out there so long. I mean, voters should be furious that that`s the case.


REID: That is spectacle. It`s what the complete capitulation of a political party devoid of ideas looks like.

Joining me now, Mara Gay, member of "The New York Times" editorial board, and David Jolly, former Republican congressman from Florida who is no longer affiliated with the party.

David, you`re in politics. Why do non-white Georgia voters have to wait in line so long? According to Brian Kemp who actually governs in Atlanta where Fulton County is, he says it`s just the Democrats who are not doing a good job.

Here`s why, Georgia Public Radio and ProPublica put this out -- after Shelby versus Holder, Georgia`s voter rolls had grown by 2 million people, yet polling locations were cut statewide by nearly 10 percent. That is when Brian Kemp was secretary of state. Growth has been fueled by younger non- white voters, especially in nine metro counties where four and five new voters were non-white. Those counties have nearly half of the state`s active voters, nearly half.

They have 38 percent of the polling places. The average number of voters packed into each polling location grew by nearly 40 percent after Shelby v. Holder and this law cut the number of drop boxes even further so that more people have to vote in fewer places and the drop boxes are inside, so he two times both as secretary of state and governor are why people have to wait so long.

And he thinks they should just order takeout. Your thoughts?

DAVID JOLLY, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Brian Kemp is a liar, and Brian Kemp tried to play a partisan card that you just dismantled for your audience tonight. Look, you will hear Republicans, particularly Georgia Republicans try to compare the Georgia law to other states. They like to compare it to Delaware because that`s President Biden`s state, other states around the country.

But the bottom line question, Joy, is that under the new Georgia law, is it easier or harder to vote in Georgia this year than it was last year, and the answer is it`s harder. It`s harder to get a mail ballot. It`s harder to get your mail ballot counted. It`s harder for local election supervisors to favorably resolve conflicts for their voters.

And very importantly, and you touched on this drop box in the urban corridor of metro Atlanta, the number of drop boxes will drop from 93 or 94 this past election to 23 or 24 in the next election.

REID: Correct.

JOLLY: So when Brian Kemp plays the race card and says this is a Democratic problem in Democratic communities, what he`s saying is black communities. That`s what he`s saying. But it`s a bald-faced lie and he knows it.

REID: And, you know, Mara, it is -- I feel like what these Republicans are doing is half trying to stymie and throw up, you know, road blocks in front of voters of color and younger voters but also it`s GOTV. We`re going to double the number of drop boxes for your white voters in rural county where you wait like two minutes to vote, and we`re going to make people in Fulton County have to order a pizza they`re going to be there so long, so they will make sure you win.

I feel like part of this is trying to tell white voters, to be blunt, we will guarantee that you will win. Now, will you vote?

MARA GAY, THE NEW YORK TIMES EDITORIAL BOARD MEMBER: I can`t disagree with you, but I also think it serves the purpose of confusing voters, especially new voters who maybe don`t have long tradition of showing up at the polls. But that barrier is being to be very difficult.

I mean, what the Democratic party has done in Georgia is find new voters. Those aren`t necessarily what you would consider prime voters yet, right? They may become that, but that means that those are voters who vote because somebody came and knocked on their door. They vote because they had an extra hour after they pulled a second shift and somebody convinced them to do so.

So these are people who often case, not always, are living in poverty or maybe they`re first time voters. It`s not easy for them to vote. We act as though it`s a civic duty, and it`s an equal opportunity. We know it`s not. It`s not the case.

In most civilized countries, you`re able to vote on a holiday, OK?

REID: Yeah.

GAY: In this country, we make it very difficult. And it`s not just Georgia, I think part of the frustration that I have is that, in fact, because of the failure of this country to secure the vote throughout the United States, these Georgia officials can cherry-pick examples of things that aren`t working elsewhere. And so you find a little bit of a kernel of truth, and they go ahead and lie just like David said.

I mean, the bottom line here is that every bit of attention, not just from the Democratic Party, but from those invested in democracy needs to be on making sure that we secure the right of every person in Georgia and elsewhere in this country who wants to vote and is able to do so. It`s going to require grassroots effort that we haven`t seen before, and I really, I think that`s something that we need to focus on now because you cannot rely on local officials to do the right thing, particularly when we have a situation where so few communities across the country have local journalism.

Now that we`re in that situation, it`s even more important. Nobody is watching the shop.

REID: Absolutely. And if you`re playing keep away with voters, over here, and jump through this hoop, it`s trying to basically run out the clock by making it so confusing that hopefully only their voters will understand the system. It`s really -- it`s pathetic because it means that they know they cannot win with younger and diverse audiences. They know they can`t compel them so we`ll make it hard.

Let`s go to the state of Florida, David, we love to have you come on and zing my former state and your current state. What is happening? I mean, Matt Gaetz apparently couldn`t even get Trump to hang out with him. At least for CNN, he`s denying it, and say, oh, no, I didn`t have a problem getting near Trump.

But apparently, even he`s like, who`s that guy? So, I mean, and you got all of these people lining up for his seat. Is he still going to be in congress, do you think, after 2022?

JOLLY: I don`t think so. Most Florida Republicans are looking past Matt Gaetz tonight assuming his political career ends in an indictment or resignation. The investigation is spreading throughout Tallahassee, Joy, the state capitol. You`re seeing lobbyists now being touched by it, Republican donors touched as well.

But the refusal of Trump to meet with Matt Gaetz is probably the biggest blow to baby Gaetz`s ego and here`s why, what it says that Donald Trump and Matt Gaetz never had a personal relationship. Donald Trump used Matt Gaetz for four years for his own purposes and when Matt Gaetz needs Donald Trump, Donald Trump has no interest in Matt Gaetz.

So, I think the most damming part for Matt Gaetz and for all of his MAGA followers is the admission, the acknowledgment right now, this week, that there`s no relationship between Matt Gaetz and Donald Trump, none.

REID: It`s what you in a reggae song will call one way love, right? Because Donald Trump loves to use the Republican Party for what he wants and he fundraises off of them, and he makes money off of them. He don`t love them.

They`re going to figure it out. His voters, his politician friends, he`s like he`s using you all. He`s getting paid. He`s having a great time.

He`s sitting at home, eating cheese burgers, saying don`t drink Coca-Cola while he`s slurping a Diet Coke with his cheeseburger. He don`t love you all.

Thank you, Mara Gay and David Jolly.

That`s tonight`s REIDOUT.

"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.