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Transcript: The ReidOut, 10/29/21

Guests: Pramila Jayapal, Dana Milbank, Kimberle Crenshaw, Tamron Hall


Biden meets with Pope Francis ahead of European summit. Biden announces new framework for Build Back Better. Progressives withhold support for $1 trillion infrastructure bill, demand social and climate initiatives. Progressives demand human infrastructure investments. Some Progressive priorities cut from Build Back Better. Fox News host blasts GOP Representative Liz Cheney as screechy little politician. Fox Nation to air controversial 1/6 documentary.


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: I`m thrilled to have you, Barbara B., part of our physical return to fallbacks. And, (INAUDIBLE), it`s your first time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my first time.

MELBER: Not your last time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yo, man, you don`t get that grin with me, man. If I had to come, I had to come too for you. All right, I appreciate you having me here. I have my good clothes.

MELBER: You guys look great together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this is cable news, man.

MELBER: That`s what it is. All right, I`ve got to go. I`ve got to give it to Joy. Thanks to everyone. That`s THE BEAT. "THE REIDOUT" with Joy Reid starts now.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: How are you doing, Ari. Have a great weekend. A really great conversation, cheers, Happy Halloween.

All right, good evening, everyone, and Happy Halloween eve, eve. We`ve got a lot to get to in the next hour, including the dangerous new lows over at Fox News and the rotten dealings of Rupert Murdoch`s news empire. And I`ll be speak with Kimberly Crenshaw, a leader scholar of critical race theory, about Glenn Youngkin`s closing message of banning books and protecting kids from learning about history.

But we begin tonight with this image. Joe Biden is a devote Catholic, only the second in our nation`s history to become president, the first, of course, being JFK. And today, Biden met with Pope Francis at the Vatican. And listen to what was discussed.


REPORTER: Did he address the cuts to climate in Build Back Better?


REPORTER: What did you discuss about climate and Build Back Better with him?

BIDEN: We had a half an hour -- about the need and the moral responsibility we have to deal with this.


REID: Yesterday, President Biden announced a framework on a pair of spending bills, including an impressive $555 billion to combat climate change. As The Atlantic pointed out, even after all of the accommodations to Senators Manchin and Sinema, the final bill will still represent the biggest concentration of new and expanded federal initiatives since President Lyndon B. Johnson passed those great society programs in the mid- 1960s.

But here is the thing, what Biden is trying to do is ambitious. It essentially amounts to an FDAR plus Eisenhower plus LBJ plus Obama moon shot all at once. But the two bills being discussed are not created equal. On one side, the bipartisan bill is a much needed upgrade to America`s infrastructure. That`s the Eisenhower part. It will create jobs and, as Biden has said, help us to be more competitive, far more competitive.

But by itself, it will leave a lot of people out, much like FDRs new deal largely left black people out in order to appease Southern Dixiecrat senators. And Eisenhower`s highways mowed down black communities. And so the greatness of those achievements, and they were was great, was not shared greatness for all Americans.

While an entire white team was behind the bipartisan bill, with Kyrsten Sinema supplying the wine, it`s Biden`s Build Back Better bill that adds the LBJ-Obama part of the equation. It`s that bill that will go much further in helping people of color, of those in poverty because it is, as Biden used to call it, human infrastructure, the kind of help that goes to the disproportional number of women, especially women of color who happen to be overrepresented in industries like home health care and are more likely than their white counterparts to have to change their jobs due to child care with low income single parents, again, being disproportionately women of color, who, by the way, also happen to be the Democratic base that voted Biden and this slim Democratic majority into power.

The first round of child tax cuts, for instance, the child tax credit payments, already lifted millions of kids out of poverty. While the credit is extended for a year, it could save millions of kids from hungry this year. The housing money will make a huge difference for the 30 percent of black renters who paid more than half, half their income in rent in 2019. And the climate portion of the bill is so essential because who will get hurt first by climate change when the water levels rise and the floods and the fires intensify? Indigenous people, people of color.

Now, the bill just has to pass. That`s it. And it might have been dead in its tracks if progressives hadn`t -- had folded and voted for the bipartisan infrastructure bill yesterday. Congresswoman Cori Bush made it clear on this show last night saying Congress would not truly represent the American people, all of the American people, if they voted only for infrastructure.


REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): If we`re only talking about the bipartisan infrastructure package, we`re going to make sure that we set up white men. We`re going to make sure we set up white men. Will some people of color get help? Yes. But we`re basically setting up white men, but we`re leaving out immigrants, black women, brown women, our native community. We`re leaving out so many others that are part of that other human infrastructure piece. And I won`t do it. I won`t do it. I feel like that`s what happened to me before.


REID: The progressive caucus is doing their party a service, let`s just be clear.


Because Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, without a second thought, leave out of the victory are the very people Democrats will desperately need next year to save their majority and with it to save our democracy. But it remains to be seen. Will Democrats get this done and not leave anyone behind? Will they not only fight for those who entrusted them in power but also be seen fighting for them so that they can to earnestly ask for their votes again in the midterms?

Joining me now is Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington, Chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. And, Madam Chairman, thank you so much for being here. It`s always great to talk with you.

There is a Politico piece out that talks about what went wrong among the caucus members and Ron Klain at the White House, as well as the president, as well as the speaker. I`m just going to read a little bit of it. It says that, as Biden prepared for the high-stakes meeting with House Democrats on Thursday, yourself, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal made an urgent plea on a call with White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain, do not send the president to pressure liberals to vote Thursday on the Senate infrastructure bill without a more progressive social spending bill that`s fully done.

What happened next is a dizzying fall of dominos. Biden did not directly ask House Democrats to pass this bipartisan infrastructure bill leaving Pelosi, Speaker Pelosi, to make the request. Then Jayapal`s progressives dug in against the infrastructure vote that the speaker wanted to tee up using the president`s lack of request for cover.

Can you comment as much as you can on who is putting pressure on your caucus to essentially abandon, even if they claim temporarily, the human infrastructure bill that would help so many black and brown communities and just give up and vote for the other bill? Who is putting that pressure on the caucus?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Well, Joy, it`s great to see you. Look, I`m not going to comment on any of the discussions. I will just say that there is a lot of pressure to pass the infrastructure bill, from the White House, from constituents, from different interests that will benefit from the infrastructure bill. We`re not contesting that.

What we are saying is what you said at the beginning, that the Build Back Better act is 85 percent of the president`s agenda and we`re not going to leave people behind. It is the part that is the equity piece, frankly, of the agenda. It is also, by the way, the part that has the biggest climate investment. I mean, there are some good things in the infrastructure bill, there are some things we don`t like in it but the reality of what is going to actually help us take on climate change is in Build Back Better.

The 600 billion, I mean, it`s really stunning what we`ve been able to fight for and win with the president`s help and negotiation, 600 billion into the care economy. Joy, you know who that is. That`s women, that`s a lot of people of color, immigrants that are going to get these jobs that will be good paying jobs and, of course, families across the country that are going to benefit from universal child care, pre-K, home and community-based care. This is really, really significant, and, of course, the child tax credit, as you mentioned.

And so our caucus has been, you know, frankly just really committed to delivering the entirety of the president`s agenda and we understand the pressures on the White House and we understand the pressures on the speaker and we understand the pressures on our frontline members but our belief was that if we could just continue, you know, to not leave anybody behind and to push for those two bills together, we would get them.

And we are so close, Joy. I know people feel like it`s been going on for a long time, but actually the only serious negotiation only started happening about three and a half weeks ago with these two senators when we actually said we need to make sure both of these things pass.

And so now, I would say I can see the end. I think it is coming very soon. The progressive caucus enthusiastically endorse framework that the president laid out that you put up on the screen and said that we are all in for this framework, where now we have text, which is what we had asked for. We`re looking at that 1,500 pages. And pretty soon, we`re going to get ready to pass both the infrastructure bill and the Build Back Better Act out of the House, and send it over to -- the infrastructure bill will go to the president to sign and the Build Back Better Act will go to the Senate to get all 50 senators on board.

REID: And I say this not in a partisan way, but in a -- Democrats are the only game in town to save democracy way. I feel like we`re at an 1877 compromise moment, you know, because the compromise that was made back then, which was the idea is we could heal the country but we could do it at the expense of the formerly enslaved. And we can throw them over the side because for the greater good.


And I wonder if your colleagues understand with elections in New Jersey and Virginia, you know, what is happening in Georgia with redistricting, that if people of color are told, once again, as Dr. King talked about wait, always told you have to wait for anything to come to you. But we`re going to make sure we make whole the largely white-owned contracting firms that are going to really do great in the infrastructure bill that have the airport reconstruction contracts, that already get the road side contracts to do infrastructure and you all have to wait, do they understand that they will tank themselves at the polls next year? Because people of color are not going to be told over and over again that they have to wait.

JAYAPAL: I think that people operate too much from fear. And there was this fear that, oh, if you push and fight for the Build Back Better Act, then we`re going to lose the infrastructure bill. And, actually, what I said to all of our members is, I know you don`t love the infrastructure bill but, listen, we got to vote for that and if we -- you know, but tie it to the build back better act.

Let`s everybody vote for all of these things. There may be some things we don`t like in infrastructure, there are other people who don`t like things in Build Back Better. Let`s just come together and deliver all of this. Because if we don`t energize our black and brown voters who delivered us these majorities, our indigenous voters who delivered us these majorities, if we don`t energize young people with a significant investment in climate, if we don`t energize women with an actual investment in care. Because let`s be clear, those infrastructure jobs are great but the Build Back Better Act actually produces more jobs. And while 90 percent of the jobs in infrastructure are for men, primarily white men, the jobs in the Build Back Better Act are for -- many of them are for women and for women of color.

So that has been our -- look, we kept our eyes on the prize. We`re like we can do both. We`re not going to lose anything. Let`s not operate from fear. Let`s operate from a place of belief that we can do both and, yes, we will fight for the thing that is a little bit harder that is not bipartisan, but is a bigger package and is so consequential. Because when we do that, Joy, that`s what is going to energize black, brown, indigenous, young, poor, working class families to believe that Democrats will fight for them. And that`s what I think we`re going to get done and we`re going to get it done very soon.

So, people should just relax. It will be okay. We are going to get there and we`re not leaving anybody behind.

REID: I wish I had more time with you. I want to talk to you about the Supreme Court. There are so many other things but we are out of time. But I will say that, what you said, that last bit you said, I hope that everyone internalizes that. No one ever followed a leader who led from fear. Fear is not a leadership quality. And so if the Democratic Party appears fearful, they cannot be surprised if people don`t want to follow. It`s boldness and bravery and be seen fighting, that`s what gets your folks behind you. That`s just my little soapbox. I will get off of it and allow you to have a wonderful weekend. Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, thank you.

Up next on THE REIDOUT, okay, well, how low is Rupert Murdoch willing to go, green lighting Tuckum`s false flag documentary, pushing Trump`s lies and fueling vaccine resistance.

Plus, Glenn Youngkin blowing all the dog whistles in the final week of his campaign for Virginia governor, targeting white voters whose feelings got hurt or will get hurt if schools dare to discuss racism and slavery.

Also, my good friend, Tamron Hall, is here tonight to talk about her new novel that shines a light on how the media covers missing black children or doesn`t.

And on this Halloween weekend, we bring you the absolute scariest, the substance of my spooky nightmares.

THE REIDOUT continues after this.



REID: Arguably the greatest threat to our democracy continues in its quest to rot this country out from the outside. No, no, not the Republican Party this time. I`m talking about Fox News. Tuckums Carlson, the new prep school Alex Jones, is defending his January 6th fake-umentary. Last night, he whinged about Liz Cheney`s assertion that he`s spreading the same lies that provoked the insurrection and that he should be stopped.


TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: We work for Fox News. Our bosses don`t pull us off the air just because some screechy little politician doesn`t like what we say.


REID: And that`s actually the problem. The frozen foods scion conveniently omitted the part of Cheney`s tweet tagging false executives and the man who enables it all, Rupert Murdoch, owner of Fox`s parent company, Fox Corporation.

It`s not just the fact that Fox News is giving a nightly platform to our most prominent white nationalists, it`s also the Murdoch Wall Street Journal and its editorial page publishing Mango Mussolini`s unhinged letter, again, vomiting out the big lie and then saying it`s news even if it`s vomited up bananas. Apparently, the editorial page is now just Facebook giving space to deranged Florida retiree`s rant because they can.

Meanwhile, the Anti-Defamation League is asking Murdoch`s spawn and Fox Corp CEO Lachlan Murdoch to cancel Tuckums` propaganda special because his embrace of white supremacist talking points galvanizes extremists and mobilizes their movements. The Murdoch empire is just injecting anti- democratic propaganda straight into the veins of millions people night after night. In their defense, Fox`s own lawyers say, you can`t take anything Tuckums says seriously.

So when Tuckums` white nationalist fever dream airs, keep that in mind and remember the Murdochs are undermining democracy here and around the world. Here is how former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull described the Murdoch effect back in April.


MALCOLM TURNBULL, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF AUSTRALIA: It does not operate as a conventional news or journalistic operation any longer.


Its influence in the United States, in Britain, in all of the countries where it is to be found is now utterly partisan. What Murdoch has delivered, largely through FOX News in the United States, is exactly what Vladimir Putin wanted to achieve with his disinformation campaigns, turning one part of America against another. What they have created is a market for crazy.


REID: I`m joined now by Dean Obeidallah, host of "The Dean Obeidallah Show" on SiriusXM and an MSNBC columnist, and Dana Milbank, political columnist for "The Washington Post."

Thank you, gentlemen, both for being here.

Dean, I`m going to start with you. And I am going to quote Ayman Mohyeldin, and he tweeted the following on Tuckums` upcoming fakumentary.

"Imagine if a Muslim anchor on cable promoted a documentary about 9/11, the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history witnessed around the world, and then implied even in the slightest that it could have been a false flag operation the way Tucker Carlson is doing about January 6, about the January 6 insurrection."

Can you imagine how that would play out for us, please?

DEAN OBEIDALLAH, MSNBC DAILY COLUMNIST: Horrifically. I`d be in a camp somewhere if I was involved with that. I would be deported. And I`m from New Jersey. They would deport me someplace else.

Look, all of this is the same. Even on defending January 6, think about it. Joy, we have talked about it. January 6, the terrorist attack that it was, was a white supremacist terrorist attack. So, of course, Tucker Carlson, who I call Tucker Klansman for years, is defending the attackers by doing this false flag operation.

There`s a reason why David Duke literally, literally praises Tucker Klansman. This is worse than Al-Jazeera after 9/11, what FOX News is. FOX News has become the enemy of our democracy to make a profit. This is horrible. This is going to the core of who we are as a people.

And the idea of defending -- but, then again, Joy, in June, Tucker was talking about the FBI being involved in the attack. He has celebrated the actual terrorists who attacked our Capitol, saying they`re being persecuted. It`s because he`s defending white nationalism and white supremacy.

That`s his brand. And the attackers were his people.

REID: You know, Dana Milbank, Paul Ryan, who`s supposedly a normcore Republican, is on the board of FOX News. He, in theory, would know better.

I mean, I know that all he ever really cared about was getting maximum tax cuts for the super rich. So I get it. That`s all he really does care about. But I wonder, at some point, does there have to be some accountability for the fact that FOX News is -- as Dean said, I watched that little trailer that Tucker put together.

And I said it yesterday. I used to watch for my job those ISIS little mini- films they would make to try to recruit young incels to join ISIS.

They would have the same sort of live action, try to incite, try to excite, like, young men kind of vibe that Tucker is creating in his trailer. We could never do that here. We have a standards and practices department at MSNBC.


REID: There`s no way we could ever get away with that.

How on earth -- I know the FCC has no control over it, but at some point, doesn`t there have to be some accountability for FOX for what they`re spewing?


And the key here is the synergy between the Murdoch empire and the Republican Party. I mean, you mentioned Paul Ryan, but think about it. FOX News largely created Donald Trump as a political force by broadcasting the birther lie. That`s how he got here.

Why are our Republican politicians behaving in such a crazy manner? Well, because they -- FOX News has been teaching their viewers to expect the crazy and it becomes a cyclical thing.

What he has done to the American media landscape is unbelievable. I spent eight happy years at "The Wall Street Journal" before the Murdoch takeover. They still have hard working journalists there. First, they were pressured to go easy on Trump during the campaign. And now you have the editorial page publishing something they know to be a false.

If Murdoch takes this once great newspaper any further down the toilet, I think we`re going to call it "The Wall Street Urinal."


REID: Let me read what Stuart Stevens tweeted about Rupert Murdoch.

He said: "If Rupert Murdoch were applying for American citizenship today, there would be ample evidence to classify him as a domestic threat and deny citizenship. He`s a dangerous man who should be treated as the anti- democratic propagandist he is."

And, Dean, that`s Stuart Stevens, who used to work for Mitt Romney`s campaign.

This guy owns 20th Century Fox. He owns FOX News, "The Wall Street Journal," "The New York Post," HarperCollins publishing, the -- in the U.K., "The Sun," "The Times, "The Sunday Times," the News U.K., and, in Australia, News Corp., Australia, "The Australian."

I mean, this guy has massive assets. And these assets are doing things like doing denialism on the pandemic. This could kill people. Whipping up white nationalism. White Replacement Theory is fine to say on FOX News. That is open white nationalism.


Your thoughts on Mr. Murdoch?

OBEIDALLAH: They -- well, Rupert Murdoch only became a citizen in the 1980s so he could make more profits in the United States of America. That`s why. He`s not an American originally. He is now a naturalized citizen.

We can`t take his citizenship away. I almost wish there was a way, but you can`t do it. I think you can only counter it.

And when you look at -- to me, it goes back to either Rupert agrees with white nationalism, either he is fine with killing his own viewers, or for a profit, he will allow anything to go on the airwaves and anything to go on the pages of "The Wall Street Journal." And that might be even more alarming, what`s going on, and his children running FOX News now.

But you look at Tucker Carlson -- and Dana said it -- this is all a synergy with the GOP, what`s going on. It`s not the big lie. It`s the big loss that`s freaking them out, and it`s a loss demographically as well. And Tucker plays into that.

Look at Texas. They`re an apartheid state. It`s 38 percent white now, and they`re controlling the 57 percent of people of color. And not every white person is a Republican there. The new redistricting map is a racist rag that they wrote there. This is all to keep power.

They are afraid. And Tucker Carlson feeds into that by openly, openly talking about a white supremacist theory, which the ADL called for him to be fired. And Tucker responded saying, F. you to the ADL, literally said F. you to the leader of the ADL.

REID: And, Dana, I mean, whether it`s promoting Viktor Orban, who is a straight-up autocrat, whether it is promoting White Replacement Theory, there is a board over there, I mean, and there are normal journalists over there, like Chris Wallace, who`s operating beside him.

And there are pressures that every single Republican member of Congress has to answer to FOX News and its viewers. And so they become more extreme. Adam Kinzinger is out. He`s redistricting -- redistricted out, but he probably was very clear that he couldn`t survive a primary because he is not in lockstep with whatever it is that Tuckums is saying.

This is radicalizing the Republican Party even further, no?

MILBANK: Well, it`s definitely radicalizing. It`s a primary force for radicalizing the Republican Party.

It is -- look, we don`t believe in conspiracy theories here, but if we were to believe in one, you could look and see that the Build Back Better agenda is going to cost the Murdochs billions of dollars potentially, because it`s actually going after the billionaires in terms of making them pay their fair share.

So politics is war by other means. What are you going to do to destroy Joe Biden, to reduce his credibility, so that he can`t get his agenda through? Why, let`s go ahead and discredit the 2020 election. Let`s pretend that it was a false flag on January 6 perpetrated by Joe Biden. And let`s keep up the drumbeat about socialism and how the vaccine kills you.

It`s hard not to be cynical when you see the damage that these guys are doing to the country.

REID: Yes, I can`t wait until they all become big fans of Ice Cube, because, apparently, he`s not for the vaccine.

So, all of a sudden, people who were denouncing his lyrics in the `80s and `90s are going to suddenly become his biggest fans. So, we will wait for him to be -- you know that that`s going to happen. We know that`s going to happen.

Dean Obeidallah, Dana Milbank, thank you both. Have a happy Halloween.

Still ahead: the battle over "Beloved" and the right`s favorite new punching bag, Critical Race Theory, in the Virginia governor`s race. That nonsense is their closing argument.

We will be right back.




NARRATOR: Let`s turn the clock back a few years to Lee Atwater, a Republican operative who used race to win the elections.

LEE ATWATER, REPUBLICAN OPERATIVE: You start out in 1954 by saying (EXPLETIVE DELETED). By 1968, you can`t say (EXPLETIVE DELETED). That hurts you. It backfires. So, you say stuff like forced busing, states` rights and all that stuff.

NARRATOR: Like Atwater, Glenn is using coded language, because, in 2021, he can`t get away with saying what he really wants to say.

So, if you see when you`re talking about Critical Race Theory...

GLENN YOUNGKIN (R), VIRGINIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Critical Race Theory. Critical Race Theory. Critical Race Theory.

NARRATOR: ... make sure to let him know he`s not fooling anyone.


REID: The coded language of Critical Race Theory isn`t so coded anymore, is it?

We know the CRT boogeyman is a euphemism for anything pertaining to race or history that makes any white parent or child feel uncomfortable, including Toni Morrison`s "Beloved," a seminal work of American fiction on the historical trauma of slavery.

Banning such content is so prominent in Republican Glenn Youngkin`s campaign, you would think this race was really between Youngkin and Toni Morrison, the late Toni Morrison.

Well, sorry, Glenn. That is a fight that you`re never going to win.

Joining me now is Kimberle Crenshaw, leading scholar on Critical Race Theory and executive director of the African-American Policy Forum.

I`m so glad that you were available to be here this Friday evening.

This dog whistle, I feel like Lee Atwater -- that Lee Atwater ad is sort of a perfect, sort of chef`s kiss explanation of what`s going on here, because Critical Race Theory, here`s how Heritage Foundation has redefined what Critical Race Theory is, even though we know that`s not what it is.

"It classifies individuals into groups of oppressors and victims. It`s a philosophy that`s infecting everything from politics and education to the workplace and the military," basically, anything that makes anybody white feel uncomfortable.

What do you make of this Youngkin strategy of fighting Toni Morrison?

KIMBERLE CRENSHAW, CO-FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AFRICAN-AMERICAN POLICY FORUM: Well, Joy, first of all, I`m just so happy to have this opportunity to talk to you about this.

Of course, I have been champing at the bit to have a conversation about what they have done to Critical Race Theory. We have been talking about this for a year. We have been telling people, this is coming. We have been telling people that this is -- this is a distraction that`s working.

They`re doing a bait and switch. They don`t care about Critical Race Theory. They don`t know what Critical Race Theory is. But they`re telling us what they want to get rid of. They`re telling us what the target is.


And now that they have gone after Toni Morrison, Toni Morrison, one of the most celebrated authors of the 20th century, Toni Morrison, they`re going after Toni Morrison. They`re going after so many authors.

And why? They have told us why. They don`t like ideas around social justice. They don`t like ideas around diversity. They don`t like ideas that cause us to confront the realities of our past, including enslavement, including manifest destiny, including genocide.

They have told their followers, if you see any of these concepts in your children`s material or anywhere else -- and they have listed them -- then go at it.

REID: Yes.

CRENSHAW: So it`s not a secret anymore what they`re going after. It is the entire social racial justice agenda.

REID: And Christopher Rufo admitted that. He literally was at the Claremont saying, I don`t even care about this stuff. I don`t even know what it is. I don`t care about it. He`s like, this is going to mobilize our voters. Duh.

Like, he said it out loud. And people still don`t get it.

Here`s some of the books that were -- that "The Texas Tribune" reports Texas wants to have banned. There`s eight -- well, we don`t have a list of the individual books, but it`s 850 titles that are in their libraries and classrooms.

I mean, they`re talking about anything that talks about Texas history, anything on race and sexuality. You`re right. It`s very open.

Do you understand why Democrats just don`t say that, just don`t come out and say, these people are against all you all? They are against anything that`s about black and brown people and LGBT people being equal. They don`t want to hear that.

CRENSHAW: Well the problem is this.

Our side tends to take some time to think things through. We don`t rush to judgment. We don`t believe lies. But we are up against an organized faction that has created big lies out of the election, big lies out of the notion of voter fraud, big lies out of the notions of the environment, and because, I mean, as your earlier segment just pointed out, people are used to this diet.

So it`s easy to distract people from what`s really happening, and force them to be -- express themselves as people with grievances. I think many people really believe it, because they`re used to listening to this stuff. The ones that don`t believe it are the Christopher Rufos, the ones that know that what they`re going after is not the course Critical Race Theory.

REID: Right.

CRENSHAW: They`re going after critical ideas about race in our American society.

And it is time, Joy, for our -- for our constituents to be apprised of the fact that this is basically taking away our heritage, taking away the country that we are working so hard to build. We have been talking to parents all across the country. They don`t know what Critical Race Theory is. But they do know that they want the next generation not to be bedeviled with these problems.

And they realize the way forward is to learn about our past, so we don`t repeat it.

REID: Yes.

I mean, they have basically rebranded Critical Race Theory as anything that criticizes historical white people, like white people in history.

Let`s talk about, actually, what Critical Race Theory is for, which was to talk about the way the legal system disadvantages people of color historically, and it`s built that way.

There`s a judge who was in this -- one of these January 6 prosecutions, "Washington Post" reported, and this is what this judge said. He called it almost schizophrenic, the prosecutions of these people, saying: "These rioters were not mere protesters. No wonder parts of the public in the U.S. are confused about whether what happened on January 6 at the Capitol was simply a petty offense of trespassing with some disorderliness or shocking criminal conduct that represented a grave threat to American democratic norms," said this judge.

Her name is Beryl Howell.

We really are literally seeing people who broke into our Capitol waving the treasonous Confederate Flag and chanted "Hang Mike Pence" getting light sentences, right, when you see people of color being locked up for life for selling weed.

Isn`t that what Critical Race Theory is about? It`s about these disparities in the justice system.

CRENSHAW: Well, that, Joy, and so much more.

But to really understand what`s going on here, we just have to go back to the most significant moment in our history when violence was being used to pursue a racial project and what happened to those people. And I`m talking about the Civil War, right?

REID: Yes.

CRENSHAW: We`re talking about a group of people who took up arms against the United States because they wanted to fight to keep their slaves.


They basically got a time-out, right? They killed hundreds of thousands of people, right, the bloodiest war that we have been in. And they basically got a time-out.

And to add insult to the injury, in less than a generation, our president was willing to say that it was a quarrel forgotten. So, basically, this story about taking up arms against the United States has now been reframed as the lost cause. And the lost cause is what has been in our textbooks for so long.

The Daughters of the Confederacy, they might have lost the battle, but they won the war because they were able to tell the story. And the story that they told was that this was not about -- the Civil War was not about keeping slaves, the Civil War was fought over honor.

So what we`re dealing with right now, both in the cases that you`re talking about and in the debate about what`s being taught in schools, is the modest effort to reflect back on what has happened, so that the lies that were told about the past are now clarified, so everybody can understand what happened the last time lies were told, and our country took up arms against itself.

REID: That`s right.

CRENSHAW: My worry is that, because people don`t know that history, and now a whole faction is trying to make sure they never will know that history...

REID: There you go.

CRENSHAW: ... we might be in a position five years from now when people are saying you can`t teach what actually happened January 6.

REID: And they are trying to do that.

Kimberle Crenshaw, they are trying to do that right even as we speak.

Thank you so much. You are just the right person that I wanted to talk to about this. So, thank you, thank you, thank you. Have a wonderful weekend. Thank you for all that you do.

OK, up next, award-winning journalist Tamron Hall joins us to talk about her new novel about the mysterious disappearance of two young black girls in Chicago. She`s coming up right next after this short break.

Stay with us.



REID: Tens of thousands of black girls and women go missing in the U.S. every year. But you probably don`t know that, because their stories rarely get national attention.

The tragic case of Gabby Petito, by contrast, attracted nationwide coverage and highlighted the fact that people who don`t look like her don`t receive the same attention when they go missing.

Here on this show, we have tried to shine a light on the stories of missing people of color.

Tamron Hall, my friend and former colleague and the Emmy Award-winning host of "The Tamron Hall Show," has written a brand-new crime novel called "As the Wicked Watch."

And it touches on that very topic. The main character, a black woman journalist, investigates the disappearance of two black girls in Chicago.

And Tamron Hall joins me now.

And I love the fact this is our pre-Hollywood show. This is the book, "As the Wicked Watch."

As, Tamron, my favorite thing about this book, other than the fact that you wrote it and it`s your first novel, is that it has this subtitle, this piece down here, which I don`t know if you guys can see. Let me show you guys on the bigger box here, on the marketing box which you get if you know Tamron Hall, "The First Jordan Manning Novel," which tells me that this is going to be a character who is going to live with us for a long time.

Tell me about Jordan Manning. Who is she?

TAMRON HALL, AUTHOR, "AS THE WICKED WATCH: THE FIRST JORDAN MANNING NOVEL": I hope she does live with us for a very long time.

Honestly, Joy, I was the kid who had the Nancy Drew box set under my bed. And well before the pandemic -- you had it too, I know. We`re kindred spirits.

REID: I had it too.


HALL: And I had the box set under my bed. I never imagined I would write a novel, certainly not a series.

But there was so much I felt that Jordan Manning, the character, could bring. I actually sold this series before the pandemic, met with huge publishing houses. And one after the other told me that no book exists with a black female protagonist who is a crime solver, who`s an investigator, in a wide spectrum.

And when I heard that this character does not exist in the literary world of thrillers, it was inspiring for me to keep going.

REID: And this is so personal for you. I know that you, tragically, did lose your older sister to a crime of domestic violence. So you take very personally these stories of loss. And you do such a brilliant job in interviewing victims on your show, on "The Tamron Hall Show."

Talk about this issue of missing black girls and trying to get their stories out, because that is what this incredible crime fighter Jordan Manning is trying to do.

HALL: Right. She is following this case.

But, really, Joy, it was inspired by something that happened to me in 1997. I was in Dallas and then moved to Chicago to be a reporter. 1997, I covered the death of an 11-year-old child. Then I moved to Chicago, another 11- year-old child in that same year. She was black. The child in Texas was white.

And I watched how those cases were handled very differently. So this inspired the case that Jordan Manning, the character, is following. Now, I could never have imagined that, exactly when this book was released, you would go viral for repeating the words of someone we both admire greatly, Gwen Ifill, who talked about missing white woman syndrome.

I turned on my phone. You were going, trending. And I thought to myself that we have to be kidding ourselves. I have written a whole novel and you`re going to act like you are surprised that this term, A, exists and that we shouldn`t all be concerned about it.

So I have this character who is a character that I imagine I could or wish I had been. Jordan Manning is speaking up in newsrooms I did not speak up in. Jordan Manning is taking on an establishment that I did not, because we know the consequences of that, right? You speak out, you ultimately suffer the consequence of being fired.

And so here Jordan Manning, this character that I have created, much bolder than I was, far less than apologetic that I felt I needed to be, as she follows the leads and has this real conversation -- in fact, there`s a passage where she says, when you say girl next door, who are you talking about? Because the girl next door doesn`t look the same. The girl next door looks like the neighborhood she lives in.


And on Friday -- excuse me -- on Monday on my talk show, we actually have Jelani Day`s mother on my show to talk about how that felt to literally plead with the news media to follow her son`s disappearance.

And bold hosts and journalists like yourself who inspired Jordan Manning, my character, said, this is 2021. We`re not going to be silent, as we were with the Bradley sisters in Chicago, who`ve been missing now for decades, with no answer for their family.

REID: Amen. Amen. Amen. Jordan Manning is a hero, the hero that we need right now.

But so are you, Tamron Hall. You know how much I admire you, my friend. This is exciting. I`m so excited about this. I hope everybody will get into this, the series. This is just the first one.

Thank you, Tamron Hall. Really appreciate you, and congratulations.

HALL: Thank you. Thank you.

REID: And coming up next -- thank you.

And coming up next: Turn down all the lights and get ready for a very special, very spooky Halloween take on the "Absolute Worst." The "Absolute Scariest" is straight ahead. Don`t miss it.



REID: OK, now here is where I normally read somebody for filth in what we lovingly call the "Absolute Worst."

But since it`s nearly Halloween, let`s change it to "The Absolute Scariest."


REID: And do you want to know the substance of my spooky nightmares? Come closer. Closer. Closer.

It`s not ghosts or goblins or things that go boo. It`s what America could look like in January 2025. Just picture it, an even older, weirder Donald Trump, buoyed by Republicans in red states who gamed the voting system, Texas-style, in states like Florida, Georgia, Arizona, and more, so that they decide who wins, no matter what the voters do, decided that he had enough guarantees of victory to run for president again.

And, just as happened in 2020, he loses, because he`s a loser, and most young people and people of color can`t stand him. But it doesn`t matter, because Republicans have put their own people in place in state election boards, and they have enough governors to reject Joe Biden`s electors this time.

And so Trump returns to office, but, this time, he`s unconstrained because there are no more American democratic elections, with his own little puppet, puppet Kevin, as speaker, whom he can dangle and fling to his delight, and his cruel wicked henchmen, Grim Reaper Mitch McConnell, back in charge in the Senate, each man more desperate to curry Trump`s favor than ever before.

And his hooligans firmly in control of the Republican Party nationwide, there is no stopping him. Having returned to power after the Republican- rigged 2022 midterms, McConnell refused to allow President Biden to name anyone to the Supreme Court. So now they get to make it 7-2 for the far right if one of the current members becomes a ghostly incarnation.

With Roe vs. Wade already long gone, women have no rights over their own bodies, and the bounties are flowing, the right to vote gone. Americans have but one choice, Republicans. Migrant children back in cages, COVID-19 running freely throughout the population, killing at will, while Trump`s new vice president, Ron DeSantis, laughs gleefully as he counts his Regeneron stock.

But America`s new president for life doesn`t laugh. Oh, no. Denied power and Twitter for so long, he is on a rampage, using the IRS to attack his enemies and to punish and seize control of social media companies to make them his own personal mouthpiece and to give his children corporate jobs.

Sorry, Gettr, you`re just too weird to be included. And if you think it`s racist and fascist out here now, oh, just wait until all of Trump`s monsters are unleashed. Picture the Proud Boys and the 3 Percenters and the Boogaloo Boys with real power, Trump`s own personal militia, racist sheriffs and police free to commit untold violence against anyone they please, all in the name of Trump.

The land ravaged, plowed for every drop of oil and coal until it all just burns. If you`re LGBT, especially T, be afraid. Your rights are on the knife`s edge. Be quiet. Shh. Perhaps they won`t see you if you hide. Books banned or burned. Only the extolling of white heroes will be allowed.

Hide your Toni Morrison, hide your W.E.B. Du Bois, hide your 1619 Project, if you want them to survive, because America won`t be America anymore. It will be theirs.


REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): And I want to fire Dr. Anthony Fauci.


AUDIENCE: Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!

GREENE: Did you hear that, Tony? They want you locked up.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): On January the 6th, I objected during the Electoral College certification. Maybe you heard about it.


SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): These radical liberals, they want to erase our history. They want to replace it with their crazy Marxist theories.

REP. MADISON CAWTHORN (R-NC): And call your congressman. And feel free. You can lightly threaten them and say, you know what, if you don`t start supporting election integrity, I`m coming after you.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): My God, a parent did a Nazi salute at a school board because he thought the policies were oppressive.

General Garland is doing a Nazi salute at an elected official, is that protected by the First Amendment?




REID: Happy spooky Halloween.

And that`s tonight`s REIDOUT.