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Transcript: The ReidOut, 10/28/21

Guests: Kurt Bardella, Eric Swalwell, Cynthia Miller-Idriss, Susan Rice, Cori Bush


Biden announces new framework for build back better. Progressives demand infrastructure and build back better bills be linked. Biden unveils revamped $1.75 economic plan. Paid family leave, free community college, Medicare expansion and prescription drug reform are out.


ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Thanks for watching "THE BEAT." THE REIDOUT with Joy Reid is up next Hi, Joy.

JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: How you doing, Ari? Have a great evening.

MELBER: You too.

REID: Cheers. All right, good evening, everyone. Well, if you took a snapshot of the country right now, here is what you would see. On the one hand, you have all that war as the American right and the party it has consumed, the Trumpist Republican Party, takes aim at every civic and cultural institution, from whether we live or die from COVID to our schools and history and democracy itself, banning books, senators defending Nazi salutes and unhinged anti-vax protests at school boards, and the most popular conservative cable news host going full Alex Jones, promoting a fringe conspiracy theory about the January 6 insurrection being a false flag. So that is all happening and we`re going to get to that later in the show.

But right now, there is also a war on the Democratic side. Today, we saw President Joe Biden declare victory, putting everybody on the spot and announcing a new framework for build back better before he got on a plane and headed to Europe, where he plans on telling everyone that America is back. But the situation on the ground in D.C., as usual, is more complicated than that. At the same time Biden announced his new framework, he also emphasized the importance of passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill, which Speaker Nancy Pelosi was trying to bring to the floor as soon as possible due to the looming expiration of the highway trust fund.

The fate of these two bills were linked, supposedly to make moderates and progressives hold hands and jump together. But as two conservative Democrats, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, have seemed to break that deal, conservatives have made it clear for months that they will not vote for one bill without the other. And without firm support from Manchin and Sinema on Biden`s framework, they are holding the line.

At this point, it`s a matter of trust. In a statement today, the progressive caucus stressed that while they`re still enthusiastic about the framework, there is too much at stake for working families in our communities to settle for something that can be later misunderstood, amended or abandoned altogether. That is why dozens of our members insist on keeping both bills linked and cannot vote only for one until they can be voted on together. Members of our caucus will not vote for the infrastructure bill without the build back better act. And they prevailed, with the House voting on a transportation assessment tonight and adjourning until next week to work on bipartisan infrastructure bill and build back better.

Now, the White House has expressed confidence, right, in having 50 votes for the framework and Manchin and Sinema seem open to the bill, with Manchin saying he agreed on the price tag, and Sinema saying she looks forward to getting it done in meeting today with Progressive Caucus Chair Pramila Jayapal. Earlier today, President Biden stressed how important this legislation is, telling the Democratic Caucus this morning that, quote, I don`t think it`s hyperbole to say that the House and Senate majorities and my presidency will be determined by what happens in the next week. And he made it clear to the country what a BFD this plan is.


JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: After months of tough and thoughtful negotiations, I think we have a historic -- I know we have a historic economic framework. It`s a framework that will create millions of jobs, grow the economy, invest in our nation and our people.

I ran for president saying it was time to reduce the burden on the middle class, to rebuild the backbone of this nation, working people and the middle class. I couldn`t have been any clearer from the moment I announced my candidacy. That`s why I wrote these bills in the first place and took them to the people. I campaigned on them. And the American people spoke.


REID: Indeed, it is a very ambitious proposal, with $555 billion dedicated to climate and clean energy provisions. It also includes universal pre-K, child and elder care, housing, an extension of the child tax credit as well as expanded health care, including in the states that refuse to expand Medicaid. But paid family leave, free community college, expanded Medicare and prescription drug reform didn`t make it. So those trust issues are real.

For the latest, I`m joined by Ali Vitali, Capitol Hill Correspondent for NBC News. And, Ali, just confirm for us, because what it looks like today - - earlier today, you saw Senator Bernie Sanders come out and say he didn`t think there ought to be a vote on the infrastructure bill until there was more than just a framework for the build back better bill. And it looks like despite the fact that we heard earlier that there was going to be a vote on the infrastructure bill, that didn`t happen.


It looks like the progressives prevailed on this. What are we hearing? What are you hearing from inside the caucus, the Senate and House caucuses?

ALI VITALI, NBC NEWS CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: That they feel that they prevailed on this. Progressives who I have spoken to have been saying for weeks now that they`ve had one simple demand, which is to continue to keep these two bills coupled so they don`t lose the leverage on the larger social spending package. Certainly, there were conversations about if a framework would be enough. After it was released this morning, it was clear in conversations with lawmakers that a simple framework wasn`t enough because of the trust deficits that you were talking about both between the House and the Senate, but also between moderates and progressives. That`s what we`ve continued to hear.

And I imagine you can see over my shoulder, Joy, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, who leads that Progressive House Caucus, is talking with reporters now. I imagine that she is reiterating something similar to what we`re talking about, which is that they have endorsed and they voted to endorse as a caucus the framework that was released this morning while continuing to say that they need all Democrats in the House and all 50 Democrats in the Senate to assure that they are going to be able to move forward on these two bills in tandem.

We saw today, though, and what sources have said to me -- go ahead.

REID: Go on.

VITALI: What I`ve heard, Joy, from sources in the Senate and in the House, they sort of feel lying they`ve been on a hamster wheel on this, that they`ve been working really hard, but that they looked around today and they ended up still in the same place. What this vote did in the house is it sort of kicked the can down the road, bought them a little more time. But there is some optimism that at some point in November they will finally be able to prevail on this.

I would also just point out that while a lot of people in the House are looking over at the Senate wondering where Manchin and Sinema are on this, Jayapal met with Sinema and she didn`t say she got assurances with her, but she did say it was good meeting and that they`re going to keep working. On the Manchin front, he was mum pretty much all day. I remember catching up with him as he was leaving the Senate earlier today. He said he was okay on that $1.7 trillion price tag, but he just tweeted a statement now where he said he is reading through the bill text and he hopes to keep working in good faith. When you start to hearing words like good faith, working, continuing, in progress, they are not close to being done.

REID: Yes, that is exactly what that sounds like. Ali Vitali, great job, thank you very much. I really appreciate you.

Joining me now is Ambassador Susan Rice, Director of President Biden`s Domestic Policy Council. She has been a key player in the negotiations. And so thank you for being here, Susan Rice.

You just heard our reporter, Ali Vitali, say that there are still trust issues that remain here, that you have a -- you now have text that has been released. I was starting to read through it before the show but you do not have, that I can see, any assurances from Manchin and Sinema that they are going to go along with the original deal, that they are going to support the build back better plan. Has the White House received any assurances whatsoever from Manchin and Sinema that if they -- that they are going to ultimately support the build back better plan?

AMB. SUSAN RICE, BIDEN ADMINISTRATOIN DOMESTIC POLICY ADVISER: Well, hi, Joy, great to be with you. Thank you for having me on.

REID: Sure.

RICE: Let me say this. I`ve been involved in these negotiations for the last many weeks, even months. And I`ve been in meetings with all concerned parties in the Senate, in the House. And what we can say with confidence is that we believe this framework has the votes that can pass the Senate and pass the House. We have not said that before. That is a function of the work that we have been doing, the consultations we`ve been doing and most importantly, the leadership and the efforts that the president has exerted with all of these relevant players. So, yes, we are confident in that.

But let me also tell you what I saw today, which is truly extraordinary. I was with the president when he was up at the House Democratic Caucus. He got sustained standing ovations, and they chanted loudly and in unison, vote, vote, vote, vote. and that`s what we`re going to do. We`re going vote. Because what this package is, joy, it`s transformational and historic and it has already garnered since being released today support from every spectrum of our party.

Nobody is arguing about the substance. Everybody agrees that what is in here, universal pre-K, child care, housing, higher education, extension of the child tax credit, incredible provisions to protect our climate are all necessary and worthy. And they agree that we need both these bills, the bipartisan infrastructure framework as well as the build back better agenda. So, I`m confident.

REID: I`m sorry to interrupt you, but, I mean, it`s one thing for the Democratic Caucus to cheer the president. He`s the president. He is the leader of their party but it is quite another thing to say, in general, we like the idea of doing universal pre-K. It`s quite another thing to get Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to say we`re going to vote for it.


Saying this has the votes to pass in theory, sure. But I have seen no evidence -- one moment. I have seen no evidence that publicly stated by Manchin and Sinema that if the transportation bill were to pass, they wouldn`t just leave the build back better bill on side of the road.

So I want to know have there been specific assurances from Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema that they are committed to voting for the bill, just specifically that?

RICE: Joy, I would be crazy to speak for any senator or member of Congress. That`s not my role. I`m here to represent the president of the United States and to speak to the American people. But what I can tell you, and I will speak for myself now, having been in the room with these senators and many others and countless hours of discussions, I am confident that this package can pass the Senate.

And I am confident that once each of the members of Congress and the Senate have the opportunity to do, which is what they all should do, which is their right to do, which is to review the legislative texts and vote on an actual bill, just as they did in the Senate on the framework, the bipartisan infrastructure framework, we`re going to have legislation pass the Congress that is both build back better and the infrastructure frame.

But it`s not realistic to ask any responsible member of Congress or the Senate to commit to something that they haven`t had a chance to fully digest.

REID: Both Manchin and Sinema voted for the framework before, it was $3.5 trillion and then they started to trash it and said they didn`t like pieces of it. And then pieces of it started getting lopped off.

Let me just give you a couple of stats here. There is an A.P. and R.C. poll that shows that people do support what you`ve just talked about. They support what`s in the bill. Health care has high support, 64 percent, education, climate change, child care, paid family leave. People are in favor of it. But then there are the things that didn`t make it.

Kasie Hunt tweeted today from CNN that she is pretty much going to spend -- she believes she`s going to spend the next all the way to the midterms covering suburban women who are turned off by the fact that paid family leave went away. So, we don`t know who she means specifically by that because that -- what does that mean by suburban women, but we`ll see. Then we have public approval of the negotiations. President Biden`s approval rating on this is pretty low, 41 percent don`t like what they have seen, this sort of sausage making they`ve seen.

And I want to give you one more thing to just consider. Here is a Democratic voter in Virginia, very important state to get out the vote for Democrats, and for Biden`s agenda to go forward. Let`s listen to this voter in Virginia.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is so much infighting. I`m not inspired. I`m not inspired by the Democratic Party. All I see is the Democrats fighting and calling each other out and then calling the Republicans out there. Is no discourse anymore. So like what`s the point? No one is listening to each other.

The ugliness coming out of Washington, why would anyone be inspired by politics anymore?


REID: Is the risk here, Susan, that no matter what finally passes, the base of the Democratic Party will be so demoralized and dejected by this process that it will be very difficult to get them to believe that it was a win?

RICE: I don`t think so, Joy. I disagree with that. When mothers and fathers around the country have the ability to send their children to child care and not have it bankrupt them, when they will pay no more than 7 percent of their income if they`re a working middle income family in this country, earning up to $300,000 a year, when they can send their children to universal pre-K, when they can take care of their elderly mother or father in their home and have access to the services to do that with high quality care, when they can tell their children that we`re not leaving our planet to self-destruct, that we`re taking the steps that we finally need to take to put our house in order, create good jobs and address climate change, these are the issues that are tabletop issue, real world issues for people. And when the Democratic Party delivers, which I am fully confident they will, those will be true benefits to the American people. That`s what this is about.

And I have every confidence that what will matter to each of us as citizens and as voters is how our lives has changed. When you have money in your pockets for the child tax credit, that gives you the breathing room to give your kid a summer sports class or to get new shoes or to get a dress to go to the prom, those are the kinds of things that matter in people`s lives, and that is what this legislation will deliver.

REID: Susan rice, thank you very much. I really appreciate you being here to talk this through with us. Thank you. Cheers.

Let`s bring in Congresswoman Cori Bush from Missouri.


She is a member of the Progressive Caucus and a frequent friend of the show.

So, I don`t know if you were able to hear Susan Rice, Representative Bush, but I want the get your take. It feels like the progressives won today in that progressives held the line and said, we are not going to vote for the infrastructure bill if we don`t have the assurances that the build back better bill is going to also pass, that they`re going to stay linked and stay together. In the end, were progressives, were you prepared to vote against the infrastructure bill if it came to the floor?

REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): Absolutely. And I made that very clear before I walked in the meeting this morning, the very first meeting where President Biden was there in that meeting. I walked in saying that I knew that if we didn`t have both bills going together that I would be no, that that would not change. And I want to see a Senate vote. I came out the same way that I went in and I still stand firm, flat-footed right now, saying that if the infrastructure bill came to the floor, I would be an absolute no on it if it is not together with the build back better act.

And the reason is, some have said, well, you know, what about all the great things that are in it? And what I`m saying is we have to help the greatest number of people the quickest. And the way to do that is while we have the House, the Senate and the White House, we need to make sure that we get that done. And if we say that we`re good with just helping a part, helping some people when we know we can help more people, then that`s an error on us. Our title is representatives, so represent all the people.

REID: Let me play for you what Senator Sanders said earlier today very quickly about that House vote that never ended up materializing. Here he is.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): I think before there is a vote in the House on the infrastructure bill, the members of the House have a right to know that 50 U.S. senators are supporting a strong reconciliation bill.


REID: He said 50 U.S. senators. That means Manchin and Sinema have to agree to more than just a framework, my assumption is, to a bill. There is text of the bill out now. Do you trust Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to not double cross the progressive caucus on build back better?

BUSH: No. And I don`t owe them my trust. And they don`t owe me theirs. What moves me and what moves the people actually is the vote, you know? So give us the vote. Let us see the vote. That`s how we know where you stand is by the vote. Now, if they want the get up and give a big press conference and say that, hey, we looked at the text and we agree with the text. We`re having a press conference to make sure it`s on the record and we`re just waiting for Senator Schumer to pass that -- pass it, you know, to the floor, get to it the floor, okay, that`s different. We can start a different conversation there. That`s all I can say on that.

But, for me, it`s not about trusting two people. It`s about thinking about every single person in St. Louis that has reached out saying that, you know what, that $300, that child tax credit, how much that changed my household, it`s thinking about when I was a teacher, when I worked in child care for ten years. And at one point, I was a three and four-year-old teacher, and I remember when I became the administrator, I would have to turn away parents saying you know what, it`s Monday morning, and if you don`t have your full tuition, you child can`t stay for the week. And so they would have to take off work if they did didn`t have the money to pay so they could go to work. We are cutting that.

And I will not think about just -- and what we`re talking about, if we`re only talking about the bipartisan infrastructure package, we`re going to make sure that we set up white men. We`re going to set up white men. Will some people of color get help? Yes. But we`re basically setting up white men, but we`re leaving out immigrants, black women, brown women, our native community. We`re leaving out so many others that are part of that other human infrastructure piece. And I won`t do it. I won`t do it. Because I felt like that`s what happened to me before. I felt like when I was sleeping on the street, when up was on Medicaid and wick and I had food stamps, I felt like who has been paying attention when I -- when you give me -- you give me a little and you think I`m supposed to bow down and get on my knees and thank you for it and instead of making sure that I have what I needed to sustain.

And so I will not be that person that steps up and agrees with that. I`m going to make sure that each and ever person in my community is able to live a decent quality of life, if I have anything to do with it. And until that happens, I`m standing strong.

REID: You know, thank you for reminding us, because I was going to say it before I said goodbye to you and thank you, that Kyrsten Sinema and the Republicans who negotiated the infrastructure bill, there was not one person of color on that team.

It was negotiated by an all-white...


BUSH: Exactly.

REID: ... conservative group of people.

And, as you said, that`s going to help one set of people. And they put all of the things that are going to help young people, black and brown people, help the environment in this other bill that they`re now threatening to flush down the toilet, that they`re saying just give us the other bill.

It`s pretty stark. And Democrats need to take notice of that, because folks notice. Cori Bush notices.

Congresswoman Cori Bush, thank you for being here this evening.

BUSH: Thank you. Thank you.

REID: Up next on THE REIDOUT: Yes, it looks like they`re close to a deal, sure, but watching the sausage get made, lord, it`s left a lot of Democrats deeply disappointed.

How does this party turn that around in time for the midterms next year?

Plus: Tucker Carlson`s dangerous propaganda, leading the culture war and teaching Republicans how to rewrite and reframe, not just history, but the things that are happening right now before our very eyes.

And tonight`s "Absolute Worst": Baseball swings and misses in a huge way on racism and human dignity.

We have got a lot more. THE REIDOUT continues after this.



REID: Joining me now is Juanita Tolliver, Democratic strategist, and Kurt Bardella, adviser to the DCCC.

And, Juanita, I`m going to start with you.

I don`t know if you were able to hear Congresswoman Cori Bush, but I feel like she made the point. I mean, delinking these two bills -- I have talked with Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal about this on the show. The risk of delinking the bills always was that Manchin and Sinema, who really want the hard infrastructure bill, would say, yes, great, I got that, and bye when it comes to Build Back Better, which is the bill that helps people of color, young people, women, single moms, et cetera.

Do you feel that the progressives spotted the potential double-cross and won the day today?

JUANITA TOLLIVER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: They spotted the double cross weeks ago when they held the line, and they did the same today.

And they have been consistent in that, because let`s be real.

REID: Yes.

TOLLIVER: That`s what they said back in April, when the bipartisan deal was being negotiated. They said, you`re not getting this unless we make sure we deliver for people.

And the thing I love about Representative Cori Bush is that she always asks the question, who is this for? Who are you prioritizing?

REID: Yes.

TOLLIVER: And she named it, not only with you, but every single time that she and other progressives stand still and hold the line, because we know this is about young people. We know this is about black and brown people.

And I think Democrats absolutely need to follow her playbook in messaging this to the public, because it`s about those tangible, very real impacts that we know it`s having on people. Hey, parents, that $300 to -- $200 or $300 you`re getting every month in your bank account, that continues for another year.

Hey, families with 3- and 4-year-olds, they get to go to pre-K for free. Hey, families with older, aging parents, here`s some investments in care that not only pay health care workers better and home care workers better, but also allow your elder to live safely and comfortably for the long term.

That is what Democrats need to do. So, yes, talk about the top lines in the policy, but talk about the tangible impacts. Talk about the communities that this will provide for, Joy.

REID: No, you`re absolutely right.

I mean, 28th -- the U.S. ranks 28th out of 38 industrial countries for the share of 4-year-olds and enrolled in early childhood education. We`re barely a modern country when it comes to how we treat families, Kurt.

And most people really don`t know what`s in these bills. And that is the case. We try to do it on this show, just say, here`s what`s in the bills. But there`s a poll out now that is saying only 10 percent of people know a lot of the specifics that are in the bill.

And I kind of feel like Manchin and Sinema have taken advantage of that, because everyone knows what infrastructure is. It`s trains, it`s roads. It`s stuff like that, bridges. But the other bill, they have -- has been allowed to be sort of pushed aside.

But it`s the bill that helps the most people. So do you think that at this point, now that -- now that the White House understands that he`s going to get on that plane, Biden, and they ain`t giving him the bill, and that the bill won`t happen until they get Build Back Better, do you think that that puts Democrats in a stronger position to pass this substantive legislation?


And, again, I think one thing that we have to remember -- and I have been trying to stress this point -- every single dollar that Democrats approve and Joe Biden signs into law is one more dollar than Republicans want to spend on anything.

Republicans want to gut education. They want to get health care in America. Democrats are fighting to make it easier for children, for health care to go down, for education to be accessible, and to put more money in your pocketbook, instead of putting it in the pocketbooks of billionaires, which is what the Republicans want to do.

When it comes to the messaging of this thing -- and you`re right -- for too long now, we have allowed defining this to be done by other people and outside forces. And it has to be simple. It has to be understandable. And it has to be concrete.

Republicans are very good at branding, as you and I both know.

REID: They are.

BARDELLA: So, we can start taking a page from their book, and we need to make Republicans own the fact that they`re the ones who are obstructing things that will make it easier for children to get an education...

REID: Right.

BARDELLA: ... for families to actually be able to afford child care in America, for families to able to afford health care in America. We`re talking about very basic fundamental rights.

If we are the great country that Republicans want to say that we are, we got to be able to do these things.

REID: Yes.

Another little stat, most developed countries offer more than $14,000 a year for toddler care. The United States, it`s about 500 bucks, and they put it on the employer to do it.

Here`s how sneaky the Republicans are, Juanita. Lawrence O`Donnell pointed this out. He caught Mitt Romney doing some trolling, where he put out his little fake Ted Lasso thing. Look who is in the picture with him, if we can show this tweet. He`s up there with Kyrsten Sinema. He -- and he tweeted this out while President Biden was doing his speech, as if to say, don`t trust this lady, right?

They have already talked about the fact, the Republicans, that they love what Manchin and Sinema are doing because they think it`ll help them get the other Senate seat in Arizona. And let me show you some of the tweets from Republicans, Alex Mooney tweeting about spending, as if they ever cared about that, Steve Daines, Rob Portman, other people tweeting about -- they don`t care about fiscal sanity.


They were letting Trump spend whatever he wanted.

Talk about the Republican side, because the Democrats are messy, but the Republicans are absent.

TOLLIVER: The Republicans are absent.

And, worse, Republicans are only focused on spreading Trump`s lies and peddling everything that he wants them to peddle, because he`s got them in a vise grip.

But, also, that picture of them playing in our faces? Like, come on, Sinema. Why allow yourself to be used like a prop like that by this guy, this dude with an elevator in his car garage? Like, this is the image that you want? This is what you want to be the center of conversation, especially when you`re taking in polls at home and you know Democrats want you gone? This is not it.

And she needs to get it together. I think the other reality here, like you said, Joy, Republicans do not care about spending. Spending was not anywhere in their minds when they cut taxes for the rich and the wealthy back in 2017.

But you know why it`s front and center now is because the rich and corporations are about to be taxed. And that`s another message that Democrats need to lead with, because 69 percent of Americans support taxing the rich, support taxing corporations and making them pay their fair share, so that we can invest in these types of programs, Joy, so, parents of toddlers get more than $500.

And they wonder why millennials aren`t having kids? Like, what?

REID: Yes.

TOLLIVER: Like, I think that Democrats need to say with their whole chest, we`re taxing the rich to deliver for you. And here`s what we`re delivering.

REID: And real quick, Kurt, as we leave here, Kyrsten Sinema is playing a lot of games, thinking that she`s going to get her infrastructure bill that she negotiated.

She might wind up getting nothing, because I think progressives have made it clear, you gets nothing until we help the most people.

BARDELLA: Well, it`s like you run the risk of kind of being left at the altar at the last second when you play these games, just playing in earnest, being transparent, and really listening to your constituency.

Let`s be very clear here. These are not controversial bills. These are not controversial provisions. This is not a controversial legislative piece. This is something that the overwhelming majority of the American people clearly want. Any time you put yourself in the opposite of that, any time you put yourself in a position to potentially be in obstruction to that, you are playing political fire with your life, with your political livelihood here.

And you`re also setting yourself up to get a lot of the blame and very little of the credit.

REID: There you go. I have heard it called maverick theater, what she`s doing. Won`t say who I heard that from.

Juanita Tolliver, Kurt Bardella, thank you very much.

Still ahead: It`s almost time for Halloween. And there is a monster in our midst, far right elements of the Republican Party creeping out of the shadows and into the political mainstream. Are you frightened yet? You should be.

We will be right back.



REID: The Republican Party`s full throated embrace of the big lie is proof that the most deranged elements of the far right conspiracy theorists are now just the norm. There`s no idea too unhinged to be served up to Republican voters via the right`s favorite network, FOX News, from its most popular host, Tucker Carlson.

On his program last night, Tuckums previewed a documentary that goes beyond the usual Daughters of the Confederacy rewrite of the January 6 insurrection to shameless lying and conspiracy-mongering.

The trailer features, among others, a one-time speechwriter for the disgraced twice-impeached former president who was fired for palling around with white nationalists, and Ali Alexander, one of the organizers of the rally preceding the siege on the Capitol who`s been subpoenaed by the January 6 committee. He`s apparently come out of hiding to become a right- wing media star.

Now, I am only showing you this because you need to see just how unhinged and, frankly, dangerous this is, especially coming from the most watched person on FOX News.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The domestic war on terror is here. It`s coming after half of the country.

I have been told that I`m a white nationalist, me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: False flags have happened in this country, one of which may have been January 6.


REID: A false flag. He honestly seems to be pushing fascistic propaganda that January 6, was a government plot to target conservatives.

That is a lie, full stop, a lie. This special is going to air on the network`s streaming platform. But he used the main FOX News platform to promote it. And streaming online is actually potentially more dangerous. It can go more viral that way.

FOX News is basically letting him go full Infowars in prime time. He`s no different at this point that Alex Jones. Tucker is the main actor teaching the right how to normalize fascism, white nationalism and white supremacy.

And now he`s priming easily at least a third of this country`s adult population to go all in on this radical rewrite of January 6 and, with it, to normalize violence.

Just listen to this man in the audience at an event held by the right-wing organization Turning Point USA just this week.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is tyranny. When do we get to use the guns?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, and I`m not -- that`s not a joke. I`m not saying it like that. I mean, literally, where`s the line? How many elections are they going to steal before we kill these people?

CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: So, no -- I -- no, hold on. I`m -- no, stop. Hold on.

Now, I`m going to denounce that, and I`m going to tell you why, because you`re playing into all their plans, and they`re trying to make you do this.


REID: And to be clear, while Charlie Kirk denounced that question at the time, only because it plays into the wrong hands. The appropriate answer would have been to say never.

But there is no bottom for these people. But back to Tuckums. When it comes to his latest propaganda effort, a handful of the usual suspects on the Republican side have spoken out. Adam Kinzinger called it disgusting. And Liz Cheney said correctly that FOX is good giving him a platform to spread the same lies that promote -- that provoked January 6 to begin with, and tagged Rupert Murdoch and several executives, including former House Speaker Paul Ryan. Remember him, former normcore Republican?


Even FOX personality Geraldo Rivera slammed Tuckums for the documentary, which he called inflammatory and outrageous.

As for the network itself, though, it`s crickets. Rupert Murdoch, oh, he`s busy giving Trump a giant platform on his other outfit, "The Wall Street Journal." And what about the leadership of the Republican Party, you know, the folks who happily trot out -- trot on over to his program when it suits them, Kevin McCarthy, Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham? Nothing.

So, when Tucker Carlson, FOX`s in-house promoter of white nationalist White Replacement Theory begins his three nights of serving up an unhinged version of the events of January 6 to radicalize the widest audience possible, remember that Republicans said nothing and unleash this monster on all of us.

And up next: They`re not just saying the quiet part out loud anymore. They are shouting it from the freaking rooftops. More on the GOP`s embrace of violent ultranationalism after the break.

Stay with us.



REID: One of the guests on Tuckums` show last night, shortly after he unveiled his propaganda to rewrite the January 6 insurrection, was Glenn Youngkin, the Republican candidate for governor of Virginia, the new poster child for the Republicans` current twisted priority of banning books.

When they`re not trying to reenact "Fahrenheit 451," Republicans are continuing to lose their minds over the Justice Department`s effort to protect school board officials threatened with violence over race-conscious lessons and mask rules.

At a Senate hearing with Attorney General Merrick Garland, perennial "Absolute Worst" candidate Ted Cruz once again proved there is no bottom.


SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I did a quick count just sitting here.

During this hearing, I counted 20 incidents cited. Of the 20, 15 on their face are nonviolent. They involve things like insults. They involve a Nazi salute. That`s one of the examples.

My God, a parent did a Nazi salute at a school board because he thought the policies were oppressive.

General Garland is doing a Nazi salute at an elected official, is that protected by the First Amendment?




REID: I mean, who among us?

Joining me now is California Congressman Eric Swalwell. He was an impeachment manager earlier this year. And Cynthia Miller-Idriss, professor at the School of Public Affairs and School of Education at American University and the author of "Hate in the Homeland: The New Global Far Right."

Representative Swalwell, your thoughts on Ted Cruz defending the Nazi salute? He later said, well, he was just defending parents` right to denounce authoritarian policies, as if Nazis are not authoritarian.

Your thoughts?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Imagine wanting to own the libs so bad, Joy, that you would defend the Nazi salute to a Jewish attorney general. I mean, that`s where they are right now.

Good evening, Joy. Good evening, Professor.

But this also is defending the violence that many are taking against school board members across America. Maybe I`m a little sensitive to this. My working-class dad ran for and was the president of a school board. It`s one of the hardest jobs in America.

But we now see Republicans believing that people not only have a right to go to the school board, but they have a right to go there and incite and threaten violence against people making decisions about our kids` education.

And Ted Cruz is cool with it. He just doesn`t want the police to get in the way.

REID: Yes.

And, Professor Miller-Idriss, welcome to the show again. I think you have - - welcome back to the show, I should say.

And when you have normcore, supposedly, Republicans like Glenn Youngkin, who`s running in Virginia, people like Ted Cruz, who used to be, I`m a fiscal conservative, that used to be his thing, I`m a constitutional conservative, but they`re now normalizing and rubbing elbows with open white nationalism, White Replacement Theory, some really dangerous ideologies that are designed to whip up particularly white men and working- class white men, non-college white men.

And then you have one of those working-class white men -- or we don`t know his class or whatever -- show up at an event and say, when do we get to start killing, I don`t know why anybody is surprised. But are you surprised that that`s where we are?


And thanks for having me back. It`s good to be here, and good to be here with you both.

I mean, I think what we`re seeing here is, under the guise of free speech, a lot of the veneer of kind of respectability that mainstream politicians and mainstream news platforms carry, you have actually now Holocaust minimization happening, and you have real mainstreaming and legitimation of very extreme kinds of concepts.

So free speech is fine, but you still have to say that was Holocaust minimization. I mean, that is not -- you cannot compare a mask mandate or a vaccine mandate to the Holocaust. It`s just -- even if it`s allowed, legally allowed, it`s incredibly dangerous, and when we have rampant Holocaust denial happening online in ways that recruit and draw people into extremist movements.

REID: And, Congressman, all of this feels like a really dangerous stew that`s being created here.

You have FOX News putting Tucker Carlson on, a special that he`s -- they`re going to do on their streaming platform, which means it can go super viral, to basically do his own Alex Jones, to go Infowars and claim that it was all a false flag on January 6.

And then the same empire, Rupert Murdoch`s empire at "The Wall Street Journal," publishing a full-on letter from Donald Trump in which he again promotes the big lie and denies the election was valid. They let him do that in the hallowed "Wall Street Journal," claiming that it`s legitimate to do it because it reflects on his fitness in -- for 2024.

You have got people being promoted and put into place in Michigan. Conspiracy theories are being installed in nonpartisan election canvasser positions. They`re putting the worst of the worst, the farthest right people in positions where they`re going to have the ability to look at elections and to determine who wins elections.


I feel like the Republican Party has gone. And you used to serve with Paul Ryan. Have you heard from him lately on whether or not he thinks there`s something wrong with what they`re doing at FOX?

SWALWELL: He`s on the board there. And he should resign if he does not agree with what they`re doing, Joy, because, right now, as Tucker Carlson makes a tribute video for the terrorists, celebrates the cop killers, the message that is received by the people watching is, if we do this again, we will be honored on FOX News.

We will get our own documentary honoring what we have done. And so people at home are making the bombs, loading the guns, sharpening the knives, getting ready to aim their venom at whoever Tucker Carlson says is the next target. It`s an extremely volatile situation that we`re in right now.

And the best thing that anchors at FOX News could do, if they don`t agree with it, is what I think you would do, Joy, if someone in the MSNBC lineup had a one-hour special honoring al Qaeda, is resign, and say, if you`re going to show this, I`m not going to be a part of your network.

REID: And the thing about it is, Professor, I used to watch some of these ISIS recruitment videos back when I used to do a dayside program.

They were very similar, in that they showed lots of action, lots of sort of very -- they were very cinematic. And they were designed to draw a certain kind of man, a sort of incel type of young man who was frustrated by whatever was happening in his life, and get them to come for the action.

This video was cut very similarly. It`s got that sort of cinematic, action movie kind of cut. It isn`t that different. And so they`re trying to get angry about the fact that we`re talking about domestic terrorism, but these videos look like the videos that terrorists make.


These are propaganda tactics that are persuasive. They`re manipulative tactics that are used across extremist groups, across ideologies to play into a lot of emotional kind of characteristics that draw people into these movements, that make them feel a sense of betrayal, that makes them feel they are being called upon to act heroically or in some kind of courageous fashion.

They really think they`re thwarting threats to democracy. So, it`s a twisting of characteristics that actually may not -- may have drawn them into veterans movement -- into the active-duty military or -- to begin with or something. They`re being drawn into the same characteristics, by -- around heroism and courageous action, but they`re being manipulated.

And I think you`re seeing that very clearly in these kinds of persuasive tactics through the videos like that one.

REID: And I think I have to remind our audience that FOX News is broadcast on military bases all over the world.

And there were people in -- that had military connections that were there on January 6. They are trying to -- they are trying to radicalize even people in our military by broadcasting this kind of stuff. It`s extremely dangerous. Rupert Murdoch should have to answer for it.

Maybe the next lawsuit, Congressman, ought to involve Rupert Murdoch or Tucker Carlson. I know you`re involved in one now about January 6.

Congressman Eric Swalwell, Cynthia Miller-Idriss, thank you both very much. Scary stuff.

And don`t go anywhere. Tonight`s "Absolute Worst" is next, as the venerable World Series provides a shameful reminder of America`s ongoing mistreatment of Native Americans. It just doesn`t stop, you all.

We will be right back.



REID: The World Series between the Atlanta Braves and the Houston Astros is happening now, shifting to the stadium in Atlanta for the next three games, which means viewers across the country will soon be subjected to a particular show of fandom that has roiled baseball for decades.

And that`s the Tomahawk Chop -- correction, the racist Tomahawk Chop, a synchronized movement of the arm by Atlanta fans at home games, a gesture and chant promoting stereotypes, caricatures, and, frankly, hatred of Native American people.

The Chop gets its World Series spotlight starting tomorrow, as other teams are retiring such appropriation. The Washington Football Team ditched its former name, a racial slur we will not be repeating here. And the Cleveland Indians banished their extremely offensive logo and also changed their name to the Guardians.

This week, baseball commissioner Rob Manfred came out in defense of Atlanta, saying -- quote -- "The Native American community in that region is fully supportive of the Braves program, including the Chop."

But, yeah, no, because Native Americans and allies have protested the Chop for at least 30 years, including actual Native American baseball players, like Cardinals reliever Ryan Helsley, a member of the Cherokee Nation, who was forced to pitch amid the Chop when his team faced the Braves.

The National Congress of American Indians responded to Manfred, saying: "Native people are not mascots. Degrading rituals like the Tomahawk Chop that dehumanize and harm us have no place in American society."

And yet it`s all over American society and will be on national TV in 24 hours. You got to wonder, how on earth is this happening? But we know, don`t we? It`s allowed for the same reason that white parents are allowed to erase centuries of truth from U.S. history, why they get to expunge Toni Morrison books or any mention of Andrew Jackson`s role in exterminating Native people from their land.

That entitlement, that incredible sense of white privilege, which boils down to complete impunity for them, while the rest suffer, isn`t that what the cult of Trumpism is and what this offensive, gross Tomahawk Chop embodies?

So, it`s no wonder that Donald Trump is reportedly attending game four in Atlanta, the Chop a fitting soundtrack for a wannabe despot who feeds off hate and whose core belief is that racists can do whatever they want, as others are ridiculed, erased and reduced to the very stereotype that justified a genocide.

The belief that it`s your right to use team-sanctioned racism to root for the home team, that is the "Absolute Worst."

And that`s tonight`s REIDOUT.

"ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts right now.