Summary
"Politico" reports that the GOP will forego its traditional election postmortem because Trump is carrying on this charade that they didn't actually lose the White House. Donald Trump and Republicans are shouting from the rooftops about baseless, voter-fraud claims, but they are largely silent about a far-more urgent matter. Russia is believed to be behind a massive, cyberattack on the computer systems of both private companies, and multiple, U.S. government agencies, including the National Nuclear Security Administration.
Transcript
ALI VELSHI, MSNBC HOST: Watch this space, indeed.
I almost wonder whether President Trump, either he didn't have somebody do the math for him, or didn't fully understand how this veto thing works because you have very clearly outlined how this is going to go down, in a way that's just not going to end up with December 24th looking good for Donald Trump.
My last 30-some-odd days on a job, Rachel, are going to go very differently. I'm going to sort of coast and take it easy. You have -- you have a nice night, Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Thank you, Ali. Thank you. Appreciate it.
VELSHI: All right.
Seven million sixty thousand four hundred and twelve. Donald Trump lost the election by more than 7 million votes but the GOP, which has embraced Trump more deeply and fervently than the party has ever embraced a candidate and still embraces him is refusing to examine what went wrong.
"Politico" reports that the GOP will actually forego its traditional election postmortem, something that generally happens when you lose, because Trump continues his sorcery with the message that things could hardly be better for the party that lost control of the White House, mostly because he is carrying on this charade that they didn't actually lose the White House.
One Republican Party chair in Michigan actually said, quote, as far as I'm concerned, everything's great.
But here is the thing. Everything is not great for Republicans. It's really bad. Republicans have lost the popular vote, in seven of the last eight presidential elections.
In 2012, when Mitt Romney lost the popular vote by 5 million votes, his defeat led to a devastating, 100-page RNC postmortem detailing what went wrong and what the party needed to do to appeal to a changing electorate. Some simple things that could have actually helped them win parts of the electorate, among whom they were severely underperforming. It was a good read, actually.
None of that postmortem was followed, in 2016. Donald Trump certainly didn't read 100-page document. But despite Trump's win that year, the lack of lessons learned by Republicans, clearly, contributed to Trump's re-election defeat, because pandering only gets you so far, in politics, for so long.
So, here we are. The GOP hasn't lost by such a devastating margin, in a presidential re-election campaign, in decades. And they're still silent, hardly a peep from anyone with any influence or authority. Instead, Republicans are doubling down on their fanatical support of the guy who lost the election.
More than 200 elected-congressional Republicans, still, refuse to admit that Trump even actually lost the election. How does that help them? When Joe Biden is sworn in, on January 20th, will they still have their heads in the sand? How long will this continued gen genuflection to the loser go on?
This week, in an interview with "Glamour Magazine", incoming White House deputy chief of staff, Jen O'Malley Dillon, used an F-bomb to describe Republicans in Congress. You know, the ones who actually signed onto the ridiculous, Texas lawsuit, that a 3rd grader could have told you wouldn't make it past the Supreme Court.
The reaction was immediate, swift condemnation from the right. Republicans slammed O'Malley Dillon. One even claimed the Biden campaign was assaulting democracy, because she swore. Spare me.
We don't endorse the F-bomb much around here. There is a guy on the fifth floor who uses it quite liberally.
But give me a break. Where were these Republicans so offended by the F-word, when Donald Trump bragged about grabbing women's genitalia? A man who referred to African nations, such as the one in which I was born, as shit-hole countries. Remember the outrage from Republicans about that? Neither do I.
How about be offended by the guy who said this virus was no worse than the flu, and would disappear into nothing, magically. 309,000 Americans are dead. That's about 18 percent of the global total. We are 4.25 percent of the global population. But, you're offended by the F-word?
Maybe, Republicans could use all the time and attention that they spend decrying a curse word to explore why they are still supporting a man, who has said and done far worse and lost re-election because of it. There's a thought.
For those of you watching the implosion of the GOP with glee, don't. It's a bad thing. A one-party state, even if it's the party you support, is a really terrible idea.
Elections should be fought and won in the arena of ideas, not because one party became stupid and fell into the thrall of a charlatan. Fortunately, some Republicans continue to fight for the things that was once considered the Grand Old Party.
"Politico" reports that leaders of the Never Trump movement see their work as far from over, just because Trump is leaving office soon. Quote, they want to keep the heat on the sycophants who serve as Trump foot soldiers and to provide cover for those who reject far-out conspiracy theories and attacks on democracy. Or, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Longtime Republican political strategist, Steve Schmidt, announced that he is registering as a Democrat to take down fanatical Republicans.
Here he is with Lawrence earlier this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE SCHMIDT, FORMER REPUBLICAN POLITICAL STRATEGIST: The party that's going to defend American liberty is the Democratic Party and that's why I joined it. I'm a single issue voter now. I believe in American democracy, full stop. And that's what is going to be on the ballot in every presidential election, going forward. And our side can't afford to lose an election, because it may be the last one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Others are just as outraged, by the way. Former New Hampshire GOP chair and Lincoln Project co-founder, Jennifer Horn, just announced she is leaving the Republican Party, and registering as an independent. Jennifer says that the party's support for the Texas lawsuit to overturn the election result was, quote, the last straw.
Now, it seems Jennifer's ready to fight the worst instincts of the party on her own terms. Quote: As long as today's Republican Party holds sway over our nation, freedom and democracy are at risk. And every one of us must set aside our partisan differences and tribal instincts, in their defense, end quote.
Leading off our discussion tonight. Jennifer Horn, former chair of the New Hampshire Republican Party and co-founder of the Lincoln Project.
And Professor Eddie Glaude, chairman of the department of African-American studies at Princeton University, and an MSNBC contributor.
Good evening to both of you. Thank you for being here.
Jennifer Horn, I -- I -- I -- I can't agree with your words, more. When Steve Schmidt says he is a single-issue voter now, and that issue is democracy. That is the one thing that should bring us all together.
And at the end of the day, once we've all agreed that democracy is the thing we need to -- to -- to -- to provide for and to protect, we can go our separate ways. And join other political parties. There's no reason we shouldn't have multiple, political parties. There is a good reason why we shouldn't have political parties that are anti-Democratic in this country.
JENNIFER HORN, FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE GOP CHAIR: That's exactly right. And thank you so much for having me, tonight. You know, I was one of those people that was holding out hope that, when Trump was behind us, when the election was over and he lost, that, maybe, there would be some other Republicans, like myself, willing to come out and come together. And try to rebuild on those foundational principles of democracy and individual liberty and freedom.
And what we've seen in the last four weeks, postelection, is a party that has clearly made a strategic decision to build their future on attacking democracy, undermining the Constitution, being willing to, you know, engage in a full-frontal assault against and try to overthrow a -- a legitimate, free, and fair election. And that's simply not an effort that I can be part of, certainly, or even risk having my name associated with.
I -- I -- I have -- I hope that my children and that other people around the country can look at this, and say you can do the right thing. You don't have to be married to a party or a group or a tribal identity. You can stand firm, and stand tall, on your own, and do the right thing.
VELSHI: And, Eddie, we -- we don't -- we are a pluralistic society. We don't need to share views on everything. We don't need to share views on religion or food or ideology or a lot of things. But we are brought together, on the understanding that all -- all people are, in theory, created equal. We haven't quite done that, in this country. But we're getting there. We're working toward it, and that, everybody gets a vote and that democracy works a certain way.
There is some role for Democrats to play here. We don't actually want the implosion of the Republican Party. It would be bad for -- bad for democracy. But I don't know what -- what comes in its place.
EDDIE GLAUDE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, look. We -- we know that we -- we stand on a knife's edge, as a country. And we have to ask ourselves the question, what -- what is motivating, outside of just cold, political calculus, what's motivating those who are Republican, to engage or to embrace these anti-democratic views?
Look, Donald Trump may have lost by 7 million votes. But he garnered the second-largest number of presidential votes in the history of presidential elections, in this country. And he expanded his base.
So, if you kind of subtract Donald Trump's bombast, what was motivating that excitement? Not just Donald Trump's personality. So, we have to begin to drill down and understand the deep divisions that threatens democracy. So, I want to be very, very clear, that Donald Trump is a problem, that the Republican leadership is a problem, the Republican Party is a problem, but they are tapping -- they are tapping into something, that we have to wrap our minds around.
VELSHI: Yes.
GLAUDE: And the Democratic Party has to wrap its mind around, too. That's what I am trying to understand.
VELSHI: Yes, that's right. And there is a forgotten America, Jennifer Horn, might be because they're black, might be because they're gay. It might be because they're women. It might be because they're refugees. It might be because they're immigrants. It might be because they're white, working-class people, who have been cheated out of their jobs by bad trade policy over the last years.
There are a lot of Americans, with a lot of grievances out there. And they deserve to be heard, and they deserved to be tapped into. But -- but Eddie's question about what's motivating people to become conspiracy theorists. What's motivating people to listen to Donald Trump's nonsense? What's motivating these state legislators in Michigan and in Arizona and in Pennsylvania to go along with -- with the clown car, that is led by Rudy Giuliani.
That's a different thing. Americans with a grievance deserve to be heard. This nonsense is something entirely different.
HORN: This nonsense is really dangerous to America. It is a dangerous to the -- the foundations of our democracy. And what we've seen, in the Republican Party leadership under Donald Trump.
And clearly, you know, they're choosing even beyond, is really to -- to stir up this misinformation, this bringing out the worst instincts in people, whether it comes -- whether it's about disinformation-conspiracy theories, the us against them, the you look different than I do or, you know, you're from someplace different than I'm from.
That they have -- they have made a choice to -- to -- to stir that up, and to manipulate it, and to -- to amplify it to their own political benefit, to their -- to satisfy their own, political ambition. And the truth is, you can look back over the past four years and see that, all of these people with the grievances that they have, many of which, to your point, are legitimate, have not been served well by the Republican Party.
They have been ignored. They have been left out. And in this moment, they are being taken advantage of and manipulated to further the -- the political ambitions of the leadership, of a very small number of people, at the top of the party. And that is an incredibly dangerous place for us to be.
VELSHI: Professor Glaude, many times during this campaign, Joe Biden said he will not be a president for Democrats. He will be a president for all Americans. And to some degree, that's going to have to work. He is going to have to be able to bring the temperature down, and -- and let people know that the things, the grievances, American -- Americans have are shared grievances, right?
Someone's done a really effective job of making white people think it's black people and making straight people think it's gay people. But, in fact, our grievances are all the same. And they have more to do with this K-shaped recovery, than anything else. The rich in this country get richer. The poor get poorer. And that needs to be fixed.
Is there a way that the leadership of Joe Biden, if executed properly, can -- can make people less tribal than they are right now?
GLAUDE: Well, if we have a certain set of policies that, in some ways, improve the conditions of everyday people, particularly, the most vulnerable among us. If we see a clear address of the broken healthcare system in what COVID-19 has revealed, then perhaps. If we see, very clearly, fundamental reform around criminal justice and policing in this country, then perhaps.
But it's very important for us to understand our history, Ali. That -- that if we reach across the aisle, if we reach for unity, and that unity has to be born on the backs of certain people. That happened, already. You think about what happened when radical reconstruction collapsed, right? And -- and compromise happened. Who had to bear the brunt of it?
It happened primarily, really quickly, primarily because there was an agreement, right? There is agreement between those who embraced the lost cause, and those who embraced Anglo-Saxonism, that just wasn't a Southern thing.
So, part of what I am suggesting here is that, if President Biden, President-elect Biden, who will be president, offers a vision for us to imagine ourselves being together differently. Then perhaps, what you just asked will come to pass. But, if he is asking certain people to bear the brunt of the compromise, again, then we will find ourselves on this racial hamster wheel, again. And all hell will break loose, Ali.
VELSHI: There -- there is an answer to this. There is an answer, in which can hear the grievances of all Americans. And move toward a more just society and a more perfect union. I'm confident of it.
Thank you to both of you for the contributions that you make to this remarkably, remarkably important dialogue.
Jennifer Horn is the former chair of the New Hampshire Republican Party and the co-founder of the Lincoln Project. She is now an independent.
Professor Eddie Glaude is the chairman and professor of African-American studies at Princeton University.
Thanks to both of you.
Coming up, the Trump administration started with Russia and it's ending with Russia. There are new details tonight on a massive, Russian cyberattack on U.S. government networks.
Former ambassador, Wendy Sherman, joins us after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Donald Trump and Republicans are shouting from the rooftops about baseless, voter-fraud claims. But they are largely silent about a far-more urgent matter, one "The New York Times" calls among the greatest intelligence failures, of modern times. Russia is believed to be behind a massive, cyberattack on the computer systems of both private companies, and multiple, U.S. government agencies, including the National Nuclear Security Administration. That's the agency responsible for maintaining America's nuclear weapon stockpile.
The espionage campaign went unnoticed, for more than eight months. Russia's denied its involvement in the cyberattack. But it's hard to believe their word, when, just today, Vladimir Putin denied Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Russian hackers have never interfered in the elections. This is all just wild conjecture. This is just a pretext to try to sour the relations between Russia and the U.S.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Officials who don't kowtow to Trump or Putin are taking the cyberattack far more seriously. Today in "The New York Times", Trump's former homeland security adviser, Trump's guy, Tom Bossert, writes, quote, the magnitude of this ongoing attack is hard to overstate.
President Trump is on the verge of leaving behind a federal government, and perhaps a large number of major industries, compromised by the Russian government. He must use whatever leverage he can muster to protect the United States and severely punish the Russians.
But if Trump won't do anything, someone else will in 34 days. Joe Biden said this tonight about the attack. A good defense isn't enough. We need to disrupt and deter our adversaries from undertaking significant, cyberattacks, in the first place. As president, I will not stand idly by in the face of cyber assaults on our nation.
Joining us now is former undersecretary of state for political affairs, Ambassador Wendy Sherman. She is director for public leadership at Harvard Kennedy School and an MSNBC global affairs contributor.
Ambassador Sherman, good to see you, today. I have to tell you, it is remarkable that we -- we began this administration with issues about Russian interference in the election, and a warning from President Obama, to Russia. And some sanctions, that the Trump administration, quite quickly, undid. And tried to -- tried to counter.
And now, we've got this. We've got a situation that mirrors what happened in 2016. And almost, utter and complete silence from the president of the United States.
WENDY SHERMAN, MSNBC GLOBAL AFFAIRS CONTRIBUTOR: It's really, quite extraordinary, Ali, that there is such silence from the administration. It was, in fact, a private company, FireEye, which got hacked, and alerted the government that Solar Winds, which had really entered some corrupted malware into the system, had really compromised so many of our departments and agencies. Commerce, Treasury, DOD, State, as you mentioned, nuclear-regulatory agencies, and on and on.
I don't even think we know the extent of it, as well as many Fortune 500 companies. It will take months to figure out everything that's happened here, and it is very dangerous and very serious. And, you know, in a Biden/Harris administration, what would happen today, besides the statement that the president-elect meant -- made, today.
VELSHI: Uh-huh.
SHERMAN: We would send, up to Congress, and secure briefings, our intelligence community to explain to Congress as much as we knew. If we could assign attribution, we would. And in a July speech, that President-elect Biden made, he, indeed, laid out very specific things he would do if we faced such an attack.
And the last point I want to make, of course, is a really obvious one. Which is, president Trump, early on, got rid of the White House office to deal with cyber issues, and we've paid the price, ever since.
VELSHI: Yep.
SHERMAN: There is no central control. There is no central orchestration of such a serious matter.
VELSHI: And -- and he got rid of Chris Krebs, who kept this election -- this last election safe, because we were really worried about interference in the election.
Ambassador Sherman, one of the things we discussed for so long, at the beginning of this administration, is that if you believe these things are happening. If you believe a foreign government is interfering in your affairs, it really requires an all-of-government response, something that never happened because not once in his administration did Donald Trump ever discuss Russians being responsible for anything.
It was a 400-pound guy in his basement. It was everybody else, except potentially the Russians. So we never had that.
What we are seeing with the Biden administration, as it relates to COVID and to climate, people in all parts of government so that there will be all-of-government responses. Can we counter an attack of this magnitude, if done properly? Or does this indicate how vulnerable we actually are?
SHERMAN: Well, there's no question, we are vulnerable because this attack happened. And it's going to take a long time to unwind it, and understand all the places in which we are vulnerable. But as the president-elect said, we have to both deter and defend, and then act if, in fact, such an attack takes place. And we have a lot of tools at our disposal.
At the very least, you would expect the president of the United States, if he can make an attribution. In this case, I'm pretty sure it was the Russians. He can call them out. He can use -- freeze assets. He can apply economic sanctions. He can go after state-owned industries.
He can take all manner of actions to expose corruption, to work with our allies and partners who are, also, vulnerable to such attacks. We can work with the private sector to make sure it's not only an all-of-government response but it's an all-of-our-society response because our businesses are, also, vulnerable. And we need them to be strong, and to be able to operate here and overseas.
So, this is very serious, very dangerous. As you pointed out, "The New York Times" report that came out tonight really lays out how extensive this is and how concerning it is.
VELSHI: Ambassador Sherman, always good to see you. Thank you for joining us. Ambassador Wendy Sherman.
Coming up next, a second COVID vaccine is one step away from full FDA approval. But, as you might expect, the Trump administration is doing everything in its power to make the vaccine rollout more complicated and challenging than it should be. We are going to talk to a member of President-elect Biden's coronavirus task force about what we can expect, after January 20th. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Today the United States crossed more than 17 million cases of coronavirus. More than double the number from just two months ago.
Also today, an independent FDA advisory panel recommended the second coronavirus vaccine for emergency use in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on the totality of scientific evidence available, do the benefits of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine outweigh its risks for use in individuals 18 years of age and older?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The answer is yes to the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's clearly yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No doubt in my mind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I strongly support that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh its risks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Tomorrow, the FDA is expected to approve the Moderna coronavirus vaccine, which could be more accessible to some people. Particularly, those in rural America, in places that we refer to as vaccine deserts because it doesn't have to be kept in the super cold temperatures, the negative 70 centigrade that the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept in.
Donald Trump's Operation Warp Speed says about six million doses of the Moderna vaccine will be distributed starting Monday, if it is approved, which is what we're expecting.
However, we're not out of the woods just yet. Today, NBC News reported that doctors advising President-Elect Joe Biden fear that Donald Trump's timeline for vaccine distribution is, in fact, too optimistic. Quote, "The team of medical professionals advising Biden are warning internally, that the program he will inherit from outgoing President Donald Trump may not live up to expectations of fast and widespread relief. It might not be until the late summer or early fall before the vaccine begins to be widely available to the general public," said a physician close to the transition.
Joining us now is Dr. Celine Gounder. She is a member of President-Elect Joe Biden's coronavirus advisory board. She's an infectious disease specialist and an epidemiologist at NYU School of Medicine and at Bellevue Hospital. She has a great deal of experience with -- with pandemics.
Dr. Gounder, good to see you again. I don't know anything about pandemics, except that I report on them. I -- I do know numbers and as I have calculated the numbers. You know, with the Pfizer medication needs two doses, and this is how much they can manufacture and this is how much they can ship. And lots of countries have made deals with them.
It strikes me that, by the time you can walk into a Walgreens or a CVS in this country, and there's no one ahead of you, we are looking at possibly summer. Dr. Fauci said, maybe July by that time, that most people can get their vaccine.
We had the HHS Secretary Alex Azar, who comes from the pharmaceutical industry and so would know a lot about this, say that by February he thought you could walk into a pharmacy and start getting that. The numbers don't jive. What do you believe to be the case?
DR. CELINE GOUNDER, MEMBER, JOE BIDEN'S CORONAVIRUS ADVISORY BOARD: Well Ali, I think it all depends on who you are. So phase 1-a, the current phase of vaccination we're in, is the healthcare workers and the staff and residents of people in long-term care facilities.
And I can tell you, I am one of those healthcare workers. I am an infectious disease doctor taking care of patients. I still haven't gotten my vaccination. You know, it's going to be a little while, yet. I may not get mine until well into January.
And so, after that phase 1-a, then you are talking about critical infrastructure workers. That's going to be a couple of months more of vaccination.
And then, you are talking be people over the age of 65. People with chronic medical conditions. So, maybe, April or May.
And then, everybody else. So, you're looking, really, for everybody else, well into the summer and perhaps even the early fall.
VELSHI: So what's the point -- I mean, as you know, Celine, I am going around talking to Americans every week who are very, very worried about whether they've got enough money to make it through to summer or fall. Particularly, small businesses, who have to pay rent and have to pay insurance and want to pay employees.
What's the point of happy talk right now. It's mathematically possible that we have as much of this in front of us as we've had behind us.
GOUNDER: Well, you know, I think it's wonderful news that we have vaccines. Not one, but two that are almost through emergency use authorization now, and others in the pipeline shortly soon thereafter.
But it's not just about having a vaccine. It would be like saying, well, I have the blueprints for the next iPhone. But that's very different from having that iPhone in your hand.
So, you know, it does take time to manufacture, to distribute. And in the meantime, we really do need to double down on the things that we know work. You can't just have this "silver bullet", quote/unquote, of a vaccine that's going to solve everything in one day. It just doesn't work that way.
So, right now, we really do need to wear masks, socially distance the six feet apart, and if we are going to be around other people, try to do that outdoors as opposed to indoors.
VELSHI: We don't get an A plus for how we handled Thanksgiving. Today, the author Jaye Wells tweeted this and I just want to ask you about it. And I know you're not a here to sort of give people particular advice. But Jaye tweeted yesterday, "Five of my family members had COVID. Today, only four do. My uncle passed away this morning. He was a Marine. Survived Vietnam, but Thanksgiving ended him. Cancel your holiday plans."
What's your take on this?
GOUNDER: Well, look. It's not just older people who are dying from this. We know some recent research that was released by Rochelle Walensky by the way, who's one of the -- who's been nominated to be the new director of the CDC as well as some of her colleagues. That research estimates that about 12,000 young people, between the ages of about 20 until their mid-40s have died from coronavirus this year.
That is not an insignificant number of people. That's multiple times 9/11. Just among young people.
And so, I think the message I would send is, look. You know, this is not just affecting a small part of the population. This is affecting all of us. And we do have room to change our behavior, especially with the upcoming holidays, Christmas, the rest of Hanukkah, New Year's, where we really could save lives through our own actions.
VELSHI: Celine Gounder, as always, good to see you. Thank you for joining us. Dr. Celine Gounder is a member of Joe Biden's coronavirus task force. She is an epidemiologist at NYU School of Medicine and at Bellevue Hospital.
Coming up, as Congress continues debating the details of an economic relief bill, U.S. workers just filed the highest number of new, weekly jobless claims since September. Will any relief bill be enough to keep this economy running? The former labor secretary, Robert Reich joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: With tomorrow's deadline looming to keep the government open, congressional leaders are racing to finalize the details of the relief bill to help millions of struggling Americans. The deal is expected to include a new round of checks for about $600 for every adult who qualifies and $600 for every child. It also includes extended unemployment benefits of about $300 per week, loans for small businesses, and food and rental assistance for families.
But, of course, there are sticking points. NBC News reports that one issue, quote, "is Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA, disaster fund for states. Democrats are pushing for it as an indirect way to get money to states."
The other sticking point involves restrictions that Republicans want to impose on how the Federal Reserve can lend money. Time is running out to resolve those issues. Without this aid, millions of Americans will lose their unemployment benefits, and face eviction from their homes.
Today, the Labor Department reported that U.S. workers filed 885,000 new jobless claims last week. About 80,000 more than projected making it the highest weekly total since September.
The "New York Times" reports, quote, "After dropping earlier in the fall, claims have moved higher and they remain at levels that dwarf the pace of past recessions. At the end of November, more than 20 million workers were collecting unemployment benefits, under state or federal programs."
"The Washington Post" added this, quote, "Economists have warned that a lack of aid for the unemployed and small businesses since congress let some stimulus programs expire over the summer is dragging down the economy, jeopardizing the fragile recovery of the labor market as the country heads into a bleak winter of increasing coronavirus infections".
Joining us now, Robert Reich, former Labor secretary under President Bill Clinton and a professor of economics at U.C. Berkeley. His latest book is "The System: Who Rigged It, How We Fix It".
Bob, you and I talk about a lot of things. You are one of the smartest people I interview. And conceptually, you understand some of the big problems of our economy and our society. But I want you to help my viewers understand something that's not all that conceptual.
880,000 people filing for first-time unemployment benefits, which means they are not the same 880,000 people who filed for benefits last week or the week before.
So, as much as Donald Trump is trumpeting the idea that we are putting more people back on the payrolls than at any time in history these numbers say otherwise.
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: That's exactly right, Ali. In fact, we have right now the worst unemployment crisis we have had in this country, probably since the Great Depression of the 1930s.
It is far worse than the Great Recession of 2008-2009 in terms of the numbers of people, but also in terms of the extent of the damage. The hardship.
It's not just a matter of stimulating the economy. It's not just simply a matter of getting the economy going again. It's a matter of actually providing a lot of people, millions of Americans, with disaster assistance, disaster relief so that they can actually survive over the next several months.
VELSHI: Yes. Calling it stimulus is -- it may be the wrong thing. Bob, you know, I have been out on the road since the George Floyd protests. And I stayed on through the election. And now, I'm going every week to different places in America and I'm talking to small businesses and individuals about how they are going to make it.
They're excited there is a vaccine there. But we're talking about next spring at the earliest, probably next summer and maybe next fall.
Heather Long wrote in "The Washington Post", "The nation's poverty rate has risen at the fastest pace ever this year after aid for the unemployed declined. Poverty is now higher than it was at the beginning of the year, a warning sign of the long-lasting effects of a deep recession. Since June, poverty has risen the most for black Americans, up 3.1 percentage points 1.4 million people; and for Americans with high school degrees or less, up 5.1 percentage points or 5.2 million people. About 2 million -- 2.3 million children under 17 have fallen into poverty, since June."
We're talking about poverty. We're talking about food insecurity. And we're talking about homelessness in the richest, most prosperous country on earth, Bob.
REICH: And -- and also the richest there's ever been on earth. Ali, the thing that actually, I find very, very difficult to convey to people who are not in poverty, who are not in hunger, who are not actually experiencing on the ground, a lot of the abstract numbers that we are throwing around here is that we are talking fundamentally about people, about lives, about children, about people who may not be able to, in fact, some of them not even able to put food on their tables right now, who are waiting in food lines to pick up baskets of food, boxes of food that are extending for miles and miles.
Not just in -- in our inner cities, not just in areas that are traditionally poor areas but in suburbs, in areas that are rural areas. People who have never had to stand in bread lines and food lines before.
This is a human tragedy that is unfolding. We cannot simply wait until next summer, until COVID is behind us. We have got to enable people to live, right now, and live well and enable their families to live well because this is a national crisis.
We have not had -- again, I want to emphasize -- a recession this deep since the 1930s Great Depression. We have not had a public health crisis this serious since the Great Pandemic of 1918.
We are in a unique and horrible situation right now. Many people watching this program don't have to be told because they are experiencing this on the ground. But our leaders in Washington, apparently, do need to be told because they are not getting it.
VELSHI: But you know what the problem is, Professor Reich? Sometimes, when you and I talk in the course of the day, in the corner, in the bottom corner of our screen, happens on most cable TV channel. You know what you will see? You'll see the Dow Jones because it's a scoreboard.
I want to read you today's headline from CNBC. U.S. stock index futures were modestly lower in overnight trading on Thursday after major averages closed at new highs.
The stock market is setting new records every day. It's what Donald Trump talks about and when I went across America and talked to voters about it. And they told me what a great job Donald Trump's doing with the economy. And I'm looking at unemployment and I'm looking at poverty, and I'm looking at those food-bank lines. This is what they tell me. But stocks are doing really well.
REICH: Well, the reason the stock market is doing well is because corporate profits are doing well. And the reason corporate profits are doing well is because you've got high-tech companies and big banks and a lot of other companies right now that are raking it in because they have control over a lot of the market.
The fact of the matter is, though, the stock market is not the economy. The stock market -- who owns the stock market? I mean, the richest 1 percent of Americans own half of all the stocks available to Americans on the stock market. The richest 10 percent of Americans own 92 percent.
VELSHI: You said this the other day.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: And I don't mean to interrupt you. I don't mean to be rude and interrupt, Bob. You said this the other day, and I need you to say that one more time, slowly for my viewers. 1 percent own half the value of the stock market in this country?
REICH: Yes. The richest 1 percent of Americans owns half the value of all of the stocks owned by Americans, that is primarily, American stocks. And the richest 10 percent own 92 percent of the stock market. So, to say that the stock market is the economy is completely absurd. Most Americans, even with their 401(k) plans or their pension plans, don't have -- basically, have nothing. Most Americans have no wealth at all. I mean, almost all the wealth in the country is in the hands of a very small number of people.
And so, when you actually look under the surface of this economy, what you see is large, huge numbers of people, a majority of Americans, who are right now barely holding on.
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: The other thing I want to just emphasize, Ali.
VELSHI: Yes.
REICH: Just one more thing. Is that people -- a lot of economists are speculating. They wonder whether it's going to be a V-shaped recovery, that is basically, when we get the COVID vaccines, the economy takes off. Or maybe a U-shaped recovery. But what's likely is a K-shaped economy and by that -- recovery. And by that I mean you've got people at the top who are going to do very well, going to recover very fast. But many people who have no jobs or who are basically barely holding on right now the recovery is going to be very slow, very difficult for them. And that's why Washington has got to act.
VELSHI: 8 percent of all stocks are held by 80 percent of people. The bottom 80 percent have 8 percent of the stock market. So that's something to think about when we watch that scoreboard. How about we stop putting the Dow scoreboard in the bottom right corner of our TV shows and stop pretending that that is actually a thing in our economy.
Robert Reich, thank you for joining me as always. Professor Robert Reich is a former Labor Department secretary under President Bill Clinton. He's the author, he's a professor of economics at Berkeley and his latest book is "The System: Who Rigged It and How We Fix It".
Up next voters are turning out in record numbers to cast their ballots in the Georgia runoffs. But for some reason Republicans are not happy about that. The GOP is doing everything it can, as expected, to make it harder for Georgians to vote.
We'll have more on that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Today Georgia's two Democratic candidates for Senate Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff released a joint campaign ad featuring a special guest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: On day one as your president, I'm prepared to sign a COVID relief package that fully funds the public health response needed led by Georgia's own CDC.
Let me be clear, I need Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff in the United States Senate to get this need done.
There are folks in Congress threatening to do everything in their power to block our efforts. We need you to get out there and vote for Jon Ossoff as well as Raphael Warnock. We need them in the Senate.
God bless America and my God protect our troops.
REVEREND RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D), GEORGIA SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm Raphael Warnock.
JON OSSOFF (D), GEORGIA SENATE CANDIDATE: And I'm Jon Ossoff.
WARNOCK: And we approve this message.
OSSOFF: And we approve this message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Democrats have struggled to win past special elections in Georgia but on the heels of Joe Biden's victory in that state the party has a newfound hope for its chances this time around and it's got numbers to prove it.
Early voting numbers for the runoffs are in line with the numbers for early voting during the general election. That's almost unheard of for special elections.
So far more than 900,000 Georgians have cast ballots in person or by absentee vote and that's despite continued efforts from Republicans to make it harder for Georgians to actually vote.
Today federal judges dismissed two lawsuits filed by Republicans that tried to limit the use of ballot drop boxes in the runoffs and increase security over signature matching.
And four Georgia counties are now being sued by voting rights groups who say they are disenfranchising voters by illegally limiting early voting for the runoffs.
Joining us now is Nse Ufot the CEO of The New Georgia Project which works on education and outreach for eligible minority voters.
The New Georgia Project is one of the organizations that sued four Georgia counties over early voting assets.
Ms. Ufot, thank you for joining us today. Talk to me about the status of efforts to get people to vote. Georgia is the epicenter of this renewed effort that we've seen in years gone by with Stacey Abrams to get people who were either traditionally not prepared to vote or not able to easily to register to vote and carry it out to do so. And we're now seeing remarkable, well-funded push back against that.
NSE UFOT, CEO, THE NEW GEORGIA PROJECT: Absolutely, Ali. So first of all, thank you for having me this evening.
VELSHI: My pleasure.
UFOT: And you're absolutely right. What we're seeing is historic. I think that having lived through a pandemic, having lived through a summer of protests we are now witnessing Georgians show up in record numbers at our polls again despite very naked, very aggressive attempts by the GOP -- the national GOP and the Georgia GOP -- to make it more difficult for people to participate in our elections, that we are in the middle of holiday season and people are still showing up.
VELSHI: I'm going to ask you to interpret something for me. I'm going to play it. It's actually in English, but I want you to tell me what you believe it means.
This is in Macon, Georgia. This is Vice President Pence with Senators Loeffler and Perdue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want you to be confident about your vote. We're on them this time. We're watching. We're going to secure the ballots. We're going to secure the drop boxes and we're going to make sure that every absentee ballot is counted for the people of Georgia.
We're going to keep standing strong. We're going to keep fighting, I promise you. But we need you to get out and vote in this one, folks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: "We're going to secure the ballots. We're going to secure the drop boxes. We're going to make sure that every absentee ballot is counted. We're on them this time." What's he talking about?
UFOT: I think that this is another example of the disinformation that we've seen the Republican parties and their leader participate in, in the aftermath of the November general election. That this is another example of Republican fan fiction. That there's this idea that the election was somehow stolen. That somehow because people had more options to participate in our elections. That people of color showed up in record numbers. That young Georgians showed up in record numbers.
And guess what? And their votes were counted. That they weren't illegally thrown out because of bogus signature matching requirements. That somehow something has happened. That something improper or illegal has happened.
So yes, this is another example of disinformation that the Republicans have been peddling in since long before the November general election.
VELSHI: Nse Ufot, thank you for joining me today. Nse is the CEO of The New Georgia Project.
And that is tonight's LAST WORD.
"THE 11TH HOUR" begins now.
END
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