Summary:
Republicans are silent over Rep. Marjorie Taylor Green`s incendiary remarks. Interview with Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado, a member of the House Armed Services Committee.
Transcript:
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Rachel.
The weekend is in sight. And the Jen Psaki interview was really a pleasure
to watch. She is, as they should say, if this were a TV series, the
breakout star so far of week one of the Biden administration. And it`s not
unusual because the press secretary is the one who`s out there in front of
the camera more than anyone other than the president.
So, she has instantly taken command of that room, and it has been, as you
said, you know, a kind of shocking gear change for us and welcomed gear
change for us to deal with. And I love the way you two talked about what`s
happening and what`s going to happen.
RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST, "TRMS": Well, I mean, she`s setting the tone for
the administration. We have actually heard a lot from the new president in
the past eight days. He has spoken publicly a lot.
But we are hearing even more from Jen Psaki in the briefing room, and she`s
setting this tone of normalcy, accountability, expository work that tells
us what the administration thinks the problem is, what they are doing to
work on it, who is in charge of that work.
And that person will be answering questions about it, as will Jen Psaki on
behalf of the entire administration. It`s just basic accountability, which
is basic small deed democracy, which is just something we were used to
before. We lost it for four years, and now it just feels so radical to get
back to it. I hope it never -- I hope we never take it for granted again.
O`DONNELL: I think we have, for this year, a series of Rachel and jen
conversations coming up at 9:00 p.m. intermittently --
MADDOW: I hope so.
O`DONNELL: -- from time to time that we will all be looking forward to.
MADDOW: I hope very much. Thank you for saying that, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Well, Nadia was thrown in prison by Vladimir Putin because she
sang a song in a cathedral in Moscow. She had a little baby at the time.
She got out of prison because of pressure put on Vladimir Putin by the
United States and other countries around the world. She will join us at the
end of this hour to talk about what Joe Biden`s new pressure on Vladimir
Putin means to the current enormous wave of protests in the Russia.
And in our continued concentration on the year of the Senate, we will turn
to the Senate`s unique and very important function of confirming federal
judges. Mitch McConnell turned the Senate into a high speed confirmation
factory for federal judges during the Trump years. And now, it`s Joe Biden
and Chuck Schumer`s team to catch up. Dahlia Lithwick will join us to say
what will be the non-stop concentration on federal judges and what to
expect from the presidential commission Joe Biden is appointing to study
the possible expansion of the United States Supreme Court.
A federal judge appointed by President Obama refused to let this guy out of
jail this week. Judge Beryl Howell said he would have to remain in jail
awaiting trial because, quote, what happened on that day in the U.S.
Capitol was criminal activity that is destined to go down in history books.
The FBI and the federal prosecutions and federal courts are closing in on
hundred of invaders of the Capitol.
But Speaker Nancy Pelosi said today the real problem now is the enemy
within the House of Representatives. This enemy of the House, this enemy of
the Constitution is a member of the House of Representatives, and she
believes all of the worst things that the invaders of the Capitol believe,
all of the stupidest things, the racist things, the anti-Semitic things.
Marjorie Taylor Greene`s public record prior to becoming a member of the
House of Representatives was so poisonous that even House Republican
leaders, Kevin McCarthy, and Steve Scalise actively opposed her candidacy
in a Republican primary. She publicly supported assassinating Nancy Pelosi,
and now she is fully embraced by the Republicans in the House and the
Senate.
When a poison like that enters your political system and you say and do
nothing about it, then you are more than complicit. That means you actually
want that poison in your politics because you believe it will help you.
Congressman Jason Crow will join us later in this hour to discuss what it
means to be going to work every day with a member of the House of
Representatives who has advocated for the assassination of the House
speaker.
It is into that poisoned system on the Republican side of Congress that Joe
Biden will be sending the legislation he needs to pass to do what he
promised America he will do. But before Biden legislation begins to move in
the Congress, the president is already doing job one by executive order,
which is undo the damage that Trump has done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It`s been a busy week, and I`ve
signed executive orders tackling COVID-19, the economic crises as well as
advanced racial equity. But today, I`m about to sign two executive orders
to undo the damage Trump has done. There`s nothing new that we`re doing
here other than restoring the Affordable Care Act and restoring the
Medicaid to the way it was before Trump became president, which by fiat he
made more inaccessible, more expensive and more difficult for people to
qualify for either of those two items, the Affordable Care Act or Medicaid.
And the second order I`m signing relates to protecting women`s health at
home and abroad. And it reinstates the changes that were made in Title 10,
making it harder for women to have access to affordable health care as it
relates to their reproductive rights.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: NBC News reports that President Biden is already in direct
communication with some Republican senators. Jen Psaki confirmed that the
Rachel in the last hour. Those senators include Rob Portman and Senator
Susan Collins who President Biden worked with when he was a member of the
Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): The relationship that I have with Joe Biden is
closer than the relationship that I had with President Obama or with
President Trump. And I`m very happy to have a good relationship with him.
The fact that he called me -- he`s called me twice since the election -- I
think is a very good sign. And we had an extremely friendly conversation as
well as a substantive one. And he encouraged me to call him any time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy has promised to have a
word with Marjorie Taylor Greene about the racist, anti-Semitic, homicidal
thoughts she has publicly expressed. But more importantly for Kevin
McCarthy, he had to go to Florida today to talk to the man who is facing
trial for incitement of insurrection at the United States Capitol.
Here`s what Kevin McCarthy said about Donald Trump`s involvement in that
insurrection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for
Wednesday`s attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately
denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. These facts require
immediate action by President Trump. Accept his share of responsibility,
quell the brewing unrest and ensure President-elect Biden is able to
successfully begin his term.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: The cowardly Kevin did not say a word of that to Donald Trump
today. Kevin McCarthy released a statement saying, today, President Trump
committed to helping elect Republicans in the house and Senate in 2022.
That commitment is of course worth absolutely nothing because it`s from
Donald Trump.
Kevin McCarthy still hasn`t released a statement saying that Marjorie
Taylor Greene has promised not to encourage the assassination of the
speaker of the house anymore or the assassination of anyone else in the
House of Representatives or anywhere else.
Democratic congressman of Los Angeles, Jimmy Gomez, has introduced a
resolution to expel Marjorie Taylor Greene from the House of
Representatives. Here is what Congressman Gomez told Chris Hayes tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIMMY GOMEZ (D-CA): Marjorie Taylor Greene, a conspiracy theorist and
believes in all sorts of crazy things. The worst thing is she`s incited
crowds in the past to storm the capitol, to go after Nancy Pelosi. They
were even chanting hang Mike Pence. And now she`s still a member of
Congress. So, I believe she is a clear and present danger to the members of
the House of Representatives just simply for the fact she also is able to
bring a gun to the House office buildings, and she`s walked around the
metal detectors going to the floor.
There`s a strong sense that something worse than January 6th could happen
if she continues in office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Today, Nancy Pelosi said there is no difference between Marjorie
Taylor Greene and Kevin McCarthy and the rest of the Republican leadership
in Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: What I`m concerned about is
the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives who is willing to
overlook, ignore those statements, assigning her to the education committee
when she has mocked the killing of little children at Sandy Hook Elementary
School, when she has mocked the killing of teenagers in high school at the
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
What could they be thinking? Or is thinking too generous a word for what
they might be doing? It`s absolutely appalling, and I think that the focus
has to be on the Republican leadership of this House of Representatives for
the disregard they have for the death of those children.
As someone who would mock, call it a fake -- those fake events -- is just
beyond -- it`s just beyond any understanding of any regard that the House
Republicans would have for the House of Representatives, for the Congress
of the United States and for the heartbreak of the families in Sandy Hook
and at Marjory Stoneman High School.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Leading off our discussion tonight, former Congressman David
Jolly. He left the Republican Party in 2018. He`s an MSNBC political
analyst.
Also with us, Jennifer Palmieri, former White House communications director
for President Obama, Hillary Clinton`s presidential campaign. She hosts
podcast "Just Something About Her" from "The Recount".
David Jolly, let me begin with you tonight because those are your former
colleagues on the Republican side of the aisle and the House that Nancy
Pelosi is talking about tonight. What is the difference between Kevin
McCarthy and the new members who -- some of whom, one of whom, has
advocated the assassination of Nancy Pelosi?
DAVID JOLLY, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Apparently nothing. Kevin McCarthy
and Republican leaders should publicly condemn Marjorie Taylor Greene. They
should eject her from the House Republican conference, refuse to seat her
on any committees and isolate her from any support of the party apparatus
or the friendly donors that typically support Republican members.
Lawrence, here`s why Marjorie Taylor Greene is dangerous. The FBI, for the
first time in may of 2019, warned that it was not just the white
nationalists, not just the white supremacists that were creating a domestic
terrorism danger. It was the conspiracy theory groups that were fuelling
that constituency. When Christopher Wray, the FBI director testified last
September before the homeland security committee, he said it is the
conspiracy theory groups that are fueling the anger of the white
nationalist groups. It`s the conspiracy groups that are creating the threat
to our government.
And Marjorie Taylor Greene, one of the members of these conspiracy theory
groups has now been elevated to the United States Congress. What fed the
lies of the January 6th event was not just the president of the United
States but this dangerous conspiracy ridden online community of which
Marjorie Taylor Greene has shown herself to be a champion.
Kevin McCarthy may not listen to me and my advice to eject Marjorie Taylor
Greene from the House Republican Congress, but he should listen to the FBI
director. She is a danger not just to the Congress but to the country.
O`DONNELL: Jennifer Palmieri, I want to get your read of this first week of
the Biden administration and specifically Jen Psaki. I was thinking of you
in the last hour when Rachel was interviewing Jen Psaki. You have a similar
experience working in the White House. You know how to judge these things
and how well it`s going.
She`s going to be the face, in many ways, of the Biden agenda on a daily
basis with the news media. That Biden agenda is going up to a Congress that
is equally divided almost in the Senate, slight advantage to the Democrats.
Democrats have advantage in the House. But with this very strong Republican
opposition that includes this wild edge, this wild and dangerous edge of
the Republican Party that is present both in the House and the Senate.
When you`re at that White House podium and you`re trying to get the kind of
attention that she`s trying to get on the Biden agenda, how do you do that
when you know what is happening right outside -- basically outside of that
room and Capitol Hill and the way it`s being received up there?
JENNIFER PALMIERI, CO-HOST, SHOWTIME`S "THE CIRCUS": So, I think they`ve
done a great job. It`s only been a week and I`m sure they have a lot of
tough days ahead of them. But you can tell Jennifer Psaki works -- this is
her second White House. People like Ron Klain, it`s their third White
House. People like Ryan Deese, national economic adviser, it`s his third
White House.
Joe Biden has decades and decades of experience. These are people who know
what they`re doing. They know that Jen has had a remarkable first week at
the podium. But you also know they`re not going to be the show that the
Trump White House was, right?
So, they need to be constantly on air. They need to be -- they need to have
lots of voices at the podium that are speaking on different issues to make
-- to try to have as much reach as possible to show the breadth of the work
they`re doing. I thought it was very smart that they are working with
Congress.
With Psaki started her press briefing yesterday, I noted she went out of
the way to talk about the meetings they`re having on the hill but also with
mayors to show their outreach isn`t just retained to Republicans on the
Hill or even just to Washington, D.C. that they`re talking to lot of people
to show when push comes to shove. They got caught trying. They`re showing
they`re putting the work in.
While they`re working with congress, they`re doing executive actions and
show they`re making progress for the American people day after day after
day. We`re on day 7. Each day it`s something new. It`s a shock and awe
response and it comes from a response that knows what they`re doing.
They`ll have tough days, but I think they are off to a great start. And it
shows how much experience that they have on the policy and communications
front.
O`DONNELL: Jennifer, I have to say your Showtime`s "The Circus", you get
video we don`t see anywhere else. You have a shot of Jen Psaki before her
first White House briefing. She`s backstage. She`s about to open the door
to go out there.
It was as it would have been done in the movie, and I hope everyone can go
find it. It`s a wonderful moment. Before that door opens, we`re all as
excited as she is as what`s going to happen when she steps out there. Just
beautifully done.
David Jolly, Jennifer Palmieri, thank you both for starting us off tonight.
Really appreciate it. Thank you.
Coming up, Jason Crow is dealing with the enemy within in the House of
Representatives every day. Congressman Crow joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Congresswoman Susan Wild was terrified during the invasion of
the capitol, but it would have been much worse if Jason Crow wasn`t holding
her hand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SUSAN WILD (D), PENNSYLVANIA: What was going through my head was
frankly terror. Unlike Jason, I don`t have combat experience. I`m very
grateful to have been in the foxhole with Jason. It`s the closest I have
ever come to something like that.
And I will tell you that what`s going -- it was a scene of total confusion
and chaos, at least for somebody who had never been in that kind of
experience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: But our next guest, Jason Crow, can`t protect every member of
congress, especially now that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says the enemy is
within the House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: We want to have a scientific approach to how we protect members. I
do believe and I have said this all along, that we will probably need a
supplemental for more security for members when the enemy is within the
House of Representatives, a threat that members are concerned about in
addition to what is happening outside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Currently, there is no budget and there has never been a budget
for providing individual security to members of the House of
Representatives or to senators. They don`t get body guards in Washington or
back in their home districts. And the one place they always thought they
never had to be worried was inside the House of Representatives. Nancy
Pelosi left no doubt about what she meant when she said the enemy is
within.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What exactly did you mean when you said, the enemy is within.
What did you mean by that?
PELOSI: It means we have members of Congress that want to bring guns on the
floor and have threatened violence on other members of Congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: She is, of course, talking about Marjorie Taylor Greene and
other Republican members of Congress who have tried to bring guns on to the
House floor. "Politico" is reporting the Republican House staffer who works
for one of the extremist member who is voted to overturn the election
results has received multiple calls from constituent who is say the rioters
didn`t inflict enough damage and there should have been more people
storming the Capitol.
Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. He`s a
member of the House Armed Services Committee.
Congressman Crow, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. What is
the feeling in the House of Representatives, and what do you think is
needed in the House of Representatives now about security in the aftermath
of the capitol invasion?
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Hi, Lawrence. Yeah, things are very tense. There`s
obviously still a lot of security here on Capitol Hill. We want to see
change. We have to see change. You know, what happened on January 6th was
obviously a catastrophic security failure. There`s no doubt about that.
But I think the challenge that we face right now is we have to address that
security situation. We have to address this threat of domestic homegrown
terrorism that we see, but we have to do it in a way that doesn`t change
who we are. That`s what I want to see.
I don`t think we should let this violent mob, this group of terrorists
change who we are as a Congress and as a people. So, we have to make sure
we`re taking that into account. There`s a lot of things we can do to change
security and make Capitol Hill to provide security for members. There`s a
comprehensive security assessment underway right now, so we`ll have to see
what comes out of that assessment and what we have to do. Also remember
this is the people`s house and that accessibility and transparency is
essential to who we are.
O`DONNELL: What about security for members of Congress when they`re outside
of Washington, when they`re in their home states, their home districts or
traveling anywhere in the United States?
CROW: Yeah, I think we`re going to have to settle into a new normal here at
least in the next couple of months. The bottom line is this that President
Trump has radicalized an entire wing of the far right. You know, we have an
extremist right wing movement that has been radicalized, that is armed,
that is extremely dangerous. We saw that on January 6th, and it`s not new.
It`s been around for decades, the foundations and beginnings of it around
for many decades.
But President Trump brought it out in the open and has romanticized it and
given them license and permission to sow their violence throughout the
country. So, we`re going to have to make sure we are being extra diligent,
that we have resources available to members to make sure they and their
families are safe. That`s the new normal. That`s the unfortunate reality of
what we`re in.
We have to do that while we also understand that accessibility to our
constituents is essential to our democracy and our job. So, we`re going to
have to do both of those and we`re going to have to figure out how to do
them both.
O`DONNELL: All 50 governors have securities because they`re commanders of
their own state police. Some of them have bigger security entourages than
others. Hundred of mayors have security because they have their own police
departments, their local police departments that are with them at their
side all the time. And it always shocks people when I tell them, I have
this conversation privately all the time, that no, there`s absolutely zero
security for the United States senator, zero security for Jason Crow and
the members of the house of representatives.
And after what we saw on January 6th, is there anything resembling a plan
to do anything about that?
CROW: Well, the planning is underway right now. There is a comprehensive
assessment that has been commissioned by the House leadership. General
Honore is leading that. It`s my understanding that`s going to be done by
March 5th, and based on that conference and assessment, not just in Capitol
Hill, but of members` security, then we`re going to determine what we need
to do.
So it has to be fact-based. It has to look at things holistically. But, you
know, I am still a little bit -- I`m grieving a little bit for this new
environment because, you know, I used to carry a gun. I used to carry a gun
for work in Iraq and Afghanistan for you our country, to defend our country
and our freedoms.
Then I left the service. I took my uniform off and left that life behind me
and started a family, became a veterans` advocate, became a member of
Congress. And I never thought that I would be in an environment where I
would have to have armed security and guards and have, you know, guns to
protect me and my family. That`s never the way I wanted to live and that`s
never the way I envisioned American democracy and elected officials acting
or having to act and have available to them.
So, I`m still frankly kind of personally grieving about the environment
that we`re in right now. So, we have to figure this out. I don`t have the
answer to it right now. The bottom line is there has to be some change. We
have to make sure we`re protecting ourselves, our families, our
communities, our constituents in the Capitol.
At the same time, how do we reconcile that against our need for
accountability and accessibility and transparency and to not become, you
know, a fortified government. Because that`s not the way we want to be.
That`s not the way we want to live.
I think we have to figure that out. That is a leadership challenge and I
don`t think anyone has the answer to it right now.
O`DONNELL: Let me just say I certainly don`t have the answer to it. When I
was working in the Congress and the Senate, it was a much calmer time than
now. And I grieve with you about the loss of just what it used to feel like
to work there before January 6th.
Congressman Jason Crow, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
CROW: Yeah, thanks, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Coming up, most people who qualify for the COVID vaccine are having
trouble, to put it mildly, getting an appointment to get that vaccine. Dr.
Fauci says it might be time to create a new vaccine to deal with the new
variants. Dr. Peter Hotez joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS
DISEASES: We are already planning and implementing making a modified
version of the vaccine that would ultimately be able to be directed
specifically against the South African isolate, which is the most
problematic of them all.
So, on the one hand, things looking a bit better about plateauing, but on
the other hand we can have some difficult times that we have to be prepared
for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School
of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and director of the
center for vaccine development at Texas Children`s Hospital in Houston.
Dr. Hotez, thank you very much for joining us tonight. What did we just
hear Dr. Fauci suggesting that we need a new vaccine to deal with the South
African variant? What does that mean for people who already have the
vaccine that doesn`t deal with that variant?
DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: Well, so Lawrence, well sort
of. So, the -- so we`re also developing a recombinant protein vaccine
that`s being scaled to a billion doses in India right now with Biological E
in Hyderabad being tested across India.
So, it`s clear that the existing vaccine in the long run won`t be adequate
for the South African variant. It`ll give partial protection, some
protection to varying degrees. But we`re going to have to make two
vaccines.
And so how do you handle that? What it means like -- there`s two options.
One, you now administer a combination vaccine, what some people call a bi-
valent vaccine. Or you move out the existing vaccine you have knowing that
you still have some time and down the line you`re going to give a boost
corresponding to new South African variant. And I think that`s probably
going to be the more common option.
So it`s not terrible news. We still have time. But this is going to be
something to watch very closely. But we`re going to have new variants and
the South African one looks different enough from the existing one that
we`re seeing lower levels of protection.
We saw this with the Novavax report today that it gave 90 percent
protection against the one it was designed for and only about 50 percent to
60 percent for the new one. Still ok but in the long run if you know this
is going to become the dominant variant down the line, we`re going to have
to make an additional one.
O`DONNELL: So, the consumer end of the getting the vaccine is a wildly
differing experience around the country. Some people getting emails from
their local hospitals saying, hey, come on and set up on appointment. It`s
really easy. Others struggling, staying up until 3:00 in the morning hoping
the Internet traffic is down so they can find an appointment.
I`ve heard from people who are really thrilled and excited that they
finally managed to get an appointment for next week. And now they`re
learning tonight the vaccine they`re going to be get next week will not be
good enough to deal with the South African variant.
And I think what you just said, and let`s make sure we leave this clear for
the audience. If you get that first shot next week, when you go in for your
second shot or somewhere down the road there`s going to have to be another
shot that will deal with the South African variant.
DR. HOTEZ: So, the take home message, Lawrence, is nothing changes in the
immediate future. You want to go ahead, get your vaccine, get those two
doses. But down the line, there may be a need for a third immunization, a
boost. And if that boost is done, it may be against the South African
variant.
And just to keep everybody calm, remember that we thought there was a
pretty high likelihood we might have to give a third immunization down the
line, anyway at some point because we had no idea about the durability of
any protection of any of these vaccines, especially the new technology
vaccines.
Do they last for three months, three years or 30 years? So everyone was
pretty confident we were going to need a third immunization down the line
anyway. And all we`re really saying is that third immunization is going to
have to be with -- probably specifically directed against the South African
variant.
That`s the scenario that`s looking the most plausible. Right now the one
we`re mostly in discussions with our vaccine and the other vaccine
developers are as well.
O`DONNELL: That is an invaluable update to vaccine news.
Dr. Peter Hotez, thank you very much for joining us with that tonight.
Really appreciate it.
DR. HOTEZ: My pleasure, Lawrence. Thanks.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Coming up, Joe Biden got an invaluable gift on inauguration day -- the
resignations of some federal judges. Dahlia Lithwick joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: On inauguration day, President Biden got the most precious gift
he is legally allowed to accept from Victoria Roberts, it was a resignation
letter. Victoria Roberts is a federal judge in Michigan who wrote her
resignation letter on January 20th and ended it with this line, "With
respect, I congratulate you on your election as the 46th president of the
United States, and Kamala Harris on her election as vice president."
Victoria Roberts is one of the several federal judges who was waiting for
Donald Trump to be out of the White House before retiring and allowing the
president to choose a replacement. Some other federal judges sent their
resignation letters directly to Biden on or about inauguration day.
The United States Senate has never had a more important first year agenda
of a president since 1933 when Franklin Roosevelt took office in the depths
of the depression. Yes, the Senate will have an impeachment trial of Donald
Trump. Yes the Senate will be trying to pass another COVID relief package.
Yes, the Senate will be trying to deal with climate change. Yes, the Senate
will be passing a massive budget deal that will repeal the Trump tax cuts
for rich people which they haven`t even started talking about yet. And the
Senate will have many more less visible legislative fights going on every
day.
But through it all every day, the Democratic Senate and the Senate
Judiciary Committee on the Senate floor will be trying to deliver
confirmations of the most important appointments Joe Biden can make --
federal judges.
Joining us now is Dahlia Lithwick, senior editor and legal correspondent
for slate.com and host of the podcast "Amicus".
Dahlia, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
When I read Victoria Roberts` resignation letter and a few of the others,
they`re kind of playful. I mean they`re almost, you know, putting little
hearts on them. It`s like they`re so thrilled that they can deliver this
resignation to Joe Biden and give him this opportunity to make these
appointments.
And some of them, you know, are at an age where they might have liked
resigning a few years ago but they waited. And the moment came on January
20th.
DAHLIA LITHWICK, SENIOR EDITOR/LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, SLATE.COM: It`s true,
Lawrence.
I think the only caveat to your greatest gift Biden could have gotten is
the other gift he got which was the Senate, which was those two Georgia
seats. Because I think no matter how many judges retired, if he didn`t have
the Senate this was going to be a massive fight.
And so, I think you`re quite right. As soon as the ink was signed that
those Georgia seats were his and that the Senate was his, I think you`re
going to see an immense number of judges step aside. And I wouldn`t be
surprised if you saw some Bush judges, some moderate conservative
Republicans who have been just horrified -- as horrified as the Democrat
appointees at what`s happened to the court.
O`DONNELL: Well, yes, some of the recent resignations do include Bush
judges and some of them are Clinton judges. But they clearly were waiting
and they clearly wanted to see a president who they could trust make a
responsible appointment.
Chuck Schumer and the Democrats in the Senate Judiciary Committee, I have
to believe, have learned the lesson of Mitch McConnell, which is run this
like a high speed factory, get as many of these done as possible as fast as
possible.
LITHWICK: I think so, Lawrence. And I think you started with this really
essential point which is that Obama didn`t do this. We know that Obama
decided in his first year not to expend capital on judges.
He decided to do the economy. He decided to do the Affordable Care Act. And
boy are we living with the consequences of that? And so I think that
understanding that it was a juggernaut and that a third of the bench -- I
mean it`s extraordinary how successful Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell
were at these lifetime appointees, how many circuits they completely
flipped. I think that if Schumer and the Dems haven`t learned the lesson
now that this is really essential number one, put it with all the other
number ones, then I think we`re going to be in trouble.
O`DONNELL: When Rachel talked to Chuck Schumer the other night, she brought
up the Presidential Commission on the Judiciary. Joe Biden has -- Bob Bauer
is going to be the chair of that, some other law professors have already
been named. He`ll be on it.
But it`ll probably be a group, they don`t even know how many yet -- a
dozen, maybe 15 -- who will consider a lot of things about the judiciary,
including expanding the United States Supreme Court.
Chuck Schumer wasn`t eager to talk about that and was able to say to
Rachel, quite honestly, he will wait the six months or so it takes for that
group to issue a report. What do you expect -- what do you expect to be in
a report like that -- can we tell at this stage -- on the question of
expanding the size of the Supreme Court?
LITHWICK: We don`t know, as you said, even really who`s on the commission.
I think we know that at least one person, Caroline Frederickson, who`s on
the commission, has spoken positively about court expansion.
We also know that Bob Bauer himself has talked about maybe term limits or
other forms of serious court reform.
So, I don`t know. We may just get a kind of huge wish list of the 52 things
you can do -- jurisdiction stripping and term limits and all the other
things you can do -- without a laser focus on court expansion which is so
controversial.
I think we`ll probably get a very, very comprehensive report. And then
really the question is going to be, does Biden -- given that he may not
have the filibuster behind him -- does he kind of go big or go small on
this? And the hope is that he goes big.
O`DONNELL: Well, yes and at minimum there will be this scholarly document
that will take us through the history of how we got to nine and why we`ve
been stuck at nine for so long on the Supreme Court.
And then that number didn`t come from heaven. It was arbitrary and remains
arbitrary.
We`re out of time on this for tonight but we`ll have you back -- and a
minimum when they issue that report and several times before.
Dahlia Lithwick, thank you very much for joining. Really appreciate it.
LITHWICK: Take care, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: Thank you.
Coming up, thousands were arrested in Russia for protesting the jailing of
Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. Among those arrested were three
members of the group, Pussy Riot. The group`s cofounder, Nadya
Tolokonnikova will join us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O`DONNELL: Here is Secretary of State Tony Blinken in his first State
Department press briefing today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It remains striking to me how
concerned and maybe even scared the Russian government seems to be of one
man, Mr. Navalny. His voice is the voice of many, many, many Russians and
it should be heard, not muzzled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O`DONNELL: Alexei Navalny was immediately jailed by Vladimir Putin when he
returned to Russia on January 17th after five months of recovery in Germany
from a deadly poisoning that he says was ordered by Vladimir Putin.
Protests erupted in Russia last weekend in support of Alexei Navalny. It
was one of the largest anti-Putin protest in his 21 years in power. Mr.
Navalny`s brother, Oleg was arrested and detained for 48 hours.
Russian police raided the homes of several of Mr. Navalny`s allies.
Anastasia Vasiliyeva (ph) did not stop playing the piano when the police
raided her home.
Russian protests had a theatrical element to it since 2012 when the women
of Pussy Riot received international recognition and prison sentences after
they performed an anti-Putin protest song at a Moscow cathedral.
Pussy Riot`s latest protest video, music video is called "Rage". It was
filmed in St. Petersburg where some of the people in the video were
arrested for participating in it. The video will be released on Monday.
Here is some of the video.
(VIDEO CLIP OF PUSSY RIOT`S LATEST PROTEST VIDEO)
O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Nadya Tolokonnikova, founding member of Pussy
Riot.
Nadya, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I want to get your
reaction to what it means to Vladimir Putin when President Biden talks to
him about the poisoning of Alexei Navalny. The White House notes on the
phone call said that President Biden talked to Vladimir Putin about the
poisoning of Alexei Navalny.
What affect does that have on Vladimir Putin and in Russia?
NADYA TOLOKONNIKOVA, FOUNDING MEMBER, PUSSY RIOT: Thank you for having me.
And from the point of the protesters, I must say it`s really important work
for the international leaders to be involved in what is happening currently
in Russia. It really helps us because we are fighting for democracy and
international involvement helps us.
Putin is deeply scared of the international pressure. He might try to put
stone face on himself and may try to appear as a person who does not care.
But in fact, he deeply cares about what other leaders think of him.
So if it`s Joe Biden or Angela Merkel, it`s really effective when
international leaders put pressure on him about political prisoners in
Russia.
O`DONNELL: You told me yesterday that it`s been a very emotional time for
you this week especially one of your partners, Masha, was arrested and
detained. I think she is still detained. We have video of her being
arrested right there. Do you know what her situation is now?
TOLOKONNIKOVA: It`s deeply emotional to me because Masha is arrested
seriously for the first time since 2012. In 2012 we were arrested and put
in isolator, in the same isolator where Masha is detained currently.
And it`s not one of the normal arrests that is happening with us every day
in Russia. It`s a serious arrest right now. It`s a serious arrest with
criminal charges and she is facing two years in jail which is ultimately my
deepest nightmare. And I still up to this date, years after my release from
prison, I have this nightmares of me coming back to jail and this is a
nightmare where Masha lives right now.
We don`t know what`s going to happen later, in a day we will hear more
news. But it is likely unfortunately that Masha will end up in jail again.
O`DONNELL: You told me the first time we talked that one of the reasons why
you didn`t have to serve your full prison sentence, you did more than a
year in a very difficult Russian prison which is a forced labor prison by
the way.
I mean, that is something we could talk about at length, is what you have
to go through when you are in one of these prisons. But the reason you got
out was because of pressure put on Russia and put on Putin directly by
foreign leaders.
TOLOKONNIKOVA: It incredibly helps. I cannot stress it enough. Right before
our release, there was Olympic Games coming. So, the reason why Putin had
to release us because he did not want to have bad picture in the
international media.
So, the more reaction we have in European and American media, the more
chances that Alexei Navalny and everyone else who was arrested in the last
ten days, they will be released.
O`DONNELL: I know you are very friendly with Alexei Navalny and his wife
who was -- her home was also raided by the Russian police. You visited him,
I know, when he was in the hospital.
Talk about the bravery it takes for him and for you to repeatedly confront
Vladimir Putin, knowing that prison is the very likely outcome of
confronting him?
TOLOKONNIKOVA: On the 17th of January when Navalny sat on the airplane and
went from Berlin to Russia, he committed a radical act of political
bravery. It was one of the most important political actions lately, because
he is showing us that all it takes to be effective in opposing the corrupt
government is just refuse the fear.
And he and his team, because it`s not just Navalny, it`s the whole
constellation of amazing talented (ph) people who are standing behind his
back and the whole Russia crew who doesn`t want to take this corruption
anymore.
It just takes a little thing. You need to control your fear and then later,
the government will not be able to do anything with you. And you have seen
in the last couple of months how Alexei Navalny out-maneuvered Putin at
every turn.
And even after he was jailed, he released this amazing movie about putting
Putin`s giant palace on the Black Sea, which right now has 100 million
views on YouTube.
O`DONNELL: Nadya, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. It is
invaluable for Americans for our audience to hear your voice on this.
Really appreciate it.
TOLOKONNIKOVA: Thank you, Lawrence.
O`DONNELL: That is tonight`s LAST WORD.
"THE 11TH HOUR WITH BRIAN WILLIAMS" starts now.
END
Copyright 2021 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are
protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced,
distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the
prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter
or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the
content.>