Summary
Senator Elizabeth Warren speaks out on the Trump administration and the presidential election. Former Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker discusses the vice presidential debate. Kamala Harris and Mike Pence get set to debate. President Trump returns to work in the Oval Office even as he continues battling COVID-19.
Transcript
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Welcome to THE BEAT. I'm Ari Melber, joining you as the president continues to break his own administration's rules, now flatly breaking the conventional doctor's orders to isolate while contagious.
President Trump literally doing what everyone with COVID has been strictly told not to do, leaving home to go to work, and thus endangering others.
Trump has spent the afternoon at work in the Oval Office with two aides. His decision to violate the medical guidance is not a secret, with a Marine taking the traditional post outside the Oval Office door -- you see it right here -- in every administration. That's the universal sign the president is in.
And the White House confirmed there was a -- basically, that he was working there a few minutes later, building on the chief of staff's comments today that Trump wanted to go to work regardless.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: His schedule right now is fluid. We're looking at his prognosis from a health standpoint. He wanted to go to the Oval yesterday. If he decides to go to the Oval, we have got safety protocols there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Medical experts are dubious, because Trump has been breaking safety protocols before and after he got COVID, from the instantly infamous ride outside Walter Reed, which history may record as one of the most absurd actions by a president under hospital care ever, to the White House's failure to practice basic distancing and contact tracing to protect their own people, as now at least 18 people at COVID.
New to the list, Stephen Miller, one of three aides who tested positive after this walk you see here to Marine One just last week. And today is exactly the time when these facts matter, when the record matters, when the powerful can be put under scrutiny so you can make up your own mind, make up your own vote.
The administration's record on COVID takes center stage, of course, tonight, as the leader of its COVID task force, Mike Pence, is debating Kamala Harris in just a few hours, with -- Pence's record as chairman of the COVID task force is sure to be a focal point.
Joining me now to get into all of that is the Reverend Al Sharpton. He is the host of MSNBC's "POLITICS STATION." He's the founder of the National Action Network. And, as many may recall, he has been on the debate stage himself before and knows what these high-pressure events are like and why they, we're told by many, are harder than they look. We're also joined by Dr. Jennifer Pena, a former White House doctor to Vice President Pence himself and a medical expert.
Good evening to both of you.
REV. AL SHARPTON, HOST, "POLITICS NATION": Good evening.
DR. JENNIFER PENA, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: Good evening.
MELBER: Rev, what is important, in your view, tonight, especially given the medical context that I just mentioned?
SHARPTON: I think what is extremely important is that we're going to have the head of the president's Coronavirus Task Force, the vice president, debating.
And I think that he will have the disadvantage of having to do that while his president who appointed him to that task and who is his running mate has violated every coronavirus protocol that has been announced, has made a mockery of being in quarantine or even in isolation by going on a joyride around the hospital on one day, and then leaving and making a dramatic and -- entry into the exterior steps, stepping up the exterior steps outside the White House, and then tearing off the face mask, and then going to work today.
I don't know how you could have had a worst set of circumstances for Vice President Pence to have to go on that debate stage tonight and face a prosecutor, a trained prosecutor, when I have just given you the bill of particulars how to nail him early, often and all night long.
MELBER: Dr. Pena, from your view, is the president clearly violating the CDC rules and doctor's orders?
PENA: Absolutely.
I mean, today was another example of that lack of attention to preventive measures, just the fact that he was walking around the White House and potentially working back in the Oval Office.
We already know prevention works, wear a mask, social distance. And he's still not out of the woods. As many health professionals, including Dr. Fauci mentioned, we don't know when the last negative test was.
MELBER: Right.
PENA: So, there's still a possibility that he's an active virus shatter and, again, a potential spreader of disease.
MELBER: And there has been no medical briefing since Donald Trump actually left the hospital.
Today, his doctor put out a statement that looked a lot more like -- and we follow this -- a lot more like a publicity statement than a medical one. It said, among other things, that Trump himself said he -- quote -- "felt great."
You don't really need a doctor to repeat hearsay, we call it in court, of the patient.
And then there's these reports from inside what is an anxious White House, where reporters and staff are at risk.
We have "The New York Times" reporting staff wondering out loud whether Trump's behavior was spurred by a cocktail of drugs and steroids he is taking, which can cause mood swings and give a false level of energy and sense of euphoria.
Your thoughts, Doctor?
PENA: Well, regarding the memo, as health care professionals, it is our job to be truthful and transparent with patients. It is not our job to play politics.
I like to say that pills and politics don't mix. It is our job to be consultants and give an accurate account of the person's health. And so publicity stunts really don't impress me regarding an actual medical brief.
In terms of the anxiety around the White House, it's a warranted anxiety. I mean, again, this is a patient, potentially, who is a spreader. We have people who have potentially still not been contacted by the contact tracing effort, or they have not been followed up on.
And you even have a vice president that's about to take the stage, who is somebody who could potentially have been exposed and also eventually test positive. So I'm actually glad to see that Plexiglas was agreed to eventually. But that's still places everybody on that stage at risk today.
MELBER: Yes, you mentioned that. I wanted to get to that.
So, first to the doctor and then to Rev Sharpton.
COVID is something that everyone understands has a global impact, and people are living with it. And yet the Trump campaign -- and this is well-documented -- has tried to spend several weeks changing the topic to anything but.
The existence of that Plexiglas on that stage, seen as a reminder that the vice president, who runs the COVID Task Force, is obviously a risk, because, task force or not, the White House he works in, the boss he works for, the person that he's fighting to get four more years violates all of that.
I'm just curious, Doctor, if you could walk us through your thoughts on that, given the interesting position you have that I mentioned to viewers earlier, that you were a former physician to the vice president.
PENA: Well, I think it's a good reminder to the American people that behind that Plexiglas stands the person in charge of the Coronavirus Task Force, which I suspect will be a very vivid topic during the conversation today, as it should be.
And, again, it also reminds people that this should be a very important topic to talk about, because it doesn't just affect people's health. This has implications regarding health care, you knew the ACA, preexisting conditions and how that's going to come into play for people who have COVID diagnoses and potential symptoms afterwards.
It has implications, social implications. We know that the black and Latino communities have been disproportionately affected by this condition. So, it really has a lot of tentacles, if you will. This is not just talking about a virus and a pandemic.
This has the potential to open up the discussion to so many more topics that are important for this election.
MELBER: Yes, Rev, I'm so curious about what you think, having been on those debate stages, because everyone has ideas before and after the pregame and the Monday-morning quarterbacking. You have done it. It's challenging. You have to pick your moments.
You had some zingers. We have talked about those on this program before.
And Ari Fleischer, who's a Republican who obviously knows his way around the White House and communications, he said this today: "If Trump returns to the White House, he will be tempted to go to the Oval. He can't do that."
Excuse me. This is from Monday.
"He can't break quarantine or do things the rest of us aren't supposed to do if we get COVID. How he handles himself is a metaphor for how he handles the nation. This White House must realize that."
Like so many other tweets, Reverend, this felt like a plaintive cry. He's hoping the Republican White House realizes it. They don't. This tweet hasn't aged well, given that they're violating all of that.
But your thoughts about how important it is in storytelling, in the challenge tonight on that debate stage, for Kamala Harris to say, do you want to know how their policy works, look at how it fails to protect them?
SHARPTON: Absolutely.
It gives the storyline to Kamala. And you really don't know, if you're Vice President Pence, how you defend it. The narrative that the Republicans and the president and vice president have tried to sell is that everything is all right, it's not as bad as you think.
Trump comes out of the hospital and say, don't let it dominate your life. So, that's why he goes to the Oval Office today. He's trying to sell this. We have 200 -- over 211,000 people have died, millions infected.
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: Well, Rev, you would you say those 211,000 people let it dominate their life? They're not with us anymore.
SHARPTON: It ended their life.
MELBER: Yes.
SHARPTON: It ended their life. That's how much it dominated.
But the setting -- and I'm looking at it if I was on that stage, as I was in '04 with the primary debates -- the setting is, he's got to defend this through Plexiglas.
I mean, the visual will cancel out anything. It's like me sitting in jail looking through the bars talking about I might go on vacation. You look like you're out of your mind looking through a Plexiglas trying to tell everything -- tell everybody that everyone's all right. That's one.
Secondly, he has no idea what this president may be doing while he's talking. I mean, can you imagine sitting on stage, and you have Twitter in chief that may be undermining anything you're saying? Like, he may tweet in the middle of the debate, I have changed my mind again about having COVID relief. Oh, let's change it back. I want to help the airline.
This man is not well in a normal circumstance. Who knows what the medicine is doing to him. And for you to have to get up there and have to defend that case almost makes me feel sorry for Vice President Pence.
The only reason I don't is, he's in charge of it. He is the co-pilot of this disastrous flight we're on.
MELBER: All well put, and clearly so.
And just for the record, Rev, you're almost sorry for Vice President Pence?
SHARPTON: Almost, and stress almost. As a matter of fact, put it in capitals.
MELBER: Capital letters, almost. Got it.
I also want to play somebody from the speaker of the House, because we are in -- we have we have said it before, but we are in this time where, if it was the end of the movie, and the pandemic was inside the White House, not only hitting the president, but infecting him, it couldn't work. It would feel farfetched.
And so the speaker is arguing, Doctor, that this is literally become more dangerous than other places that obviously have less funding, fewer guards, but follow the rules. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Is it time to pick up the phone? Do you want to go over to the White House? What's the best way to work this out now that he said he's going to do it?
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I wouldn't go anywhere near the White House. It's one of the most dangerous places in the country, both in terms of the assault it makes on truth, as well as health.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Doctor is that, in your view, medically sound or an overstatement?
PENA: Well, I would like to say the latter, but I have to believe in the former, again, given what we saw in the last few days, joyrides, masks off, walking around the White House. It really has become the center of the most recent seeding event.
And I would like to echo the reverend in terms of the comment about the presidency saying, don't let this dominate you.
I would like to tell the American people, don't let arrogance dominate you. It is arrogant to think that anybody is going to be safe from this virus. And, as a medical professional, I have to remind people as well the patient's experience when you're a president is a very different experience than every other patient's experience.
So you cannot use that as a norm of what your experience would be if you were, in fact, infected with this virus.
MELBER: Yes.
And there's also been -- of course, the attention on the contact tracing and these other errors raise the question of other people's vulnerability, which goes with what Rev said should be a big issue tonight,
I want to read -- this is very serious stuff, the Daily Beast that the White House, without trying to drum up too much notice, was quietly trying to tell veterans groups it might have also exposed them to COVID, warning, on Friday, the earliest known outreach to visitors at the complex, there was a risk of the virus emerging from the grounds.
Your view, Doctor, of how they're handling all this?
PENA: Well, I'm glad that they have finally increased the contact tracing and actually partnered with the CDC to try to reach the people who have been contacted, potentially.
But, at the beginning, that was not the case. Sadly, it was a very reactive strategy, rather than a proactive strategy. It required a lot of members of the senior staff to become infected for this to actually trigger.
MELBER: Yes.
PENA: And so I'm glad that it's happening now, but it should have happened before.
Prevention is the key. And, again, it should be more of a proactive strategy, not reactive.
MELBER: All sound points, Dr. Pena, a former physician to Vice President Pence and a medical expert. Appreciate you.
Reverend Sharpton, on a lighter note, sir, we will check in with you in the coming days ahead. If you find that Vice President Pence does poorly enough tonight, perhaps, eventually, you will go to full sorry for him. But only time will tell, sir.
SHARPTON: We will see.
I hope they start feeling sorry for the American people, and start dealing with COVID relief, and start giving us a real coherent platform of how we deal with this virus.
I would much rather see them feel sorry for the American people.
MELBER: I hear you on that. And that's a point of unity, nonpartisanship, I think that is well-needed right now.
Again, my thanks to both of you.
We have our shortest break, just 30 seconds.
And then I'm joined tonight by Senator Elizabeth Warren in the program.
We also have a look at Mike Pence's record, issues that could come up tonight.
But, up next: Michelle Goldberg from "The New York Times." We're going to get into all the latest on 2020 in 30 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: It's debate night, and I am joined right now by "New York Times" columnist Michelle Goldberg. She has been writing about a White House infected with propaganda.
Good to see you, Michelle.
MICHELLE GOLDBERG, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Hey, good to see you, Ari.
MELBER: I'm going to bring up -- I think we have -- I'm talking to the control room -- the first thing I want to get into with you -- I think we have this -- which is regarding a lot of the metrics and indicators that have been coming up.
Do we have that, you guys? Yes.
Let me show this, polling that shows Biden now by a wide margin, Michelle, people say, 24 points, he won the debate. Approval of his handling of this pandemic, the president, meanwhile, plummeting to a new low of 37 percent. If you thought it should have been lower earlier, fine, but now more people think that.
And then we're tracking actual metrics in voting. Those are some general polls.
And when you look at, this is remarkable. We had 75,000 this early out voting in '16. This is very early traditionally. Now we're in a pandemic. And five million-plus people have already voted. This is part one of this story, Michelle, and, objectively, it looks like bad news for Trump.
Part two, I want to get to with more nuance, but your view of this first set of data?
GOLDBERG: Yes, I mean, and you could go on and on, right? There's other data. There's data about Democrats' just unbelievable fund-raising, the fact that you see Republicans having to put money into states like Kansas and Iowa and South Carolina, of all places.
So, yes, right -- there's been a number of double-digit polls for Joe Biden, including one from Rasmussen, which typically leans Republican. And so Democrats should continue to be wary. They should continue -- they should take nothing for granted. I think they will continue to be traumatized by 2016.
But, just objectively right now, Donald Trump is very far behind.
MELBER: Yes, and just briefly, to build on your point, he's far behind in the head-to-head, but he also has the kind of -- the kind of drag that is, I think -- there's signs that it is different than 16 just in how much negativity there is about his actual performance, right, which is different than the non-incumbent contest, where two people, you're talking about how you feel about them.
Having said that, I want to bring something else I think people really need to understand, whether you like it or not, or you want to tweet back at us.
Michelle, this is something you and I touched on briefly, and I have updated numbers in these battleground states, where Trump did win narrowly last time. We want to compare Biden's relatively narrowly to what Hillary Clinton had in these key states.
In Florida. Biden is just two points above where Clinton was at this time in '16. Her lead didn't hold. She went on to lose. In North Carolina, Clinton was polling about a point higher than Biden is now there. And in Ohio, Clinton was about two points higher than Biden is now, both basically tied, in the margin of error, with Trump.
Michelle, these are the kinds of states, unlike, say, a Michigan, which a Democrat must win -- those are states that tend to put Democrats over 270. They're states that Obama benefited from.
Your view of what it means that this state polling, unlike the national sort of narrative, suggests that Joe Biden does not have anything like an insurmountable lead or maybe neck and neck?
GOLDBERG: Well, look, he definitely doesn't have an insurmountable lead.
I think, if you look at the most recent numbers from FiveThirtyEight, I believe they say that Trump has, I think a 16 or 17 percent chance of winning the election at this point. If you go to the doctor and they say you're probably going to be fine, but you have a 16 or 17 percent chance of dying, you're not going to sleep well that night.
So, yes, Donald Trump could still win the election. I think that one thing that's very different this year than 2016, even if the spread in the polls looks different, is the absolute figures, right?
So, Donald Trump -- so Joe Biden's lead over Donald Trump, if you look at some of the averages isn't that different than Hillary Clinton's lead over Donald Trump in some of the averages at this point in 2016.
But in terms of absolute numbers, Joe Biden just has many more voters, right? So he's, I think, at 51 percent in one of the averages in Pennsylvania, which means that there's just a lot fewer undecided voters that can break Trump's way
Trump would have to win -- well, there's not enough undecided voters in Pennsylvania for him to win, if these numbers hold. In some of these other states, he would have to basically win all of the undecided voters in order -- in order to be put over the top.
And things could change, right? Polls are just a snapshot in time.
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: But let's pause and break down the way you're explaining this.
It's sort of like, we're on the debate headline on the screen, but we're shifting here to the second point, which is the potential warning signs, beyond the debate. So most people think, writ large, Trump lost the debate. They don't like that. They think he's bad on COVID. They don't like that.
You're explaining why, if people then further go into supporting Biden at that level, you're saying it's a big problem to reverse that. They would have to, what, change their minds, and that's unlikely in this moment?
GOLDBERG: Well, I think, yes, it's unlikely.
I think that when you look at the polls from 2016, what you see is that Hillary Clinton is ahead, but you have a large number of voters who are undecided. And those voters broke for Trump and a lot of places.
Here, people seem to be much more locked in. So it's not that Trump -- it's not that Trump just has to win over the undecideds. In Pennsylvania, he would also have to win some people back from Biden, which is a difficult thing to do, because in polls, almost 50 percent of people in some polls say that there is no chance they would consider voting for Donald Trump.
So, look, things could still change. You could still imagine Bill Barr or some other actor dropping some sort of October surprise. We have got almost four more weeks.
But, right now, objectively, I just think, if things -- Democrats are traumatized. But if things were reversed, right, if you had polls coming out that showed Trump beating Biden by 14, 16 points, if Biden was pulling down ads in the Midwest, right, if we were defending Connecticut and New York and California, Democrats would be traumatized.
They would be rending their garments. They would be in utter despair. And so I think you should -- although Democrats are inclined to worry, just objectively, they're in a much, much better position than they were in 2016, and a far better position than Republicans are.
MELBER: Yes, really good context on a night when more perceptions will be formed. We know there have been record-breaking viewership, as citizens shape up and decide on these candidates, the decisions you're talking about.
Michelle, thank you so much.
GOLDBERG: Thank you so much.
MELBER: We have a lot more in tonight's show -- absolutely -- questions swirling about Trump's health.
Senator Elizabeth Warren joins us live next, when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): I will work with anyone, Democrat, Republican, independent, libertarian, vegetarian, if they will work for America's families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Now Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren showing us some of your debate chops.
Thanks for joining me. I will note that you, of course, debated Joe Biden and Kamala Harris when you were a presidential candidate in the 2020 primaries. Plenty of experience. This is a big night.
Thanks for joining us.
WARREN: It's nice to be here. Good to see you, Ari.
MELBER: Good to see you.
I will ask you something we alluded to earlier tonight. I have never been up on the stage like you, but I worked for two senators. I have heard that debates are actually a lot harder than they look. There's a microscope on every little thing.
Your personal experience and what you have an eye on tonight?
WARREN: I see tonight as, Kamala is going to have a chance just to get out there and talk about the central issue in this upcoming election. And that is health care, health care, health care, health care, health care.
Look, the Republicans are trying to take away health care from tens of millions of people. The Republicans and Donald Trump have put the health of Americans at risk by Trump's failure to deal with the coronavirus and his willingness just to put people personally at risk himself.
And that permits Kamala to have a home base to go to over and over and over, to talk to the American people about this.
And let's be blunt. What is Pence going to be able to say about this? That they didn't fumble the ball for the last seven months? They fumbled the ball.
And here's the thing. This isn't an abstract debate. This is about people dying; 210,000 people have died in this country. We have had the highest death rates in the world, because Donald Trump has been incompetent.
And that's what this debate tonight, I think, will be about.
MELBER: You have had influence over the party. You and Senator Sanders especially tapped into a wing of the party that wants to challenge Wall Street, that wants to deal with these economic issues that far predate this current Trump era.
And that seemed to hang over one of the moments in the debate, which, again, I'm sorry to play it -- I'm sorry to ask you, Senator, to relive even a moment of it -- but it was a policy moment, which I know you care about, where Trump was trying to goad Biden to say, well, maybe it's the Sanders and AOC and the Warrens of the world, if you will, that are going to be calling the shots.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Your party wants to go socialist medicine.
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My party is me.
TRUMP: And socialist health care.
BIDEN: Right now, I am the Democratic Party.
TRUMP: And they're going to dominate you, Joe. You know that.
BIDEN: I am the Democratic Party right now. The platform of the Democratic Party...
TRUMP: Not according to Harris.
BIDEN: ... is what I, in fact, approved of.
There is no manifesto, number one.
CHRIS WALLACE, MODERATOR: Please let him speak, Mr. President.
BIDEN: Number two...
TRUMP: You just lost the left.
BIDEN: Number two...
TRUMP: You just lost the left.
The Green New Deal is $100 trillion...
BIDEN: That is not my plan.
WALLACE: Do you support the Green New Deal?
BIDEN: Pardon me?
WALLACE: Do you support the Green New Deal?
BIDEN: No, I don't support the Green New Deal.
TRUMP: Oh, you don't? Oh, well, that is a big statement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Notwithstanding the insufferable, rule-breaking hectoring, that was about policy.
Your response when Vice President Biden, who's met with you and others about this, says, he's in charge, and some of that stuff he's not for?
WARREN: Well, let's start here.
Biden believes in science. And Trump is just trying to find ways to divide us. Yes, we had a primary of ideas, but we are a party that fundamentally believes in health care, understands that climate change poses an existential risk to our survival.
We are a party that believes that government can be a force for good, if it works on the side of the people.
So, I feel good about both what Kamala is going to talk about tonight, what Joe Biden's going to get a chance to talk about in the subsequent debates. It's about a Democratic Party that wants to make this country work, not just for Donald Trump and a handful of rich buddies and giant corporations, but wants to make it work for everyone.
MELBER: You mentioned wealth, which cuts through all these issues.
"The New York Times" had some reporting I did want to get your views on. It's something you have discussed in the past. How much would Donald Trump's coronavirus treatment cost most Americans? Over $100,000 in our health system. You would have significant surprise bills, medical debt well after a health insurance company paid its share.
Your view of that? And is that something that should be on the table tonight with the leader of the task force there?
WARREN: It absolutely should be on the table tonight.
So, Donald Trump gets $100,000 of medical care paid for by the taxpayers. And can we just underline here, that's the same Donald Trump who paid, what was it, a couple years ago $750 in taxes, and yet expects full government health care.
Look, I don't begrudge him health care. What I -- what infuriates me is when Donald Trump wants to suck up health care and doesn't want to pay taxes, and then wants to turn around and say to the rest of America, hey, you're not going to get that same kind of health care.
That's what's fundamentally wrong. How many families tonight are struggling thinking about whether or not they're going to have to make the choice between paying medical bills and paying the rent, paying medical bills and putting food on the table, because they didn't have adequate health care coverage when someone in their family got hit by the COVID crisis?
This is on Donald Trump, the COVID crisis, the fallout on medical bills, and the fact that he doesn't want to pay his taxes and doesn't want billionaires to pay their taxes to pay a fair share to help support this country.
MELBER: Yes, I mean, so important and something you have talked about a lot.
I remember when you wrote about how medical-related bankruptcies are a huge part of that. You have been on that from the jump.
And it's sad, because, as even pre-pandemic, it's just people doing everything right, working their job, and then one bad luck medical situation.
I have one more thing for you, but did you want to respond to that?
WARREN: No, you're exactly right about that.
And think about it. This is what, basically -- this is a test of who we are as a nation. Do we just say to people, you're on your own if you get sick? Or do we say to people -- as a party, what the Democrats are trying to do, what Joe Biden is trying to do is make sure that we expand health care coverage, so nobody has to go broke just because they got a bad medical diagnosis.
MELBER: Right.
Yes, I mean, and that's really a policy point. It's a nonpartisan point about what kind of country we want to be, which is why I think it's important and I wanted to get you on that.
My last question is straight politics. As you know and viewers know, we have both campaigns on the program, so we can hear both perspectives on this big choice facing the public. You have been very clear, having been a rival of these folks, why, as you explained tonight, you support them.
But fair's fair. I did want to take a look back at the highlight machine, some of the exchanges you guys had earlier in the primary. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN: The vice president stood in the Oval Office and said, "I hope that Mitch gets reelected so I can keep working with him."
Well, Mitch did get -- did get reelected.
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator Warren, I just want to say that I was surprised to hear that you did not agree with me that on this -- when I called on Twitter to suspend Donald Trump's account, that you did not agree.
WARREN: So, look, I don't just want to push Donald Trump off Twitter. I want to push him out of the White House. That's our job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: What do you say to voters who look back at that and wonder about this new unity process, and particularly a point you made, which a lot of people I have heard say you have the better side of the argument than Joe Biden, that you can't play nice with Mitch McConnell at this point in history?
WARREN: Well, look, we had a primary. And I ran hard. But I lost, and Joe won.
And Joe picked Kamala to be his running mate. And now I'm with him. And so is Beto and Cory and Bernie and all of us, because we're going to work to get them elected.
And then, here's the thing, we're not just going to sit down and say, OK, good luck to you, go make this happen, Joe. We're going to work to get them elected, and then work to help them do the things that need to be done in this country, help them pass the kind of legislation we need in Congress, help support them as they cancel student loan debt and expand health care coverage, as they expand Social Security, as they attack the climate crisis head on.
These are the things we need to do in our nation. And we can do them. But it's going to take all of us in this together.
And I feel like this is a moment. This is a special moment in our history, not just politics. This is a moment where we decide the future of our nation, not just for ourselves, but for our children and our grandchildren.
Donald Trump and the Republicans have described their view of where the world should go. And it's a world that works better and better for rich people and giant corporations, and worse and worse for everyone else.
We have a chance to build an America that's working for everyone. And I'm all in on this fight.
MELBER: Senator Warren, I know it's a busy time. Really appreciate your perspective on all the above.
And we will be watching the debate along with you and everyone else tonight. Thank you.
WARREN: Thank you.
MELBER: Appreciate it.
We have a lot more in our program here, as we get ready for debate night, Kamala Harris, Mike Pence on center stage.
I have a very special fact-check on some of the very issues we think could come up tonight and a lot more.
Stay with us.
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MELBER: Welcome back to THE BEAT.
I am joined by former Republican Governor Scott Walker from Wisconsin, who has been working with Vice President Pence to prepare for tonight's debate.
Thanks for joining me.
FMR. GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R-WI): Good afternoon. Good to be with you.
MELBER: Good to have you.
Last time around, there were many headlines that actually credited Mike Pence for doing quite well. What is your strategy tonight?
WALKER: Well, we want him to be Mike Pence.
And Mike Pence was good, I think, four years ago because he was calm, he was collected, he showed he was a successful Midwestern governor. I don't think the strategy changes dramatically, other than I think he's going to lean in on a few key issues, talking about the recovery, talking about the contrast, not only with him and Senator Harris, but with former Vice President Biden.
So I expect him to show a little bit more emotion than four years ago, but not to be markedly different in style, still be that calming Westerner that I think earned him good credit four years ago.
MELBER: One thing that came up, as you know, at the first presidential debate was Donald Trump's inability to just simply condemn white supremacy.
You're advising Vice President Pence side. Can you do that right now?
WALKER: Absolutely.
I have done it for years as governor. Mike Pence has done it. I think he will reaffirm that, particularly if the topic in question come up, as I think the president did after the debate, made it even clearer, but, certainly, Mike Pence will do that.
MELBER: Understood. We wanted to check that.
I don't think the president made it clear. As you know, that's been a roiling debate for some time. But I did want to get your answer on that.
Turning to COVID, which is such a big issue. What is the point of the Trump administration having all this CDC guidance, if the president himself doesn't follow it?
WALKER: Well, I think it really important -- and I assume this will be discussed tonight.
If you look back to March, when the scientists, Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx, came in, not only to Vice President Pence, as the head of the task force, but to the president and others and said, we need to take action, we need to flatten the curve, or as many as 2.2 million Americans could die, they did.
And that's why we rushed to flatten the curve. We took the action necessary. And, arguably, hundreds of thousands of people were saved because of that.
And while people may not always have -- appreciate everything the president says or some of the actions he takes, in the end, the action this administration's taken on this has been strong.
You contrast that with Joe Biden early on, who spoke out, ridiculed the president for closing down travel.
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WALKER: And on H1N1, the vice president's own chief of staff said he screwed it up...
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WALKER: Go ahead.
MELBER: I understand you want to get into H1N1 history.
But the question specifically -- and I can put on the screen -- CDC says, if you have COVID, you stay six feet away, you wear a mask, you stay home, preferably in one room.
We're speaking tonight, and the president right now is violating those rules.
Isn't that sending the wrong message and, more importantly, endangering people around him?
WALKER: Well, he's not out in public. You know this is a president who loves to go to rallies, loves to be out in public. He loves to talk to the American people. And he's not doing it for that exact reason.
And, again, I think it is important to contrast that with not just what's happening at this moment, but what this administration has done, and probably equally, if not, more importantly, what either of the candidates in the tickets would do going forward.
Almost everything that we hear from Senator Harris and former Vice President Biden is really very similar, if not identical, to what this president and this administration have been doing and talking about. That's what the American people need to look at.
MELBER: Well, Governor, let's get into -- let's get to the facts of that, because, on the screen, we have something everyone just lived through.
You just said, well, the president loves to talk to people. This isn't about what the president loves. This is about his obligation as commander in chief. He went out on that ride in the SUV, against his own CDC guidelines: Do not leave your house, except to get medical care.
And you look more broadly, and you say, the president breaks these rules, it puts people at risk.
As someone involved in a team, doesn't that concern you? And what do you think the vice president, as leading the task force, should say tonight? If he, for example -- and then I will let you respond.
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MELBER: If the vice president says on the stage tonight, and voters are watching, if he says it's very important that you follow the CDC guidelines and what the task force said, he will be, by definition, contradicting the president, Governor.
WALKER: What would have put people at risk is failing to close down travel from places like China.
Joe Biden ridiculed the president for doing that. The president acted on that. He took other actions literally saved hundreds of thousands of lives, because he listened to what Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx and other scientists talked about.
And I do think it's legitimate to contrast that, not only with what -- the ridicule he got from Joe Biden on the travel restrictions, but also on H1N1. Remember, 60 million people were infected with that. And his own -- Biden's own former chief of staff said it was only because of chance that this wasn't one of the largest mass casualty events in global history.
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There's a contrast between the two.
MELBER: You get your time to hit that. And I'm sure the vice president will hit it tonight.
You're a governor. You had responsibilities. Do you support contact tracing?
WALKER: Hey, the bottom line is, I have been wearing a mask since March, long before Democrat and Republican governors alike have.
My wife's a type 1 diabetic. I take this seriously. I actually wear a Packers mask. They won't let me wear anything but this bland one here at the debate site.
But I have been serious about this since day one. I think we can walk and chew gum, we can be healthy and at the same time have a healthy economy.
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MELBER: Well, respectfully, Governor, I hear you saying that. I have no reason to disbelieve you. I see you with your mask on.
But you are advising Vice President Pence for the reelection of Donald Trump, where he rips his mask off. The CDC tells COVID patients, you must tell close contacts about exposure. And, as you know -- the headline is up on the screen -- the White House isn't doing the contact tracing.
That's not just about the modeling for the whole country. They're literally endangering people like yourself who work with them and show up at the White House. Isn't that wrong?
WALKER: Well, the bottom line is, I certainly wasn't close enough to stand up on the top of that point that he was at yesterday, nor was anybody else.
We can talk all night about particulars about him. But what he's doing with the nation, with the policy, I think, is the most important.
And when you look at the scientists -- we hear a lot about science. This president, this administration has listened to Dr. Fauci, listened to Dr. Birx, listened to other scientists who called for swift action. And they took it early on this year. And we saved lives because of that.
We're going to continue to take swift action. And we're going to do it in a way that doesn't permanently cripple our nation's economy, which would be devastating to hundreds of millions of Americans, many of whom are out of work and need to get back to work again, and they will with this president.
MELBER: As for Vice President Pence, who runs the task force, he said there would be no second wave; basically, there wasn't a second wave.
My question to you would be, do you know how many states have a mounting caseload right now?
WALKER: Well, the bottom line is a variety of cases.
In my own state, Wisconsin, we have seen an increase even after the face mandate -- face mask mandate, I should say. And that's because there's a variety of factors out there. We all need to do our part. We need to be in this together.
As I mentioned, I have been talking about this personally since March because of my own situation and that of my family. But the actions that have been taken, remember, we had...
MELBER: I understand. Just my job asking the questions, Governor.
WALKER: I understand. I do.
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MELBER: Do you know how many states are facing...
WALKER: Don't fault you for that.
MELBER: ... this kind of rising caseload, sir?
WALKER: Well, I'm not the one in the task force. I will leave that to the experts there.
What I'm saying is, I believe the vice president tonight needs to lean in. He shouldn't be on his heels. He should lean in on this and point out what this administration has done, not just what's talked about in the media, but what they have actually done, how they have listened to Dr. Fauci, how they have listened to other scientists, the actions they have taken.
Contrast that with what Joe Biden said about ridiculing the president China on restricting travel, and talk about what he did on H1N1. Thank God we have didn't have that mass fatality issue that even his own chief of staff in the past said that would have happened.
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MELBER: So, we got you on record on that.
But you said what's discussed in the media. And the point here -- and you know this is a big issue with an administration that's been caught lying so much -- is, what we're discussing in the media, everything I have mentioned to you tonight, are facts.
And these are the results of the policy. So, the fact that I will just mention 37 states have these serious arising caseloads, when Vice President Pence said in June there's no second wave, is something people need to know.
They need to assess that tonight and his ability to deal with that.
And I suppose...
WALKER: Well, and you're right.
MELBER: Go ahead, sir.
WALKER: And he didn't know back then that Governor Cuomo was going to send COVID-positive people to nursing homes.
You look at New Jersey and New York alone. Not only are they responsible for a huge percentage of the cases, but, sadly, a major portion of the fatalities.
The death rate per 100,000 is so much higher in New York and New Jersey, because they failed the people of their state, and in turn failed the people of this country.
Yes, there's a lot of variables that people didn't know about then.
MELBER: Is that part of the argument tonight, that you want Vice President Pence to say that, because some of those regions that were hit first with higher density have those deaths counts, you're going to blame that on Democratic governors?
WALKER: No, I'm -- per your point, you raised the point about states.
I think the vice president tonight's going to talk about defending the record of listening to the scientists like Dr. Fauci. He's going to talk about contrasting that with the horrible decisions that Joe Biden ridiculed on early on, and his failed record when it came to H1N1, and the fact that it was only per chance, largely a miracle, that it was much, much -- not much more worse in terms of the 60 million Americans who were infected with that disease.
And then he's got to talk about other things as well. He's going to talk about the economy. He's going to talk about health. He's going to talk about public safety. He's going to talk about issues that matter to people in my state and all across the country.
MELBER: Yes, and your state, Wisconsin, of course, is a key one. It was last time, and it's one that's been up for grabs.
Governor, the other thing I want to ask you about, having gone back and forth on COVID -- and I appreciate you having the dialogue on behalf of the campaign...
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WALKER: I don't mind. This is fun. I enjoy it.
MELBER: Great.
Well, you know, with the mask, I can't always tell whether you're...
WALKER: These are big issues. These are important issues.
Yes, if I'm smiling or not, right?
MELBER: Yes.
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WALKER: Every time I'm happy, I will just keeping putting up the Packers.
MELBER: Real quick, I will ask you this in closing.
In 2015, you said, we don't need an apprentice in the White House, that Donald Trump took four projects into bankruptcy, and you called on other Republicans to find an alternative to him.
Final question, sir. Now you're here, obviously, tonight advocating for him. Who was right, Scott Walker in 2015, who said any Republican would be better than Donald Trump, or Scott Walker today fighting for his reelection, sir?
WALKER: I was wrong five years ago. I told Chuck Todd this in the past on "Meet the Press."
I didn't think Donald Trump would govern as a conservative. I didn't think he'd be commonsense, not having that track record. I was wrong. His regulatory reform, his tax cuts in effect, they benefit almost every American.
You look at the other things that he's done have been wildly successful and, obviously, before this global pandemic, helped this country bring about the lowest unemployment rate we have seen in 50 years, the lowest ever recorded by category for African-American, Hispanic American, Asian American, people with disabilities and our veterans.
I didn't think back then that he would be as successful in following through on those promises. He has been. And, for that, I'm very thankful, not for my party, but for my country.
MELBER: Understood.
And appreciate your candor, saying you think you were wrong last time. People will make up their own minds. Everyone's going to able to watch the debate tonight.
Governor Walker from Wisconsin, appreciate you coming on THE BEAT, sir.
WALKER: Thank you. My pleasure.
MELBER: Thank you.
And we will be right back.
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MELBER: You're watching THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER on a big night.
Keep it right here on MSNBC. We got full coverage before and after the debate, 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
Joy Reid is up next.
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