Summary
What does the record early vote say about the presidential election? Former Trump executives explain why they're backing Joe Biden. Debra Messing discusses her efforts to help get out the vote. Artist and filmmaker RZA speaks out.
Transcript
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
JOSEPH BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Reflecting on Franklin Roosevelt, taught us about the need to heal our nation.
Folks, I'm running as a proud Democrat, but I will govern as an American president to unite and to heal.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: I promise you, look at my whole career. I will work as hard for those who don't support me as those who do. That's the job of a president, a duty to care for everyone.
So, in these final days, stay empowered, stay optimistic, stay united, because you too have a sacred duty, the duty to vote.
It matters. Georgia, it matters. So, please vote. Help get out the vote. Early in-person voting in Georgia goes through October 30. If you're voting by mail, return your ballot as soon as possible and make sure everyone you know does the same.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: We are listening to Vice President Joe Biden just finishing remarks in Atlanta.
He is at an Atlanta, Georgia, drive-in rally. We just watched him walk out there to the song "Hey Ya!" from the hometown favorites OutKast. And we watched him absolutely savage Donald Trump on the issues of COVID and basically brag that he's even campaigning, Joe Biden, in a red state like Georgia at all.
We're going to keep an eye here on the tail end of this rally.
I want to welcome him to THE BEAT. I am Ari Melber.
We are one week out from Election Day. And while we watch Joe Biden campaign for Biden, there's someone else campaigning for Biden that we have been tracking, the former president hammering the current one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Listen, you got a president right now, he wants full credit for an economy that he inherited. He wants zero blame for the pandemic he ignored.
But you know what? The job doesn't work that way. You have got to be responsible 24/7. You have got to pay attention 24/7. Tweeting at the TV doesn't fix things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Obama speaking there in Florida, a key state for Trump.
Trump is, of course, playing defense today. He's fighting to defend red turf. That's why it's notable that Biden was so happy to be going on offense in traditionally red Georgia.
A little bit of context for that. If Biden were to carry Georgia, it would be the first time a Democrat is able to take that state in 28 years. And it is possible, you can see right here, a statistical tie.
Now, the numbers do show Republicans doing better there in early votes than most other key states. They're building an edge there of about 100,000. Biden is trying to expand the electoral map. He's also sending Kamala Harris to Texas this week. Trump is not expanding. He's showing some signs of weakness.
There's this trip to Nebraska tonight. This is a state that divides up electoral votes, instead of going winner-take-all, Trump going into a district where Biden is up seven.
The whole trip that Donald Trump's making tonight at this key time, a week out, would salvage just a single electoral vote. It's a sign the Trump campaign is eying scenarios where they think their whole race could come down to the wire.
Meanwhile, these early vote numbers we have been reporting on, they continue to surge. Last night, we reported on broken records, voters smashing them again, this early vote now topping 66 million. And in one other piece of bad news for the Trump campaign, while nothing is final, because you have to see who turns out on Election Day, in this record-breaking early vote, one out of four of these voters are newer.
These are people who did not vote in 2016 and who demographically may align more with a Biden coalition.
Let's get right to it.
I'm joined by Cornell Belcher, a former Obama pollster, and Paola Ramos, an MSNBC contributor, and the author of the new book "Finding Latinx: In Search of the Voices Redefining Latino Identity."
Good to see you both.
CORNELL BELCHER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you.
PAOLA RAMOS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Ari.
MELBER: Cornell, we all take any candidates' lines with a grain of salt, but we were just watching the tail end of the Biden rally. And he said something that is true that we have been documenting, which is, unless they're completely wasting time, being in Georgia is a flex.
(LAUGHTER)
BELCHER: No, it is a really strong flex move. It's gangster, if you will.
Look, but it is. Him being in Georgia, him spending money in Texas, he's putting the Republicans on the defensive in a way that, look, I worked for a guy who I thought put people on the defensive, and we went into states that we hadn't went into before, in Obama in '08.
But I think that the field is being even spread even more. And it's one thing from Obama 2008. We talk about, on Election Day, we're not going to be sitting around waiting for one state to come in and decide who wins the election.
Biden has taken that, and they have multiplied it. I mean, if you look at what they're doing in North Carolina, where they're spending money in Georgia, and it's one thing -- it's one thing to sort of talk about Texas and Georgia coming in line, because lord knows me and my Democratic friends been talking about that a lot over the last couple years, but, Ari, it's been lip service.
They're putting money into Texas and Georgia. And it's been a long time since a Democrat has done that. And the more they can shrink the map for Republicans, the better off they are. This is really quite remarkable, what the Biden campaign is able to do right now.
MELBER: Yes, and they have got their ducks in a row. They have deployed Obama at the right time in what looks like the right places.
Cornell, because of your longtime work and relationship with him, I wanted to get your views on the spicy Obama, which exists. But, when you cover him and when you're around him, sometimes, it exists less on stage. Some people, they love to get out there. He always saw his role, particularly after he became president, very seriously.
But here he was getting into it, really mocking Trump. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: What's his closing argument? That people are too focused on COVID. He said this at one of his rallies. COVID, COVID, COVID, he's complaining. He's jealous of COVID's media coverage.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: If he had been focused on COVID from the beginning, cases wouldn't be reaching new record highs across the country this week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Cornell?
(LAUGHTER)
BELCHER: It's like he's free again, because he's not the president of the United States.
He can speak truth to power in a way that you sort of saw it kind of muted when he was president. But I also remember this is the guy who, after a bad debate, he brushed off his shoulders. He gave us a little Jay-Z.
I think you're seeing that swag Obama back on the campaign trails. And I'm here for it.
MELBER: Yes, very interesting.
Paola, I want to get your views, just writ large, on the indicators we're seeing, because the candidates have their ways of tracking. Ted Cruz knows something about Texas. He wouldn't have won his sort of Tea Party primary over the establishment person there back in the day if he didn't. And he wouldn't stay in office if he didn't.
And he's nervous. And he's already telegraphing this, for whatever his reasons are. Take a listen to Ted Cruz talking to Axios about why, basically, some of their last-minute attacks on Biden aren't working and why they see motivation in the Trump opposition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: So, you don't believe voters are moved by the Hunter Biden stuff?
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I don't think it moves a single voter.
I think it's turnout election. But my assessment of turnout is, the left is showing up no matter what, that those who hate Trump will crawl over broken glass to vote against him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Paola?
RAMOS: I mean, he's absolutely right, right? They tried to do Hunter Biden. They tried to make that the new e-mails. It didn't work.
Instead of an attack, people just saw a father and a son, right? They simply saw Joe Biden's empathy exposed. They saw unconditional love. And that's something that Donald Trump will never be able to have.
And so just look at his own state of Texas, right? More than seven million people have already voted. And why is that? It's the same thing we're seeing in Georgia, the same thing we're seeing in Florida. It's because the Obama coalition is working, because Stacey Abrams' coalition in Georgia that she paved the road for in 2018 is working.
Joe Biden's message is resonating there. The message is great. But let's not forget what Stacey Abrams did in 2018. In that midterm, we got more Latinas to vote, more black folks to vote, more AAPI folks to vote in the midterms than in the 2016 presidential elections. And that is why it's working.
Biden said there's a story. There's something happening in this country. The coalition is working.
MELBER: Yes, and you say that, and it's not shade against Biden to note that he wasn't the Democrats' first choice. And in his time and age in the party, he wasn't the new flavor of ice cream, to be sure.
But you're pointing out, Paola, that the party's grassroots work and the coalition.
RAMOS: Absolutely.
MELBER: And Abrams is someone that the Biden campaign cultivated and respected. And even if she wasn't the running mate, she was on the short list. They have done events together. They did a big televised town hall together, that this is a model of coalition building where the Democratic Party says, yes, you can't be all things to all people through one candidate.
But, boy, there's a new movement out there if you can find ways to credibly engage with it.
RAMOS: That's exactly right. That was always her thesis, right? That was always her theory of the case, the new American majority.
I think, in 2033, Georgia will be a majority minority, right? And so what you're seeing now, that demographic change that's happening in Georgia, where there's more than 30 percent of folks are black, more than 10 percent of that population is foreign-born. That's the future.
And I think Democrats get that.
MELBER: Cornell, I do have something wrong and stupid to read you, but it is 2020, so that's part of our jobs.
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: The White House, which is a government institution -- the taxpayers fund a lot of its activities -- talks about Donald Trump's first-term accomplishments here in this final week.
And, Cornell, they list -- quote -- "ending the COVID-19 pandemic" among the accomplishments.
If it's a self-own, does it require a fact-check?
BELCHER: At some point -- and, look, Ari, I do spin, all right? I have been spinning on your network for a while.
(LAUGHTER)
BELCHER: But, at some point...
MELBER: You spin like a dreidel some nights.
(LAUGHTER)
BELCHER: I spin like a good deejay back in the '90s.
MELBER: That's a cooler reference.
Go ahead.
BELCHER: This is remarkable stuff.
It comes to the point where you can't spin to the point where it's flat-out insulting to the people who are listening.
MELBER: Sure.
BELCHER: We have over 200,000 people dead here, and spiking all over the country, and they're saying that they -- they're declaring victory, when, all around the country, towns and cities are wondering if they're going to have to lay off people and shut down again.
This is the sort of disconnect that has been problematic for the Trump campaign, and a reason why their coalition is shrinking, not expanding, because no -- none of those suburban voters, none of that suburban mom who has got to sit home with the children, and who is worried about the job and worried about their grandparents and their parents, none of them see the president and the White House talking about how they have ended the pandemic and think, my God, this is someone who I reasonably can vote for.
MELBER: Yes.
BELCHER: This encapsulates the problem.
MELBER: Yes.
And it's where Joe Biden's closing argument message on COVID reflects the debate, where 60 million people watched it. And those kind of lie -- that's what they are, lies -- from a government office, I don't think, are going to reverse what people are living through.
I got to fit in a break, because we have something special coming up.
So, I want to thank her Cornell and Paola so much for kicking us off one week out on a special edition of THE BEAT.
We have our shortest break, 30 seconds, but coming up on the program, more of what Obama said and why it was carried on FOX News.
A new desperate call from Trump that might be illegal.
But, in 30 seconds, our exclusive panel, former top Trump executives together for the first time, why they're backing Biden and what comes next -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We turn now to an exclusive panel, three top executives who worked closely with Donald Trump in business speaking out tonight, as each is backing Joe Biden.
Michael Cohen famously worked as a Trump lawyer and executive. He cooperated with federal prosecutors, clashed with the DOJ over politically targeting him after his release from prison. He now hosts the podcast "Mea Culpa" and is the author of "Disloyal." Barbara Res, also a former Trump Org executive helping run construction of Trump Tower. You see her there with the Donald. She's the author of "Tower of Lies" and a friend of THE BEAT.
And joining this unique panel, exclusively, is an executive at the center of one of Trump's famously troubled properties. Jack O'Donnell was president of Trump's Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City. And he is the author of "Trumped! The Inside Story of the Real Donald Trump.
Good evening to each of you.
Thanks for being here.
JACK O'DONNELL, FORMER PRESIDENT AND COO, TRUMP PLAZA HOTEL: Thank you.
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY/FIXER FOR DONALD TRUMP: Good morning -- evening, Ari.
MELBER: Good evening.
I have heard from some of you in different forums. This is important one week out, given that there are still voters, and we hear from them, who have a belief about Donald Trump in business. He continues to poll better than Joe Biden and only one topic out of the major issues, and that's the economy.
And so, Michael Cohen, we turn back to you. We give you the ball. You have you have gone through your public process and growth. You have shared this with our viewers. And I hear from a lot of them that want to hear from you.
When you see some voters today who say, well, I still might trust Trump more than by Biden on the economy, he knows business, based on your experience on that, and as you look at Biden as an alternative, what do you say to them?
COHEN: Yes, I would say that you're making a terrible mistake, that Donald Trump clearly does not understand business, that we have now seen over the course of the last few weeks, if it wasn't that Donald inherited a tremendous amount of money, he wouldn't be the Donald Trump that we know.
On top of that, all the business deals that have come out have all turned out to be losers, whether it's Trump University, whether it's Trump Atlantic City, whether it's many of the different real estate projects.
There's a lot of fraud that goes on into the inflation of his assets, which is why so many people believe that he's actually the success he claims to be.
MELBER: And, Barbara, I invite you to build on this. We have got some time here for each of you guys to weigh in, because the wider issues are that Donald Trump both is famously secretive about his own finances, but blustering about them.
And we just saw this walkout on Lesley Stahl on "60 Minutes." A lot of people don't think it's playing well.
But you all lived through this. This is vintage Trump. There's almost a feeling that he's pulling the same tactics in this election. And some of them aren't working as well.
For your context, I want to show him all the way back in 1990 pulling this. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Those in the financial community are talking about it -- and we talked about this on the phone -- who have said -- and this is them saying it, not me.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is them? What do you mean by them? This is one or two people. And what about the positive people?
QUESTION: Five or six.
But the ones who said negative things, and...
TRUMP: Here we are.
QUESTION: Well, we have got to...
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Back to the negative.
QUESTION: Back to the negative.
TRUMP: Back to the negative.
Back to the -- you know what? Do your -- do this interview with somebody else. You don't need this. Do it with somebody else.
Good luck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Barbara, your thoughts taking it in, as did basically the same thing airing on "60 Minutes" this weekend?
BARBARA RES, FORMER TRUMP ORGANIZATION EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that, typically, he just won't abide with anybody going against him or criticizing him.
And why should he? He chooses to get up and walk away. And he does. And he impresses people with that, some people.
MELBER: And do you think there's a diminishment of return on this over time? Do some people even who initially liked him catch on to the tricks?
RES: You know, I'm afraid we're in a situation where people that like him just like him, and no matter what he does really doesn't matter.
Nobody's catching on to anything anymore. And that's one of the reasons why I wrote my book, because I want the things I know, especially about the racism and the sexism -- they haven't been broadcast before. Nobody knows about this. Nobody was there in 1980, '81, '82, '83, with me and Trump.
And I think that we have got -- the only way that you're going to get people away from him is to maybe get them to know him a little bit better. I know it's very late. But that's my hope.
MELBER: Jack, given your experience right inside one of these casinos, we're seeing reports of the incumbent president, who says he's very rich and who raised a lot of money with the advantages of incumbency, running out of cash, being outspent by $100 million vs. Biden right now.
Do you see any echoes here? Is this someone who is just incapable of running organizations that can manage money?
O'DONNELL: Well, absolutely.
I mean, my experience with him, Ari, was disastrous, and particularly because the business was remarkably successful. We -- the business I ran generated in excess of $130 million in free cash flow annually. And he still managed to mess that up in New York by overleveraging that property, as well as every other property in Atlantic City.
When I left that organization, I think he had something like $3.5 billion worth of debt. And he did not have the income to service that debt. So, he's -- I mean, quite frankly, I think there's an absolute parallel to the way he's piling up the debt in this country, the same way that he ran his business.
It's not sustainable.
MELBER: When you first went to work for him, Jack, did you like him?
O'DONNELL: It's interesting, Ari, because the first conversation that I had with the man was the first day I started working for him.
And I had worked for a guy who was known as really a genius in the industry. Regardless of his problems, Steve Wynn had quite a reputation as a marketing guy and brilliant in the operation.
So, the first day that I met Donald Trump, he sits down in my office, and I'm expecting to engage in a serious business conversation with this man about what I plan to do with his business.
Instead, he was more -- more interested in me giving him the dirt, the gossip on Steve Wynn. What kind of a person was he? What kind of person was he? Did he mess around with women? That's what he was interested in.
And I had a 45-minute conversation with the man that left me going, what have I done? And that was in the first hour that I was there.
MELBER: Michael?
COHEN: Yes?
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: What do you think about that? How does that compare?
COHEN: It's a similar story.
Look, Donald Trump, he doesn't change his spots. He doesn't change it for Jack. He didn't change it for me. And I can guarantee you he didn't change it for Barbara either. He's charming. He knows the right things to say. He thinks, at that point in time, that was something that Jack would want to be talking about.
But, clearly, it wasn't. Sometimes, you actually do want to talk about business. But he's so sidetracked with whatever's going on inside of his head, and nothing else really matters. It's really just all about what exists inside of Donald Trump's head. That's all he cares about.
MELBER: And, Barbara, I want to play a little bit of him here again, as we look at what's working or not.
He's out on the trail. And some of the stuff about Biden's family, from where we can measure, doesn't seem to be working. Ted Cruz, if you want to look to him, we showed tonight, says it won't change a single vote.
Then he goes on and sort of seems to be shading parts of the country if they're not going to vote for him. This is obviously an unusual tactic for trying to rally support. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I wasn't coming to Erie. I mean, I have to be honest, there is no way I was coming. I didn't have to.
Can you imagine if I lose, and I have done all these things?
I may never have to come back here again if I don't get Iowa. I will never be back.
Dammit, Minnesota, you better vote for me.
How the hell do you lose to a guy like this? Is this possible? Oh, I will never come to Pennsylvania again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: Barbara, do you see this as a ploy? Or is he blurting his feelings on this last march, this last week?
RES: Right now -- and maybe this will change -- everything is a ploy with Donald.
But what I think he's doing is, he's blowing up this common man thing, hey, I'm talking to you like that, like your brother, like your friend. You know, this is -- I ain't coming back here if you don't vote for him.
And they love. They love that. They suck it up. He's one of them.
But he's not. And I tell stories about how much he is not for the common man.
MELBER: Jack, did you see any of that in the casino? And, again, Trump is not the only person in that line of work. But a casino is a place where you keep taking money from your customer without giving them much else of value. I guess, if you really love gambling, it's the experience.
But it's not a traditional business where you're selling them shoes. Did you see any of this same sort of odd relationship with his would-be fans?
O'DONNELL: Well, yes, I mean, because he never got the piece that it really wasn't a tangible thing, that they could -- they were -- we were giving them something.
We were taking their money, and it was an experience. And part of that experience was making the customer feel good about themselves. And I saw time and time again, when customers would win, which is a good thing in a casino, believe it or not, and particularly larger customers, where he would then meet and greet, so to speak.
And he'd be like -- show this almost anger that they won that night, instead of being gracious about it and saying, hey, that's part of the business. He always wanted to take it.
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: How did that play with them?
O'DONNELL: Well, I did more management, more stroking of those high-end players, just after they had an exchange with Donald.
But he didn't appreciate what really made the business successful. And that was the little guy. And those people actually worshipped him. They would -- he would walk through the casino and they would want to touch him, because they really believed that, if they touched him, it would bring them good luck.
And he -- it repulsed him. I mean, I told the story in my book that, listen, we all know he's a germaphobe, and that's OK. But he would come into my office and go straight to that bathroom and just be like, uh. He was so grossed out by just people.
MELBER: Like, he wanted to wipe his fans off him?
O'DONNELL: Oh, listen, he could not relate to them.
And, quite frankly, it was difficult to bring him into a room of customers, absolutely.
MELBER: It's fascinating.
I have other couple of things I want to ask you about the casinos part of it, and then this contrast with Biden, giving all the import. So, as they say in Las Vegas, Jack, always bet on orange.
(LAUGHTER)
O'DONNELL: Yes, you should.
MELBER: Orange. You know the saying. It's a saying. I didn't make it up.
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: But I'm going to ask Jack, Barbara and Michael to stay with us.
We're going to fit a quick break.
This exclusive panel, it's nowhere else tonight, one week out -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We're back with tonight's special panel, Michael Cohen, Barbara Res, Jack O'Donnell, each individuals who worked closely with Donald Trump at senior levels of the Trump Organization that bring special insights. Here we are a week out.
And I want to just begin this segment here with the contrast specifically to Joe Biden. Each of you have links to Trump. In some ways, your lives might be easier to just not be out and around this week.
Starting with Jack, down the line, why specifically do you think Joe Biden is better than Trump for America now?
O'DONNELL: Well, it comes down to one simple thing for me, Ari, and that's race.
The only way we're going to heal this country is with a man that understands and appreciates the diversity of this nation. I think Biden does. And I know for a fact Donald Trump doesn't. He will never appreciate the diversity that has made this country great.
MELBER: Yes.
And that's obviously, as so many Americans know, and living through this year and this era, so important.
Barbara, similar question to you. And in the context of your brand-new book, which, as BEAT fans, we're excited about, "Tower of Lies," what you know of him that you document the book and the contrast to Biden?
RES: It's hard to say this, because all politicians are basically dishonest, and they have to be. They have to pander to whoever they're talking to. And I understand that.
But comparison, Biden is honest. Biden doesn't cheat. Biden understands people. Biden cares about people.
Trump cares about one thing, and one thing only. And it's in his money and his ego, that tremendous ego. Biden doesn't have that.
As far as looking at what Trump did to our country and continues to do to our country today by filling up our Supreme Court with people that are going to violate the Constitution, he's a terror. He's a nightmare.
So, I mean, Biden is good. Biden has the experience. Biden knows government, all those things.
But I can't think of almost anyone that wouldn't be better than Trump.
MELBER: Michael?
(LAUGHTER)
COHEN: Yes, look, I have to just add to what Jack and Barbara just said.
Donald Trump cares for no one or anything other than herself. I have often said -- and I said it in front of the House Oversight -- he's a con man. He's a fraud. He's a racist. I have also stated he's a homophobe, Islamophobe, anti-Semite, sexist, misogynist.
I mean, the notion that there's even a competition at this moment in our time, foreign policy, everything, all across the board, the metrics favor Joe Biden over Donald Trump. And I really do believe -- and I told you I put my money where my mouth is -- I believe that this is going to be a landslide victory for Joe Biden.
I really do.
MELBER: Well, I see Barbara crossing her fingers.
And that, again, is from people who...
COHEN: I don't want to hold back now for a second, Ari. I don't want to hold back at all. Is there anything else you want me to add to that picture?
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: Well, it's quite a list.
COHEN: Seriously...
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: This is my follow-up to you, Michael.
I think that, Michael, and then, Barbara, you are some of the individuals who know Donald Trump best, and you say he is the worst.
Michael, why is that?
(LAUGHTER)
RES: Well, he is.
MELBER: First, Michael, then Barbara.
COHEN: Well, he's just a gigantic baby who's gotten everything that he's wanted his entire life, the way that he wanted it. He's never had to take responsibility for any of his actions.
Everybody else figured out, from Fred, his father, all the way down to myself, everybody took responsibility, whether it's his dirty deeds, or his malfeasance, or his errors. It's always -- look at the finger-pointing that's going on right now in Washington, right, COVID, whether it's -- or the nonsense that's coming out of Jared Kushner's mouth now about how black people don't want to be successful.
The stupidity just rolls downhill, as Donald Trump will now -- whether it's Mark Meadows or Jared, he will point the finger and somebody -- if it wasn't at the seven days before he loses, somebody would have been fired today.
MELBER: Barbara?
RES: You know, I have watched him evolve. And I know the -- I understand -- I read Michael's book and Jack's. And I understand the relationship that each of them had.
Mine was very, very different. I was there in the beginning. And the ego was somewhat under control. But the big difference was that he listened to people. He had very good people, as opposed to now, where he doesn't have such good people. And there's a reason for that.
But he listened to people and he took their advice. And that's part of why he was successful. I think it's the whole part, actually. The only thing that he really did well was P.R. He could P.R. better than anyone else in the world.
But now I see -- with the changes -- and I watched this happen and sort of predicted it. I can see that Michael had a much different relationship with Donald. In ways, they were closer, but, in ways, Donald beat the hell out of him, and didn't with me.
And it's a changing thing. He's bad, and he's worse, and he's worse yet. But it was always there.
MELBER: Jack?
O'DONNELL: Well, Ari, he's the worst, and you haven't seen anything yet.
And I saw...
MELBER: I feel -- Jack, because I work at the news, I feel like I have seen something.
(LAUGHTER)
O'DONNELL: Yes, you have seen something, Ari.
But I promise you, I promise you, four more years of him unleashed, where he really doesn't have to pander to anybody, including the Republicans. I don't think people can really understand the chaos, the anarchy that this guy can cause.
And I think that's what he's waiting for. I -- it's who he is at his core. He loves anarchy. And, quite frankly, he doesn't like Republicans. And I think, if he wins, you're going to see that very clearly very fast.
MELBER: Yes, that's striking. And Michael has spoken bluntly about that.
I'm running out of time.
COHEN: Yes.
MELBER: I will do a final lightning round.
If you wake up when the election results are in, whether it's that night, the next day, or days later -- sometimes, it takes longer to count -- but when they come in, and you find out that Donald Trump has lost, your feeling in a word or a sentence, quickly?
Jack?
O'DONNELL: Relief, Ari. I will be relief -- relieved for our country. Very simple.
MELBER: Barbara?
RES: I will start to believe again.
MELBER: Michael?
COHEN: Yes, I will be relieved as well.
I think it's about time that the country needs to heal, and that we can't do it with him as the captain of chaos.
MELBER: All striking and really thoughtful ideas, analysis, and first-person experience, which voters then can see and listen to tonight and make up their own minds.
But, clearly, all of you have put something on the line for this, so we appreciate your time, Michael Cohen, Barbara Res, Jack O'Donnell, exclusive panel only here on THE BEAT.
Appreciate you.
Going to fit in a break.
Up ahead: The record early vote numbers continue to rise. There are lengths many are taking to cast a ballot. We have a special conversation with a BEAT debut, Debra Messing.
But, first, rallying for Biden, Obama going after Trump as petty and incompetent. We have new parts of that barn-buster Florida speech straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: There's only one ex-president on the campaign trail right now in this final week. It's Barack Obama, not only stumping for Biden, but clearly enjoying it, back on the trail, hammering Trump.
He is drawing all kinds of attention, including FOX News airing this tough speech today, which reportedly angered Trump. We will show you why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We can't afford four more years of this. That's why we got to send Joe Biden to the White House.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Because we cannot afford this kind of incompetence and disinterest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Incompetence, Barack Obama laying it out, and plenty of viewers seeing it.
There are brand-new numbers on early voting. What they reveal about turnout is also cheering the Biden campaign.
We also are going to go somewhere special, from acting to activism and going public on Trump -- Debra Messing makes her BEAT debut next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We're seeing these record-breaking early vote numbers, over 66 million ballots now cast. That smashes records. You can see more than basically triple '16, lines from coast to coast.
We're hearing also some amazing stories from people who will do whatever it takes to have their voice heard, a medical student in Baltimore flying home to Florida and back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAELA BYNOE, MEDICAL STUDENT: Woke up at 5:00, went -- got to the airport, took a flight, immediately Ubered to the nearest polling place. I believe it was in Hollywood, Florida, voted, and then went straight back to the airport.
I wouldn't have been able to forgive myself if I hadn't voted this election. I feel that this election is an election for our nation's soul.
I just feel the country is in turmoil, and you really can't afford to be complacent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Everyone talking about turnout, it seems, including our next guest, actress and activist Debra Messing.
You may know her, of course, from films, many of them, but then there's the iconic role as Grace in "Will & Grace."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC MCCORMACK, ACTOR: Can you believe this is the world we live in? DEBRA MESSING, ACTRESS: No, it's criminal.
MCCORMACK: How is it possible that Donald Trump is a nominee for president of the United States?
MESSING: Oh, not what I was reading.
(LAUGHTER)
MESSING: Did you know that the guy from "Fifty Shades of Grey" had an ass double?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Debra Messing also is the host of the podcast "The Dissenters," where she's interviewed all kinds of folks, from Jane Fonda to a recent interview with none other than the last Democratic nominee who won more votes, Hillary Clinton herself.
Thanks for joining us.
MESSING: Thank you so much for having me.
MELBER: As you well know, people remember art and their favorite shows and tunes and movies sometimes more than the day-to-day in the news.
You're obviously in more than one world.
Let's just start with why you're more involved like this right now and why you're telling your own fans and supporters and people interested in your work to make sure they get out and vote.
MESSING: Well, I feel like the division in our country and the strife and the struggles and the pain and (AUDIO GAP) sort of put everything else aside and focus on uniting and doing what we can to get back on track.
And I feel like there's nothing more urgent than getting people to show up and vote and use the power of their voice, so that -- so that we can decide the future of our country.
MELBER: Does this time feel different to you?
MESSING: Oh, my gosh, it's -- absolutely.
It's unprecedented and very scary, as we approach authoritarianism. It really is shocking that we're talking about fascism. That was what we talked about with Hillary Clinton, actually, and the importance of dissent in a democracy and maintaining a democracy.
Yes. So I'm hoping that this is the wakeup call for us, and that we will all show up and fight for our democracy.
MELBER: Yes.
Well, and you have been very outspoken. And that's led to, as you know, Debra, some beef. Would you agree?
(LAUGHTER)
MESSING: Yes. Yes. Yes.
MELBER: Right?
So, I'm not going to -- I'm not even going to play it, but what you know and some of our viewers may know, and I will tell the rest of them, but FOX News tries to go after you and turn you into some sort of Hollywood boogeyman.
Judge Jeanine, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino, I got a list of what they say about you, and none other than Donald Trump himself.
How do you take that? And what do you say to other people who may agree with you in whatever field, arts or the other -- or otherwise, and say, gosh, look at how they're going at her, I don't even want to get involved?
MESSING: I, obviously, was very sort of taken aback when I started being the focus of those kinds of attacks.
But, very quickly, I just put it into perspective. No one is going to silence my voice. And I have a right, as much as any other American citizen, to express my views. And if they don't agree, or they don't like it, that's fine. I'm not interested in changing their minds.
And I just would say to anybody, just if you see something that feels wrong, that you feel like should be made better, then do something. Use your voice. Use your actions. Take steps.
MELBER: I love that.
They say it on the New York subways, but it applies to democracy itself: If you see something, say something...
MESSING: Exactly.
MELBER: ... and, of course, the third thing that you're supporting, do something.
We have got so much news right now, I just appreciate you making the time.
Debra Messing, thanks for coming on THE BEAT.
MESSING: Thank you so much. Have a good night.
MELBER: You, too. I appreciate it.
And, again, that podcast is "The Dissenters." Everyone can go check that out wherever you get your podcasts.
Now, up ahead, something very special, calling out Trump era racism, something we want you to see -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We're a week out from this unusual Election Day, after a year that's faced a crippling pandemic and the mounting calls for real systemic racial justice reform.
President Obama, for those reasons, among others, says, this is the most important election of your lifetime. He's including, of course, his own.
Now, artist, musician rapper and Wu-Tang Clan founder RZA has been outspoken about so many of these issues, especially racism and injustice. I just sat down with him. This is brand-new airing for the first time.
We discussed his views of Donald Trump's failed leadership.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: So, how would you apply the Shaolin prism to dealing with a challenge like Donald Trump, fighting against many of the principles of what you're calling a civilized society?
RZA, ARTIST AND FILMMAKER: I mean, whether it's directly to an individual like the president, or to an individual like a senator, it's like, for me, I think that we should really be clear that we have created a system for us, for the people.
That's what it was created for. The problem, I think, that we have is just we give the wrong peoples the job.
I cannot get a guy who can't paint and expect he's going to paint my house right. You can't do that. And I think that's been our biggest flaw in our country.
Shaolin would say this. Freedom operates under a law of justice. You're free to come over here and smack me in the face, Ari, but justice has to come, right?
(LAUGHTER)
RZA: So, therefore, we deal with equality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: RZA is talking justice, in his view, meaning taking on Donald Trump.
As for the wider context here, we have reported recently on this very program about how many black activists and artists have been calling out racial injustices, police brutality, from Billie Holiday in the 1930s to Sam Cooke in the civil rights era, to Wu-Tang Clan back in the 1990s.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 1994)
RZA: Whether you're successful or unsuccessful, you know what I'm saying, if you kind of got this tone of skin, you know what I'm saying, they're going to kind of really bring it on you.
So, it's the same thing everybody else be going through. It just it happened to us, and made us realize that all that gold record and all that whatever, whatever, it don't really save you from the brutality or from the subjects you got to go through out here.
(CROSSTALK)
RZA: You know what I'm saying?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: RZA saying then something we have heard so much this year. We live in a country where even success and money does not transcend racial discrimination.
So, I asked him, in this brand-new interview, why he felt it was important to speak out, and what he thinks about those same arguments today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RZA: It was just the truth. And Wu-Tang always wasn't never shy to speak the truth in our lyrics, our songs.
I think, in that mind-set as a young man, I knew that I just accepted that that's part of American life for a black man, rich or poor. As a man now, I would say that it's not accepted.
Man, I'm like, yo, wait a minute. I'm paying to be beat up? I'm paying to be profiled?
MELBER: Did you feel believed then?
RZA: You know what is so crazy? I never -- it never crossed my mind.
That's one thing about -- I will say this statement. I think truth needs no evidence. We strive to put the emotion in front of you musically. Now, that's really the biggest goal, I think, as an artist.
Art captures time and space, and it puts it in front of the present, but it also leaves it for the future. And, in some cases, it's a reflection and a memory of the past.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: This is deep. What can I say?
I want to show you a couple other highlights, because he touched on how he's grown since being a young artist and a young black man, how his music and his friendships and his network helped him get through a very dark period. We also talked about the ethos of kung fu.
Here are those highlights.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RZA: When you're young, you assume that the adults in the room know everything.
That wasn't the expression of the artist I was evolving to.
And I sat in that cell, and they are making toilet wine, you know?
MELBER: What's toilet wine?
RZA: They take yeast and old fruit, and you got to store it in the toilet, so the C.O.s don't see it.
MELBER: In the toilet of the prison?
RZA: Yes.
It took me to be all the way down in the -- into the ashes in order to rise back up like a phoenix.
You think of someone like Dr. Martin Luther King or even Malcolm X. They wasn't scared of the system. But the system was scared of them. And that was the problem.
The Wu-Tang clan had to rise and change the dynamic of our lives and our community.
MELBER: Hip-hop or kung fu?
RZA: Hip-hop is kung fu.
(LAUGHTER)
RZA: You know, whether I get paid or not to make music, I still make music because I love it.
I'm Wu-Tang.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Wu-Tang. As they say, Wu-Tang is for the children, but the children grow up, and it's still here for us.
No matter what kind of music or films you like, one of the things that RZA said there that's so important, as we talk about power this year, is that people like MLK and Malcolm X, they weren't afraid of the system. The system was afraid of them.
That was a concept he explored in a song, but it's a concept we're living through right now.
As we have covered on this program, the reason there's so much voter suppression is, there's a system that's afraid of your vote and your power.
So, yes, if there's a theme through our whole program tonight or this whole week, go out and use your power.
Our thanks to RZA for sitting down with us.
That was just an excerpt. The entire interview is out now, brand-new. Go to MSNBC.com/mavericks, MSNBC.com/mavericks. You will see the entire conversation with RZA, as well as other artists we have done. It's over 20 minutes. I hope you will check it out.
That does it for THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER tonight. As always, thanks for watching.
"THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID" starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.END
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