Summary:
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis faces a scandal over vaccine
favoritism towards the rich. Security at the Capitol Building is tightened
once again. Republicans ramp up voter suppression efforts. The House passes
the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act.
Transcripts:
JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC HOST: THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER, the Meth to my Redman,
starts right now.
Hi, Ari.
(LAUGHTER)
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Well, Jason, I didn`t know you were going to say
that, but how high?
JOHNSON: So high, I can reach the sky.
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: There it is. Let`s all reach the sky together and be happy
together. I mean that in the sense of flying, moving on forward to good
things.
JOHNSON: Completely. Completely.
MELBER: Jason, nice to see you in the chair.
One hundred.
JOHNSON: Thanks, Ari .
MELBER: I want to welcome everyone -- thank you, sir -- welcome everyone to
THE BEAT. I`m Ari Melber.
And it`s always good to see our colleagues in different chairs around the
building.
We are also tracking a lot of stories for you tonight. Senate progress and
the big COVID bill. That`s happening now. A new Republican scandal on
vaccine line-jumping. The one and only James Carville joining us next on
the program. I`m looking forward to that. I hope you too.
We`re also going to go out to Texas to hear from local leaders speaking out
tonight over a battle that stretched from Dallas all the way to the Biden
White House.
But we begin with the more somber scene in Washington, where Congress
remains on high alert over these intelligence threats. Capitol Police are
now formally asking the National Guard to stay there for two more months in
response to new threats of MAGA-style attacks.
As the Democratic majority says they take this extremely seriously, they`re
emphasizing they`re also continuing the work of government, fast-tracking
the COVID relief bill on party lines when needed, which includes Vice
President Harris casting another tiebreaking note. Republicans are
deploying a fairly minor delay tactic to add about a day to the debate.
So, we want to get into all of this, plus those other stories.
We begin with Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for "The Washington Post,"
Gene Robinson, Daniella Gibbs Leger from the Center for American Progress,
co-host of "The Tent" podcast, and Mara Gay from "The New York Times"
editorial board.
Good to see everyone.
Gene, I begin with the scene in the city you know well, but under different
terms, taking these security threats very seriously, while still marching
forward on the big COVID package. Your thoughts.
EUGENE ROBINSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, just from a
practical sense, it is very difficult to go anywhere around the Capitol
Hill area right now because of all the fencing topped with all the
concertina wire.
It really is a feeling that I have never seen in Washington in all my years
here. It`s different. And so the obvious question is, how long does this
last? Nobody wants this to be permanent. I mean, this can`t be permanent,
because there are necessary streets that are literally blocked off. You
just -- there are times when you just can`t get there from here. And that`s
just not tenable.
But nobody wants the Capitol looking like this. Yet what is the date
certain when the MAGA fringe and the QAnon lunatics no longer are crazy? I
mean, when do you reach the point when you have confidence that they`re not
going to do something idiotic?
I don`t know when that is, but we`re going have to figure that out, because
this is not a sustainable situation in the long term.
MELBER: Daniella, also is a Washington denizen, has that been your
experience? What are your thoughts?
DANIELLA GIBBS LEGER, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Yes, you know, our
office sent a note to our staff telling them not to come to the office
today if they were planning to, to stay away from the Hill, to make sure
they listen to the local law enforcement.
And it`s not the first time we have had to send that message. And it really
is disheartening that we live in this moment. But, like Gene says, this
can`t be our everyday existence for -- in perpetuity. So, at some point,
we`re going have to figure out how to deal with this threat. It`s no longer
a surprise. So we have to figure out how we can open back up the Capitol,
how we can do the people`s business, but make sure that lawmakers and staff
members are safe.
We`re going have to figure out what this balance is. But keeping the
Capitol and blocks around it locked down is not an option.
MELBER: Yes, I appreciate both you saying that. And that`s straight talk.
We`re talking about the looming threat of politicized violence, and how do
you disentangle from that?
This also may be -- and I mean no disrespect, Gene, because we know the
high respect that we and the viewers hold you in.
ROBINSON: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: But this also may be one of the only times I have heard you and
Josh Hawley sound the same. The difference is, I know that you mean it
earnestly.
And what I`m about to show viewers goes to why I`m not sure that he does,
which is a big difference.
So, look, our panel is going to stay. Let me explain this. We`re going get
to Mara.
But here is the deal. Everybody knows some Republicans encouraged parts of
the Stop the Steal rally. Republican Senator Hawley held up his fist in
solidarity with the crowd that would breach his own workplace. He was the
first senator to answer Trump`s call to try to overthrow Biden`s win.
But politicians like Hawley, they could respond to all this by just
responding the violence and supporting measures to prevent this from
happening again. Some Republican leaders have done that. Others are not
doing that. Instead, as I`m just discussing with our panel, they are
questioning or critiquing the various security measures taken in direct
response to that deadly attack in January.
It`s an approach Tucker Carlson has been pushing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: Those 26,000 federal troops are not there for
your safety. The Democratic Party is using those troops to send the rest of
us a message about power.
We`re clearly living under some form of martial law at the moment. How do
we know that? Well, here`s one indication. There are nearly 10,000 federal
troops in our capital city tonight. Ooh, that`s a hint.
Why are they there? So, say something a Democratic governor doesn`t like
and he will send troops. Does that sound like the country you grew up in?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Why are they there? Because the Capitol was breached for the first
time since 1812. Because people were killed. Because intelligence shows
ongoing threats. That`s why.
But now Senator Hawley is sounding a lot like that FOX host, making the
same argument on FOX.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I think the idea of keeping them there
indefinitely and keeping a barbed-wire fence around the Capitol
indefinitely is crazy. I mean, this is the people`s house. It should be
open to the people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: As an emergency measure, the barbed wire is not to keep out the
people. Fact-check. It`s to keep out the rioters indicted for a conspiracy
to overthrow the government by force.
With those facts in mind, our panel is with us.
I`m going to go Gene and then Mara, since your name was invoked, as they
say in Washington, Gene. You two sound similar. You two sound similar, but,
as I mentioned, only slightly risibly, there are some important
differences.
Your thought on this weird, disingenuous talking point?
ROBINSON: Well, it is hard to believe that anything that Josh Hawley says
is sincere and it`s not designed to further his political ambitions. So,
enough about that.
What he just said, that sound bite that we played, could have been word for
word from Mayor Muriel Bowser of the District of Columbia, because, again,
nobody wants this to continue, to stay a permanent fixture in the Capitol.
But it has to be there now because of these ongoing threats.
And rational people realize those two things, that the security measures
have to be there right now, but they can`t be there forever. We`re going to
have to find other ways of making sure that the Capitol Complex is safe.
Already some of the fencing in the vicinity of the White House is coming
down. There was a lot over there too. You know, we will figure it out. And
I hope we figure it out on -- with a bias toward as much openness as
possible, because it is the people`s house, and that`s very important.
That`s very important to us who live here. That`s very important to the
country.
MELBER: Mara?
MARA GAY, EDITORIAL BOARD MEMBER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes, I can`t help
but think about New York City after September 11 and the attacks, because
in the months and even years afterward -- I live here in New York. I was in
high school at the time.
There was an initial very, very serious military presence and then
paramilitary presence essentially, with the New York Police Department. We
have had counterterrorism squads. It was very intense. And it was also
really disheartening, because this is a city that`s very vibrant, and we
really didn`t want to accept changing our lives in that way.
It made us feel like the terrorists were winning in some sense. So what
happened over time is, as we understood better how to confront these
threat, not just with sheer force, right, but with diplomacy and things
that worked well and things that didn`t work well, we kind of understood
more about the nature of the threat, and we could open ourselves back up
again in a smart, intelligent way, while still keeping security where we
needed it.
It hasn`t been perfect, but surely we have not seen anything like September
11, thank God, since that day. And so I just think that`s -- it`s not a
perfect model, but it is a way forward. And I do think it`s important that
we really make sure that the Capitol is open, that Congress is doing the
people`s business.
But I also want to say that there is something particularly despicable
about what Hawley and others are saying, because it`s not just that they`re
lying to the American people and they`re telling us something wasn`t
important or significant that we saw with our own eyes, but they`re really
completely denigrating the memory of people who died that day, and also
telling us that there is no threat, when we know for sure, for certain that
there were members of Congress and others, staff, journalists, police
officers, who were in fear of their lives that day for simply doing the
people`s work.
So, I really don`t think that`s forgivable, and there`s certainly -- it`s
amazing to see them saying that there is no threat, while, at the same
time, stoking the fire of those like members of QAnon who are essentially
just traitors at this point.
Anybody who stormed that Capitol is a traitor. So, that`s what -- that`s
who they`re siding with, instead of people who are duly elected by the
American people. So, I think the entire narrative around this is just the
apex of the lies that Donald Trump has been telling for years.
And it`s really taken a dangerous turn. So, I hope that we see more
responsible actors stand up, but, for now, I think it`s unfortunate, but
the Capitol needs to be secure.
MELBER: Yes.
And with regard to the role of the co-equal branch of government to
participate responsibly and policy to keep it secure, it`s for the courts
to figure out what incitement is or isn`t, but if you`re tight with the
arsonists and you make common cause with the arsonists and you hoist your
fist up to the arsonists, and then you go running around, use your power to
say, what`s up with all the firefighters, we don`t need firefighters around
here, you sound like someone that wants the fire to keep burning.
That`s the problem. And, as a lawyer, I can say, OK, that doesn`t mean that
you are technically indictable. That`s a very different standard, and we
don`t -- we`re not holding a trial here tonight, but, boy, do you look bad
and guilty when you say, get these firefighters out of here. It`s really
concerning, which is why we wanted to put a light on it.
I want to thank Mara, Gene for the thoughtful comments. Daniella...
(CROSSTALK)
ROBINSON: One thing.
MELBER: Yes, sir, go ahead.
ROBINSON: Could I put out just one thing?
Josh Hawley could advance his cause. If he wants the security to come down,
he could come out tomorrow and say, Joe Biden won a fair and free election,
and the big lie was a big lie, and I was a big participant in it. And I
shouldn`t have done that. And you people should go home, because this is
all a lie.
Then maybe I would take somewhat seriously something he said.
MELBER: Yes. No, I appreciate you saying that, because that goes to
something we used to talk about, as Mara was saying, in the post-9/11
context, which is radicalization and being clear with your platform and
your responsibility, so you don`t give people the wrong information or lies
or hate that can stoke other problems.
I want to thank, as I was mentioning, Gene and Mara for helping kick us
off.
I`m asking Daniella to stay right now, because, Daniella, I want to get to
one more related development that I felt we had to get to tonight, the
instantly infamous image related to this conversation of MAGA rioter
Richard Barnett, who came armed with a stun gun into the Capitol, breached
the speaker`s office, with his feet up on her desk.
He has been in jail shins was indicted for what you see here, awaiting
trial, which is how the United States court system treats people deemed
legally dangerous or a flight risk, or both.
Well, defendant Barnett was back in court today, and he doesn`t like this
process. Indeed, he erupted into anger after a judge assigned his next
court appearance to be in May, meaning he will in all likelihood remain
incarcerated until then, yelling at the judge it`s -- quote -- "not fair"
that he is in jail weeks after his arrest.
Daniella, I wanted to give you a chance to weigh in on Mr. Barnett`s
concern that his pretrial incarceration is not -- quote -- "fair."
GIBBS LEGER: Well, cry me a river is my initial, perhaps not very mature
response to what he has to say.
Does he have a point about our criminal justice system and the way we treat
people who have been charged with a crime, but who haven`t been convicted?
Look, there are a whole bunch of issues how long people stay in jail,
access to bail, all of that, like legitimate concerns that people have been
working on for decades.
I find it very hard to find sympathy for this particular individual, who is
subject to the same criminal justice system that everybody else is dealing
with at the moment. So, no, I don`t feel sorry for him that he has to sit
in jail for a couple of months until his next hearing comes, because that`s
what everybody at the moment has to do, and he doesn`t get special
treatment.
And I wonder why he thinks he deserves special treatment.
MELBER: Why does he think he deserves special treatment?
And, as you mentioned and we have covered, there are many problems with
pretrial detention, particularly for people who are simply too poor to get
representation. Pretrial detention for people facing serious allegations of
terror-related crime who went armed into a government building, they, under
the categories, look a lot more warranted, because he was dangerous.
He took a stun gun into the speaker`s office. A lot of people are lucky
that he didn`t use it. So it`s really striking and I think rich, to say the
least, as you mention as well.
We did want to get that in there.
Daniella Gibbs Leger, thank you for being here.
GIBBS LEGER: Thank you.
MELBER: We have our shortest break of the hour now, 30 seconds.
Coming up, a new scandal for a big Trump ally in Florida. James Carville
back on THE BEAT live in 30 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: While President Biden builds on momentum for his COVID bill and
winning over most Republican voters, the GOP is eying presidential nominees
who can excel, if Trump does not run, by still being Trumpy enough.
To paraphrase Da Brat, the Republican Party is so Trumpified, that its
rising stars are trying to get Trumpy, whether the shoe fits or not, which
brings us to a scandal hitting a Florida Republican who has been acting
very Trumpy, Governor Ron DeSantis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump endorsed DeSantis. We then saw him take
a double-digit lead.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A friend of mine who
has become very, very popular -- I guess that`s what that big applause was
-- your Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: One of the most popular governors anywhere in the country. He is a
champ. He is a winner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The governor who deserves the people`s choice award.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The governor is having a political moment in the sun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: But the sun can be hot. That`s the case with these new and somewhat
damning allegations that DeSantis is playing politics with life-and-death
vaccines.
"The Miami Herald" reporting on a possible bout of special vaccine
treatment for a wealthy Florida Keys enclave that`s filled with Republican
donors who got vaccines in January. That`s even far before not only most
Florida residents, but even health care workers.
Somehow, 17 DeSantis donors there got special vaccine access. It includes
high-rollers who gave him $5,000 each at the end of 2020, plus evidence
that a well-connected former Republican governor of Illinois forked over
$250,000 to DeSantis` political committee in February.
A top Democrat now calling for the FBI to investigate. Critics say this
looks like the worst kind of bribery with lives on the line.
Any hint of policy misconduct handling COVID is a big deal, as we have
reported in the case of Andrew Cuomo`s COVID nursing home scandal, or, as
the evidence may show, in these questions facing a Republican, DeSantis.
Now, for his part, he denies taking any action regarding this entire
situation. He says he was not involved with regard to where those vaccines
went -- quote -- "in any way, shape, or form."
But, boy, the spotlight is on DeSantis, light, as well as heat, someone who
has been touted by right-wing pundits as a rising star, and he has been, of
course, mentioned as a potential presidential candidate.
We`re joined now by James Carville, a veteran of presidential campaigns,
Bill Clinton`s lead campaign strategist, and, if I may, if I may, a friend
of THE BEAT.
How are you, sir?
(LAUGHTER)
JAMES CARVILLE, MSNBC ANALYST: I`m mutual -- the feeling is mutual, a
friend of THE BEAT. I`m fine.
On the DeSantis thing favoring wealthy people getting the vaccine, no one`s
surprised. They want the tax code to favor wealthy people. They want the
entire system to be rigged in favor of wealthy people. So, why wouldn`t
someone try to rig the vaccine to be in favor of wealthy people?
It is totally consistent with modern Republican philosophy that wealthy
people get to cut in line, because the fact that they`re wealthy makes them
virtuous themselves. That`s even a whole branch of Protestantism, where you
-- the fact that you`re wealthy means that God loves you.
And God must surely want wealthy white people to be first in line to get
the vaccine. I mean, it makes total sense, if you think like that, doesn`t
it?
MELBER: Yes.
As you say, they`re publicly on the record about that approach for the tax
code and other things. Politically, James, as I mentioned, this kind of
stuff is a big deal because it matters, as it should.
Politically, it seems that this -- these allegations hurt him more than
just, say, trying the get taxes to benefit that wealthy community, though.
CARVILLE: Well, I think there is all the difference in the world.
I`m being slightly sarcastic here. There is a difference between paying
taxes and getting the vaccine.
But I am not surprised that the system is rigged in Florida to favor
wealthy people. I think it is a basic instinct of people like Ron DeSantis
to say, well -- I`m surprised he didn`t say, of course I did. Everything
that I do in my administration is to serve wealthy people.
And you can see that in public policy time and time and time again. And if
you look at all these voting rights cases, they`re not trying to stop
wealthy people from voting. They`re trying to stop middle- and lower-
middle-class people, African-American people, Hispanic people, immigrants,
anything else. That`s who they`re trying to stop from voting.
You can -- if you live in Buckhead, you can vote, vote early, vote often,
have it at it, 500 voting machines for every 1,000 voters. And I think
people are going to start waking up to this that the system is rigged in
favor of people who already have it made and it`s rigged against the people
that are trying to make it.
MELBER: Yes.
CARVILLE: And I`m not surprised that this -- that we`re having this thing
with the vaccine. I`m not at all surprised.
The only thing that kind of surprised me more is, we haven`t had more of
it. I that suspect we`re going uncover a lot more before we`re done. I
really do.
MELBER: Yes, that`s a fair point.
You have been around the block. People know that, and you`re making the
point that, particularly when you look at the temptation, when you look at
the mind-set, and when you look at potentially corruption, as I have
reported, DeSantis denying it fully. So, it will play out. If he can summon
the evidence that he wasn`t involved, we will see what comes.
You mentioned voting rights, James, which I know you`re passionate about.
And this is another piece of news we wanted to get to, a lot going on, the
House passing this key bill. Speaker Pelosi said it was her first priority.
It`s literally bill H.R.1. Let`s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two major Democratic priorities that were both passed
last night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The yeas are 220 and the nays are 210. The bill is
passed.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): This legislation is there to protect the right to
vote, to remove obstacles of participation, H.R.1, For the People.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: James, sometimes, the politicians sell things as big that are
medium or small. This is not one of those times. This thing does automatic
voter reg. We don`t have that nationally. It deals with the formerly
incarcerated and those issues. It would expand early voting, which we have
seen is a key aspect, it was key in the pandemic, and does some
modernization.
And those are just a few highlights. Your thoughts on this sweeping bill
now passing the House?
CARVILLE: I think it`s the most significant and important piece of
legislation that I can remember.
It`s in the tradition of the 15th Amendment and the 19th Amendment. And the
effects of this, of course, you have a lawyer telling the Supreme Court, if
you let everybody vote, the Democrats are going to win every election.
You have -- you can go on record and find any number of Republican
politicians, lawyers, commentators saying, of course everybody can`t vote.
We wouldn`t win any elections.
And somebody that was born in Georgia and lived in Louisiana, the right to
vote, particularly among black people, particularly in the South, is so
ingrained, you cannot believe it. And what they`re going to do, if they
pass the stuff they`re talking about in Georgia, I promise you, Ari, this
is not going end well.
People are not going to take this. They`re not going to work and they`re
not going to have Frederick Douglass and Martin Luther King Jr. and John
Lewis, and then have a successful election, and then have somebody say, oh,
no, no, that`s not what we`re going to do. We`re going to make it where you
can`t be successful anymore.
If John Roberts thinks that that is -- Shelby County v. Holder, which is --
that`s up there -- that was a really horrific Supreme Court ruling. And I
got news. These people live in an ivory tower. They do not understand
remotely what the right to vote -- you and I, we take it for granted,
because, really, no one`s ever tried to stop us or our parents or
grandparents from voting.
Black people take that a lot different than we do, a lot different. They
have a very different view, and they view it as a gained right with their
blood and their history, and they`re not going let it go easily. I promise
you that.
I know sometimes you say white people shouldn`t say what black people are
thinking. This is one white person going to say, black people think the
right to vote is a hard-earned, glorious right that they`re not prepared to
give up.
I will go ahead and say that and I will take the heat for saying it.
MELBER: You look at this. James, you just made the point that a Republican
admitted in the Supreme Court this week -- and if it flew by people, it`s
worth underscoring.
A Republican lawyer said, they want to change the rules, so fewer people
can vote. Otherwise, Democrats will win elections.
CARVILLE: Right.
MELBER: How big is this as the fault line of the future of American
politics, if you have the growing thinking in the party -- it`s not my job
to say everybody, but someone did say it under oath at the Supreme Court --
is, they got to find ways to cheat because they can`t win if there`s just
normal participation?
CARVILLE: Well, not only that.
Why didn`t some Supreme Court justice say, wait, wait, counsel, let me get
this straight? You`re saying that if we enforce the 15th and the 19th
Amendment and we enforce the 14th Amendment for equal protection, all
right, and you`re saying, if we did that, we shouldn`t do it because it
would force an outcome to an election that you don`t like?
Are you really making this argument before the United States Supreme Court?
Really? If you think of it, the right to vote is very popular, all right?
In Florida -- we talk a lot about Florida. In 2018, 60 percent of
Floridians thought that convicted felons who had served their times should
have the right to vote.
What the heck do you think people think about a waitress in the Waffle
House not having the right the vote? I mean, what do you think people think
of a baggage handler at Atlanta Airport not having the right to vote?
I mean, this is -- the Democrats have got to really frame this argument a
lot better and a lot clearer, because if we don`t, and these state
legislatures go through this, and the Supreme Court goes through with this,
I`m really afraid we`re going have a terrible outcome in this country.
MELBER: Yes. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: People are just not -- they`re not going to be happy.
This is an entirely different thing to a population in America. This is a
hard-earned, much-fought-for, difficult right that has been acquired, and
they`re not going give it up easily, nor will people like you and I be very
happy about it either, to be very frank about it.
This is a very dangerous -- and, of course, the lawyers admit it. Trump has
said it before. Any good researcher can come up with example after example.
And they have to...
MELBER: Yes.
CARVILLE: They have to limit the franchise, because it is the only way that
they can win elections. And we have got to be very clear about making that
point clear.
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: Yes. And we`re staying on it in terms of facts and evidence out
there, and it`s a story with both elements, because you have the House
making this progress.
We will see what happens in the Senate on that bill, because it could go
all the way to the president`s desk, and then you have the state level.
James Carville, as always, thank you for being here on THE BEAT, sir.
I`m going fit in a break.
But still ahead, the new battle line over masks stretching from Washington
all the way down to Texas, the governor under fire. We`re going go right
into Texas, including where some people are speaking out about the concern
the government doesn`t have their back anymore.
A special interview -- after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: A fight exploding in Texas over masks ballooning into a national
story, new pressure on Governor Greg Abbott there. He rescinded the mask
mandate in the state.
But there is a 27 percent spike of COVID cases and confirmation of
something we`re all worried about in many places, new COVID variants. While
you`re at it, if you`re looking at this from a policy level, Texas has one
of the lowest vaccination rates from the country.
Today, Governor Abbott is blaming -- well, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): The Biden administration has been releasing
immigrants in South Texas that has been exposing Texans to COVID. The Biden
administration must stop importing COVID into our country. That is a
Neanderthal-type of approach to dealing with the COVID situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: This is what the spat now looks like, the governor taking a shot at
the president, Joe Biden, obviously. He also is using a quote there you may
have heard about, Neanderthal.
Health official says it is too soon for a full reopening, and it`s too soon
to stop masking around others. So, that`s just the medical facts.
Here is Dr. Fauci today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: My strong advice to them, Joe, would be
to actually continue to implement the public health measures. Now is not
the time to pull back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Now, views in Texas on the ground are varied. Some are eager to
reopen fully and take informed risks. Other business owners, though -- and
this is important to note -- say that having the state government back down
now feels like it doesn`t have their back, putting them and their workers
in the firing line.
Joining me now is a small business owner, Olivia Guerra O`Neal, owner of
Sugar Mama`s Bakeshop and Lola`s Donuts shop in Austin, Texas.
And you can see she has some signs up right there, "Masks required for
entry," as local policy. We`re also joined by infectious disease physician
and MSNBC contributor Dr. Nahid Bhadelia.
Good to have you.
Doctor, we always want to be factual, so we gave that summary.
People can disagree about certain things, but your view of what Dr. Fauci
and others are getting at about when it would be time for state like Texas
to pull back?
DR. NAHID BHADELIA, NBC NEWS MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Ari, to me, it just
seems like we know at this point in a pandemic there`s a big difference
between a complete lockdown and public health measures like masking, like
distancing, and ensuring that we keep indoor capacity down, right, things
that protect us, because the virus is still out there.
And, as you said, the variants are threatening to sort of undo all the good
that has happened over the last couple of months. And look at the position
we`re in right now, where the Biden administration has said, by May, we
will have enough vaccines for all adults. We made big moves in the fact we
have vaccinated 50 percent of all people over 65.
But here`s the flip side. The variants are growing in numbers. We have 48
states that have it. And other 50 percent of people over 65 are still
unvaccinated, as are most people who have medical conditions.
The concern that I have is that we`re so close to that potential and silver
lining where more and more of us are protected. And if we open up without
that protection -- I want to quote this study from California that just
came out. What happens when you open up in a pandemic? Who gets the most
excess deaths, occupation wise?
Sixty percent increasing access mortality among Latino agricultural workers
and food workers, 40 percent increase mortality among black retail workers,
and 40 percent in Asian health care workers.
So, those are the folks that sort of bear the brunt when we open up and we
don`t have any measures in place.
MELBER: As you often do, you set the table really, really insightfully,
because this isn`t just neutral. This isn`t just stuff that is happening. I
appreciate that.
I suppose we should start, Olivia, by saying thank you to you, your worker,
your team and anyone else watching around America who does the kind of work
that, as the doctor reminded us, does mean extra exposure, to say nothing
of whether or not you`re getting fully supported.
So, thank you. And share with us your thoughts and experiences about how
this is playing out in Texas.
OLIVIA GUERRA O`NEAL, OWNER, SUGAR MAMA`S BAKESHOP: Well, thanks for having
me on.
And you starting with a thank you brings up a really interesting point to
me, that, oftentimes, hospitality front-line workers, we have been praised
throughout the pandemic because we`re bringing people their groceries and
we`re bringing people their meals. But we`re also the first people to be
sacrificed in this pandemic.
And we`re put at the front lines, with very little to no support, from
financial support. From the state of Texas, we haven`t seen anything. There
has been little to no outreach. All of the work that`s being done to
support the service industry and the hospitality industry, we`re supporting
each other.
And so to have that complete lack of support from the beginning of the
pandemic and now reopening Texas with a no mask policy, which is, as you
said earlier, putting our staff in the line of fire, people don`t just
decide to not patronize businesses where they have to wear the mask. If
they don`t want to wear a mask, they antagonize those businesses.
They bully those businesses, and they try to blacklist those businesses,
instead of simply taking their business elsewhere. And that has me
terrified for my staff and myself and my family.
MELBER: When you hear the Texas governor and his allies say, hey, we`re
adding liberty and choice, we`re just removing a requirement, but any
establishment in any place can still have its own rule, as we showed on
your door you do, what`s your response to that defense?
GUERRA O`NEAL: My response to that is, where have you been this entire
time, Governor Abbott? You haven`t done anything to support us.
We have been reaching out and begging and asking for help to survive this
pandemic, and you have not been here to help us. And now you are not
listening to our pleas. You are not listening to our concerns, and you`re
telling us that we don`t matter and that small business in Texas doesn`t
matter.
MELBER: Doctor?
BHADELIA: Yes, and I think that have always done this, right?
Look, we started off on the wrong foot on Memorial Day last year, almost a
year ago, and we have been playing this game where we let down the guard
before we have all the things in place to address the threat. Then we have
this peak of cases and deaths. So, we go around trying to put all our
resources into controlling that peak, going back into public health
restrictions, only to get back to a point where now we`re finally at a
point where we have the tools.
And we`re going to make the mistake just as we`re about to cover the
population with that immunity. And so it just seems like an exercise in
futility to me.
MELBER: Yes.
GUERRA O`NEAL: I would also like to add...
MELBER: And finally, Olivia -- go ahead.
GUERRA O`NEAL: Oh, I`d like to add that opening up the hospitality industry
in Texas, one would think that giving us vaccines and making us part of
that preferred group would be a way that Governor Abbott would help us and
be proactive.
And the Texas Food and Wine Alliance, which is a nonprofit group, boots on
the ground, they are the ones who are working with a local pharmacy to try
to get hospitality workers vaccinated, with the Texas Restaurant
Association.
So, we truly do not have not just the support, but the infrastructure from
the state, where, again, we are doing this ourselves as a community. And
that`s hard.
MELBER: Understood.
I`m really glad to hear your perspective. We have been talking to business
owners at times throughout all of this, for the reasons stated.
Olivia, I would be remiss if I didn`t ask you, in closing, what is the
highest-selling type of donut in your establishment?
GUERRA O`NEAL: Oh, gosh.
I would say one of our jelly-filled donuts. But you have to wear a mask to
get your hands on one of those.
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: You have got to wear a mask.
Dr. Bhadelia, jelly being, I`m told, equivalent to an apple in terms of
health, jelly donut fine, right?
GUERRA O`NEAL: Absolutely.
BHADELIA: Only for the next 30 seconds. After that, it goes back to being
more unhealthy.
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: OK. All right.
Well, look, I -- Olivia, we reached out to you because of the work you`re
doing. But when I saw the donut shop, I thought, I love a good maple bar,
which I always feel gives you extra donut, the long one. It`s kind of hike
having two donuts, but you only have to order one.
But, again, that`s personal.
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: Olivia Guerra O`Neal and Dr. Bhadelia, thank you both for all
aspects of the conversation.
I will tell you, we have a lot more in the program, including an important
story we have been following from the beginning. But this is an NBC
exclusive, George Floyd`s brother now speaking out. This is days ahead of
the murder trial for the former officer who took Floyd`s life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELOSI: We`re proud of this legislation. It will not erase centuries of
systemic racism and excessive policing, and it will not bring back George
Floyd, but it will take a tremendous step forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Speaker Pelosi on the House passing the police reform bill named in
honor of George Floyd.
This bill would ban the neck restraints that have proven so controversial,
federal no-knock drug warrants. It would also reform immunity for police
officers, something you may have noticed we have been reporting on here
because it`s a crucial part of accountability.
Meanwhile, when it comes to criminal accountability, the trial for the
officer indicted for murdering Floyd, Derek Chauvin, begins Monday.
Now there are the calls for reforms. But we should note police violence
remains well-documented on the same rate, you see the blue line there, in
`21, following the same rate of shootings as prior years, and far higher
than most comparable countries.
We`re joined now by Brittany Packnett Cunningham, an activist on police
reform. She also served on President Obama`s Policing Task Force.
Your thoughts about both the accountability that we mentioned. The very
fact that Officer Chavez is on trial is a rarity fact in American life. The
passage of this bill is a rarity, because police groups largely had
protested to some of its ingredients, and yet the line we show there is a
sad reality that not much is changing day to day yet.
BRITTANY PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I will tell you, something
that I was glad to see among the many first steps in this bill that were
necessary was an end to qualified immunity.
I`m glad that that did not get erased from the conversation, because what
that is, is an inclination to allow police to exist above the rest of us,
to allow them to live above the law and to live above the normal
expectations that everyday citizens have on all of us all the time.
The fact of the matter is, though, that I would very much like to not have
a reason to hold police accountable because they are not killing us.
MELBER: Right.
PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM: So, as you have rightfully said, accountability is
only half of the conversation. There have been some important first steps
in this bill.
I`m hopeful that the Senate will actually make moves to consider this, but
I`m really hoping to see, even more than this, a mind-set shift. We talk
about reform a lot. We like that word.
But I maintain that you reform things that are broken. You replace and
transform systems that are causing harm exactly as they were designed to.
You cannot disconnect modern American policing from slave patrols, from
racial caste systems, and from systems of white supremacy.
Therefore, reform efforts will always fall short. Shifting our paradigm
from reform to transformation, a full reimagining of public safety, and
actually replacing the systems that harm us, that is where we need to go
next.
MELBER: You just said something, Brittany that is very fundamental, so I
just want to underscore it, that the goal is not having working systems
that allow you to sue police for unlawful killings.
The goal is to stop unlawful killings. And while that sounds
straightforward, the discussion around immunity and other accountability
measures are to change the conduct out on the street, not to have an after-
action plan.
And so Mr. Floyd`s case, his killing hangs over all of this. He is named in
the bill, as you know, as reported.
And, as promised to viewers, I want to play briefly his brother speaking
out. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILONISE FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: He had his soul taken from him
right there on the spot. Blood was coming from his nose, and the officer
still sat there on his neck like it was OK.
It`s never OK to hurt somebody like that. We shouldn`t have to go to court
for anything like this. We shouldn`t have to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: We shouldn`t -- we shouldn`t have to go to court. We shouldn`t have
to have all this political debate, because it shouldn`t happen in the first
place, Brittany.
PACKNETT CUNNINGHAM: That`s right.
My friend and brilliant activist lawyer Derecka Purnell wrote something
brilliant in "The Guardian" today about this case, about this bill. The
fact of the matter is, this bill bans choke holds, but a choke hold didn`t
kill George Floyd.
There was a knee on his neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds. And the fact
of the matter is, that is not the only tactic that police often employ to
kill people, mostly black, brown and indigenous.
When they have that many tactics to kill us, the only way to solve this
issue is to severely limit contact. The only way to limit contact is to
shrink the role of police in society. The only way to shrink the role of
police in society is to actually take money from those bloated budgets and
invest that money back into building strong and safe communities from the
inside out.
And I will happily be a broken record on this until we don`t have to sing
that song anymore.
MELBER: Brittany gets the last word on this tonight.
And we will be keeping up with you as one of our experts. Thank you.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Welcome back.
Boy, have we covered some serious stuff, because there`s a lot of serious
stuff going on.
But we do have a little bit of lighter news about the infamous golden Trump
idol from the conservative conference that was making the rounds.
MAGA fans say they love it. People were taking selfies. Some people were
talking about buying their own mini-versions of the idol, but a new
revelation about the golden statue that you may need to know.
For the America first crowd, well, it was actually made in China, a
business partner of the statue`s artist saying, "Everything is made in
China," which may be just a bit off-message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: From this day forward, it`s going to be only America first.
I will always put America first.
America first.
Make America great again.
Finally putting America first.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: That does it for THE BEAT. I will see you again at 6:00 p.m.
Eastern tomorrow.
But if you want to have more discussion about this donut issue that came up
in tonight`s program, including what is the ideal donut to get when you`re
on the go -- I was voting for maple -- you can engage with us about this
important issue @AriMelber on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook.
I promise to reply to some donut messages.
"THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID" is up next.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END
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