Summary:
Even as the Senate fails to convict Donald Trump, a record-breaking number of Senate Republicans join Democrats to vote guilty. A new song rebukes MAGA rioters in a big way. The New York attorney general puts heat on New York state and COVID scandals. President Biden demands action with or without Republicans on COVID relief. Senator Richard Blumenthal speaks out.
Transcript:
NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: "THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER" starts right now.
Hi, Ari.
ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: Hi, Nicolle. Thank you so much.
Welcome to THE BEAT. I am Ari Melber.
And we are tracking right now this continuing fallout over the unusual scene Saturday night, as the United States Senate made history with the most bipartisan vote to convict a president ever. A record-breaking number of Senate Republicans joined Democrats to convict Donald Trump of a high crime against this nation, inciting insurrection, leading to tonight`s news of Speaker Pelosi calling for a brand-new independent probe of that MAGA attack on the Capitol.
Now, despite the understandable fatigue and skepticism out there, nothing about this trial really went like anyone, even very knowledgeable politicos or news experts, might have expected even just one year ago.
What I can report for you today, which we didn`t know going into Saturday, let alone previously, is that Donald Trump has now been dealt the most bipartisan and most direct, really, condemnation of any president ever in one of these types of trials.
And what we have learned has been more clarifying than most projects that emanate from Congress these days. It included a first, Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell speaking in one voice about Donald Trump`s immoral responsibility for his attack on democracy as we know it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN WILLIAMS, MSNBC HOST: And after all that, it is over.
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: The Senate acquittal of Donald J. Trump, the final vote 57-43.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): The failure to convict Donald Trump will live as a vote of infamy.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): This was the most bipartisan presidential impeachment in the history of the United States.
DEL. STACEY PLASKETT (D-VI): He knew who these people were. He perpetuated their anger and their violence and then directed it at the Capitol. That`s what we proved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: That`s what they proved.
And let`s be clear. As a factual matter, they did prove a lot in public, which is valuable for truth, even if the final vote was short of the supermajority that is required to convict and then potentially bar someone from office.
It`s also a measure of the strong case here that many Republicans like McConnell did not even try to claim this weekend, that their vote to acquit was actually a vote for Trump`s action, instead dodging and weaving on technicalities, which had Speaker Pelosi denouncing that approach as cowardly.
Now, that is the substance as we head into a new week in Washington. The politics are a bit more craven. Lindsey Graham, who famously called Donald Trump an embarrassing bigot before Trump won the nomination to the House, well, Graham is now openly doing what the old Graham would have condemned, be that the Graham of 2015, who condemned Trump, or even the Graham who spent a large chunk of his career before politics as a military lawyer.
Because Senator Graham is now trying to weaponize the serious legal process of impeachment into a political attack, doing it blatantly, rushing to argue that people who married into the Donald Trump family are now more likely to win a Senate seat someday thanks to this vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): North Carolina, the biggest winner, I think, of this whole impeachment Trump is Lara Trump. My dear friend Richard Burr, who I like and have been friends to a long time, just made Lara Trump almost a certain nominee for the Senate seat in North Carolina to replace him if she runs.
And I certainly would be behind her, because I think she represents the future of the Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Well, the future is, I guess, paved with recent history. It was just January 6 when Senator Graham took to the Senate floor and said -- quote -- "Enough is enough" about pushing Trump`s election lies.
Now we can show you he`s got plans to go down and see Trump at Mar-a-Lago to talk about the future.
But within all of this hypocrisy is some bare political math for those who are following the politics, like Senator Graham. Republicans are out of power. Republicans are more splintered about Donald Trump now in public than at any point in the last four years, with more senators in the party on record not only about opposing him in general -- and, by the way, everyone`s free to support or oppose any leaders they want as a civic matter -- but now you have more senators than ever before literally publicly convicting him as an enemy of the state.
"The New York Times" is writing about this fissure and how anti-Trump Republicans will have to figure out how they might go about transforming their party into something other than a vessel for a semi-retired demagogue.
The conservative "Wall Street Journal" editorial board speaking out, saying Trump won`t win another national election and that his behavior was inexcusable and will mar his legacy for all time, warning the GOP will remain in the wilderness until it does too.
These are developments. If you have spent any time with those of us in the news over the last four years and said, when will this or that person stand up, well, some of them are standing up, not as many as the impeachment managers needed constitutionally, not as many as folks around the country - - and I don`t just mean Democrats or resistance -- but a lot of folks wanted, but more than before.
So, that means, whatever one thinks of exactly how the trial went, it is now clear it flushed out into the open what really five years of Trump`s antics did not, that many conservative leaders, from the thinkers at "The Journal," to some donors on Wall Street, to Mitch McConnell, to several senators, they all know Trump was a dangerous demagogue.
They are going on record, however tardily, against him. They`re also out of power. They may be standing up precisely because the voters kicked him out. And other than some red state Republican primaries, which are, of course, a collection of a minority set of views, the majority in America does not prefer Trump.
It didn`t in 2016. It didn`t in November 2020. It didn`t in January 2021, which is pretty recent, when Trump made himself the issue in Georgia, and Georgia, a historically red state, picked two Democrats and dethroned and demoted Mitch McConnell.
So, there are a lot of leaders here even within Republican ranks who believe that Kevin McCarthy and Lindsey Graham are wrong to bet that cowering down in Florida is the road to power, that packing your bags and your morals and hoping the road to more power in Washington runs through Florida`s Mar-a-Lago is a losing bet.
Let`s get into all of it now, the law, the politics, and the civic challenge ahead.
We are thrilled to have quite the expert panel, Melissa Murray, law professor with NYU University, who NYU doesn`t demand to be called Judge Murray, but it has happened in some of these discussions, Jason Johnson, a journalism professor and analyst for us, and Bill Kristol, director of Defending Democracy Together.
There are many aspects to this, and I have tried to in our trial coverage really focus, Jason, on that it is a constitutional process. But the trial is over, the votes are in, and so out of our experts here, I go to you on the politics first, because it seems that many senators are admitting that`s how they viewed it, and yet more Republicans speaking out against Trump even in a political lens than before.
JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
Well, they`re doing it, Ari, because they always knew he was guilty, right? It`s not just that Mitch McConnell said he was guilty. There`s that old video of an interview with Ted Cruz from like 2015 saying -- literally saying that Donald Trump incites violence.
They always knew from the very beginning that Donald Trump was guilty. But they made a political calculation that it was too dangerous to speak against him.
But here`s the problem going forward. And this has to do not just with the vote, but what they`re going to try to do in 2022. Usually, if somebody gets knocked out of power, the next people to step up are very clear. Right? Well, it`s not going to be Mike Pence, because Republicans in the Senate basically just said, well, we want him dead. Right? We don`t care about the fact that Trump tried to have him killed.
It`s not going to be Josh Hawley. He`s been such a disappointment. He`s been pilloried throughout the press. Nobody really likes Ted Cruz. So the Republicans aren`t just in the wilderness from the standpoint of, we don`t know how we want to deal with Trump. They don`t know what their leadership is going to be, because even their leaders, whether it`s Mitch McCarthy -- it`s Mitch McConnell or Mike (sic) McCarthy, have all pretty much come forward and spoken out of both sides of their neck when it comes to Donald Trump.
So, for all these years where it was easy to say Dems in disarray, we now literally see a Republican Party that is in disarray. And the only part of the party that seems to be organized is the part that wants to be a front for a terrorist organization. And that`s where you get your Jim Jordans and your Matt Gaetzes.
So, that`s the real difficulty they`re facing here. They`re going up against the polls. They`re going up against their voters. And while Mitt Romney may get censured and Cassidy in Louisiana may get censured, the vast majority of the party is trying to figure out, how do we have a national message going forward that`s not just, we`re white nationalist terrorists and you should like us?
MELBER: Professor Murray, your view on the utility of a trial that does establish where people are at and whether Trump did it? More Republicans admitting he did it than there were conviction votes.
MELISSA MURRAY, NYU SCHOOL OF LAW: Well, again, I have said from the beginning that this was going to be something that played out not just in the halls of the Senate, but also in American living rooms.
Like, they were making a case to the Senate, surely, but they knew that their case would likely fall on deaf ears. The bigger play was to make clear to the American public that this happened on January 6, not by chance, but because this particular president stoked the fires for weeks, and then set the whole thing aflame with a single match at that January 6 rally.
So they were making a case. And, again, I think Jason`s exactly right. The point, I think, of the impeachment trial at bottom was to make the case to the American people that this is someone who was not fit to serve on January 6 and is not fit to serve going forward.
MELBER: Bill?
BILL KRISTOL, DIRECTOR, DEFENDING DEMOCRACY TOGETHER: I think the House managers did a terrific job of making that case, and we shouldn`t let it go by without really acknowledging that.
As an American, I really felt proud watching them make those arguments. Not every country has a system, whatever Trump -- damage Trump has done to it, where you can impeach a president and have an actual hearing before the Senate, in which the House -- the members of the House, elected officials, make serious, constitutional, fact-based arguments calmly and eloquently in a way that speaks to senators and the voters` better judgment and to their intellect and to their -- and treats them as serious adults, as serious citizens.
A lot of Republican senators didn`t want to hear it. Basically, they were just there to be juror -- they were not there to be jurors. They were there to be jury nullifiers. And so they did that.
I wish I could be as optimistic, though, as Jason about the future. Most of the Republican Party is on board with Trump. And that is -- Lindsey Graham is right politically in his analysis of the intra-Republican dynamics. Maybe that`s a losing hand. I hope it is.
I wish I could be more certain, though. You know, it was kind of -- they do have 50 senators and 211 House members, and Trump lost a few key states by a few votes. And 2022`s is going to be an off-year election in the Biden presidency
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: Bill, we have gotten to know you. We don`t really think of you as an optimist, man.
KRISTOL: Thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
KRISTOL: Well, what is the joke? That the good thing about being a pessimist is either things go badly and you`re right or things go well and you`re pleasantly surprised.
I hope I will be pleasantly surprised. But I would say this also. Just you mentioned "The Wall Street Journal" editorial page, which has been such a legitimizer, rationalizer for Trump among conservative elites. Take that as an example.
If Trump were to be the nominee in 2024 or a Trumpist were to be the nominee, or if Trumpists sort of win Republican primaries, Lara Trump, whether it`s Trump literally or people like Trump in various states, do we not think "The Journal" will support those people? Do we not think a lot of those donors will come back to support Kevin McCarthy`s Republicans in the House in 2022, when it`s, oh, my God, we have a chance to win the House and stop the Biden left-wing horrible agenda?
So, I am worried about, remain worried, as worried as ever -- and I say this with great respect for the 10 House Republicans and seven Senate Republicans who did the right and courageous thing -- I am as worried as ever about the future of the Republican Party, and it`s one of our two major parties. So I`m worried about the future of America.
MELBER: Well, Bill -- Bill, you`re doing it right now. I mean, here you have "The Journal" that`s finally standing up, which is what people asked for, and you`re saying, yes, because it`s convenient, but you pessimistically worry that they won`t actually be intellectually consistent when they can get tax cuts in exchange for something else in the future.
On the flip side, the premise of my joke, if you want to call it that, is that Bill`s pessimism has been right. He was very stark about -- Melissa, about the way that he thought Donald Trump was not a political difference of opinion, but Bill and a few others spoke out very early on him, saying, no, this is a threat to democracy.
How has that borne out, Melissa, as a final thought about the trial?
MURRAY: Well, I mean, I think one of the things we haven`t really talked about is, what does this mean for impeachment as a constitutional restraint on executive power going forward?
And this is something I will be talking about with my students tomorrow in com law. But I think it`s clear impeachment can be a restraint on other public officials. But given our highly polarized political climate, I really wonder if this really can be an effective tool for an executive or chief executive that has really run amok.
MELBER: Yes. I think that`s a great point. I`m running a little over on time.
But we will be having all of you back. We need to discuss and understand as a society that the founders were banking on more interbranch competition. But when you have a Cruz and a Hawley and others doing the inside job, it does cut against that.
With just the 20 seconds I have left, Jason Johnson, I do have to ask you. Were you surprised to see Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham be so hypocritical?
JOHNSON: No. No. And everybody out there who`s screaming...
MELBER: No, it was a joke question too.
JOHNSON: ... will the real Republican Party please stand up, this is the Republican Party.
Yes. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Yes, I`m not shocked.
They are a bunch of lying weasels. They always have been.
MELBER: I thought I`d get even more outrage from you, Jason, like, no, of course, I wasn`t surprised.
But go ahead. Finish your thought, and then I`m going to fit in the break.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Yes, this is exactly who they are.
Like, he was a liar all the time. All the allegories about scorpions and frogs and everything else like that Mitch McConnell is a liar. Lindsey Graham is basically just a parasite on whoever he thinks is powerful at that particular period of time.
The Democrats would be idiots to think that these people are ever going to negotiate in good faith, which is why -- and I have to mention this -- yes, the House managers did a good job, but they should have brought witnesses, because the more that you can embarrass these people and show what hypocrites they are, the more effective the trial would have been.
MELBER: Yes. Well, and we`re going to get into that later in the program. Witnesses are a product of truth. If one side has a problem with truth, then expose it. But that`s what witnesses do.
I`m going to fit in the break.
Jason, I believe you snuck in I think it was one Eminem reference, if I`m counting correctly.
JOHNSON: Very good. Very good.
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: All right. Jason keeps it`s hardest, because he doesn`t even cite them. He just weaves them.
Jason, Melissa and Bill kicking off our coverage. Thanks to each of you.
I`m keeping it moving, because Neal Katyal`s here. We`re going to get into all of this in 30 seconds, including why there`s new talk from Republicans about prosecuting Trump and sending him to jail.
Neal in 30.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We`re back covering this most bipartisan impeachment in history. Seven Republicans voted to convict; 13 additional Republicans, by our count, who acquitted Trump also directly criticized him to some degree in their statements over the weekend.
You count it up, and you have 20 Republicans hitting Trump, far more than usual, as we have reported. That includes McConnell, who basically played up the idea that Trump could go to jail, saying he`s liable for everything he did while he was in office.
Discussing legal jeopardy, impeachment is a civic process. Trump was acquitted. As a public matter, that does not do anything one way or the other for any potential criminal or civil investigations.
And for that, we bring in an expert on the matter, former acting Solicitor General Neal Katyal, who has written and studied these issues and, of course, been an expert along many of these stories.
Good to see you, Neal. I`m just going to hand you the ball and say your thoughts on all of the above with this discussion of legal exposure.
NEAL KATYAL, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so I think Trump already faces legal exposure now on three different fronts.
One is criminal. And that comes in two different flavors, the state and local prosecutions in Georgia and New York, perhaps other places, as well as possible federal action. That`s what Mitch McConnell was referring to when he basically blessed all of this, which is a remarkable for him to do. So, that`s one front.
The second front is the 14th Amendment front, the idea that Trump can be barred from office as an insurrectionist. That may be able to be done by a simple majority vote.
And then, third, what happened today is Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, called for a January 6 commission. And that commission very well may have the power to make criminal referrals for prosecution. And in the past, criminal prosecution referrals didn`t do anything because they went to Bill Barr. But Bill Barr is not the attorney general anymore.
So you have got all three of those things. And then you have got the results from the trial last week, which, on one level, looks really good for Trump, in that he was acquitted. But then, as you have been saying, you scratch below the surface, this is really bad news for Trump.
Even the people who voted to acquit him, most of them voted to acquit him not on the facts, but because they thought there wasn`t jurisdiction. People like Mitch McConnell voted to acquit him, but they said, you`re guilty, and not guilty of like minor thing like tearing the mattress tag off or something like that, of an insurrection on the United States Capitol.
Given that, given that a majority of the American population, 58 percent, support his conviction and the like, and now you have McConnell`s statement, it`s very hard not to prosecute or to at least open that investigation.
MELBER: Yes. You just laid it all out very masterfully. So, I think that`s helpful for our clarity.
On the criminal front of actual criminal investigations, one could understand how people, just regular people, might feel a little tired of all this and say, gosh, can`t we focus on other things? Or James Comey came on this very program and made that argument.
Ultimately, as you and others have reminded us, we`re allowed our emotions, but, luckily, that is not what dictates the law. And if you lived in New York in a certain decade, you might be really tired of all these mob prosecutions, especially when they were beating some of them. And people said, well, forget it.
How many times am I going to read about the Cosa Nostra? I get it. They do crime, they get away with it, let`s move on.
People are allowed to feel that way and they`re allowed to say that, because we have a First Amendment, Neal. But walk us through why, for example, in Georgia, that is not an acceptable response to what is a new criminal investigation of a potentially new crime around the election.
Reading here from local coverage, they say, senators on the January 2 phone call -- so that`s just literally last month -- to Georgia`s secretary of state with an effort that they view as enough criminal intelligence and evidence to open the probe. Walk us through that.
KATYAL: Well, nobody`s more sick of Donald Trump and his legal problems than I am. But that is not a reason to not prosecute.
Our entire criminal justice system is based on really the question, did you do it or not? And these allegations in Georgia backed up by a phone recording of everything that Trump said to the Georgia secretary of state, is really, really damaging.
Now, Trump basically survives because he drives us into being numb on all of this. And just we want to walk away, want to think about anything else. I sympathize with that.
The post-January 20 time has been so peaceful, comparatively to the previous time. But we live in a society in which the rule of law matters. You have had 57 senators, plus many other Republicans, as I said, who even voted to acquit, but who said Trump did it and did something very major.
At that point, it`s very hard not to open the criminal investigation. What is the rule of law, if not going to stand up and prevent election interference the way he did in Georgia or an armed attack on the Capitol?
So, you know, Americans are saying this. I think the U.S. Senate is saying this. They`re basically saying what Taylor Swift said. I think you did it.
MELBER: Strong. Strong, Neal.
And that`s the last word on that, Neal Katyal and Taylor Swift, with folk wisdom.
For more of Neal`s analysis, I want to remind everyone you can always go to MSNBC.com/openingarguments, where we have this and other pieces.
Coming up, there is a new song that is rebuking MAGA rioters in a big way. We`re going to explain.
Also, the New York attorney general putting the heat on New York state and COVID scandals.
But, first, President Biden gearing up tonight, and we have a report on what he`s doing, demanding big action with or without Republicans, and a special guest next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: President Biden`s agenda now at center stage. He returned to Washington today from Camp David.
And he`s laying out priorities, the COVID relief bill first, where they already showed they will go it without Republicans. This is also a week where Joe Biden will make his first trips as president to rally supporters, including trying to build grassroots support for this bill in the Midwest. He will move forward without any Republicans, if need be, and they say they have the structure in the Senate to do that.
Another sign for Biden today, "The Washington Post" says there are large numbers of Republican voters and local officials who are now with him on going big and bold on COVID.
That is, of course, a contrast to what he`s getting from some elected Republicans in Washington.
Now, Biden`s also making it clear today about other key items coming down the pike, infrastructure, immigration, criminal justice reform, climate change and health care.
Joining us now for an update on what it looks like in Biden world is former pollster to President Obama Cornell Belcher.
Good evening, sir.
CORNELL BELCHER, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: How are you, brother?
MELBER: I`m good. Thanks for asking. Nice to have you.
You look at that list. We all understand why COVID relief comes first, and they already say that they have the test vote there in the Senate to get it done. That`s clearly progress.
What do you think of this big ticket list of items?
BELCHER: I think it`s really -- quite frankly, Ari, it`s in line with what Americans want.
If you look at all the polling that`s out there right now, it`s not that the minimum wage increases is unpopular. You have large majorities of Americans that think that we should increase the minimum wage. And, by the way, when you get to majorities that are approaching 65 percent, 64 percent of Americans, it is bipartisan at that point, because you do have Republicans and certainly a majority of independents on your side.
So, if you look at the big picture items around infrastructure, if you look at it around the COVID relief program, and even if you look at raising the minimum wage, the president has the majority on his side.
And one interesting note that I think was lost in ABC`s polling from about a week ago was, you actually have now a plurality of Americans that think that the president should move ahead with his COVID relief program even if it doesn`t -- even if he can`t bring along Republicans in Congress to do so.
So, clearly, he does have a mandate to move these big ticket items.
MELBER: Yes.
And thinking about what the Biden team is doing this week and turning this page, I`m curious what you think about the way that politics can be red, blue, left, right. And everybody knows that spectrum. But it can also be Washington vs. the rest of the country.
And Joe Biden`s always leaned into his roots in Delaware and the rest. The fact that they`re putting him out of Michigan and Wisconsin and making a point to say he wants to converse with everyone in the country, which may includes Republicans, but it`s Republicans out there.
BELCHER: Yes.
MELBER: It`s not just Mitch McConnell Republicans in D.C.
Your thought about them trying to move us a little bit from this to this, get out there?
BELCHER: Well, one of the things that you will -- that you haven`t seen a lot in the last four years is message discipline.
And what you have from this White House is, you have message discipline. And, look, they didn`t get bogged down in a lot of the sort of back and forth about -- even about the impeachment.
And I know a lot of our viewers and a lot of the pundits that we have had on MSNBC, we`re red hot about impeachment, but the truth of the matter is, Ari, in two months from now, you and I both know the average American voter in average Middle America, they`re not going to remember much about the impeachment.
What they`re going to be remembering and sort of looking at is, is this White House and Democrats delivering on COVID relief? Can my kids go back to school? Can I get a vaccine? Is the bar down the street going to open back up? Those are the kind of things that sort of are important in Middle America.
And I think it makes a lot of sense for them to be out there in Middle America staying above the fray, not getting bogged down in the back and forth of politics inside of that congressional building.
But it`s also, Ari, something you remember that Bill Clinton famously did as well, sort of this ideal that we`re going -- that we`re going to pivot and we`re going to not play sort of the Democrats-vs.-Republican politics inside Washington.
MELBER: Yes.
BELCHER: I think most successful presidents have that sort of get bigger at the moment, not smaller at the moment, mind frame.
MELBER: Yes. And you mentioned that bar.
(CROSSTALK)
BELCHER: Triangulation was the word I was looking for, Ari.
Remember triangulation.
MELBER: Triangulation?
BELCHER: Yes.
MELBER: I do remember that.
At that bar you mentioned, people also want to know what`s on draft. And if we are to go, because then you could get it, stand out in the street six feet apart, get drunk with your friends at a safe distance, Cornell.
BELCHER: And America will be great again when I can stand out in the street and get drunk with my friends, Ari.
(LAUGHTER)
MELBER: Shout-out to Mardi Gras.
Cornell Belcher, always good to have your wisdom on draft, so to speak. Thank you for being here.
I have got to fit in a break. But we actually have a lot going on in this hour.
We have a special guest on really happened this weekend in the Senate, and a new song that goes right after the MAGA rioters, how that`s echoing across the culture.
Plus: accountability on COVID and what Attorney General Letitia James is up to in New York.
That`s all ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: Turning to a story we have been tracking on THE BEAT.
New York Attorney General Letitia James, who`s vowed to hold anyone accountable under the law, is exposing new and important problems in how New York state has been handling COVID and how it counts COVID-related deaths.
And here`s what`s new tonight. A top aide to Governor Cuomo admitted to covering up the full picture of how people died of COVID in the state, including those who contracted it in nursing homes, citing the fear of basically accountability or a federal investigation.
Now, Governor Cuomo has touted his COVID response. He also once served as attorney general, the very post he`s now clashing with. In response, he is saying there was some kind of information void, but he insists there`s really nothing to investigate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): There is nothing to investigate. All the numbers we produced were exactly right. We didn`t provide all the information that was requested. That did create a void and misinformation did fill the void.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: So, there was a void. There was a problem with providing the information. And then misinformation filled it.
This is the version of the response from New York state government there, from Governor Cuomo now. Of course, this may be a little striking to people because there was a period earlier last year when Cuomo became something of the national face of how to fight COVID.
Now he`s facing many calls to further investigate this part of the handling of the issue. And that same Cuomo aide was admitting that data was withheld because they feared the Justice Department would investigate, saying -- quote -- "Basically, we froze."
And yet it is not the federal DOJ right now, but, rather, the New York attorney general I mentioned, Attorney General James, that is causing some of this new factual exposition, because she has been doggedly investigating and exposing more of how COVID was handled in one of the worst hot spots in those pivotal early months, in New York.
Now, so that you understand exactly what she found, she stated that Cuomo was -- quote -- "vastly undercounting" the death toll from nursing homes.
Now, all of this matters because, as you know from following all of these issues since COVID first hit the United States, getting the right facts out, regardless of how they may affect politicians or government or anything like that, is essential, and, in real time, it can shape the COVID response, with, of course, lives on the line.
In fact, Cuomo himself used to emphasize that kind of -- quote -- "transparency" when he did his monthly -- his briefings throughout the early months of those early stages and he became something of a staple through the daily press conferences and rounds of interviews.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
A. CUOMO: Today is day 286. We`re doing three COVID operations at the same time. Wear a mask.
Today is day 100. And it is a day that New York City begins to reopen.
New York state will mobilize an army. No state will do it better.
You don`t defeat a virus with politics. You use science and technology.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN: Some say that going on shows like "Ellen," where she`s pumping your head up with helium about how great you are and cover of "Rolling Stone," that you now, as we used to say in the neighborhood, think who you are.
A. CUOMO: To do Ellen`s show was a pleasure for me. I`m a big fan of Ellen. Yes, she said nice things about me.
C. CUOMO: Yes, she did.
A. CUOMO: Which she didn`t say about you.
C. CUOMO: Nope.
A. CUOMO: But she was just telling the truth.
C. CUOMO: You`re feeling pretty good these days, aren`t you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Telling the truth.
The issue here is that only full transparency appears to have come to the light under pressure.
James` report, in fact, first came out about two weeks ago. We reported on it then. And what`s striking is, after these this partial report revealed these problems with counting the deaths, then the state responded by actually changing the numbers of deaths from nursing homes.
Cuomo had reported 8,700 nursing home deaths. In late January, after the report, the number changed, rising quite a bit to 12,743. Updated numbers just last week bring the number to above 15,000. You can see the trend line there.
So, Cuomo`s original numbers, we now know, because of this investigation, were off by over 50 percent. And what the Cuomo team was doing was basically trying to allocate deaths that occurred in nursing homes and related to contracting in nursing homes to hospitals. They were, according at least to this new aide, doing that on purpose to try to give an incomplete picture.
Now, the Cuomo team has responded to the report. They basically say that it was an error of accounting. And they emphasize that, when you get out of those individual categories, the total number of deaths did not change, which is fine.
The total number of deaths were not at issue. What was at issue was the evidence of an allegation that maybe things were being deliberately misconstrued to play down the nursing home death rate problem.
And the facts matter. Everyone needs facts, especially in a live emergency of a public health care crisis like this. And before this aide`s admission, Cuomo was the one pressing on the numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: But who cares? Thirty-six, 28 died in a hospital, died in a nursing home. They died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Who cares?
Well, let`s think about it. A.G. James` work stands out here. She previously was something of a political ally of Cuomo as a Democrat. But the release of this damning report does show that she has continued to make good on her dedication to be independent, which is what she promised.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: In this state, we have a set of laws that every individual and entity must be held accountable to, regardless of who you are, regardless of your power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Now, Cuomo is gearing up for a run for a fourth term as governor.
This thorough report, of course, may or may not affect any of that. James appears, though, to be wanting to make sure that everyone gets the facts regardless. And she is standing up for the proposition that this matters.
Her probe continues, and this brings me to that final point. Governor Cuomo said, who cares about the numbers? That is the kind of defense that can sound compelling, because you say, well, yes, if the total number was right, who does care?
But it`s also a little bit of an incriminating defense, because, if nobody cares and there were no differences, you could have released all the accurate category numbers to begin with. What it appears and what people now from inside the Cuomo administration are saying is, who cares? They did.
And they wanted to downplay the fact there was a nursing home problem. This is common in politics, because no one`s claiming the Cuomo administration or any politician caused COVID. We all know we`re living through this pandemic. COVID came to us and just about every other country.
The question is, if you`re touting your response and you`re trying to do it right and you find a mistake or a problem, and there`s lives on the line, do you tell the truth about that?
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: We all hear that seeing is believing.
But the first images we see are not always the whole story, even when they tell important parts of the story, like this instantly infamous image of a criminal rioter lounging at Speaker Pelosi`s desk.
It`s outrageous for many reasons, and impeachment managers cited it as part of a much wider plot to attack the speaker and her staff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PLASKETT: The mob continued to look for Speaker Pelosi throughout the time they occupied the Capitol, including invading her offices.
Trump`s mob ransacked the speaker of the House`s office. They terrorized her staff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: Impeachment managers telling the Senate about the man you see at the desk, Richard Barnett, now indicted for violent and unlawful entry of a restricted building and theft.
He sat so comfortably there, grinning in Speaker Pelosi`s office, brandishing stolen items, his feet up on the desk. Manager Plaskett contrasting video of other rioters lying to police and claiming to have no weapons, when Barnett was actually one of several people who, in addition to what you see here, in addition to what was immediately obvious, he was also, in fact, carrying a weapon into the Capitol.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PLASKETT: The world is all now too familiar with the images from these slides.
If you look closely, however, at the now infamous pictures of Barnett with his feet on the desk, you might see something that you didn`t notice previously. Here`s a better look. As this photo highlights, he`s carrying a stun gun tucked into his waistband.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: So, a picture that was disturbing at first sight for one reason is actually clearly dangerous for other reasons.
You can believe your eyes, but there are things your eyes don`t always see without more evidence and context, which is why trials matter for pursuing a full truth. They happen in public, so people learn the evidence, regardless of what the jury ultimately decides, just as other evidence shows Barnett holding those items he was holding up there inside the office as he left, which he confessed to with utter contempt and zero remorse, telling a reporter why he stole this mail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD BARNETT, DEFENDANT: I didn`t steal it. I bled on it, because they were (EXPLETIVE DELETED) macing me and I couldn`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) see.
And so I figured, well, I`m in her office. I got blood in her office, I put a quarter on her desk, even though she ain`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) worth it. and I left her a note on her desk that says: "Nancy, Bigo was here, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED)."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: He now sits in jail awaiting trial because he was denied bail by the presiding judge, who noted outrage over Barnett`s obvious sense of entitlement and utter contempt for a system, after publicly desecrating the speaker`s office.
Now, that`s a legal part of this process, the impeachment trial, which taught us more about what he was really up to, armed during his trespass, and his own criminal process, which will continue to play out.
But I want you to know tonight these stories are with us in America. They will continue to reverberate, including across the culture.
There`s a brand-new song by artist Jay-Z with also lyrics by the late Nipsey Hussle. And it`s striking to hear Jay-Z, speaking to an audience of millions, really in the United States and around the world, referring to this very incident to call out what he sees as the hypocrisy of the system.
The brand-new song is called "What It Feels Like." And it refers as well to the infamous image of Richard Barnett`s feet up on the speaker`s desk. And Jay-Z discusses losing respect for a system that would ever allow any of this.
And on this topic, Jay gets the last word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY-Z, RAPPER (through translator): You know, they hate when you become more than they expect, you let them crackers storm your Capitol, put they feet up on your desk, and yet you talking tough to me.
I lost all my little respect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MELBER: "Lost all my little respect."
I`m joined now by United States Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, who serves on the Judiciary Committee.
Thanks for being here.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Thank you for having me, as always, Ari.
MELBER: There`s many aspects to this.
First, your thoughts on how this reverberates across the culture, many outraged by that image. The managers, you were in the well when they added context to the armed -- the armed way that Barnett was trespassing, and as well as those thoughts from Jay-Z.
BLUMENTHAL: What is so powerful about those images, Ari -- and thank you for recounting this part of the horrific story -- is that we need to reverse the rising tide of extremist violence in this country.
The mob that Donald Trump mobilized was armed. The Capitol Police and Metropolitan Police recovered firearms on that day. And that mob is still out there and still dangerous.
And part of the reason that I believe we need a 9/11 Commission, that type of commission -- and I`m drafting a bill that I hope will be bipartisan -- is to uncover all the causes, impose accountability, and provide more protection against that kind of a mob, that violent extremism.
MELBER: Yes. Yes. Yes.
And I think there`s -- we`re still learning, as evidenced by that detail of a picture where people felt they already knew a lot about it.
I want I want to ask you about the weekend excitement, when you and others voted to clear the path to add witnesses to trial, and then it was it was pulled back. Politico`s reporting, sources close to those impeachment managers say it was significant pressure from Senate Democrats that made them change course.
Senator Coons twice came into the managers room, presented -- pressed the House Democrats to Atlanta, saying the quest for witnesses might cause Republican votes to convict, maybe even some Democrats.
And then this line got noticed, Senator, Coons telling the managers -- quote -- "People want to go home for Valentine`s Day," according to a House aide as the source.
Was it a mistake to not allow witnesses? And is it true that the reason was that senators, including Democrats, just wanted to end early?
BLUMENTHAL: I think that Jamie Raskin put it very well when he, in effect, took responsibility. And it was his call.
The evidence here was overwhelming. They didn`t need more witnesses. They didn`t lack for evidence. My Republican colleagues lack for backbone and spine here. There was no dearth of evidence.
And as you well know, Ari, because we both tried cases, be careful what you wish for. Additional witnesses can say things that you didn`t anticipate. And there is a need for more evidence before the nation.
You are absolutely right.
MELBER: But you did vote...
(CROSSTALK)
MELBER: The issue there is, respectfully, Senator -- what you say about the Republicans is fair. We have reported on that extensively.
But you voted for witnesses on Saturday, which means you thought or said you thought it was welcome. The reporting here is that then people wanted to go on recess. Is that true or not?
BLUMENTHAL: That is not the reason that there were no more witnesses, absolutely not, Ari?
And I think that Senator Coons may have said it, but I think he was being more facetious than serious. The reason we had no more witnesses was that we were at the high watermark of the number of Republicans we were going to get. And additional evidence was unnecessary to prove that case.
But -- and I want to emphasize the but here -- there is a need for more truth-telling. There is a need for more facts. And that`s why a 9/11-type commission will be important to uncover the larger causes, the individuals who should be held accountable.
And, as you have said, an unsuccessful coup attempt without accountability is a dress rehearsal. That would-be Trump tyrants waiting to mobilize that mob again must be stopped.
MELBER: Yes.
No, I think that`s all very important, particularly when you talk about accountability as public and national security safety.
I should mention, Senator, that, since we both invoked Senator Coons` name, we did invite him on the program tonight. He`s been on before. And we`re happy to have him back.
And I appreciate you taking those questions, because the witness piece was a matter of great intrigue.
Senator Blumenthal, always good to have you, sir.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
MELBER: Thank you.
We will be back with one more thing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MELBER: That does it for us. We will be back at 6:00 p.m. Eastern tomorrow.
"THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID" starts now.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. END