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Transcript: The Beat with Ari Melber, 1/21/21

Guests: Frank Rich, Michael Moore, Libby Casey, Daniella Gibbs Leger

NICOLLE WALLACE, MSNBC HOST: THE BEAT WITH ARI MELBER, who had a very late

night, starts right now.

Hi, Ari.

ARI MELBER, MSNBC HOST: How did you know about that, Nicolle? Weren`t you

asleep?

WALLACE: I can`t hear you, but I`m glad to see you upright.

I know you had a longer...

MELBER: Oh, no.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: ... than me. So, nice to see you, my friend.

MELBER: Nice to see Nicolle. Thank you very much.

Sometimes, we have those audio issues. I was joking with her because she

worked a very long day.

WALLACE: I got it. I hear you now. I hear you now. You sound great.

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: They get their money`s worth out of all of us.

MELBER: I was just saying, Nicolle, I was saying, I don`t know how you

knew, because I hope and trust you were asleep by then.

WALLACE: Well I keep an eye on my -- especially my time slot neighbors. I

know. I`m watching you.

(LAUGHTER)

MELBER: Nothing escapes you. Well, it was an interesting, newsworthy time,

to be sure.

WALLACE: Sure was.

(CROSSTALK)

MELBER: So, good to be with you. I will see you soon, Nicolle.

I want to welcome everyone to THE BEAT. I am Ari Melber.

I`m joining you on January 21, 2021, a day that marks President Biden`s

first full day in office and exactly one year since the first coronavirus

case hit the U.S., which defines President Biden`s focus today. He is

bringing the full powers of the federal government to finish the fight

against COVID, rather than sidelining science or experts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will make sure that science

and public experts -- scientists and public health experts will speak

directly to you. That`s why you`re going to be hearing a lot more from Dr.

Fauci again, not from the president, but from the real genuine experts and

scientists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: That is a direct statement. It`s obviously a contrast. And Dr.

Fauci spoke himself quite bluntly about what he views as a welcome contrast

in this new Biden era.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS

DISEASES: The idea that you can get up here and talk about what you know,

what the evidence, what the science is, and know that`s it, let the science

speak, it is somewhat of a liberating feeling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: A liberating feeling, says the doctor who has served so many

presidents.

This new administration is now doing effectively a standing jump on the

COVID issues because the prior administration left no vaccine distribution

plan whatsoever.

That`s according to a new CNN report. The president countering that with

immediate executive actions, 10 separate orders that tackle COVID policy,

which include fast-tracking the vaccine rollout.

Another contrast today comes at the intersection of COVID safety and

immigration, President Biden deploying his power over immigration in order

to do something. He is immediately ending one of the previous president`s

most controversial policies, an immigration rule that was initially sold as

a ban on Muslims, which morphed into a sweeping ban on migrants from

several countries with high Muslim populations, which drew immediate and

huge protests, you may recall, in 2017.

And it did not make America safer over four years, according to many

security experts.

Well, President Biden not only ended that, but he is now replacing it with

something the prior administration did not bother to do, deploying federal

powers to protect Americans from the spread of COVID by now requiring

visitors from other nations, not just in one region either, but all

nations, have to prove they recently tested negative for COVID in order to

get into the U.S. in the first place.

Now, experts stress America has much work left to contain COVID. But even

some of these seemingly basic steps, like restricting visits from people

who are COVID-positive, will help speed a mission that was often hobbled at

the highest levels.

We begin now with Dr. Natalie Azar, rheumatologist with NYU Langone

Hospital, Daniella Gibbs Leger from the center for American progress and

co-host of "The Tent" podcast and "Washington Post" reporter Libby Casey.

Good evening to all of you.

Doctor, there is much to get into, starting with the notion of confirming

that people don`t test positive, that they`re not basically having COVID or

symptomatic as they come to the U.S. Where does that fit in to this entire

new COVID plan?

And as well, I`m sure we`re all interested in your thoughts on what Dr.

Fauci said.

DR. NATALIE AZAR, MSNBC MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: You know, I think the travel

thing is just one piece of a very complicated puzzle. It`s not foolproof.

As you all know by now, you can test negative and then be exposed.

But I think it`s just one in a series of different defenses that are being

triggered by the Biden administration. You know, I think that some themes

that have emerged are transparency, accountability, certainly equity, and

that is making sure that communities of color and more disenfranchised

folks or people living in rural areas will have access to the vaccine.

You know, I think the overarching message is that this is really going to

be a cross-governmental, cross-sectoral approach. That is, you`re going to

have federal resources, in conjunction with industry and commercial

resources, such as commercial pharmacies, really on all-hands-on-deck

approach in order to bring the pandemic to an end.

And Fauci?

AZAR: Specifically, on how -- now that he has been unshackled, if you will,

and is now our spokesperson? Yes, well, that`s it.

(LAUGHTER)

MELBER: Yes. I mean -- yes, I mean, to your...

AZAR: It is such a relief.

As I was listening to him talk, I was thinking to myself, yes, we always do

want to lead with science. Of course, we do. And even within science, it`s

OK to have a conversation and disagreements and discourse, but at least let

it be at the level of the experts and the scientists judging the merits of

a study, rather than just making things up.

MELBER: Yes, it was striking coming from him. He has the credibility.

It`s no disrespect to the new president, Daniella, to note that Dr. Fauci

has higher public trust than both the new president, who has a higher

bipartisan trust in the numbers we get, and then the previous president,

who was very low.

Dr. Fauci has to feel pretty liberated in order to even say he is

liberated.

(LAUGHTER)

DANIELLA GIBBS LEGER, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Yes.

I pleaded that he looks at least 10 years younger today. It was striking

how freeing he was up there. And it was wonderful to just hear him speak

and know that he wasn`t being muzzled and know that he felt like he could

just actually tell the truth and tell the American people what`s going on

with COVID.

I know we`re only one full day into the Biden presidency, but already the

change has just been absolutely remarkable. And it`s a stark reminder that

what we went through the last four years was not normal, in terms of what

we saw from that podium, the lies, the mistruths, the hiding, the not

having any briefings from the COVID Task Force as the pandemic raged out of

control. That`s not normal.

What we`re going to be seeing over the next couple of weeks and months is

normal.

MELBER: Libby, you are a reporter who has covered more than one

administration, more than one transition. Your thoughts on all of the

above, as well as what is today this first full day of a new Biden era?

LIBBY CASEY, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I mean, seeing Dr. Fauci up there was

so striking for its normalcy.

And the fact that we hadn`t seen a briefing on this COVID crisis since

November by the Trump administration is not surprising, but it is shocking.

And just seeing the federal coordination and the Biden administration

getting ready to use FEMA, right?

This is like a no-brainer, something that people have been talking about

doing for months, to try and get these vaccination centers really set up,

working closely with the pharmacies as they`re ready to transition from

servicing the long-term care facilities, getting HHS really involved to get

more people able to get out the vaccines, right, figuring out what the best

plan is.

If you`re getting people out of retirement, if you`re -- how are you

mobilizing the military, these very basic tools that it is astounding to

realize they haven`t been part of the portfolio that the Trump

administration was using.

And so, in one sense, if you were just plopped down into this, you would

think, well, this is a very reasonable, perhaps even modest game plan. But

when you contrast it with what`s come before, it is such a departure from

what we have seen.

Now, we did see President Biden pressed a little bit and Jen Psaki pressed

on this question of, are you setting too modest of a goal when it comes to

getting these 100 million vaccines out there? And they`re begging off on

that a little bit and trying to contrast themselves with what the Trump

administration was able to do.

The question is, can they do more, but is it better to set modest

expectations and then exceed those expectations, rather than looking like

you`re falling short?

Just the scattershot approach to what has been happening across the states

is shocking. And I`m sure we can all speak from the personal experience of

knowing some people in some states that have had success qualifying and

other people in other states who haven`t.

And this is not a full federal takeover, which made some governors nervous

and some Republicans nervous. This is just trying to get more of the tools

on the table, the federal tools on the table employed in this moment.

MELBER: Yes, all important points.

Dr. Azar, as always, thank you for giving us the scientific perspective off

the top.

Our other two experts stay.

And we bring into the mix professor from Morgan State University Jason

Johnson.

Now, Jason, I just heard Libby say it`s not a full federal takeover, but,

in a political sense, you could also argue the break`s over, and it is a

takeover, because the Democrats...

JASON JOHNSON, MSNBC POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

MELBER: ... have pressed on here through the House, the Senate and the

White House. Your thoughts.

JOHNSON: Yes, don`t call it a comeback. They have been competent for years.

They just couldn`t do it when you had Donald Trump running the country.

Ari, the most amazing thing today was not just the last of scandals but

seeing functional government again. I spent part of the afternoon watching

members of Congress debate the waiver to allow Lloyd Austin to be the

secretary of defense.

No one screamed. No one accused someone else of not being an American

citizen. It`s how government works. It`s Joe Biden coming in and firing the

general counsel of the Labor Relations Board because he really wasn`t in

favor of labor.

This is how a functioning government is supposed to look. It`s not boring.

It`s not less sexy. It`s comforting. It`s competent. And I think, for all

the promises that Joe Biden made about how he was going bring back the good

years of this government, today is a real indicator that he knows what he`s

doing by both addressing crisis and long-term domestic things that we`re

concerned about.

MELBER: Yes.

And for Jason and the entire panel, most Americans who are watching the

news today probably saw a good bit of the inauguration as it happened.

I think there are many reasons why Ms. Gorman was such a standout moment,

how much she packed into what was actually just five minutes out of the

whole day and how it echoes. We have been tracking metrics in a number of

ways. Her books have shot to the top of the entire Amazon national

bestseller list, even though poetry books are rarely in the top 20.

And so, I did want to play a bit of that for everyone as we reflect on this

today. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANDA GORMAN, FIRST NATIONAL YOUTH POET LAUREATE: Somehow, we have

weathered and witnessed a nation that isn`t broken, but simply unfinished.

While democracy can be periodically delayed, it can never be permanently

defeated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: Starting with Jason, what did it mean to you, and why did it

resonate so immediately with so many?

JOHNSON: I love that she said that democracy is unfinished, right?

It`s the idea that you can try to have a restorative administration, but

the promise of this country to provide equal opportunity for all the

citizens here has not just been accomplished. I thought it was amazing.

And, also, I will say this. The first inauguration I ever went to was Maya

Angelou in `92. I was a kid. We had school off. We were all able to go and

Washington, D.C.

And to see another African American woman who was wearing a brooch that she

was given by Oprah which had a caged bird from Maya Angelou delivering a

speech, it was almost sort of a full circle of restorative presidencies

after right-wingers.

And that was Bill Clinton in 1992. As much as people may criticize him, it

was still restorative after Bush. And to see this with Biden, it was a

fantastic speech symbolically and substantively.

MELBER: Well, was it not Maya Angelou who said, I know why the caged bird

sings, but I don`t know why Lady Gaga`s bird is so oversized?

(LAUGHTER)

JOHNSON: It was pure...

(CROSSTALK)

MELBER: I don`t if anybody saw. It was...

JOHNSON: That`s pretty much what it was.

(CROSSTALK)

MELBER: OK, the Lady Gaga bird -- I`m not an expert on fashion, but it was

-- what do they call it, a brooch? Is it a brooch? Anybody know?

JOHNSON: I thought it was mockingjay.

(CROSSTALK)

MELBER: Brooch for 100? A pin? A pin?

(CROSSTALK)

MELBER: Whatever it was, it was a huge bird.

(CROSSTALK)

MELBER: Is it? OK.

JOHNSON: It was a lot, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

MELBER: Daniella, you don`t have to trifle with my dad jokes on a day as

important as today, but your thoughts on all of the above.

(LAUGHTER)

GIBBS LEGER: Lady Gaga does nothing in small measure, and we should all

know that by now, OK?

JOHNSON: No.

(LAUGHTER)

GIBBS LEGER: I thought that poem -- that poem was so amazing.

And it just -- again, it reminded me of everything that we have been

through for the last four years and how cathartic it was to see Joe Biden

and Kamala Harris become president, and a reminder, like Jason said, that

democracy isn`t finished.

And I questioned many times over the last four years whether the bones of

our democracy were strong enough to withstand the weight of Donald Trump.

And the jury is still out. We will see. But I left that inauguration with

her poem feeling more hope and joy and optimism than I had felt in years.

She`s just phenomenal.

MELBER: Libby, your thoughts on what it meant and why it was important and

clearly a deliberate part of what the Biden administration wanted to do in

this ceremony to hear from this young woman at a time where it`s 2021, it`s

the first time we have ever had a woman in this high of a line to become

president?

And in party politics, if you`re a vice president in good standing, you are

generally the heir apparent to run when it`s your turn, so, really, the

first time one can credibly argue that there is a real path for a woman all

the way to the top in the context of that poem.

Your thoughts.

CASEY: Yes, just seeing this 22-year-old strong, beautiful, artistic,

brilliant young woman delivering this poem, an African-American 22-year-old

on this day when we were seeing the first black Asian woman vice president

sworn in, it was just like that moment when we saw Kamala Harris give that

fist bump to former President Obama and have a moment with Michelle Obama,

this acknowledgment of history in the making, a history that for a lot of

Americans feels long overdue, but is finally here.

Amanda Gorman, she acknowledged pain and the difficult past of America, but

she did talk of optimism. This line, she was saying, there is always light,

if only we`re brave enough to see it.

And what we saw in the Trump administration was, at the very end, with the

1776 Commission they had, essentially a denial of history and a desire to

paper over America`s complicated and very painful past.

MELBER: Right.

CASEY: And so we`re turning a page to acknowledgment of what America`s been

through, in the past two weeks, even, in the past four years, but also in

the past 400 years.

MELBER: Right. Yes.

All very important context.

I have a little bit of something else for you, Jason. It`s hard to go from

a high-arcing poet to something a little more petty, and who knows why I

picked you to respond to it. Maybe it`s just random. Maybe it was just your

turn. No one really knows.

(LAUGHTER)

JOHNSON: I`m ready for it.

MELBER: Take a look at a different type of poetry from a well-known Trump

critic, of course, Stephen Colbert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Take him away.

We here at "The Late Show" have been counting down to this day for four

long years.

Tonight, the number on the dome has counted down to one.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: Jason?

(LAUGHTER)

JOHNSON: Look, the level of joy that this country has that -- I won`t even

say his name -- that the previous president and his entire family is

basically gone and gone into exile into Florida is a joy that people will

be experiencing for years.

Stephen Colbert is not going to be the last one. Like, there is just --

there is -- it`s a scene out of "The Wiz," just brand-new day, people just

dancing in the streets, that we not just have a new president, but that the

old one is gone.

And you hear that sound? It`s nothing. Nothing on Twitter. It`s just peace.

And Colbert is all of us in this particular moment.

MELBER: A great and interesting way to kick off tonight`s special edition

of THE BEAT.

Jason, Daniella, and Libby, thank you.

We have our shortest break, just 30 seconds.

On tonight`s program, we have Michael Moore, Biden`s 100-day list, and why

the Democratic majority may be larger than you know.

But, first, Frank Rich -- in 30 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MELBER: Of the many observations that are relevant right now with

Washington changing, there is one that`s quite simple, but is somehow often

forgotten.

In many elections, America is far more blue than red for a very long time.

More Americans voted for the candidate running against Donald Trump than

for him twice, and some of the mood, the euphoria -- and we heard it from

even some of our guests a moment ago, and we saw it in the streets the

moment this all went down that Saturday when the race was called -- that

elation, not just on the left, but in many parts of the country, is a piece

of that.

It was a long uphill fight. But, for many structural reasons, Republicans

have benefited politically from an electoral advantage that is larger than

their actual numbers. Think about the total vote in, say, the past eight

presidential elections.

The Republican candidate got more votes in 2004. OK, you see that. But then

the Democrat got more votes in 2020 with Biden, but also in 2016 and in

2012, plus 2008, also back in 2000, or 1996, or also 1992.

It`s quite a list when you look at recent elections. In seven of the last

eight, Democratic candidates have won more votes from Americans. And that`s

come in times good and bad, recession or not, foreign policy crisis or not.

It`s a reminder that Joe Biden is riding a larger crest of what is often a

very blue country, even if structural reasons sometimes make that hard to

see.

For a special conversation now on this first full day of the Biden era, we

turn to the Emmy Award-winning writer and journalist Frank Rich, writer at

large with "New York Magazine," executive producer of HBO`s "Veep,"

currently executive producer of HBO`s "Succession," which I rewatched in

quarantine, and, of course, a longtime writer for "The New York Times" back

in the day.

We wanted something special here on this first day, and you obliged. Thank

you for making time, Frank.

FRANK RICH, "NEW YORK MAGAZINE": Well, thank you, Ari.

That put a lot of pressure on me. I don`t have a poem, for instance.

But I am -- I have to say, I share completely in the previous guests`

enthusiasm about the inauguration. I thought it was the only one, I think,

in my lifetime that I have seen as a cognizant person that really spoke to

me and really moved me. And I say this even though at the center of it is

Joe Biden, who is not particularly poetic or someone that people get

emotional about.

He is a kind of nuts-and-bolts legislator and politician. But it`s an

incredible opportunity now before him to -- I hate to use the word

historic, but he has this kind of FDR moment, where he can prove the

Democratic theory that government can work and actually benefit people, and

at a time of enormous crises that we don`t have to reiterate, but starting,

obviously, with the pandemic and the economic distress that`s going on

right now.

MELBER: Do you think it`s important that Democrats really lean into the

mandate I mentioned, that there are all sorts of complexities to elections

in the United States, but the overwhelming sweep has been this blue

direction?

RICH: Yes, I think they should lean into it.

I think that one of the things that I liked about what Biden did in the

inauguration, and, frankly, since the election is project confidence and

actual belief in core principles of his party, at a time when they`re

really needed and at a time, of course, also when democracy has been so

betrayed by the previous administration.

And I think they have to lean in. I think the Democrats should lean into

it, not only as a political matter, but also as a patriotic matter, because

the fact is, there is a terrorist white supremacist movement in this

country. It has a hold in the other political party.

It actually has representatives on the floor of Congress. And so it`s an

urgent matter that they lean in, just as you said.

MELBER: I`m curious to get your views as well on how we`re already seeing

this new era play out, with such high stakes that you just alluded to.

It`s revealing to see how Republicans are dealing. Take a look at Senator

Ted Cruz.

Everyone knows, on January 6, after the insurrection, he was leading the

charge to overthrow the election, objecting to Pennsylvania`s electors,

which, among other things, would disenfranchise that state`s voters.

Now Cruz is attacking a reason to reenter a climate agreement, saying it

shows Joe Biden cares more about, guess what, Paris than Pittsburgh,

although it was Cruz trying to disenfranchise Pittsburgh and then some in

PA.

Or House Leader McCarthy. He also voted to overthrow the race, trying to

eliminate Biden`s electors. Here he is today calling Biden divisive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Those executive orders he are sign -- is

signing are partisan. That`s dividing. And I`m afraid that, looking at this

administration, if this is the start, what more is there to come?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: Frank?

RICH: These guys are seditionists. They tried to overthrow a fair and

honest democratic election.

For them now to talk about division, political division, or to call for

unity, another track they have been on since January 6, it`s so bogus on

its face, and it`s also noise that I think should be tuned out and I think

is being tuned out by the Biden administration.

If McCarthy and Cruz and Josh Hawley are in a sort of death march to take

over the Trump base of the Republican Party, I think that`s the Republican

Party`s problem, not the Democrats` problem, as they actually try to

govern. And just let these people -- because the Republican Party, it`s

quite divided.

And they have got a problem. And they have got a problem with some of their

donors, which is important to them. And they have got ideological

divisions, as much as they want to talk about Democrat ideological

divisions, which have been, at least for the moment, somewhat papered over.

So, I would say just ignore them and full speed ahead on 100 days of some

kind of neo-New Deal, if you will, for the Biden government.

MELBER: And given how much writing you have done as a journalist about

truth and power, and then what`s also so interesting to people who are --

who like your other work, the work you have contributed to on "Veep" and

"Succession," and just how sort of propaganda and oratory works or bends or

breaks human psyches, if you will, your thought on how direct the current

government, the new administration should try to embrace what it can do as

being more trustworthy?

Not that we give any fealty to the word of the government automatically.

That`s not really the Constitution`s vision, with a muscular fourth estate,

but that there should be common facts.

How important is that do you think in this project? Because it`s something

Biden and his new press secretary have clearly emphasized yesterday and

today.

RICH: Yes, they have emphasized it. I think that`s great. I hope they keep

to it.

I don`t think there has ever been a president of the United States who`s

not -- who`s incapable of spin. There will be times when they won`t be

completely truthful, I suspect. But I think, on the things that matter,

they have to be, and particularly things like science and our relationship

with Russia, across the board.

And they`re fortunate, in that they`re taking over from the most dishonest,

almost Stalinist propaganda machine in the history at least of modern

American government. There has been nothing like it. And I include things

like the incredible Bush WMD push and the mission accomplished. Those were

brilliant propaganda moves.

But they were pikers compared to the Trump people. And I get the sense the

Biden people want to be honest, they want to deal in facts. I`m sure they

will sway occasionally, and we have to call them out on it. But I`m hoping

that that remains the goal. And they -- and I don`t see any reason to

believe that they don`t want to fulfill it.

MELBER: All really interesting perspective, which is why we wanted to come

to you on this truly big day.

Frank Rich, nice to see you. Thank you, sir.

RICH: Good to see you, Ari. Thank you.

MELBER: Thanks, Frank.

Coming up: accountability. The FBI now arresting new key figures regarding

the Capitol insurrection.

While Democrats want to go big as Biden takes power, we have another

special guest on this first full day of a new era.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MELBER: Tonight, the FBI making new arrests in the insurrection, an ever-

widening and sometimes eclectic array of suspects.

A leader of the Proud Boys group now arrested in Florida. The feds note he

and others were -- quote -- "wearing a earpiece" or some other

communication device, suggesting a very high level of criminal conspiracy.

Also, a doctor who is part of a fringe group pushing false COVID claims

arrested. She also met with Vice President Pence in July. Today, a federal

judge also releasing a woman suspected of stealing Pelosi`s laptop. She has

been sent home to be with her mother.

House Democrats, meanwhile, asking the FBI to probe whether and how right-

wing social media apps like Parler have been involved.

The speaker gave this warning as well to any lawmakers who may have crossed

the line:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): There is no question that there were members in

this body who gave aid and comfort to those with the idea that they were

embracing a lie, a lie perpetrated by the president of the United States.

We will have an after-action review. There will be prosecution if they

aided and abetted an insurrection in which people died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: This is an ongoing and important process, one that we have reported

on and informed you will take a long time to do right.

We just showed you a little bit of the updates on the law enforcement

arrests, as well as the tricky question of what to do if -- if -- there is

evidence that supports the idea that people in the government committed any

potential crime or coordination.

There is also a reckoning for the much larger group of individuals who may

sympathize with lies, but, of course, we`re not suggesting automatically

have done any crime by virtue of their beliefs.

There are new signs today of shock, disillusionment, and even despair that

Donald Trump is not president today, because, apparently, people believed

him when he said he would be.

A Trump supporter showing up at what he thought would be a major protest at

the New York state Capitol, as you can see here, finding himself

essentially alone. Members of the fringe conspiracy group QAnon saying

online -- quote -- "It`s obvious now we have been had. No plan, no Q,

nothing."

It is a different type of reckoning, a factual one.

I`m going fit in a break.

But we have a lot more in the program, including why Senator Sanders went

viral for some very funny reasons at the inaugural, memes we think you do

need to see tonight, and what some are calling a stunning return to

normalcy of the Biden administration, and how progressives are gearing up

to do things that could help your family pocketbook.

Michael Moore is back live on THE BEAT next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Our national strategy is comprehensive. It`s based on science, not

politics. It`s based on truth, not denial, and it`s detailed.

Our goal of administering 100 million shots in our first 100 days in

office. We`re on day one. I`m committed to getting it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: President Biden speaking about his priorities in these 100 days to

kick off the administration, including dealing with the pandemic and the

economy.

I`m joined now by Oscar-winning documentary filmmaker and well-known

political activist Michael Moore. He is the host of the podcast "Rumble

with Michael Moore" and was an ardent supporter of Joe Biden once he won

the nomination.

Good to see you, sir.

MICHAEL MOORE, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Good to see you.

And thank you so much for having me on to take a look back at the Biden

years and how it went so far. It`s...

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: No.

MELBER: Are you making -- are you doing chronological humor, Michael?

MOORE: No. No.

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: But wouldn`t that be great?

I like -- I was communicating with Bill Maher last night, and I wrote to

him. I said: "Man, it`s been 12 hours and no comedy."

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: It`s just like, we`re going to have to get used to this. I`d rather

have it without the comedy, frankly. So, don`t get me wrong.

MELBER: That`s fair.

MOORE: But, no, I think that...

(CROSSTALK)

MELBER: Yes, there may be many things that have to be traded.

Let me -- Michael, let me ask it this way, though.

MOORE: Yes. Yes, yes.

MELBER: When you look at what the president just said there, and the twin

crucibles of the pandemic and the recession and so many issues you have

worked on, what`s on your mind on those policies and the challenge?

MOORE: Well, I`m going download and print out the 198-page book that he was

holding up there, the one with the blue cover.

I`m going to figure out -- I`m low on blue ink, frankly, in my printer. So,

like, that`s really going to take up most of the blue.

But I want to read -- seriously I want to read this. This is the first

thing he has do. If he succeeds at this, if he succeeds in getting

everybody vaccinated, as Dr. Fauci hoped for, as he said today, by the end

of the summer, and if we have mandated masks and social distancing -- now,

I know he says it`s only on federal properties.

But the number one employer in the United States of America is the federal

government. And when you count all federal employees, plus postal

employees, plus the military, you have got something like 25 million

people.

That`s a lot. If just that is done, if just 25 million have to wear masks,

and if you enter the federal buildings, you`re on federal property, you to

wear masks, that`s a great thing.

We will have a fighting chance to be done with this pandemic this year if

he is able to -- and I mean he really has to sort of FDR, General Patton

this thing to pull this off, because this is what New Zealand did. This is

what -- the countries that got rid of the problem for the most part, this

is how they had to handle it.

And we`re going to have to all join in together, all of us. That`s the

unity he is talking about, all of us. We want to stop the dying.

MELBER: And let me -- let me -- that`s very interesting points you make,

particularly what that muscular leadership can do.

Let me take to it another issue you care about in the context of how less

potential chaos in the federal government allows, in many tangible ways,

more focus on what people are going through. And, boy, have people been

through the ringer.

MOORE: That`s right.

MELBER: You have been advocating for different types of debt relief for

people who followed the rules, went to school, and now are going through a

pandemic, where the arguments for something fair are even stronger.

Let`s take a brief look at that for your reaction, as Biden talks up the

issue. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The pandemic has also increased the

hardship on millions of Americans who owe federal student loans.

In response, the president asks the Department of Education to extend the

pause on student loan payments and interest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: You see on one side of the screen the pause is a start.

MOORE: Yes.

MELBER: On the other, there are many both nonpartisan experts, as well as

liberals, if you want to talk politics, saying to do even more for these

individuals.

Your thoughts on all of that?

MOORE: So, you`re going to drag me into talking about politics. OK, fine.

(LAUGHTER)

MELBER: It happens.

MOORE: I have to say, I have felt so good these last 24 hours. It`s -- am I

on some pink cloud, some kind of high?

I mean, look, remember, I supported Bernie, and I traveled. A year ago this

week, I was on the road with Bernie.

MELBER: Wait. Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: And then we all got behind Joe.

MELBER: Michael, real quick.

MOORE: Yes.

MELBER: Michael.

MOORE: Yes.

MELBER: Do people who watch MSNBC know this about you? Or are you making

news? Is this a known thing?

MOORE: Well, you brought up politics, and I`m thinking, well, OK, maybe I

should just...

(LAUGHTER)

MOORE: I -- first of all, the woman who stole Nancy Pelosi`s laptop, or

allegedly stole it, what does she think is on there?

Trust me, the only thing that`s on Pelosi`s laptop is -- she`s the one that

probably started the memes on Bernie with the mittens and everything.

That`s about -- that`s all I`m going to give her on that, but...

MELBER: Well, it`s a great meme.

Let me focus you.

MOORE: It`s a -- yes.

MELBER: I`m going give you the mic back, but let me focus you.

You said it`s politics. And everything`s got to get done through a

political world. But, really, I`m asking you about people. Biden says he

cares about these people and helping student debt. I have no reason to

disbelieve him.

MOORE: Yes, I believe he does. Yes.

MELBER: And then Schumer -- and Schumer and Warren are pushing further.

But it`s about what should be done for people who, especially through no

fault of their own in this pandemic, have crippling debt.

MOORE: Nobody should be evicted. Nobody should be foreclosed on during this

time.

They should receive help from the federal government. We need to -- we have

-- we learned -- one thing we learned at the beginning of the pandemic is

that we have the money to do whatever we want to do, and we should be doing

it to help people.

And if it were me, I would forgive these student loans and get out of the

student loan business. He`s already said that he supports public colleges

being -- of tuition being free. So, let`s push toward that.

Let`s have a health care system. Everybody should be covered. We`re in a

pandemic. Announce universal health care. We will sort out how we`re going

continue it when we get through this pandemic.

But, for now, nobody should worry about going to the doctor or being in

huge trouble. I saw this one hospital chain that is suing people who have

been in the hospital for COVID? No, wrong message.

And that`s not who we are. So, yes, we should be doing all these things

right now, fighting for these things. And I honestly believe this about

Biden. You know, my parents were like him. They went to mass every morning.

And it`s something I -- of course, I never did. But people like that, I

know him. I don`t know him personally, but I know that he wants to start

his day in a place of moral fortitude, where he will live that day doing

what he believes is the right and just thing.

This is a good thing for the rest of us. And it`s why I believe that -- OK,

so let`s say he doesn`t support Medicare for all or whatever, which they

shouldn`t call it that anymore anyways. It should be called Canadian health

care or what would Jesus do health care or something like that.

But any bill that comes across his desk that`s going to help people, that`s

going to improve their wages, get them their jobs back, any of this stuff,

he`s going to sign it.

So, Schumer and Nancy need to do their job to get these things through, and

we have to eliminate the filibuster. The filibuster does not exist in any

country that calls itself a democracy. That has to stop.

It`s -- there is a vote, and the winner is 50 percent plus one. That`s a

democracy. They have to get rid of that, and they cannot let the

Republicans stop any of this.

Everything Frank Rich said, I agree. And these are seditionists. They have

a sedition caucus. They have to be brought up, and they have to answer for

what they did. But they have got to start right now by taking the head off

the snake. And that was Donald J. Trump.

He has to answer for his actions, or we will see more insurrections in the

years to come, because they will say, well, look at what happened. Nothing.

Nothing happened.

MELBER: Yes.

MOORE: Something has to happen to all the Republicans who participated in

this.

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: And I just -- I think that, if the Democrats will be strong, and if

this -- their idea of reaching across the aisle, the only reaching -- we`re

the victims of Trump, this whole -- our whole society.

The only thing that should be done is by the Republicans reaching across.

If they want unity, here is a way to have unity.

MELBER: Well, that`s a point to pause on.

MOORE: Seventeen Republicans join with the Democrats and convict Donald

Trump.

MELBER: That`s a point to pause on, Michael, because I have got to -- and I

-- and, boy, did I -- I listened.

But I have to cut in, because they`re telling me we have got other time

before we will go to Joy Reid.

MOORE: Yes.

Yes. No, no, I`m so grateful you had me on here on this first day-and-a-

half.

MELBER: It`s a big day.

MOORE: It`s a big day. And it`s a great moment for all of us.

And let`s build on it. Build back better.

MELBER: Yes.

And it`s interesting hearing you both speaking to what you see as the moral

fiber of President Biden, who you supported, as well, as you put it, unity

with strength, which is being open to unity, but if you know you`re right,

telling people to come join you, if you have the votes to back it up.

Michael Moore, we will be seeing you again. Thanks for being here today.

MOORE: Thank you. Thanks so much, Ari.

MELBER: We heard Michael mention -- thank you.

We heard Michael mention how Bernie Sanders and the mittens went viral.

This is one you got to see to believe. We have that and another important

political update coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MELBER: Now it`s time. It is time.

Let`s talk about it, Bernie Sanders absolutely breaking the Internet with

his drip, his inauguration chic, his fashion look.

Now, here`s how it started. Sanders was spotted at the inauguration rocking

these very understandably cozy mittens -- it`s cold -- and a big winter

coat. And he was just hanging out, beautiful mittens, sitting there amidst

a sea of dark suits.

So, while many people would go unnoticed, something about this and the

whole physical distancing made people take notice and even made the rounds

on late night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLBERT: The Vermont is strong with this one, in a parka and giant woolen

mittens.

But notice the one part of his body that`s not covered? Bernie, what are

you thinking? Don`t you know that 99 percent of your body heat escapes out

the top 1 percent?

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": It looks like he`s about to scatter

bread at a bunch of pigeons at the park.

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": He showed up holding a manila

envelope, as if he had an appointment at the DMV.

Sadly, Senator Sanders had to duck out early when his neighbor Larry called

to say he found his hat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

MELBER: All right, I don`t always see these in advance. Some of the things,

I look at in advance. But that`s really funny.

Now, the picture of Sanders just sitting there -- I mean, really. I get it.

He was minding his own. But it took off online. Everyone`s been having fun

with it.

And because the Internet`s creative, people went to town, reimagining

Bernie in different situations, first channeling how some feel when office

meetings could have literally been an e-mail. Now, that`s just the

straight-up picture.

Then, someone poked fun at Bernie`s busy schedule, joking that Joe`s

inauguration was a stop on his way to the post office with, of course, that

envelope.

And then people took it farther, Bernie in the iconic photograph of lunch

atop a skyscraper. You see him there. He`s warm enough. He`s chilling.

Bernie hitting the road with Guy Fieri. "Not me. Us."

Maybe, if you like to get a little more religious, Bernie with a fellow Jew

at the Last Supper.

Or -- it had to happen -- Bernie all the way out in space. "One small meme

for man, one giant leap for memekind." We love a good pun around here.

Or, if you`re more GOT, he stopped right into Winterfell. "Undefeated."

What might be one of our favorites here at THE BEAT, Bernie as Patrick

Swayze in "Ghost" making pottery with Demi.

So, what does Bernie Sanders think about all this hubbub?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): In Vermont, we dress warm. We know something

about the cold. And we`re not so concerned about good fashion. We want to

keep warm.

And that`s what I did today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: Not so concerned with good fashion.

I mean, the jokes write themselves, because the late-night -- the late-

night satire of this is literally what Senator Sanders said. He is nothing

if not on brand.

There were more memes that we even had time to show you tonight, so you can

always find us online @AriMelber across social media. We will be sharing

more of our favorites, including a bar mitzvah one.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FALLON: ... you just lost 280 pounds?

(LAUGHTER)

COLBERT: Today felt like a return to normalcy.

KIMMEL: I don`t know about America yet, but I feel great again.

FALLON: It feels like the country is back.

Sure, the GPS took us on some crazy backroads for the last four years, but

now we`re back on Main Street. And we can tell people we were lost.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MELBER: Tonight, the comics get the last word.

As always, thanks for spending time with us here on THE BEAT WITH ARI

MELBER. I will see you tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. Eastern.

"THE REIDOUT WITH JOY REID" starts now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY

BE UPDATED.

END

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